Fussbot: abegi!

Shldn't an ATTACKING midfielder able to play wide?av said it b4,let nasri,cazorla etc wait till dey get chance to play where dey are best at,if they wont rust in bench...

Good observation, but it is also one-sided.
Shouldn't a striker be able to compete with his fellow striker for a crack as the target man? We have 4 strikers @ OT & there is space for just one to start, maybe Rooney should concentrate on fighting it out with Hernandez & van Persie too or what do you think?

dademola: So rooney is being blamed for d team's lack of creativity cos he plays in d hole despite d fact dt on dis same thread, we all complain about our virtually non-existent wing play/ poor form of our wingers. Nawa o

the way you argue backwards amazes me. the lack of creativity can be blamed on rooney.

when rooney gets the ball, he plays a crossfield pass to the flanks where we all know our wingers are having a poor form lately. the crosses have been horrible & when they manage to put in a decent cross, there's no striker there to connect with the ball. we have only been attacking teams via one route & that's not good enough. this is why scoring from open play in the league evades us.


how come rooney can't play through the middle for once? 34 long passes and only 4 through passes suggest rooney is not suited to play in the hole. the reverse should be the case, it should be 34 through passes & 4 long balls. only carrick & fellaini and perhaps de gea should be playing long passes as many as rooney has done in his last 5 games.

^^ Or maybe the forwards just aren't making the runs into the right positions?

Or do you expect Rooney to be playing through passes into areas strikers aren't making runs into?

That's where statistics can give a wrong impression - you need to observe where Rooney is where he receives the ball and where strikers are before you can say he's making the right/wrong number of through passes.

Why is Moyes reluctant to play Rooney at CF and put Kagawa in the hole behind him? I'm sure Rooney would've done much better at CF that what we saw from little pea on Saturday.

Fussbot: abegi!

Shldn't an ATTACKING midfielder able to play wide?av said it b4,let nasri,cazorla etc wait till dey get chance to play where dey are best at,if they wont rust in bench...

Word. . . .even Ozil was shifted wide in Arsenal's game yesterday, and he delivered. In the current EPL squads if you want to feature you have to be highly adaptable - only complete specialists like CFs or GKs can hold on stringently to just one role - even GKs are being turned into sweepers or distributors in addition to their primary roles.

Rooney s not the only culprit...it wouldn't be fair to single him out for our creative deficiencies recently.
With the formation we play, the lack of creativity should be heaped on the player that plays in the hole and the wingers first and foremost.
Rooney can't take the blame alone...the 3 behind our main striker should be accountable. Our wing play has been non existence since God knows when...it's embarrassing.

debosky:

Word. . . .even Ozil was shifted wide in Arsenal's game yesterday, and he delivered. In the current EPL squads if you want to feature you have to be highly adaptable - only complete specialists like CFs or GKs can hold on stringently to just one role - even GKs are being turned into sweepers or distributors in addition to their primary roles.

No one is saying otherwise...we are talking about effectiveness here...
Kagawa can do a job on the left, he has done it before - but he will be more effective(team-wise) if he gets a run in his primary role.

debosky: ^^ Or maybe the forwards just aren't making the runs into the right positions?

all of a sudden, hernandez that doesn't stop running isn't making the runs into the right position. do you even watch united games at all?

or do you expect Rooney to be playing through passes into areas strikers aren't making runs into?

hernandez is the most mobile player in the premier league. rooney is the culprit. he's a number 10 & yet he doesn't have the skill to take on his markers & shake them off. his tactic is to drop deep near carrick, receive the ball and lay it to the flanks. the wingers are having an iffy form, we must try other routes to attack opponents. the wing route isn't working & rooney isn't good enough in that role.

That's where statistics can give a wrong impression - you need to observe where Rooney is where he receives the ball and where strikers are before you can say he's making the right/wrong number of through passes.

it's too early to start going to opta - i thought 34 long passes & a miserable 4 through passes from a trequartista is a disgrace. özil had as many as that number of through passes on his debut alone.

