Please let us not argue what is even plain to the blind.Whether u drink little,smoke just some sticks,ur obviously in the act.ok tell me what name do use in classifying someone that smoke and another that drinks?are they not call smoker and drunkard as well?.i can't say much about smoking cos I don't know what to say about it.but u see drinking of alcohol brings u down spiritually.it limit u to a certain level of awareness in the things of God.so drinking is not good to me

Nothing much to say here than to caution all; remember the Bible said in the last days fauls prophet will come among You and I think before U all say what U are not suppose to this thread and Pastor Chris has succeeded in causing confusion among everybody here....even to the extent of leading others astray. Let Ur believe be to U and let God open Ur eyes of Understanding... Shikenan

Thank you Pastor for bringing in new drunkers to our midst and the breweries company must regard your payment in bulk for the advertisement.

So JESUS was a drunk eh? To reply your posts, read these and make your conclusions


And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. 21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.
Deut 21:20-21 (KJV)

And it come to pass, when he heareth the words of this curse, that he bless himself in his heart, saying, I shall have peace, though I walk in the imagination of mine heart, to add drunkenness to thirst: 20 The Lord will not spare him, but then the anger of the Lord and his jealousy shall smoke against that man, and all the curses that are written in this book shall lie upon him, and the Lord shall blot out his name from under heaven. 21 And the Lord shall separate him unto evil out of all the tribes of Israel, according to all the curses of the covenant that are written in this book of the law:
Deut 29:19-21 (KJV)

And Eli said unto her, How long wilt thou be drunken? put away thy wine from thee. 15 And Hannah answered and said, No, my lord, I am a woman of a sorrowful spirit: I have drunk neither wine nor strong drink, but have poured out my soul before the Lord.
1 Sam 1:14-15 (KJV)

Note the distinction between wine and strong drink

They that sit in the gate speak against me; and I was the song of the drunkards.
Psalms 69:12 (KJV)

Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.
Prov 20:1 (KJV)

He that loveth pleasure shall be a poor man: he that loveth wine and oil shall not be rich.
Prov 21:17 (KJV)

Be not among winebibbers;
Prov 23:20 (KJV)

For the drunkard and the glutton shall come to poverty: and drowsiness shall clothe a man with rags.
Prov 23:21 (KJV)

Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes? 30 They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine. 31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. 32 At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder.
Prov 23:29-32 (KJV)

It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink: 5 Lest they drink, and forget the law, and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted. 6 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish[font=Lucida Sans Unicode][/font][/color], and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts. 7 Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.
Prov 31:4-7 (KJV)

Woe unto them that rise up early in the morning, that they may follow strong drink; that continue until night, till wine inflame them!
Isaiah 5:11 (KJV)

Woe unto them that are mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink:
Isaiah 5:22 (KJV)

The Lord hath mingled a perverse spirit in the midst thereof: and they have caused Egypt to err in every work thereof, as a drunken man staggereth in his vomit.
Isaiah 19:14 (KJV)

They shall not drink wine with a song; strong drink shall be bitter to them that drink it.
Isaiah 24:9 (KJV)

There is a crying for wine in the streets; all joy is darkened, the mirth of the land is gone. 12 In the city is left desolation, and the gate is smitten with destruction.
Isaiah 24:11-12 (KJV)

Woe to the crown of pride, to the drunkards of Ephraim, whose glorious beauty is a fading flower, which are on the head of the fat valleys of them that are overcome with wine!
Isaiah 28:1 (KJV)

Come ye, say they, I will fetch wine, and we will fill ourselves with strong drink; and to morrow shall be as this day, and much more abundant.
Isaiah 56:12 (KJV)

Therefore thou shalt say unto them, Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel; Drink ye, and be drunken, and spue, and fall, and rise no more, because of the sword which I will send among you. 28 And it shall be, if they refuse to take the cup at thine hand to drink, then shalt thou say unto them, Thus saith the Lord of hosts; Ye shall certainly drink. 29 For, lo, I begin to bring evil on the city which is called by my name, and should ye be utterly unpunished? Ye shall not be unpunished: for I will call for a sword upon all the inhabitants of the earth, saith the Lord of hosts.
Jer 25:27-29 (KJV)

Whoredom and wine and new wine take away the heart.
Hosea 4:11 (KJV)

In the day of our king the princes have made him sick with bottles of wine; he stretched out his hand with scorners
Hosea 7:5 (KJV)

And they have not cried unto me with their heart, when they howled upon their beds: they assemble themselves for corn and wine, and they rebel against me
Hosea 7:14 (KJV)

