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European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) › Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Club World Cup Champions 2025-2029 by A001: 7:59pm On Dec 03, 2021

Maximilan:
Factos, wanna compare

For me, it's CR7, closely followed by Messi, notwithstanding the recent award the latter won.

2 Likes

European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) › Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Club World Cup Champions 2025-2029 by A001: 7:22am On Dec 03, 2021

Maximilan:
Ronaldo gradually cementing his place as the second best to ever Grace the beautiful game

Who's now the first best ever? Messi?

Lols.

4 Likes 1 Share

Christianity Etc › Re: The Doctrine Of The Ufos by A001: 2:23am On Dec 02, 2021

otemanuduno:
CHAPTER SIX

1. Now after about three months did the king fall into a trance and saw a vision. And he was worried, because the vision was very great. For he has not seen such kind before.
2. And the king said, I saw a light in the image of a homo . And the light led me to a place and showed me something.
10. Now let one of you tell me the dream which I have dreamt, for many of the wise men of my land have told me that all heads in the world are connected and all hidden knowledge can be accessed by anyone who do critical meditation.

OtemAtum, what does critical meditation mean, and as a person or in your own (Otemic) philosophy, how do you do critical meditation on an issue?

Also, how do you do deep meditation?

European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) › Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Club World Cup Champions 2025-2029 by A001: 9:18pm On Nov 30, 2021

donjazet:
Very unfortunate you believe that. He is very effective to our overall gameplay. It may not be "nice" to your eyes, but it is pretty effective to our structure. If not he would have been dumped by tuchel since!

Okay

1 Like

European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) › Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Club World Cup Champions 2025-2029 by A001: 8:54pm On Nov 30, 2021

Nothing spectacular about Jorginho's game. He was just lucky to be a part of the winning squads for both his club and country.

He's an annoying player to watch.

4 Likes

Christianity Etc › Re: Nigeria’s Growing Atheist Community by A001: 8:59pm On Nov 28, 2021

Pr0ton:
Now we are clear that the unknown or unknowable God you as an agnostic talk about is not the same as the God the theist talk about. And you, just like an atheist, do not believe in the theist God/gods.

Please why then do you think atheists are dogmatic when they disregard the theist God?

And I'm going to assume (correct me if I'm wrong) where you disagree with atheists is when you think they disregard the "unknown" or "unknowable" God, which you have defined earlier as the source of all things.

If all I have pointed out above are correct, then congratulations in realising you're an atheist. Just like you, atheists disregard the theist God/gods. Just like you, atheists agree the source of all things is unknown and most likely will be unknowable. I think this is where you guys get the confusion.

I'm not an atheist. But I agree with an atheist on many issues concerning religion and life generally.

Christianity Etc › Re: Nigeria’s Growing Atheist Community by A001: 2:31pm On Nov 28, 2021

Pr0ton:
I can infer from your post that your take on religious gods is that they are some early advanced humans who once lived on this planet.

Yes, which means I don't believe in any god, and those entities must have also come from a (unknown) Source like all things in existence. I don't do beliefs, but knowledge.

Pr0ton:
If you believe this to be true why then are you an agnostic and not a theist?

God, if it exists, is unknown or unknowable.

Pr0ton:
Because that statement shows you acknowledge them to have existed at some point in time on this planet. I have quoted the statement below:
Or is your definition of God/god different from what a theist would call God/god?

I don't see or refer to them as gods. I thought I made that clear in my posts.

Christianity Etc › Re: Nigeria’s Growing Atheist Community by A001: 12:00pm On Nov 28, 2021*

Pr0ton:
1. That a human was called god doesn't validate that its attributes as a god existed. The human existed as a human and not as a god with super powers. Therefore god in the god sense didn't and doesn't exist.

Yes, that's true.

Pr0ton:
2. Not all gods have human references. The monotheistic religions at least state explicitly that their god is not a man.

Yes, it's true that not all gods have human references. But all the gods worshipped in religions have human-like traits, including Yahweh and Allah.

They're all deified humans judging from the their traits in the religious texts. Can you give me examples of a monotheistic religion?

