^Cool!

maclatunji:

^About making yanga about being married, they use changing of name to mark their territory. By changing their name to their husband's name, they are marking their territory and saying to other females- 'keep-off, he is mine.'

If they start-off with the ideal that deols has so well presented, some of their family, maybe mother, sister or friends will call them to the side and tell them: 'look, it is not a good thing that you have left out your husband's name O. How do you want other people to know you are is wife? Or do you want them (other women) to take your husband?' It is then that most of the opinionated sisters will change their mind and add their husband's name to their fathers.

A lady may have high ideals when she is outside marriage but when she enters, she realises that it is a different ball game. This is partly the reason that scholars emphasize the duties of the wife- she is the one that is happier on her wedding day and could be the unhappier of the 2 if things go wrong.

As a lady, you shouldn't worry about that too much- just accept a man that does not need too many lectures from anyone to perform his duties.

Territoriality you say lol, the funniest thing i have noticed is how easy they tend to forget about the permisibility of a second wife. Give a topic on mathna to a sister, she'll adequately tackle it and praise its virtues but when it comes to reality na different story entirely (some due to the way brothers go about it). What i am trying to say is, there are so many issues which boils down to the understanding and sincerity of the 2 peeps involved.

deols:

I agree with you it is not a yoruba culture but a western one. It is not haram when Mrs is boldly written before it but this isnt done in all cases. for example the ECOWAS passport has no marital status on it. when a woman is called by other than her father's name, it is a direct disobedience to that statement of Allah, call them by the name of their fathers. the verse continues to say and if you dont know the names of their fathers, call them your brethren in the religion. which kind nyanga. .womwen usually have misplaced priorities. there's more to a marriage than the name

yes. the roles are discussed during the solemnization. But that of the women is always over emphasised. Apart from during the wedding ceremonies, there is little said of the roles of a man. the effect of that is what I have problems with. how many men see playing with their children as a religious duty. if pple never knew, we can @ least start mentioning them.

It will be wrong to go against Allah's instruction definitely, but is it possible that out of necessity a female can change her name to her husband's, maybe for property or something else? You know we live in a complicated society already.
nyanga or misplaced priorities all join, she made her choice na.
I totally agree with you on your last statement, that is why i said our religious organizations should work more on councelling after marriage.

tbaba12345:

^^ my point is as long as the landscape is dominated by male scholars: that is what you will get:

The men will talk about what they are comfortable with and less about their responsibility. Many women do not even know the rights they have over their husbands.

I feel that the growth of women scholarship might help address the imbalance.

In this part of the world, south west nigeria, immediately a female child graduates from proper recitation of the quran,she is done with anything islamic education except for some few who eventually gain admission into higher institution and Allah so love her she associates and participate with muslim students' society on campus. Even at that, some campus mss do not put emphasis on arabic and islamic education. So for you to get a female islamic scholar in this part, you go sweat.

Salam alaikum

Wa Alaykum Salam

deols:

it seems you are hausa and yes, it isnt common among hausas. that is why I tried not to generalise.

No deols i'm not hausa but most of my friends been hausa can explain why i don't see it around me.

Personally, i would not change to my husband's name. I'll make it compound.
As for the female scholars, i know a lot of knowledgeable females but they never step out into the public to deliver lectures or preach in public.

zeeleso:

No deols i'm not hausa but most of my friends been hausa can explain why i don't see it around me.

Personally, i would not change to my husband's name. I'll make it compound.
As for the female scholars, i know a lot of knowledgeable females but they never step out into the public to deliver lectures or preach in public.

Abi now, I once saw an interview of a female Muslim lecturer from Unilag. I cannot remember her name because it was about 10 years ago, the woman's profile, her speech, kai too much.

On the first topic of women bearing her father or husband name. I want to ask, is it a sin for a Lady to bear the name of her Husband? If not, I think it will just be the issue of choice in choosing which name to bear or not to bear.