Awake, ye drunkards, and weep; and howl, all ye drinkers of wine[color=#990000], because of the new wine; for it is cut off from your mouth.
Joel 1:5 (KJV)

Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink[b][/b], that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken also, that thou mayest look on their unclothedness! 16 Thou art filled with shame for glory: drink thou also, and let thy foreskin be uncovered: the cup of the Lord'S right hand shall be turned unto thee, and shameful spewing shall be on thy glory
Hab 2:15-16 (KJV)

Let me know if you need more verses to be convinced that Christians need to run very far away from alcohol wink

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Re: Nothing Wrong With Alcohol, Cigarette – Pastor Chris Oyakhilome? <<Rumor?>> by Reference(m): 59 minutes & 41 seconds
Biblical texts are finite. The bible is only 300 pages (there about) just like Jesus Christ taught (actively) for only three years. You can't cover the spectrum of all truths in such a time and in such a book. He said let the spirit lead you in ALL truth. Arguments over texts are futile. We will swim or sink on the evience of our convictions. Sometime, somewhere, something will have told us and we will have either rejected or accepted it. That is the basis of judgement.

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Re: Nothing Wrong With Alcohol, Cigarette – Pastor Chris Oyakhilome? <<Rumor?>> by lugado: 59 minutes & 22 seconds

simmos: You don't need every law to be stated in the bible before you know what is good or bad, read galatians 5:19-21 and galatians 6:7-9, smoking and drunken is bad because its the work of the flesh and also uncleanness in God eyes



So if it's a sin †̥ drink and smoke.Are you saying that those working in breweries and cigerette companies are sinners and they should leave their jobs? Or are u saying since jesus turned water into wine and mary begged him into doing made them sinners

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Re: Nothing Wrong With Alcohol, Cigarette – Pastor Chris Oyakhilome? <<Rumor?>> by lugado: 58 minutes & 26 seconds

simmos: You don't need every law to be stated in the bible before you know what is good or bad, read galatians 5:19-21 and galatians 6:7-9, smoking and drunken is bad because its the work of the flesh and also uncleanness in God eyes



So if it's a sin †̥ drink and smoke.Are you saying that those working in breweries and cigerette companies are sinners and they should leave their jobs? Or are u saying since jesus turned water into wine and mary begged him into doing it made them sinners?

God Bless you abundantly..

You christians amuse me sometimes with the arguments you have amongst yourselves. Smoking and drinking are bad habits only when done excessively. The occasional bottle of beer will not 'damn your soul'.
_
Use your brains people to know when your habits become hazardous to your/others' health.

rastamouse:

Except for medical reasons, why would any sane person want to drink alcohol when he does not intend to be drunk? When is one considered drunk? Is it only when his speech is blurred? No one should deceive him or herself. We have the right to everything but it is not everything that is good for us.

When Lamuel's mother was advising him in Proverbs 31:4, she stated that it is not good for kings and princes to drink wine. Note that she did not say to get drunk but to drink wine. Before anyone asks, let me point out that we Christians are Princes in the Kingdom of GOD.

Paul also pointed to us that our bodies are the Temple of the LORD. Why must we defile it with alcohol and cigarette when the LORD intends to stay in our heart.

Alcohol and smoking is not for us Christians!

what part of your body does God stay? your heart of veins and arteries? because you don't need alcohol or cigarette to defile it, what you need is to eat junk food

the far-to-see and sad-to-see accuse Jesus that his disciples defile themselves by not washing their hands before they ate according to the law, Jesus' replied them asking how can not washing their physical hands defile a man, its not what goes into a man but what comes out. we know that what comes out of a man is what he has stored in his heart(spirit) because Jesus once said "a good man out of the good treasures of his heart, brings forth good things; same as way an evil heart brings forth evil". Every one shall be judged by every idle word spoken. your very salvation comes as a result of the conviction of the heart (spirit) and confession of the mouth Rom 10:9-10. what comes out of your heart through the mouth is what defiles you according to the words of Jesus.

the heart God dwells is your spirit because God is a spirit not in the physical one that pumps blood that's why you don't see Gods when you open a human body. what defiles your spirit is the word you speak or else tell me how cigarette or alcohol can defile your spirit where God dwells. if you still don't agree, you should agree that the junk food you eat and sugar you take one way or the other that affects your phyical heart is SiN.

that i drank something, does it make me a drunkard?
that i ate food, does it make me a glutton?

the bible only qualifies it as sin when it is done in excess beyond a measure that is deemed moderate as Apostle Paul taught.

in the new testament, the only "Law" Jesus gave is in John 13:34 to "love one another as i have loved you" not "as you love yourself". John 15;12. and Paul taught whatever is not done out of love is Sin according to the new testament.

with Love in your spirit and demonstrated outwardly, no one has to tell you what is right to do or not to do because God is love and anyone that loveth is born of God and knoweth God 1john 4:7-8.

