^
Why? You wan answer and run away after Q10 abi. Bros, Abeg cool down. You will finish what you started in Jesus Name.

Image is fond of picking and choosing verses and misinterpreting them to suit his view - he did it with Matthew 23, as well as 2 Chronicles 31, all in an attempt to prove that 'all' refers to more than animals and crops.

Thanks for pointing out another example of wrongly dividing of scripture.

Goshen360: ^
Why? You wan answer and run away after Q10 abi. Bros, Abeg cool down. You will finish what you started in Jesus Name.

I have done twenty seven pages with you guys already. We have an agreement, remember?

@ Image123,

Q.10

(a) Do we have example(s) of people tithing from their "income" in the bible?

(b) How and Where does the bible defined the "church" as the "storehouse"?

(c) How does "storehouse" in Malachi translate or correspond with tithe giving of Abram to Melchizedek in Gen. 14?

(d) Is Melchizedek in Gen. 14 a "Storehouse" where modern tithe is taken to?

Q.10

(a) Do we have example(s) of people tithing from their "income" in the bible?

Yes. Income is simply your profit, earning, gain, harvest.
(GNB) I fast two days a week, and I give you one tenth of all my income.'
(ISV) I fast twice a week, and I give a tenth of my entire income.'
(Darby) I fast twice in the week, I tithe everything I gain.
Luke 18v12

(b) How and Where does the bible defined the "church" as the "storehouse"?

i did not mention that the Bible defined the church as the store house.

(c) How does "storehouse" in Malachi translate or correspond with tithe giving of Abram to Melchizedek in Gen. 14?

i don't know, you may know since you are bringing it up. What i do know is that a tithe is a tenth, whether it's in Genesis or Malachi or Matthew or Revelation. It's that simple for everyone to understand.

(d) Is Melchizedek in Gen. 14 a "Storehouse" where modern tithe is taken to?

Your questions are very much irrelevant to our discussions. i don't understand or know what you are talking about. We give our tithes and offerings to God. God accepts them through the spiritual leaders He has given to us.

Still waiting for you to show me WHERE THE OTHER ITEMS (i.e. those that make up your assertion that it was NOT AGRIC PRODUCE) were COMMANDED AS TITHE. History does NOT SUPPORT YOUR NEW ASSERTION. If anyone had chosen to tithe other items, IT WOULD BE OF THEIR OWN VOLITION not as per command of the Lord. You cant make that as law for Christians. God's commanded tithe was from the produce of the land of Israel. That is the LETTER. Now if you (@Image)want to deviate from the letter, that's all well and good as YOU WERE NOT DESIGNED TO BE ABLE TO MEET THE LETTER ab initio (from the get go/from the beginning).

There is no place in the Bible that commands that tithes must be ONLY of agric produce, you are getting it twisted.

Stop trying to give uninformed people the IMPRESSION THAT ALL ISREALITES TITHED. A lot were EXEMPT and WERE NOT CONSIDERED ROBBERS OR CURSED neither were they constantly afraid of the DEVOURER. In fact THEY WERE AS BLESSED AS THOSE WHO had Land and tithed.

Mal 3:8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
Mal 3:9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.

This is a blatant lie - even as far back as the time of Solomon, wealth was measured in silver and gold, as well as animals. No matter how you twist it - the biblical tithe was animals and crops, and nothing to do with the so called ‘agrarian economy’. The very same passage where crops and animals are mentioned, shekels (or money) were mentioned as the way to redeem a vow, even for the so called common man - if God wanted to tell the Israelites to tithe money he would have done so.

As is getting customary of you, you have simply chosen to believe a lie, pick and choose on my posts and try to catch me in my words. i said the world economy was largely agrarian,. . . .but it was not a measure of wealth for the common man, as to ask them to tithe of it AS of their consistent increase. i've not stated or tried to hide that shekels did not exist. i said it was not a primary or consistent source of income/increase for the common man. BTW, King Solomon was not a common man.The query you need to ask yourself is, was the world's economy larely agrarian or that's tosh indeed?

We can even talk about the parable of the talents - which could have been put in a bank to earn interest, yet you keep making futile attempts with this agrarian tosh.

Do not impute your own ideas into the bible - they do not stand up to scrutiny.

iguess you do not know the meaning of the word 'scrutiny'. i already said on this thread that money as existed in different forms in history, and that the basic form of measuring wealth had to do with agriculture. i though this was common bible knowledge, but seeing you are ignorant on these lines, i will quote a few scriptures that show that. These are not my ideas, they are clearly written in scripture. Perhaps you don't see it because you are too lazy to read it.

2Sa 12:1 And the LORD sent Nathan unto David. And he came unto him, and said unto him, There were two men in one city; the one rich, and the other poor.
2Sa 12:2 The rich man had exceeding many flocks and herds:


Gen 26:12 Then Isaac sowed in that land, and received in the same year a hundredfold: and the LORD blessed him.
Gen 26:13 And the man w[b]axed great[/b], and went forward, and grew until he became very great:
Gen 26:14 For he had possession of flocks, and possession of herds, and great store of servants: and the Philistines envied him.


Gen 12:16 And he entreated Abram well for her sake: and he had sheep, and oxen, and he asses, and menservants, and maidservants, and she asses, and camels.

Gen 30:43 And the man increased exceedingly, and had much cattle, and maidservants, and menservants, and camels, and asses.

Gen 36:7 For their riches were more than that they might dwell together; and the land wherein they were strangers could not bear them because of their cattle.

Gen 39:5 And it came to pass from the time that he had made him overseer in his house, and over all that he had, that the LORD blessed the Egyptian's house for Joseph's sake; and the blessing of the LORD was upon all that he had in the house, and in the field.

Deu 28:3 Blessed shalt thou be in the city, and blessed shalt thou be in the field.
Deu 28:4 Blessed shall be the fruit of thy body, and the fruit of thy ground, and the fruit of thy cattle, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep.
Deu 28:5 Blessed shall be thy[b] basket and thy store[/b].

Rth 2:1 And Naomi had a kinsman of her husband's, a mighty man of wealth, of the family of Elimelech; and his name was Boaz.
Rth 2:3 And she went, and came, and gleaned in the field after the reapers: and her hap was to light on a part of the field belonging unto Boaz, who was of the kindred of Elimelech.

1Sa 25:2 And there was a man in Maon, whose possessions were in Carmel; and the man was very great, and he had three thousand sheep, and a thousand goats: and he was shearing his sheep in Carmel.

Ecclesiastes 2:7 I got me servants and maidens, and had servants born in my house; also I had great possessions of great and small cattle above all that were in Jerusalem before me:

Job 1:3 His substance also was seven thousand sheep, and three thousand camels, and five hundred yoke of oxen, and five hundred she asses, and a very great household; so that this man was the greatest of all the men of the east.

2Ch 32:29 Moreover he provided him cities, and possessions of flocks and herds in abundance: for God had given him substance very much.

Luk 12:16 And he spake a parable unto them, saying, The ground of a certain rich man brought forth plentifully:
Luk 12:18 And he said, This will I do: I will pull down my barns, and build greater; and there will I bestow all my fruits and my goods.


Luk 16:1 And he said also unto his disciples, There was a certain rich man, which had a steward; and the same was accused unto him that he had wasted his goods.
Luk 16:5 So he called every one of his lord's debtors unto him, and said unto the first, how much owest thou unto my lord?
Luk 16:6 And he said, A hundred measures of oil. And he said unto him, Take thy bill, and sit down quickly, and write fifty.
Luk 16:7 Then said he to another, And how much owest thou? And he said, A[b] hundred measures of wheat[/b]. And he said unto him, Take thy bill, and write fourscore.

The verses above from the OT and the NT simply show that wealth was unmistakably connected to owning of crops and animals. Whatever else you had didn't really matter as owning cattle, sheep and co. The blessing and the blessed was in the abundance of animals and crops. How one would sincerely come up and call this tosh or my idea is surprising.

The NT church did not preach tithing as the most consistent form of giving, yet people’s needs were met. The bible does not label giving tithes as the most consistent way of giving - this is another human idea by yourself. The teaching is giving according to the need.

Do you know the meaning of 'consistent'? Tithing is the most consistent i know of, you can enlighten us if there are others.

So why not adopt their approach? Why should I listen to the likes of you who peddle tithing and not the practice of the first century church?

Unobviously, because their approach was not sustainable. God did not command them to go and sell their properties, Have you followed your GREAT examples in selling off your properties? iguess not. God commanded to go and preach the gospel to every creature. They stayed in Jerusalem selling their properties and distributing. It led to problems, as Ananias and Saphirra's, then the Grecian murmurings. And when economic problems came on the region, Jerusalem believers suffered it the most.
Act 11:29 Then the disciples, every man according to his ability, determined to send relief unto the brethren which dwelt in Judea:
They became the 'poor saints' as time went on.
Rom 15:26 For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem.

All these things are written for our example, and for our learning. Father Christmas lifestyle will only meet needs for a while, it's not a good model to follow.

Are you a Jew? Why should I as a Gentile Christian behave like a Jew? Before you know it, Image will be saying we must be circumcised in addition to giving tithes, after all he is ‘following’ Abraham’s example. A little leaven ruins everything.

Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

@Image

Image123:
There is no place in the Bible that commands that tithes must be ONLY of agric produce, you are getting it twisted.