On the Second topic, you raise a good point there, there are also many issue that is not given proper attention, you hardly find any Ulama preaching about the responsibility of Parent on their children, they are mostly concern about the responsibility of children on their Parent, Had it being they emphasis more on that, maybe some of these social vices we witness will be reduce.
Ma Salam

tbaba12345:

*clears throat:

* ignores Oga maclatunji and Madam deols:

on topic 2:

i. ) Muslim women need to start becoming scholars and dā‘ī too and learn about their deen, Some of the greatest scholars in our history were women. Abu bakr (RA) and Umar (RA) used to seek advice from Aisha (RA).

Fatimah Sa`d al Khayr was another female scholar of hadiths: the leading scholar at her time was also a female : Fatimah al-Juzadniyyah taught both men and female because she was considered the greatest and most knowledgeable in some of the classical texts in her time.  There are thousands of female scholars that litter Islamic history.

It looks like women are less interested in Islamic scholarship and because it is a male dominated field now. The men talk about what they feel comfortable with.

I dont think WOmen are less interested than men are. Women are just never having enough opportunities as do men. In fact, local Imams detect seeing female preachers(not hearsay) and some bring fake fatawahs regarding WOmen preaching.

tbaba12345:

^^ my point is as long as the landscape is dominated by male scholars: that is what you will get:

The men will talk about what they are comfortable with and less about their responsibility. Many women do not even know the rights they have over their husbands.

I feel that the growth of women scholarship might help address the imbalance.

I agree with the female scholarship bridging the gaps. many women are unaware of their rights and men keep feeding them the wrong things. An example is a woman who accepted the recitation of a surah by her husband as sadaaqi without realising that such is acceptable only when the man is not capable of paying- when he is poor. such things pain me to my bones. to me, if he can afford millions, why not **

detest

jay bee:

Na real wa oh, no be by force nah

Salaam Sis Deols

wa alaykum salam

davidylan:

the very first thread where i see muslims having a good banter!   they are human afterall . . .

at least deols and i agree on one thing for once.  

we'll agree on better things in the future InshaAllah.

this is not a muslim-only problem and is also a deep issue in christianity as well. Pastors spend all their time hammering on a woman submitting to her husband YET forget that the preceding verses did say a man should love his wife as himself FIRST before admonishing her to submit.

this makes me feel it is less a religious issue as much as it is a product of the patriarchal nature of our society.

I agree but isnt religion supposed to shape our lives for the better

deols:

I dont think WOmen are less interested than men are. Women are just never having enough opportunities as do men. In fact, local Imams detect seeing female preachers(not hearsay) and some bring fake fatawahs regarding WOmen preaching.


I agree with the female scholarship bridging the gaps. many women are unaware of their rights and men keep feeding them the wrong things. An example is a woman who accepted the recitation of a surah by her husband as sadaaqi without realising that such is acceptable only when the man is not capable of paying- when he is poor. such things pain me to my bones. to me, if he can afford millions, why not **

LWKMD @bolded. Don't allow some people to read this, they can give you a beating because of it- especially the women. Some people use it to do shakara.

sino:

Territoriality you say lol, the funniest thing i have noticed is[b] how easy they tend to forget about the permisibility of a second wife.[/b] Give a topic on mathna to a sister, she'll adequately tackle it and praise its virtues but when it comes to reality na different story entirely (some due to the way brothers go about it). What i am trying to say is, there are so many issues which boils down to the understanding and sincerity of the 2 peeps involved.

that sounds like an issue you have with the women . I am one of such women I agree with polygamy only because it is something permissible in Islam. I wouldnt want to share my husband with another woman. The good thing is, not wanting a co-wife isnt haram in Islam. it is one of those things of the heart.

Now, you will see some so called Alfas, especially those MSS types telling women that encouraging their husbands to marry other women is a sign of EIman. where did they hear that from. I may be speaking out of Ignorance, So am challenging everyone here to please provide a verse of the Qur'an or ahadith that speaks of such. it is an example of how Men change things to suit them . waAllahu a'lam.