Folks, I'd like to know how does taking wine make you less spiritual and righteous. how not takin makes you more spiritual and righteous.
It takes revelation to teach the gospel and real boldness to preach it.

toorich:

what part of your body does God stay? your heart of veins and arteries? because you don't need alcohol or cigarette to defile it, what you need is to eat junk food

the far-to-see and sad-to-see accuse Jesus that his disciples defile themselves by not washing their hands before they ate according to the law, Jesus' replied them asking how can not washing their physical hands defile a man, its not what goes into a man but what comes out. we know that what comes out of a man is what he has stored in his heart(spirit) because Jesus once said "a good man out of the good treasures of his heart, brings forth good things; same as way an evil heart brings forth evil". Every one shall be judged by every idle word spoken. your very salvation comes as a result of the conviction of the heart (spirit) and confession of the mouth Rom 10:9-10. what comes out of your heart through the mouth is what defiles you according to the words of Jesus.

the heart God dwells is your spirit because God is a spirit not in the physical one that pumps blood that's why you don't see Gods when you open a human body. what defiles your spirit is the word you speak or else tell me how cigarette or alcohol can defile your spirit where God dwells. if you still don't agree, you should agree that the junk food you eat and sugar you take one way or the other that affects your phyical heart is SiN.

that i drank something, does it make me a drunkard?
that i ate food, does it make me a glutton?

the bible only qualifies it as sin when it is done in excess beyond a measure that is deemed moderate as Apostle Paul taught.

in the new testament, the only "Law" Jesus gave is in John 13:34 to "love one another as i have loved you" not "as you love yourself". John 15;12. and Paul taught whatever is not done out of love is Sin according to the new testament.

with Love in your spirit and demonstrated outwardly, no one has to tell you what is right to do or not to do because God is love and anyone that loveth is born of God and knoweth God 1john 4:7-8.

LOL at the bold part...

However on a serious note, I must say that the line that you are towing is very dangerous. If you are very matured in Christianity, you will come to realize that the line between good and bad is very slim and fine. In fact, that is the reason why very matured Christians sometimes fall into sins that shocks the world.

The Bible makes it extremely clear that wine is not the same as strong drink. Why do you think that GOD will make the distinction between the two if they were the same?

Those who preach moderation have got it all wrong. What is moderation? A glass? A tot? A pint? A drop? A gallon (for Ojika )? That definition is very subjective.

Why then will you teach anyone to drink moderately? When we were younger, my senior sister strayed once and went out with some guys. When she came home, she had vomited all over herself and was not conscious. She had to be rushed to the hospital. When the guys were questioned, they said that my sister just took a sip of Guinness. Was a sip moderate in the case of my sister?

Believe the Bible when it says alcohol is a serpent...it will only bite you in the end!

taking of alcohol aint no sin,drunkeness is a sin.nothing should be taken in excess.even christ broke bread and gave wine to his disciples.people will say it was non alcoholic wine,if it wasnt alcoholic,it shlda bin called grape juice.even water was turned to wine @ d wedding.as for smoking,dnt knw if its a sin or nt.

Pastor Chris is very correct in this matter. I do not drink or smoke neither am i a christ embassy member but if u study the scriptures in between the lines and keep an open mind, u would know this truth. beside's its not about what goes into u but rather what comes out.

Chris and his numerous 'Pastors' must have made up their mind to go to hell, the followers need to open their eyes through the scripture and don't allow themselves to be misled. Acts 17:11. NEXT THING YOU MAY HEAR FROM CHRIS IS THAT NOTHING IS WRONG WITH SAME-SEX MARRIAGE

[b][/b][b][/b]1Corr:6:12: All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

Most of us christians condemn ourselves unecessarily.
Firstly, let us look at the content of Alcoholic drinks. Alcohol.
Many things we eat or drink contains alcohol. For instance: Garri, Tonic, even Cakes, etc. Chemistry students can attest to this. Does eating these things makes us a sinner in anyway? NO NO.

Look at what Jesus said:
Matt:15:11: Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

What was the first miracle of Jesus? Remember that the chairman of that ocassion, who probably is an unbeliever said where have they kept this good wine.

Why did paul adviced Timothy to drink wine because of his ailment?