If you want to say Christianity, don't forget the religion was established on the concept of trinity in Catholicism.

Also, Muslims like to paint Allah as a monotheistic god but by the time you study the history of the other religions predating Islam and see how different gods formed a trinity and are worshipped together as a God-head (one God), then it becomes clear the same practice is in Islam.

In many parts of Qur'an, We is used to refer to God. That is a God-head you're looking at or a group of gods existing or worshipped as a single God.

But most Muslims and Christians didn't take the time to study the history of older religions predating Christianity and Islam to see that almost all the concepts in the two Abrahamic religions were stolen from paganism.

Pr0ton:
3. You're making assumptions that possible advanced extraterrestrial lives are gods. I would take this as wishful thinking. That some other form of life is more advanced than us doesn't make them gods no more that we are gods to insects. They are just that. Advanced beings.

I clearly said the entities religious people call gods are advanced beings. I don't use the word god personally to refer to them.

If these advanced beings are existing in other parts of the Universe, I don't see them as gods or God.

Pr0ton:
4. You're moving from the concept of god defined by religion to a concept of god defined as the creator of the universe.

No, in any Abrahamic religion, the entity worshipped as God is called the creator of the universe. That's how the concept is in the religions, not my own making.

Pr0ton:
I can agree with you that there might be a source of the universe but to label this source god before we even find it (if we could ever find it) is, again, wishful thinking. The so called source might not even be conscious. It could just a scientific phenomenon. We should be open minded as to what this source might be and not label it beforehand god, else you wouldn't be open minded.

I never told you that if the Universe has a maker, it has to be a god or God. That's your own conclusion.

Pr0ton:
5. You can't use the word god for two different things. I.E i) a religious god that religious people worship. ii) a non religious concept that can be regarded as the source of the universe. If you ask me if the god of (i) exists, I will tell you no, it doesn't exist. If you ask me the same of (ii) I'll have to ask you why you think the source of the universe is or has to be a conscious being and if this is your definition of being open minded as to the origin of the universe.

You don't know the god worshipped in any Abrahamic religion is taken as the creator of the universe or the source/maker of all things?

You obviously haven't taken the time to study the Bible and Qur'an then.

You clearly don't understand what I said below, especially the highlighted because this comment of yours isn't related to my statement:

"The word god or God is man-made, but that doesn't mean all those entities worshipped in religions never existed on this planet at some time in the past and that doesn't also mean the Universe doesn't have an Origin or Source, which you might call God or refer to in another way."

I never said anything about the Source or Origin being God or a conscious being. Take your time to read posts before reacting to them.

Pr0ton:
6. You have to clear the air first by stating (a) whether or not the religious god exists or (b) if god to you as a mere explanation for the source of the universe is what you call god and not god in the religious sense or (c) if both are supposed to be the same. If you can clear this then we will be having a clear bone of contention.

If you understand the post you quoted, you won't be asking me this.

On this subject of gods' existence or non-existence, I regard all the entities called gods in religions as the early beings or the first settlers on this planet who created early humans in their image, taught them languages, and civilized them.

That's my own stance.

And there are many pieces of evidence in various parts of the world and in religious texts and their histories in support of this position.

Christianity Etc › Re: Nigeria’s Growing Atheist Community by A001: 8:37am On Nov 28, 2021*

Blakjewelry:
You are not getting the message. Without religion the world would be a shit hole, religion is the first attempt to streamline man's actions from that animals. You May claim to be an atheist but religion set the platform for other debates. 90% of us were born into a religion before we start to ask questions, I believe I have been an atheist long before you become one yourself but hoverever, I don't like to call my self because many people who called themselves atheist do not base their claim on research and knowledge rather just a way of clearing their conscience of guilt. I was so much interested in the the bible that I decided to study the ancient Jews life and culture, then with love for the history lead me to discovered whole truth, then I started asking hard even though I already have the answer this scared alot of people back then, the truth religion is very important, take away that and watch the world turn to chaos. We have alot of maniacs who being chained by the idea of eternal punishment. Also religion is kinda the yardstick we use in measuring morality or I can raise a thread less argue why it should be ok to kill a man using natural law. Hope you have heard the quote nothing is good or bad but thinking make it so.