It will be wrong to go against Allah's instruction definitely, but is it possible that out of necessity a female can change her name to her husband's, maybe for property or something else? You know we live in a complicated society already.
nyanga or misplaced priorities all join, she made her choice na.

the laws of inheritance are clear in Islam. I wish we could all follow Allah's laws indefinitely. I think it is unfair for the wife to want everything to herself especially in situations where the dead husband has parents or children from other marriages. It wouldnt be a problem if it is about a joint business they had abi.

and about the organisations and counselling. Many are now doing that. But what makes an organisation are the people in it. What would be our own contribution? join an organisation and encourage them to do these things or start ours?

Jarus:

Salam alaikum

wa alaykum salam

zeeleso:

No deols i'm not hausa but most of my friends been hausa can explain why i don't see it around me.

Personally, i would not change to my husband's name. I'll make it compound.
As for the female scholars, i know a lot of knowledgeable females but they never step out into the public to deliver lectures or preach in public.

when u make it compond, what would it be like? it sounds better than just his surname.

And abut the female scholars, it is more about what the male Imams have been preaching but some of them do talk in public. FOMWAN does that.

these days, the mass media is more in use apart from events regarding particular organisations. I dont have a problem with women speaking on TV especially when they are well covered and the radio would be perfect as the voice of a woman is not an awrah (forbidden for others outside of her family to see).

olawalebab:

On the first topic of women bearing her father or husband name. I want to ask, is it a sin for a Lady to bear the name of her Husband? If not, I think it will just be the issue of choice in choosing which name to bear or not to bear.

I am not in a position to give verdicts. i would be too scared to give such but Allah commands that we perform as Salaat. Is it a sin not to? ALlah says to bear the names of our fathers. Is it a sin not to?

On the Second topic, you raise a good point there, there are also many issue that is not given proper attention, you hardly find any Ulama preaching about the responsibility of Parent on their children, they are mostly concern about the responsibility of children on their Parent, Had it being they emphasis more on that, maybe some of these social vices we witness will be reduce.
Ma Salam

you are right. ANd I am so sorry that it is very common among the Muslims of Nigeria to find a man more concerned with marrying more women than taking care of his children. If only a man realises how much gain there is when he brings up his female children in the way of ALlah?? let Muslims talk more of these things.
bi salam

let me barge in, on the first isssue about surname or no surname, I think it should be clear that a lot of men would prefer their wives bear their name, but out of their own ignorance ( I think) would not let their wives bear their own fathers' name which is more Islamic than the Husbands name, some thing I have noticed, women from very powerful families tend to keep their Family name than those from lesser background, some of these matter bothers on Ignorance and poverty, and this is where the islamic scholars should have enlightened the Ummah more, Our scholars over focus on women, women do this women do that bla bla bla, but what they fail to see that balance is required, the Qur'an clearly stated that men and women would have similar rights in their marriage but men have a degree over women because they are their protectors, hence what our scholars should have done is clearly tell both sides what their responsibilities and rights are, i tend to view the issue of marriage to be more of men fault if it go awful, I might be wrong, and i have seen very mean married women, but why I say these is that the Man is the C.E.O of his enterprise, and when the enterprise fails, the C.E.O is ultimately responsible, that is why our scholars should place more emphasis on the role of men in the household than always focussing on women, a man if his wife insist on using her family name should leave be, knowing that is the more correct option. and deols good thread! keep it up!

3

MY wife is my slave

once a man is married, he feels half his problems are solved. He cant cook no more. his house can now be forever clean and his clothes well washed and ironed. In essence, a maid is at hand. once again, this is in the majority. If you doubt this, wonder why many want the marriage fast just before ramadan

Dont get me wrong o. there's nothing wrong with a woman doing all of those things. In fact, many women pride themselves on the ability to do many of these things. What I just want known is what Islam states as the duty of the wife and those of her husband so that when next  a woman cant do any of these, she wont be seen as a 'bad wife' from the religious context but a cultural one.

what the Qur'an says-
Men are the protectors and maintainers of Women, because Allah has given the one more {strength} than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women re devoutly obedient, and guard in {the husband's} absence what Allah would have them guard,  


Now, you all would agree with me that-

A man who lets his wife pound his yam while she's heavily pregnant is not protecting her. in fact men seem to only think of the part that says to provide without thinking much of the protect.

