Goshen360:

Why are you guys like coming on me. When I made that statement, Ijawkid said he agreed Jesus is divine and God. Hence, I made the statement. What we are saying here is that some people here are saying Jesus is the same person of the Trinity Yahweh. They are saying, Jesus is the same as Yahweh. Besides, I have told you times without number, I believe in Trinity. I believe Jesus is God, The Father is God and the Holy Spirit is God. I have said this times without number even on your own thread in some places in the past. What we are saying here is Is Jesus the same person in the Trinity referred to as the Father? This is what some people are interpreting the Trinity to mean.

no! Yahweh isnt the name of the fada only but the Godhead in general, o.k if the father is the only1 bearing yahweh, what does the son and spirit bear? And ijawkid's argument is that the son is lesser than the fada and that they are different in essence. He is sayin Jesus is a lesser god and not God and i see u even tink its the fada only that bears yahweh, well just ansa my questn above.
P.s Jesus only started bearing that name when he came in flesh.

haibe:
no! Yahweh isnt the name of the fada only but the Godhead in general, o.k if the father is the only1 bearing yahweh, what does the son and spirit bear? And ijawkid's argument is that the son is lesser than the fada and that they are different in essence. He is sayin Jesus is a lesser god and not God and i see u even tink its the fada only that bears yahweh, well just ansa my questn above. P.s Jesus only started bearing that name when he came in flesh.

Now I see where all the confusion is coming from. You just said Yahweh is NOT the name of the Father only. I believe otherwise that the Father alone bears Yahweh as a personal name in the Godhead. Jesus and the Holy Spirit also has MANY NAMES aside being called Jesus Christ and Holy Spirit. I can pull many names of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit each. This is where I "think" the confusion is coming from. You might need to explain yourself HOW ALL THE THREE PERSON IN THE GODHEAD INCLUDING THE HOLY SPIRIT BEARS YAHWEH. I await your explanation on that please.

@goshen there isn't much to explain here
1. Yahweh is a tri-Personal Being, eternally
existing as the Father, the Son and the Holy
Spirit.
2. In Trinitarian understanding the Father, the
Son and the Holy Spirit can be identified as
Yahweh either individually or collectively,
since all three are God fully and eternally. To
break this down further note that:
a. All three Divine Persons can be identified
as Yahweh God collectively.
b. Each specific Person can be identified as
Yahweh. For example, the Father can be
identified as Yahweh apart from the other
members of the Godhead without this
implying that the Son and the Spirit are
not Yahweh as well. The same is true in the
case of the Son or the Spirit, i.e. either one
can be addressed as Yahweh apart from
the other members without this meaning
that the rest are not Yahweh God just like as you call Jesus God separately without the father and vice-versa. The father is also called God separately without the son, same with the Spirit.
3. Since there are three distinct Persons of
God one Person can become the Servant of
the Other without that Person ceasing to be
God. That's the understanding you need to have, because the Son comes in flesh doesn't stop him from being Yahweh(God)
4. One of the Divine members of the Trinity
became the Servant of another Divine
member, i.e. the Father sent the Son to be his
Servant without this implying that the Son is
not Yahweh or that the Son became his own
Servant.
In conclusion i think you just need to understand that Yahweh is not one person but three persons, to say Yahweh(God) is one person(the Father) is to conclude that the Son is not God and neither is the Holy spirit.
God bless.

Genesis 1:1, God created. Is this God plural or singular? If plural, how many? It's Moses, not Emperor Constantine, that wrote this, as mischievous people are suggesting. Elohim, the Hebrew word for God, is in the plural, but this plurality is defined in Deuternomy 6:4 as one God. Let the liars just repent from distorting the Word of God.

@ckkris, what is your point?

ckkris: Genesis 1:1, God created. Is this God plural or singular? If plural, how many? It's Moses, not Emperor Constantine, that wrote this, as mischievous people are suggesting. Elohim, the Hebrew word for God, is in the plural, but this plurality is defined in Deuternomy 6:4 as one God. Let the liars just repent from distorting the Word of God.

Context is d issue.........

Again context shuld tell us if its plural or not....

