₦airaland Forum

Roland17:
Individual Honors

Del Piero:

UEFA Champions League Top Scorer 1997-1998

Serie A Top Scorer 2007-2008

2x Italian Footballer of the Year 1998, 2008


F. Totti:

European Golden Boot 2006-2007

Serie A Top Scorer 2006-2007

2x Serie A Footballer of the Year 2000, 2003

5x Italian Football of the Year 2000, 2001, 2003, 2004, 2007

Euro 2000 MOTM

Del Piero:

457 appearances; 198 goals for Juventus

91 appearances; 27 goals, 7 assists for Italia


F. Totti:

443 appearances; 192 goals for A.S. Roma

58 appearances; 9 goals, 23 assists for Italia

It is not even close when you dissect the numbers because Totti matched, doubled or tripled any record Del Piero has. So what are we even talking about here?

http://www.legaseriea.it/en

71 of those goals came from the penalty spot!!! That's over 36%

Del Piero's achievement in elite Europe also significantly dwarfs that of Totti so it's rather convenient that you leave that one out

A40:
Also bear in mind that Totti is Italy's primary set piece kicker and so his assists numbers will always be inflated

Roland17:
Here you go.

Del Piero played 5,625 minutes

F. Totti played 3,794 minutes.

Del Piero played a whopping 1.831 more minutes for the Azzurri than the Golden Boy yet the Golden Boy dwarfs him!!!! So what is your next excuse?

Did you miss that part?

And the fact that it was post injury Del Piero for majority of those international appearances. 66 of his 91 appearances came after that serious injury

Roland17:
A lot of if's and but's. Totti suffered several injuries during his career, he even played world cup games injured and still performed. El Phenomenon suffered an injury that could have ended his career but guess what? He went ahead to become a bigger demon ost injury, racking up numerous individual and team achievements. Abeg make una no dey use another person weakness hold pesin down.

It is not matter of ifs and buts. Prime Del Piero led Juve to a Champions League title and 3 CL Finals. Winning highest goalscorer in the competition to boot.

And no Ronaldo did not become a bigger demon post injury. In fact bar the 2002 World Cup what other major tournament do you remember Ronaldo dominating?

Roland17:
Assist Record for Italy

F. Totti

Appearances: 57
Assists: 23

A. Del Piero

Appearances: 92
Assists: 7

This is with Del Piero making 35 more appearances than Totti and according to you, playing more as a SS. The discrepance is a gulf as Totti dwarfs him in assists.

https://www.transfermarkt.us/francesco-totti/nationalmannschaft/spieler/5958
https://www.transfermarkt.us/alessandro-del-piero/nationalmannschaft/spieler/4289

Lool you can like to show us their starts and minutes played. You suppose to know say I no be newcomer for this game. It's not coincidence that Del Piero has the most goals off the subs bench in Azzuri history.

Also bear in mind that Totti is Italy's primary set piece kicker and so his assists numbers will always be inflated

Kimbeast:
Let's not forget that in that period Juventus was accused of using drugs. juventus were pumping their players full of PEDs in that period. PEDs that were mostly legal at the time(due to being new). No wonder del piero became a shadow of himself.
It almost certainly contributed to his injury and was likely the main reason why he went 3 years looking like a shade of himself afterwards.

We're not here for accusations that can't be proven. Plus all the other activities Juventus were accused of did not fall in Del Piero's prime so that argument DOA

Del Piero suffered a career threatening injury in November of 1998 that made him miss the rest of the season. Not forgetting he had personal issues with his ailing father. Throwing PED arguments is irresponsible as Del Piero still came back the next season to lead the league in assists.

And in 2002/2003 helped Juve to a CL Final as well

Roland17:
A Big Fish in a small pond that had Roma punching above its weight, winning the Scudetto with multiple Coppa Italia? A Big Fish in a small pond that kept Roma competitive in the Seria for decades? Who was AS Roma before the Golden boy showed up? Can the same be said about Juventus? I am not going to allow anyone argue and limit Totti's relevance based on Del Piero's injuries or inconsistencies with the Azzurri's because in sports competition availability is the most important skill.