However, God does not expect or want us to drink to stupor.
1Corr:6:12: All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

God does not want us to be under the boundage of anything, He doesn't want us to be under the influence of alcohol or anything, be it food, money, whatsoever. The moment you make anything a custom, it is forbidden

It will become a sin when you drink and you begin to wag nonsense with your tongue, when you drink so much that you cannot think straight anylonger. Even when you're so much addicted to eating, it is a sin.

I want to state something clearly here. This is a truth, but the truth is not meant for everyone. There are some people whose spiritual level/standard cannot handle the truth the way it is. They see this kind of truth as an opportunity to destroy themselves. Wreck their own economy and life as a result of excessive smoking.

As for smoking, I forbid it totally because it has no advantage at all. We abuse this too much in Africa. White guys don't smoke a packet of cigarette in a day even with their cold weather.

gboss4sure: If Pastor Chris really said that, then he has deviated from the path of righteousness. Everyone knows what is bad and good even though they might not admit it but in their heart they knows is bad.

does your moral judgement now qualify something to be SIN? are you the God that invented righteousness to know what it is or what it is not? thou holier than thou. base your deductions from the scriptures my friend

rastamouse:
The Bible makes it extremely clear that wine is not the same as strong drink. Why do you think that GOD will make the distinction between the two if they were the same?

wine could be as potent as strong drink if the wine is taken in excess.
simply put, the difference between wine and a strong drink is the percentage
of the alcoholic content in them.

for non-alcoholic wine, it's less than 0.5% alcoholic content.
for beer and beverages, it's around 5-12%. for strong drinks, it's 15% or more.
so if you take beer in excess, the alcoholic content can tip the scales and it
would seem like you have taken a very strong drink.

coogar:

wine could be as potent as strong drink if the wine is taken in excess.
simply put, the difference between wine and a strong drink is the percentage
of the alcoholic content in them.

for non-alcoholic wine, it's less than 0.5% alcoholic content.
for beer and beverages, it's around 5-12%. for strong drinks, it's 15% or more.
so if you take beer in excess, the alcoholic content can tip the scales and it
would seem like you have taken a very strong drink.

Which one is Pastor Chris saying is not a sin?

rastamouse: Has Pastor Chris read in the Bible that drunks will not be in Heaven? How do you get drunk?

Ignoramus on the loose! what was Noah mainly known for when God called and Judged him and his household the most and only righteous then?

francis247: Ignoramus on the loose! what was Noah mainly known for when God called and Judged him and his household the most and only righteous then?

Was there any record of Noah taking alcohol before the flood? After Noah took the wine, what happened? Will you like to find Pastor Chris in such a situation? Will you still follow him if he is shown on TV with his manhood?

rastamouse:

Which one is Pastor Chris saying is not a sin?

there's no sin in drinking alcohol. moderation is the key!
some alcoholic drinks are medicinal but one must have self control
in everything they ingest.

it's a fact food kill more people than alcohol and tobacco put together.
gluttony is the sin - not the food.
drunkeness is the sin - not the drink.

coogar:

there's no sin in drinking alcohol. moderation is the key!
some alcoholic drinks are medicinal but one must have self control
in everything they ingest.

it's a fact food kill more people than alcohol and tobacco put together.
gluttony is the sin - not the food.
drunkeness is the sin - not the drink.

Can you define moderation for me? For the sake of those who will want to take some wine but not sin

All these are lies, one person is busy introducing topic why others contribute just to make jest of man of God and to derive joy in nonsense. Is there no better thing to talk about? If everyone is like Pastor Chris I bet you , God Himself will come down to Earth to dine with us. Be careful of what you discus and derive joy in, it could be exactly what will stop you from seeing God at the last day.

If at all he said so, what is your judgment within yourself? Will you now drink to stupor and smoke just because one man said its good?

Right from time,i av always belive that chris is not a genuine man of God.so whoever is going to that church is wasting his or her time.

rastamouse:
Can you define moderation for me? For the sake of those who will want to take some wine but not sin

moderation can be defined as the level of drinking that poses a low risk
of alcohol-related problems, both for the drinker and for others. it varies from
individual to individual. every individual should know his breaking point.