Another man has just one car but because it was afterall his money spent in the purchase, he cruises around town while his heavily pregnant wife hops from one bus to the other.

give it a thought men. an attitudinal change would be good.

let me also state that cooking, cleaning, washing arent the primary roles of a woman in her marriage. Many scholars have spoken about that.some of Her duties are as follows-

1. to obey her husband(and note, in matters that are reasonable-nothing against Islam) “… the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to Allah and to their husbands)…” 4:34

2. to guard her chastity

3. to take care of his possessions including his children

4.to fulfill his (sexual) needs

vedaxcool:

let me barge in, on the first isssue about surname or no surname, I think it should be clear that a lot of men would prefer their wives bear their name, but out of their own ignorance ( I think) would not let their wives bear their own fathers' name which is more Islamic than the Husbands name, some thing I have noticed, women from very powerful families tend to keep their Family name than those from lesser background, some of these matter bothers on Ignorance and poverty, and this is where the islamic scholars should have enlightened the Ummah more, Our scholars over focus on women, women do this women do that bla bla bla, but what they fail to see that balance is required, the Qur'an clearly stated that men and women would have similar rights in their marriage but men have a degree over women because they are their protectors, hence what our scholars should have done is clearly tell both sides what their responsibilities and rights are, i tend to view the issue of marriage to be more of men fault if it go awful, I might be wrong, and i have seen very mean married women, but why I say these is that the Man is the C.E.O of his enterprise, and when the enterprise fails, the C.E.O is ultimately responsible, that is why our scholars should place more emphasis on the role of men in the household than always focussing on women, a man if his wife insist on using her family name should leave be, knowing that is the more correct option. and deols good thread! keep it up!

The Iyabo Obasanjos of this world come to mind. But any woman married to their family would want that name so people might know.

I agree that men should take the bigger blame when things go wrong. One of the reasons they are the head is to keep things going. to keep everyone happy and good.

thank you

I am tempted to ask the men in the house, do we not know many of the things that OP speaks of already? Marriage is never easy because it means two complete strangers (no matter how in love) coming to live together. There are bound to be shocks along the way. For example, husband may find that wife is not as docile as he thought and wife may find that husband is not as patient as she thought him to be before the wedding. As far as I am concerned, the key things needed for a successful marriage as Muslims are:

1. The fear of Allah.

2. Love

3. Communication and mutual trust.

4. Patience.

It is not something that you will master before entering and after you enter everything rolls smoothly. Remember, marriage is probably the only institution that you get the certificate before you take the course.

In short, what I am saying is that the things deols is complaining about are not really because of lack of knowledge but because the practicalities of implementing and applying that knowledge are not easy. May Allah make them easy for us.

Mac Permit me to say that you made a very valid point with regards to what makes marriages work, but u lost me where u said knowledge is not an important factor, in fact after fear of allah, knowlede to me is next most important factor, as with knowledge on what are the rights of the parties in a marriage both parties might transgress the limit acceptable to allah, when one reads islamic history, one wld notice a correlation between ignorance and the rise of biddah, more importantly we read of a case where a man going to report his wife to umar r.a for d usual husband and wife palava, on getting to umar r.a house he heard umar's wife also giving umar a tough time, after waiting listening to d arguements he noticed umar beared with his wife arguments through out d arguments, umar came out to attend to the man who brought a complaint to him, the man said to umar r.a that if he umar r.a d leader of the ummah can face this sort of challenges and bear with then he has found the solution to his problem, that is to also be patient with his wife, d point I am making is that u rarely hear scholars tell men to bear with their wives rather it is the other way round, knowledge on how the prophet treated his own wives would suffice to improve the general behavior of men to their wives definately there is need for knowledge in marriage is half of religion, to pratice this half well will require knowledge.