Why is Moyes reluctant to play Rooney at CF and put Kagawa in the hole behind him? I'm sure Rooney would've done much better at CF that what we saw from little pea on Saturday.

rooney at CF is not clinical enough - who would trust rooney to lead a strike force? he's bereft of intelligence to even operate effectively in that role. rooney attempts shots on target when it's clear there are defenders throwing legs & backsides to block the shots!

the intelligence to dummy a shot is beyond rooney.

the lack of through passes is not the most troubling stat. there have to be good runs and space to play the ball through anyway. the worrying thing is the large amount of longballs. what that shows is that Rooney is not able to receive, retain and pass the ball higher up the pitch. so he is coming deeper, and not only that but for all his vaunted pace and power rather than carry the ball forward and run at the opposition or interchange passes to open up spaces. he instead elects to punt the ball long to either an isolated forward or our terrible wingers.

we need someone in the hole who can remain relatively higher up the pitch for most of the game and be effective. if rvp isn't it fully ready, put Rooney up top afterall he is consistently hitting the bacj of the net. then play kagawa or welbeck behind him.

montelik: the lack of through passes is not the most troubling stat. there have to be good runs and space to play the ball through anyway. the worrying thing is the large amount of longballs. what that shows is that Rooney is not able to receive, retain and pass the ball higher up the pitch. so he is coming deeper, and not only that but for all his vaunted pace and power rather than carry the ball forward and run at the opposition or interchange passes to open up spaces. he instead elects to punt the ball long to either an isolated forward or our terrible wingers.

we need someone in the hole who can remain relatively higher up the pitch for most of the game and be effective. if rvp isn't it fully ready, put Rooney up top afterall he is consistently hitting the bacj of the net. then play kagawa or welbeck behind him.

hitting the back of the net consistently from set plays is different from hitting it from open play. put rooney up top & you have just compounded the problem. does rooney even stay in the box? he's out there playing tip-tap with carrick & cleverley.

Fussbot: abegi!

Shldn't an ATTACKING midfielder able to play wide?av said it b4,let nasri,cazorla etc wait till dey get chance to play where dey are best at,if they wont rust in bench...

Word. . . .even Ozil was shifted wide in Arsenal's game yesterday, and he delivered. In the current EPL squads if you want to feature you have to be highly adaptable - only complete specialists like CFs or GKs can hold on stringently to just one role - even GKs are being turned into sweepers or distributors in addition to their primary roles.

StarBoard:
Rafa's problem was not incompetence but the fact that he had embittered the Chelsea fans by comments he made earlier on.
He was competent and salvaged their season with a third place finish and the Europa League title.
They beat us twice under his watch, and he got performances out of almost every player on their books. Put the old guard on notice that an automatic shirt thing was a myth.
I dare say he was better suited to Chelsea than the present-day Mourinho.
Moyes is the exact opposite.
No track record, shambolic transfer dealing, wired tactics/line-ups/substitutions, moronic press comments and daft lackeys as a back room staff.
The Chelsea people actually didn't know what they were losing.
We know we have an absolute neophyte as boss.
He cannot sacrifice Rooney for the good of the team and is already dancing to his tune and courting his attention by making him captain unnecessarily. A$$ kissing so early in the season to an over-rated player.
Instead he's shafting Kagawa to the left when its obvious we won't get he best out of him from that position. Rooney who could be suited to playing there cannot be talked into it because he (Moyes) has no spine.
Sigh

That na total rubbish oga mi. You mean the same Rafa that was jobless for several years. We helped him improve his CV - and that was what he precisely came to do. upgrade his CV.
The ONLY worthwhile thing he did was to win the Europa cup and yeah, it felt good.

debosky:

Word. . . .even Ozil was shifted wide in Arsenal's game yesterday, and he delivered. In the current EPL squads if you want to feature you have to be highly adaptable - only complete specialists like CFs or GKs can hold on stringently to just one role - even GKs are being turned into sweepers or distributors in addition to their primary roles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Dg3Kdh_rtI

watch this clip & tell me why kagawa should be the one making way for rooney? if rooney was doing a good job in the hole then I can understand - but he's not delivering playing in the hole.

ozil was played wide cos he can do a job there without necessarily dumbing down arsenal's quality in the final third. we have a gifted player such as kagawa & a fat scouser won't even let him get a decent run of games where he's most effective....

ridiculous!!!

Fussbot: abegi!

Shldn't an ATTACKING midfielder able to play wide?av said it b4,let nasri,cazorla etc wait till dey get chance to play where dey are best at,if they wont rust in bench...

Not entirely.
I doubt if Cazorla plays wide. The Santi I know thrives on the free role behind the front one or two as the case may be.
That an attacking midfielder plays the wide role isn't a pre-requisite for all attacking midfielders to play wide.

By the way, what happened to Paul Scholes when Sven Goran Erikkson and Kevin Keegan thought him best to play wide left in favour of the over-rated and unworkable Gerrard-Lampard combo?
Was he successful or not?

coogar:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Dg3Kdh_rtI

watch this clip & tell me why kagawa should be the one making way for rooney? if rooney was doing a good job in the hole then I can understand - but he's not delivering playing in the hole.

ozil was played wide cos he can do a job there without necessarily dumbing down arsenal's quality in the final third. we have a gifted player such as kagawa & a fat scouser won't even let him get a decent run of games where he's most effective....

ridiculous!!!

Just said that as I was replying to someone else on this matter.

Why wasn't Jay Jay Okocha played wide all through his career?

So now we're judging based on youtube clips? Really?

From season before last no less?

If Kagawa is a luxury player that can only function if played centrally, then he isn't really ready for the EPL. There are virtually no players that enjoy that luxury these days.

I'm not saying he shouldn't be played centrally, but he has to adapt and be able to perform elsewhere.

Rooney can't be benched for Kagawa at the moment, he appears to be the only player working hard and delivering in the final third so Moyes who is on shaky ground might be committing suicide if it backfires.

That's why he should've played Rooney at CF and Kagawa in the 10 position at home against West Brom.

FBS:
That na total rubbish oga mi. You mean the same Rafa that was jobless for several years. We helped him improve his CV - and that was what he precisely came to do. upgrade his CV.
The ONLY worthwhile thing he did was to win the Europa cup and yeah, it felt good.

In hindsight, to be fair, most of us were wrong on Benitez, myself inclusive.

He won you the Europa league in less than a season and salvaged automatic CL qualification.
I'm sure he did well with you guys.
You guys played well under him, never mind the losses.
You beat us twice as well within the same period.

SailorXY:
You guys are missing the issue still
Since Kagawa is "not strong enough to withstand bully & losses the ball as a result" why can't he play just behind the striker where even if he gets bullied of the ball, there are still @ least 8 players behind him to retrieve the ball as compared to the wings where the assult is directly against the full back behind?

instead of u to talk more on kagawa improving on his physical condition, u say we shud put him in d hole where he wld be at liberty to lose balls. I tot d issue is about our creativity, and not on d pressure kagawa puts on our fullbacks

debosky: So now we're judging based on youtube clips? Really? From season before last no less?

what else should we use to convince you? stats are meaningless to you & video clips are also meaningless? why did united sign kagawa anyways? because a fairy came down to convince fergie?

If Kagawa is a luxury player that can only function if played centrally, then he isn't really ready for the EPL. There are virtually no players that enjoy that luxury these days.

looking at his ability alone, the team should be built around him. he's one of the most gifted players in that role. he even did a better job in that role than özil at dortmund. kagawa was the reason dortmund won 2 championships on a spin.

