This is my personnel testimony. As might you know, some churches have pictures, statues, graven images. This angers God very much, in the Bible, Christians are told over 126 times that they are forbidden to make or use images of Saints or others in their worship.

For example;

Ex 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth:"

Le 26:1 Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up [any] image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I [am] the LORD your God"

Graven images is a topic of interest to me because while I was visiting a Catholic church, (Catholic churches contain the most statues and pictures more than other churches) I felt the Spirit. It was so
powerful and strong that I thought my heart was going to burst. It was like a hot coal filling up my chest. The statues were on all sides of me, behind me, in front of me, on my left and right. It was obvious others in this church were feeling the Spirit too.

Some were moaning and screaming with joy.

Once I left the church, as soon as the spirit came, so it had left. I then realized the difference between the spirits from the statues and the spirit from God.

The spirit from the statues which I felt in the church would grab hold of your heart and squeeze until you do not know the difference between up or down. Tthe spirit from God is more subtle but both your heart and mind are a part of it.

When I felt the spirit in the church, it was so strong. It clasped the heart so tightly that your mind turns off and you are simply letting your body take control. So your body is experiencing a strong surge or a high while your mind is overlooked, untouched. This clarified to me that I am not to chase the spirit that made me the highest, but rather the spirit that spoke to both my mind and heart.

God frequently spoke negatively about the statues, although it is not spelt out. I think it is because it was obvious that they have the potential to lead astray, to have us follow our hearts only.

Ps 78:58 For they provoked him to anger with their high places; they moved him to jealousy with their graven images.

Ps 97:7 All worshipers of images are put to shame, who make their boast in worthless idols; all gods bow down before him.

Isa 42:8 I am the LORD, that is my name; my glory I give to no other, nor my praise to graven images.

We see in the Holy Qur'an:

"Ye serve instead of Allah only idols, and ye only invent a lie. Lo! those whom ye serve instead of Allah own no provision for you. So seek your provision from Allah, and serve Him, and give thanks unto Him, (for) unto Him ye will be brought back. {Holy Qur'an translation 29:17}

"And they set up (idols) as equal to Allah, to mislead (men) from the Path! Say: "Enjoy (your brief power)! But verily ye are making straightway for Hell!" {Holy Qur'an translation 14:30}

We are often warned in all the Scriptures sent by God, to avoid letting the body lead us astray and are encouraged to use our God given minds. The use of the minds is promoted in both the Qur'an and the Bible over a 100 times each.

In conclusion, the Spirit of the statues can be like a drug, leaving your mind intoxicated, this drug has captured many and has prompted them to put more graven images in their place of worship and even hang graven images against their chest to maintain this spiritual _high_ .

If a Christian comes to you and wants you to experience this intoxicating feeling , [as the anti-drug commercials tell us] "Just Say No"

@luv2talk

Salam

Did you leave darkness for light because I was a christian and experienced similar and other issues in which no christian would be able to defend.

My being born into a christian family, attended missionary school, spent my early and late twenties as a xtian provided me the oportunity of knowing most of the doctrines in xtianity and some inexplainable practices

luv2talk:

We are often warned in all the Scriptures sent by God, to avoid letting the body lead us astray and are encouraged to use our God given minds. The use of the minds is promoted in both the Qur'an and the Bible over a 100 times each.

This was the only thing of interest to me in all the twaddle you posted earlier.

The "use of the mind" is NOT promoted in the bible . . . maybe your own specially prepared version.
1 Corinthians 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.

Salam all

May Allah reward all muslims for calling people to Tawhîd (Islâmic Monotheism or the absolute Oneness of Allâh)

Jazakullah Khairan


@davidylan

I thought you would have accepted Islam while I was away but you are still doing strong head.

I am back now.

@ combatant : im Very happy for you,may we dwell together in al- janah firdauz for ever, Amen wa Amen, well, im not a New convert,i was born a Muslim and a Graduate of Islamic studies from one of the reputable univeristies in Nigeria, im happy to see someone like you in this forum.Ilal amam,Inshallah

@combatant


Alhamdulillah, we started from the darkness to light. Go through my posts and read about my journey from darkness to light.