^You misunderstand my point. Of course, knowledge of Islam is important. What I am saying is this: knowing and understanding a concept is one thing, being able to apply it effectively without constraints is another.

For me, there are two classes of Muslims in the Southwest where I live and know-of:

1. The Muslims by name who by all sincere parameters would not qualify to be called Muslims.

2. Muslims with basic understanding of their religion who strive to practice Islam to the best of their ability.

My posts pertain to Category No.2.  and I am saying that most men in this category understand what deols is talking about. Their failure to effectively implement those things are mostly because they face serious challenges, not because they are ignorant or wicked. Those challenges could be economic, social or cultural.

For example, a husband who lives in Ota and works at Lekki is not likely to be able to help his wife with chores or have the time to play with his children or tolerate his wife's nagging (Pls. All women nag). It isn't because he doesn't know those are his duties but is environment his oppressive and likely to bring-out the worst in him or anybody for that matter.

Alternatively, a man marries a woman both are very conscious of Islam  but the man's family falls largely in category 1. The man will have a tough balancing act to do and may not be able to do somethings because of this. For example, washing the baby's nappies/clothes in the presence of his mother who has come for a visit is not advisable, not because he doesn't want to help his tired wife, but because he would be doing more harm to her than good in the long term because Mother-in-Law will find it humiliating in her reasoning and wife will feel the heat eventually. The wife should be patient and understand these things, but if she goes like this is what the hadith says and all that line of argument, she might end-up being husband-less before she can say Jack Robinson and I don't think the hadith intended that for her.

A lot of wisdom in application of knowledge is essential for marriage to work. Yes, there are many irresponsible men (even amongst scholars) but let not any woman think that marriage will be a bed of roses just because of what the Qur'an and hadith say about the roles of men and women in marriage. Those are the ideals but the reality could be quite different. I am saying: hope for the best but be prepared for the worst.

I hope you get my drift now.

I am tempted to ask the men in the house, do we not know many of the things that OP speaks of already? Marriage is never easy because it means two complete strangers (no matter how in love) coming to live together. There are bound to be shocks along the way. For example, husband may find that wife is not as docile as he thought and wife may find that husband is not as patient as she thought him to be before the wedding. As far as I am concerned, the key things needed for a successful marriage as Muslims are:

1. The fear of Allah.

2. Love

3. Communication and mutual trust.

4. Patience.

It is not something that you will master before entering and after you enter everything rolls smoothly. Remember, marriage is probably the only institution that you get the certificate before you take the course.

In short, what I am saying is that the things deols is complaining about are not really because of lack of knowledge but because the practicalities of implementing and applying that knowledge are not easy. May Allah make them easy for us

Well, you cant be so sure that everyone knows of what am saying already and not knowing isn't a bad thing in itself once there's room for learning. knowing and not taking it into practice is worse than not knowing at all. And even if everyone knew already, didnt the almighty Allah refer to us as forgetful? and He speaks of the end time(asr) as a time when all man is in lost except those who believe and enjoin one another to truth and endurance. In essence, I am not here to claim madam-know-it-all but to play a part in enjoining all to the truth and in following the dictates of ALlah.

And as to your point on the things that make marriage successful, luckily u mentioned the fear of Allah as the most important. It is this fear of Allah that would make you do exactly what Allah says. that sums all I have been saying, except that you have a definition of the fear of Allah that I am nt aware of?

practicality of applying the knowledge not easy? that is exactly what someone who doesnt observe salaah would say and is what someone not ready to wear hijab would. do you presume Allah would understand?