I'm not saying he shouldn't be played centrally, but he has to adapt and be able to perform elsewhere.

what does a gooner know about intelligent players? there's a reason you guys have not won a pin in almost a decade. why should kagawa adapt elsewhere - why not put xavi on the left flank and ask him to adapt!!!

Rooney can't be benched for Kagawa at the moment, he appears to be the only player working hard and delivering in the final third so Moyes who is on shaky ground might be committing suicide if it backfires.

what has rooney delivered in the final third? a player has made just 4 through-passes in 5 games and you give him credits for working hard....are you kidding me? ozil had as many as that in the first half of his debut game for arsenal.

That's why he should've played Rooney at CF and Kagawa in the 10 position at home against West Brom.

rooney can't lead a strike force and unfortunately, we now have a better player that can play in the hole than rooney. if rooney isn't english, he won't be anywhere near the first team.

does rooney even stay in the box? he would go deep to fetch the ball thus isolating his front man. when he plays as a CF, he's not in the box when the wingers put in delicious crosses begging to be hit.

debosky:

If Kagawa is a luxury player that can only function if played centrally, then he isn't really ready for the EPL. There are virtually no players that enjoy that luxury these days.

Funny.
I might need an education on this matter.
Ask me how many times Lampard has played wide for club and country, abi na only me dey see am so?
Or your beloved Fabregas.
I might be missing something here but I do not remember them playing wide.

debosky:

Rooney can't be benched for Kagawa at the moment, he appears to be the only player working hard and delivering in the final third so Moyes who is on shaky ground might be committing suicide if it backfires.

I find that statement odd.
Rooney has been so effective in that role that we haven't scored from open play since the opening day.

coogar:

the way you argue backwards amazes me. the lack of creativity can be blamed on rooney.

when rooney gets the ball, he plays a crossfield pass to the flanks where we all know our wingers are having a poor form lately. the crosses have been horrible & when they manage to put in a decent cross, there's no striker there to connect with the ball. we have only been attacking teams via one route & that's not good enough. this is why scoring from open play in the league evades us.


how come rooney can't play through the middle for once? 34 long passes and only 4 through passes suggest rooney is not suited to play in the hole. the reverse should be the case, it should be 34 through passes & 4 long balls. only carrick & fellaini and perhaps de gea should be playing long passes as many as rooney has done in his last 5 games.

is it rooney's fault dt our wingers are in poor form? Over d years,We all knw our wingers play a major role in our attacks.over these years, rooney has excelled in d postion as a 2nd striker, doing wat he knws hw to do best. So because our wingers are now in a horribly poor form, u den decide to lay d blame at rooney's doorstep for not supplying "though passes" to d strikers. Nawa for u oo.

dademola: is it rooney's fault dt our wingers are in poor form? Over d years,We all knw our wingers play a major role in our attacks.over these years, rooney has excelled in d postion as a 2nd striker, doing wat he knws hw to do best. So because our wingers are now in a horribly poor form, u den decide to lay d blame at rooney's doorstep for not supplying "though passes" to d strikers. Nawa for u oo.

that's exactly the point....
if the wingers are poor, why is rooney still adamant to spread the play to the flanks? shouldn't rooney be looking at creating chances through the middle?

rooney can't pass or dribble. his intelligence in the final third is nothing to write home about. nani played rooney in with a fantastic pass against west brom.....instead of rooney to waltz in & shoot, he was still looking to pass to a player outside the box.

rooney's 1-2 ball is the worst in the whole northern hemisphere. he only completes 2% of his 1-2 passes. if rooney wasn't born in this country, he would have been sold aeons ago. fergie knew rooney is limited as an interiore and that was why he got kagawa.

moyes, the media and the fact that it's a world cup year is the reason rooney won't be dropped anytime soon but the fans who don't know are using his stats to back him up.

as long as rooney scores a hatrick every game, it does not matter even if the team as a whole concedes 6 goals each in those games. if rooney's stats are not winning matches for us, then his stats are meaningless.