Wenger also had Arsenal punching above their weight and competitive but when it mattered most they always flatter to deceive so that's really neither here nor there.

Roma were a solid team from the 80's to early 90's. I recall they made a European Cup Final at some point in that time period.

Juve being great had nothing to do with anything after all they hadn't won the league in 10 seasons till Del Piero started peaking. Their only success was in the second tier cup competitions. Del Piero made them relevant in Europe again and they were the best in Europe in that spell

Roland17:
Totti and Del Piero went to the world cup in 2006, who had a better showing? Despite going into the competition injured, Totti finished the competition with the highest assist, what did Del Piero offer the Azzurris? Del Piero was renowned for missing clear cut chances for Italy and that pitched him against most Italian coaches. Del Piero saved the day for Italy in Japan/ Korea but I am supposed to disregard a MOTM award for Totti even in a losing effort? Did Italy win the Korea/ Japan World cup in 2006? No, Brazil did, so why should Totti's achievement be disregarded?

Joint highest. 3 of his 4 assists came from corners and free kicks. Del Piero past his peak still provided an assist in the game vs Czech republic that sealed Italy's progress, he also scored the dagger goal that ended Germany's dreams. Not forgetting he converted his spot kick for Italy in the shootout where Totti didn't even get past the 60 minute mark

What I'm showing is that same way Del Piero had bad performances is the same way Totti had bad performances. And it was Del Piero that came off the bench to bail Italy out in Korea Japan.

Roland17:
The Golden Boy record as the 2nd highest scorer in the history of the Serie A still holds strong and this is despite rotating different positions on the pitch. In almost 20 years, Del Piero scored 208 goals in 513 appearances for the Bianchonerri's, Totti, on the other hand, scored 250 in 613 appearances for Roma. You have carefully compared both players using goals forgetting Del Piero played as a forward/ Striker/ Winger for the most part of his career while Totti was more so a deeper-lying player maker and seldom played as forward or striker. Can we talk about their assist numbers for the Azzuri, respective clubs and in total?

Lool Totti was a striker for a significant period of time in his time at Roma. He scored 21 more penalties and played almost 200 more matches.

If it's assists Del Piero has shown capacity to provide that. In the 2000 season when he was asked to playmake he did so and led the league in assists.

The question is when did Totti ever match the production of peak Del Piero? Totti was never the best player in the strongest team in Europe at any point in his career. Nobody asked Totti to not leave Roma to prove himself

chic2pimp:
How will a Centre Back lead in either goals or Assist? Btw you said and I quote "How are you in the Balon D'or Conversation if you are not the best or most influential on your team"?. Considering VVD is going to place higher than Alex ever placed, do you agree He is liverpool's best too?

It's debatable with VVD regardless. You can argue Salah, Mane, Allison are as important as VVD with coherent arguments to back it up

You cannot do that with Del Piero. You can't successfully prove that between 95-98 Del Piero was not Juve's best player

chic2pimp:
Reoccuring without ever threatening to win shows He was not going toe to toe with anybody. In 95, George had almost triple His votes whilst second placed Jurgen had pretty much double.

He won more trophies and scored almost as many goals as both of them did

He was going toe to toe because he was the only reoccurring name in that timeframe. There were also actual numbers on the pitch to back it up as well and not polling booth numbers

Kimbeast:
Totti was better than Del Piero - the latter was more of a goalscorer and a slightly better dribbler due to agility/change of pace, but Totti was the far better passer and was more instrumental to his side. In the early-mid 00's everything good about Roma went through Totti. For a primarily creative player his scoring record is outstanding, and goals are only one aspect of what Totti offers.

I disagree. Del Piero was much more than a goalscorer. Maybe you have forgotten Del Piero was Baggio's replacement at Juve.

