afam4eva:

I disagree with you. Most Nigerian immigrants in the US are not elites but middle-class people who ran to America to make ends meet. You can tell by looking at the parents of these Nigerian-Americans. Most of them are not educated. Most of them lived in squalor when they were in Nigeria.

Maybe I only know a small subset of Nigerians in the area that I grew up in the United States, but most of the Nigerian parents in my community have a college education. My father like many others traveled to the United States in the early 80s to get an education. I think he was part of the second wave of Nigerians who came to the United States, but many like him came to this country in search for an education.

I have not see many Nigerian immigrants in the United States who are not educated. Even many of the cab drivers have degrees from universities in Nigeria, but to make ends meet, they drive a cab to support their families.

There is something though to this point of not everyone having the financial means. So perhaps poverty artificially decreases the competition.

Effectively you have two population groups..Group 1 for whom money is not an issue regarding education, and Group 2 for whom it is. Let's say that in Nigeria today Group 2 is locked out.

If I'm in the top 1% of Group 1 (and say ranked X out of this group), and Group 2 is given access, certainly my rank will probably fall a lot...I'll only be the Yth best guy out of the merged populations. So maybe before this group was given access I'd have gotten a spot at Princeton. Now Princeton runs out of spots and I get kicked down to the University of Chicago.

But unless we believe that Group 2 is brighter on average than Group 1, I'll still be in the 99th percentile (well under reasonable assumptions about the two populations, anyway).

So the point is, those dudes who studied at Ife/Ibadan/etc in the 50s/60s/70s are at a pretty high percentile relative to the Nigerian average, and thus it isn't surprising that they and their children are doing really well in the US..

Nebeuwa:

Maybe I only know a small subset of Nigerians in the area that I grew up in the United States, but most of the Nigerian parents in my community have a college education. My father like many others traveled to the United States in the early 80s to get an education. I think he was part of the second wave of Nigerians who came to the United States, but many like him came to this country in search for an education.

I have not see many Nigerian immigrants in the United States who are not educated. Even many of the cab drivers have degrees from universities in Nigeria, but to make ends meet, they drive a cab to support their families.

Being an elite has little or nothing to do with Education. These people, whether they had a college education before departing for the US is not the point. The point is that many of these people went to the US to survive.

afam4eva:


Being an elite has little or nothing to do with Education. These people, whether they had a college education before departing for the US is not the point. The point is that many of these people went to the US to survive.

In Nigeria, I believe there is a correlation between being considered an elite and having a quality education. Even though there are Nigerian elite who do not have an education. And you said many of these people went to the U.S. to survive, but you forget that had to have the means to come to the United States. It is not cheap, and the United States does not accept everyone. You have to have the means, and the people in Nigeria who have the means are the elite.

I think you are also confusing the situation. Many Nigerian elite would simply be considered middle class or upper middle class in the United States. You also have to keep in mind that more than half of the population only lives off of $2 a day.

Nebeuwa:

In Nigeria, I believe there is a correlation between being considered an elite and having a quality education. Even though there are Nigerian elite who do not have an education. And you said many of these people went to the U.S. to survive, but you forget that had to have the means to come to the United States. It is not cheap, and the United States does not accept everyone. You have to have the means, and the people in Nigeria who have the means are the elite.

I think you are also confusing the situation. Many Nigerian elite would simply be considered middle class or upper middle class in the United States. You also have to keep in mind that more than half of the population only lives off of $2 a day.

The correlation between being an elite and having a quality education is minimal whether in Nigeria or elsewhere. And these people, despite the fact that they might be financially strapped, borrow money for their VISA and transportation fare from friends and relatives. So, technically you don't have to be rich to travel to the US. Where most of these people have a problem is getting a VISA.

I agree with Ekt bear

I think most Nigerians who come to the US are middle class at the minimum.

First most of them are literate hence their ability to pass a visa interview. Almost all of them have at least a high School and some higher education maybe Technical college or Nursing school.

And a significant part of them have college degrees.

What percentages of Nigerians in Nigeria have college degrees vs Nigerians in Diaspora that have a college degree

How many times do you see ppl of the caliber of Market women, labourers or Almajiris get visas to go to the US

By extension children tend to achieve at least what their parents achieve educationally. If your parents have High school degrees, Its almost impossible for you not to have a High school degree or more

Ekt, I think this point holds for Indians too or are they classified with Asians? I believe if Indians are taken separately they would be higher than Nigerians cos Hardly do you see Indians doing menial jobs and most white collar professions they form a huge part of the foreign quota e.g medicine, Finance, IT(>>60%), Pharmacy.