I was like davidylan and co but Allah touched my heart and I have been muslim and will die as one.


Salam

babs787:

@combatant


Alhamdulillah, we started from the darkness to light. Go through my posts and read about my journey from darkness to light.

I was like davidylan and co but Allah touched my heart and I have been muslim and will die as one.


Salam

need i say anything?

@combatant,

combatant:

@luv2talk

Salam

Did you leave darkness for light because I was a christian and experienced similar and other issues in which no christian would be able to defend.

Lol. . . do you really have to lie so blatantly in order to sound apologetic? What Christian denomination did you belong to before your "conversion"? Making cheap claims like this is yet another demonstration of how far-reaching Muslim duplicity can go in order to pretend the obvious.

combatant:

My being born into a christian family, attended missionary school, spent my early and late twenties as a xtian provided me the oportunity of knowing most of the doctrines in xtianity and some inexplainable practices

Okay, I hear. Is that what made you a "Christian"? Hehe. . .

@luv2talk,

luv2talk:

@ combatant : im Very happy for you,may we dwell together in al- janah firdauz for ever, Amen wa Amen, well, im not a New convert,i was born a Muslim and a Graduate of Islamic studies from one of the reputable univeristies in Nigeria, im happy to see someone like you in this forum.Ilal amam,Inshallah

Lol. . . "a graduate of Islamic studies" - and I can applaud the sincerity of your not pretending to have "converted" from Christianity to Islam as your adulator claimed. I know. . . Muslims have questioned whether or not I actually was a Muslim - and I have well demonstrated the fact. But we know where some are pretending claims that only turn out as comic relief.

Nonetheless, let's see what you supposed was your worry in creating this thread.

luv2talk:

This is my personnel testimony. As might you know, some churches have pictures, statues, graven images. This angers God very much, in the Bible, Christians are told over 126 times that they are forbidden to make or use images of Saints or others in their worship.

True talk - Christians are forbidden to involve the use of such images or relics in divine worship to God. And indeed, there are many churches where some of these things are found - Catholic and Anglican churches, as well some Pentecostal and Evangelical denominations; but not all Christians engage in your purported allegation of idolatry.

Yet, these are the very things that I have much engaged Catholics on this Forum in articulate dicussions. . . showing them beyond the Biblical verses you posted, that such things constitute idolatry before God who has forbidden them. Not only so, several Christians have debated these issues among ourselves (and I even earned a "notoriety" that called for a 'friendly ban'); but the point is simple: Christians are not shy about honestly discussing issues and dealing with them, instead of pretending as Muslims often do! There are a lot of Christians who are very aware of these matters and have categorically decried them!

As such, your attempt to brand "Christians" as "idol-worshippers" is quite a laugh, because it is obvious that you were only trying to ridicule Christians by opening this thread. Perhaps, you should have taken a closer look at your ummah who have themselves thrashed every single warning of Muhammad against the very same thing you are now complaining against Christians here! The very things that inform your thread are the very same things that Muslims all over the world are practising!

luv2talk:

Graven images is a topic of interest to me because while I was visiting a Catholic church, (Catholic churches contain the most statues and pictures more than other churches)

Glad you noticed; and here's a verse again that detests what you claim to have noticed:

Isaiah 2:8
Their land also is full of idols; they worship the work of
their own hands, that which their own fingers have made.

But even so, just because you happened to have visited them and came away with such an impression does not mean that what you saw actually defines Biblical Christianity! If you were supposing it that way, it would just about be the same thing as arguing that the strange doctrines of the over 70 divergent sects in Islam are actually defining Muhammad's religion in the Qur'an!

luv2talk:

I felt the Spirit. It was so powerful and strong that I thought my heart was going to burst. It was like a hot coal filling up my chest.

Interesting. But uhm. . . could you tell us what you meant by "the Spirit"?!? As far as I know, Islam does not teach anything about THE Spirit of God (the same who is called "the Holy Spirit", but which Muhammad mistook for angel Gabriel).

luv2talk:

The statues were on all sides of me, behind me, in front of me, on my left and right. It was obvious others in this church were feeling the Spirit too.

Lol. . . again, to have supposed such was the same thing as authentic Christianity is to miss the point by a million miles.