StarBoard:

Funny.
I might need an education on this matter.
Ask me how many times Lampard has played wide for club and country, abi na only me dey see am so?
Or your beloved Fabregas.
I might be missing something here but I do not remember them playing wide.


I find that statement odd.
Rooney has been so effective in that role that we haven't scored from open play since the opening day.

wot we r saying is dt; in modern day football, as a trequartista, u cant say u r only stereotyped to play in d hole, and nowhere else! Ofcourse playrs hav der prefered positions, bt if u look around, d matas, iniestas, carzolas and silvas hav all done decent jobs as inverted wingers.

dademola: wot we r saying is dt; in modern day football, as a trequartista, u cant say u r only stereotyped to play in d hole, and nowhere else! Ofcourse playrs hav der prefered positions, bt if u look around, d matas, iniestas, carzolas and silvas hav all done decent jobs as inverted wingers.

when mata, iniesta, cazorla & silva are doing jobs as an inverted wingers, there's an equally productive player doing a good job as the trequartista. iniesta has xavi, cazorla has ozil, silva has aguero. united have rooney but his pass accuracy is 74%.

74%??

coogar:

that's exactly the point....
if the wingers are poor, why is rooney still adamant to spread the play to the flanks? shouldn't rooney be looking at creating chances through the middle?

rooney can't pass or dribble. his intelligence in the final third is nothing to write home about. nani played rooney in with a fantastic pass against west brom.....instead of rooney to waltz in & shoot, he was still looking to pass to a player outside the box.

rooney's 1-2 ball is the worst in the whole northern hemisphere. he only completes 2% of his 1-2 passes. if rooney wasn't born in this country, he would have been sold aeons ago. fergie knew rooney is limited as an interiore and that was why he got kagawa.

moyes, the media and the fact that it's a world cup year is the reason rooney won't be dropped anytime soon but the fans who don't know are using his stats to back him up.

as long as rooney scores a hatrick every game, it does not matter even if the team as a whole concedes 6 goals each in those games. if rooney's stats are not winning matches for us, then his stats are meaningless.

Anderson would school Rooney on 1-2 passes.

coogar:

that's exactly the point....
if the wingers are poor, why is rooney still adamant to spread the play to the flanks? shouldn't rooney be looking at creating chances through the middle?

rooney can't pass or dribble. his intelligence in the final third is nothing to write home about. nani played rooney in with a fantastic pass against west brom.....instead of rooney to waltz in & shoot, he was still looking to pass to a player outside the box.

rooney's 1-2 ball is the worst in the whole northern hemisphere. he only completes 2% of his 1-2 passes. if rooney wasn't born in this country, he would have been sold aeons ago. fergie knew rooney is limited as an interiore and that was why he got kagawa.

moyes, the media and the fact that it's a world cup year is the reason rooney won't be dropped anytime soon but the fans who don't know are using his stats to back him up.

as long as rooney scores a hatrick every game, it does not matter even if the team as a whole concedes 6 goals each in those games. if rooney's stats are not winning matches for us, then his stats are meaningless.

u may hav some valid points, buh we all knw rooney has neva been d "throughball specialist". Castigating him for this, just because our wingers and fowards are in poor form, is just unfair.

coogar:

when mata, iniesta, cazorla & silva are doing jobs as an inverted wingers, there's an equally productive player doing a good job as the trequartista. iniesta has xavi, cazorla has ozil, silva has aguero. united have rooney but his pass accuracy is 74%.

