₦airaland Forum

Asiwaju9ja: .

Jesus's record you can verify, Adams' record is can be termed a myth. Just like yoruba mythology and ev en the Greek. Use another example.

you don't say...

As a quick add-on, Moses showed a miracle to the magicians of pharoah by causing the staff to turn to a snake and then turn back to a staff, in essence he created life from a dead thing and reversed the process, I don't see how Jesus creating a live bird from clay is any more unique than the incident of the snake with Moses, both scenarios just validate the claims of these people with whom God chose to perform the miracle which was "hear o isreal, the lord OUR God is one lord..."
This is a mediocre attempt at shedding some light on the no 4 of my previous post

Don't know about that, but We would be pretty much happy in this our section of nairaland if you guys stop pestering us... apply that to all the muslim dominated lands

Maclatunji asalam alaykum warahmahtullahi wabarakatuh, jazakallahu khayran, you might wanna cool down a little for the dude though, you strike me to be a bit on the harsh side, and really the op hasn't behaved as badly as most bashers do, he may be genuinely ignorant of what he is saying, and probably stumbled across the post from an anti-islamic website
@op I would say that the original post you put up there really is true, but you are looking at the info with tainted eyes. An advice to you is that you humble yourself if you really want to learn. Rather than present your "facts" about Jesus that you already "know", I would have expected that you asked the muslims here to show you with proof from the quran why we believe what we believe. Then I am sure Maclatunji and co would see you to be a sincere person in search of truth and shed some light on concepts such as:
1) why Jesus can't intercede for people on judgement day
2) why muslims don't believe God was incapable of forgiving without meting out the capital punishment on a "sinless" person
3) why God/ a part of God/ a form of God/ a relative of God could not be killed
4) why even though Jesus healed the sick and gave life by the PERMISSION of God we don't latch on to the wagon of christians saying Jesus is God
5) How even though Jesus was born without a father, we don't make him into more than what he claimed to be, that is "son of man"
6) also it so appears that the post you put up didn't cover everything about Jesus in the quran, it might benefit you somewhat to kindly ask if we muslims could show some of what you missed out in your post, afterall, Jesus was mentioned by name 25 times In the quran

*concerning no5, that's a classic case of being desensitised to a miracle of God. EVERY single person that is born is a miracle, but you are used to it already, hence when you hear about Jesus's case you are like that's too much for a human being to do. You make it sound like Jesus performed that miracle, but if you look with the right mind you would realise that God-who made Adam from clay(abi mud) and made Eve from the rib (I am not so sure) of Adam and has been making every man since then from the mixture of you know what- would have no problem creating a baby and placing that child in a ready womb. Every one of these kinds of creation are worthy of being called miracles. And none of the creation is worthy of being raised to the level of the creator

May God forgive me for any error in my post, this was just my opinion on the matter, and you are not obliged to follow it

Sorry, my bad, I thought you were serious when you said let's analyse. Okay then, I sha hope someone somewhere salvaged some good from the crazy talk I posted.

ycmdng: Mr Op let's analyze it:
1, Jesus is the son of God
2. He's the heir of God
2. He called HIMSELF the prince of peace
So I'll not be mistaking to call him KING and Nobody like HIMto share the name LORD & GOD. Nigerian ambassador to any country is Nigerian President in that country. I'll only advice you to stop equating the life and personality of Jesus to mohammed, Jesus is Son but mohammed -. I rest my case.

