SailorXY:
Are you trying to sound funny?
Kagawa's downside of not being strong on the ball is where you pin your point always, yet the 'strong on the ball' Rooney can't do any better shielding the ball & laying off for a striker to latch unto...
Every man cannot be Hulk Hogan...
The recent two past games, how was the tactics?
Kagawa starts behind the striker & the formation is purely 4-4-2 just about 20mins into the game, the supposed left attacking midfielder becomes the second striker & the supposed 'hole' man turns to a wide left midfielder
You see a supposed 'hole' guy receiving the ball from de Gea & Vidic cuz the CM *Cleverley* likes to hide behind an opponent & will never make himself available for it
Una get brain na, unless no be the same games we dey watch tho

They said he was in the "hole" vs Everton.
I thought I was the only one who noticed he started operating from the left.
Even at that, he created a chance Rooney and Welbeck conspired to miss. And then he was hauled off, and elampiro is justified that Kagawa is indomie.

Player tracking data shows that there
are fewer runs being made into the box
too. United's midfield is an obvious
weakness but any side with Wayne
Rooney, Van Persie and Shinji Kagawa
should be more fluent. At the other end,
United are blocking fewer shots (21.8%
this season compared with 29.9% in
2012-13), suggesting opponents are
having more attacks and shots on the
break.

United are finding it harder to break
down teams. Already this season they
have been behind in league matches for
a total of 358 minutes. In 2012-13 it was
416 minutes across 38 games. Losing a
goal was usually a signal for Ferguson's
sides to unleash sound and fury; too
often Moyes's United have gone mute.

StarBoard:
He played against Everton too, didn't he?

Yes he did, but surely you recognise that there was far more goalmouth action in that game than there was against Newcastle? The Everton game was a tight one - if one or two of those shots that hit the frame of the goal went in, then the result would likely have been different.

Against Newcastle the attacking display was abysmal to the extent that Krul was on holiday for most of the 90 minutes. There was never a period where you felt United scoring was inevitable, not even after they went behind.

debosky:

Yes he did, but surely you recognise that there was far more goalmouth action in that game than there was against Newcastle? The Everton game was a tight one - if one or two of those shots that hit the frame of the goal went in, then the result would likely have been different.

Against Newcastle the attacking display was abysmal to the extent that Krul was on holiday for most of the 90 minutes. There was never a period where you felt United scoring was inevitable, not even after they went behind.

True, but then we still lost.
If the result were different, I would take that effort to mean something.
He missed a tap in at nil-all. Remember that too.

RuuDie: For me, first step towards "recovery" - by this i mean playing in a bit better fashion than we have so far - is getting Rooney out wide to that left wing, by hook or by crook!

The number of times we shift the ball to the right at every given opportunity is becoming an eyesore... expecially given that it is usually AV25 that is there.

Anyhow sha... I still refuse not to BELIEVE!

That is not going to happen, not under Moyes.
You want elampiro to shoot you?

elampiro:

It is you who said this, for the second time now.


However, when some guys here were blaming his work rate and said we can't get 3 points unless RVP is involved, you were silent. Now I know where your allegiance lies. Now RVP returned and we lacked creativity and work rate. Had Rooney played it would have been pages upon pages how he was either too far or too close to RVP, how he doesn't have the brain for the hole, how he didn't make the perfect pass for RVP. I have said the two strikers need each other.

Lamentation.
Answer the question...we lost because Rooney didn't play?

afrodoc: i would take strootman and ander herrera in january

Add Gokhan Inler to that list

Manchester United v Newcastle Match Report – Most Complete Tactics, Stats and Analysis

22 hours ago by Tom Davidson

Manchester United 0 Newcastle United 1


FORMATION

Alan Pardew changed both the team and the formation for the game. Shola Ameobi, who is likely to feel the strain of midweek matches considering his poor fitness, was dropped to the bench with Vurnon Anita taking his place, slotting into a three man midfield.

Newcastle set up in 4-2-3-1 but Yohan Cabaye – playing a sort of Number 10 role – wasn’t afraid to drop deeper and get involved in defensive grunt work. Both he, Yoan Gouffran and Moussa Sissoko were going to have to work hard to support Loic Remy, playing as a lone striker for the first time in a black and white shirt.