My bro, the SCRIPTURES YOU GAVE to show tithes as COMMANDED by God TO THE ISRAELITES on Mount Sinai WERE NOT JUST AGRIC PRODUCE are:

A. Num 18:21

“I give to the Levites all the tithes in Israel as their inheritance in return for the work they do while serving at the tent of meeting

My answer:

@Image, to show you it was AGRIC PRODUCE, all YOU have to do is read a few verses down & see the following:

- Num 18

24 Instead, I give to the Levites as their inheritance the tithes that the Israelites present as an offering to the Lord.
25 The Lord said to Moses,
26 “Speak to the Levites and say to them: ‘When you receive from the Israelites the tithe I give you as your inheritance, you must present a tenth of that tithe as the Lord’s offering. 27 Your offering will be reckoned to you as grain from the threshing floor or juice from the winepress. 28 In this way you also will present an offering to the Lord from all the tithes you receive from the Israelites. From these tithes you must give the Lord’s portion to Aaron the priest. 29 You must present as the Lord’s portion the best and holiest part of everything given to you.’
30 “Say to the Levites: ‘When you present the best part, it will be reckoned to you as the product of the threshing floor or the winepress. 31 You and your households may EAT the rest of it anywhere, for it is your wages for your work at the tent of meeting.

B. 2 Chron 31: 5

And as soon as the commandment came abroad, the children of Israel brought in abundance the firstfruits of corn, wine, and oil, and honey, and of all the increase of the field; and the tithe of all things [/b]brought they in abundantly

My answer:

I already showed you where they were eaten in page 26 from 2 Chron 31:6-10(pls refer to it)

- They were set as [b]HEAPS and ATE from it, Azariah the chief priest even confirmed to HEZEKIAH that the HEAPS he saw were what was left after EATING

C. Luke 18:12

'I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get'

My answer:

So here we have the ONLY portion @Image can cling on to as EVIDENCE that GOD COMMANDED A TITHE OF items apart from AGRIC PRODUCE; i.e the PHARISEES EXAMPLE!

(I believe if he was as fastidious as described, his saying he 'tithed' would mean the agric produce AS COMMANDED in Lev 27:30,32,34; afterall we interprete scripture with scripture. The hearers as Israelites would know Num 18, 2 Chron 3, Mal 3 etc and their everyday practice had ALWAYS SHOWN Moses' tithe as agric produce to be eaten)

If YOU (@Image) BELIEVE he gave MORE items than agric produce as God commanded,

Let me ask you;

IS THE PHARISEE NOW GOD TO GIVE THAT AS A COMMANDMENT??
IS THE PHARISEE NOW GOD TO GIVE THAT AS A COMMANDMENT??

@Image

Image123:
Mal 3:8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
Mal 3:9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.

The above is your answer to my comment (START QUOTE Jem1)"Stop trying to give uninformed people the IMPRESSION THAT ALL ISREALITES TITHED. A lot were EXEMPT and WERE NOT CONSIDERED ROBBERS OR CURSED neither were they constantly afraid of the DEVOURER. In fact THEY WERE AS BLESSED AS THOSE WHO had Land and tithed"(END QUOTE Jem1)

The GOSPEL BIBLE according to @Image!!!

Even though Malachi 3 PROVES it was tithes according to Lev 27:30,32,34; YOU (inorder to fulfill your agenda) would BLATANTLY lie in your interpretation of "this whole nation"

You know that the tithes referred to regarding ROBBING GOD were as DEFINED IN Lev 27.

HOW do we know this? See the items highlighted in my quote of Malachi 3 below.

(God is NOT A MAN @Image. He did NOT CURSE those who never broke HIS COMMANDMENT. He never cursed WAGE earners etc, i.e. people who didn't have the food items referred to below! He was not unaware of their existence! He just CHOSE NOT TO ask them to tithe, deal with it bro!

Mal 3:8 “Will a mere mortal rob God? Yet you rob me.“But you ask, ‘How are we robbing you?’“In tithes and offerings. 9 You are under a curse —your whole nation—because you are robbing me. 10 Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food [/b]in my house. Test me in this,” says the Lord Almighty, “and see if I will not throw open the [b]floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that there will not be room enough to store it. 11 I will prevent pests from devouring your crops, and the vines in your fields will not drop their fruit before it is ripe, ” says the Lord Almighty.

According to your lie, "this whole nation who are ROBBING GOD" NOW means that the follwoing Israelites were commanded!

Obviously you (@Image) would have to include/replace in your (@Image) version:

Malachi 3:10 "Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food (wages, shekels, gold, diamonds etc)in my house";

BECAUSE ONLY THEN would the groups below be part of this "whole nation" which you are reading out of context.

- Hired Workers did NOT tithe their wages
- Fishermen did not tithe
- Miners and the minerals were not tithed
- Carpenters/Construction Workers
- Traders who made/sold jewellery
- Priests
- Israelites without land e.g. the poor would receive tithe NOT PAY TITHE

I know you would prefer to HAVE PEOPLE BELIEVE that ALL Israelites tithed BECAUSE if they DIDN'T it WOULD SHOW UP THE LIE where Pastors teach people that ALL CHRISTIANS MUST TITHE EVERY INCOME/INCREASE or else they (Christians)are ROBBERS!!

NOT every tenth (10%) was HOLY & BELONGED to God!!

If they Know that even the Israelites who were COMMANDED at Mount Sinai DIDNT HAVE TO TITHE EVERY INCOME, it puts paid to the lie that CHRISTIANS ARE ROBBERS IF THEY DONT TITHE EVERY INCREASE!

You know the groups above were not a part of this "whole nation" you are attempting to read OUT OF CONTEXT!

See more people below who DIDN'T HAVE TO TITHE

1. Those who's animals increased by less than 10! So if your animals increased by 6, you don't kill some so you can tithe. They didn't tithe at that point and WERE NOT ROBBERS
2. Those who were Gentiles (yes even gentile CHRISTIANS).

IT takes NOTHING from You to admit their practice in biblical times as confirmed by historical facts in the bible.

Image123:
Act 23:6 But when Paul perceived that the one part were Sadducees, and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee: of the hope and resurrection of the dead I am called in question.

Are you saying because Paul claimed to be the son of a pharisee, you also see yourself as the son of a pharisee? what exactly is the message here?

Image123:
i said the whole of scriptures ARE. ALL SCRIPTURE is given by inspiration of GOD. The golden calf passage IS ALSO THE WORD OD GOD. Any sane mature christian would know from that passage that God detests idol worship. Any other?

How does inspiration becomes a commandment? now you see why Kunle keep calling you 'olodo'

Image123:
I have done twenty seven pages with you guys already. We have an agreement, remember?

I have to admit never expected you'll go beyond 1 or 2 pages of posts, even though you echieved it by mis-interpreting/twisting the scriptures all the same you don try, for being bold enough to come out here and defend the fraud inspired pastoral definition of tithe your pastor will be proud

Image123:
i don't know, you may know since you are bringing it up. What i do know is that a tithe is a tenth, whether it's in Genesis or Malachi or Matthew or Revelation.

Not all the time sir. Tithe as a tenth was created by man, God did not say it will always be a tenth. If we follow God's definition of tithe (Leviticus), you find that that God's tithe is not always a tenth It ranges from zero to 10% with the possibility of increasing your total tithe cost to 12% when exercise the option to cash-in your tithe and pay additional penalty/fine of 2%. for example (edit: reference to Jem1 post above) the shepherd with an increase of 9 animals will pay zero tithe, one with an increase of let say 18 animals will submit one (about 6%) as tithe. If we decide to push it further, God's definition of 'annual tithe' will amount to a maximum of 20% (22% with penalty) and 30% every third year.

A self created/imposed obligation to render a tenth of your income to God via remittance to your pastor is not bad, what's bad is when the pastor preach this man made/defined ritual as God's instruction

Image123: Q.10

Yes. Income is simply your profit, earning, gain, harvest.
(GNB) I fast two days a week, and I give you one tenth of all my income.'
(ISV) I fast twice a week, and I give a tenth of my entire income.'
(Darby) I fast twice in the week, I tithe everything I gain.
Luke 18v12


i did not mention that the Bible defined the church as the store house.


i don't know, you may know since you are bringing it up. What i do know is that a tithe is a tenth, whether it's in Genesis or Malachi or Matthew or Revelation. It's that simple for everyone to understand.


Your questions are very much irrelevant to our discussions. i don't understand or know what you are talking about. We give our tithes and offerings to God. God accepts them through the spiritual leaders He has given to us.

Thank you Image123.

I will comment if need be or hopefully another time when we talk about tithe again. What I have seen with you and other tithe teachers so far is THE MIXTURE OF PRE-LAW TITHE AND LAW TITHE. When asked tough questions, you jump to pre-law and blend or mix your answers with the law tithing. You cannot give a standalone answer strictly on the pre-law tithe which you claim its basis of tithing. That is the area my questions are pointing to recently. I hope you re-visit this topic like someone advice you and less I forget, it's not about the money to tithe or not to tithe; it's about the twisted tithe teachings. When we test or prove ALL things concerning tithe, you will see that it does not and cannot stand alone (pre-law and law tithe) without mixing both together and I honestly believe the reason why tithe teachings should stop because we are still mixing law tithe with pre-law and hence such tithers are under curse as per Gal 3:10.

I pray the Lord help you understand this my brother.

Goshen360:

Thank you Image123.

I will comment if need be or hopefully another time when we talk about tithe again. What I have seen with you and other tithe teachers so far is THE MIXTURE OF PRE-LAW TITHE AND LAW TITHE. When asked tough questions, you jump to pre-law and blend or mix your answers with the law tithing. You cannot give a standalone answer strictly on the pre-law tithe which you claim its basis of tithing. That is the area my questions are pointing to recently. I hope you re-visit this topic like someone advice you and less I forget, it's not about the money to tithe or not to tithe; it's about the twisted tithe teachings. When we test or prove ALL things concerning tithe, you will see that it does not and cannot stand alone (pre-law and law tithe) without mixing both together and I honestly believe the reason why tithe teachings should stop because we are still mixing law tithe with pre-law and hence such tithers are under curse as per Gal 3:10.

