Welcome, Guest: Register On Nairaland / LOGIN! / Trending / Recent / New
Stats: 3,153,414 members, 7,819,485 topics. Date: Monday, 06 May 2024 at 05:04 PM

In Honour Of Muslims That Lost Their Lives In Dana Air - Islam for Muslims (5) - Nairaland

Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Islam for Muslims / In Honour Of Muslims That Lost Their Lives In Dana Air (11815 Views)

Status And Honour Of Mother In Islam / Challenges Of Muslims In Nigeria; Solutions Needed Please / Questions On The “innocence Of Muslims”. (2) (3) (4)

(1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (Reply) (Go Down)

Re: In Honour Of Muslims That Lost Their Lives In Dana Air by BetaThings: 8:59am On Jun 13, 2012
Zhul-fiqar:


Sheikh Ibn Abdul-Wahab,the founder of wahhabism slaughtered the people of Ta'if (a city in present-day saudi arabia).his disciple,Ibn Saud slaughtered the people of Karbala (a holy city in Iraq).is there any difference between him and the ones presently carrying out these massacres?

you can look at these Sunni website exposing wahhabism(referred to as salafism outside saudi arabia),its founders and scholars :

http://www.correctislamicfaith.com/foundersofsalafism.htm

http://www.sunnah.org/aqida/cape_town_wahabi/wahabi_menace_capetown.htm
I am very sorry that you are quoting sites that are not creditable
Please bring evidence of the justification of these acts from the books of Shaykh Abdul-Wahab
Re: In Honour Of Muslims That Lost Their Lives In Dana Air by BetaThings: 12:17pm On Jun 13, 2012
Ganys:
As he stood up to honor the Dead Jew, He automatically had good intention towards the dead and that can be taken as prayer. Action shall be judge according to intention. Just My own view though.
We shoud have good intentions, no doubt
But that cannot be construed under to encompass religious duty
If the Prophet (PBUH) wanted to pray for the Jew, he would have
Afterall we are not allowed to desecrate the corpse of anyone, muslim or not. This is a mark of honour and respect
But we are not allowed to pray for them

In my mind, this matter is simple. We pray that they be guided by Allah to Islam when they are alive
After their death, they cannot be muslims again. We can show respect and whatever, but no dua
We also know that one of the reasons we bury our dead quickly is because if they are good we will be taking them to goodness,
and if they are bad we will be relieving ourselves of their evil
So not praying for a non-muslim is not really out of hatred otherwise we might be tempted to keep the bad ones among us unburied to delay their punishment
Re: In Honour Of Muslims That Lost Their Lives In Dana Air by Zhulfiqar1: 8:02pm On Jun 13, 2012
BetaThings:
I am very sorry that you are quoting sites that are not creditable
Please bring evidence of the justification of these acts from the books of Shaykh Abdul-Wahab

A Tip of the Ice-Berg:

“Regarding the one that says: ‘I do not declare enmity towards the disbelievers (Musrikeen)' or who declares enmity towards them but did not perform Takfir on them, or the one who says: 'I do not have conflict with people of La Ilaha lallah even if they committed Kufr, Shirk and opposed the religion of Allah' or who says: 'I do not object to the shrines’ this is not a Muslim”! (Majmuatu’l-Tawhid, Risalat Bayyan al-Najat Wal Fikak)

Redefining the meaning of La ilaha illallah and declaring the blood and wealth to be halaal of those who do not accept the new definition (Kitaab ut-Tawhid, ch. 5, pp. 19-21 Eng.; 12-14 of the Arabic).

Ibn `Abdul Wahhaab's statement in Kitaab ut-Tawhid (Arabic version printed by Daar ul-Iftaa, pp. 48-49; the English version translated by Ismaa'il al-Faruqi, Ch. 33, pp. 72-76):

'the kuffar who know their kufr are better in guidance than the believers,'


It is reported that Ibn 'Umar narrated: The Prophet said, "O Allah! Bless our Sham and our Yemen." People said, "Our Najd as well." The Prophet again said, "O Allah! Bless our Sham and Yemen." They said again, "Our Najd as well." On that the Prophet said, "There will appear earthquakes and afflictions, and from there will come out the side of the head of Satan." (Sahihul Bukhari Vol. 2, B. 17, No. 147)

[b]Note:[/b]Ibn Abdul Wahab,the founder of Wahhabism is from Najd.
Re: In Honour Of Muslims That Lost Their Lives In Dana Air by Zhulfiqar1: 8:35pm On Jun 13, 2012
BetaThings:
Facing Ka'aba is what we are commanded to do
but there are graves in and around the Ka'bah.also,the Ka'ba is a physical structure.also,Allah (jj) as evident in the holy Quran approves of tawassul (intercession) of those His servants he has chosen,purified and approve of.


Going to the graves to ask the dead for assitance is forbidden
so you wahhabis believe,it is the dead that assist people and not Allah? i do not know of any Shia who visit the graves of the beloved servants of Allah (jj) that believe it is the dead and not Allah (jj) that will assist them.


Do you or do you not mention the name of Ali ibn Talib (RA) for assistance when you are faced with a challenge
saying Ya Ali or Ya Muhammad is not with the intention that help comes from them independently of Allah (jj).mentioning their names is to invoke Allah (jj).


We know that the dead cannot help anyone
Asking them for help is shirk
Were it acceptable to seek help from the dead, who would you ask - Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) or Ali ibn Talib (RA)?
Please answer those two questions

to us Shia Muslims,there is no difference between Imam Ali (a) and the Prophet (s0 even though the Prophet (s) is superior to Imam Ali (a).

saying Ya Muhammad or Ya Ali as a way of tawassul (intercession) to seek Allah's favor is not shirk because we do not believe the servants of Allah (jj) are rivals to Allah (jj) or can do anything on their own without Allah (jj).

the companions did say "Ya Muhammad" as eviident in Sunni books and they never considered that to be shirk.it is only wahhabism that have turned everything into shirk and created a phobia for shirk.in reality they use the "shirk business" to impose their political will and go after those who oppose them.

you can see in the below videos a Sunni scholar refuting the wahhabi ideology that saying Ya Muhammad is shirk:

Part 1:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=W5bRzDRzBEY


Part 2:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eb3Mzz4QF1U
Re: In Honour Of Muslims That Lost Their Lives In Dana Air by Zhulfiqar1: 8:36pm On Jun 13, 2012
delete.duplicate post.
Re: In Honour Of Muslims That Lost Their Lives In Dana Air by maclatunji: 9:25pm On Jun 13, 2012
^Stating that you mention ANYBODY'S name to invoke God is no different from someone saying he mentions Obatala to invoke Eledumare. People invoke spirits not your creator dude. Maybe, you need additional lessons from Lagosshia.

You have missed the road.
Re: In Honour Of Muslims That Lost Their Lives In Dana Air by Zhulfiqar1: 8:11am On Jun 14, 2012
maclatunji: ^Stating that you mention ANYBODY'S name to invoke God is no different from someone saying he mentions Obatala to invoke Eledumare. People invoke spirits not your creator dude. Maybe, you need additional lessons from Lagosshia.

You have missed the road.

no there is a difference.Obatala and Eledumare are this:

"They are not but [mere] names you have named them - you and your forefathers - for which Allah has sent down no authority. They follow not except assumption and what [their] souls desire, and there has already come to them from their Lord guidance".(Holy Quran 53:23)


reaching out to Allah (jj) or doing tawassul (intercession or taken an intermediary) with His chosen and purified servants is this:

"None will have [power of] intercession except he who had taken from the Most Merciful a covenant".(Holy Quran 19:87)

"That Day, no intercession will benefit except [that of] one to whom the Most Merciful has given permission and has accepted his word".(Holy Quran 20:109)

"He knows what is [presently] before them and what will be after them, and they cannot intercede except on behalf[b] of one whom He approves[/b]. And they, from fear of Him, are apprehensive".(Holy Quran 21:28 )

""Whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His; who is he that can intercede with Him but by his permission" (2:255)

"Say, "To Allah belongs [the right to allow] intercession entirely. To Him belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth. Then to Him you will be returned."(Holy Quran 39:44)

"And how many angels there are in the heavens whose intercession will not avail at all except [only] after Allah has permitted [it] to whom He wills and approves".(Holy Quran 53:26)

When we do Tawassul reaching out to or invoking Allah (jj) Himself using His chosen and purfied servants for intercession with the True Creator,is not the same as this:

"And those they invoke besides Him do not possess [power of] intercession; but only those who testify to the truth [can benefit], and they know".(Holy Quran 43:86)

please feel free to read more about Tawassul in Islam and in the light of the Holy Quran:

http://www.answering-ansar.org/answers/tawassul/en/chap4.php
Re: In Honour Of Muslims That Lost Their Lives In Dana Air by maclatunji: 9:27am On Jun 14, 2012
^For all intent and purposes a dead individual cannot intercede for a living person, all prayers are directed to God as you don't need any dead righteous person to intercede for you on any matter. The verses you have quoted refer to the day of judgment when we will all have been brought back to life.

What you claim to be doing is the very beginning of idolatry. The very first idols were created by the descendants of pious people after Noah (AS). The flood destroyed all unbelievers and idolatry crept back when the descendants of the children of the flood's survivors took them as intercessors to God because of what they and now you call their 'holiness'. See, virtually anyone can quote and post material but you have to know the import of what you are quoting.

