mazaje:

You clearly stated that your god can not be summoned at will because that takes him of the god category. . .I clearly showed you where he was summoned at will to prove himself just the way martins talked about and you are here blabbing and throwing more excuses. . .In the pages of story books which happen to be the only place where your god exist, he is always doing incredible things, he can be summoned at will to prove himself, Elija summoned him at will. . . Gideon and many others. . .In fact in the pages of story book were read that your god once addressed men through public speech. . .God is the same yesterday to day and forever no?. . .Keep on making excuses. . .If your god truly exist you will NOT be here telling us about his existence and what he wants because you have failed miserably, he will do it himself. . .

Mr_Anony:
If there is anything I don't quite like about you, it is how you start an argument by choosing not to understand a position.

If I say "Mazaje come here" and you decide to come, that doesn't mean I automatically have control over your will.
However, if I call you repeatedly and you always show up each time I call, then It can be argued that I have control over your will.

God can be called upon but it is entirely His decision whether He wants to honor your word or not. What Martian was asking for was repeatable theophany i.e. controllable appearances of God.

God is not controllable. If God's appearances are repeatable, then they cease to be miracles no matter how wonderful they are.
If every time you recite a prayer a certain way, the exact same miracle happens then it is no longer God you are praying to but a machine.

mazaje:

Remember we are talking about a god your guys claim WANTS humanity to know him and have a personal relationship with him. .We are talking about a god your guys claim WANTS to SAVE humanity. . .If he can speak to ancient men through public speech on the pages of story books, fight along side them, show himself to be real to them when he was summoned for a text etc, he should be able to do same to us the modern people. . .So that we will stop relying on people like you that are always trying to make his case for him but failing all of the time. . . .

Mr_Anony:
As expected, you have come up with another theory laden with a pre-assumption. How does the story of Elijah prove that God is subject to man's will? Elijah believed in God. He called God and God answered. It was God's choice whether He wished to answer or not. Others have called God at some times and He chose not to answer. If God didn't answer, He would still have been God. You are only speculating as usual.

Mr_Anony:

And I am saying that God is still in the business of doing the extraordinary. he is still talking to people and doing miracles and people are still believing. Nothing has changed about God.
The only thing is that when a man has pre-concluded that miracles never happen, even if a miracle kicked him on the head, he won't believe it is a miracle he will say "there must be a scientific explanation for it" and when he has found none, he will say "we are still searching for a scientific explanation" or he says "it is a perfectly normal though rare occurrence" he never accepts a miracle, he doubts it until he dies.
That is what I call "fanatical skeptism": The firm belief in doubt.


https://www.nairaland.com/995063/skeptic

Kay 17:

If miracles are impossibilites and disruptions in natural order and laws of thought, its fair to say both God and Miracles can exist in an irrational world.

Mr_Anony:
And I am saying that God is still in the business of doing the extraordinary. he is still talking to people and doing miracles and people are still believing. Nothing has changed about God.

Mr_Anony:
The only thing is that when a man has pre-concluded that miracles never happen, even if a miracle kicked him on the head, he won't believe it is a miracle he will say "there must be a scientific explanation for it" and when he has found none, he will say "we are still searching for a scientific explanation" or he says "it is a perfectly normal though rare occurrence" he never accepts a miracle, he doubts it until he dies.
That is what I call "fanatical skeptism": The firm belief in doubt.

Mr_Anony:

And I am saying that God is still in the business of doing the extraordinary. he is still talking to people and doing miracles and people are still believing. Nothing has changed about God.
The only thing is that when a man has pre-concluded that miracles never happen, even if a miracle kicked him on the head, he won't believe it is a miracle he will say "there must be a scientific explanation for it" and when he has found none, he will say "we are still searching for a scientific explanation" or he says "it is a perfectly normal though rare occurrence" he never accepts a miracle, he doubts it until he dies.
That is what I call "fanatical skeptism": The firm belief in doubt.


https://www.nairaland.com/995063/skeptic

Mr_Anony:
Do you believe that this world is rationally ordered?

Kay 17:

If we aren't in a rationally ordered world, there would be no Reason.