ELOHIM is used to refer to judges, pagan gods,angels,Yahweh,Jesus, even powerful humans.....

Context my bro is d koko.......

haibe: @goshen there isn't much to explain here
1. Yahweh is a tri-Personal Being, eternally
existing as the Father, the Son and the Holy
Spirit.
2. In Trinitarian understanding the Father, the
Son and the Holy Spirit can be identified as
Yahweh either individually or collectively,
since all three are God fully and eternally. To
break this down further note that:
a. All three Divine Persons can be identified
as Yahweh God collectively.
b. Each specific Person can be identified as
Yahweh. For example, the Father can be
identified as Yahweh apart from the other
members of the Godhead without this
implying that the Son and the Spirit are
not Yahweh as well. The same is true in the
case of the Son or the Spirit, i.e. either one
can be addressed as Yahweh apart from
the other members without this meaning
that the rest are not Yahweh God just like as you call Jesus God separately without the father and vice-versa. The father is also called God separately without the son, same with the Spirit.
3. Since there are three distinct Persons of
God one Person can become the Servant of
the Other without that Person ceasing to be
God. That's the understanding you need to have, because the Son comes in flesh doesn't stop him from being Yahweh(God)
4. One of the Divine members of the Trinity
became the Servant of another Divine
member, i.e. the Father sent the Son to be his
Servant without this implying that the Son is
not Yahweh or that the Son became his own
Servant.
In conclusion i think you just need to understand that Yahweh is not one person but three persons, to say Yahweh(God) is one person(the Father) is to conclude that the Son is not God and neither is the Holy spirit.
God bless.

Why is Jesus always d servant??

Ur brain hasn't thought of that yet??lol

Why can't they rotate who shuld be sent and who shuld be d sender??

Why does Jesus always accept d subordinate role??is it that Jesus is more humble than his Father....

Now I know that d trinity doctrine has indeed made its apologists sick in d head....





Ur explanation is just so spurious and full of confusion...

Just simply call Yahweh or Jesus NOOB SAIBOT or just tell us u believe in d MODALISM doctrine and let's all leave this post.....


This your explanation will just drive many into not even believing in God anymore...

ijawkid:

Why is Jesus always d servant??

Ur brain hasn't thought of that yet??lol

Why can't they rotate who shuld be sent and who shuld be d sender??

Why does Jesus always accept d subordinate role??is it that Jesus is more humble than his Father....

Now I know that d trinity doctrine has indeed made its apologists sick in d head....





Ur explanation is just so spurious and full of confusion...

Just simply call Yahweh or Jesus NOOB SAIBOT or just tell us u believe in d MODALISM doctrine and let's all leave this post.....


This your explanation will just drive many into not even believing in God anymore...

Lol what kind of question is this "Why is Jesus always the servant"
First answer this questions: why is your eyes always the seer, why is your nose always the smeller, why is your leg always the walker?

Ijawkid,
What is the singular form of Elohim? Deuteronomy 6:4 defines Jehovah as one God, in the plural form Elohim, but in other Scriptures the singular form is used to define other gods. Notice that the singular form is never used in defining Jehovah.

haibe,
Please understand that right from Genesis 1:1, the Hebrew word for God is Elohim, a plural, not in the singular form. And in order to separate this plural form from any kind of polytheism, Deuteronomy 6:4 explained that this plural name is one God. Is this difficult to follow?

[/quote]

ckkris: haibe,
Please understand that right from Genesis 1:1, the Hebrew word for God is Elohim, a plural, not in the singular form. And in order to separate this plural form from any kind of polytheism, Deuteronomy 6:4 explained that this plural name is one God. Is this difficult to follow?

[/quote]
Ok its not difficult to follow

Its important Ijawkid and co stop lying that Emperor Constantine introduced trinity. Trinity is in every page of the Bible from Genesis to Revelation. JESUS IS LORD.

haibe:

Lol what kind of question is this "Why is Jesus always the servant"
First answer this questions: why is your eyes always the seer, why is your nose always the smeller, why is your leg always the walker?

@ least my eyes is not d same as my nose...they are 2 different ,distinct organs...


But u won't agree that Jesus is seperate and distinct from d Father...