Nigeria is a good example of the fact a religious society isn't necessarily a moral one.

The average Nigerian, who is religious, is corrupt and uses his/her favorite parts of the Bible and Qur'an to justify cheating other people, defrauding others.

(Just like the whites that brought Christianity into this country justified slavery and racism with some parts of the Bible.)

Morality is natural and immorality is a learned or acquired trait. The innocent babies we see all around us demonstrate this fact always, until they grow up and are taught how to lie, cheat others by their religious and corrupt parents or guardians or relatives.

Every human is born an atheist or agnostic. If you're a kind person, you don't need a god or a book to tell you to be nice to your fellow man.

Hence, you don't need religion to live a moral life and be kind to others. What you need is good philosophy and ethics.

Funnningly, religious people even copy the vindictive, wicked nature of Allah or Jehovah who they worship. This is one reason why Nigerians, with all their religiosity (hypocrisy), are some of the most wicked people in the world.

Looking at Sharia laws in Islam or the (bloody) history of Catholicism, you realize that religion doesn't make you a moral, kind person but can make you an extremely wicked person.

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Christianity Etc › Re: Nigeria’s Growing Atheist Community by A001: 8:18am On Nov 28, 2021

HellVictorinho3:
So ,if you don't turn things upside down,
You won't know how thoughts originate, how dreams happen (not necessarily made or chosen)....

How stuff is stored,.....

You wanna digitize ....

At the moment,
You can use whatever word you wanna use so that my dear 1Sharon will start considering your posts as true...

You clearly don't understand most of the things I said up there. But that's fine.

Christianity Etc › Re: Nigeria’s Growing Atheist Community by A001: 8:13am On Nov 28, 2021

Pr0ton:
Like I said earlier here, atheists' assertions are responses to theists' assertions. Atheists are not dogmatic in rejecting theists' assertions. Atheists are doing what any scientist would do if an hypothesis can not be substantiated with evidence. The idea of God was introduced by religion. Since the idea can not be confirmed by evidence and even religion itself has been found to be unreliable the claim of God's existence can be rejected. It is that simple.

Ask an atheist if the God the theists sell exists. He will tell you such God doesn't exist as he has examined the idea and doesn't find the logic and evidence for it. If anyone answers "I don't know" to that, he either hasn't examined the idea or he is confused. This has nothing to do with the limited extent the human knowledge of the universe is. You're examining an already established claim from theists. You can directly study this claim. It's like any other ideology. You can tell if it has a connection to reality or if it is just a wishful thinking. I don't need to have a 100% knowledge of the universe to know that getting bitten by a spider won't turn me into a man that can fly around using spiderweb as portrayed in the Marvel Spider-man movie or that chanting some words on a ring that I would later put on my finger won't make another person epileptic by hitting them with it as told by some people who believe in it.

Like your position about God's existence, it's like saying "I'm not sure" when someone asks you if the two aforementioned cases can actually happen for real.

The atheistic position looks naive to me as many atheists just think religious people merely manufactured names of the gods and goddesses they worship as God.

But only naive people would think that way because all these gods and goddesses are early beings that had existed on this planet.

For instance, if you study the history of our native religions in this part of the world, then you'll realize the fact all these gods and goddesses were deified humans.

So, only someone that's ignorant or naive about how the world works will say that gods and goddesses like Orunmila, Amadioha, Ala, Osun, Sango, etc. are objects of fiction that didn't exist or won't know that it's these early beings or past beings that rule the today's world.

The same thing applies to every other religion. All these gods and goddesses are simply past beings or the ancestors of their people (worshippers).

The word god or God is man-made, but that doesn't mean all those entities worshipped in religions never existed on this planet at some time in the past and that doesn't also mean the Universe doesn't have an Origin or Source, which you might call God or refer to in another way.

The entities called gods and goddesses are just advanced beings, and since we're yet to explore 1% of the Universe and have never set foot on any other planet in our solar system or beyond it, it's possible there are races of advanced beings out there in the Universe, which could be monitoring us.