Not common to find an indian flipping burgers or sweeping the road

afam4eva:

The correlation between being an elite and having a quality education is minimal whether in Nigeria or elsewhere. And these people, despite the fact that they might be financially strapped, borrow money for their VISA and transportation fare from friends and relatives. So, technically you don't have to be rich to travel to the US. Where most of these people have a problem is getting a VISA.

Let us agree to disagree. I only speak from my own observation, in which I haven not seen many Nigerian immigrants who do not have a college education. And if they do not have a college education, they are in the United States to attain one.

ndu_chucks:

How many of the 100-150 million Nigerians do you think have the opportunity to own or drive a car, to the point of being able to extend road courtesy. You must belle full first before you begin find motor to drive. You sir belong to the said upper class. Your only flaw is the limitation you place on your potentials, by your continuous and foolish call for the disintegration of our dear country.

There is no country or nation or even group of people that has seen smiley side of progress without unity. The word, unity, can never be used in the same sentence with Nigeria. Those who have foolishly called for continuous fake and meaningless co-existence in Nigeria are sworn enemy to mankind.

Nigeria as presently constituted will never see progressive period. I do not know what part of Nigeria you reside but in Igbo land ordinary pure water seller has car or motorize object. Days are gone when means of transportation are reserved for the middle or upper class in Nigeria especially in Igbo land.

dayokanu:
By extension children tend to achieve at least what their parents achieve educationally. If your parents have High school degrees, Its almost impossible for you not to have a High school degree or more

You raise an interesting point that is often overlooked. Most children do indeed try to achieve at least what their parents were able to achieve educationally. Both my parents attained a Masters degree. I intend to get a Ph.D and hopefully the cycle continues through the generation.

I would be interested to see the data on the educational achievements of 2nd generation Nigerians in the United States. I presume the rate is as high as recent Nigerian immigrants, because of the pressure that is found within the different Nigerian communities throughout the United States.

A lot of Indians drive cabs though. Hotels too, and gas stations. All three are common stereotypes about them.

I've noticed too that they are into office supply stores. Like most of the copy shops where I live are Indian-owned, for some reason.

But yeah, not much in the way of manual labor..that is about the closest they get.

Mostly IT, medicine, engineering, science, banking, law for the rest of them. Just ordinary middle/upper class sort of careers.

2nd generation Nigerians in the US...man a lot of them try to fit in too much. Involved in too much nonsense, from what I've observed.

Not sure what the aggregate stats look like though

ekt_bear: Sam Ikenna.

Not too sure how old you are. But are you saying that your parents were not amongst the upper echelon of education in Nigeria?

The problem is I think some of you are defining "elite" only by the amount of money in someone's pocket.

But the way the world has been for the past 30 or 40 years of so, this isn't the case...if you have brains but no money, you can easily earn an excellent salary.

If your parents went to somewhere like UNN or whatever the best Eastern Nigerian schools were at that time, then I'm not sure it is fair to pretend as if you are just an ordinary guy, or the child of ordinary folk

Not many were able to do what your parents did..

I disagree with your scenario of having “brains but no money, you can easily earn an excellent salary” as it pertains to a society such as Nigeria. This scenario can be obtainable in well-structured and organized society where brainy chaps are harnessed and poverty does not constitute a road block.

What your scenario has given Nigeria are the so-called yahoo-yahoo boys, kidnapers, call-girls and gangsters as university students, 419ers, bad government, extremely hustling group of people willing to pull off any job for money and dysfunctional society.

ekt_bear: 2nd generation Nigerians in the US...man a lot of them try to fit in too much. Involved in too much nonsense, from what I've observed.

Not sure what the aggregate stats look like though

LOL @ the "fit in" part. I already know what you mean by that unfortunately. But can you blame many of our brothers and sisters? Their culture is the dominant culture amongst the black community in the United States, but that is another subject altogether.

I still feel that 2nd generation Nigerians have a high rate in educational success, because many of our parents stress the virtues of an education. My father still likes to remind me of how I have more opportunities than him to succeed in the United States, because I do not have a Nigerian "accent," and I am an American citizen by birth. When I think about it, maybe there is a lot of truth in what he used to tell me.

ekt_bear: There is something though to this point of not everyone having the financial means. So perhaps poverty artificially decreases the competition.

Effectively you have two population groups..Group 1 for whom money is not an issue regarding education, and Group 2 for whom it is. Let's say that in Nigeria today Group 2 is locked out.