The Prophet (SAW) has left us with an overabundance of prayers for every human want. Calling his or any other name with the hope or intention that he or they will intercede for you is the opposite of the Unity of God that Islam is all about. A Muslim's access to God is direct and has no barriers. The most you can do outside that is to ask a living Muslim to pray for you- QED.
Re: In Honour Of Muslims That Lost Their Lives In Dana Air by Zhulfiqar1: 9:59am On Jun 14, 2012
maclatunji: ^For all intent and purposes a dead individual cannot intercede for a living person, all prayers are directed to God as you don't need any dead righteous person to intercede for you on any matter. The verses you have quoted refer to the day of judgment when we will all have been brought back to life.
that is really the difference between someone who understands the meaning of tawassul and someone who is just out to criticize and is influenced by wahhabi misunderstanding of tawassul.

first,you wanted to make tawassul appear like paganism.when i pointed out verses from the Quran permitting tawassul,you have changed course in your argument to cite the question of the person being used to do tawassul is dead.

firstly,let me put it plain to you that whether the person is dead or alive,since he is chosen and purified and approved of by God,whether dead or alive in this world,the person's importance and station in the sight of Allah (jj) is the same.Muhammad (s) 1400 years or today has the same importance to God and to the believers.even if Muhammad (s) is dead,Allah (jj) to whom we are directing our cries and using Muhammad (s),his beloved servant as mediator,is not dead.if the servant is dead,then Allah (jj) who hears is not dead.so why must tawassul always be seen by the confused with reference to the dead and not reference to Allah (jj0 who is living?


What you claim to be doing is the very beginning of idolatry. The very first idols were created by the descendants of pious people after Noah (AS). The flood destroyed all unbelievers and idolatry crept back when the descendants of the children of the flood's survivors took them as intercessors to God because of what they and now you call their 'holiness'. See, virtually anyone can quote and post material but you have to know the import of what you are quoting.
i have brought out verses from the holy Quran to differenite between idol worship and using idols as "intercessors", and when you do tawassul as explained in the Quran.you are again repeating yourself and the misunderstanding you have.why?

you can likewise quote any word and make any statement but you have to know the context of your statements and at whom you are directing them.


The Prophet (SAW) has left us with an overabundance of prayers for every human want. Calling his or any other name with the hope or intention that he or they will intercede for you is the opposite of the Unity of God that Islam is all about. A Muslim's access to God is direct and has no barriers. The most you can do outside that is to ask a living Muslim to pray for you- QED.

so then how come in the Quran Allah (jj) permits intercession? is Allah (jj) in your opinion permitting shirk? what are you saying?
Re: In Honour Of Muslims That Lost Their Lives In Dana Air by Zhulfiqar1: 10:12am On Jun 14, 2012
Are The Quranic Verses Permitting Intercession Only Refer to the Day of Judgement?

"Fear Allah and find a wasila (intermediary) to Him" (Holy Quran 5:35)

Examples of doing Tawassul by the companions in Sunni Hadiths:

1.) "O Allah! We used to ask our Prophet to invoke You for rain, and You would bless us with rain, and now we ask his uncle to invoke You for rain. O Allah ! Bless us with rain." And so it would rain.
Sahih al Bukhari Volume 2, Book 17, Number 123 Chapter “Istisqaa”, Narrated by Anas.

Tawassul to Allah (jj) through the Prophet (s) after his death by the companion,Usthman Ibn Hunaif

Tabarani, in his "al-Mu'jam al saghir," reports a hadith from 'Uthman ibn Hunayf that:


2.) a man repeatedly visited Uthman ibn Affan (Allah be pleased with him) concerning something he needed, but Uthman paid no attention to him or his need. The man met Ibn Hunayf and complained to him about the matter - this being after the death (wisal) of the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) and after the caliphates of Abu Bakr and Umar - so Uthman ibn Hunayf, who was one of the Companions who collected hadiths and was learned in the religion of Allah, said: "Go to the place of ablution and perform ablution (wudu), then come to the mosque, perform two rak'as of prayer therein, and say:

'O Allah, I ask You and turn to You through our Prophet Muhammad, the Prophet of mercy; O Muhammad (Ya Muhammad), I turn through you to my Lord, that He may fulfill my need,' and then mention your need. Then come so that I can go with you [to the caliph Uthman]." So the man left and did as he had been told, then went to the door of Uthman ibn Affan and the doorman came, took him by the hand, brought him to Uthman ibn Affan, and seated him next to him on a cushion. 'Uthman asked, "What do you need?" and the man mentioned what he wanted, and Uthman accomplished it for him, then he said, "I hadn't remembered your need until just now," adding, "Whenever you need something, just mention it." Then, the man departed, met Uthman ibn Hunayf, and said to him, "May Allah reward you! He didn't see to my need or pay any attention to me until you spoke with him." Uthman ibn Hunayf replied, "By Allah, I didn't speak to him, but I have seen a blind man come to the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him and give him peace) and complain to him of the loss of his eyesight. The Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said, "Can you not bear it?' and the man replied, 'O Messenger of Allah, I do not have anyone to lead me around, and it is a great hardship for me.' The Prophet (Allah bless him and grant him peace) told him, 'Go to the place of ablution and perform ablution (wudu), then pray two rak'as of prayer and make the supplications.'" Ibn Hunayf went on, "By Allah, we didn't part company or speak long before the man returned to us as if nothing had ever been wrong with him."

Tabarani, in his "al-Mu'jam al saghir”, This is an explicit, unequivocal text from a prophetic Companion proving the legal validity of tawassul through the dead. The account has been classified as rigously authenticated (SAHIH) by Baihaqi, Mundhiri, and Haythami.



3.) Abu Bakr al-Minqari said: I was with (al-hafiz) al-Tabarani and (al-hafiz) Abu al-Shaykh in the Prophet's Mosque, in some difficulty. We became very hungry. That day and the next we didn't eat. When it was time for `isha, I came to the Prophet's grave and I said: "O Messenger of Allah, we are hungry, we are hungry" (ya rasullallah al-ju` al-ju`)! Then I left. Abu al-Shaykh said to me: Sit. Either there will be food for us, or death. I slept and Abu al-Shaykh slept. al-Tabarani stayed awake, researching something. Then an `Alawi (a descendant of `Ali) came knocking at the door with two boys, each one carrying a palm-leaf basket filled with food. We sat up and ate. We thought that the children would take back the remainder but they left everything behind. When we finished, the `Alawi said: O people, did you complain to the Prophet? I saw him in my sleep and he ordered me to bring something to you.
Al-Hafiz Ibn Jawzi, Kitab al Wafa, Page 818, #1536



4.) Sunni Allamah (scholar) Nawawi's tawassal supplication before the tomb of Rasulullah (s)


The pilgrim should face the shrine of the Messenger of Allah (s)' make him a means (tawassul) towards reaching God and seek his wasilah as intercession (shafa'at)' in the same manner as the Bedouin who visited the Prophet's shrine and standing beside it said: ‘Peace unto you O Messenger of Allah' I have heard Allah has said:

...Had they' when they had wronged themselves' come to you and asked Allah's forgiveness and the Apostle had asked forgiveness for them' they would certainly have found Allah Most-Propitious' Most-Merciful. (Holy Qur'an 4: 64).

Therefore' I have come to you for forgiveness of my sins and seeking your intercession with Allah.

Al-Majmu'' vol. 8' p. 274; Fayd al-Qadir' vol. 2' p. 134; I'anah al-Talibiyyin' p. 315.



[b]5.)[/b]Imam of Ahl'ul Sunnah Abdul Hamid Ghazzali despite his Nasibi leanings (see our article on Imam Husayn) allotted a special section in his book Ihya' 'Ulum al-Din concerning the manners of pilgrimage to the shrine of the Prophet (s) in order to repent and seek forgiveness from Allah. He stated:

The Prophet should be made the means (wasilah) and the intercessor (shafi')' and with face turned towards the tomb' the pilgrim should implore Allah for the sake and position of the Prophet with the words: "O Allah' indeed You have said' Had they' who had wronged themselves' come to you and asked Allah's forgiveness and the Apostle had asked forgiveness for them' they would have certainly found Allah Most-Propitious' Most-Merciful (Holy Qur'an 4:64);

O Allah' surely we have heard Your words and we obey Your command' by coming to Your Prophet to seek his intercession with You for our sins; how burdensome and heavy (are sins) on our backs! We repent of slipperiness' we confess our wrongs and our faults' accept our repentance for his sake' make Your Prophet intercessor for us' and exalt us for the sake of his position and his rights with You."

Al-Ghazzali also added:

It is recommended the pilgrim should go daily to the Baqi' Cemetery and after saluting the Prophet (s)' make pilgrimage to the tombs of (Imam) Hasan ibn 'Ali' (Imam) 'Ali ibn al-Husayn' (Imam) Muhammad ibn 'Ali and (Imam) Ja'far ibn Muhammad (Allah be pleased with them)' and also perform the Salat in the Mosque of Fatimah (Allah be pleased with her).
Ihya' 'Ulum al-Din' vol. 1' pp. 258-261

http://www.answering-ansar.org/answers/tawassul/en/chap5.php
Re: In Honour Of Muslims That Lost Their Lives In Dana Air by Zhulfiqar1: 10:23am On Jun 14, 2012
please watch this Sunni Sheikh in the below (both clips are 22 minutes only) citing Sunni hadiths where companions used the Prophet (s) for intercession and also used the phrase "Ya Muhammad" for intercession contrary to wahhabi beliefs calling that "shirk":

Part 1:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=W5bRzDRzBEY

Part 2:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eb3Mzz4QF1U
Re: In Honour Of Muslims That Lost Their Lives In Dana Air by maclatunji: 1:42pm On Jun 14, 2012
^You can even publish an encyclopedia if you like, it will not make idolizing the Prophet (SAW) or any other person for that matter a part of Islam. What will be the motivation? God won't accept your prayers unless you go through proxies or what? You have a funny, nay dubious way of avoiding facts. Would you also use Jesus (AS) for intercession going by your logic? I see that your ability to reflect on facts is limited.
Re: In Honour Of Muslims That Lost Their Lives In Dana Air by Zhulfiqar1: 2:54pm On Jun 14, 2012
maclatunji: ^You can even publish an encyclopedia if you like, it will not make idolizing the Prophet (SAW) or any other person for that matter a part of Islam. What will be the motivation? God won't accept your prayers unless you go through proxies or what? You have a funny, nay dubious way of avoiding facts. Would you also use Jesus (AS) for intercession going by your logic? I see that your ability to reflect on facts is limited.

you obviously know more than your sunni scholars. grin

how does tawassul amount to "idolizing" the Prophet (s)? is that how you understand it?