2 drinks a day for an adult male
a drink a day for an adult female.

rastamouse:

So JESUS was a drunk eh? To reply your posts, read these and make your conclusions


And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. 21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.
Deut 21:20-21 (KJV)

And it come to pass, when he heareth the words of this curse, that he bless himself in his heart, saying, I shall have peace, though I walk in the imagination of mine heart, to add drunkenness to thirst: 20 The Lord will not spare him, but then the anger of the Lord and his jealousy shall smoke against that man, and all the curses that are written in this book shall lie upon him, and the Lord shall blot out his name from under heaven. 21 And the Lord shall separate him unto evil out of all the tribes of Israel, according to all the curses of the covenant that are written in this book of the law:

Deut 29:19-21 (KJV)
And Eli said unto her, How long wilt thou be drunken? put away thy wine from thee. 15 And Hannah answered and said, No, my lord, I am a woman of a sorrowful spirit: I have drunk neither wine [/b]nor [b]strong drink, but have poured out my soul before the Lord.
1 Sam 1:14-15 (KJV)

Note the distinction between wine and strong drink

They that sit in the gate speak against me; and I was the song of the drunkards.
Psalms 69:12 (KJV)

Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.
Prov 20:1 (KJV)

He that loveth pleasure shall be a poor man: he that loveth wine and oil shall not be rich.
Prov 21:17 (KJV)

Be not among winebibbers;
Prov 23:20 (KJV)

For the drunkard and the glutton shall come to poverty: and drowsiness shall clothe a man with rags.
Prov 23:21 (KJV)

Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes? 30 They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine. 31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. 32 At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder.
Prov 23:29-32 (KJV)

It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink: 5 Lest they drink, and forget the law, and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted. 6 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish[/font][/color], and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts. 7 Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.
Prov 31:4-7 (KJV)

Woe unto them that rise up early in the morning, that they may follow strong drink; that continue until night, till wine inflame them!
Isaiah 5:11 (KJV)

Woe unto them that are mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink:
Isaiah 5:22 (KJV)

The Lord hath mingled a perverse spirit in the midst thereof: and they have caused Egypt to err in every work thereof, as a drunken man staggereth in his vomit.
Isaiah 19:14 (KJV)

They shall not drink wine with a song; strong drink shall be bitter to them that drink it.
Isaiah 24:9 (KJV)

There is a crying for wine in the streets; all joy is darkened, the mirth of the land is gone. 12 In the city is left desolation, and the gate is smitten with destruction.
Isaiah 24:11-12 (KJV)

Woe to the crown of pride, to the drunkards of Ephraim, whose glorious beauty is a fading flower, which are on the head of the fat valleys of them that are overcome with wine!
Isaiah 28:1 (KJV)

Come ye, say they, I will fetch wine, and we will fill ourselves with strong drink; and to morrow shall be as this day, and much more abundant.
Isaiah 56:12 (KJV)

Therefore thou shalt say unto them, Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel; Drink ye, and be drunken, and spue, and fall, and rise no more, because of the sword which I will send among you. 28 And it shall be, if they refuse to take the cup at thine hand to drink, then shalt thou say unto them, Thus saith the Lord of hosts; Ye shall certainly drink. 29 For, lo, I begin to bring evil on the city which is called by my name, and should ye be utterly unpunished? Ye shall not be unpunished: for I will call for a sword upon all the inhabitants of the earth, saith the Lord of hosts.
Jer 25:27-29 (KJV)

Whoredom and wine and new wine take away the heart.
Hosea 4:11 (KJV)

In the day of our king the princes have made him sick with bottles of wine; he stretched out his hand with scorners
Hosea 7:5 (KJV)

And they have not cried unto me with their heart, when they howled upon their beds: they assemble themselves for corn and wine, and they rebel against me
Hosea 7:14 (KJV)

Awake, ye drunkards, and weep; and howl, all ye drinkers of wine[color=#990000], because of the new wine; for it is cut off from your mouth.
Joel 1:5 (KJV)

Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken also, that thou mayest look on their unclothedness! 16 Thou art filled with shame for glory: drink thou also, and let thy foreskin be uncovered: the cup of the Lord'S right hand shall be turned unto thee, and shameful spewing shall be on thy glory
Hab 2:15-16 (KJV)

Let me know if you need more verses to be convinced that Christians need to run very far away from alcohol

I just went through your rather long post in which you tried very hard to make it seem like the bible expressly forbids drinking of wine/strong drink & new wine.

First and foremost sir, I noticed that you were trying to talk about Jesus's drinking habits and only made reference to the Old testament in all the scriptures you quoted. . Thats very decietful at best and cunning.

Secondly, let me draw your attention to certain details of your quotations that may be lost on you if you only give them a cursory glance as against reading to comprehend what the scripture is inffering and in what context its represented. I shall take most of YOUR quotations and dissect them for clarity, please feel free to correct me where you disagree;


And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. 21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.
Deut 21:20-21 (KJV)

Keywords here are as follows; Stubborn & rebellious which speaks to the character of the son in question here. This same scripture also goes ahead to describe the same son as disobidient. NOW the most important aspect of this scripture as related to the subject matter of this thread is GLUTTONY & DRUNKINESS. Both these words refer to excesses. Eating is not a sin, but gluttony is. Drinking is not a sin, but Drunkeness is. . .


