LordAdamX:


You're now comparing us to Everton?

Nope, I simply provided an European team which defenders take PK but feel free to move the goalposts

And Alonso is now a defender?

Seems you'd be okay with Casimiro taking PKs then

All of these are outliers. Are you familiar with that concept?

So? why can't ours be one of the outliers or is it no longer legal?

So what Thiago should take the penalty instead of Neymar or Cavani in PSG. Kompany instead of Aguero. Hummels instead of Lewandowski, Ribery, or Robben? If Messi isn't on the pitch, Pique should take it?

If each of those defenders show they're better than those strikers then they should take it! especially high stake penalties!!

You're desperately trying hard to make a sensible argument sound absurd

Do you even read what you type? Benzema had 11 goals in total last season. CR7 even had to give him a PK to score at some point. Now he gets a good thing going for him and should have had a double considering he even helped draw the penalty foul and a defender gets to take a penalty while he is on the pitch.

Benzema was given penalty because his confidence in front if goal was low and we had a healthy lead. if it were against atletico at 1-1 Ronaldo would never have given him the PK!!

That you drew penalty doesn't mean you should take it, If that's how you want it then go watch NBA where the fouled player has to take the free throws, this is football. the best taker takes it be it goalkeeper, defender, midfielder or striker especially high stakes one

I wonder why you're bringing irrelevant examples into this without context

Let's not talk about Bale who was our star player on the pitch and should have had a goal after such a performance. We just lost a 50-goal player and we're expecting these attackers to pitch in with more goals. Penalties is their bread and butter, and you are going to give our penalties to a defender. Same defender whose errors were partly responsible for 2 goals.

Ramos being responsible for "1" goal (feel free to multiply it to make a point) at that point doesn't diminish his PK abilities. If Ronaldo were still here and missing sitters in that game then we have PK he would still be the one to take it!

Seriously, are you feeling okay?

You tell me if you are

Then you talk about him scoring the penalty. I've seen Benzema score better penalties.

-Lord

and I've seen Ronaldo score worse penalties and even miss many, your point is?

LordAdamX:

Great and Ronaldo is a defender too right?
-Lord

Strikers missing sitters is not a blunder, right?

usbcable:


The only fault I have for Lope is bringing on Ceballos for Casemiro. Thus leaving the defence open to ATM attacks.
Llorente is still Spanish so blaming him for bringing on Spanish players is just to mock him for his undying love for Spanish gems

I have forgotten who said he brought 7 Spanish players to Porto in his term there. Pls can anyone confirm this too. That is the reason for him being accused of sentimentally selective of Spanish players I guess.

I'm the one who made the statement and provided a link to back it up. I doubt he'd ever be able to shake off that conception about him.

Although even if he brings in Thiago and Aspas, I wouldn't cry foul; because the team needs them more than I care about their nationality.

The problem now is that it appears Perez is giving him the Benitez treatment. He's publicly said he wants a replacement for Kovacic, body no shake Flo. I don't even think he needs to publicly state he needs a striker as well, even a prehistoric primate knows we need one. What Flo is waiting for I don't know. And he can't complain. I just dey pity the guy. He left the Spanish NT for this, he deserves better.

-Lord

Ramos has always been our second choice PK taker and most times he scores with it. I was surprised some of you guys were shocked he was taking it. This shouldn't be an issue.

hopefulLandlord:


Nope, I simply provided an European team which defenders take PK but feel free to move the goalposts Seems you'd be okay with Casimiro taking PKs then So? why can't ours be one of the outliers or is it no longer legal?

If each of those defenders show they're better than those strikers then they should take it! especially high stake penalties!!

You're desperately trying hard to make a sensible argument sound absurd

Benzema was given penalty because his confidence in front if goal was low and we had a healthy lead. if it were against atletico at 1-1 Ronaldo would never have given him the PK!!

That you drew penalty doesn't mean you should take it, If that's how you want it then go watch NBA where the fouled player has to take the free throws, this is football. the best taker takes it be it goalkeeper, defender, midfielder or striker especially high stakes one

I wonder why you're bringing irrelevant examples into this without context
Ramos being responsible for "1" goal (feel free to multiply it to make a point) at that point doesn't diminish his PK abilities. If Ronaldo were still here and missing sitters in that game then we have PK he would still be the one to take it!

You tell me if you are

and I've seen Ronaldo score worse penalties and even miss many, your point is?