Allah (jj) has provided tawassul just like repentance and forgiveness as a path to seek Him.we humans are sinful and there are sins that can really anger Allah (jj) and veil our prayers and supplications.tawassul seeks to use the favor of the chosen ones with Allah (jj) to beg for Allah (jj) to pardon us and show us favor and mercy.

and here is more from Sunni hadiths and scholars who taught you your beliefs: grin


Reported by Bukhari and narrated by Abu Nuaym who said Sufyan narrated from Abu Ishaq who narrated from Abdur-Rahman Ibn Sa'ad who said:

Abdullah Ibn Umar's leg buckled and become paralyzed.So a man (Ibn Abbass) said to him :mention the name of the person most beloved to you.Ibn Umar tehreby retorted:"Ya Muhammad".

"Ya Muhammad" (O Muhammad!)is a phrase of tawassul calling another person to gain favor or help.
The above report is by the following Sunni scholars of hadith:

1.) Bukhari reported in "Adab al-Mufrad" under the chapter "what a man should say if his leg buckled and become paralyzed"
2.) Al-Hafidh Ibn al-Sunni in his book amal al-yawm wal laylah ('deeds of day and night') in the chapter of "what to say if one's leg is paralyzed" in many chains;
3.)related by Ibn Saad in his Tabqat and also al-Hafidh Ibn Ja'ad in his Musnad,
4.) al-Hafidh Ibn Asakir in Tarikh Dimashq and al-Hafidh Ibn al-Mizziyy in Tahdhib al-Kamal
5.) al-Hafid Ibn Jazariyy in his two books,al-Hisbul Hasin,and Udatu al-Hisnil Hasin and al-Hafidh al-Nawawi in al-Adhkar
Re: In Honour Of Muslims That Lost Their Lives In Dana Air by maclatunji: 3:53pm On Jun 14, 2012
^LOL, is there anything like classification of hadith in your body of knowledge? You still don't get it. You are not to call on anybody in prayer except God. Can you quote Suratul Ikhlas, the translation that is and compare it to what you have posted so far? If you are sinful, repentance is all that you require to make your prayers answered faster. God is self-sufficient, you don't need to take detours through his creatures (no matter how blessed) to get to him. I ask again- going by your logic would you seek intercession through Jesus, Moses or Abraham (AS)?

Even reading it is repugnant- ewwwwwwwwww!
Re: In Honour Of Muslims That Lost Their Lives In Dana Air by Zhulfiqar1: 6:19pm On Jun 14, 2012
maclatunji: ^LOL, is there anything like classification of hadith in your body of knowledge? You still don't get it. You are not to call on anybody in prayer except God. Can you quote Suratul Ikhlas, the translation that is and compare it to what you have posted so far? If you are sinful, repentance is all that you require to make your prayers answered faster. God is self-sufficient, you don't need to take detours through his creatures (no matter how blessed) to get to him. I ask again- going by your logic would you seek intercession through Jesus, Moses or Abraham (AS)?

Even reading it is repugnant- ewwwwwwwwww!

you should really seek repentance.you need it.

intercession is allowed in the Holy Quran and that in no way contradict or conflict with Suratul Ikhlas and the Unity of Allah (jj).

this is really the point you as someone who poses as an intellectual should come to the conclusion that the wahhabi teaching in describing tawassul as shirk is refutable and a trick they use to brand everyone who opposes them.you should come to the conclusion that tawassul is Islamic and a Quranic provision.

we as Muslims do not and should not reject any verse of the Quran.we wholeheartedly accept and believe in Suratul Ikhlas,which on its own is the essence of the entire Quran.the entire Quran rests on Suratul Ikhlas.therefore you need to see that when one does tawassul he does not question the Unity of Allah,nor does he take anyone as deity beside or along with Him.whatever power belongs to Him alone.tawassul Islamically and as approved by Allah (jj) in the Quran does not elevate any human being to the position of a deity and there is no shirk in it.

as for asking whether we can do tawassul with other prophets,definitely.there is no objection to that.however,we as Muslims being of the ummah of Muhammad (s) and Muhammad (s) being the master of messengers and prophets,we find it more desirable to do tawassul with the chief of the prophets and his Ahlul-Bayt (a).had there being need for any prophet to do tawassul,it would be Muhammad (s) that that prophet would use as his wasilah (intercessor) to Allah (jj) to grant him his desires and for Allah (jj) favor that prophet.

we are also told in several hadiths (in both sunni and shia sources) that when Adam (as) was removed from the garden and he felt the need to get closer to Allah (jj) and do tawba (which literally could mean repentance or could mean to "turn towards Allah" or draw nearer),it was Muhammad (s) whose name he used as wasilah.remember that Allah (jj) had taught Adam (as) the names of everything according to the holy Quran.

as for the question on classification of hadiths,all the hadiths i have thus mentioned from Sunni sources are sound and acceptable by Sunni scholars.in the one i copied from the video i earlier presented by a Sunni Sheikh of Ibn Umar saying "Ya Muhammad",the Sunni Sheikh in the video paid special emphasis on the trustworthiness of the hadith.he proved that all the chains of narrators are thiqah (trustworthy) and also the hadith is reported in more than one source.he also goes to point out that the hadith was even narrated by a salaf scholar (a scholar held in high regards by salafists or wahhabis).

to conclude,i really would like us to continue our discussion in a cordial atmosphere free from any sort of tension or animosity.i wish you will also on your own research on the topics of contention from both Sunni and Shia sources.i am inviting you to the path of the Ahlul-Bayt (a),one of the two weighty things described by the Prophet (s) in hadith ath-Thaqalain that we should hold on to after his demise.
Re: In Honour Of Muslims That Lost Their Lives In Dana Air by maclatunji: 9:00pm On Jun 14, 2012
^No joke, you really make me laugh hard. Well, we cannot fault you in terms of effort.
Re: In Honour Of Muslims That Lost Their Lives In Dana Air by Zhulfiqar1: 12:16am On Jun 15, 2012
maclatunji: ^No joke, you really make me laugh hard. Well, we cannot fault you in terms of effort.

i am glad you are at last laughing.going by what i see in the forum,you and tbaba have what it takes to understand the details of Islam,its history and comprehend the truth from falsehood and follow the path of the Ahlul-Bayt (a) and accept to be "Shia of Ali" as commanded by Allah (jj) and declared by our master Muhammad (s).remember,the Prophet (s) told Ammar Ibn Yassir (ra),that when you see the world on one path and Imam Ali (a) on another,follow the one Imam Ali (a) is on.he also said Imam Ali (a) is with the truth and the truth with Imam Ali (as);it turns around him however he turns.he (s) also said Imam Ali (a) is without the Quran and the Quran is with Imam Ali (a). the Prophet (s) said:"I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate.whoever require knowledge should seek it through its gate".and finally,he (s) said:"Ali is to be as Harun was to Musa.only that there is no prophet after me".the Quran clearly tells us what Harun (as) was to Musa (as) besides prophethood.Harun (as) was the wasi (executioner of will) and khalifah (successor) of Musa (as).

may Allah (jj) guide to His complete nur (light)!
Re: In Honour Of Muslims That Lost Their Lives In Dana Air by yusuf01(m): 4:07am On Jun 15, 2012
Zhul-fiqar:


i am glad you are at last laughing.going by what i see in the forum,you and tbaba have what it takes to understand the details of Islam,its history and comprehend the truth from falsehood and follow the path of the Ahlul-Bayt (a) and accept to be "Shia of Ali" as commanded by Allah (jj) and declared by our master Muhammad (s).remember,the Prophet (s) told Ammar Ibn Yassir (ra),that when you see the world on one path and Imam Ali (a) on another,follow the one Imam Ali (a) is on.he also said Imam Ali (a) is with the truth and the truth with Imam Ali (as);it turns around him however he turns.he (s) also said Imam Ali (a) is without the Quran and the Quran is with Imam Ali (a). the Prophet (s) said:"I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate.whoever require knowledge should seek it through its gate".and finally,he (s) said:"Ali is to be as Harun was to Musa.only that there is no prophet after me".the Quran clearly tells us what Harun (as) was to Musa (as) besides prophethood.Harun (as) was the wasi (executioner of will) and khalifah (successor) of Musa (as).

may Allah (jj) guide to His complete nur (light)!