Kay 17: I answered Rational

Kay 17: Why should I presume a disorganised world??

If all entities have their characters and behave in a predictable manner, wouldn't order be natural?!

Kay 17: Gravity.

Energy

mazaje:

As Martin said, the restoration of the limbs of an amputee after being prayed for in the name of Jesus will make me and all the atheist here evangelical christians, after all Jesus PROMISED those that believe in him the ability to do GREATER things than he did. .We were told among other things that he healed a man whose ear was amputated and had it restored. . .If the bible is true christians can heal amputees and restore their amputated limbs back. . .The FACT that no christian on earth can do that says it all. . .Clear cut miracles DO NOT happen. . .

phxc: @ OP

When all the theists quit talking and God actually does the talking.

phxc: @ OP

When all the theists quit talking and God actually does the talking.

phxc: @ OP

When all the theists quit talking and God actually does the talking.

noetic16: Atheists assert that there is no God. Usually they lean on science, logic or supposedly superior arguments to assert their claims.

but lets for one minute assume that atheists/atheism is motivated by lack of answers or superstition or evidence as they claim and that science has an answer to everything, what would change in the face of science or evidences available to change your atheistic postulations?

obviously the physical healing of an amputee would not change the mind of someone like mazaje, simply because you can tell that mazaje's atheism is motivated by emotions. somewhere along the line, he prayed for something extremely important, it did not happen, he didnt bother to find out God's opinion, he just concluded that there is no God. The same story applies to a million other atheists on the face of the earth, who probably had a loved one on a sick bed dying of an incurable disease only for them to pray and still yet the person died, hence they concluded that there is no God.

Obviously, these people are misguided as they have no understanding of prayer, God, Jesus, Salvation, Miracles or Christianity. Their mental orientation involves the belief that God is like alaadin jinn, who you simply call on at any time of the day for whatever u want. is this what the scriptures teach? So we had misguided half-baked christians, with unChristlike desires suddenly bitter and professing atheism.

But the crux of the matter is that, since all atheists claim to be atheist due to prevailing evidences or lack of them to support the existence of a creator . ..the question is what evidence would suffice to change your mind? what evidence would change your present dogmatic belief?

This question is important because it allows us to separate emotional atheists from the logical ones. Logical ones lean on intelligence and idealism to argue their case and perhaps can be honest enough to admit the vulnerabilty of their argument.

so what would make you dump atheism?

Mr_Anony:
You gave some very wrong examples or perhaps you didn't get my question. gravity for instance is not something that behaves in a certain way, gravity is the behaviour itself.
we were talking about natural order and things following that order gravity is one such natural order, energy is an ability. They are in a sense abstracts.
You have not mentioned any entity that follows an order but the order the entity follows is explained by observing it in isolation i.e an object moving but which you don't need the law of motion to explain it's movement; the moving object just explains the phenomenon of movement in itself.
There is no such thing.

for irrationality and disorder to occur, there must be order and rationality from which it deviates.
For rationality and order to exist, there must be one that rationalizes and puts the order in place

Kay 17:

Gravity is an abstract?

Energy is ability??

I doubt if we are eferuing to the same terms.

Kay 17: ^^^

So you agree with mr anony that Gravity is an abstract and Energy is ability??

Kay 17: Empirical proofs for evolution:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence_of_common_descent

Kay 17:

Gravity is an abstract?

Energy is ability??

I doubt if we are eferuing to the same terms.

Mr_Anony:
You gave some very wrong examples or perhaps you didn't get my question. gravity for instance is not something that behaves in a certain way, gravity is the behaviour itself.
we were talking about natural order and things following that order gravity is one such natural order, energy is an ability. They are in a sense abstracts.
You have not mentioned any entity that follows an order but the order the entity follows is explained by observing it in isolation i.e an object moving but which you don't need the law of motion to explain it's movement; the moving object just explains the phenomenon of movement in itself.
There is no such thing.

for irrationality and disorder to occur, there must be order and rationality from which it deviates.
For rationality and order to exist, there must be one that rationalizes and puts the order in place