And it come to pass, when he heareth the words of this curse, that he bless himself in his heart, saying, I shall have peace, though I walk in the imagination of mine heart, to add drunkenness to thirst: 20 The Lord will not spare him, but then the anger of the Lord and his jealousy shall smoke against that man, and all the curses that are written in this book shall lie upon him, and the Lord shall blot out his name from under heaven. 21 And the Lord shall separate him unto evil out of all the tribes of Israel, according to all the curses of the covenant that are written in this book of the law:

Deut 29:19-21 (KJV)

Keyword from this scripture again remains DRUNKENESS. . And if you bothered to read through the several translations you would notice that this scripture has nothing to do with drinking at all.


And Eli said unto her, How long wilt thou be drunken? put away thy wine from thee. 15 And Hannah answered and said, No, my lord, I am a woman of a sorrowful spirit: I have drunk neither wine [/i]nor [i]strong drink, but have poured out my soul before the Lord.
1 Sam 1:14-15 (KJV)

Whats the point!!

Eli was asking Hannah why she was acting like a drunk. Cos she was prolly praying in a weird way. Again the problem here was being drunk.

Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise. Prov 20:1 (KJV)

This only goes to point to the fact that wine has alcohol in it and strong drink refers to something much stronger like spirits.


He that loveth pleasure shall be a poor man: he that loveth wine and oil shall not be rich.
Prov 21:17 (KJV)

I mean! Once more the Bible is here talking about Drunkeness. A lover of wine if french for drunkard. If you wanted to take this scripture raw, then "lover of oil" is what?! A lover of crude oil or groundnut oil or scented oil (which I believe they are refering to.) The keyword here as well remains drunkeness.

Be not among winebibbers;
Prov 23:20 (KJV)

DEFINITION OF WINEBIBBERS/BIBBING
wine·bib·bing
Given to much drinking of wine.

Habitual drinking of wine

So if this is the case, then we are talking about drunkeness here again.


[b]For the drunkard and the glutton shall come to poverty: and drowsiness shall clothe a man with rags.
Prov 23:21 (KJV)

Again, DRUNKENESS (excess drinking), GLUTTONY (a person who eats a lot of food) and LAZINESS which in itself is associated with drunk and overfed people.

[size=14pt]FOOD FOR THOUGHT: Since the bible has repeatedly talked negatively about gluttony, does that in turn make being over weight (which is a result of excess food and lack of exercise borne out of laziness) a sin. . [/size]

Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes? 30 They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine. 31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. 32 At the last it [b]biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder.
Prov 23:29-32 (KJV)[/b]

Beautiful scripture. . But you left it half way through. . . Here are the following chapters;

33. Your eyes will see strange sights and your mind imagine confusing things. 34. You will be like one sleeping on the high seas, lying on top of the rigging. 35. They hit me," you will say, "but I'm not hurt! They beat me, but I don't feel it! When will I wake up so I can find another drink?"

Clearly, this is talking about drunkards yet again.

It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink: 5 Lest they drink, and forget the law, and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted. 6 [b]Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish[font=Lucida Sans Unicode][color=#990000][/color], and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts. 7 Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.
Prov 31:4-7 (KJV)[/b]

Now, in itself, this scripture comes across as condemning drinking outrightly. . . NO!!

Looking at this verse analytically, only a person who has drank himself to stupor would be so inebriated tha they become forgetful and unaware of their environment. This scripture still points towards drunkeness, but also encourages abstanance lest you get carried away and become drunk.

Woe unto them that rise up early in the morning, that they may follow strong drink; that continue until night, till wine inflame them!
Isaiah 5:11 (KJV)

If this scripture dosent best describe a drunkard such as Nkem Owoh (Osuofia) plays in our local movies then I'll be damned.


The Lord hath mingled a perverse spirit in the midst thereof: and they have caused Egypt to err in every work thereof, as a drunken man staggereth in his vomit.
Isaiah 19:14 (KJV)

Keyword; Drunken man.

Woe to the crown of pride, to the drunkards of Ephraim, whose glorious beauty is a fading flower, which are on the head of the fat valleys of them that are overcome with wine!
Isaiah 28:1 (KJV)

Same as above. . . Drunkards


And I could keep doing this to all those scriptures you pointed to. . . .