@luv2talk,

luv2talk:

Some were moaning and screaming with joy.

Yeah, sounds a bit weird - like when Muslims chant their various opuses for some Muslim festivals, huh?

luv2talk:

Once I left the church, as soon as the spirit came, so it had left. I then realized the difference between the spirits from the statues and the spirit from God.

Interesting. May I ask again: who do you know as THE Spirit 'from' God (or, THE Spirit of God)?

luv2talk:

The spirit from the statues which I felt in the church would grab hold of your heart and squeeze until you do not know the difference between up or down. Tthe spirit from God is more subtle but both your heart and mind are a part of it.

"More subtle" is an important cliche that needs important qualification, so that we don't misunderstand you. Asides the conspicuous pun in your narrations, please understand that Muhammad did not describe the angel who squeezed him in the cave of Hira as "more subtle"!

luv2talk:

When I felt the spirit in the church, it was so strong. It clasped the heart so tightly that your mind turns off and you are simply letting your body take control. So your body is experiencing a strong surge or a high while your mind is overlooked, untouched. This clarified to me that I am not to chase the spirit that made me the highest, but rather the spirit that spoke to both my mind and heart.

I see. Then perhaps we might be left wondering what "spirit" squeezed Muhammad in the cave of Hira when he was commanded to read the first recitation of the "Qur'an". That experience didn't impress Muhammad at all - and the gentleman went home to his dear wife Khadija and said "cover me! cover me!" (Sahih Bukhari, Vol. 1, Bk 1, Num. 3). This is an excerpt of the incidence:

"The angel caught me (forcefully) and pressed me so hard
that I could not bear it any more . .Thereupon he caught me
again and pressed me a second time till I could not bear it
any more. . Thereupon he caught me for the third time and
pressed me . . .

Then Allah's Apostle returned with the Inspiration and with
his heart beating severely. Then he went to Khadija bint
Khuwailid and said, "Cover me! Cover me!" They covered him
till his fear was over and after that he told her everything that
had happened and said, "I fear that something may happen
to me.

Your repeated clauses on what "spirit" you had expereinced in your visit certainly did not leave you with a clear reminder of your Islamic scholarship on the fact that Muhammad was also "pressed". Perhaps then, by extention, it might be said that there seemed to have been a correlation between your Catholic visit and the Muhammadan experience in the cave of Hira - which as you described, leaves your body "experiencing a strong surge or a high while your mind is overlooked, untouched". I hope you didn't come away saying, as Muhammad did: "I fear that something may happen to me"?!?

@luv2talk,

luv2talk:

God frequently spoke negatively about the statues, although it is not spelt out. I think it is because it was obvious that they have the potential to lead astray, to have us follow our hearts only.

Actually, God actually spelt out what He meant by idolatry - and it concerned both matters of carved images or molten statutes (Exo. 34:17; Lev. 19:4; Deut. 27:15) as well as "idols of the heart" - which would include the tendency of the whole man to be idolatrous (Ezek. 14:3-4).

luv2talk:

We see in the Holy Qur'an:

"Ye serve instead of Allah only idols, and ye only invent a lie. Lo! those whom ye serve instead of Allah own no provision for you. So seek your provision from Allah, and serve Him, and give thanks unto Him, (for) unto Him ye will be brought back. {Holy Qur'an translation 29:17}

"And they set up (idols) as equal to Allah, to mislead (men) from the Path! Say: "Enjoy (your brief power)! But verily ye are making straightway for Hell!" {Holy Qur'an translation 14:30}

We are often warned in all the Scriptures sent by God, to avoid letting the body lead us astray and are encouraged to use our God given minds. The use of the minds is promoted in both the Qur'an and the Bible over a 100 times each.

As regards the last line of that quote, the use of the mind in Biblical terminology is a supernatural work of God which enlightens the seat of knowledge in man. Since the mind is closely associated with understanding, we find that God Himself is the One who grants that blessing:

Psalm 119:130
The entrance of thy words giveth light;
it giveth understanding unto the simple.

Proverbs 1:23
Turn you at my reproof: behold,
I will pour out my spirit unto you,
I will make known my words unto you.