One European team. It seems you're unwell!

I guess Everton is now representative of the European standard? Can you actually look up the meaning of standard and outlier in a dictionary?

Ramos made a mistake in the first and third goals. It's not my fault if you're watching the HDMI wire. Ramos is a defender, it is not universally part of a defender's repertoire to take penalties. And in a match where the strikers are just as good at taking penalties and actually need the penalties to up their goal tally; there is absolutely no reason under the sun for a defender to take the penalty. Especially when said defender made two costly errors in the same match.

You say Benzema was given the PK because his confidence in front of goal was low. Then in the same breath you don't care about his confidence level because you want a defender to be the primary PK taker. Be f*cking consistent!

You're making it seem like Ramos is the best PK taker on the team. He isn't. And even if he were, PK's are 50:50 chances, and it's universally accepted that goal scorers/talismen take them. And it is doubly important we adhere to that tradition when the goal scorer and talisman on the team have immense pressure on them to step up and add more goals. Approximately 10-15% of CR7's goals last season were penalties.

I have a huge problem with depleting Bale or Benzema's goal tally by more than 15% (as they aren't 50 goals per season scorers) because we want to satisfy a defender... If he wants to score, he should be at the end of corner kicks. Leave the penalties for those with the task of scoring goals.

-Lord

Eyedea:
Ramos has always been our second choice PK taker and most times he scores with it. I was surprised some of you guys were shocked he was taking it. This shouldn't be an issue.

These guys are just looking for something to complain about

hopefulLandlord:


Strikers missing sitters is not a blunder, right?

Except that strikers traditionally are the primary penalty takers and defenders aren't.

-Lord

Eyedea:
Ramos has always been our second choice PK taker and most times he scores with it. I was surprised some of you guys were shocked he was taking it. This shouldn't be an issue.

Circumstances have changed.

Make Bale the primary PK taker and make Ramos second and no one would care.

This is not the captaincy where it always has to follow a seniority hierarchy.

Or are we going to buy Neymar today and insist Ramos will still be the choice PK taker? If no, then why is it now a taboo for Bale or Benzema to be the choice PK taker? Bale has always been the heir apparent to CR7's crown, then he gets the crown and now we're nitpicking the benefits of the crown.

If Ramos can play second-fiddle to CR7 in the PK hierarchy, he can play second-fiddle to Bale in the PK hierarchy. Suggesting otherwise is deeply unfair to Bale or Benzema.

-Lord

LordAdamX:


Circumstances have changed.

Make Bale the primary PK taker and make Ramos second and no one would care.

This is not the captaincy where it always has to follow a seniority hierarchy.

Or are we going to buy Neymar today and insist Ramos will still be the choice PK taker? If no, then why is it now a taboo for Bale or Benzema to be the choice PK taker?

-Lord

Let us drop the Ramos issue before we are termed Ramos haters oooo.

Their was a reason why strikers or the super star are always made the primary PK taker in top teams.

Abeg,

What more do you know about Marcelo's back up other than his name?

usbcable:


Let us drop the Ramos issue before we are termed Ramos haters oooo.

Their was a reason why strikers or the super star are always made the primary PK taker in top teams.

Abeg,

What more do you know about Marcelo's back up other than his name?

Do we have an actual backup for Marcelo? I was of the opinion Nacho will fill in if he gets injured.

-Lord

LordAdamX:


One European team. It seems you're unwell!

I gave example of Sao Paulo in which a goalkeeper was their taker, you brushed it away because its not in Europe. I gave you Everton example you are now moving the goalposts

I guess Everton is now representative of the European standard? Can you actually look up the meaning of standard and outlier in a dictionary?

Standard for selecting PK takers is how good they are at PKs. that most usually fall to strikers doesn't make it the rule, it simply means strikers are usually the best PK takers in their various teams but if a defender is the best at it then he should take it in high stakes game

Ramos made a mistake in the first and third goals. It's not my fault if you're watching the HDMI wire.

The third goal had not happened when he took the PK, learn to read, you might like it

Ramos is a defender, it is not universally part of a defender's repertoire to take penalties. And in a match where the strikers are just as good at taking penalties and actually need the penalties to up their goal tally.
; there is absolutely no reason under the sun for a defender to take the penalty. Especially when said defender made two costly errors in the same match.