I pray the Lord help you understand this my brother.

How they even attempt to use Abraham's one off example of pre law tithe to justify the scam preached today in the naming of tithing beats my imagination. I mean how do you arrive at tithing compulsorily from regular income based on Abraham's one off voluntary example that was not even from his income or assets? An example we were never asked to emulate. As christians we have only one role model and we all know who that is.

Anyway after going through this thread and seen the way Image has been consciously twisting scripture to justify his position I cannot but be convinced that he knows in his heart of hearts that it cannot be biblically justified for christians. That not withstanding becos of his low moral values and his desperation to protect a position [albeit very faulty position] he would rather assault and ridicule the very bible and gospel of christ he claims to believe in. It's a real shame the kind of 'christians' we have today.

PS: Anyone noticed that snowwy as long taken off due to the ridiculousness of defending that position based on the weight of biblical evidence established on this thread. Absolutely no way you can justify tithing in the church without twisting scriptures.

Image123:
As is getting customary of you, you have simply chosen to believe a lie, pick and choose on my posts and try to catch me in my words. i said the world economy was largely agrarian,. . . .but it was not a measure of wealth for the common man, as to ask them to tithe of it AS of their consistent increase.

As for you, you have chosen to create further lies - the common man could redeem his vows in money, could exchange the very tithes for money, so this tosh about a measure of wealth is irrelevant.

What is this ‘consistent’ increase idea you’re trying to create? Does the bible talk about ‘consistent’ increase or is this another one of your imagined ideas you are trying to stick in the bible?

i've not stated or tried to hide that shekels did not exist. i said it was not a primary or consistent source of income/increase for the common man. BTW, King Solomon was not a common man.The query you need to ask yourself is, was the world's economy larely agrarian or that's tosh indeed?

The agrarian nature of the economy has NOTHING to do with the commandment God gave. Your suggestion that it does/did is indeed unconsolidated tosh. The farmers who grew crops - what did they do with them? They SOLD them for money. If God was interested in MONEY as tithes, he would have said so - leave your road side economic history for someone else.

What about those that didn’t grow crops or have flocks?

The verses above from the OT and the NT simply show that wealth was unmistakably connected to owning of crops and animals.

This is not about what wealth was connected to - as wealth was also connected with slaves. If it was simply about what wealth was connected to, why didn’t God ask people to tithe slaves or the ‘increase’ in slaves from the slaves giving birth?

Whatever else you had didn't really matter as owning cattle, sheep and co. The blessing and the blessed was in the abundance of animals and crops. How one would sincerely come up and call this tosh or my idea is surprising.

It is tosh because you are saying ‘wealth’ was the focus - IT WASN’T. The focus was the increase God brought out of the HOLY LAND of ISRAEL and nothing else.

Do you know the meaning of 'consistent'? Tithing is the most consistent i know of, you can enlighten us if there are others.

Do you know how to read? I don’t care for your opinions on this - simply show where tithing is described as the ‘most consistent’ in the bible or give up.

Unobviously, because their approach was not sustainable. God did not command them to go and sell their properties,

No more than God did not command Christians to tithe - it’s an idea lost on people like you - self determination of giving, eschewing legalistic percentages.

Have you followed your GREAT examples in selling off your properties? iguess not.

Again you reflect your legalistic thinking that pays attention to the letter but misses the princile - everyone does not legalistically follow examples (Abram gave 10% so I must give 10% too) like you do. What I follow are the principles - people freely gave as they decided, and not according to ANY set percentages.

God commanded to go and preach the gospel to every creature. They stayed in Jerusalem selling their properties and distributing.

I knew it would come to this - in order to foster your own view, you are condemning selfless acts in the NT. Wonderful.

It led to problems, as Ananias and Saphirra's, then the Grecian murmurings.

Was it selfless giving without any strictures on percentages that caused problems or human greed? Yet again, you miss the wood for the trees. You are incredibly implying that by giving to those in need, it led to problems, as if giving 10% would not have led to the exact same problems due to base human instinct.

And when economic problems came on the region, Jerusalem believers suffered it the most.

Again with your road side economics - economic problems affected them, not because they sold some possessions, it affected everyone in Jerusalem.

All these things are written for our example, and for our learning. Father Christmas lifestyle will only meet needs for a while, it's not a good model to follow.

The model to follow is giving as you have determined, according to the need. No fixed percentage will ever be better than that.

Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

I hope you will heed the words and stop trying to be a Jew in the letter.

@Pastor Kunle @Debosky @Goshen @Zikky @BERNIMOORE @Enigma and many others

I just want to thank you for taking your time to debate this issue on Nairaland. When I first stumbled on the argument, my first reaction was surprise at people whom I felt were simplistically challenging a doctrine whose foundation was sure in the Word. I grabbed my bible and searched the scriptures.

I've learnt by following patiently the argument from both sides. For that, I also have to thank people like Pilgrim, Wordtalk, Joagbaje, Image, Snowwy, and a host of other noble brothers. Some are like me in their study. I walked through several stages when following the argument; through each step in trying to find the biblical foundation for the tithing doctrine for Christians, my firm desire was for it to be rooted in the Word of God.

The tithing doctrine is preached relentlessly and CONFIRMED by great men to be COMPULSORY, a 10th of every increase DOES NOT BELONG TO YOU but belongs to GOD and the Malachi Curse very like the proverbial sword of damocles hangs over the Christian, daring you to miss tithing by a jot. The windows of heavens blessings belong to you for 'giving back to GOD' via pastors HIS 10%.

So rigidly is it enforced, people are denied church promotion, marriage, burial etc if they are not tithers, some will NOT GIVE to non-tithers because they are NOT fertile ground/or they don't want the curse attached to non-tithers to transfer to them.

It at first appeared that the doctrine was rooted in the WORD because it had bible verses quoted (sadly Mal 3 most profusely) to support it.

And also who wouldn't want the oracles of God we have in our Pastors/Bishops/Teachers to be right everytime.

Unfortunately, they ARE NOT GOD. They are men of God. They are but men.

As sure as the Lord is, His Word will forever be exalted above every one who decrees a contrary doctrine using His name; His Word will be exalted above every proclamation COMMANDED to HIS people contrary to His word.

- Do you want people to follow the example in the scriptures of those who tithed?

Then teach them the entire truth. That there were men who lived in ISRAEL (some who strode like collosus) rich in silver and gold who WERE NOT commanded to tithe the silver or the gold. That NOT EVERY 10% was HOLY and belonged to God per commandment of the Lord. That Abraham's example CANNOT translate to the compulsory, malachi 3 curse ridden definition given above. Let them know it is voluntary and NO CURSE awaits them for not 'PAYING'. I think some MOG underestimate Christians and underestimate God. That HE would do what HE says HE would do; without co-ercing the people using half-truths, without giving them the bread of fear.

What I know is the half-truths will RULE because our people are a people steeped in SUPERSTITION. Who wouldn't want to ensure the hedge is not broken so the proverbial serpent will not bite. The 10% is wrongly preached as the glue that will fix the gap.

Fears of blood-sucking demons on roads causing accidents are dangled temptingly during sermons (the tithe the sure way to protect against them); TURNING THE PEOPLE away from the reality of THEIVING POLITICIANS who won't fix the roads, turning the people away from those WHO STEAL THE CHILDREN'S BREAD from the nations coffers ensuring there are NO GOOD HEALTH FACILITIES- BEHOLD THE REAL WINSHES AND WISARDS.

And so the poor man earning N5,000 with the sick and dying child will give 'God's 10%' back to him via pastor because he does not want to be robber. He is taught that even though he desperately needs the N500 to add to the amounts for treatment at hospital, HE MUST NOT GIVE IT TO THE DOCTOR. Best allow the child to die.

^^^ Very well said.

That post suggesting a person should "pay tithes" first instead of paying for medical treatment of a child was of course particularly striking.

Another thing in your post that is not so realised is that really "tithing" for many is ultimately a superstition on which the wolves prey and which the misguided abuse deliberately/indeliberately.

Hope more people will come to knowledge of truth about this issue.

Jem1:

Then teach them the entire truth. That there were men who lived in ISRAEL (some who strode like collosus) rich in silver and gold who WERE NOT commanded to tithe the silver or the gold. That NOT EVERY 10% was HOLY and belonged to God per commandment of the Lord. That Abraham's example CANNOT translate to the compulsory, malachi 3 curse ridden definition given above. Let them know it is voluntary and NO CURSE awaits them for not 'PAYING'. I think some MOG underestimate Christians and underestimate God. That HE would do what HE says HE would do; without co-ercing the people using half-truths, without giving them the bread of fear.

This is the crux of the issue - the feeling that telling people the entire truth might reduce their giving - that is at the root of my disagreement with some (not all) that preach tithe.

If people like the Macedonians gave, even in their poverty, WITHOUT coercion of a contrived Pseudo-Abram-Levitical tithing model, there is no excuse today. Let the Spirit do the work on the hearts of men and they will give!

What I know is the half-truths will RULE because our people are a people steeped in SUPERSTITION. Who wouldn't want to ensure the hedge is not broken so the proverbial serpent will not bite. The 10% is wrongly preached as the glue that will fix the gap.

Again this is an insightful comment - realising the mentality of much of the people, especially in the light of the hazards of daily life in Nigeria, this message is often irresistible. It is being sold almost as a form of 'insurance'.

Why all these noise about paying tithes or not paying tithes.Its a personal belief and can never be enforced on anyone.....what amazes me most is all the noise being made by non tithe payers.You people talk as if the tithe payers are idiots or dumb or foolish or are being brainwashed...they are not!!!!I bet some of your parents,family members etc do pay this tithe out of their own volition....are they stupid and brainwashed too?