vedaxcool: Mac Permit me to say that you made a very valid point with regards to what makes marriages work, but u lost me where u said knowledge is not an important factor, in fact after fear of allah, knowlede to me is next most important factor, as with knowledge on what are the rights of the parties in a marriage both parties might transgress the limit acceptable to allah, when one reads islamic history, one wld notice a correlation between ignorance and the rise of biddah, more importantly we read of a case where a man going to report his wife to umar r.a for d usual husband and wife palava, on getting to umar r.a house he heard umar's wife also giving umar a tough time, after waiting listening to d arguements he noticed umar beared with his wife arguments through out d arguments, umar came out to attend to the man who brought a complaint to him, the man said to umar r.a that if he umar r.a d leader of the ummah can face this sort of challenges and bear with then he has found the solution to his problem, that is to also be patient with his wife, d point I am making is that u rarely hear scholars tell men to bear with their wives rather it is the other way round, knowledge on how the prophet treated his own wives would suffice to improve the general behavior of men to their wives definately there is need for knowledge in marriage is half of religion, to pratice this half well will require knowledge.

Thank you o. certain things are taken for granted just because people think all they need do is perform the five pillars of Islam and they would be fine. What about our dealings with others, most especially our family. With the best example from the prophet and his companions we would have a perfect life now and in the hereafter. this is where knowledge comes in. Islam is a way of life after all.

@ this point, I believe you are arguing not because there is a tangible reason to. I'll take ur points one after the other.

maclatunji: ^You misunderstand my point. Of course, knowledge of Islam is important. What I am saying is this: knowing and understanding a concept is one thing, being able to apply it effectively without constraints is another.

Are you saying there are no people who might be able to apply it? you probably arent ready to and that is no one's problem but you shouldnt take the job of discouraging others. I like to talk in terms of the ideal and even when people try, they would have tried and would even get the reward of trying. pessimist views on anything is very bad. You wont try let alone achieve anything that way.

For me, there are two classes of Muslims in the Southwest where I live and know-of:

1. The Muslims by name who by all sincere parameters would not qualify to be called Muslims.

May I ask you what the definition of Muslim is? It is statements like this that cause problems. I'd really like to hear your definition of that. And if truly you think this category exists, why again were you asking if there were people unaware of certain things I was talking about?

2. Muslims with basic understanding of their religion who strive to practice Islam to the best of their ability.

how about those beyond the basics. and btw, they also strive. are they not residents in the southwest? oh!, they dont live near you

My posts pertain to Category No.2.  and I am saying that most men in this category understand what deols is talking about. Their failure to effectively implement those things are mostly because they face serious challenges, not because they are ignorant or wicked. Those challenges could be economic, social or cultural.

I made it clear from the very beginning that most of these things are more cultural than religious and davidylan buttressed my point by saying it is due to the patriarchal nature of our society. why repeat that? and if they face these constraints, why put the burden on their wife whom should be under their protection. why not let the effects of those challenges fall on themselves. sounds like that yoruba statement that means when you cant handle your mate, you go for the powerless .

For example, a husband who lives in Ota and works at Lekki is not likely to be able to help his wife with chores or have the time to play with his children or tolerate his wife's nagging (Pls. All women nag). It isn't because he doesn't know those are his duties but is environment his oppressive and likely to bring-out the worst in him or anybody for that matter.

he cant help her and cannot as well hire a maid? hikmah is all this needs and he cant find time to play with his children? the job must be a 24/7 one. before u know it, he wont be able to pray salaat.

Alternatively, a man marries a woman both are very conscious of Islam  but the man's family falls largely in category 1. The man will have a tough balancing act to do and may not be able to do somethings because of this. For example, washing the baby's nappies/clothes in the presence of his mother who has come for a visit is not advisable, not because he doesn't want to help his tired wife, but because he would be doing more harm to her than good in the long term because Mother-in-Law will find it humiliating in her reasoning and wife will feel the heat eventually. The wife should be patient and understand these things, but if she goes like this is what the hadith says and all that line of argument, she might end-up being husband-less before she can say Jack Robinson and I don't think the hadith intended that for her.

the new convert to Islam's mother would find her daughter's hijab humiliating. should she stop wearing it? these examples are non issues. let him use hikmah(wisdom). let him be diplomatic. would his mother live with him forever. he can hire a maid sef.