Otem claims all these gods and goddesses are advanced beings who had lived and created all sorts of life on this planet billions of years ago and are now in other parts of the Universe and regularly monitor this planet with some technologies (built to look like stars in the sky but are really surveillance gadgets) and UFOs.

Given the vastness of this universe, there's a high chance that entities will be living in various parts of the Universe that our telescopes may not be sophisticated enough to detect yet.

For these reasons, I maintain that there's a possibility advanced beings that religious people call gods and goddesses do exist in other parts of the Universe.

The areas of Physics studying the origin and evolution of the Universe, UAPs, extraterrestrial life are Astrophysics, Cosmology, and ET/planetary science. And with time, advances made in those areas will reveal the truth.

It's more reasonable to me to approach the subject with agnosticism and open-mindedness rather than pitching my tent with either of the two extremes.

Christianity Etc › Re: Nigeria’s Growing Atheist Community by A001: 12:32am On Nov 28, 2021

HellVictorinho3:
I have never been to any school before...

I learnt how to post in my dreams...

I have never heard of Physics, Chemistry, Biology , etc before...

I reside at the bottom of the sea.....

Okay

Christianity Etc › Re: Nigeria’s Growing Atheist Community by A001: 12:31am On Nov 28, 2021

HellVictorinho3:
Specify!!!!

The brain and the soul have different definitions...

Same with psyche!

Ooops!

I don't really know anything

Neither do I understand anything

Damn it!

I was born yesterday!!!!

If you apply the wave-particle paradox to the brain, it can have a wave-aspect (the soul or psyche) that we can't see and flesh-aspect (particle) that we can see.

Understanding this inner self or inner being (also called ka) scientifically will help us know how thoughts originate in the brain, how dreams are made and can be stored, how memories can be digitized, and so on.

The wave-particle duality of matter has been demonstrated in various experiments, microscopically and macroscopically (though with a material containing a few thousands of atoms, not with a human being, at least yet).

The concept applies to matter generally.

Christianity Etc › Re: Nigeria’s Growing Atheist Community by A001: 12:22am On Nov 28, 2021

HellVictorinho3:
I don't understand anything..

I have not read anything..

No book makes sense to me....

Where do I start from?

I don't know. I've mentioned some here; if you're interested, you may check them.

But if you're not in the university yet, don't read the books. It's better to focus on gaining admission first.

Christianity Etc › Re: Nigeria’s Growing Atheist Community by A001: 12:15am On Nov 28, 2021

HellVictorinho3:
What do you mean by inner being

You are not the first to use that one..... but you might be using it for a different reason....

That's how some people changed the meaning of karma the other day....

You can see it as simply the brain, the psyche, or the soul.

Christianity Etc › Re: Nigeria’s Growing Atheist Community by A001: 12:14am On Nov 28, 2021

HellVictorinho3:
No misinterpretations!!!

That's EXACTLY what you stated.....

I'm repeating your statements BUT you keep acting like you're the only one that has heard of Physics before....

You know what?

Even my knowledge of Maths, Chemistry, Civic Education,Economics, Biology,etc.. is shallow...

In fact,
I am not sure I know anything at all!!!

Who knows whether I'm truly a male or female

I hope my English is right..

I stole the brain I'm using....

Lols. You don't understand these things because you've not read some books of philosophy and physics.

It's all about one's interest and age.

When you're older, some of them will be clearer.

There are some books that don't make sense at a certain age.

Christianity Etc › Re: Nigeria’s Growing Atheist Community by A001: 12:10am On Nov 28, 2021

HellVictorinho3:
It's not about the existence of waves/particles...

It's about changing the definition of a word to what you want in order to seem correct about something that the word never suggested....

Spirit means different things to different people, and to me, it means inner self or inner being. Nothing superstitious or supernatural.

Scientifically, it's defined in my previous comment.

Christianity Etc › Re: Nigeria’s Growing Atheist Community by A001: 12:07am On Nov 28, 2021

1Sharon:
Where does this article state that Berbers were initially black then became white?