No! You're bringing irrelevant points here. Its in any player's repertoire to be able to take penalties. of he's not a good as the attackers and midfielders then he shouldn't. All 11 players on the field should be able to take penalty kicks and whoever is regarded as the vest among them should take it when on the field

You say Benzema was given the PK because his confidence in front of goal was low. Then in the same breath you don't care about his confidence level because you want a defender to be the primary PK taker. Be f*cking consistent!

You're trying too hard to pin me but you're failing

I said he was given the PK because

1. His confidence was low

2. We had a healthy lead in that game

If Ronaldo were in that supercup match and Benz is low on confidence then Ronaldo would've taken it

Please stop strawmanning me, its highly dishonest

You're making it seem like Ramos is the best PK taker on the team. He isn't.

The coach most likely thinks he's the best. forgive me for trusting a coach that's watched them train PKs day in day out over a Nigerian who's probably never been to Valdebebas or Cuidad let alone witness a real Madrid live training

And even if he were, PK's are 50:50 chances, and it's universally accepted that goal scorers/talismen take them. And it is doubly important we adhere to that tradition when the goal scorer and talisman on the team have immense pressure on them to step up and add more goals.

The tradition is that the best PK taker takes it!
I agree its 50-50 by default but the odds increase with how good the player is at it so its better to go with the best taker to give you better odds. Just like a match is 50-50 but having a better team than the opponent makes the odds increase in one side

Approximately 20% of CR7's goals last season were penalties. 20%.

and so?

I have a huge problem depleting Bale or Benzema's goal tally by more than 20% (as they aren't 50 goals per season scorers) because we want to satisfy a defender... If he wants to score, he should be at the end of corner kicks. Leave the penalties for those with the task of scoring goals.

if Benz and Bale are interested in scoring then let them score open play goals or show the coach they're better than Ramos at taking PKs

Here you go again, making conclusion that Ramos is being favoured. Like I said, there's no winning for this coach even some Nigerian madridistas apparently know better than him

LordAdamX:


Except that strikers traditionally are the primary penalty takers and defenders aren't.

-Lord

traditionally, the best takers are chosen for the duty. the position they play secondary. that its usually strikers doesn't make it a rule. it simply shows strikers are usually the best PK takers

LordAdamX:


Circumstances have changed.

Make Bale the primary PK taker and make Ramos second and no one would care.

This is not the captaincy where it always has to follow a seniority hierarchy.

Or are we going to buy Neymar today and insist Ramos will still be the choice PK taker? If no, then why is it now a taboo for Bale or Benzema to be the choice PK taker? Bale has always been the heir apparent to CR7's crown, then he gets the crown and now we're nitpicking the benefits of the crown.

If Ramos can play second-fiddle to CR7 in the PK hierarchy, he can play second-fiddle to Bale in the PK hierarchy. Suggesting otherwise is deeply unfair to Bale or Benzema.

-Lord

I get your point but it still shouldn't be this big issue we're arguing about.

LordAdamX:

Or are we going to buy Neymar today and insist Ramos will still be the choice PK taker? If no, then why is it now a taboo for Bale or Benzema to be the choice PK taker? Bale has always been the heir apparent to CR7's crown, then he gets the crown and now we're nitpicking the benefits of the crown.

If we Buy Neymar today and Ramos still shows the coach I'm training that he's better than him at it then Ramos should take it!

If Ramos can play second-fiddle to CR7 in the PK hierarchy, he can play second-fiddle to Bale in the PK hierarchy. Suggesting otherwise is deeply unfair to Bale or Benzema.

-Lord

There's a reason Ramos was second fiddle to Ronaldo at PKs not Bale or Benzema

Maybe when you understand why, you'd then understand why he's number one now that Ronaldo has left

Honestly this is not even worth arguing over and you guys are just looking for any reason to complain even reasons with clear explanations like this PK thing

Eyedea:

I get your point but it still shouldn't be this big issue we're arguing about.

PK takers last 3 seasons were in order of hierarchy

1. Ronaldo

2. Ramos

3. Bale

4. Benzema

Ronaldo leaves and 2 becomes 1 yet these people are complaining.