If I'm in the top 1% of Group 1 (and say ranked X out of this group), and Group 2 is given access, certainly my rank will probably fall a lot...I'll only be the Yth best guy out of the merged populations. So maybe before this group was given access I'd have gotten a spot at Princeton. Now Princeton runs out of spots and I get kicked down to the University of Chicago.

But unless we believe that Group 2 is brighter on average than Group 1, I'll still be in the 99th percentile (well under reasonable assumptions about the two populations, anyway).

So the point is, those dudes who studied at Ife/Ibadan/etc in the 50s/60s/70s are at a pretty high percentile relative to the Nigerian average, and thus it isn't surprising that they and their children are doing really well in the US..

I'd like to think that you made the statement while drunk or high on something you are normally not used to. I just want to make it clear that this is your opinion and it really doesnt reflect the state of things on ground, then or now. And no one will agree with that baseless point of yours, I'd like to think

I share your glee -- up to a point. Surely no one will ever dare argue against your arm-chair expert opinion that those who studied at Ife/Ibadan in the 50s/60s/70s are at a pretty high percentile relative to the Nigerian average. The downside of your ridiculous argument is that there was no Ife in the 50s. Ife of the 60s was a shadow of what it is right now and entrance exam to Ife and Ibadan in the 60s wasn't that competitive. In fact there were no entrance exams in the 50s and 60s, admission was based on interest and nepotism, and affluence played little or no role. Higher education was paid for by the govt or by private individuals/corporations; many a d/u/m/b student got scholarships, sponsored by UAC etc. JAMB was established in 1977. Shortly after the creation of Yaba College ( which later became UI) "the Nigerian Daily Times described it as a grand idea, and imposing structure, resting on rather weak foundations. Noting the low standards of the Middle Schools, whose graduates would enter Yaba." The practice of admitting very weak students continued until WAEC was standardized in the late 70s. Prior to that, you get your school leaving certificate, if you want more, just show up and hopefully the admission officer speaks the same language as you, and by magic you are in. There was no IQ test whatsoever. The whole admission process was random, and sadly, very subjective. The education itself was sub-par and the tradition continues to this day.

And, NO, we don't know the general history of the parents of the kids doing well in the US. You only know yourself and a couple of other people in your area. My story, the story of my friend Nonzo, Ikemefuna, and millions of other Nigerians in the US are unknown to you, and any broad generalization on your part is, at best, a product of your fertile imagination.

Nebeuwa:

I have connection to Nigeria through my father and maybe one day, my remains will be brought to my ancestral village, but that is not a high priority for me. To be honest, I would rather sponsor my kinsmen to come to the United States and get an education. I am in full support of increasing the number of Nigerians living in the United States. We as an immigrant community should make our mark in our newly found home.

I recognize that we should never forget our "homeland," but in the end, we need to look at what is best for our family. And the United States, not Nigeria has been a beacon for immigrants from all across the world for over a century.

Why not look at the indians and the chinese around you.
The reason why india and china is growing rapidly,is partly because they never forget to invest at home,and yet they also make their mark in their new environment.
Weren't the asians labelled the 'model immigrants'.
Take a cue from them.

ekt_bear: A lot of Indians drive cabs though. Hotels too, and gas stations. All three are common stereotypes about them.

I've noticed too that they are into office supply stores. Like most of the copy shops where I live are Indian-owned, for some reason.

But yeah, not much in the way of manual labor..that is about the closest they get.

Mostly IT, medicine, engineering, science, banking, law for the rest of them. Just ordinary middle/upper class sort of careers.

Are you sure you can differentiate between Pakistani and indians regarding these gas station and Taxi jobs?

So the point I am making is, If you are not poor like abject poor in America, your chances of going to college increases

But here is Texas the Indians are like tops among immigrants in terms of education and earning power.

Almost in every college. Top programs in Science, Finance, Healthcare are dominated by Indians in large numbers

I went for the High sch grad of a Niece at a very top school in Dallas (Texas academy of maths and Science) of like 120 graduating students almost 70 are Indians, 30 Chinese 7 blacks (of which 4 are Nigerians)

In top Engineering, Medicine Sciences and other course in colleges too, the ratio is similar to the above

Dede1: True. Nigeria is a bit more of a dysfunctional country...probably who you know is more important than what you know, how smart you are, how talented you are, etc.

Then again this is probably true of most countries.

What I like about the US is that I think it is easier to rise from the bottom of society to the top.