You know,most times people do come here and say lots of things without thinking very well and these things have a way of coming back to haunt them.The things you say you dont do,yet your family members,even your parents do it.Yet you come here and run your mouth as if you all know best.I am sorry to say majority of you people are hypocrites and you mislead lots of people with whatever it is that's flowing out of your mouths.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but what we all need to learn is not to make a mess or castigate other peoples opinion especially when it doesn't suit us.
You dont like it,you cant accept it then move on and stick to what you believe in.

As for me,i am a tithe payer....as long as its written in the bible to do so,that will i do (the bible is living,living word of God,its still alive.

E.g A colleague of mine was once running her mouth,castigating MFM is this and that...and unfortunately for her,her husband just bought a car for her and guess where the husband took the car to for blessings....MFM.Yet she was running her mouth.


You are all entitled to ur beliefs but please do not castigate other peoples beliefs cause you dont know what,who and when you can be saved or helped when you are down and out.

As should be common knowledge, my posts on this thread are numbered. i'll just like to make some few comments and additions for those that are sincere to learn, and not lazy to read and check up.

My bro, the SCRIPTURES YOU GAVE to show tithes as COMMANDED by God TO THE ISRAELITES on Mount Sinai WERE NOT JUST AGRIC PRODUCE are:
My answer:

@Image, to show you it was AGRIC PRODUCE, all YOU have to do is read a few verses down & see the following:

Obviously, no one is denying that tithes were given of crops and animals, the issue is that it involved MORE THAN crops and animals. if that's the point i'm trying to prove, i do not need to be proving or quoting that they gave tithes of crops and animals. we all agree to that ithink. What i showed or highlighted was the FACT that tithe was given in other forms other than crops and animals and it was not/NEVER rejected or disapproved. And i have consistently said that NOBODY would go to hell or be punished by God for giving tithes of things other than crops and animals. plus the Word of God NEVER FORBIDS tithe of things other than crops and animals, only antitihers do. i obey the Word of God, not antitithers.

So here we have the ONLY portion @Image can cling on to as EVIDENCE that GOD COMMANDED A TITHE OF items apart from AGRIC PRODUCE; i.e the PHARISEES EXAMPLE!

It was not a 'command' in the sense that you define commands. the passage simply shows that it was not absurd in the times of Jesus to give tithes, or to give them from one's income or gains.

(I believe if he was as fastidious as described, his saying he 'tithed' would mean the agric produce AS COMMANDED in Lev 27:30,32,34; afterall we interprete scripture with scripture. The hearers as Israelites would know Num 18, 2 Chron 3, Mal 3 etc and their everyday practice had ALWAYS SHOWN Moses' tithe as agric produce to be eaten)

If YOU (@Image) BELIEVE he gave MORE items than agric produce as God commanded,

Let me ask you;

IS THE PHARISEE NOW GOD TO GIVE THAT AS A COMMANDMENT??
IS THE PHARISEE NOW GOD TO GIVE THAT AS A COMMANDMENT??

the Israelites prided themselves in being children of Abraham, and it would not be odd for them to do things, or want to do things as Abraham did it.
Joh 8:39a They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. It was actually Christ that was talking here, and teaching that good works do not justify us. Tithing and fasting are good works, and by the grace of God, i am zealous of good works.

Image123:
the Israelites prided themselves in being children of Abraham, and it would not be odd for them to do things, or want to do things as Abraham did it.
Joh 8:39a They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. It was actually Christ that was talking here, and teaching that good works do not justify us. Tithing and fasting are good works, and by the grace of God, i am zealous of good works.

So how does Abraham doing it justify the mandatory tithing from income being used to fleece believers today? Also Abraham slept with his wife's Maid, should we as christians also copy that example going by your twisted logic?

The above is your answer to my comment (START QUOTE Jem1)"Stop trying to give uninformed people the IMPRESSION THAT ALL ISREALITES TITHED. A lot were EXEMPT and WERE NOT CONSIDERED ROBBERS OR CURSED neither were they constantly afraid of the DEVOURER. In fact THEY WERE AS BLESSED AS THOSE WHO had Land and tithed"(END QUOTE Jem1)

The GOSPEL BIBLE according to @Image!!!

Even though Malachi 3 PROVES it was tithes according to Lev 27:30,32,34; YOU (inorder to fulfill your agenda) would BLATANTLY lie in your interpretation of "this whole nation"

It's in every Bible, not just my Bible.

Malachi 1:1 The burden of the word of the LORD to Israel by Malachi.
Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
Malachi 3:9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.
How you guys try to twist this is bizzare. They'll say he was talking to priests, talking to pharisees, talking before new testament started. How convenient. Even the one you people have not cut off from the Bible, when we come to it, they will say it's addressed to Corinthian church, and other dumb excuses. THE WORD OF GOD IS FOR ALL OF US, from Genesis to Revelation. All scripture is profitable. All is for our learning, and our example. there is no separating one, or learning from Abraham without Levi, or vice versa. All scripture is our example
Heb 2:1 Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.
i can smell that instead of some to sincerely consider the scriptures i alluded to, they would rather want to tear down and pick on the one i quoted. Anyways, Malachi was not written to any one tribe or colony of priests. Even the 'legalistic' Jews did not see it has for one tribe. it was their law, their prophets, their promise. And the contents of Malachi show that it was not even just for Israel, but for the whole world. It talks about the forerunner of the Saviour, talks of the comings of Christ, even of His future/2nd coming. Are those promises and prophecies to the priests alone or to the Levites. Let me brietly quote some.
Malachi 1:11 For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts.
Malachi 2:15 And did not he make one? Yet had he the residue of the spirit. And wherefore one? That he might seek a godly seed. Therefore take heed to your spirit, and let none deal treacherously against the wife of his youth.
Malachi 3:1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts. (Obviously referring to John the baptist. I don't think John was a promise to the tribe of Levi)

Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
Malachi 3:12 And all nations shall call you blessed: for ye shall be a delightful land, saith the LORD of hosts.
Malachi 4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
Malachi 4:4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.
Malachi 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
Malachi 4:6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

The passages show that this is God's Word for Israel, and the general principle of God's Word is that if God is speaking to, correcting or warning someone, He is saying it to all. It's naive to go and foolhardily repeat the same thing, claiming God was only correcting town A, or tribe B, or sect C, or Mr D not me.
Act 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

You know that the tithes referred to regarding ROBBING GOD were as DEFINED IN Lev 27.

HOW do we know this? See the items highlighted in my quote of Malachi 3 below.

(God is NOT A MAN @Image. He did NOT CURSE those who never broke HIS COMMANDMENT. He never cursed WAGE earners etc, i.e. people who didn't have the food items referred to below! He was not unaware of their existence! He just CHOSE NOT TO ask them to tithe, deal with it bro!

Mal 3:8 “Will a mere mortal rob God? Yet you rob me.“But you ask, ‘How are we robbing you?’“In tithes and offerings. 9 You are under a curse —your whole nation—because you are robbing me. 10 Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this,” says the Lord Almighty, “and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that there will not be room enough to store it. 11 I will prevent pests from devouring your crops, and the vines in your fields will not drop their fruit before it is ripe, ” says the Lord Almighty.

According to your lie, "this whole nation who are ROBBING GOD" NOW means that the follwoing Israelites were commanded!

Obviously you (@Image) would have to include/replace in your (@Image) version:

Malachi 3:10 "Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food (wages, shekels, gold, diamonds etc)in my house";

BECAUSE ONLY THEN would the groups below be part of this "whole nation" which you are reading out of context.

- Hired Workers did NOT tithe their wages
- Fishermen did not tithe
- Miners and the minerals were not tithed
- Carpenters/Construction Workers
- Traders who made/sold jewellery
- Priests
- Israelites without land e.g. the poor would receive tithe NOT PAY TITHE

I know you would prefer to HAVE PEOPLE BELIEVE that ALL Israelites tithed BECAUSE if they DIDN'T it WOULD SHOW UP THE LIE where Pastors teach people that ALL CHRISTIANS MUST TITHE EVERY INCOME/INCREASE or else they (Christians)are ROBBERS!!

God said the whole nation had robbed Him, jem 1 says its not the whole nation. It's not very hard for me to choose who to believe. you can continue with your conjectures, suppositions and ideas.

(GNB) A curse is on all of you because the whole nation is cheating me.
(GW) So a curse is on you because the whole nation is cheating me!

NOT every tenth (10%) was HOLY & BELONGED to God!!

If they Know that even the Israelites who were COMMANDED at Mount Sinai DIDNT HAVE TO TITHE EVERY INCOME, it puts paid to the lie that CHRISTIANS ARE ROBBERS IF THEY DONT TITHE EVERY INCREASE!

You know the groups above were not a part of this "whole nation" you are attempting to read OUT OF CONTEXT!

See more people below who DIDN'T HAVE TO TITHE

1. Those who's animals increased by less than 10! So if your animals increased by 6, you don't kill some so you can tithe. They didn't tithe at that point and WERE NOT ROBBERS
2. Those who were Gentiles (yes even gentile CHRISTIANS).

IT takes NOTHING from You to admit their practice in biblical times as confirmed by historical facts in the bible.

i will still like to know that portion of scriptures that says "NOT every tenth (10%) was HOLY & BELONGED to God".

Are you saying because Paul claimed to be the son of a pharisee, you also see yourself as the son of a pharisee? what exactly is the message here?

Paul claimed to be a Pharisee, i even bolded it, do you use eye-glasses? Or you just decided to pick and choose?

How does inspiration becomes a commandment? now you see why Kunle keep calling you 'olodo'

2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
(GW) Every Scripture passage is inspired by God. All of them are useful for teaching, pointing out errors, correcting people, and training them for a life that has God's approval.