So find another illustration...

Ur illustration doesn't fit d matter been discussed.......

If Yahweh is always d head and Jesus d slave,high priest,mediator,son,prince(subordinate) does it nt boil down to d fact that d Father is greater than the son??

Abi our eye dey pain us not to see am??

Council of nicea has really done sometin to the whole of christendom......

I feel and I know u believe in modalism,the parent of the trinity dogma...

All pagan inclined....

ckkris: haibe,
Please understand that right from Genesis 1:1, the Hebrew word for God is Elohim, a plural, not in the singular form. And in order to separate this plural form from any kind of polytheism, Deuteronomy 6:4 explained that this plural name is one God. Is this difficult to follow?

Now d truth is that elohim in genesis 1;1 could comprise of Yahweh,Jesus and d angels..

There didn't mention how many powerful persons where present...

Remember I had earlier defined what elohim means and how it shuld be applied......

The context shuld determine what God and how many powerful supernatural being is been mentioned.....


I had earlier posted this ELOHIM issue here...

Let me get it back...

@chris....

Please see that even angels are called ELOHIM.......

Like I said context always must matter...

Look up these scripture....

See how it was written in hebrews and was applied on Jesus.....

Psalm 8:5 -
Hebrew:
וַתְּחַסְּרֵ֣הוּ מְּ֭עַט מֵאֱלֹהִ֑ים
Interlinear:
And you-made-lower him little than gods
Septuagint:
ἠλάττωσας αὐτὸν βραχύ τι παρʼ ἀγγέλους
Interlinear:
You-made-less him little some than angels
Translation:
You made him a little lower than the angels
KJV: For thou hast made him a little lower
than the angels
NIV: You made him a little lower than the
heavenly beings
ESV: Yet you have made him a little lower than
the heavenly beings* (footnote: Or, than God;
Septuagint, than the angels)
AB: Yet You have made him but a little lower
than God [or heavenly beings]
CEV: You made us a little lower than you
yourself* (footnote: you yourself: Or " the
angels" or " the beings in heaven."
NLT: Yet you made them only a little lower
than God* (footnote: Or, Yet you made them
only a little lower than the angels; Hebrew
reads Yet you made him [i.e., man] a little
lower than Elohim)
Tanakh, The Holy Scriptures: You have made
him little less than divine* (footnote: Or, "the
angels"
NJB: Yet you have made him little less than a
god
NAB: You made him for a little while lower
than the angels* (footnote: Little less than a
god: Hebrew ‘elohim, the ordinary word for
“God” or “the gods” or members of the
heavenly court.

Ijawkid,
In Daniel, Jehovah is addressed as God of gods, or Elohim of elohim, bearing in mind that The Shema, Deuteronomy 6:4, had defined The LORD GOD, Elohim, as one that is in plural. All Israel understood that, and so must Christians that believe in and worship The LORD God of Israel, who has never been defined in the singular form as other gods, by Isaiah. God is His own interpreter, has made it plain.

ckkris: Ijawkid,
In Daniel, Jehovah is addressed as God of gods, or Elohim of elohim, bearing in mind that The Shema, Deuteronomy 6:4, had defined The LORD GOD, Elohim, as one that is in plural. All Israel understood that, and so must Christians that believe in and worship The LORD God of Israel, who has never been defined in the singular form as other gods, by Isaiah. God is His own interpreter, has made it plain.

So what's ya point bro??

Like I have always said ""GOD"",""ELOHIM"" is not d name of anybody,it can apply to many persons ...

That is why God gave moses his personal name ...

He wasn't senseless to had done that.......

Nobody shares Yahwehs name with him......

It is his personal distinct name....

The TANAKH consistently identifies Jehovah as God in plural, and other gods in singular and plural forms. The TANAKH never referred to Jehovah as God in the singular. Genesis 1:27 identifies God in plural and described Him as 'He', and mankind as 'they'. Only an atheist Israelite would ever consider Jehovah in the singular form.