Salam Aleikum

I've been passively been reading both of u guys argument for a while and I believe now is the time to make my intention known; I'm writing this not because I want to argue (may Allah guide me from it) but because I understand the trend of argument and I believe you are following the same trend. My conclusion are detailed below

1) We - muslims - should know that we should not be dogmatic when it comes our beliefs, so as not to be misguided, we should always be in the process of learning and at the same time pray for Allah's guidance, because we can be easily misguided even why we think we are on the right path. Allah said in the Qu'ran of a people who their deeds will amount to null while they believe they are acquiring good with it; why? Because they are dogmatic about their beliefs, they refused the ayahs of Allah (SWT)

2) I personally as a person believe the denial of other sahabas and the reverence of Ali bin Talib is blindfolding the shias. Yes, the prophet said Ali bin Talib (ra) is his to him what Harun is to Musa, but was he (saw) not the same person that said that if there would be any prophet after him, it would be Umar bin Kattab (ra), was he (saw) not the one that said the money (in terms of charity) that he (saw) finds pleasing to him is that of Abu Bakr? Are Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman bin Affan (ra) not among the 10 people the prophet (saw) promised jannah? He said such things about them because he they earned his trust, who was with him while he left mecca? Abu Bakr. He could have asked Ali, but instead, he choose Abu Bakr. Lagosshia, at one point on this thread was calling these people hypocrites - may Allah forgive him - these are the people that spread islam to where it is today. Was it not during Uthman's yrs as the calliph that Islam spread to other parts of the world? The shias believe Ali bin Talib was wronged, and as such the three other calliphs are proxies to Ali. These hatred towards these caliphs - to my opinion - is leading shias blindly. Do you think Allah (azj) would made it possible for Abu Bakr and Umar to be buried beside the prophet if they were indeed hypocrites? I read of a shia scholar desecrating (by spitting on) the graves of these two after he paid respects to the prophet. Please as muslims, we should not follow blindy but ask Allah to lead us; He (Azah wa jall) is the only one that can offer us guidance
Re: In Honour Of Muslims That Lost Their Lives In Dana Air by yusuf01(m): 4:07am On Jun 15, 2012
Zhul-fiqar:


i am glad you are at last laughing.going by what i see in the forum,you and tbaba have what it takes to understand the details of Islam,its history and comprehend the truth from falsehood and follow the path of the Ahlul-Bayt (a) and accept to be "Shia of Ali" as commanded by Allah (jj) and declared by our master Muhammad (s).remember,the Prophet (s) told Ammar Ibn Yassir (ra),that when you see the world on one path and Imam Ali (a) on another,follow the one Imam Ali (a) is on.he also said Imam Ali (a) is with the truth and the truth with Imam Ali (as);it turns around him however he turns.he (s) also said Imam Ali (a) is without the Quran and the Quran is with Imam Ali (a). the Prophet (s) said:"I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate.whoever require knowledge should seek it through its gate".and finally,he (s) said:"Ali is to be as Harun was to Musa.only that there is no prophet after me".the Quran clearly tells us what Harun (as) was to Musa (as) besides prophethood.Harun (as) was the wasi (executioner of will) and khalifah (successor) of Musa (as).

may Allah (jj) guide to His complete nur (light)!

Salam Aleikum

I've been passively been reading both of u guys argument for a while and I believe now is the time to make my intention known; I'm writing this not because I want to argue (may Allah guide me from it) but because I understand the trend of argument and I believe you are following the same trend. My conclusion are detailed below

1) We - muslims - should know that we should not be dogmatic when it comes our beliefs, so as not to be misguided, we should always be in the process of learning and at the same time pray for Allah's guidance, because we can be easily misguided even why we think we are on the right path. Allah said in the Qu'ran of a people who their deeds will amount to null while they believe they are acquiring good with it; why? Because they are dogmatic about their beliefs, they refused the ayahs of Allah (SWT)

2) I personally as a person believe the denial of other sahabas and the reverence of Ali bin Talib is blindfolding the shias. Yes, the prophet said Ali bin Talib (ra) is his to him what Harun is to Musa, but was he (saw) not the same person that said that if there would be any prophet after him, it would be Umar bin Kattab (ra), was he (saw) not the one that said the money (in terms of charity) that he (saw) finds pleasing to him is that of Abu Bakr? Are Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman bin Affan (ra) not among the 10 people the prophet (saw) promised jannah? He said such things about them because he they earned his trust, who was with him while he left mecca? Abu Bakr. He could have asked Ali, but instead, he choose Abu Bakr. Lagosshia, at one point on this thread was calling these people hypocrites - may Allah forgive him - these are the people that spread islam to where it is today. Was it not during Uthman's yrs as the calliph that Islam spread to other parts of the world? The shias believe Ali bin Talib was wronged, and as such the three other calliphs are proxies to Ali. These hatred towards these caliphs - to my opinion - is leading shias blindly. Do you think Allah (azj) would made it possible for Abu Bakr and Umar to be buried beside the prophet if they were indeed hypocrites? I read of a shia scholar desecrating (by spitting on) the graves of these two after he paid respects to the prophet. Please as muslims, we should not follow blindy but ask Allah to lead us; He (Azah wa jall) is the only one that can offer us guidance
Re: In Honour Of Muslims That Lost Their Lives In Dana Air by yusuf01(m): 4:47am On Jun 15, 2012
Another thing I'll like to add is the fact of quoting quranic verses that talked about tawassul; the prophet made it known during his years that this will only happen on the day of qiyamah (except you give me an hadith of the prophet that said directly that you can call him to intercede on your behalf). In fact I haven't seen someone as humble as the prophet; he always said to his sahabas not to pay so much reverence to him because he's only a prophet, to convey message. On his death bed, he warned us against this very evil. So calling Ya muhammed each time you pray is not different from the christians calling Jesus. Ask them and they will tell you that Jesus (as) will intercede for them, that is why they are calling him. In fact, this issue of calling on the prophet (as) and Ali (ra) negates (in my opinion) the essence of what the prophet was trying to guide us against. On all his preachings, he made it known; I'm only a messenger. Why did Allah (swt) said in the popular verse; I'm am closer to you than your jugular vein? Was He (swt) not talking about prayers? So why will He (swt) support intercession when you can directly pray to him. Just like maclatunji pointed out; with your logic (of using the names of pious men to call on Allah) why not call on Ibrahim (as), he's the friend of Allah. Why not Musa (as), he spoke with Allah (swt) directly? Why is it rusulilah (swt) and ALI BIN TALIB (ra)? Of course you can pray to Allah saying; ya Allah, consider the blessings you granted rusulilah (saw) please grant me my heart desires. That is permitted; but saying; Yah Mohammed? That is taking it to another level, you are calling on the dead. The prophet said he left us with the quran and sunnah, he (saw) never directly (as far as I know, and you can provide the hadiths if you have any when he said directly that you can say; ya mohammed) said we should call on him. Of course pple went to him for prayers, he was the one closer to Allah and any prayer he said Allah answered. This was because they could see him and he could be easily be gained access to. Not because they see him as the only channel to Allah in terms of prayer.

I'm in the middle of the night typing this, I just want you to understand that we can't do islam without proper understanding its concepts. NEVER has the prophet asked us to follow Ali bin Talib (ra) dogmatically and leave other sahabas, and NEVER has he said intercession is permitted while on earth. He (saw) preached closeness to Allah, warned us against over celebrating our prophets because that is one of the reasons earlier generations were misled. Follow the quran and sunnah, Ali is a sahaba, likewise Abu Bakr, Umar bin Kattab, Uthman bin Affan, Usama bin Zaid, Abu Huraira, Anas bin Malik, Ibn Abass (ra) and a host of other sahabas, he (saw) trusted them with his judgement. In fact, when he was on the death bed, Abu Bakr led the prayers, if he wasn't competent, or rusululah felt Ali is better placed, he would have asked Ali to, but instead Abu Bakr did and he was happy (smiled at the congregation while looking at them). Don't single out one and rubbish the works of others (what I belief shia muslims are guilty of doing). We only have one life to live, we can't afford to make mistakes, let's pray to Allah to lead us, not following imams in a dogmatic manner. It is your duty to seek knowledge and yours also to separate the grains from the chaffs.

May Allah guides us all, Ma sallam

1 Like

Re: In Honour Of Muslims That Lost Their Lives In Dana Air by millinmax2(m): 9:25am On Jun 15, 2012
uniqueren: Whoever started this thread was clearly wishing for some bashing... Is it so wrong for a muslim to wish a dead person well? Haba this muslim palava is gettin sillier than ever... Nd to the person who asked if christains pray for idol worshippers, the ansa is yes we do esp if they had to die in a crash..... To all victims of Dana crash weda xtain, muslim, or idol worshipper '' enternal rest grant them o lord nd let ur pepertual light shine on them. May they rest in peace amen!!''


Fact Uniqueren..Let us all wish them well cause by now we don't know what they are facing,Including the muslim,christian and Idol worshipers...It said in the book of God that we should always wish the dead once well cause we are also going one day,Death is Inevictable for everybody on this earth...Ma Salam !
Re: In Honour Of Muslims That Lost Their Lives In Dana Air by Zhulfiqar1: 4:29pm On Jun 15, 2012
@brother Yusuf

it is so obvious that you are hanging your entire sunni faith by a thread.i can easily sense that you are shaking while typing.i just want to make two quick points before i reply to your post in details.first,you spoke about avoiding being "dogmatic".let us be honest,Islam is a dogmatic religion.for instance there is no way you can worship any god beside Allah (jj).if you do then you are not Muslim.there is no middle ground to the truth in Islam.it is either you are guided and you have the absolute truth or you are misguided whether in certain small issues or the fundamental ones that have to do with the basis of faith.

also,you raised so many points all in order to defend a few individuals.have you sincerely considered whether the Shia have explanations to all the points you raised?or whether those points you raised can be proven wrong? inshaAllah i will try my best to give explanations to the points you raised briefly.each point can be a topic on its own and i am very sure many if not all have being discussed in this forum by brother LagosShia.

i am very happy you are coming out after following the discussion to add your own observations and understanding or misunderstanding.inshaAllah,we all would be rewarded by Allah (jj) for our sincere intentions to defend and follow what we believe is the truth of Islam.and i pray that He guide you into the path of the Ahlul-Bayt (a),His purified and chosen servants.
Re: In Honour Of Muslims That Lost Their Lives In Dana Air by Zhulfiqar1: 5:23pm On Jun 15, 2012
yusuf01:

Salam Aleikum
Wa alaikum assalam wa rahmatullah wa barakatuh!


I've been passively been reading both of u guys argument for a while and I believe now is the time to make my intention known; I'm writing this not because I want to argue (may Allah guide me from it) but because I understand the trend of argument and I believe you are following the same trend. My conclusion are detailed below
you are welcome brother.i am happy your intention unlike others here is not to argue but to exchange ideas.i very much love that and i appreciate your input.