Isn't it obvious they're complaining for complaining sake?

hopefulLandlord:

I gave example of Sao Paulo in which a goalkeeper was their taker, you brushed it away because its not in Europe. I gave you Everton example you are now moving the goalposts


Standard for selecting PK takers is how good they are at PKs. that most usually fall to strikers doesn't make it the rule, it simply means strikers are usually the best PK takers in their various teams but if a defender is the best at it then he should take it in high stakes game
The third goal had not happened when he took the PK, learn to read, you might like it
No! You're bringing irrelevant points here. Its in any player's repertoire to be able to take penalties. of he's not a good as the attackers and midfielders then he shouldn't. All 11 players on the field should be able to take penalty kicks and whoever is regarded as the vest among them should take it when on the field

You're trying too hard to pin me but you're failing

I said he was given the PK because

1. His confidence was low

2. We had a healthy lead in that game

If Ronaldo were in that supercup match and Benz is low on confidence then Ronaldo would've taken it

Please stop strawmanning me, its highly dishonest

The coach most likely thinks he's the best. forgive me for trusting a coach that's watched them train PKs day in day out over a Nigerian who's probably never been to Valdebebas or Cuidad let alone witness a real Madrid live training

The tradition is that the best PK taker takes it!
I agree its 50-50 by default but the odds increase with how good the player is at it so its better to go with the best taker to give you better odds. Just like a match is 50-50 but having a better team than the opponent makes the odds increase in one side

and so?
if Benz and Bale are interested in scoring then let them score open play goals or show the coach they're better than Ramos at taking PKs

Here you go again, making conclusion that Ramos is being favoured. Like I said, there's no winning for this coach even some Nigerian madridistas apparently know better than him

Why are you so daft? Is this really so hard to understand? Everton is an OUTLIER.

Look up the meaning of outlier. Everton doing it does not mean it is the standard. The standard is that strikers and star players take the penalties. You have yet to provide any proof that Benzema and Bale are so statistically bad at taking penalties that Ramos has to take it.

If you have any such evidence provide it.

Bale takes the PKs at Wales. He took the PKs at Tottenham. Whenever Benzema is called to take the PK, he often dispatches them brilliantly. So if by your account all 11 players should be able to, and the top 2 goal scorers are able to take PK's brilliantly; then why on God's green earth do you insist Ramos should take it.

-Lord

hopefulLandlord:

If we Buy Neymar today and Ramos still shows the coach I'm training that he's better than him at it then Ramos should take it!

There's a reason Ramos was second fiddle to Ronaldo at PKs not Bale or Benzema

Maybe when you understand why, you'd then understand why he's number one now that Ronaldo has left

Honestly this is not even worth arguing over and you guys are just looking for any reason to complain even reasons with clear explanations like this PK thing

That makes for a good laugh. Ramos will relegate Neymar as the primary PK taker.

-Lord

LordAdamX:


Why are you so daft?

Feel free to call me anything you want

Is this really so hard to understand? Everton is an OUTLIER.

Outlier means it's different from what is perceived as the norm.

Everton played last season with Rooney as their designated PK taker BECAUSE he was better than Baines (who was their PK taker before they signed Rooney) at it. Now that's Rooney's left Baines takes over
the duties again

What makes them outlier is that their defender is their best PK taker. if Ramos happens to be the best taker in Madrid then Madrid joins the outlier. being an outlier isn't illegal, is it?

The best taker is what matters, not the position the taker plays!!!

Look up the meaning of outlier. Everton doing it does not mean it is the standard. The standard is that strikers and star players take the penalties. You have yet to provide any proof that Benzema and Bale are so statistically bad at taking penalties that Ramos has to take it.
If you have any such evidence provide it.

The standard is for the best taker to take it. their position is secondary and irrelevant. that its usually strikers simply means strikers are usually the best PK takers in teams NOT that strikers have to be the one taking it even if they're not as good as a defender in the same team

You're yet to show why Ramos isn't better than it than those two. the onus is not on me to show why those are worse. only to show why Ramos is better than them and the past 3 season of Ramos being the backup PK taker to Ronaldo lends credibility to me while yours is based on speculation and the assumption that you know better than Lope and the erroneous conjecture that strikers should be taking the duties.

Bale takes the PKs at Wales. He took the PKs at Tottenham. Whenever Benzema is called to take the PK, he often dispatches them brilliantly. So if by your account all 11 players should be able to, and the top 2 goal scorers are able to take PK's brilliantly; then why on God's green earth do you insist Ramos should take it.