My good buddy from college, his father is an illegal immigrant from Mexico (or so I believe), doesn't speak English well, and I dunno what the guy does for a living. But my friend is fairly sharp...salutatorian of his HS class, got into our college, finished law school and is now is working making good money.

Where else in the world can you go from poverty to comfort in ~5 years purely on the dint of hard work and ability?

No wuruwuru, nobody that he had to scam or cheat.

dayokanu: I agree with Ekt bear

I think most Nigerians who come to the US are middle class at the minimum.

First most of them are literate hence their ability to pass a visa interview. Almost all of them have at least a high School and some higher education maybe Technical college or Nursing school.

And a significant part of them have college degrees.

What percentages of Nigerians in Nigeria have college degrees vs Nigerians in Diaspora that have a college degree

How many times do you see ppl of the caliber of Market women, labourers or Almajiris get visas to go to the US

By extension children tend to achieve at least what their parents achieve educationally. If your parents have High school degrees, Its almost impossible for you not to have a High school degree or more

Ekt, I think this point holds for Indians too or are they classified with Asians? I believe if Indians are taken separately they would be higher than Nigerians cos Hardly do you see Indians doing menial jobs and most white collar professions they form a huge part of the foreign quota e.g medicine, Finance, IT(>>60%), Pharmacy.

Not common to find an indian flipping burgers or sweeping the road

This is a yawn from another confused fellow. I know many Nigerians who earned degrees of any strata yet their parents were peasant farmers or market women that never saw four walls of elementary school. In the neck of my woods, it borders on individual determination to achieve laurels in academic despite the wicked presence of poverty.

Dede1:


This is a yawn from another confused fellow. I know many Nigerians who earned degrees of any strata yet their parents were peasant farmers or market women that never saw four walls of elementary school. In the neck of my woods, it borders on individual determination to achieve laurels in academic despite the wicked presence of poverty.

I totally agree with you.

dayokanu:
Are you sure you can differentiate between Pakistani and indians regarding these gas station and Taxi jobs?

Yep. I for whatever reason strike up random conversations a lot when in cabs. Plus Sikhs are easy to identify, and to my knowledge all of them are from India (no such thing as a Pakistani Sikh, I think).

So the point I am making is, If you are not poor like abject poor in America, your chances of going to college increases

But here is Texas the Indians are like tops among immigrants in terms of education and earning power.

Almost in every college. Top programs in Science, Finance, Healthcare are dominated by Indians in large numbers

I went for the High sch grad of a Niece at a very top school in Dallas (Texas academy of maths and Science) of like 120 graduating students almost 70 are Indians, 30 Chinese 7 blacks (of which 4 are Nigerians)

In top Engineering, Medicine Sciences and other course in colleges too, the ratio is similar to the above

TAMS? Yeah, amazing school...I know some folks who went there. We were considering having my sister apply there too. But she got into somewhere else for high school that was closer and a better fit.

TAMS is also kind of annoying in that you can only do your last 2 years there iirc?

Anyway yeah, Indians are pretty good, have a lot of talented people.

Nebeuwa:

LOL @ the "fit in" part. I already know what you mean by that unfortunately. But can you blame many of our brothers and sisters? Their culture is the dominant culture amongst the black community in the United States, but that is another subject altogether.

Well, there is the option of taking the "Huxtable" route rather than the ghetto route. You can choose which way you want to fit in, lol

Dede1:


This is a yawn from another confused fellow. I know many Nigerians who earned degrees of any strata yet their parents were peasant farmers or market women that never saw four walls of elementary school. In the neck of my woods, it borders on individual determination to achieve laurels in academic despite the wicked presence of poverty.

The "I don't know, I don't care" syndrome. Ignorance is not bliss, you overgrown Okoro bushbaby.

Just ask Dayo to explain his post in the simplest of term for you to better understand.

dayokanu: I agree with Ekt bear

I think most Nigerians who come to the US are middle class at the minimum.

First most of them are literate hence their ability to pass a visa interview. Almost all of them have at least a high School and some higher education maybe Technical college or Nursing school.

And a significant part of them have college degrees.

What percentages of Nigerians in Nigeria have college degrees vs Nigerians in Diaspora that have a college degree

[size=14pt]How many times do you see ppl of the caliber of Market women, labourers or Almajiris get visas to go to the US[/size]

By extension children tend to achieve at least what their parents achieve educationally. If your parents have High school degrees, Its almost impossible for you not to have a High school degree or more

Ekt, I think this point holds for Indians too or are they classified with Asians? I believe if Indians are taken separately they would be higher than Nigerians cos Hardly do you see Indians doing menial jobs and most white collar professions they form a huge part of the foreign quota e.g medicine, Finance, IT(>>60%), Pharmacy.