This is an excerpt from the link about Berbers' origin in Africa: "Berber, self-name Amazigh, plural Imazighen, any of the descendants of the pre-Arab inhabitants of North Africa."

Pre-Arab people in that region were blacks not Caucasians (Arabs), as all humans originated from black ancestors in Africa.

This is not even so detailed. I can find books of their history later written by African authors, not Arabized writers/Muslims that claim the fictitious Adam from the Arab world is the first man on Earth.

Christianity Etc › Re: Nigeria’s Growing Atheist Community by A001: 11:59pm On Nov 27, 2021

HellVictorinho3:
You have started behaving like AOO1!

You guys have a different definition for XYZ....

We're two different individuals with different philosophies in life.

HellVictorinho3:
1Sharon might have become a theist who also believes in spirits or whatever .....

According to AOO1, you don't even exist... because what he sees is not what is real owing to his limits..

Your knowledge of EM waves in Physics is shallow. If not, you won't be misinterpreting the clear statements I made.

Christianity Etc › Re: Nigeria’s Growing Atheist Community by A001: 11:47pm On Nov 27, 2021

1Sharon:
Source?

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Berber

Christianity Etc › Re: Nigeria’s Growing Atheist Community by A001: 11:45pm On Nov 27, 2021

HellVictorinho3:
1Sharon...

Don't get me wrong...

Google doesn't define spirits as waves....

What AOO1 doesn't really exists....

Not even you 1Sharon.....

You don't really exist to him...
..

But that's just him...

Read about the wave-particle paradox on Google and apply it to a human. The concept is applicable to matter generally.

Christianity Etc › Re: Nigeria’s Growing Atheist Community by A001: 11:41pm On Nov 27, 2021

1Sharon:
How does stop Berbers from being Caucasian ?

Berbers aren't Caucasian in ancient times, but they're in modern times due to invasion and slave trades in some past centuries.

Berbers are indigenous North African people who were traditionally black, but are now Caucasian in contemporary times.

Christianity Etc › Re: Nigeria’s Growing Atheist Community by A001: 11:32pm On Nov 27, 2021

1Sharon:
Yes true, but we can measure them and it's effects. Christians say God exists but he's invisible. How do physicists want to measure a spirit?
They also make excuses and say because of sin, he's withdrawn from man so that's why he isn't influencing our reality.

Beware again that there are Christians that believe in evolution. They believe evolution is the source of all things but god just let it happen.

You actually sound like an atheist

Christianity and Islam just copied many concepts from African traditional religions and bastardized them like musicwriter says.

Spirit, as depicted in the Bible and Qur'an, is just superstitious nonsense.

To get a deeper understanding of reality, it's crucial for one to learn from the sources those so-called holy books plagiarized.

That's why books like Otem's, the Kyballion, and the Emerald tablets are crucial, at least for research scientists.

Spirit is just a kind of wave and is one of two ways something manifests to us in reality with the other form being particle (the concept of wave-particle duality of matter in Physics comes to mind here).

Whether matter appears to us as a spirit (wave) or as a particle (flesh), both are a single thing manifesting in a dualistic manner, and it's our (limited) perception or the interpretation of the brain that causes the confusion (illusion).

You can see spirit as a kind of light. Some scientists have been able to condense light to exist in solid form with the speed of the particles attenuated in a special medium.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid_light

If light is not existing in such a condensed state, then these particles will be moving at the speed of light and will appear invisible or non-existent to us.

Hence, people commonly say a spirit doesn't exist because scientists can't detect the wave yet and interact with it.

But our perception of reality is very limited and highly filtered.

The universe is mental as what we see as reality is just a picture our brain builds for us or an interpretation the brain gives us, not what really exists.

In the future, physicists will be able to detect and measure spirit/consciousness (wave).

For interstellar travels, superluminal (faster-than-light) travels, and teleportation to be achievable in the future, it's crucial for scientists to detect and trap spirit or consciousness, which is just a unique kind of wave.