Bale took PKs in Wales BECAUSE he was the best PK taker in wales

Bale took PKs in Tottenham BECAUSE he was the best PK taker in Tottenham

Benzema took PKs when he's the best PK taker on the pitch OR he's given in a game that we have an unassailable lead to boost his confidence

Ramos takes PK for La Roja BECAUSE he's the best PK taker in La Roja, they had strikers and midfielders in La Roja but he still takes them

Ramos was deputy PK taker last season BECAUSE he was the second best PK taker in the team

Ramos is the main PK taker this season BECAUSE he's the best PK taker in the team


Its very simple

LordAdamX:


That makes for a good laugh. Ramos will relegate Neymar as the primary PK taker.

-Lord

Feel free to laugh bro, its good for your health

The need to argue for the sake of it has made some people drag this penalty issue for too long.

Hopeffulandlord... I completely agree with you on this issue of pk takers in a team.

You have been logically consistent in your argument.

hopefulLandlord:
Feel free to call me anything you want

Outlier means it's different from what is perceived as the norm.

Everton played last season with Rooney as their designated PK taker BECAUSE he was better than Baines (who was their PK taker before they signed Rooney) at it. Now that's Rooney's left Baines takes over
the duties again

What makes them outlier is that their defender is their best PK taker. if Ramos happens to be the best taker in Madrid then Madrid joins the outlier. being an outlier isn't illegal, is it?

The best taker is what matters, not the position the taker plays!!!

The standard is for the best taker to take it. their position is secondary and irrelevant. that its usually strikers simply means strikers are usually the best PK takers in teams NOT that strikers have to be the one taking it even if they're not as good as a defender in the same team

You're yet to show why Ramos isn't better than it than those two. the onus is not on me to show why those are worse. only to show why Ramos is better than them and the past 3 season of Ramos being the backup PK taker to Ronaldo lends credibility to me while yours is based on speculation and the assumption that you know better than Lope and the erroneous conjecture that strikers should be taking the duties.

Bale took PKs in Wales BECAUSE he was the best PK taker in wales

Bale took PKs in Tottenham BECAUSE he was the best PK taker in Tottenham

Benzema took PKs when he's the best PK taker on the pitch OR he's given in a game that we have an unassailable lead to boost his confidence

Ramos takes PK for La Roja BECAUSE he's the best PK taker in La Roja, they had strikers and midfielders in La Roja but he still takes them

Ramos was deputy PK taker last season BECAUSE he was the second best PK taker in the team

Ramos is the main PK taker this season BECAUSE he's the best PK taker in the team


Its very simple

Can you bring any evidence to back up that statement that Ramos is the best PK taker in the team? That is the question I asked that you're not willing to answer.

Provide the evidence or sh*t your trap about this best PK taker nonsense.

There is no evidence whatsoever that Bale is so poor at PK's that he should statistically not be the main PK taker now that CR7 isn't the primary taker anymore. If you have any such evidence that proves otherwise, show it.

As recently as 2013, Angel Di Maria was our second PK taker, after Kaka left. Same Di Maria isn't in the top 3 in PSG. But you expect us to accept that Ramos who couldn't beat out Di Maria would beat out Neymar who walked into PSG and took the spot as a superstar.

-Lord

LordAdamX:


Can you bring any evidence to back up that statement that Ramos is the best PK taker in the team? That is the question I asked that you're not willing to answer.

Provide the evidence or sh*t your trap about this best PK taker nonsense.

The evidence is his being deputy PK taker when Ronaldo was here ahead of Bale and Benz

Feel free to pretend this is not evidence though

There is no evidence whatsoever that Bale is so poor at PK's that he should statistically not be the main PK taker now that CR7 isn't the primary taker anymore. If you have any such evidence that proves otherwise, show it.

He was not deputy when Ronaldo was here, Ramos was deputy and what made Ramos deputy to Ronaldo ahead of Benz and Bale made him main taker ahead of those 2 now that Ronaldo has left

This is very simple and I fail to see the need for this argument other than trying to complain unnecessarily

As recently as 2013, Angel Di Maria was our second PK taker, after Kaka left. Same Di Maria isn't in the top 3 in PSG. But you expect us to accept that Ramos who couldn't beat out Di Maria would beat out Neymar who walked into PSG and took the spot as a superstar.