Not common to find an indian flipping burgers or sweeping the road

I disagree with the bolded part. Most of the Nigerians in the UK are from the class I bolded in your post - and their children are well educated over here. I guess Nigerians in America are different from the ones over here.

fstranger: So you are saying that the admissions standards of Ife/Ibadan/etc were low in the 50s, 60s, and 70s, and thus the population of those who got in wasn't at a high percentile?

So then what percentile would you put them at relative to the Nigerian population?

Clearly they are above 50%. How much higher would you ballpark it at?

Do we have statistics on say:

a) entrance exams for those universities
b) high school leaving exams for Nigeria as a whole
c) average of those who gained entry to university

from the 50s, 60s, 70s?

That would be help in figuring out how much above average those early Nigerian college students were.

bittyend:

I disagree with the bolded part. Most of the Nigerians in the UK are from the class I bolded in your post - and their children are well educated over here. I guess Nigerians in America are different from the ones over here.

How did they get visa to the UK?

I'm kind of surprised.

Hrm, but perhaps I shouldn't be.

So if what you are saying is true, then it is fairly unlikely for Nigerians to be the most educated in the UK..

ekt_bear:

How did they get visa to the UK?

I'm kind of surprised.

Hrm, but perhaps I shouldn't be.

So if what you are saying is true, then it is fairly unlikely for Nigerians to be the most educated in the UK..

Most of them came here in the 80s, when it was visa free - and probably travel agents. But that doesn't negate the fact that Nigerians are still the most educated black people out here. I can't really give the statistics for all the races in general, but I know we dominate when it comes to blacks.

I dunno about Nigerians being the most educated blacks. I've seen some of those African literacy rates country by country and some of those countries blow Nigeria out of the water.

Then again if you cut out northern nigeria and only focused on the southern part, probably the case becomes better.

Jamaica, Trinidad and Tobago and some of those other countries are pretty educated...probably more educated than Nigeria.

African Americans probably are more educated on average than Nigerians too...well, I'd be surprised if they weren't, let's put it that way.

I think there could possibly be an age disparity in the types of responses in this thread.

Those of us who were born in the 80s; many of our parents were able to get a college degree during the late 70s and early 80s. I cannot say the same for those who were born in the 60s or 70s whose parents were "peasants." I really hate that term by the way.

ekt_bear: I dunno about Nigerians being the most educated blacks. I've seen some of those African literacy rates country by country and some of those countries blow Nigeria out of the water.

Then again if you cut out northern nigeria and only focused on the southern part, probably the case becomes better.

Jamaica, Trinidad and Tobago and some of those other countries are pretty educated...probably more educated than Nigeria.

African Americans probably are more educated on average than Nigerians too...well, I'd be surprised if they weren't, let's put it that way.

It depends on what you're basing your assumptions on. Out here in the UK, Nigerians dominate all the University - when it comes to black population. You don't to take my words for it - a visit will definitely change your assumptions.

I would say Ghanaians are a distant second.

ekt_bear: I dunno about Nigerians being the most educated blacks. I've seen some of those African literacy rates country by country and some of those countries blow Nigeria out of the water.

Then again if you cut out northern nigeria and only focused on the southern part, probably the case becomes better.

Jamaica, Trinidad and Tobago and some of those other countries are pretty educated...probably more educated than Nigeria.

African Americans probably are more educated on average than Nigerians too...well, I'd be surprised if they weren't, let's put it that way.

In the professional school that I currently go to, the majority of the blacks (there not many) at my university are of Caribbean descent. This is followed by the Africans (Nigerians, Ghanaians and Ethiopians), then you have African Americans which are small in number.

I know for a fact that Trinidadians value education and have high literacy rates, because my fiance is from that country and I have seen how her family puts an emphasis on higher education.

Ileke-IdI:


The "I don't know, I don't care" syndrome. Ignorance is not bliss, you overgrown Okoro bushbaby.

Just ask Dayo to explain his post in the simplest of term for you to better understand.

How is bottom?

Anyway, Dayolodo and Ekiti Ikebe are trolls who believed this rubbish “I think most Nigerians who come to the US are middle class at the minimum” to be true. It is either you are drunk or malnourished to the point of confusion. Where did fools such as you and Dayolodo get the whiff of middle class strata in Nigeria?