David Moyes on the other hand made a string of changes. There was no place in the squad for either of Marouane Fellaini and Shinji Kagawa. Since the match it has been revealed the latter of which suffered a stomach problem whereas Fellaini has just not measured up to his price tag in Manchester yet.

In the centre of Man U’s maligned midfield was Phil Jones and Tom Cleverly with Adnan Januzaj on the right wing and Luis Nani on the left. Up front Robin Van Persie was (allegedly) fit again partnering Javier Hernandez up front. Although Moyes may have made a several changes, he was happy to stick with 4-4-2.

CHANGE OF GAME PLAN FOR NEWCASTLE

Against Swansea, Newcastle had attempted to play on the counter attack and appeared happy enough to cede possession to their opponents in the hope of catching them over committing. With Anita introduced in the midfield it was obvious that wasn’t to be the plan against Manchester United.

From the first whistle the team kept the ball well and out passed Man U, looking confident on the ball, playing with the sort of arrogance teams could only dream of when playing at Old Trafford with Sir Alex Ferguson in charge.

eick Tiote, whose form has been at the very heart of Newcastle’s terrific run of results, stamped his authority on the game from the off, making tackles, interceptions and generally breaking up Man U’s play with ease.

A powerhouse performance from the Ivorian whose passes often encourage the full backs to get forward

In the 24th minute Tiote made an interception (all game he made four) high up the pitch and passed it to Cabaye (the pair passed to each other in total 31 times all game) but the Frenchman hooked his shot wide. It was a perfect example both of Tiote’s combativeness and Cabaye’s being allowed to play further forward.

The three midfielders had a different role which they each performed well. Tiote was the destroyer (five tackles, the highest in the game), Anita was the recycler (49 passes at 86% completion) who seldom broke forward and Cabaye was the creator (three shots and one key pass) who also provided an outlet to hold up the ball on the floor, rather than just aerially with long balls – something Newcastle struggled to do last season when without Ameobi.

In the first 20 minutes Newcastle shaded possession 53-47% and looked comfortable. Not only that but early on in the game Sissoko, playing in a very advanced role, showed how dangerous he can be beating two men and almost scoring an early goal. As it was Sissoko played well all game, making four dribbles, three key passes and forcing five turnovers.

POOR FIRST HALF

In truth it was a poor first half of football with the two best chances of note both falling to Mathieu Debuchy at the end. In the first he caught his compatriot Patrice Evra napping and stole in for a thunderous shot on goal to be fisted away by David De Gea. The second was an attacking header comfortably saved by the Spaniard.

But the fact Debuchy was able to push up so high and help in attack proved just how dominant Newcastle were in controlling possession and the tempo of play. With Van Persie dropping off the attack to try and help out his outnumbered midfield he wasn’t where he needed to be – on the sharp end of attacks. Perhaps the most shocking statistic of the game was evident at the end: Van Persie didn’t manage a single shot all game either on or off target. Manchester United fans will point to his lack of match fitness as the underlying issues but the defensive orders given to him by Moyes certainly blunted the Dutchman’s threat.

Back to the Newcastle full backs. Earlier in the season they were derided for pushing up too often and getting caught out. They’re several games wiser and the pair are now some of the most reliable in the league. They were both helped by the knowledge that Anita was staying back and Gouffran and Sissoko could put covering runs in but the fact Debuchy managed more touches in the opposition half than his own is staggering, especially away from home. This also points to a weakness of Man U.

HALF TIME

Although the first half may have been poor, Newcastle were still able to showcase dominance in almost all areas of the field. Possession was edged by the Magpies and they also completed 85% of their passes compared to United’s 77%. Newcastle had won 71% of the aerial battles and their only flaw was giving away fouls (eight in total in the first half).

Perhaps more telling was that Hernandez only managed 11 touches in the first half. This is all well and good if you’re a poacher but Hernandez didn’t manage a single shot in the first half.  With Newcastle’s midfield so dominant you might have expected a change from Moyes at half time but he decided against it. He didn’t have the options off the bench he would have liked, the only central midfielder being Anderson who has struggled for form and fitness his entire Manchester United career.

On Saturday Manchester United were boxing with one hand tied behind their back. While Januzaj and Rafael played well on the right (42% of their attacks came down the right and 25% of their shots), Evra and Nani offered much less going forward and Debuchy and Sissoko got on top of them.