I fail to see the relevance of bringing this.
Messi couldn't beat out Xavi for PKs and Free kicks but trained at those, became better at it than Xavi and took over those duties ahead of Xavi.

it might shock you to know Players improve different aspects of their game as their career progresses just like Ronaldo's positioning and ability to lose his marker late in his Madrid stint was leaps and bounds better than his positioning and ability to lose his marker during his Man united and earlier in his Madrid stint

hopefulLandlord:


The evidence is his being deputy PK taker when Ronaldo was here ahead of Bale and Benz

Feel free to pretend this is not evidence though

He was not deputy when Ronaldo was here, Ramos was deputy and what made Ramos deputy to Ronaldo ahead of Benz and Bale made him main taker ahead of those 2 now that Ronaldo has left

This is very simple and I fail to see the need for this argument other than trying to complain unnecessarily
I fail to see the relevance of bringing this.
Messi couldn't beat out Xavi for PKs and Free kicks but trained at those, became better at it than Xavi and took over those duties ahead of Xavi.

it might shock you to know Players improve different aspects of their game as their career progresses just like Ronaldo's positioning and ability to lose his marker late in his Madrid stint was leaps and bounds better than his positioning and ability to lose his marker during his Man united and earlier in his Madrid stint

Oga that is not an evidence. Give a stat. Stop typing trash!

Neymar is the primary PK taker in PSG and it's not because he's better at PKs than Cavani. Messi is the primary PK taker in Argentina and he is not statistically the best PK taker on the team. Aguero is.

You've just been typing loads of BS since. So for 3 years+ Ramos has been better at PKs than Bale and Benzema. And Bale never improved.

Coming up with nonsensical rules you just pulled out of your a$$ to defend a position you can't even back with facts. Give a stat, you're giving me excuses.

-Lord

hopefulLandlord:


PK takers last 3 seasons were in order of hierarchy

1. Ronaldo

2. Ramos

3. Bale

4. Benzema

Ronaldo leaves and 2 becomes 1 yet these people are complaining.

Isn't it obvious they're complaining for complaining sake?

I'm not fully sold on our coach but I think that's the last thing I would worry about even if he has a Spanish agenda

LordAdamX:


Oga that is not an evidence. Give a stat. Stop typing trash!

Poo Poo fallacy
Don't just rubbish it, address it!

Neymar is the primary PK taker in PSG and it's not because he's better at PKs than Cavani.

If he's taking it then he's the better PK taker, its that simple and I'd trust the coaches that select those players having watched them practice than a Nigerian sitting in the comfort of his own home

Messi is the primary PK taker in Argentina and he is not statistically the best PK taker on the team. Aguero is.

even if this is true, who's talking statistics? You're just dragging this discussion anywhere you will feel comfortable and failing at it

You've just been typing loads of BS since. So for 3 years+ Ramos has been better at PKs than Bale and Benzema. And Bale never improved.

If Benz and Bale improved but Ramos is still better than them at it then Ramos would still be taking it. Was Ramos staying still even if they improved?

Honestly I feel you're just dishonestly trying hard not to understand

Coming up with nonsensical rules you just pulled out of your a$$ to defend a position you can't even back with facts. Give a stat, you're giving me excuses.

Stats border on irrelevancy in this discussion

Ramos was deputy ahead of Bale and Benz, that showed he was better than them at PKs or the coach who watched them train everyday thinks so. now he's number one that the main taker last season has left. if that's not evidence that he's better than them at it then nothing can possibly be evidence enough for you and that shows your dogmatism and inability to see credible evidence when it doesn't fit your narrative of Ramos being catered to or Spanish players being favoured

Oga, I'm tired of this argument. You're right, Bale and Benz should be taking PKs ahead of Ramos just because they're strikers

Let's discuss something else

Eyedea:

I'm not fully sold on our coach but I think that's the last thing I would worry about even if he has a Spanish agenda

exactly! I have my reservations with this coach too but If one must complain at least let the complain be sensible. this complain about PKs can only come from a hater to be frank cuz the explanation is very obvious and easy to understand for anyone that's watched football for years

Honestly these madridistas can't wait for this coach to fail, they're not even giving him any chance at all

hopefulLandlord:
Poo Poo fallacy
Don't just rubbish it, address it!
If he's taking it then he's the better PK taker, its that simple and I'd trust the coaches that select those players having watched them practice than a Nigerian sitting in the comfort of his own homeeven if this is true, who's talking statistics? You're just dragging this discussion anywhere you will feel comfortable and failing at it

If Benz and Bale improved but Ramos is still better than them at it then Ramos would still be taking it. Was Ramos staying still even if they improved?