It's easier to be more instrumental when you're a big fish in a small pond. Like saying Harry Kane is more influential for Tottenham or Riyad Mahrez more influential at Leicester. Put them in bigger teams and their influence will obviously wane.

Don't confuse evolution for lack of ability. At Juve each time he was asked to create he almost always led his teams in assists. Del Piero could do it all.

And frankly his peak was higher than anything Totti did at club or country level.

At Roma Totti was his team's primary penalty kicker. Plus he had lengthy spells were he was pretty much a striker. For the Azzuri I don't know what's impressive about 9 goals in 58 appearances

raumdeuter:
The guy who introduced me to European football A juve fan if you see him raving about DelPiero ahhh "Golden boy"

Delpiero made Zidane second fiddle at Juventus

Injuries robbed us off prime Del Piero. Had Del Piero been healthy that 98/99 season I don't see United beating them. They could well possibly have made 4 straight CL Finals

chic2pimp:
So we agree VVD is the best and most influential player in this current Liverpool team?

VVD leads Liverpool in goals and assists like Del Piero did? I didn't know

chic2pimp:
Kai kai Which kain Ronaldo? More like Klinsman. As the voting showed, He was nowhere near Shearer much Less O fenomeno.

Between 1995 and 1996 there was only one reoccurring name in the Balon D'or shortlist. Del Piero. And of all the candidates you mentioned only Del Piero had the goals and trophies to back it up

chic2pimp:
Eventhough Footy is not all about goals, Del Piero played a bit further upfront than Totti did.

I don't think there has ever been a tournament where Alex has outplayed Totti in an Azzuri jersey. It's either they were both rubbish or Totti played better. For instance, The Azzuris two best tourneys where both players participated was Euro 2000 and the World cup at 2006. Guess who the better player was during those 2 outings? Yup it was Totti!

When push came to shove and the coach was asked to pick between the two, it was always Alex warming the bench. That tells you a lot.

Lol Del Piero was a SS not an out and out 9. There is no excuse for Del Piero to be tripling his goals output

In Korea Japan Del Piero was the one that rescued Italy from disgrace when Totti was nowhere to be found.

Euro 2004 Totti was spitting on people up and down and his red card cost Italy a win against Denmark that ended up costing them

By 2006 Del Piero was waaaay past his prime anyway but still showed glimpses of what he could do. 60% of Totti's goal contribution came from set pieces not open play mind you

Roland17:
I am with chic2pimp on this one. The Golden Boy, II Capitano is not just any kind of Italian player, he is a religion with a cult following, almost an institution in Italy. Del Piero was never the best or most influential player on any of his team including the national team but that can not be said of The Golden Boy who played with lesser talents in contrast to Del Piero.

Ehn? Am I reading right! Why won't Totti be the best in a bare team like Roma? Normal big fish in small pond level

Del Piero from 95-98 was arguably Juventus's best player and a Balon D'or candidate. His competition was the likes of Ronaldo

How are you in Balon D'or conversation if your are not the best or most influential player on your team. I'm not understanding

chic2pimp:
For club most probably(His CL record is much better than Totti) however with regards to the Azzuri, No chance.

So how come Del Piero has scored more goals for the Azzuri than Totti?

Where was Totti in Korea Japan when Italy were headed for an embarrassing first round exit before Del P came to save the day.

I've never bought into the Totti hype. Even the Euro 2000 Finals you might want to bring that he won MOTM. Well they lost so that would be immaterial

Del Piero has scored more goals. 27 to 9 so on what grounds was Totti better for the Azzuri?

Ibime:
DelPiero was the better player but his peak was short-lived. He was finished by 1999. I think the cruciate injury compounded by his father's long term incurable illness finished him physically and mentally. DelPiero was the only player I saw go toe-to-toe with a peak Ronaldo. You were still in primary school then. Anything after 1998 is not representative of the real Del Piero.

Juve fans actually called him the Real Phenomenon. Prime Del Piero was no joke. He led Juve to 3 straight CL Finals

You can dispute the length of his peak but Totti never sniffed that 3 season peak.