(CEV) Everything in the Scriptures is God's Word. ALL OF IT IS USEFUL for teaching and helping people and for correcting them and showing them how to live.


If you noticed from these passages, i'm not dreaming up what i'm saying.

Not all the time sir. Tithe as a tenth was created by man, God did not say it will always be a tenth. If we follow God's definition of tithe (Leviticus), you find that that God's tithe is not always a tenth It ranges from zero to 10% with the possibility of increasing your total tithe cost to 12% when exercise the option to cash-in your tithe and pay additional penalty/fine of 2%. for example (edit: reference to Jem1 post above) the shepherd with an increase of 9 animals will pay zero tithe, one with an increase of let say 18 animals will submit one (about 6%) as tithe. If we decide to push it further, God's definition of 'annual tithe' will amount to a maximum of 20% (22% with penalty) and 30% every third year.

A self created/imposed obligation to render a tenth of your income to God via remittance to your pastor is not bad, what's bad is when the pastor preach this man made/defined ritual as God's instruction

Zikky what is the definition of a tithe? A tithe is one tenth, even the scripture uses the two words interchangeably.
Heb 7:4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.
Heb 7:6 But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.
i don't know if you people just talk to have the last post/word or something.

Image123: Obviously, no one is denying that tithes were given of crops and animals, the issue is that it involved MORE THAN crops and animals. if that's the point i'm trying to prove, i do not need to be proving or quoting that they gave tithes of crops and animals. we all agree to that ithink. What i showed or highlighted was the FACT that tithe was given in other forms other than crops and animals and it was not/NEVER rejected or disapproved. And i have consistently said that NOBODY would go to hell or be punished by God for giving tithes of things other than crops and animals.

[quote author=Jem1] So here we have the ONLY portion @Image can cling on to as EVIDENCE that GOD COMMANDED A TITHE OF items apart from AGRIC PRODUCE; i.e the PHARISEES EXAMPLE!

[quote author=Image123] It was not a 'command' in the sense that you define commands. the passage simply shows that it was not absurd in the times of Jesus to give tithes, or to give them from one's income or gains.

The only example OF IT EVER INVOLVING MORE THAN CROPS AND ANIMALS is your example in Luke 18?

Lets read

Luke 18:9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’
13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’
14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

- Goodluck emulating a man in the parable (NOT EVEN A REAL PERSON) who was trying to display his self-rigtheousness. A HYPOTHETICAL man Jesus castigated.

If he tithed other things apart from agric produce, that CERTAINLY is NOT by command of the Lord. He might be your example (THE ONLY ONE) but excuse those who dont believe it's sufficient to justify todays tithing COMMANDMENT not to use 10% of a tither's income for hospital bills for a dying child if that's all the tither has, thank you.

- It's already been confirmed that the only time money was ACCEPTED AS TITHE was when it was REDEEMED by COMMAND OF THE LORD, by adding a fifth! It was NO LONGER 10%. Every other time we encounter the Moses' Tithe, it was to be eaten.

The two items i.e. 1. Agric produce and 2. The redeemed money were COMMANDED via Lev 27:31-34

The only other example is Abraham's ONE-OFF TITHE given after he was already a successful man. The tithe was not A PREREQUISITE to his SUCCESS!

- If you see Zikky's post, tithe was NOT STRICTLY DEFINED as a tenth 10%.

Zikkyy:
Not all the time sir. Tithe as a tenth was created by man, God did not say it will always be a tenth. If we follow God's definition of tithe (Leviticus), you find that that God's tithe is not always a tenth It ranges from zero to 10% with the possibility of increasing your total tithe cost to 12% when exercise the option to cash-in your tithe and pay additional penalty/fine of 2%. for example (edit: reference to Jem1 post above) the shepherd with an increase of 9 animals will pay zero tithe, one with an increase of let say 18 animals will submit one (about 6%) as tithe. If we decide to push it further, God's definition of 'annual tithe' will amount to a maximum of 20% (22% with penalty) and 30% every third year.

A self created/imposed obligation to render a tenth of your income to God via remittance to your pastor is not bad, what's bad is when the pastor preach this man made/defined ritual as God's instruction

Image123: plus the Word of God NEVER FORBIDS tithe of things other than crops and animals, only antitihers do. i obey the Word of God, not antitithers.

Forbidding the Israelites The quotes were based on what the Israelites did ( Lev 27, Deut, Num 18, 2 Chron) how do you mean forbid them? They chose to follow the commandment on Mt Sinai by consistently tithing things that can be eaten according to the scriptures we've looked at. Or are you talking about money when they redeemed it and added a fifth? Or are you talking about today?? My grouse for today you know, it's the way it's taught without giving the full truth, lying that every 10% is HOLY & BELONGS to God when even in biblical times it was not so, it is a NEW COMMANDMENT by today's teachers and they tie it to calamities befalling people who they accuse of 'stealing' the 10% errorneously declared as being holy and belonging to GOD.

The following Israelites

WAGE EARNERS who earned money increased
People who had mined, some who had gold, diamonds etc increased
The poor gleaned the fields and increased (they received tithes)
Priests increased
Those who's lambs increased by six etc increased
etc

They were NOT COMMANDED [/b]by the LORD to tithe (give 10%)
They were [b]NOT CURSED IN MALACHI [/b]for robbing God of crop, fruit, meat etc!
Neither DO WE HAVE [b]EXAMPLES in the bible of them tithing!

NOT EVERY 10% WAS HOLY AND BELONGED TO THE LORD
NOT EVERY 10% WAS HOLY AND BELONGED TO THE LORD

@Image,

"God said the whole nation had robbed Him, jem 1 says its not the whole nation."

I think it's very disingenuous giving people the impression I woke up and said the above!! Why didn't you give people the truth? I'm beginning to suspect you're not an honourable man

You quoted Malachi in response to my comment below:

"Mal 3:8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. Mal 3:9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even[b] this whole nation[/b].

I had said "Stop trying to give uninformed people the IMPRESSION THAT ALL ISREALITES TITHED. A lot were EXEMPT and WERE NOT CONSIDERED ROBBERS OR CURSED neither were they constantly afraid of the DEVOURER. In fact THEY WERE AS BLESSED AS THOSE WHO had Land and tith, then you quoted as your answer the above Malachi 3:8-9 scripture.

Jem1: @Image
The above is your answer to my comment (START QUOTE Jem1)"Stop trying to give uninformed people the IMPRESSION THAT ALL ISREALITES TITHED. A lot were EXEMPT and WERE NOT CONSIDERED ROBBERS OR CURSED neither were they constantly afraid of the DEVOURER. In fact THEY WERE AS BLESSED AS THOSE WHO had Land and tithed"(END QUOTE Jem1)

The GOSPEL BIBLE according to @Image!!!

Even though Malachi 3 PROVES it was tithes according to Lev 27:30,32,34; YOU (inorder to fulfill your agenda) would BLATANTLY lie in your interpretation of "this whole nation"

You know that the tithes referred to regarding ROBBING GOD were as DEFINED IN Lev 27.

HOW do we know this? See the items highlighted in my quote of Malachi 3 below.

(God is NOT A MAN @Image. He did NOT CURSE those who never broke HIS COMMANDMENT. He never cursed WAGE earners etc, i.e. people who didn't have the food items referred to below! He was not unaware of their existence! He just CHOSE NOT TO ask them to tithe, deal with it bro!

Mal 3:8 “Will a mere mortal rob God? Yet you rob me.“But you ask, ‘How are we robbing you?’“In tithes and offerings. 9 You are under a curse —your whole nation—because you are robbing me. 10 Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food [/b]in my house. Test me in this,” says the Lord Almighty, “and see if I will not throw open the [b]floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that there will not be room enough to store it. 11 I will prevent pests from devouring your crops, and the vines in your fields will not drop their fruit before it is ripe, ” says the Lord Almighty.

According to your lie, "this whole nation who are ROBBING GOD" NOW means that the follwoing Israelites were commanded!

Obviously you (@Image) would have to include/replace in your (@Image) version:

Malachi 3:10 "Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food (wages, shekels, gold, diamonds etc)in my house";

BECAUSE ONLY THEN would the groups below be part of this "whole nation" which you are reading out of context.

- Hired Workers did NOT tithe their wages
- Fishermen did not tithe
- Miners and the minerals were not tithed
- Carpenters/Construction Workers
- Traders who made/sold jewellery
- Priests
- Israelites without land e.g. the poor would receive tithe NOT PAY TITHE

I know you would prefer to HAVE PEOPLE BELIEVE that ALL Israelites tithed BECAUSE if they DIDN'T it WOULD SHOW UP THE LIE where Pastors teach people that ALL CHRISTIANS MUST TITHE EVERY INCOME/INCREASE or else they (Christians)are ROBBERS!!

NOT every tenth (10%) was HOLY & BELONGED to God!!

If they Know that even the Israelites who were COMMANDED at Mount Sinai DIDNT HAVE TO TITHE EVERY INCOME, it puts paid to the lie that CHRISTIANS ARE ROBBERS IF THEY DONT TITHE EVERY INCREASE!

You know the groups above were not a part of this "whole nation" you are attempting to read OUT OF CONTEXT!

See more people below who DIDN'T HAVE TO TITHE

1. Those who's animals increased by less than 10! So if your animals increased by 6, you don't kill some so you can tithe. They didn't tithe at that point and WERE NOT ROBBERS
2. Those who were Gentiles (yes even gentile CHRISTIANS).

IT takes NOTHING from You to admit their practice in biblical times as confirmed by historical facts in the bible.

So today you come with the quote below out of context and trying to portray me in a bad light? I laugh in pidgin!

Image123:
God said the whole nation had robbed Him, jem 1 says its not the whole nation. It's not very hard for me to choose who to believe. you can continue with your conjectures, suppositions and ideas.
(GNB) A curse is on all of you because the whole nation is cheating me.
(GW) So a curse is on you because the whole nation is cheating me!