Honestly I feel you're just dishonestly trying hard not to understand

Stats border on irrelevancy in this discussion

Ramos was deputy ahead of Bale and Benz, that showed he was better than them at PKs or the coach who watched them train everyday thinks so. now he's number one that the main taker last season has left. if that's not evidence that he's better than them at it then nothing can possibly be evidence enough for you and that shows your dogmatism and inability to see credible evidence when it doesn't fit your narrative of Ramos being catered to or Spanish players being favoured

Oga, I'm tired of this argument. You're right, Bale and Benz should be taking PKs ahead of Ramos just because they're strikers

Let's discuss something else

What are you tired of.

The time it'd take you to type a diatribe, you'd have found a statistical proof that Ramos is better at penalties than Bale and Benzema. You have no such evidence and you are simply assuming that Ramos deputized for Ronaldo simply because he was better at it than Bale and Benzema.

Then I provide proof that Aguero is statistically better at penalties than Messi, yet Messi is the primary PK taker at Argentina. https://www.sbnation.com/soccer/2018/6/16/17470622/lionel-messi-penalty-stats-argentina-vs-iceland

Also Neymar was made the primary PK taker at PSG without the reason being that he was the best PK taker on the team.

You just pulled that rule out of your a$$, and you can't back it up with facts and stats.

Then you make another uncorroborated claim that Ramos has been the better PK taker than Bale and Benzema without the others improving for the last 3 years. Where's your proof for that, nothing?

You have this undeniable urge to drop unsubstantiated statements that you have no stats or evidence for, and you expect others to swallow it without questioning it.

Why is it that Messi and Neymar can be made the primary PK takers in their teams respectively when they're not statistically the best PK takers, but Bale can't here, even though he is our talisman, when there is no statistical proof that Ramos is better at penalties than Bale?

Answer!

Then you go on to say Neymar wouldn't be given the primary PK role if he comes when that is exactly what he got at PSG despite Cavani being just as good. You think Flo will wait for 3+ years and pay 200m+ for Neymar and would not give him the primary PK role because of one defender. And you think you're normal!

You've been arguing BS since the start. Always talking nonsense when it comes to giving players their due.

-Lord

hopefulLandlord die matter. We will have a successful campaign again. I am optimistic.

LordAdamX:


What are you tired of.

The time it'd take you to type a diatribe, you'd have found a statistical proof that Ramos is better at penalties than Bale and Benzema. You have no such evidence and you are simply assuming that Ramos deputized for Ronaldo simply because he was better at it than Bale and Benzema.

Then I provide proof that Aguero is statistically better at penalties than Messi, yet Messi is the primary PK taker at Argentina. https://www.sbnation.com/soccer/2018/6/16/17470622/lionel-messi-penalty-stats-argentina-vs-iceland

Also Neymar was made the primary PK taker at PSG without the reason being that he was the best PK taker on the team.

You just pulled that rule out of your a$$, and you can't back it up with facts and stats.

Then you make another uncorroborated claim that Ramos has been the better PK taker than Bale and Benzema without the others improving for the last 3 years. Where's your proof for that, nothing?

You have this undeniable urge to drop unsubstantiated statements that you have no stats or evidence for, and you expect others to swallow it without questioning it.

Why is it that Messi and Neymar can be made the primary PK takers in their teams respectively when they're not statistically the best PK takers, but Bale can't here, even though he is our talisman, when there is no statistical proof that Ramos is better at penalties than Bale?

Answer!

Then you go on to say Neymar wouldn't be given the primary PK role if he comes when that is exactly what he got at PSG despite Cavani being just as good. You think Flo will wait for 3+ years and pay 200m+ for Neymar and would not give him the primary PK role because of one defender. And you think you're normal!

You've been arguing BS since the start. Always talking nonsense when it comes to giving players their due.

-Lord

This is my last reply on this because I've seen you're just pretending now to stick to your guns

At no point in any of this discussion did I bring stat into this, stat is something YOU brought up and are now trying to put it in my mouth

IF Ramos was regarded to be deputy for Rolando at PKs ahead of Bale and Benz then that's evidence he's better at it than them or the coaches who watched them train PKs week in week out came to that conclusion. You're free to pretend that doesn't mean anything in order of bring some googled stat without context but that's your prerogative

IF Neymar is taking PKs ahead of Cavani then he's better at it than him! The coach who watched them train week in week out made that conclusion and I would trust his decision more than someone who has never watched them practice PKs but uses Google to check stats and pull conclusion from there.