1) We - muslims - should know that we should not be dogmatic when it comes our beliefs, so as not to be misguided, we should always be in the process of learning and at the same time pray for Allah's guidance, because we can be easily misguided even why we think we are on the right path. Allah said in the Qu'ran of a people who their deeds will amount to null while they believe they are acquiring good with it; why? Because they are dogmatic about their beliefs, they refused the ayahs of Allah (SWT)
brother,there is a difference between personal issues that man have at his disposal and can learn from or change his views.but when it comes to religious principles whereby you and i are not the source of those teachings,but those teachings are believed to be divine or prophetic in origin,we cannot but to hang on stubbornly to them.however,it is good if either party see that one of the two is wrong since the two cannot be right at the same time and disagree.people only disagree on falsehood.and if they disagree on truth then they are misguided.inshaAllah we will examine those beliefs that we see as prophetic or divine and those that are not.

Say:"Truth has come and falsehood has vanished.for surely falsehood is bound to vanish by its own nature".


2) I personally as a person believe the denial of other sahabas and the reverence of Ali bin Talib is blindfolding the shias.
brother,first of all accusing us of "denial" of other sahaba is a generalized statement.we cannot be accused of "denial of other sahaba" because there are sahaba the Shia honor and respect and hold in high regard.in the other thread on the sahaba,LagosShia mentioned at least 10 sahaba who are viewed as the foremost in Shia Islam and the most loyal and staunch Shia of Imam Ali (a).these are even sahaba that Sunnis usually shy away from mentioning or if at all they are mentioned,little is mentioned.

i would let you yourself view the list of 10 sahaba and inshaAllah you should do a quick research on them.then you will see that the Shia do not deny the sahaba generally.the Shia in this instance are not dogmatic.rather it is the Sunnis who are dogmatic.they have made the word "sahaba" a title.and they have refused criticism no matter how honest especially against the few they hold in very high esteem due to their positions in the society then especially their political power which earned them strength and advantage ahead of other sahaba.the Sunnis should relax about their obsession with this sahaba issue and be less dogmatic.the Shia are only being pragmatic to examine history objectively and give credit to whom it is due and not give undue credit to whom it is not due.the sahaba were fallible men who could have erred or even gone astray.these men were not chosen by Allah (jj).sahaba is a very big term that included thousands of men who met and saw the Prophet (s).definitely,they were differnt in many different ways from one another.

i want you to follow the link below and study about the 10 Shia Sahaba of Imam Ali (a).then go to the previous page of that same thread and you will find a very good explanation on the Shia position and view of the sahaba.may Allah (jj) bless those who were steadfast and loyal even after the demise of Prophet Muhammad (s).

https://www.nairaland.com/820316/heroes-companions-prophet/1#11009234


as for the reverence of Imam Ali (a),you have to know that this is the command of Allah (jj).in the verse of mawaddah in the Quran it is a divine command to love the Ahlul-Bayt (a).so even if we are to assume that Imam Ali (a) was not nominated by the Prophet (s) to be his sucessor and he was just ordinary,then loving or revering him is a Quranic command like salat.if you refrain from that command then that must be the real state of blindness.


Yes, the prophet said Ali bin Talib (ra) is his to him what Harun is to Musa, but was he (saw) not the same person that said that if there would be any prophet after him, it would be Umar bin Kattab (ra),
brother,you have to know one thing.when it comes to all these empty honors and talk that have no consequence but appear as "pious fraud",many hadiths of praise were coined in favor of particular sahaba.

there was nothing even judging by the words of Umar that qualified him to the position of prophethood.Umar was someone who bowed to idols.prophets of Allah do not in their entire lifetime.you should know Imam Ali (a) likewise never and thus Sunnis praise him with the slogan "May Allah Glorify His Face" each time Imam Ali (a) is mentioned.

Umar was someone who lacked knowledge.to Umar's admission,he said:"if not for Ali,Umar would have surely perished" (because of his lack of knowledge).prophets of Allah (jj) are people blessed with great knowledge which Umar lacked.as for Imam Ali (a),he is the gate to the city of knowledge according to the Prophet (s).

Umar was someone not of great faith.upon hearing the rumor that the Prophet (s) had been martyred in the battle of Uhud,he was the first to take to his heels.and a Quranic verse scolding him was revealed that "if the Prophet died or is killed would you turn back on your heels (i.e. back to disbelief)".also not to mention other instances like in hudaibiyya where Umar would question the orders of the Prophet (s).Imam Ali (a) was known as "al-Karrar" or someone who never run away from the battelfield but was so staunch in belief that most of the battles Islam won was through the bravery and courage of Imam Ali (a).

this hadith therefore is nothing but empty praise trying to put Umar and the Prophet (s) on equal pedestals and give him a touch of infallibility and prophethood.that


was he (saw) not the one that said the money (in terms of charity) that he (saw) finds pleasing to him is that of Abu Bakr?
true.we have to be honest and that is what you get from Shia Islam.i do not know if the above hadith is correct.but abu bakr did expend of his wealth in the initial stage of Islam.however,his later actions portray him as a merchant in faith.he was merely an investor who wanted to reap his reward at the end of the day even if that means denying certain orders of the Prophet (s) later on.we saw that when he confiscated a very fertile land that produced much crops known as "Fadak" that the Prophet (s) left for his daughter,Sayyida Fatima (a).


Are Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman bin Affan (ra) not among the 10 people the prophet (saw) promised jannah? He said such things about them because he they earned his trust,
there is nothing like "10 people promised al-jannah".another fabrication.life according to islam is a test.for as long as you live,there is no guaranty you cant go astray.and if you do,then your due share of punishment would be awarded to you.just as we cannot sentence anyone to hell fire and we cannot claim jannah for ourselves or claim we are "saved" as christians do,we should not also believe that someone is "saved" in this life.i hope you get my point.


who was with him while he left mecca? Abu Bakr. He could have asked Ali, but instead, he choose Abu Bakr.
brother,Imam Ali (a) was the one who slept in the place of the Prophet (s) and presented himself as a sacrifice to enable the Prophet (s) escape from his house without suspicion that he was not in the house.Quraish had laid siege to the Prophet's (s) house while thinking all through the night that the person sleeping on the mattress was the Prophet (s).rather it was Imam Ali (a) while the Prophet (s) had escaped.

the episode of abu bakr joining the Prophet (s) during the journey is also not a merit for abu bakr.abu bakr displayed a lack of faith while in the cave and the Prophet (s) had to reassure him that God was with them and everything would be fine.this is evident from the Quran.again,i would advice you to research the details on these subjects and examine both the shia and sunni perspectives to get a clearer picture.there is no harm in you being sunni to me.but if you are to be sunni and hold these views,you should not impose those views on us.it is not like we are unaware of these subjects or we have no explanations on them,whether you agree with us (Shia) or not.


Lagosshia, at one point on this thread was calling these people hypocrites - may Allah forgive him - these are the people that spread islam to where it is today. Was it not during Uthman's yrs as the calliph that Islam spread to other parts of the world?
brother,the success and spread of Islam was a promise by Allah (jj).so whether or not umar or abu bakr or anyone spread the faith because they usurped the caliphate or it was the rightful person in place that was doing the job,credit is to Allah (jj).in fact if you examine how Islam was spread,it was spread in the wrong way.we are not taught in Islam to spread our faith using the sword as we see in some instances by the usurpers who call themselves caliphs.in fact this episode to this day has given a bad impression to non-muslims many of whom hold the belief that Islam is a religion of the sword.also let me make it clear that in most parts of the world where Islam is practiced by a majority,no sword was used.that is indeed the beauty of Islam.the freedom of choice known as "freewill" Allah (jj) has given mankind should be appreciated.Allah (jj) is testing us and has given us the freedom to believe or disbelieve.it is Islamically wrong to fight or kill anyone because their beliefs are un-Islamic.the Quran says:"let those who will believe and who will disbelieve".


The shias believe Ali bin Talib was wronged, and as such the three other calliphs are proxies to Ali. These hatred towards these caliphs - to my opinion - is leading shias blindly.
there is no hatred in knowing the truth and following the command of Allah (jj) even if the disbelievers ignore or go against it.this is not hatred.for instance christians cannot acccuse us of hating them because we Muslims do not believe in the so called crucifixion of Isa (as).in fact there are christians who think we hate Jesus (a) himself for not sharing their beliefs.that is exactly how you too are behaving here.and it is wrong.


Do you think Allah (azj) would made it possible for Abu Bakr and Umar to be buried beside the prophet if they were indeed hypocrites?
brother,it was neither Allah (jj) or the Prophet (s) who commanded abu bakr and umar be buried beside the Prophet (s) nor were they buried by Allah (jj) or the Prophet (s).this is just a non-issue here.

if i dig deep i could possibly find other instances of prophets who had bad associates or who probably were buried beside men who were blameworthy and displayed bad character to prophetic orders.


I read of a shia scholar desecrating (by spitting on) the graves of these two after he paid respects to the prophet. Please as muslims, we should not follow blindy but ask Allah to lead us; He (Azah wa jall) is the only one that can offer us guidance

brother,it is not part of the akhlaq (morals) of the Ahlul-Bayt (a) and the 12 holy Imams (a) to spit on the grave of anyone.even our scholars would not tolerate such an act.regardless of our dislike of those who disobeyed the Prophet (s) and injured,hurt or killed members of the Ahlul-Bayt (a) of Prophet Muhammad (s),we would not be dragged to do an act that will degrade our morals.
Re: In Honour Of Muslims That Lost Their Lives In Dana Air by yusuf01(m): 6:05pm On Jun 15, 2012
I must admit that I laughed when u said you sensed I was shaking while I typed the post. Insha Allah, I'll try as much as I can not to be lured into arguments because the prophet warned us against it.
In response to the dogmatism issue; let me make myself clear - when it comes to issues of aqeeda and tawheed, of course, we have to be dogmatic, it's like a matter of life and death, it's a matter of either serving/ not serving Allah (swt). But when it comes to the issue of the intricacies of religion (the politics of religion) then it's recommended to have an open mind because fanaticism stems from hatred and it therefore clouds judgement. The prophet (saw) advised us to be just even when it involves the ones we hate.