If God does not enlighten the mind, man would be utterly unable to grasp spiritual matters.

luv2talk:

In conclusion, the Spirit of the statues can be like a drug, leaving your mind intoxicated, this drug has captured many and has prompted them to put more graven images in their place of worship and even hang graven images against their chest to maintain this spiritual _high_ .

Lol. . . I'm sorry, but your conclusion has two issues that stand out conspicuously:

(a) you have only weakly presented any case for the topic of this thread; and therefore defeated your own purpose in any attempt to show that "Christians commit idol-worshipping". You have only selected a denomination (Catholicism - which incidentally influenced Muhammad's thinking about Christianity) and thus supposed that you're discussing "Christians" in the broad spectrum of Biblical Christianity.

(b) you again remind me of the fact that Muslims have themselves done this very thing that you complain about - and I have discussed this somewhat extensively. (please click here to see samples).

luv2talk:

If a Christian comes to you and wants you to experience this intoxicating feeling , [as the anti-drug commercials tell us] "Just Say No"

Actually, I said a big "NO" to Muslim duplicity years ago when I discovered that you guys often try to play the 'convenience game' of looking the other way and pretending not to see the colossal idolatry among Muslims that is no longer a secret! Perhaps, just perhaps, if you're one of those who would rather stick your head in the sand and pretend to have "visited" the link above and "not" seen my previous post on that, then I'll help you come round the fact by reposting it in my subsequent post.

Enjoy.

@luv2talk,

As promised, here is the detailed post I served olabowale when he hypocritically pretended that such issues do not exist in the Muslim world. You may follow the link and see where he tried to excuse his allegations in his rejoinders!

---

More Idolatry in Islam

Now recall that one of the things I mentioned earlier was that Muhammad had accused Christians of worshipping their priests and monks in shrines which they had built around their graves. That some of these things were partly true does not mean that they were a part of Biblical Christianity or even Judaism.

In all the Islamic texts where Muhammad made those allegation, there was not the slightest hint that he got that practice from the Bible - they were merely allegations Muhammad made in his seething hatred against Jews and Christians. Muslims today have taken Muhammad's baseless accusations to mean that is what the Bible teaches.

A few examples of Muhammad's allegations will suffice for the moment. There are EIGHT things I'd like to highlight for you in Muhammad's unfounded allegations. But first notice that a simple report was made to Muhammad concerning a picture which they had seen in an Abyssinian Church; and he not carry out any investigations of that simple report. Rather, he formulated his allegations and the began to rain Allah's curses on Jews and Christians.


(1) Muhammad's prejudiced judgement on a report he did not investigate

Sahih Muslim, Book 004, Num. 1076::
'A'isha reported: Umm Habiba and Umm Salama made a mention
before the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) of a church
which they had seen in Abyssinia and which had pictures in it.
The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: When a
pious person amongst them (among the religious groups) dies
they build a place of worship on his grave, and then decorate it
with such pictures.
They would be the worst of creatures on the Day of judgment
in the sight of Allah.
- - - - - - - - -

(2) Muhammad used that excuse for quarrelling with the Jews

Malik Muwatta Book 45, Num. 45.5.17:
Yahya related to me from Malik from Ismail ibn Abi Hakim that
he heard Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz say, "One of the last things that
the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace,
said was, 'May Allah fight the Jews and the christians. They took
the graves of their Prophets as places of prostration.
Two deens shall not co-exist in the land of the Arabs.' "

(see also Sahih Muslim, Book 4, Num. 1080 & 1081)
- - - - - - - - -

(3) Muhammad "warned" Muslims by cursing Jews and Christians

Sahih Bukhari, Vol. 4, Bk. 56, Num. 660:
Narrated 'Aisha and Ibn 'Abbas: On his death-bed Allah's Apostle
put a sheet over his-face and when he felt hot, he would remove it
from his face. When in that state (of putting and removing the sheet)
he said, "May Allah's Curse be on the Jews and the Christians for
they build places of worship at the graves of their prophets."
(By that) he intended to warn (the Muslim) from what they (i.e. Jews
and Christians) had done.
(see also S. Bukhari, Vol. 7, Bk. 72, Num. 706)
- - - - - - - - - - - -