One of the most dangerous strikers in the league was reduced to playing in midfield

This dependency on attacking mostly down the right hand side, or at least having the most joy there to begin with, meant it was easy for Tiote to know which side he had to cover. As it turned out Januzaj was a ball of tricks and early on one of Manchester United’s most dangerous players. Newcastle had to resort to the most medieval way of stopping him – fouls. By the end of the game Januzaj had been fouled five times, the most for anyone on the pitch with Anita guilty of a cynical foul on the hot prospect more than once (Anita gave away four fouls all game).

Perhaps the biggest proof that Debuchy won the battle of the French full backs was that while both had a similar defensive display (Five tackles each, Debuchy made four interceptions to Evra’s three), Debuchy was able to produce two good shots on targets, draw two fouls and win 75% of his aerial battles. Evra on the other hand only managed to win 29%.

MEDIOCRE MIDFIELD

Cleverly and Jones were overwhelmed on Saturday and chasing shadows for much of the game defensively and unable to provide any real service to the strikers going forward.

When Cleverly was taken off in the 69th minute he had racked up a relatively impressive 55 touches but it’s a struggle to point out any real influence he had in the game. It is obvious the midfielder is shorn of confidence and his display was another example of why Man U so desperately need a dynamic attacking force in the centre of midfield. Cleverly managed just one key pass and two shots (both of which were off target). Cleverly could well have a future at Manchester United, in a similar role to Anita for Newcastle, but with the pressure of being the creative hub for one of the biggest teams in Europe, he’s currently struggling.

His midfield partner Jones showed a great deal of tenacity in defence, making three tackles and winning 100% of his aerial battles but he looked lost, unsure of when to break forward and when to stay back. One time he did go forward Cleverly failed in picking up Cabaye who drifted into the box unmarked and slotted past De Gea, albeit via a Vidic deflection. Where did Newcastle’s attack come from? Down the Manchester United left of course.

SUBSTITUTIONS

10 minutes into the second half and Manchester United had their best spell of the game. In the 52nd minute Van Persie came deep and played possibly the pass of the day all of 50 yards to the feet of Hernandez, who shot at the feet of Krul. Minutes later Januzaj shot and was comfortably saved by Krul.

In the 55th minute a corner was headed by Evra onto the post and onto the hand of Anita, who was placed on the post probably because of his diminutive stature challenging for aerial balls. It could have been a penalty but seeing how the Magpies should have got one against Swansea it was perhaps justice Manchester United didn’t get one.

Pardew could see Man United were growing into the game and wanted to offer more of a direct threat. Off came Yoan Gouffran who, while not having a poor game, struggled to support Remy. When he was taken off in the 57th minute he had managed only 28 touches. Hatem Ben Arfa came on and, while not putting in a defensive shift like Gouffran, looked confident and comfortable in the team. In his 30 minute performance he managed 35 touches (even if 10 of these were in the corner as the clock wound down) won two fouls, completed two dribbles and turned the ball over twice.

Shortly after his introduction a long ball from Krul bounced off the head of Evra to Sissoko and he stormed down the right. With Remy occupying the two central defenders Cabaye ghosted into the 18 yard box and slotted the ball away coolly. It was no more than Newcastle deserved.

Less than 10 minutes later Moyes knew he needed to change the flow of the game. Off came Nani – who flattered to deceive once more with a huge five dribbles but only managing to make one key pass and not a single shot. His end product was not good enough.

In his place was youngster Wilfried Zaha, making his first Premier League appearance He offered more defensively (five tackles in 20 minutes is staggering) than he would have wanted and didn’t manage a shot on target or a key pass.

Shortly afterward Anderson came on for Cleverly but didn’t convince. The Brazilian proved to be stronger in the tackle but he was still dispossessed twice and spent the lion’s share of his time on the pitch helping Evra deal with Ben Arfa.

Moyes’ last throw of the dice was to introduce Antonio Valencia for Rafael. Valencia got forward a lot but possession never found him and he got just 11 touches of the ball.

For Newcastle, Ameobi came on for Cabaye as Newcastle looked to see out the game. Sissoko dropped into midfield ,more so the Magpies could maintain their dominance in the middle of the park.

Lastly, Debuchy felt a slight knock and was replaced by the more defensive minded Mapou Yanga-Mbiwa. He only had to make one tackle.