Alright, let me address what I meant by the shias being dogmatic. They are - to my knowledge - myopic with the facts they have. Brother in Islam, let me ask you, have you in a way try to understand the concepts of hadiths? To put it another way, do you understand the science of hadiths? Before I explain further, I know you are aware that some verses in the quran are abrogated by other verses, does that mean that Allah (swt) lied in the previous verses, or does it mean that Allah (swt) does not know the unseen and as such He (swt) had to change the verse? My point; there are hadiths that are said based on situations. For example, there was a time the prophet was in the market and was with a woman selling grains, the surface grains looked dry and as wise as the prophet(swt) was, dipped his hand inside and realised the grains at the bottom was wet, meaning the woman was trying to sell the bad grains based on the freshness of the good ones. The prophet (saw) said; he who deceives us is not one of us. Now look at this hadith: if I should take it the way it was, then I can say if anybody deceives a muslim, then he is a kafir (because 'us' used by the prophet (saw) means muslims). But can you call someone that is known for deceit a kafir? NO. So, there were times the prophet (saw) made statements based on situations. Another is about the sahaba that asked the prophet (saw) to advise him, he (saw) said; don't get angry, and repeated it 3 times. have you asked why he gave such an advice? Maybe the sahaba had problem with his temper and the best advice he (saw) could give him at that particular time was to calm is anger. He (saw) may have given another sahaba a different advice if asked (Allah knows best).

In one word, all the hadiths you quoted about the prophet (saw) saying such of Ali, ask yourself, who were the sahabas present, was Ali bin Talib (ra) there? Was Umar bin Kattab (ra) et al present? There could have been a reason he (saw) said such, maybe to the sahabas present, he (saw) was telling them; if I'm not with you and you see Ali bin Talib (ra), I trust him with his judgement (or other reasons, Allah (swt) knows best). As much as I know, shia scholars started this as a result of the fact that they believe Ali bin Talib (ra) was wronged about the caliphacy - they believed he was next in command after the death of the prophet (saw) and matters got worse when Abu Bakr (ra) was chosen when Ali bin Talib (ra) was not in the meeting. So everything looked like a conspiracy against Ali (ra), all this started and they started looking for hadiths (in my opinion) to justify the claim that he should be the next caliph. Yes he was not present but remember that Abu Bakr (ra) led the prayer while the prophet (saw) was on his sick bed. I believe you understand what that means; if I die he should lead. If you think that wasn't the case and the prophet would have chosen Ali (ra) ahead of Abu Bakr (ra), then he (saw) would have asked Ali to start leading the prayers while he was alive, even if Abu Bakr (ra) was about to lead. He (ra) would have done that because he (saw) choose Usama bin Zaid (a 15 year old boy) to lead the last expedition before his (saw) death even when we had sahabas like Umar and Ali (ra) that are warlords.

All I am saying is that don't rubbish the works of all sahabas and single out Ali (ra) as the saviour of the world, this is the same thing the christians are guilty of. They refused the messenger (saw) even when there are proofs right in front of them. Ali (ra) is all but a sahaba, just like other sahabas I have mentioned, in fact, there was a post of yours that you said you shias regard the prophet (saw) and Ali (ra) more like the same, but the prophet (saw) is of higher rank. This is a dogmatic (I can repeat the world a thousand times) statement, Ali (ra) is not in anyway close to the prophet. The prophet received revelations from Allah, Ali (ra) is a companion of the prophet (saw) just like other companions.

Because I don't want to be drawn into arguments and at the same time, I don't want you to question my beliefs (which I believed you did from your post), I'll no more be commenting on this issue. I pray that Allah (swt) guide us aright and reward us the best of our good deeds.
Re: In Honour Of Muslims That Lost Their Lives In Dana Air by yusuf01(m): 6:29pm On Jun 15, 2012
I'm writing this from a phone and as such I can't write with such convenience, I posted my last comment almost immediately you posted yours so my last comment was referring to the one before the last. But as regards your last comment, I can see a lot of generalisations on your part, and some hadiths you said were to praise Umar (ra) and et al. It's a pity I'm not too good quoting hadiths, maybe I should now for purposes as this. Yes Allah directed us to pray for the families of the prophet (saw), I'm aware of the fact (I seek Allah's forgiveness if my previous posts have belittled this command) but I'm all against making them as 'demi-gods'. They are not. Sahabas like you said are not infallible, so I want you to understand the fact. May Allah reward our efforts.
I promise to quote hadiths next time I come across to one, but for now, I'll not comment again.
Ma sallam
Re: In Honour Of Muslims That Lost Their Lives In Dana Air by Zhulfiqar1: 6:58pm On Jun 15, 2012
yusuf01: Another thing I'll like to add is the fact of quoting quranic verses that talked about tawassul; the prophet made it known during his years that this will only happen on the day of qiyamah (except you give me an hadith of the prophet that said directly that you can call him to intercede on your behalf).
there are many instances and a number already given where the people/sahaba did tawassul with the Prophet (s) in this world.even in the Quran,we are told that the Prophet (s) could seek forgiveness for his followers.in another instance regarding the hypocrites,Allah (jj) informs the Prophet (s) of some people that whether he seeks forgiveness for them or not,they will not be forgiven.

there are many instances where the sahaba used the Prophet (s) for intercession.not only that,i have come across hadiths where the sahaba used to gather the water the Prophet (s) used for wudu and even his hair for barakah (blessing).i hope you too would not see that as shirk.if kissing the black stone and rubbing the Ka'ba is not shirk,then why would that be shirk?

it is good you research well before making conclusions.


In fact I haven't seen someone as humble as the prophet; he always said to his sahabas not to pay so much reverence to him because he's only a prophet, to convey message. On his death bed, he warned us against this very evil.

there is no doubt that he was a man,a creature of Allah (jj),a faithful servant and prophet of Allah and nothing more.that is all not in conflict with tawassul.that is why tawassul is Islamic and not shirk.


So calling Ya muhammed each time you pray is not different from the christians calling Jesus. Ask them and they will tell you that Jesus (as) will intercede for them, that is why they are calling him.
we do not call "Ya Muhammad" each time we pray."Ya Muhammad" is a saying when you feel difficulty and reaching out to Allah (jj) for help.it doesn't even have to be in supplication as i showed a sunni hadith where Ibn Umar said 'Ya Muhammad' when his leg was paralyzed.

the christians calling Jesus (a) is different because we do not believe Muhammad (s) is God or a god.the christians do not believe that Jesus (a) will intercede for them.they believe he would be the one to judge them!they believe he is a god!!!i hope you now see there are differences that are very deep.


In fact, this issue of calling on the prophet (as) and Ali (ra) negates (in my opinion) the essence of what the prophet was trying to guide us against. On all his preachings, he made it known; I'm only a messenger.
not at all.being a messenger or a human being does not mean if tawassul is done,it elevates them to gods.never!


Why did Allah (swt) said in the popular verse; I'm am closer to you than your jugular vein? Was He (swt) not talking about prayers? So why will He (swt) support intercession when you can directly pray to him.
he is close to us and we undoubtedly can pray directly to Him.there is no doubt about that if you choose to do so.but it is wrong for you to call Muslims who perform tawassul "idolaters".

tawassul could be perform not because Allah (jj) is far off from us.rather because we are far off from him due to our actions and we intend to get closer to Him.also the feeling of guilt from sinful acts or feeling bad in not doing enough to please Allah (jj) could lead one to plead with Allah (jj) to favor him for the sake of those faithful and exemplary servants of Allah (jj).


Just like maclatunji pointed out; with your logic (of using the names of pious men to call on Allah) why not call on Ibrahim (as), he's the friend of Allah. Why not Musa (as), he spoke with Allah (swt) directly? Why is it rusulilah (swt) and ALI BIN TALIB (ra)?
there is no harm in reaching out to Allah (jj) through doing tawassul with other prophets.no objection at all.i earlier on explained that.i am not sure if you read my response or not.

Muslims desire or prefer to do tawassul with Muhammad (s) and his Ahlul-Bayt (a) because we are part of the ummah of Muhammad (s) and not of other prophets.also Muhammad (s) is the sayyidul mursalin (master of the messengers).had there being any reason for other prophets to do tawassul,it is Muhammad (s) they would do use as wasilah (intercessor) with Allah (jj).we saw that in the case of Adam (a) when he felt the need to do tawba (get closer to Allah) and this is reported in sunni hadiths.


Of course you can pray to Allah saying; ya Allah, consider the blessings you granted rusulilah (saw) please grant me my heart desires. That is permitted;
you are doing tawassul and using the Prophet (s) as wasilah while talking against the practice.being programmed is not a good thing.and you were the one telling us not to be dogmatic. grin


but saying; Yah Mohammed? That is taking it to another level, you are calling on the dead.
that is not taking it to another level.calling Ya Muhammad is to gain the attention and mercy of Allah (jj).Muhammad (s) is a mercy to humanity as the Quran says.even if he is dead and does not hear us,then Allah (jj) does hear us.

now,i have not really touched on the subject whether or do according to the Quran and Islam,the dead can hear.that is another topic entire we can touch on or you can research.using the Quran would be enough to see that the pious servants of Allah (jj) even after physical death,they live on by the permission of Allah (jj).Allah (jj) says:"do not consider those slain in the path of Allah as dead.nay! they are alive and sustenance is given to them by their Lord".i am sure you will see that a prophet of Allah (jj) is far greater than a martyr.let me just stop there.

let us see from sunni hadiths if the Prophet (s) can hear us or not:

Hafiz ibn al-Qayyim writes that the Prophet of Allah (may Allah bless him and grant him peace) said:

"Send salutations on me, but send more salutations on Friday. When you recite the salutation, your voice will reach me wherever you are. Some Companions asked, "Even after your death?"The Prophet (may Allah bless him and grant him peace) replied, "Allah has made it unlawful for the earth to decompose my body"

[Ibn-al-Qayyim, Jala-ul-Afhaan, page 145]

Imam Nasa'i narrates that there are specific angels who visit the earth and whose sole duties are to go to the people who send salutations upon the Prophet Muhammad (may Allah bless him and grant him peace) and then to take those salutations to the Prophet Muhammad (may Allah bless him and grant him peace).