(4) Muhammad warned Muslims to NOT take his grave as a place of festivity

Sunan Abu Dawud, Book. 10, Num. 2037:
Narrated AbuHurayrah: The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said:
Do not make your houses graves, and do not make my grave
a place of festivity. But invoke blessings on me, for your blessings
reach me wherever you may be.
- - - - - - - - - - -

(5) Muhammad feared Muslims would make his grave an idol for worship:

Malik Muwatta, Book 9, Num. 9.24.88
Yahya related to me from Malik from Zayd ibn Aslam from
Ata ibn Yasar that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless
him and grant him peace, said,
"O Allah! Do not make my grave an idol that is worshipped.
The anger on those who took the graves of their Prophets
as places of prostration was terrible."

Sahih Bukhari, Vol. 5, Bk. 59, Num. 725:
Narrated Urwa bin Az-Zubair: 'Aisha said, "The Prophet said
during his fatal illness, "Allah cursed the Jews for they took
the graves of their prophets as places for worship." 'Aisha added,
"Had it not been for that (statement of the Prophet ) his grave
would have been made conspicuous. But he was afraid
that it might be taken as a place for worship."
- - - - - - - - - - -

(6) Muhammad warned Muslims to not pray facing the graves

Sahih Muslim, Book 004, Num. 2121:
Abu Marthad al-Ghanawi reported Allah's Messenger
(may peace be upon him) as saying: Do not sit on the graves
and do not pray facing towards them.

Sahih Muslim, Book 004, Num. 2122:
Abu Marthad al-Ghanawi reported Allah's Messenger
(may peace be upon him) as saying:
Do not pray facing towards the graves,
and do not sit on them.
- - - - - - - - - - -

(7) Muhammad forbade Muslims from building anything over graves

Sahih Muslim, Book 004, Number 2116:
Jabir said: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him)
forbade that the graves should be plastered
or they be used as sitting places (for the people),
or a building should be built over them.
- - - - - - - - - - -

(8.) Muhammad forbade Muslims associating graves with the mosques

Sahih Muslim, Book 004, Number 1083:
Jundub reported: I heard from the Apostle of Allah (may peace
be upon him) five days before his death and he said: I stand
acquitted before Allah that I took any one of you as friend,
for Allah has taken me as His friend, as he took Ibrahim as
His friend. Had I taken any one of my Ummah as a friend,
I would have taken Abu Bakr as a friend. Beware of those who
preceded you and used to take the graves of their prophets
and righteous men as places of worship,
but you must not take graves as mosques;
I forbid you to do that.


Certainly, there are far more than the foregoing that I could outline for your consideration. The point is that you often come to the Forum and make so much accusative noise without carefully examining your own religion and ummah to see that Muslims have broken EVERY SINGLE warning that Muhammad gave his devotees.

I was tempted to post the more heinous idolatry of Islam which not many people know about; but perhaps you may just prompt a good reason for me to do so as we go along. For the moment, let me show you clear evidence to the fact that Muslims have consistently thrashed Muhammad's protests and warnings - and the very thing he feared about Islamic idolatry is what they continue to do to this very day!

Muslims have thrashed EVERY SINGLE warning Muhammad gave

Now here's the amazing thing that Muslims do and yet pretend that nobody knows about. I'll list the references to Muhammad's warnings, and then follow them closely with clear facts as to Muslims thrashing them with impunity - so that YOU, olabowale may decide for yourself!


Malik Muwatta Book 45, Num. 45.5.17:
. . . 'May Allah fight the Jews and the christians. They took
the graves of their Prophets as places of prostration.
Two deens shall not co-exist in the land of the Arabs.' "


If Allah is going to fight the 'Jews' and 'Christians' for the sin described above, is he ready to fight Muslims as well for doing that exact same thing? For there is no denying that Muslims have very well taken the graves and burial sites of their prophets as places of worship. They have:

~ "decorated them (Sahih Muslim, Book 004, Num. 1076:)

~ "built places of worship around graves"
(Sahih Bukhari, Vol. 4, Bk. 56, Num. 660)