STAR PLAYER

Tiote misses out by a whisker but Debuchy deserves all the plaudits for a truly sensational 83 minutes. Scarcely caught out of position despite going forward so much, this was a performance a la Dani Alves for Barcelona.

The Frenchman has come in for stick but he is now showing consistency in his performances and it was he, and Santon who also played well, who offered Newcastle their width in attack. Manchester United were not allowed to play compact and try and lessen Newcastle’s numerical performance in midfield.

CONCLUSION

Far from easy, with the whole team working hard, but Newcastle can be a bit smug they went to champions with such swagger and came away with three points. By the end Cabaye and Tiote were almost mocking the United midfield, divulging in a bit of head tennis in front of Anderson.

Next weekend ,the Magpies who have now won five in six, face off against technically proficient Southampton, who have their own impressive full backs and, unlike Manchster  United, actually possess a midfield. It will be a much tougher challenge between two side hoping to be a dark horse for European football.

http://www.themag.co.uk/match-reports/manchester-united-v-newcastle-match-report-most-complete-tactics-stats-and-analysis/

@dademola, you missed the match. The above article described the match in bits perfectly well.

From the above article.

1. Evra won 29% of aerial dues while Debuchy won 75%.
2. RVP drops deep too to help defense as Rooney would, sometimes he dropped deeper than the midfielders.
3. RVP had zero shot on target. RVP zero shot off target.
4. Chicharito managed only 11 touches in the first half.
5. Our right side (Rafael and Janujaz) offered 42% of our attacks while left side (Evra and Nani) offered only 25%. Ironically, that was where Cleverley assisted and the same left side caused us more worries to De Gea in the first half.
6. Jones showed a great deal of tenacity in defence, making three tackles and winning 100% of his aerial battles but he looked lost, unsure of when to break forward and when to stay back. One time he did go forward Cleverly failed in picking up Cabaye who drifted into the box unmarked and slotted past De Gea, albeit via a Vidic deflection.
7. Newcastle attacks came from Man United left.
8. It can be deduced that Fellaini absence from the bench was a terrible mistake.

Tactics Board: van Persie lost in the deep

There was a time, not many years ago, when many were not convinced that Robin van Persie was a sole, or main, striker. Now it feels a little strange when he is deployed in a deeper position.

With Wayne Rooney suspended and Javier Hernandez leading the line, van Persie operated as the No. 10 against Newcastle. The problem Manchester United had was that it took the Dutchman too far from the visitors' net -- indeed, although he had a goal disallowed, he didn't have another shot. He only had two touches in the penalty box, and few others within 10 yards of it. What the touch map for United’s top scorer shows is that he was rarely on the ball in the final third.


In one respect, van Persie provided an accurate impression of the absent Rooney by dropping back into his own half, sometimes even behind the midfielders, in a bid to get the ball and make something happen. The time he spent on the wings, including taking corners from the right, meant he put in five crosses. The problem for United was that he was the man they would have wanted on the end of them.

While van Persie played as a No. 10 at Old Trafford, so did Philippe Coutinho at Anfield. The difference, perhaps, is that one is expected to be more of a scorer and the other more of a creator, and although Coutinho was not directly involved in any of Liverpool's four goals, his pass map indicates the influence he exerted.

Coutinho's 95 touches were the most of anyone on the pitch, and his 64 passes were second only to Joe Allen. However, the key element is that the Brazilian was finding teammates in dangerous positions. He attempted 36 passes in the final third, completing 26 and, as the diagram shows, he often picked out Liverpool players in the penalty box. It is the kind of penetrative passing few players can rival.


http://espnfc.com/blog/_/name/tacticsandanalysis/id/2330

1. Chart one: RVP touches on the pitch.
2. Photo of Rooney, the ogirigbogigbo of Manchester United. The spinal chord of Man United for many years now, the one who keeps our play together and makes it compact.
3. Coutinho touch chart. Compared to RVP in the number 10. LWKMD.

I hate rubbish our players, but I gave it back to you guys now as you had always done to Rooney. See RVP worst number 10 in history of football. No shot on or off target, yet some claiming he created chances. Shit! What is the definition of a chance, an offside goal?

Deluded with goals and assists stat or chances created. See Coutinho, many touches but no so much accuracy, no assist but he got the job done by being every where.