Ijawkid,
My point is simple. The Bible is the best book on earth, and as this Bible reveals God in plural form of ONE PERSON, I accept it. In the history of mankind there's no other God as good as Jehovah Elohim, The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel. And it's in His trinity that He LEGALLY conquers all other gods put together. And that LEGALITY is very important. The Apostle Paul, that inimitable erudite scholar of The TANAKH, explained that the princes of this world couldn't understand, lest they would not have crucified the Prince of glory. Millions hold this simple understanding around the world, and there's nothing you and your sponsors can do to confuse them, not to talk of stopping them from worshipping The only True God, that purchased them with His own Blood. JESUS IS LORD.

ckkris: Ijawkid,
My point is simple. The Bible is the best book on earth, and as this Bible reveals God in plural form of ONE PERSON, I accept it. In the history of mankind there's no other God as good as Jehovah Elohim, The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel. And it's in His trinity that He LEGALLY conquers all other gods put together. And that LEGALITY is very important. The Apostle Paul, that inimitable erudite scholar of The TANAKH, explained that the princes of this world couldn't understand, lest they would not have crucified the Prince of glory. Millions hold this simple understanding around the world, and there's nothing you and your sponsors can do to confuse them, not to talk of stopping them from worshipping The only True God, that purchased them with His own Blood. JESUS IS LORD.

Na wa for this trinity doctrine.....

U are tryin to use d word ELOHIM now to prove d trinity abi??

Oboy Elohim doesn't meanr 3 gods or 3 persons...

If we wanna take Elohim the way it is then we can assume more than 3 Gods....

Its d trinity that has made u concluded that its d trinity that is been implied...


Now no evidence for that......

Elohim doesn't have any definite number of gods or mighty persons attached to it.....

I culd include angels or mary too the mother of God according what some say......

My point??

U can't keep thinking that when u call Yahweh. Or worship Yahweh,then ur worshipping d trinity....

That's un heard of.......

Context like I will forever tell u shuild determine when that Elohim applies in d singular form or in d plural form....

If not we can equate the angels and satan with God...

Because the bible calls them Elohim too.......

Elohim is not tied up to a trinity(3 gods) the way u guys have pre-sumed it to be......

I'm coming up with 1 very good explanation to this elohim issue...

Ijawkid,
From Elohim, the plural term for The One True God, to the Acts of the Apostles, where they simply baptised in the name of Jesus, instead of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Your research must be as simple as Moses, Isaiah, Paul, etc, and not one isolated verse. The written Bible is talking about Jesus, from Genesis to Revelation, especially in the Revelation where trinity is seen on one throne in chapter 5.

ckkris: Ijawkid,
From Elohim, the plural term for The One True God, to the Acts of the Apostles, where they simply baptised in the name of Jesus, instead of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Your research must be as simple as Moses, Isaiah, Paul, etc, and not one isolated verse. The written Bible is talking about Jesus, from Genesis to Revelation, especially in the Revelation where trinity is seen on one throne in chapter 5.

Taaa......which trinity??

This explanation u gave how do u tink Jesus wuld have answered it...

Let us see Jesus reply @ mark 12:29-31....

My point frm that scripture is Jesus shuld have just told his listeners that he was part of a trinity ,but he himself read from deuteronomy to show there is a distinct most high....

Jesus affirmsative answer shows that Yahweh is an exclusive distinct person that is God of all.....

If u were Jesus I know u'll start explaining elohim to mean 3....

Infact if u were Jesus I knw u wuld have attached d council of niceas decree and told d pharisees that he is a 3 in 1 figurem.....Jesus gave d straight and right answer.......

But trinitarians will struggle to give d opposite....

Ijawkid,
Do you really believe you'll be able to come up with anything that can destroy Jesus of Nazareth? People have tried more than that in previous generations, and ended up highlighting the divinity of Jesus, by forcing His contented disciples to search the Scriptures. The Scriptures we've already discussed, from Genesis to Revelation, are more than sufficient to convince any unbiased human being, to pay more attention to what Jesus is gently whispering in the innermost core of the soul. It's not necessary to cite all the Scriptures, but they will be cited if that's what you want. Remember that millions of people, of all races and all classes, are satisfied with far less than what has been discussed in this thread. But we persuade men. It's our mandate, and we're well-equipped for this.