~ "made the graves places of festivities" [such as Hajj]
(Sunan Abu Dawud, Book. 10, Num. 2037)

~ "taken the graves as mosques"
(Sahih Muslim, Book 004, Number 1083)

~ taken Muhammad's grave as a "place of worship"
Sahih Muslim, Book 004, Number 2116:)

~ taken the graves of some of their notable figures as above
(Sahih Bukhari, Vol. 5, Bk. 59, Num. 725)

~ offered their prayers facing the graves"
(Sahih Muslim, Book 004, Num. 2122:)
(Sahih Muslim, Book 004, Num. 2121:)


It is now up to us to proffer clear and unambiguous pointers all the things listed above; and it is up to YOU, olabowale to either humbly acknowledge the FACT, or play the usual Islamic duplicity of DENYING them.

Here are a few examples:


#1. Muslims have decorated the graves and burial sites of religious figures in Islam (thus thrashing Muhammad's appeal to the contrary: [Sahih Muslim, Book 004, Num. 1076:]):

Peer Baba Shrine

Peer Budhan Ali Shah is regarded as a Muslim saint in Jammu, India. On the back side of the Civil Airport is famous Dargah of 'Peer Baba' (as he is popular called, and also regarded as the guardian of Jammu). Although his shrine is associated with the Sufism branch of Islam, it nonetheless is one of its few remaining stubs in Kashmiriyat and attracts devotees from all branches of Islam as well Hinduism and Sikhism. However, the Hindu and Sikh devotees vastly outnumber their Muslim brethren at the shrine when they gather every Thursday.

[img]http://jammukashmir.nic.in/tourism/jammu/30.jpg[/img]
The Decorated Grave of Peer Budhan Ali Shah

[img]http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:UYyaCu47Sx9toM:http://jammu.nic.in/jammphoto/peerbaba1.jpg[/img]
click here to see a larger picture of the man praying at the decorated grave of in exactly the Islamic style of supplicating Allah)


#2. Muslims also have "taken the graves as mosques" - again thrashing Muhammad's injunction against it, for example in Sahih Muslim, Book 004, Number 1083. This is even where the whole colossal failure of many Muslims is emblazoned, and I'll take my time to share some from various locations around the world (so that you know it's not a localized mishap of some Muslims):

(a) Imam Reza Shrine

A notable figure in Islamic theology, Imam Reza was poisoned and died in 817 in Sanabad. He is believed to have been the only one of the twelve Imams buried in Iran; the place of his burial named Mashhad ( the place of martyrdom, located northeast of Tehran, Iran; between the two mountain ranges of Binalood and Hezarmasjed). This site has become the most holy place of Shi'ite Muslim pilgrimage. The Goharshad Mosque is located south of the Imam Reza Shrine; and the latter is also the repository where the Government of the Islamic Republic of Iran stored the controversial enriched Uranium ("UF6 3.5 enriched" in experimental scales.

Pictures of Imam Reza tomb in the precincts of the Mosque

[img]http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:6zaONMEf4ZhGhM:http://www.anthro.uci.edu/html/Programs/Anthro_Money/Images/Z-shrine-image006.jpg[/img]



(click here for a closer view of the tomb inside the Mosque.)

More Examples of Muslims Shrine venerations:


Muslim tradition also has a veneration to John the Baptist, such that a Tomb was erected in his honour inside the Umayyad Mosque in Damascus. Scholars hold varying reports about this tradition: (a) some say only the head of John was found when the mosque was being refurbished; (b) others hold that his head is housed in a crypt below a mosque inthe old city of Sebastiya near nablus; (yet others claim the head was buried at Muwakir.

[img]http://www.usna.edu/Users/humss/bwheeler/images/tombs/yahya_umayyad.jpg[/img]

Whatever the tradition held, the point is that there is a TOMB of "John" inside the Umayyad Mosque in Damascus.