[Mishkat, chapter on 'salat al Nabi']

The above mentioned Ahadith indicate that if anyone were to send salutations to the Prophet (may Allah bless him and grant him peace) he himself would either hear the salutations, or an angel will convey them to him. In both cases salutations will reach the Prophet (may Allah bless him and grant him peace).


The prophet said he left us with the quran and sunnah,
how can you say he left us with Quran and sunnah? the sunnah is extracted from hadiths.when the Prophet (s) passed away the hadiths were not written.also after his death,many falsified hadiths were attributed to him.so how do we know what is acceptable and what is not? who do we follow?and how can we follow the sunnah,or the sunnah be left when it was not written?

anyways,to cut it short,in the "Hadith of the Two Weighty Thing" (read more about it),the Prophet (s) said he left us with the Quran and his progeny,who are his Ahlul-Bayt (a).the hadith that he left us with "Quran and sunnah" is false.

the correct hadith (found in sunni sources and accepted even by sunnis) is "hadith ath-thaqalain" which mentions the "Quran and the Itrah (progeny from Ahlul-Bayt)".

please kindly watch (with english subtitles) the below and see the myth debunked:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NonJfDNdvII


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3y4EMXD2JwA&feature=related

he (saw) never directly (as far as I know, and you can provide the hadiths if you have any when he said directly that you can say; ya mohammed) said we should call on him. Of course pple went to him for prayers, he was the one closer to Allah and any prayer he said Allah answered. This was because they could see him and he could be easily be gained access to. Not because they see him as the only channel to Allah in terms of prayer.

no one is saying he is the only channel to Allah (jj).in fact going to him for "prayers" as you put means they went to him for him to "plea" with Allah (jj) and not to pray or worship on anyone's behalf.in Islam,no one can pray the obligatory prayer on behalf of another person.rather it is supplication that the Prophet (s) did for others in the form of intercession.

saying Ya Muhammad does not amount to shirk as you can see below and two companions demonstrated and prominent sunni hadith scholars narrated and saw nothing shirk in it:

[b]1.[/b]Bukhari in his Adab al-mufrad, Nawawi in his Adhkar, and Shawkani in Tuhfat al-dhakirin all relate the narrations of Ibn `Umar and Ibn `Abbas whereby they would call out Ya Muhammad whenever they had a cramp in their leg (Chapters entitled: "What one says if he feels a cramp in his leg"wink. Regardless of the grade of these narrations, it is significant that Bukhari, Nawawi, and Shawkani never raised such a disturbing notion as to say that calling out "O Muhammad" amounted to shirk. See the following editions:

Nawawi's Adhkar:1970 Riyadh edition: p. 271;1988 Ta'if edition: p. 383;1992 Mecca edition: p. 370

Bukhari's Adab al-mufrad:1990 `Abd al-Baqi Beirut edition: p. 286 ;1994 Albani edition entitled Da`if al-adab al-mufrad: p. 87

The latter gives as a reference: Takhrij al-kalim al-tayyib (235)";Beirut: `Alam al-kitab: p. 324;Beirut: Dar al-kutub al-`ilmiyya: p.142.

Shawkani's Tuhfat al-dhakirin:1970 Beirut: Dar al-kutub al-`ilmiyya: p. 206-207.

[b]2.[/b]Hafiz Ibn Kathir, Imam at-Tabari and Imam Ibn al-Athir all wrote:

" During the Khilafa of Abu Bakr as-Siddique there was a battle against the false prophet, Musaylima of Najd. When the battle commenced, the Muslims lost their footing at which point Khalid ibn Walid (may Allah be pleased with him) and the rest of the Companions called out 'Ya Muhammad!' (may Allah bless him and grant him peace) and proceeded to win the battle"

[Tabari, Ta'rikh at-Tabari; Ibn Kathir, Ta'rikh Ibn Kathir; and Ibn al-Athir and Ibn Jarir, Ta'rikh Qamil, chapter on 'Musaylima Kazzab']

[b]3.[/b]Hafiz Ibn Kathir, Imam at-Tabari and Imam Ibn al-Athir all wrote:

" During the Khilafa of Abu Bakr as-Siddique (may Allah be pleased with him) there was a battle against the false prophet, Musaylima of Najd. When the battle commenced, the Muslims lost their footing at which point Khalid ibn Walid (may Allah be pleased with him) and the rest of the Companions called out 'Ya Muhammad!' (may Allah bless him and grant him peace) and proceeded to win the battle"

[Tabari, Ta'rikh at-Tabari; Ibn Kathir, Ta'rikh Ibn Kathir; and Ibn al-Athir and Ibn Jarir, Ta'rikh Qamil, chapter on 'Musaylima Kazzab']

[b]4.[/b]Hafiz Ibn Kathir, Imam at-Tabari and Imam Ibn al-Athir all wrote:

" During the Khilafa of Abu Bakr as-Siddique (may Allah be pleased with him) there was a battle against the false prophet, Musaylima of Najd. When the battle commenced, the Muslims lost their footing at which point Khalid ibn Walid (may Allah be pleased with him) and the rest of the Companions called out 'Ya Muhammad!' (may Allah bless him and grant him peace) and proceeded to win the battle"

[Tabari, Ta'rikh at-Tabari; Ibn Kathir, Ta'rikh Ibn Kathir; and Ibn al-Athir and Ibn Jarir, Ta'rikh Qamil, chapter on 'Musaylima Kazzab']

[b]5.[/b]From Abu Hurayra: I heard the Prophet (s) say: "By the one in Whose hand is Abu al-Qasim's soul, `Isa ibn Maryam shall descend as a just and wise ruler. He shall destroy the cross, slay the swine, eradicate discord and grudges, and money shall be offered to him but he will not accept it. Then he shall stand at my graveside and say: Ya Muhammad! and I will answer him."

Abu Ya`la relates it with a sound chain in his Musnad (Dar al-Ma'mun ed. 1407/1987) 11:462; Ibn Hajar cites it in al-matalib al-`aliya (Kuwait, 1393/1973) 4:23, chapter entitled: "The Prophet's life in his grave" and #4574; Haythami says in Majma` al-zawa'id (8:5), chapter entitled: "`Isa ibn Maryam's Descent": "Its sub-narrators are the men of sound (sahih) hadith."


[Tabari, Ta'rikh at-Tabari; Ibn Kathir, Ta'rikh Ibn Kathir; and Ibn al-Athir and Ibn Jarir, Ta'rikh Qamil, chapter on 'Musaylima Kazzab']




I'm in the middle of the night typing this, I just want you to understand that we can't do islam without proper understanding its concepts. NEVER has the prophet asked us to follow Ali bin Talib (ra) dogmatically and leave other sahabas, and NEVER has he said intercession is permitted while on earth.

Imam Ali (a) was appointed by the Prophet (s) through the command of Allah (jj) to be his succesor whom the other sahaba should follow and obey.numerous companions did abide by that while others followed the status quo and the usurpers who were in power.

see: Hadith al-Wilayah;Hadith al-Manzilah;Hadith Ghadir Khumm;Hadith of the Two Weighty Things;Hadith of Twelve Successors;Verse of Wilayah;Verse of Ulil-Amr.

again,i have demonstrated that intercession is allowed on earth.even you have done it in this thread.


In fact, when he was on the death bed, Abu Bakr led the prayers, if he wasn't competent, or rusululah felt Ali is better placed, he would have asked Ali to, but instead Abu Bakr did and he was happy (smiled at the congregation while looking at them).

the Prophet (s) did not order abu bakr to lead any prayer.the hadiths in sunni books are conflicting and the reaction of the Prophet (s) was not pleasing.please research on this.i do not seek to argue.so please do your research from the shia and sunni point of views and compare.

at that point in time if i am not mistaken,Imam Ali (a) was not in Medinah.also abu bakr and Umar had being ordered to join the army of Usama Ibn Zaid.


Don't single out one and rubbish the works of others (what I belief shia muslims are guilty of doing). We only have one life to live, we can't afford to make mistakes, let's pray to Allah to lead us, not following imams in a dogmatic manner. It is your duty to seek knowledge and yours also to separate the grains from the chaffs.

May Allah guides us all, Ma sallam

you started well but you all of a sudden became dogmatic.there is nothing bad in that in my view.just be dogmatic on what Allah (jj) and His Prophet (s) ordered and not on what you think or others say or said.

Salam.
Re: In Honour Of Muslims That Lost Their Lives In Dana Air by Zhulfiqar1: 7:09pm On Jun 15, 2012
yusuf01: I must admit that I laughed when u said you sensed I was shaking while I typed the post. Insha Allah, I'll try as much as I can not to be lured into arguments because the prophet warned us against it.
In response to the dogmatism issue; let me make myself clear - when it comes to issues of aqeeda and tawheed, of course, we have to be dogmatic, it's like a matter of life and death, it's a matter of either serving/ not serving Allah (swt). But when it comes to the issue of the intricacies of religion (the politics of religion) then it's recommended to have an open mind because fanaticism stems from hatred and it therefore clouds judgement. The prophet (saw) advised us to be just even when it involves the ones we hate.
brother,Imamate is an aqeedah which you do not follow and that is understandable.