Ayagayagayagayo, hei, ayagayagayagayo..

StarBoard:
True, but then we still lost.
If the result were different, I would take that effort to mean something.
He missed a tap in at nil-all. Remember that too.

So does that approach apply to the whole team or just to Rooney?

Should y'all also get rid of RVP for being offside when he could clearly see across the line and should've used his brains to stay onside and get you a point?

A little balance would help - if you want to harp on Rooney missing a tap in, you need to also recognise his alertness and presence of mind to capitalise on Walker's error against Spurs, and his other contributions in other games.

debosky:

So does that approach apply to the whole team or just to Rooney?

Should y'all also get rid of RVP for being offside when he could clearly see across the line and should've used his brains to stay onside and get you a point?

A little balance would help - if you want to harp on Rooney missing a tap in, you need to also recognise his alertness and presence of mind to capitalise on Walker's error against Spurs, and his other contributions in other games.

I'm not seeing you talk about how Rooney got himself stupidly suspended for the Newcastle game either. Or maybe that was part of the goal-mouth action.

So what changed between Sunday where he was able to act impulsively to score from Walker's error and Wednesday where he couldn't tap in from 1/2 a yard?

And don't start on van Persie. So you say he would still have scored if he was onside? or did you happen to miss the scissor-kick from Williamson as he headed toward goal, or the touch that played him offside?
Abeg get over this your childish bitterness with van Persie and let go. Strikers stray offside all the time. Giroud too should have used his brains yesterday vs Everton, or is every other striker who strays offside a brainless lunatic, like you want us to believe?

^^ You're being unreasonable - he was always going to pick up a 5th yellow, either against Everton or another side so that is a non-issue.

Strikers/forwards will make mistakes in individual games - what counts is their contribution over a period of time. In that respect, it is not reasonable to criticise Rooney's overall contribution even though he (like every other player) could have done better in individual games.

The RVP example was just to highlight the irrational critique Rooney gets, not my opinion. It just shows that if I have decided to be critical of a player, I can make unreasonable demands of that player - which is what you are doing when it comes to Rooney.

And you also didn't answer my first question - is it only Rooney that your approach applies to or all players in the team?

SailorXY:
[url]hereisthecity.com/en-gb/2013/12/08/manchester-united-0-1-newcastle-five-interesting-stats/[/url]
What has Rooney done in the hole to make him better than RvP there? Abeg make una no dey yan dust! We've all seen the best of Rooney in the hole, & this is not even making any case for van Persie

You are joking right? The newcastle game was enough to answer your question. Rooney might not be good when compare to other top players in the hole, but he is definately better than rvp. Check out thees outrageous stats, if united post anything like that with rooney in the hole, heaven would have come down

. RVP had zero shot on target. RVP zero shot off target.
Chicharito managed only 11 touches in the first half.
Manchester United were the only Premier League side to make fewer than 100 passes in the attacking third this weekend.

too many idiots on this thread i don't even know where to start. making rooney look like god as if united have not won millions of matches without rooney.

rooney played against city, west brom & everton & united lost. anyone who says rooney's presence could have won us the game against newcastle is a lethargic devil. rooney is the poison in the team.....he has done nothing in the hole. our creativity in the final third is worse than dolphins of port harcourt.

8 league goals @ old trafford with 5 of them from setpieces tells you everything about our creativity at the moment - it's next to shyte. van persie was unfit against newcastle & he didn't lead the line like rooney had done against spurs, cardiff & everton so what's the comparison?

Hw i wish we had a combo of ozil and rooney behind rvp. Atleast both players wld be able to interchange positions without anyone of them being completely anonymous if shifted to d left wing!!

I don't know why we didn't sell RVP to buy LUkaku? See real number 9 are scoring and lifting their teams, but without Rooney on the pitch RVP has been sympathetic. A shame to wach

RVP is shyte. See what Suarez is doing in Liverpool. Had Suare not been suspended RVP wouldn't not smell the golden boot last season.

RVP is shyte, RVP is shyte and RVP is shyte.

^
My new slogan.