Inside the Mosque of Sayyida Zaynab in Caira, Egypt is a TOMB built as a shrine where Muslims hold their worship:

[img]http://www.usna.edu/Users/humss/bwheeler/images/zaynab_tomb.jpg[/img]


Despite the fact that Muslims are well aware of Muhammad's dying protests that they should not "plaster" any graves or "build anything over a grave" (Sahih Muslim, Book 004, Number 2116:), the direct opposite continue to be the vogue for them. Another example yet is the TOMB of Abu Bakr in Char Bakr Necropolis show below:

[img]http://www.usna.edu/Users/humss/bwheeler/images/tombs/abu_bakr(char).jpg[/img]


Another notable Islamic figure is Abū abd-Allah Muhammad ibn al-`Arabi; and in his honour, Muslims built his TOMB encased in glass in the lower level of a MOSQUE at the bottom of Mount Qasyun in Damascus, as shown below:

[img]http://www.usna.edu/Users/humss/bwheeler/images/tombs/ibn_arabi.jpg[/img]



The Citadel of Qaitbay in Alexandria was founded by Sultan Al-Ashraf Abou Anasr Saif El-Din (or, Sultan Qaitbay), another noted figure in Islam. His TOMB is in the "city of the dead" in Cairo, Egypt - and also housed in the tomb are said to be two footprints of prophet Muhammad preserved in black stone:

[img]http://www.usna.edu/Users/humss/bwheeler/images/qait_bay_tomb.jpg[/img]



The Jade casket of King Timur (surrounded by tombs of members of his family and other prominent figures from Timurid rule in Central Asia) are seen housed in the Bibi Khan mosque in Samarqand, Uzbekistan. See picture below:

[img]http://www.usna.edu/Users/humss/bwheeler/images/tombs/timur.jpg[/img]


Now, for those who are interested in viewing the FACT that these TOMBS are actually located INSIDE the MOSQUES, please [url=http://www.wasifmehdi.com/Images%20Gallery/Syria%20Easter%202007%20Trip/030407%20-%20Ziyarat%20Bab-e-Saghir/P4030002.JPG]click here[/url] to see the very large picture of an Imam standing in a mosque reading from a book (to his congregation), with the the TOMB of Hazrat Bilal housed inside the mosque and located just behind him.

The foregoing simply demonstrates that you have no clues what you're trying to argue; but then I could forgive the fact that Muslims in their zeal to push what is bogus in Islam would always try to make some unfounded noise and allege that nobody knows Islam like them! That is simply what you have been trying to sweat out in your long treatise; but sorry, your arguments do not change the facts on ground.

Indeed, the MARIOLATRY of Catholicism is not Biblical Christianity - I need to remind you about that. I can't blame you much that you often mix them up - because that was our experience before my conversion! But while searching and investigating matters on my own without the usual exculpations of the mullah, I discovered the humongous duplicity of the Imams who will read one thing in the Qur'an and Hadiths, and then go directly against their own Religion and thrash the protests of their own Prophet before his death!

All the rest of the elderly argument you made should be regarded as the complaints of an elderly man. So, in due respect I would not want to send you any headaches and hot flashes. . . so that you may have strength of heart to read some more when I take your next complaints apart.

Enjoy for now.

olabowale:

Have you seen any mosque or a muslim that ever erected an idol or any symbol and said it is reconciliable within Islam?

Do you remember your query, Olabowale? As quoted above, let me remind you by outlining them once again:

If I have seen:
(a) any mosque; OR
(b) a muslim

that ever ERECTED:

(a) an IDOL; . . .or
(b) any SYMBOL

. . . and said it is reconciliable within Islam?

And my bold assertive answer was:

Certainly, yes I have.

[img]http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:UYyaCu47Sx9toM:http://jammu.nic.in/jammphoto/peerbaba1.jpg[/img]

(reminder: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-86405.128.html#msg1618540)

I hope after you go through the above, you would carefully choose your words and not present your usual bloviates which you often mistake for "discussion".

Cheers.

I missed you dear pilgrim.
As a former muslim who has declared for Christ,your views are so insightful.
I pray that the Lord continue to increase you for I know that He will use you to turn many from darkness unto his marvellous light.

no wonder allah wants people like you beheaded

@nwando,

I can't tell how much I have missed you and so many dear ones on the Forum.

On the other hand, you're apt in this one:

nwando:

no wonder allah wants people like you beheaded

. . . but by the special grace of God, pilgrim.1 still lives to His glory!