74%??

wayne rooney isnt, and wld neva be a trequartista. R u telling me dt david silva only functions well as an inverted winger wen aguero plays? Or are u telling me dt wen carzola was putting up decent performances as an inverted winger last season, ozil was an arsenal player? Wot of mata? Didnt ozil function well on d wing for madrid in certain games?(even in a classico sef). Stop blaming rooney!! Rather,tell kagawa to improve! Simple!

oh boy see gang up on Rooney
The one thing we know is that if one feeds either RVP or Chicharito with quality chances they will score goals galore.....thats a given.
So the blame lies with the 3 behind the striker whose primary function is to prove creativity......the man in the hole and the wingers.

However i would lay the blame FIRST on the wingers who have been so dire and diabolically poor al season long and even going back to last season.
After them though Wayne Rooney has to accept a large portion of the blame too cos those stats show that he is drifting way too deep and not performing his primary function which is to PLAY IN THE HOLE and link up play with the strikers and wingers PREFERABLY IN SHORT INTERCHANGES.

lets compare his stats with someone that excels in that position Ozil

Wayne Rooney has tried 35 long balls and only 4 through balls, Ozil has played fewer minutes obviously and has played just 8 long balls but same number of through balls as Rooney 4.

David Silva has 9 long ball and 8 through ball attempts and Aguero has 3 long ball and 2 through ball attempts

Rooney is giving a lot of effort but he is not applying it in the best way to play in the hole .TOO MANY LONG BALLS AND TOO FEW THROUGH BALLS.
Having said all this our incompetent wingers are culprits no 1 then rooney for our lack of creativity up front

I just hope moyes will have the ball to play kagawa in the hole so we can put all this agitation to rest, kagawa has played in the hole for united and did nothing special to claim that spot as his own. We seem to be confusing what he did at dortmund with what he is doing at united presently, he has played from the left side of the midfield for dortmund and did reasonably well, why can'T he do same for us. Rooney might not be the solution to our no 10 problem but he sure can do a better job than kagawa in that role. Kagawa has to raise his game if he wants to claim that spot.

.

dademola: u may hav some valid points, buh we all knw rooney has neva been d "throughball specialist". Castigating him for this, just because our wingers and fowards are in poor form, is just unfair.

if rooney isn't a through-ball specialist, what in the name of zeus is he doing in the hole?

dademola: wayne rooney isnt, and wld neva be a trequartista. R u telling me dt david silva only functions well as an inverted winger wen aguero plays?

city have always had technically gifted players. in the absence of aguero, there's tevez & nasri to fill in the gap. they are better at passing in the final third than rooney can ever be.

Or are u telling me dt wen carzola was putting up decent performances as an inverted winger last season, ozil was an arsenal player?

before ozil arrived, arsenal had wilshere & rosicky. they might not have the goal scoring prowess of wayne rooney but they move the ball better than any team in the premier league. wenger's team can never be criticised for not having good passers of the ball.

Wot of mata? Didnt ozil function well on d wing for madrid in certain games?(even in a classico sef). Stop blaming rooney!! Rather,tell kagawa to improve! Simple!

mata has oscar & hazard. highly technical players abound at chelsea. we even blame them for having too many of them. united do not have too many so it's not even logical to be playing the most gifted trequartista we have got out of position to accommodate rooney.

we havnt scored frm open play ever since we beat swansea 1-4. On dt dai, welbeck played in d hole behind rvp and we won! Y arent pple clamouring for welbeck to get d "hole" spot den, since he played der dt dai and we scored 4 goals?

dademola: we havnt scored frm open play ever since we beat swansea 1-4. On dt dai, welbeck played in d hole behind rvp and we won! Y arent u pple clamouring for welbeck to get d "hole" spot den?

the difference is van persie started in that game. the last 2 league games we have lost, RVP did not start.

against swansea, evra provided delicious crosses. we took our chances when it mattered the most and welbeck made telling contributions by scoring and recovering the ball when we lost possession.

rooney isn't doing anything defensively & his offensive contribution is too light. we always have to wait for a corner or freekick to score goals and yet the man(shinji) with the masterkey that unlock defences has only played 45 mins out of 540 league minutes.

we deserve the misery we are getting....