Here's my answer:

I said you were reading it out of CONTEXT.

HOW?

By giving the impression that 'the whole nation' being said to have ROBBED HIM IN TITHES AND OFFERINGS NOW MEANS even those who had increased in CASH, DIAMONDS, GOLD etc owed him a tithe 10% of cash, diamonds, gold etc (We know NOT every 10% increase was HOLY and BELONGED to God per Lev 27:30-34

See the ITEMS God called His tithe


[i]Mal 3
8 “Will a man rob God?Yet you have robbed Me!But you say,‘In what way have we robbed You?’
In tithes and offerings.
9 You are cursed with a curse,For you have robbed Me,Even this whole nation.
10 Bring ALL THE TITHES into the storehouse,That there may be food in My house,And try Me now in this,”
Says the Lord of hosts,
“If I will not open for you the windows of heavenAnd pour out for you such blessingThat there will not be room enough to receive it.
11 “And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes,So that he will not destroy the fruit of your ground,Nor shall the vine [/b]fail to bear[b] fruit for you in the field,”
[/i]Says the Lord of hosts;

The ones who ROBBED Him of HIS tithe robbed him of tithes of FOOD, FRUIT, some versions say MEAT (Consistent with HIS COMMANDMENT see Lev 27:30,32,34)(If you have another 'non commandment to tithe other things' apart from Luke 18:12 or Abraham's tithe, let me know.

I'm sorry Image, HE never added that they robbed him of cash, gold, diamonds etc. They simply were NOT COMMANDED to tithe outside of Lev 27 definition neither do we have examples of people choosing to do otherwise. If they do, it would be of their own volition NOT per commandment of the Lord.

If you do add the above (i.e implying that they robbed him of cash, gold, diamonds etc), You would be adding to the scripture. I know you've said you want to keep to the SPIRIT not the LETTER all well and good, their is no requirement that it MUST [/b]BE 10% to take care of ministers.


p.s Did you deliberately remove the line I drew accross 'FOOD' here when you quoted me earlier or is it nairaland? sorry if I'm accusing you wrongly.

Jem1: @Image
Malachi 3:10 "Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be [b]food (wages, shekels, gold, diamonds etc)in my house";

What I have seen with you and other tithe teachers so far is THE MIXTURE OF PRE-LAW TITHE AND LAW TITHE. When asked tough questions, you jump to pre-law and blend or mix your answers with the law tithing. You cannot give a standalone answer strictly on the pre-law tithe which you claim its basis of tithing. That is the area my questions are pointing to recently.

There is nothing really like pre law tithe and law tithe. Tithe is tithe, simply a tenth. It is antitithers that try to divide it. The Bible is not divided, it is God's Word. People who teach tithe preach it as one, because the Word of God is One, and we have respect to all the precepts of God. It's antitithers that would be segregating if for instance one quotes Malachi, then you guys would come and say crops, levites, blah blah. then its only natural to point you to the likes of Abraham that also gave tithes and it was acceptable even without Levites or only crops. And when you say one-off, it's naturally we bring up the two, and in the light and spirit of the two, and all other 'tithe passages', we make reasonable, spirit led, and sustaining decisions and doctrines as it were.

As for you, you have chosen to create further lies - the common man could redeem his vows in money, could exchange the very tithes for money, so this tosh about a measure of wealth is irrelevant.
The agrarian nature of the economy has NOTHING to do with the commandment God gave. Your suggestion that it does/did is indeed unconsolidated tosh. The farmers who grew crops - what did they do with them? They SOLD them for money. If God was interested in MONEY as tithes, he would have said so - leave your road side economic history for someone else.

What about those that didn’t grow crops or have flocks?

i've not forced, compelled or even asked you to tithe. i've simply stated reasons why people do so. It's up to you, it's never a war or a big deal. Your spiritual welfare is of more concern to me than whether you give tithe or pay tithe or no. i've tried to answer based on the context of questions asked by almost all, and tried to simply and apply answers as much as possible. It becomes their cup of tea when posters begin to pick and choose my words to paint the pictures they want to. They did worse to Paul, and others in the Bible. i do not owe you guys an explanation, neither do i feel pressured to respond to your every single sentence if i want to by the grace of God. i've never read these 3 links before now, but they at least show that what i'm saying is not from another planet. i thought it was common knowledge but you've proved it's not. i'm not going into any research on it. i got it as simply as googling money, and it shows up what i've been saying, and you've been treating as if it's some esoteric knowledge. Please read(1). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money. Some of the phrases below are there.
-Money is any object or record that is generally accepted as payment for goods and services and repayment of debts in a given country or socio-economic context.[1][2][3] The main functions of money are distinguished as: a medium of exchange; a unit of account; a store of value; and, occasionally in the past, a standard of deferred payment.[4][5] Any kind of object or secure verifiable record that fulfills these functions can serve as money.

-Money originated as commodity mone[/b]y, but nearly all contemporary money systems are based on fiat money.

- Many cultures around the world eventually developed the use of commodity money.
- The shekel was originally a unit of weight, and referred to a specific weight of barley, which was used as currency.
- After World War II, at the Bretton Woods Conference, most countries adopted fiat currencies that were fixed to the US dollar. The US dollar was in turn fixed to gold.
- Examples of commodities that have been used as mediums of exchange include gold, silver, copper, [b]rice, salt, peppercorns, large stones, decorated belts, shells, alcohol, cigarettes, cannabis, candy,

(2), http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodity_money
- Commodity money is money whose value comes from a commodity of which it is made. It is objects that have value in themselves as well as for use as money.[1]
Examples of commodities that have been used as mediums of exchange include gold, silver, copper, peppercorns, large stones (such as Rai stones), decorated belt[/b]s, shells, alcohol, cigarettes, cannabis, candy, barley, [b]laundry detergent, etc. These items were sometimes used in a metric of perceived value in conjunction to one another, in various commodity valuation or price system economies.
- Commodities often come into being in situations where other forms of money are not available or not trusted. Various commodities were used in pre-Revolutionary America including wampum, maize, iron nails, beaver pelts, and tobacco. According to economist Murray Rothbard:
In the sparsely settled American colonies, money, as it always does, arose in the market as a useful and scarce commodity and began to serve as a general medium of exchange. Thus, beaver fur and wampum were used as money in the north for exchanges with the Indians, and fish and corn also served as money. Rice was used as money in South Carolina, and the most widespread use of commodity money was tobacco, which served as money in Virginia. The pound-of-tobacco was the currency unit in Virginia, with warehouse receipts in tobacco circulating as money backed 100 percent by the tobacco in the warehouse.

And (3) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_Revolution

The Industrial Revolution marks a major turning point in history; almost every aspect of daily life was influenced in some way.
"For the first time in history, the living standards of the masses of ordinary people have begun to undergo sustained growth ... Nothing remotely like this economic behavior has happened before"
With the transition away from an agricultural-based economy and towards machine-based manufacturing came a great influx of population from the countryside and into the towns and cities, which swelled in population.
Economic historians are in agreement that the onset of the Industrial Revolution is the most important event in the history of humanity since the domestication of animals and plants.
The invention of machinery played a big part in driving forward the British Agricultural Revolution. Agricultural improvement began in the centuries before the Industrial revolution got going and it may have played a part in freeing up labour from the land to work in the new industrial mills of the 18th century. As the revolution in industry progressed a succession of machines became available which increased food production with ever fewer labourers.
In terms of social structure, the Industrial Revolution witnessed the triumph of a middle class of industrialists and businessmen over a landed class of nobility and gentry.
The Industrial Revolution was a period from 1750 to 1850 where changes in agriculture, manufacturing, mining, transportation, and technology had a profound effect on the social, economic and cultural conditions of the times
The links show that one, wealth used to largely be a measure of agriculture(lands, crops and animals) one possessed. i've not said they did not have shekels, or gold. Those were not as important, vital as cattle. Even the northeners in Nigeria still operate slightly with such values. It didn't matter how much shekels the common individual had as compared to been rich in cattle and large barns. The links also show that many things were used as money, not just naira and silver. Even Solomon used food to make payment.

2Ch 2:8 Send me also cedar trees, fir trees, and algum trees, out of Lebanon: for I know that thy servants can skill to cut timber in Lebanon; and, behold, my servants shall be with thy servants,
2Ch 2:9 Even to prepare me timber in abundance: for the house which I am about to build shall be wonderful great.
2Ch 2:10 And, behold, I will give to thy servants, the hewers that cut timber, twenty thousand measures of beaten wheat, and twenty thousand measures of barley, and twenty thousand baths of wine, and twenty thousand baths of oil.
Jacob was paid wages in cattle by his uncle laban. It's was not a strange thing in those days. And it was rare to see someone not involved in subsistence agriculture. Even in Nigeria, in some parts of Nigeria, you still see Doctors, Nurses, Teachers etc who have farm. Why is it so hard to imagine that a scribe, or pharisee, or carpenter would have no farm 2000years ago?

This is not about what wealth was connected to - as wealth was also connected with slaves. If it was simply about what wealth was connected to, why didn’t God ask people to tithe slaves or the ‘increase’ in slaves from the slaves giving birth?

The standard and universally common measure of wealth was agric produce. It's not my fault that you don't know that.

It is tosh because you are saying ‘wealth’ was the focus - IT WASN’T. The focus was the increase God brought out of the HOLY LAND of ISRAEL and nothing else.

A result of reading too much antitithe nonsense. there is nothing like the HOLY LAND OF ISRAEL. The earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof. And God increase everyman, not just farmers. It is God that gives power to get wealth, whether you work in the bank, in the lab, in the air, off-shore or on-shore.
1Sa 2:7 The LORD maketh poor, and maketh rich: he bringeth low, and lifteth up.