John 5:30
I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just;
because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

SMH. As I read through the various write-ups I see so much confusion in Christianity.

My simple take is as follows:
OP asked the question - Is Jesus Christ the same as God Almighty?
Simple answer is no. They are two different entities yet "one" in unity of purpose, function, goals and doing.
Honestly this trinity doctrine has brought much more confusion than explain/clarify things.

Fr0sbel: God the Father and Jesus Christ are ONE and the SAME.

Isaiah 9:6 - "For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."

1. Child is Born - Jesus
2. Called a SON - The SON of GOD
3. Government ( universal ) will be on His shoulders

4. He will be called :

a)Wonderful Counsellor

b)Mighty God

c)Everlasting Father

d)Prince of Peace.



Case closed !!

Please let us take ovr time to read through this. You just opened another chapter. In the earlier prints of the Bible,there was never that verse which states 'there are 3 that bear witness in Heaven, the father,son and the holy ghost'. The word 'Trinity' actually has outlived Christiandom and even before advent of Christianity at Anthioc in Presidea. Trinity is an Interpolition. Dont let us see this as anti-religion but as a forum to learn from and remember that Jesus even said that on that day they will come unto me that in thy name we did this and that but he will tell them that depart from me Oh yea that walk in iniquity. Let us know that Christianity itself never existed during the life of Jesus christ and his name 'Christ' comes from the Hebrew word 'Christus' and Jesus is his English name from the Jewish name 'Esau'. In so many parts of the Bible Jesus categorically that he was sent as a Prophet. After he raised Lazarus from death,he raised his into heaven and said 'so that they may know that thou has sent me'. Please, let us make our believe firm in God so that all these confusions will be laid to rest and also some of these confusions and blames will rest on the shoulders of the writers of the Bible and the uncontrolled proliferation of the versions with the use and change of words of the Bible.A lot of words were changed from the original text during the translation in order to suit the flock of sheep under their shepherd. Sometimes when going through the so called 'Gospel according to ' some of the disciples, I found out that some were written by them but centuries after them and some were even words of mouth as it has been heard from one generation to another. Please,try to read the beginning of these Gospels and we will see for ourselves and dont let us be decieved that it is because we are not in the spirit we can not understand the translation. Is it not some of our so called 'Great men of God' are involved in money laundering,lawsuits, skyrocket tuition fees out of the reach of their milked sheep,political affliates leaving us the masres to leak our wounds with most of them jetting out oe the country in private jets. We aqe all guilty in one way or the other,including the writer of this 'Epistle' of mine. And I want us to know uhat we are so engulf in 'idolising our men of God and if one has seen far and near and let our tenet be God then you will know that he enough for us and adhere to the teaching of his prophets. Going through the news everyday, I see killings and pictures of innocent souls. The prophet of Islam never fought until when he was moved to the wall by the Meccans.According to tn Mahatnan Gandhi while speaking about the prophet of Islam, he said that I now believe that the religion of Islam was not spread by the sword but his steadfastness in God and in his simplicity of life. What do we see today, this is not Islan but Politics. Please, let us insteel our faith in God, adhere striculy to the teaching from his prophets and eschew this materialism and hatred that have eating deep into us. Whatever happens to us at the end of the day will be justiviable. Thank you.

^^^
Please learn to write in paragraphs. I had hard time reading your comments and so will others also have hard time reading your comment. Thank you.

Goshen360: ^^^
Please learn to write in paragraphs. I had hard time reading your comments and so will others also have hard time reading your comment. Thank you.

. Thanks. And just want to tell you that am using a phone and it does lack the luxury which most computer or new generation phones are found of. Sincerely appreciate your observation.

John 8:16
And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.

Image123:

what's the image of god that you have. ?

Anyone, less the image of a god hanging from a pole naked, publicly humiliated, crying, begging and recriminating his father left him.
That's not a god ...

Luke 23:46
And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said,
Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit:
and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

Do you notice the way christians tender arguments like "Jesus is the Word and the word is God" or "Christ (who assumedly knew he would rise again) SACRIFICED his life for our sins?

Seriously you guys are nuts! Thats the only explanation for being able to speak insanity so freely!