Ayagayagayagayo

n0m0705:
You are joking right? The newcastle game was enough to answer your question. Rooney might not be good when compare to other top players in the hole, but he is definately better than rvp. Check out thees outrageous stats, if united post anything like that with rooney in the hole, heaven would have come down

what outrageous stats?
van persie was infinitely better than rooney in the hole. his 77% pass accuracy is better than rooney who had clocked 62% pass accuracy most times this season.

van persie created 3 chances(open play). his long raking pass to chicharito was the pass of the week. on another day, hernandez should be burying that. mention one league match rooney has done better.

and we are talking of a very unfit van persie moyes didn't want to play for more than 60 minutes but was forced to play 90 mins. abeg, van persie is loads better in the hole than rooney.

Deluded with goals and assists stat or chances created. See Coutinho, many touches but not so much accuracy, no assist but he got the job done by being every where.

That is how a number 10 lift his team when all is not well.

I hope you guys are considering getting some therapy for elampiro.

This ayagayagayagayo business is getting serious.

debosky: I hope you guys are considering getting some therapy for elampiro.

This ayagayagayagayo business is getting serious.

abeg. this is still better than the lengthy epistles and articles he would normally post whenever arguments arose in the past.

coogar: too many idiots on this thread i don't even know where to start. making rooney look like god as if united have not won millions of matches without rooney.

rooney played against city, west brom & everton & united lost. anyone who says rooney's presence could have won us the game against newcastle is a lethargic devil. rooney is the poison in the team.....he has done nothing in the hole. our creativity in the final third is worse than dolphins of port harcourt.

8 league goals @ old trafford with 5 of them from setpieces tells you everything about our creativity at the moment - it's next to shyte. van persie was unfit against newcastle & he didn't lead the line like rooney had done against spurs, cardiff & everton so what's the comparison?

in these 3 matches, rooney scored 3 goals and notched an assist!!

dademola: in these 3 matches, rooney scored 3 goals and notched an assist!!

and we won a total of 2 points in the 9 available. what an outstanding performance!!!!

elampiro: I don't know why we didn't sell RVP to buy LUkaku? See real number 9 are scoring and lifting their teams, but without Rooney on the pitch RVP has been sympathetic. A shame to wach

RVP is shyte. See what Suarez is doing in Liverpool. Had Suare not been suspended RVP wouldn't not smell the golden boot last season.

RVP is shyte, RVP is shyte and RVP is shyte.

^
My new slogan.


Ayagayagayagayo

when RVP was at Arsenal, the other players worked for him. He's a better goal scorer than Rooney that's all

If Rooney has an injury this season without buying in Jan. It could lead to disaster for Man Utd.

coogar:

and we won a total of 2 points in the 9 available. what an outstanding performance!!!!

Yeah - Rooney played center back, full back, goal keeper and DM positions in addition to the striker position in those games too.

People posting useless stats - 77% pass accuracy but no goals. Please tell me what Rooney's pass accuracy was when he scored twice against Spurs or provided assists against Leverkusen.

I hope y'all hound him out eventually - he will find a home at the Emirates and score goals to his heart's content.

coogar:

and we won a total of 2 points in the 9 available. what an outstanding performance!!!!

very outstanding performance, bro!! Assuming he didnt score any, and we managed to win all those games, u'd claim it to be evidence dt rooney isnt a goalscorer and that oda players had to do rooney's job of scoring! Rooney cant be every where! He contributed his quota by scoring against cardiff and spurs!! Let oda players do dia jobs in dia respective roles!!

Na Moyes cause all these commotions.

RVP and Chicha should never start together again.

At worst, Welbeck should start with RVP. It works far better.

debosky:
Yeah - Rooney played center back, full back, goal keeper and DM positions in addition to the striker position in those games too.

rooney played centre back in games where he was the only striker on the pitch? hahahaha - your mitigating factors are laughable!!

debosky: People posting useless stats - 77% pass accuracy but no goals. Please tell me what Rooney's pass accuracy was when he scored twice against Spurs or provided assists against Leverkusen.

pass accuracy reduces the chances good opponents might get against you. they can't really hurt you without the ball, can they? 2 goals against spurs - one is a penalty kick & the other was a rare mistake from walker - what's the biggie? rooney played as the main striker in all these games, why won't he score? was RVP the lead striker on saturday? was he even fit?

I hope y'all hound him out eventually - he will find a home at the Emirates and score goals to his heart's content.

let him go to the emirates or enyimba - united won titles after better players than rooney left old trafford. who is rooney?