Now! If we both agree that wine as quoted in the bible is alcoholic, and Jesus drank wine on several occasions, and even turned water into premium grade wine as testified to by many in the bible, then its either Jesus was a sinner, or you dont have a point. . .

Drunkeness is a sin. . . Drinking (with moderation) isnt. . .


Halleluyah!!


Evangelist Dr. Alusi Okija. . .

rastamouse:

LOL at the bold part...

However on a serious note, I must say that the line that you are towing is very dangerous. If you are very matured in Christianity, you will come to realize that the line between good and bad is very slim and fine. In fact, t[b]hat is the reason why very matured Christians sometimes fall into sins that shocks the world.[/b]

T[b]he Bible makes it extremely clear that wine is not the same as strong drink. Why do you think that GOD will make the distinction between the two if they were the same? [/b]

Those who preach moderation have got it all wrong. What is moderation? A glass? A tot? A pint? A drop? A gallon (for Ojika )? That definition is very subjective.

Why then will you teach anyone to drink moderately? When we were younger, my senior sister strayed once and went out with some guys. When she came home, she had vomited all over herself and was not conscious. She had to be rushed to the hospital. When the guys were questioned, they said that my sister just took a sip of Guinness. Was a sip moderate in the case of my sister?

Believe the Bible when it says alcohol is a serpent...it will only bite you in the end!

"thin line between good and bad" - very wrong

your statement is not scriptural. the bible teaches what fellowship is there between light and darkness? righteousness or unrighteousness? the light shines in darkness and darkness comprehends it not(John 12:2-4). the line is not thin my friend, it is a "nature apart"
or you can as well say there is a thin line between God and the devil.
the reason many "mature" christian fall is the lack of knowledge of the scriptures especially when they assume things they think God said that God never because they never study to know or where they do not put the word to work or are totally ignorant of it.
According to Jams 2, a mature christian is one that knows how to control his tongue and speak only in consonant with the word not his belief or how long he or she has been a christian nor by grey hair, so understand this criteria from the scriptures before you call someone a "mature christian"
Right living does not make you righteous, because Righteousness is a given by God only(as a gift 1corth 5:17), its righteousness that produces right living


please from your bible, can you describe which wine is ordinary or strong drink, did he tell us the content? make? or the percentage we should look out for to know which we should take or not (scriptures pls?)

who made alcohol? was it satan?
no, it was God who made all things including the alcohol and he saw that it was good.
alcohol is good in itself but becomes abusive when taken out of proportion which is why God wants us to be moderate, and you re not under compulsion to drink it where you know you don't need it.

tell your sist that if her body can't take it, then she don't need it. for what purpose was it taken in the first place? if it's not from a reasonable motive then it wrong. that's why excessiveness is sin because it's not done for the right motive. Apostle Paul admonished timothy to take a little for this stomach sake(motive). this is what it means to be moderate. all this God made has more advantages because that was they were created in the first place, but because of sin in the world, nature became corrupted that's why we can see disadvantages in them. same why alcohol was made for human advantage but when it's abused (taken "excessive" which is "the sin" of taking it) we can see it as a disadvantage.

if you undertake a biologically analysis, you will find out that the advantage of alcohol in the human system (in the right proportion the body needs-moderation) far outweighs the disadvantages.

toorich:


"thin line between good and bad" - very wrong

your statement is not scriptural. the bible teaches what fellowship is there between light and darkness? righteousness or unrighteousness? the light shines in darkness and darkness comprehends it not(John 12:2-4). the line is not thin my friend, it is a "nature apart"
or you can as well say there is a thin line between God and the devil.
the reason many "mature" christian fall is the lack of knowledge of the scriptures especially when they assume things they think God said that God never because they never study to know or where they do not put the word to work or are totally ignorant of it.
According to Jams 2, a mature christian is one that knows how to control his tongue and speak only in consonant with the word not his belief or how long he or she has been a christian nor by grey hair, so understand this criteria from the scriptures before you call someone a "mature christian"
Right living does not make you righteous, because Righteousness is a given by God only(as a gift 1corth 5:17), its righteousness that produces right living


please from your bible, can you describe which wine is ordinary or strong drink, did he tell us the content? make? or the percentage we should look out for to know which we should take or not (scriptures pls?)

who made alcohol? was it satan?
no, it was God who made all things including the alcohol and he saw that it was good.
alcohol is good in itself but becomes abusive when taken out of proportion which is why God wants us to be moderate, and you re not under compulsion to drink it where you know you don't need it.

tell your sist that if her body can't take it, then she don't need it. for what purpose was it taken in the first place? if it's not from a reasonable motive then it wrong. that's why excessiveness is sin because it's not done for the right motive. Apostle Paul admonished timothy to take a little for this stomach sake(motive). this is what it means to be moderate. all this God made has more advantages because that was they were created in the first place, but because of sin in the world, nature became corrupted that's why we can see disadvantages in them. same why alcohol was made for human advantage but when it's abused (taken "excessive" which is "the sin" of taking it) we can see it as a disadvantage.

if you undertake a biologically analysis, you will find out that the advantage of alcohol in the human system (in the right proportion the body needs-moderation) far outweighs the disadvantages.