Totti IMO was mad overrated

Me I will rank Del Piero much higher than Totti both for club and country. Del Piero of 96-98 was top 5 player on the planet. Totti has never been at that level

Roland17:
Na so you dey talk every season. Well, I am excited about Juju even when Brown was there but now that he is the primary receiver, I am looking forward to what he can do.

Pittsburgh Steelers have a WR factory. Anyone that thinks AB would be missed has not been paying attention.

Ward
Plaxico
Santonio
Wallace
Sanders
Martavis
JUJU Smith

We dey produce them like chinko factory

afrodoc2:
The coach talks a big game, looks the part, and of course has the ring to back it up but I am starting to doubt the man. He has wasted so juicy looking rosters over the last few seasons.

That might well be true but he has always kept us relevant. Aside Pete Carroll with the Seahawks and of course Bill Belichick there has not been a more consistent team. Big Ben and Mike Tomlin are two wins away from being the 3rd highest winning coach-QB combo of all-time. We've never had a losing season since he became coach. Not 1!

His issue is always being a player's coach, like the cool dad that doesn't know when to be the friend/guy and when to be the father. Thankfully the cancerous elements have been cut off and we would see a hungrier team this year

snrman:
he had only 2 good seasons. Then scoring 18goals was seen as very good until Messi started. Messi set the bar too high averaging 30goals in all competions since 2010

Messi started what? He had 3 good seasons! A period where he won the Golden Boot, led the league in assists and led United to a 3peat.

Where were you when Ororo scored 42 goals in 49 apps in 07/08 season and won Balon D'or. As a winger!

Even if you don't like Ronaldo at least be accurate.

Let me also reiterate. The league is not ready for Juju Smith and James Washington this season

Roland17:
I think there is enough blame to go around but I would first blame Jim Irsay and the Colts who failed to build around Luck after he was drafted especially with the O Line like they did when they had Manning. Luck suffered during his early seasons and was manhandled a lot and these are the results. We speak about Brady a lot but the truth is that every year, the Patriots invest in their O Line so that Brady does not have to tap dance.
A. Luck has some blame too because for some reason his body is not rehabbing completely and I believe there is something him, his trainers and the Colts are not telling us. His shoulder injury which has been the corner stone of this problem is a typical example because someone is lying to us about the rehab.
All in all, I am happy he is calling it goodnight because he knows his body better than anyone and I believe the shoulder is worse than we are told and Luck knows that. He is definitely a talented QB and I will miss watching him. The Colts are used to playing without him but this gives their future clarity about that position.

It's really unfortunate. Ironically a guy like Big Ben who has been sacked 3 times more is still going strong into his 16th season. Same with Brady and Brees who surprisingly get hit more times than we think. Even a much smaller Russell Wilson has been sacked almost double

I guess we're all built different but mere looking at Andrew Luck's physique you would think he would be built to take that kind of punishment

Even on First Take the other day they were debating about it that perhaps Luck's injuries are more serious than they were letting on and now it turns out they were right. I also like where Stephen A came from, while the boos were not in good taste I feel the Colts fans had a right to express their frustration at Luck retiring with 1 week to begin a new season. I would be pissed if Big Ben did that for example

steady986:
My piece on D'tigers journey to China so far, and what is to come.

https://candidbasketball.home.blog/2019/08/26/dtigers-road-to-the-fiba-world-cup/

Not bad. I think we have a fighting chance in that group. Argentina is the only standout as the others are beatable, though Russia will always give us problem but I would be more scared if the likes of Serbia, Slovenia or Lithuania were in the group.