Do you know how to read? I don’t care for your opinions on this - simply show where tithing is described as the ‘most consistent’ in the bible or give up.

If you've checked the meaning of consistent, you would see that tithes was the most consistent of all the offerings given. It could be used by all, not just males or within a day or too like most other offerings, and it was sure to come.

No more than God did not command Christians to tithe - it’s an idea lost on people like you - self determination of giving, eschewing legalistic percentages.

Mal 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.
Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Mat 23:1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
Act 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:
Act 25:8 While he answered for himself, Neither against the law of the Jews, neither against the temple, nor yet against Caesar, have I offended any thing at all.
Act 28:23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.
ithink i get where Goshen asked one of his questions now. Of course the storehouse is God's house, and God's house is the church, so "bring it on".

I knew it would come to this - in order to foster your own view, you are condemning selfless acts in the NT. Wonderful.

i'm not condemning anybody, i simply showed you what happened to them, and why their model of giving is not sustainable. We ought to learn from mistakes of others, not ignore it or live in denial.

Again with your road side economics - economic problems affected them, not because they sold some possessions, it affected everyone in Jerusalem.

i'll show you the passage. It seems you are been foggy about it.

Act 11:28 And there stood up one of them named Agabus, and signified by the spirit that there should be great dearth throughout all the world: which came to pass in the days of Claudius Caesar.
Act 11:29 Then the disciples, every man according to his ability, determined to send relief unto the brethren which dwelt in Judea:
It was a world wide economic problem, but it obviously affected the Jerusalem christians more adversely. People even gave out of their poverty when they saw a more frightening level of poverty. They were the only saints termed as "poor saints"
Rom 15:26 For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem.
When people like kunle and co [b]keep making nois[/b]e about selling our possessions and giving it to the less privilege, it is only right that i show that we exercise some caution, and look at the totality of the scriptures. i am not against giving, i give(i.e charity), but it's not a big deal to keep smacking the lips about, neither is it the gospel that Jesus came to give us.

@Image,

I think you will continue to struggle if you try to re-write History.

History says Israelites were commanded to tithe agric products according to the bible - You agree

History says all the examples we have were of people who tithed agric products to be EATEN according to the bible - You agree apart from Luke 18:9-14 (and maybe Mal 3 where you say God mentioning the tithes they robbed HIM of as food, crop etc don't matter)

History says in the bible there were others who increased in other ways apart from the COMMANDED items in Lev 27 e.g. cash, wages, gold etc

History does not give us EXAMPLES in the BIBLE of those who tithed the said cash, wages, gold etc. EXCEPT maybe a non-living, hypothetical, self righteous man in Luke 18:9-14

BUT STILL - You do not want to limit yourself to THE HISTORICAL FACTS because You say it didn't really matter to God what HE COMMANDED and that EVERYONE MUST HAVE TITHED

1. Even though you have NO EXAMPLES (unless you want to add the non-living, hypothetical, self-righteous man who was NOT JUSTIFIED in Luke 18:12)
2. Even though you would have to add such conjecture to RE-CREATE the tithing doctrine.

WHY does it matter SO MUCH to you that they should have tithed OTHER THINGS? AFTERALL YOU ARE NOT trying to keep the letter?

Is it because you have deemed EVERY 10% INCREASE for Christians as HOLY and belonging to God.

Unfortunately, the BIBLE does NOT support YOUR NOTION, not every 10% increase for the the Israelites was Holy and belonged to God! Only those in Lev 27:30-34!

You would have to go to ABRAHAM's one off example which we WERE NOT told was COMMANDED (Unless you want to read that into scripture).
The bible shows him as being extremely successful EVEN BEFORE the one off tithe.

You cannot keep the letter (it was agric produce per lev 27 in the land of Israel)
You do not want to keep the letter - good!
You say you keep the SPIRIT of taking care of those who minister

WHY A 10% RULE ON every increase compulsorily (according to some any deviation will lead to curses and a devourer contrary to the Word of God)?

iguess Abraham is not a part of your history, also 2chronicles 31.5 and Malachi that mentions bringing ALL the tithes. All that matters to you is to obey your interpretation that only crop and animal was acceptable, a point not stated anywhere in the bible. What becomes more obvious is the fact that God made His words so basic that the general public could obey it and provide for His servants. Luke10 is yet another demonstration where the Master talked about eating and drinking your wages i.e that labourer is worthy of his wages passage. It wasn't rare to pay one in food. Money in the form we know it, was not as basic as it is today. That was why grown men like Peter and John could move about without money. That was why Jesus and His entourage could move around without money to pay tax. You can be sure they had food though. That was a basic measure anyone on the average could meet. Today, money has taken a more central position and literally makes the world go round. It didn't always occupy that position. You refuse the scripture and history wen you don't take that to note. God accepts my tithe, you can go and query Him.

Image123:
There is nothing really like pre law tithe and law tithe. Tithe is tithe, simply a tenth.

This is simply a lie - they are different because there are different consequences/requirements attached to each. If you think an act done out of faith and one done because it was instructed are the same, you are quite deluded.

You CANNOT call a 'one-off' act (or once recorded according to you), and one that was mandated with consequences if not obeyed the same thing. It is the height of deceitfulness to deny these basic facts.

It is antitithers that try to divide it. The Bible is not divided, it is God's Word.

This is another lie - the so called 'antitithers' (those on this thread) are simply pointing out the inconsistencies in the teaching of many today. I cannot vouch for others

People who teach tithe preach it as one, because the Word of God is One, and we have respect to all the precepts of God.

This is patently false - I was taught tithing from a young age, and not once was the entire word preached on tithe - I discovered it myself. Fast forward to 2 years ago, one of the largest and fast growing churches taught tithe, using the text in the law given to the Israelites to say it was compulsory for Christians to tithe.

How can you sit here and claim to know what ALL tithe teachers preach? Your hubris and utter arrogance is shocking.

It's antitithers that would be segregating if for instance one quotes Malachi, then you guys would come and say crops, levites, blah blah. then its only natural to point you to the likes of Abraham that also gave tithes and it was acceptable even without Levites or only crops. And when you say one-off, it's naturally we bring up the two, and in the light and spirit of the two, and all other 'tithe passages', we make reasonable, spirit led, and sustaining decisions and doctrines as it were.

I have never segregated anything - my position has always been clear - let those who teach tithe teach the full context and let individuals decide. I have given two examples of large congregations in Nigeria that DO NOT teach this full context. My experience nullifies this fatuous claim you make that tithe teachers use 'all' tithe passages.

i've not forced, compelled or even asked you to tithe. i've simply stated reasons why people do so. It's up to you, it's never a war or a big deal. Your spiritual welfare is of more concern to me than whether you give tithe or pay tithe or no.

The aspect on forcing wasn't directed at you, but more at those who would forcefully teach compulsory tithing, even to Christians today.

i've never read these 3 links before now, but they at least show that what i'm saying is not from another planet. i thought it was common knowledge but you've proved it's not. i'm not going into any research on it. i got it as simply as googling money, and it shows up what i've been saying, and you've been treating as if it's some esoteric knowledge.[quote]

You are appearing to be hard of hearing or lacking in comprehension. This is not about the economic system - the fact that the economy was 'agrarian' is not the debate here - my simple assertion is that God's commandments on tithing was NOT based on the so called economic system. SIMPLE. As you like to claim (when it suits you), the word of God does not change - if crops and animals were tithes in the OT, don't change it to monthly salary on the basis of weak human logic.



A result of reading too much antitithe nonsense. there is nothing like the HOLY LAND OF ISRAEL.

My apologies - what about Promised Land? Does that work better for you? Tithe is meant to originate from the land God promised to Abraham, Isaac and Israel

If you've checked the meaning of consistent, you would see that tithes was the most consistent of all the offerings given. It could be used by all, not just males or within a day or too like most other offerings, and it was sure to come.

You keep wriggling left and right - if you cannot answer a direct question, say so. This type of duplicity paints you as someone trying to avoid the truth - please show where the bible describes tithing as the most consistent way of giving, or stop this ridiculous act of yours. It makes you look like someone avoiding the truth.

ithink i get where Goshen asked one of his questions now. Of course the storehouse is God's house, and God's house is the church, so "bring it on".

1 Corinthians 6:19-20 says I am the temple of God. Can I bring the tithe into myself then?

i'll show you the passage. It seems you are been foggy about it.

Act 11:28 And there stood up one of them named Agabus, and signified by the spirit that there should be great dearth throughout all the world: which came to pass in the days of Claudius Caesar.
Act 11:29 Then the disciples, every man according to his ability, determined to send relief unto the brethren which dwelt in Judea:
It was a world wide economic problem, but it obviously affected the Jerusalem christians more adversely. People even gave out of their poverty when they saw a more frightening level of poverty. They were the only saints termed as "poor saints"
Rom 15:26 For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem.

I am not foggy about anything - the famine caused their poverty not their giving. If you claim otherwise you are peddling lies. The truth is that there were many potential reasons why the Saints in Jerusalem were poor, ranging from dual taxation from both Roman and Jewish authorities (Not suffered by those in Antioch), ostracising of the Jewish Christians by the wider Jewish society amongst others.

This is what biblical scholars say on the poverty of the Jerusalem church:

Scholars are widely in agreement that at least sections of the Jerusalem church in the first century experienced “chronic poverty.”8 We have little evidence as to why the saints in Jerusalem had so many poor among them, whom they themselves could not help, nor are we given a direct reason as to why Paul was eager to help them

Some even go further to say the following:

Let’s focus in on the Apostle Paul and the Corinthian Church and his instruction for the collection for the saints.

"Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given orders to the churches of Galatia, so you must do also: {2} On the first day of the week let each one of you lay something aside, storing up as he may prosper, that there be no collections when I come. {3} And when I come, whomever you approve by your letters I will send to bear your gift to Jerusalem" (1 Corinthians 16:1-3 NKJV).
Let’s notice a couple of points: This passage does NOT say to bring an offering to the church. It says to "lay something aside, storing up as he may prosper."

The problem was NOT getting money to Jerusalem but getting food and grain to them. At this time, Jerusalem was in the midst of a famine. The land was like a desert. It was hot and barren. They were not able to plant and raise a crop of grain. If they didn't have food and grain in Jerusalem, what good would money do them. There wasn't any grain there for them to buy.

http://www.icogsfg.org/collectn.html

If we agree with the latter view that money was not the issue, then clearly possessions would not have helped poverty either. This is further supported by previous famines in Israel - the widow of Zarephath had a house, but was going to die because of famine, not because of a lack of 'possessions'.

Image123: iguess Abraham is not a part of your history,

I'm surprised you didn't see this:

Jem1: @Image,
You would have to go to ABRAHAM's one off example which we WERE NOT told was COMMANDED (Unless you want to read that into scripture).
The bible shows him as being extremely successful EVEN BEFORE the one off tithe.

Now regarding 2 Chron 31:5 in your quote below, it was also agric produce for eating

Image123: iguess Abraham is not a part of your history, also 2chronicles 31.5 [/b]and Malachi that mentions bringing ALL the tithes. All that matters to you is to obey your interpretation that only crop and animal was acceptable, a point not stated anywhere in the bible.

@Image, I know you know that tithe in 2 Chron 31:5 was eaten. Because I already showed in the previous page that 'the [b]tithe of all things' [/b]in 2 Chron 31:5 was agric produce BECAUSE Azariah the priest [b]CONFIRMED they ATE [/b]them.

2 Chron 31
4 Moreover he commanded the people that dwelt in Jerusalem to give the portion of the priests and the Levites, that they might be encouraged in the law of the Lord.
5 And as soon as the commandment came abroad, the children of Israel brought in abundance the firstfruits of corn, wine, and oil, and honey, and of all the increase of the field; and [b]the tithe of all things brought they in abundantly.
6 And concerning the children of Israel and Judah, that dwelt in the cities of Judah, they also brought in the tithe of oxen and sheep, and the tithe of holy things which were consecrated unto the Lord their God, and laid them by heaps.
7 In the third month they began to lay the foundation of the heaps, and finished them in the seventh month.
8 And when Hezekiah and the princes came and saw the heaps, they blessed the Lord, and his people Israel.
9 Then Hezekiah questioned with the priests and the Levites concerning the HEAPS.
10 And Azariah the chief priest of the house of Zadok answered him, and said, Since the people began to bring the offerings into the house of the Lord, we have had enough to eat, and have left plenty[/b]: for the Lord hath blessed his people; and [b]that which is left is this great store.

It shows the following:

1. The Levites and Priests made the items collected in 2 Chron 31:5&6 into HEAPS
2. Hezekiah and the princes asked them about the HEAPS collected in 2 Chron 31:5&6
3. Azariah the chief priest said CONCERINING THE HEAPS from 2 Chron 31:5&6 that they had lots to EAT[/b]and plenty left over.
4. The [b]HEAPS are the plenty left over after eating

**You only 'EAT' things like the ones defined in Lev 27:30,32 (crops/animals)

Image123: iguess Abraham is not a part of your history, also 2chronicles 31.5 and[b] Malachi[/b] that mentions bringing ALL the tithes.

- Now regarding Malachi and 'bringing ALL the TITHE in your quote above, God DECLARED that they robbed HIM of tithes and then in Mal 3:10 CONFIRMED the TITHE as FOOD! God in His infinite mercy stayed true to food! And you attempt to say I lie?? Is it not in your bible?? @Jem1 didn't write that bit lol!

I know it would have suited your purpose that they robbed Him of 'tithes of other things', 'UNFORTUNATELY', He REFUSED to declare that they robbed Him of tithes of wages, cash, gold, silver, shekels etc. If you do that, YOU WOULD BE ADDING TO SCRIPTURE!

Tbh, I know WHY you BELIEVE it matters so much that they MUST have tithed OTHER THINGS (apart from food) even though it was NEVER COMMANDED as tithe for the ISRAELITES neither do we have ANY EXAMPLES in the scriptures of them tithing other things.

- It's because you WOULD HAVE US believe EVERY 10% INCREASE for the Israelites was HOLY and BELONGED to God and therefore, EVERY ISRAELITE TITHED - NOT TRUE bro!

[/b]Mal 3 proves even 1,000 years after GOD gave HIS COMMAND, HE STILL STUCK to the [b]SANCTITY/SACREDNESS of His Command

See the COMMAND BELOW

30 “‘A tithe of everything from the land, whether grain from the soil or fruit from the trees, BELONGS to the Lord; it is HOLY to the Lord. 31 Whoever would redeem any of their tithe must add a fifth of the value to it. 32 Every tithe of the[b] herd[/b] and flock—every tenth animal that passes under the shepherd’s rod —will be HOLY to the Lord. 33 No one may pick out the good from the bad or make any substitution. If anyone does make a substitution, both the animal and its substitute become HOLY and cannot be redeemed. ’”

34 These are the COMMANDS the Lord gave Moses at Mount Sinai for the Israelites.


- @Image, What is HOLY & BELONGS to God WAS DETERMINED by GOD ALMIGHTY

See how even the SUBSTITUTE animal in vs 33 BECOMES HOLY by COMMANDMENT of the Lord.

@Image knows that redeemed items were ONLY ALLOWED as HOLY and tithe after a fifth was added rendering them to be more than 10% (a penalty)

@Image CANNOT re-write scripture and determine that shekels, cash, gold, silver etc were COMMANDED as HOLY to the Lord as tithe by COMMAND to the ISRAELITES.

@Image has NO EXAMPLES of them being told in Malachi 3 that they robbed him of tithes of shekels, cash, gold etc EXCEPT FOOD as stated in the bible.

@Image has NO EXAMPLES of THE ISRAELITES tithing 'OTHER THINGS' outside of the COMMANDED items even 1,400years in the time of Christ - except for the parable of the non-living, hypothetical, self-righteous man in the parable who was NOT JUSTIFIED (Luk 18:9-14). Every time the examples of those who tithed in Israel was written in the scriptures, it was referring to agric produce and were to be eaten or were eaten.

If he does that he would be re-writing HISTORY!

***It therefore means that

1. The Israelites INCREASED in agric produce
2. The Israelites INCREASED in ways other than FOOD e.g. cash, shekels, gold, etc
3. The Israelites were commanded to set apart tithes of agric produce Lev 27:30-34, Mal 3:10
4. The Israelites tithed food per command of the Lord 2 Chron 31:4-10, Num 18:21-30, Deut, Neh etc
5. There was NO INSTRUCTION/COMMANDMENT to tithe 'OTHER ITEMS' apart from agric produce
6. There are NO EXAMPLES of ISRAELITES tithing 'OTHER ITEMS' other than food per Lev 27. Apart from maybe the 'non-living, hypothetical,self-righteous man in the parable of the pharisee in Luk 18:9-14
7. We can then conclude that:

NOT EVERY 10% INCREASE IN ISRAEL WAS HOLY AND BELONGED TO GOD AS TITHE.

ONLY AGRIC PRODUCE according to Lev 27:30-34 were HOLY AND BELONG TO GOD

NOT ALL ISRAELITES TITHED, ONLY THOSE WITH THE ITEMS in Lev 27:30-34

THERE IS NO COMMANDMENT THAT ALL/EVERY 10% INCREASE MUST BE TITHED (whether for Christians or Israelites)

NOT EVERY 10% INCREASE for CHRISTIANS IS HOLY AND BELONGS TO GOD AS TITHE. The early gentile CHRISTIANS DIDN'T TITHE!

Those who insist every Christian MUST TITHE are DECLARING a man made doctrine

Those who insist the man earning N5,000 whose son is dying and needs to add his tithe 10% (N500) to what he has to pay for hospital bills, those who say HE MUST NOT DO SO because the man would be robbing God are lying! That he must give the N500 to pastor.

If you DONT teach the entire truth on tithing; that it is not compulsory, that NOT EVERY TENTH belongs to God, that early gentile Christians DIDN'T TITHE, thaT EVEN ISRAELITES who were COMMANDED by God to TITHE had some ISRAELITES who were EXEMPT as not every 10th in Israel was HOLY and BELONGED to God; If you don't teach that, you would be keeping them in darkness regarding the TRUTH OF GOD'S WORD; You would be keeping them in blindness - DO NOT PUT A STUMBLING BLOCK infront of the BLIND but FEAR your God

Do not allow that Child die due to MAN-MADE commandments that he will rob God if he uses his N500 for hospital bills.

Jem1:
Those who insist the man earning N5,000 whose son is dying and needs to add his tithe 10% (N500) to what he has to pay for hospital bills, those who say HE MUST NOT DO SO because the man would be robbing God are lying! That he must give the N500 to pastor.

Do not allow that Child die due to MAN-MADE commandments that he will rob God if he uses his N500 for hospital bills.

Any vermin that goes to the extent of preaching the above to enforce tithes is clearly inspired by the devil and such a preacher would surely have his/her part in the lake of fire except he/her repents.

waoh, one really can't force the horse to drink. BTW debo, i am curious, who said tithe has to be out of the 'promised land', and which are the two largest churches you reference and which of the tithe 'classes' do they teach?

@image123:

I am sure you have heard the term "Nation of Islam" before! Humor me but please tell us who made up that nation of Islam and in which setting they exist?