Let me ask you a question. You can only understand this if you are a bit matured in the scriptures so answer well.

Was Elijah justified when he killed the 450 baal prophets? (Hint: read events leading up to and after. You may also read about John the Baptist)

I am beginning to get piss off by the things this man says, the other time was that self service was good and this time is that there is nothing wrong with alcohol and cigarette, even when he knows that cigarette is dangerous to health, well see what the Bible says about taking alcohol in Proverbs 20:1. Well my advice is be not deceived for God is not mocked for whatever a man sows that he will reap. Again never be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings. please take heed.

[color=#990000][/color]Drinking alcohol is not as sin; getting drunk is.
As eating is not a sin but gluttony is.

Smoking is not necessarily a sin but its a bad habit.
As staying too close to the TV is not necessarily a sin but a bad habit.

I think you, have a point. Every one is entitle to its own opinion. What realy matters is how much love u show.

nancyekpoh: I am beginning to get piss off by the things this man says, the other time was that self service was good and this time is that there is nothing wrong with alcohol and cigarette, even when he knows that cigarette is dangerous to health, well see what the Bible says about taking alcohol in Proverbs 20:1. Well my advice is be not deceived for God is not mocked for whatever a man sows that he will reap. Again never be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings. please take heed.

Read through the posts herein and be schooled. The man only said the truth that most christians shy away from.

rastamouse:

Let me ask you a question. You can only understand this if you are a bit matured in the scriptures so answer well.

Was Elijah justified when he killed the 450 baal prophets? (Hint: read events leading up to and after. You may also read about John the Baptist)

According to the law of the old testament given by Moses, the children of Isreal were not to LovePeddler after other gods but to serve God with all their might. there were consequences for idolatry, those who do such were to be cut out and destroyed one way or the other, most times God delivers the whole nation to their enemies when they go after other gods and refuse to repent. Elijah functioned in the old testament and did what God commanded them to do to idolaters according to the law of Moses, so according to the law under which he functioned, he was justified.

your point?

[b]ONE QUESTION I WILL LIKE EVERYONE TO ANSWER HERE IS THIS

****** WHO MADE THE PALM TREE AND PUT ALCOHOL IN PALM WINE ?*********

AS FOR THE CITRATE I THINK ITS WRONG BECAUSE THE BODY IS THE TEMPLE AND WHOEVER DESTROYS THE TEMPLE WILL BE DESTROYED SO IF YOU ARE BRINGING IN CANCER , YOU ARE DESTROYING THE BODY.

BUT FOR ALCOHOL , I CANT SAY THE SAME, THERE IS PALM WINE WHICH IS NATURAL AND CONTAINS ALCOHOL NATURAL , SO ARE WE GOING TO SAY THAT ITS IS A SIN TO DRINK PALM WINE THAT GOD CREATED ? WHEN HE SAID WE SHOULD NOT CALL WHAT HE CREATED UNCLEAN ?

IF GOD CREATED THE PALM TREE AND LET MAN DISCOVER PALM WINE , THEN I DONT THINK ITS WRONG TO DRINK, BUT DONT GET DRUNK .I REMEMBER JESUS WENT FOR A PARTY IN A TAX COLLECTORS HOUSE IN THE BIBLE AND IM SURE THERE WAS ALCOHOLIC WINE BUT HE DID NOT CONDEMN THEM, I AM NOT SAYING JESUS DRANK OOO.

THE FIRST MIRACLE JESUS PERFORMED WAS TO TURN WATER INTO WINE, WE WERE NOT THERE TO KNOW WHICH TYPE . BUT ITS THE EXCESS OF ANYTHING IN MY OPINION IS WAT MAKES IT A SIN .

[/b]

Naija!! Jesus Christ did not turn water into fruit juice, he turned it into wine. Wine features prominently in d Bible, not zobo or juice...... Alcohol is bad when abused like wise smoking, d challenge is fighting d addiction. I bet some of u will say smoking a pipe is no sin but cigarrettes are....