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Christianity Etc › Re: Nigeria’s Growing Atheist Community by A001: 10:52pm On Nov 27, 2021

1Sharon:
No shit! Obviously Arabs originate from Asia, I know they ain't indigenous.

I've also seen a ton of paintings.of white and brown Egyptians now what?

You never answered any of my questions.

And berbers-the true indigenes of North Africa- are not black.

Blacks are the first people on this planet, including North Africa.

That's a fact, not a claim. Africa is the cradle of humankind.

Christianity Etc › Re: Nigeria’s Growing Atheist Community by A001: 10:51pm On Nov 27, 2021

1Sharon:
What evidence can they present for something theists claim is invisible ?

How do you want to prove something you can't see or measure?

Knowing the universe is irrevlant because theists claim God is everywhere.

Some things aren't visible to us but influence our reality.

If God exists as the source/origin of all things, I think astrophysicists and cosmologists will discover it in the future since those experts study the origin and evolution of the Universe.

If something exists, there must be evidence for its existence. If no evidence is offered, then there's no basis to accept it exists.

Christianity Etc › Re: Nigeria’s Growing Atheist Community by A001: 10:45pm On Nov 27, 2021

Pr0ton:
You making a possibility an assumption is what differentiates you from an atheist, because you, like an atheist, hold this true of humans not being able to prove some things yet or the talk of staying open minded. We both accept the possibility of a spiritual explanation. But you don't just accept and stop there. You literally let go of other possible explanations and hold on to God being the only chance/alternative. That is clearly seen in the definition of who an agnostic is. That is what I meant by making a possibility an assumption because if it were just a possibility you would be an atheist and not an agnostic. This is why I say you're confused.

How does saying God might or might not exist mean holding onto God as being the only alternative?

Agnosticism is just a position between the two extremes — atheism and theism.

It's very arrogant of a human that's extremely ignorant about his own planet to assert God doesn't exist as a matter of fact, when he's yet to explore 1% of the Universe, 10% of the world's oceans, and is completely ignorant of most of the things existing or happening even in his immediate environs.

Holding such a position makes you the same as a religionist.

But an agnostic considers that God or gods might exist, is open-minded, and looks to science to solve the riddle with time.

Atheists are dogmatic IMO, just like religious people, though it's still much better to be an atheist than a religionist.

But agnostics are open-minded and prefer to approach these things with a curious, inquisitive approach like a baby.

For an agnostic, it's scientific discoveries and data that determine the truth, not the parochial wishes of an atheist or the ill-informed, superstitious notions of a religionist.

Christianity Etc › Re: Nigeria’s Growing Atheist Community by A001: 10:26pm On Nov 27, 2021

1Sharon:
If the Egyptians were blacks and had all those innovations, why didn't sub-saharans reflect that in their climes? Why did they never even have the wheel?

Where did all the black Egyptians suddenly go to?

Post an excerpt from the book please.

Lols, you obviously know very little about the history of Egypt to be asking these questions.

Apparently, you've never taken the time to research the history of the country and the people.

Anyone with basic knowledge of Egypt's history knows the Arabs currently calling themselves Egyptians aren't the original ancient Egyptians. The Arabian presence in the country only began a few centuries ago.

Before the Greeks and Arabs invaded the country, the ancient Egyptians were blacks. The body of evidence in support of that assertion is great, ranging from the tons of paintings of their gods and goddesses, to the discovered mummies, arts, to fashion, and even genetic evidence.

To learn the truth of the matter, get good books of ancient African history written by black writers, not the fake, distorted histories (pure lies) the European and Arab conquerors taught to most Africans.

There are some of such books posted on Nairaland, including Otem's.

Even all the countries in North Africa were not originally Arabs (not only Egypt), but blacks (mainly Berbers or Berberians/Barbarians).

Christianity Etc › Re: Nigeria’s Growing Atheist Community by A001: 10:09pm On Nov 27, 2021

Pr0ton:
Let me it get it clear that atheists are open-minded too. What differentiates atheists from agnostics is that the former do not live on assumptions (at least in a sense) Yes, it is possible to eventually find that there is a "creator" to all the magnificence of the universe and everything that exists. The creator can be anything and can even be a "thing" that can be studied scientifically. It is also possible it can be of spiritual essence too. It can be anything we can think of or nothing in the realms of our comprehension and imagination.