Alright, let me address what I meant by the shias being dogmatic. They are - to my knowledge - myopic with the facts they have. Brother in Islam, let me ask you, have you in a way try to understand the concepts of hadiths? To put it another way, do you understand the science of hadiths? Before I explain further, I know you are aware that some verses in the quran are abrogated by other verses, does that mean that Allah (swt) lied in the previous verses, or does it mean that Allah (swt) does not know the unseen and as such He (swt) had to change the verse? My point; there are hadiths that are said based on situations. For example, there was a time the prophet was in the market and was with a woman selling grains, the surface grains looked dry and as wise as the prophet(swt) was, dipped his hand inside and realised the grains at the bottom was wet, meaning the woman was trying to sell the bad grains based on the freshness of the good ones. The prophet (saw) said; he who deceives us is not one of us. Now look at this hadith: if I should take it the way it was, then I can say if anybody deceives a muslim, then he is a kafir (because 'us' used by the prophet (saw) means muslims). But can you call someone that is known for deceit a kafir? NO. So, there were times the prophet (saw) made statements based on situations. Another is about the sahaba that asked the prophet (saw) to advise him, he (saw) said; don't get angry, and repeated it 3 times. have you asked why he gave such an advice? Maybe the sahaba had problem with his temper and the best advice he (saw) could give him at that particular time was to calm is anger. He (saw) may have given another sahaba a different advice if asked (Allah knows best).

brother,those hadiths that give definitions on who is a kafir are meant to guide us against bad character.we cannot call each other kafir or judge ourselves because we all recite shahada.nontheless bad character can be identifed and condemned.and then Allah (jj) will administer judgement and punishment.


In one word, all the hadiths you quoted about the prophet (saw) saying such of Ali, ask yourself, who were the sahabas present, was Ali bin Talib (ra) there? Was Umar bin Kattab (ra) et al present? There could have been a reason he (saw) said such, maybe to the sahabas present, he (saw) was telling them; if I'm not with you and you see Ali bin Talib (ra), I trust him with his judgement (or other reasons, Allah (swt) knows best). As much as I know, shia scholars started this as a result of the fact that they believe Ali bin Talib (ra) was wronged about the caliphacy - they believed he was next in command after the death of the prophet (saw) and matters got worse when Abu Bakr (ra) was chosen when Ali bin Talib (ra) was not in the meeting. So everything looked like a conspiracy against Ali (ra), all this started and they started looking for hadiths (in my opinion) to justify the claim that he should be the next caliph. Yes he was not present but remember that Abu Bakr (ra) led the prayer while the prophet (saw) was on his sick bed. I believe you understand what that means; if I die he should lead. If you think that wasn't the case and the prophet would have chosen Ali (ra) ahead of Abu Bakr (ra), then he (saw) would have asked Ali to start leading the prayers while he was alive, even if Abu Bakr (ra) was about to lead. He (ra) would have done that because he (saw) choose Usama bin Zaid (a 15 year old boy) to lead the last expedition before his (saw) death even when we had sahabas like Umar and Ali (ra) that are warlords.
the Prophet (s) did not order abu bakr to lead prayer.

abu bakr and umar were part of the expedition headed by Usama Ibn Zaid (ra).they both disobeyed the prophetic order to join Usama's army.

the Prophet (s) did appoint Imam Ali (as) as Imam and successor.


All I am saying is that don't rubbish the works of all sahabas and single out Ali (ra) as the saviour of the world, this is the same thing the christians are guilty of. They refused the messenger (saw) even when there are proofs right in front of them. Ali (ra) is all but a sahaba, just like other sahabas I have mentioned, in fact, there was a post of yours that you said you shias regard the prophet (saw) and Ali (ra) more like the same, but the prophet (saw) is of higher rank. This is a dogmatic (I can repeat the world a thousand times) statement, Ali (ra) is not in anyway close to the prophet. The prophet received revelations from Allah, Ali (ra) is a companion of the prophet (saw) just like other companions.
"companion" is neither a merit nor a title.

Imam Ali (a) was appointed and we believe in imamate.


Because I don't want to be drawn into arguments and at the same time, I don't want you to question my beliefs (which I believed you did from your post), I'll no more be commenting on this issue. I pray that Allah (swt) guide us aright and reward us the best of our good deeds.

you have already made too many argumentative points which cannot either no be substantiated or they are wrong.that is why i contained myself in simply stating our Shia beliefs and then it is left for you to do your research.
Re: In Honour Of Muslims That Lost Their Lives In Dana Air by yusuf01(m): 7:31pm On Jun 15, 2012
I must admit I liked the way you made yourself clear (lots of people would have been abusive conveying their message), but nonetheless, I think I have to read more into shia's perspective of situations because I think I'm lacking in that aspect. I need to see through your paradigm and understand your points. I like facts (which you have provided in abundance), reading through your facts make me curious, which insha Allah, will make me learn about your beliefs. May Allah guide us aright.

That being the case, I'll look into some historical events during the last expedition, you are painting a picture of unhappy sahabas (Abu Bakr and Umar (ra)) that are looking for ways to go against the prophetic order, never have I read about the prophet complaint about these two sahabas during this time. But as for now, I'm not with facts (I'm not good at quoting, I'm mostly not into argumentative situations)

Ma sallam

1 Like

Re: In Honour Of Muslims That Lost Their Lives In Dana Air by Zhulfiqar1: 7:55pm On Jun 15, 2012
yusuf01: I must admit I liked the way you made yourself clear (lots of people would have been abusive conveying their message), but nonetheless, I think I have to read more into shia's perspective of situations because I think I'm lacking in that aspect. I need to see through your paradigm and understand your points. I like facts (which you have provided in abundance), reading through your facts make me curious, which insha Allah, will make me learn about your beliefs. May Allah guide us aright.

That being the case, I'll look into some historical events during the last expedition, you are painting a picture of unhappy sahabas (Abu Bakr and Umar (ra)) that are looking for ways to go against the prophetic order, never have I read about the prophet complaint about these two sahabas during this time. But as for now, I'm not with facts (I'm not good at quoting, I'm mostly not into argumentative situations)

Ma sallam

http://www.al-islam.org/restatement/39.htm

http://www.answering-ansar.org/answers/pen_and_paper/en/index.php

http://www.answering-ansar.org/answers/saqifa/en/index.php

http://www.answering-ansar.org/answers/hadith_manzila/en/chap1.php

http://www.answering-ansar.org/answers/imamate/en/chap1.php

http://www.answering-ansar.org/answers/creed_of_shia_explained/en/chap5.php

SALAM!
Re: In Honour Of Muslims That Lost Their Lives In Dana Air by LagosShia: 8:44pm On Jun 15, 2012
@brother Zhul-Fiqar

i am very pleased to see the tremendous work you have done in my absence during my ban.you have even done more than i could have done.inshaAllah you will be greatly rewarded.you are really deserving of the name "Zhul-Fiqar".you truly are as sharp as "Zhul-fiqar".

after pages of futile arguments and empty words and falsehood by the Nasibis,in one page (this page),you silenced (with very hot slaps of truth,sound reasoning,evidence and facts) two wahhabi wannabes and you showed facts to a sincere brother who wanted truth.

may Allah (swt) show truth to those who seek and promote it and severe punishment to those who blind their hearts and fight the truth.
Re: In Honour Of Muslims That Lost Their Lives In Dana Air by BetaThings: 4:33am On Jun 16, 2012
LagosShia: @brother Zhul-Fiqar

i am very pleased to see the tremendous work you have done in my absence during my ban.you have even done more than i could have done.inshaAllah you will be greatly rewarded.you are really deserving of the name "Zhul-Fiqar".you truly are as sharp as "Zhul-fiqar".

after pages of futile arguments and empty words and falsehood by the Nasibis,in one page (this page),you silenced (with very hot slaps of truth,sound reasoning,evidence and facts) two wahhabi wannabes and you showed facts to a sincere brother who wanted truth.

may Allah (swt) show truth to those who seek and promote it and severe punishment to those who blind their hearts and fight the truth.
Name calling and cursing return - this heart is not blind?
Wlecome back
Re: In Honour Of Muslims That Lost Their Lives In Dana Air by yusuf01(m): 7:10am On Jun 16, 2012
@LagosShia, brother, I'll have to say you are not conveying your beliefs in the best of manners. At some points on this thread, you resorted to calling names and labelling, sometimes using abusive words; this is not the way of the prophet (saw). Lots of souls the prophet (saw) won with his (saw) humility. There are meant to be disagreements at every aspects of life - deen inclusive - that does not mean the opposing figure is an enemy. Your last post was seeking Allah's (swt) punishment on people that disagreed with you, this is the last thing we as muslims should resort to. You don't want Allah's (swt) punishment even for your bitter enemy. We only as muslims pray to Allah to guide people aright while it is still good for them (when they are alive) because even the prophet (saw) prayed to Allah to soften the heart of either Abu Jahl and Umar (ra) to islam, he didn't seek Allah's (swt) punishment on them. My point is simple; we can win souls through humility, we shouldn't be arrogant with our knowledge even though we are on the right path, we should be humble enough to TEACH people our beliefs, even if they seem to disagree. May Allah (swt) reward us the best of our deeds and forgive us our shortcomings.

Salam Aleikum

(1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (Reply)

For How Long Can Husband And Wife Live Separately In Islam? / Side Turban Hijab Tutorial / Shia, Suicide Bombings And Iraan

(Go Up)

Sections: politics (1) business autos (1) jobs (1) career education (1) romance computers phones travel sports fashion health
religion celebs tv-movies music-radio literature webmasters programming techmarket

Links: (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10)

Nairaland - Copyright © 2005 - 2024 Oluwaseun Osewa. All rights reserved. See How To Advertise. 281
Disclaimer: Every Nairaland member is solely responsible for anything that he/she posts or uploads on Nairaland.