This team I think also seem to have the ability to play up to the quality of their opposition

Khanben:
Colts will suck it up and lose for Lawrence, since that is the prototype they like for the position. I do think with that Online Tua's accuracy might solve that problem a year earlier but betting on Irsay waiting for Lawrence

The team is too loaded to lose for Lawrence. Their squad is too deep to lose enough games to get to that point. Jacoby Brisett might as well take his chances to be a decent starting QB. I'm wondering too if they can take a flier on Case Keenum. He did take the Vikings to an NFC title game

I've always found the idea of tanking a bit bizarre in the NFL. Because while one player can influence the outcome of a game to an extent their impact is nowhere comparable to basketball

Igwe Tupac

Kimbeast:
Van dijk last man technique to never actually tackle anyone and let them panic and fucccck up is very good.
He's like the anti-David Luiz.

Lool what of when he was directing traffic and dancing Soapy as usual until Matip quickly rushed and delivered the tackle of the season so far.

Though Aubameyang was dancing Soapy as well because I don't see how he doesn't score there

Three clowns

Khanben:
The colts really should have gotten an OLine b4 Luck's body broke down.
Funny thing is now they will have one of the best Olines in the league but no QB worth the name

Very weird flex. Even their defense was looking good for this year.

They now have a lot of weapons even in the skill positions with TY Hilton, Jack Doyle and Marlon Mack. I bet someone like Nick Foles would be wishing he didn't sign with the Jaguars

Roland17:
Oh my!!! Andrew Luck just informed the Colts he is retiring. The man could not stay healthy and I believe this is the best for his career.

This is really unfortunate. He was putting up Canton numbers too.

I think it was more the mental process of rehabbing from injuries and not the physical aspect. Not everyone can deal with that process over and over. That draft with him and RG3 where it looked like they would dominate for a decade and it's Russell Wilson that history would remember as the winner of that draft class. How ironic

somehow:
Blablablabla I passed my message. I don't care how it got to you. Make una stop man worshiping in BB and face the sport in general.

Chale fvck you and your message. Who died and appointed you Basketball ambassador? Are you a descendant of Dr James Naismith or how does one even begin to dissect your fvckery.

Thunder from Arigidi will fire you next time you tell me what and what not to do on this forum.

benji93:
I don't doubt Giannis did deserve it as well, as i wrote earlier, i am fine with either way. But running around peddling the opinion that Harden cannot complain about not getting the MVP(implied) is quite ridiculous. I mean i could put forth the argument that if harden exerted more effort on the defensive end, he could become an elite two-way player. We have no way of testing this theory, do we?

Anybody can complain about not winning the award. Even Bronsexuals will tell you LeNomad deserved the MVP award last year. Don't take Max's shock value takes verbatim.

There is no effort Harden can apply that would put him in elite status as a defender at this stage of his career

KingAzubuike:
Another loss today is imminent.

I was telling someone favoritism will be lampards undoing at this club he was arguing. He likes Mason mount and Tammy Abraham die which is taking over his thinking faculty as a manager.


No kante today and he's not injured weytin happen. We don buy market with lampard

Lampard.

benji93:
When she said i voted Harden in the "postseason awards" what the hell was Max thinking- She did ask some relevant questions though. Meanwhile is the MVP award based on someone's potential(roof) or what you actually did? I don't understand why the hell Max keeps suggesting that other players can do what he did if they asked to do as it. If a player can be spectacular when asked to be, then they definitely deserve the MVP. In my opinion they were both at the same level last season if we were to be objective performance-wise, i am fine with either way. It depends on which statistics you consider more important circumstantially. But that narrative of down-playing the brilliance of someone cos you think somebody else can ber as brilliant when they are called to be is dumb. It shouldn't be a matter of can, rather it should be what you did.

I have no qualms with people who felt Harden deserved MVP.

However Giannis was a two way force that led his team to the best record in the league. The game vs the Sixers where Giannis blocked Embiid 4 times highlights his MVP caliber credentials in a nutshell.

airmark:
Even Raumdeuter would be shocked at this your injury excuse. Very strange to our eyes, you just want to even things because of Belotti. Sorry it can't fly.

What is your fixation with Raumdeuter? You can't make even two consecutive posts without mentioning Raumdeuter. Weird