My problem with agnosticism is why you choose to be insistent on one possibility out of the many - God. To me you're not being wholly scientific or even open minded. You're drifting towards the religious position like part of you want it to be true because it's something you can't completely move on from. And since you're bringing the spiritual possibility into this quest I would treat you like I would a spiritual person. And it is simply as follows:

A spiritual explanation comes from religion. Religion can't substantiate the claim. Religion through studies from history and science has been found to be delusional rather than factual. Therefore a spiritual explanation can't be true.

There is no evidence for God. But there is evidence that those who claim there is God through religion are wrong. This to me, as an atheist, is enough to say there is no God. Or at least till there can be evidence to prove there is one.

I don't understand you. Which assumptions do agnostics live by?

Do you see assumption as possibility or vice versa because that's the impression you gave with this comment?

Where are the assumptions in my post you quoted?

The agnostic doesn't say a god exists or doesn't exist. He/she simply asserts there's no evidence for God's existence or non-existence due to the limitations of our understanding of the Universe using science as a tool and owing to the limitations of our senses.

The agnostic is open-minded and seeks evidence for or against either of the two positions, not just one possibility because if he supports either of the two sides, then that's not agnosticism.

Based on our current level of scientific knowledge of the Universe, we may never be able to know as a matter of fact that God exists or doesn't exist at least while on Earth.

Christianity Etc › Re: Nigeria’s Growing Atheist Community by A001: 9:28pm On Nov 27, 2021*

Pr0ton:
Someone tells you there is God and can't provide the evidence to back it up and you also can't find any evidence that there is and even logic and science and research show that such proposed God do not exist, then the more rational conclusion should be such God does not exist.

To wait and find evidence yourself for something some else claim to you is madness and confusion.

That's the atheistic position which I don't subscribe to.

We know very little about the Universe to say it as a matter of fact that God exists or doesn't exist.

Given the facts that the Earth is just one of the trillions (or even unlimited number) of planets (worlds) in existence, that the Earth is about 4.6 billion years old when the Age of Scientific Enlightenment is less than 600 years (a millennium), and that information about most of the things existing in our environs is filtered by our senses (i.e. we don't see and may not be able to see what actually exists in reality), it's possible God exists.

Our sciences, for all its glory and breakthroughs, are still elementary in many ways and nascent in many key areas of life.

Thus, it's not reasonable to conclude a god or God doesn't exist. When one understands the limits of our senses and organs — especially the brain, eye, and ear — one realizes life is much deeper and complex than science paints it.

Reality is different from existence as something can be existing but isn't real to us as limited beings.

For these reasons, the agnostic position is the most reasonable IMO as it makes one open-minded about things.

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: Nigeria’s Growing Atheist Community by A001: 9:00pm On Nov 27, 2021

Pr0ton:
No.

That's why there are agnostics like me. When scientists present concrete evidence for God's existence, agnosticism will die a natural death.

Given the fact that we know very little about the Universe, one can't conclude that God exists or doesn't exist. Hence, I find the agnostic position convenient.

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: Nigeria’s Growing Atheist Community by A001: 8:52pm On Nov 27, 2021

Pr0ton:
Calm yourself. I didn't say any agnostic said that. It is my own view of how agnostics think.

By definition an agnostic person neither believes nor disbelieves the existence of God. They claim not to be an atheist (one who disbelieves in God) yet expresses doubt over God's existence. Please help me find the rationale in that. Because to a religious person, you're an unbeliever for even expressing doubt in God's existence. And to an unbeliever that you don't want to identify with, well, what would be more rational than thinking you're confused?

Okay. Do you have any scientific evidence for God's existence?

A yes or no would do.

Christianity Etc › Re: Nigeria’s Growing Atheist Community by A001: 8:45pm On Nov 27, 2021

Crystyano:
Don't worry

I'm tired of talking about these things

Okay

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