"Then you make another uncorroborated claim that Ramos has been the better PK taker than Bale and Benzema without the others improving for the last 3 years. Where's your proof for that, nothing?"

Honestly you just put words in people's mouth when you have no point and are shooting blanks

for the records, I never made the above claim he's saying I made

YOU asked why Di Maria was deputy here but fell below the pecking order at PSG while Ramos that he was ahead of when he was still here is now taking PKs. I replied that it could be that Ramos improved his PK taking abilities to the point of being regarded as better and that people improve different aspects of their game so a player can train and dislodge others who were ahead of them in certain duties. I even mentioned Messi improving FKs and PKs then dislodging Xavi from the number one spots

Your dishonest self is now strawmanning me by saying I'm making a claim?



Have a good one

monerozi5590:
hopefulLandlord die matter. We will have a successful campaign again. I am optimistic.

I'm done now, that's my last reply on this issue and I'm not the type that brags but anyone who reads both of our argument and leave biases aside wouldn't agree with him

I'm very optimistic too or at least a lot more optimistic than "The sky is falling" preachers

hopefulLandlord:
exactly! I have my reservations with this coach too but If one must complain at least let the complain be sensible. this complain about PKs can only come from a hater to be frank cuz the explanation is very obvious and easy to understand for anyone that's watched football for years

Honestly these madridistas can't wait for this coach to fail, they're not even giving him any chance at all

Which Madridistas? That's how you go about making funny accusations, then when you're called out, it'd be as though it's a gang-up.

Because I've said it multiple times here that whatever results we get this season I'd give Lope a pass, because he's being set up by the board.

Every criticism for anyone at the club must be from a hater. But when we applaud certain things done right, there's radio silence.

-Lord

hopefulLandlord:


This is my last reply on this because I've seen you're just pretending now to stick to your guns

At no point in any of this discussion did I bring stat into this, stat is something YOU brought up and are now trying to put it in my mouth

IF Ramos was regarded to be deputy for Rolando at PKs ahead of Bale and Benz then that's evidence he's better at it than them or the coaches who watched them train PKs week in week out came to that conclusion. You're free to pretend that doesn't mean anything in order of bring some googled stat without context but that's your prerogative

IF Neymar is taking PKs ahead of Cavani then he's better at it than him! The coach who watched them train week in week out made that conclusion and I would trust his decision more than someone who has never watched them practice PKs but uses Google to check stats and pull conclusion from there.


"Then you make another uncorroborated claim that Ramos has been the better PK taker than Bale and Benzema without the others improving for the last 3 years. Where's your proof for that, nothing?"

Honestly you just put words in people's mouth when you have no point and are shooting blanks

for the records, I never made the above claim he's saying I made

YOU asked why Di Maria was deputy here but fell below the pecking order at PSG while Ramos that he was ahead of when he was still here is now taking PKs. I replied that it could be that Ramos improved his PK taking abilities to the point of being regarded as better and that people improve different aspects of their game so a player can train and dislodge others who were ahead of them in certain duties. I even mentioned Messi improving FKs and PKs then dislodging Xavi from the number one spots

Your dishonest self is now strawmanning me by saying I'm making a claim?



Have a good one

You are just making a very crude, unsubstantiated assumption. Your rule does not hold up to scrutiny.

Ramos deputizing for Ronaldo is not proof or evidence that he is better than Bale and Benzema at taking penalties. That's simply your theory. It could very well be something else. Same way Aguero deputizing Messi in Argentina is not proof or evidence that Messi is better than Aguero at taking penalties.

Stop making stuff up. This is very simple.

You don't want to talk about statistics but you have been the one trumpeting that the rule is based on being the best PK taker on the team. If that's the case, why is there no statistics that Ramos is the best PK taker on the team. Do you think this is a beer parlor.

Talismen and scorers take penalties. That's the tradition. Your rule doesn't exist. I've debunked it with statistical evidence that an orangutan can understand. The exceptions to this tradition are outliers.

If Messi can be be the primary PK taker when Aguero a better PK taker is on the team, and likewise with Neymar at PSG; then there is no conceivable reason why Bale should not be the primary PK taker in Madrid over Ramos. And I can back that inference up with statistical evidence.

It is not a surprise that you'd ignore evidence. Making stuff up is your forte!

-Lord