God bless you many times over!

pilgrim.1:

@nwando,

I can't tell how much I have missed you and so many dear ones on the Forum.

On the other hand, you're apt in this one:

. . . but by the special grace of God, pilgrim.1 still lives to His glory!

God bless you many times over!

That's because friends of Allah don't know your place
How are you doing girl?

@somze!!

Lol. . . I was about logging out when I saw yours!

somze:

That's because friends of Allah don't know your place

Lol. . . that's true. But again, where I live and work are very congested, and it will take a very prophetic eye of such 'FOA' to spot a stubborn "pilgrim.1" in the crowd!

somze:

How are you doing girl?

My brother, I dey O! Doing okay. Exam don finish, I dey wait for result. . . been busy making up the hours I was away during my leave from office!

All the same, I trust you're doing good?

Cheers.

pilgrim.1,

Your detailed analysis of the subject matter teaches me alot about Islam. Whenever you open a thread or a topic, you support it with facts which is very important.

I pray our Father increase you in all knowledge, wisdom and understanding. I pray He gives you the spirit of revelation. God bless you.

Pilgrim
Good to hear. I know the results will come out great
Have fun with the work load in the office

@alexis,

alexis:

pilgrim.1,

Your detailed analysis of the subject matter teaches me alot about Islam. Whenever you open a thread or a topic, you support it with facts which is very important.

Indeed, it is very important to me that I share my persuasion with facts and try to be as detailed as could possibly be managed so that no one is left in doubts as to the issues being discussed.

alexis:

I pray our Father increase you in all knowledge, wisdom and understanding. I pray He gives you the spirit of revelation. God bless you.

God bless you many times over, alexis. Thank you for your prayers and encouragements.

@somze,

somze:

Pilgrim
Good to hear. I know the results will come out great

Amen and amen!!

somze:

Have fun with the work load in the office

Lol. . . it is hardly "fun", because the workload is so huge! But God is my strength.

How body?

LMAO!!!!!

I was going to add to this thread following the @Poster's comments about the Bible but I think Pilgrim sums it all up for us. Even the Kabba is bowed to each day by muslims. Are you sure you should not read to understand truth instead??@Poster. Having a picture of someone does not make that person an idol, BOWING to that person/picture/statue makes that person or thing your idol. Remove the Plank in your eye my man!!

@Pilgrim
wow. . . what an expository lecture from you pilgrim1. . keep it up jare  . . . I guess those guys of other religion have gone to reinforce . . ,  probably to come up with another username : luv3talk or luvMetalk     

Won ti po to. . .   Babu Controversy. . . .Jesus is LORD

[center]Wishing you success in your just concluded exams. All the best. [/center]

luv2talk now hates2talk?

@olowoTee

OlowoTee:

@Pilgrim
wow. . . what an expository lecture from you pilgrim1. . keep it up jare . . . I guess those guys of other religion have gone to reinforce . . , probably to come up with another username : luv3talk or luvMetalk

Oh my. . .!! I beg I go log out for now - you guys are killing me with such laughter!

OlowoTee:

[center]Wishing you success in your just concluded exams. All the best. [/center]

Amen O! Thank you - and God bless you much!

davidylan:

luv2talk now hates2talk?

Anytime he show, we go read his luv notes!

I don;t understand why they bother, thread after thread all they do is start a thread and then humiliate themselves. They come up with things against Christianity which for the most part cannot be supported and then they are shot down. What's the point? Maybe they like the embarrasment, maybe the like the repitition that unlike Islam, Christianity is not a fraud mingled with killing and grotesque conquests. Shame on Mohammad, he probably ate bad food and the hallucinations from it mad him think he was seeing "GOD" What brute?

Speaking of Idol-Worshipping, @Poster, did you even consult the story in Sudan today?? A british teacher being purnished for naming a teddy bear after mohammed. Is mohammed some sort of idol that his name can not be used by even people who do not believe in him at all?? Shame on those Christians who do worship mohammed so much so that even allowing kids name their teddy bear's after mohammed is considered as blasphemy. SHAME ON THOSE HORRIBLE HORRRIBLE CHRISTIANS!!!!!