You keep finding excuses. people do that a lot when not ready to accept something they knew of but not ready to practice.

I pray Allah makes the deen easy for everyone.

A lot of wisdom in application of knowledge is essential for marriage to work. Yes, there are many irresponsible men (even amongst scholars) but let not any woman think that marriage will be a bed of roses just because of what the Qur'an and hadith say about the roles of men and women in marriage. Those are the ideals but the reality could be quite different. I am saying: hope for the best but be prepared for the worst.

that statement in bold, I agree with you on. Now, try c how you can apply that in dealing with your challenges without going against Allah's laws. You'd agree His laws are paramount.

^LOL, I don't expect any less #Thatisnotabadthing.

As for you saying I may not want to practice those things, don't be so quick to judge. It is not by what people say O, if it is that one you want to hold on to, I sincerely fear for you.

@mac, perhaps I did get your point wrong or it was not fully expressed in any case I get your drift bt it happens to drift off a cliff why because you r making many assumptions that blatantly false, like u assuming many muslim men have adequate knowledge in relation to marriage and I think these thread actually addresses all muslims so isolating those who know and leaving the know not really creates a mud pie, not that I have done a survey but generally one is safe to assume based on the sort of stories we hear about marital squabbles that there is serious deficiency of knowlede when it comes to marriage. The pts u gave about how difficult it can be do wat is right are merely convinient and at best self serving, it raises numerous unanswerable question such as how many muslim actually wrk 24-7? How many mother in laws wld find her son helping his wife as bad? Etc this again I tell wld revolve round the issue of muslim scholars not adequately putting both sexes roles to generality of the ummah in the right perspectives, that is why deols raising these issues shld be encouraged even though barely a fraction of the ummah actually visit nl, in all my life only one book have I seen that actually outlines the roles and responsibility of a husband to his wife, unfortunately I never got to purchase the book neither can I recall its name and author, and it is true that the issue have the hands of socio - economic and culture clouding it, bt truth be told all these is not help by over-emphasing the role of woman in the marriage when she is not marrying herself and leaving the c-in-c out of it. May Allah guide the ummah right .amin

vedaxcool: @mac, perhaps I did get your point wrong or it was not fully expressed in any case I get your drift bt it happens to drift off a cliff why because you r making many assumptions that blatantly false, like u assuming many muslim men have adequate knowledge in relation to marriage and I think these thread actually addresses all muslims so isolating those who know and leaving the know not really creates a mud pie, not that I have done a survey but generally one is safe to assume based on the sort of stories we hear about marital squabbles that there is serious deficiency of knowlede when it comes to marriage. The pts u gave about how difficult it can be do wat is right are merely convinient and at best self serving, it raises numerous unanswerable question such as how many muslim actually wrk 24-7? How many mother in laws wld find her son helping his wife as bad? Etc this again I tell wld revolve round the issue of muslim scholars not adequately putting both sexes roles to generality of the ummah in the right perspectives, that is why deols raising these issues shld be encouraged even though barely a fraction of the ummah actually visit nl, in all my life only one book have I seen that actually outlines the roles and responsibility of a husband to his wife, unfortunately I never got to purchase the book neither can I recall its name and author, and it is true that the issue have the hands of socio - economic and culture clouding it, bt truth be told all these is not help by over-emphasing the role of woman in the marriage when she is not marrying herself and leaving the c-in-c out of it. May Allah guide the ummah right .amin

I think I have done a good job of representing the other side of the divide. However, if deols or anybody else wants to truly enlighten Muslim men on our roles as husbands and fathers, they can just post the materials in a new thread. This thread to me seems whiny and naggy.

If I don't moderate deols' posts with my 'bad' arguments, some woman might actually start fighting her husband on some issues raised here when she could as well ignore them without injuring her dignity or religion. To make matters worse, the man might actually be trying his best.

By the way, there are some very pious Muslim, knowledgeable women reading this who are telling themselves- "This deols of a girl doesn't know men at all."