1) you say Jesus is the son of God, okay then you agree with the op that Jesus is not God. Since you already agree with Jesus saying (not quoting exactly) : the Lord our God is one Lord...*end of quote mentioned here* that should translate to Jesus isn't God or Lord
2) you said he is heir to God, okay, according to you then he inherited/would inherit the characteristics of God. What are the qualities of an inheritor though? He has to have the qualities of his successor, the successor haas to step aside (usually maybe by dieing or becoming less suitable for the job) for the inheritor to inherit, and maybe some more that I can't remember. Of course we both don't believe that God can ever die or be inadequate, and dominion is forever His, right? So maybe you need to clarify what exactly Jesus inherited from God so that we can better understand each other
2) *i think you meant 3) prince of peace...no bigi, doesn't translate to Lord or God, the devil is called prince of the world by some christians, I am not sure as to whether that's supported by the bible, but that didn't make them call the devil God or Lord. on second thought, there are some people who do call the devil lord and God, so I rephrase That to say that the devil being the prince of the world doesn't translate to him being the Lord or God
The Nigerian ambassador in any other country is the president? I don't know much about politics, but I know that the Nigerian president only has dominion in Nigeria, which is very unlike God, God is believed to rule supreme over all His creation and He has no one like unto Him...so I should believe that when he sends ambassadors, He retains His authority, God knows best

I thought according to the bible, Israel is God's first born son

What happened to God being the same yesterday, today, and forever more...
What do you mean by jewish God and christian God?
*dont mind me, I forgot the thread topic, carry on*

I guess America is in for it then

It never gets old, keep busying yourselves ranting about highlighted portions of the translated quran...we ain't gonna change it, we don't roll like that. Knowledge and understanding is easily available for those who really seek it.
On a sidenote @injesusname, this is the 4th thread I have seen you post about the wild man, you really are gonna milk out all you can from that post right? I hope you are having fun sha

Look what you made me do, I said I don't love to debate online, does that mean I don't? I wasn't debating with "injesusname" anyway,abi did that look like a debate? I just mentioned an observation and an expectation.
So please carry on ranting

Immensely slowed down their rate of moral decadence for starters

macof: Pls why does seun allow mad men on nairaland??

Truth be told this sounds just like the response the pharisees would have given to Jesus when he preached to them...just saying. not saying I agree with mr president though. mr president (it feels funny typing that)

lovaleenny: Op whatever floats ur boat...christains to deir own...muslims to their own...atheists to their own and so on...problems only arise if ppl don't accept their differences. Nigerians can like to shove their beliefs down on ppls throats
Have got frnds who r atheists,christains,muslims and we get along very well. For those claiming RELIGION is d issue...hate to break it to you but if GOD doesn't exist ppl will still wage war on each other. ..they'll find something little dt shouldn't be blown out of proportion as a reason or excuse to fight,kill and commit all sorts of atrocities. The day people start to learn how to accommodate each other and find a common ground that's the day the world might know peace.
Am proud to be a muslim and I stand by my decision to continue to be one...I don't hate on ppl of different beliefs and I can bet my life on it that all dose psychos out dere claiming dey r killing for Allah aren't muslims and neither do they practice islam...so like I said "OP" whatever floats ur boat but don't try to capsize another's!

Hate to say this, but belief you me, there are some crazy muslims out there who really are the real deal killing in the name of God and all that. Of course whaat they are doing is wrong and not endorsed by anyone but themselves, but these Christians here won't hear that, so that's that about that. I saw a statistical analysis showing that muslims account for a whole 6% of terrorism worldwide, and I was like REALLY?! Muslims account for 100% of it on the news, why all the emphasis?

Oh!!! I see now, you just go round pasting this load of SENSE in different threads, talk about spreading the gospel. Trying to spur some hate response from muslims.
I trust the op should recognise that you are up to no good and ultimately derailing the thread. Nice ranting though

Yeah, like we haven't heard that one before... by the way what's with the whole Ismael thingi being wild? Isn't it a bit off to just condemn a whole people because they descend from the offspring of a second wife? A lot of good came from this "wild men". a lot of modern science took its roots from muslim scholars back in the day, of course you probably would argue that too...There are even Arab Christians, so are they wild christians?
Maybe you would rather we turn the other cheek when we are slapped, go and see through history what was the fate of the REAL christians, they were boiled, barbecued, skinned alive, fed to dogs, fed to pigs, dragged for days till their bones became exposed, sawed in half, etc so much so that virtually all of their teachings were lost. The prosecutions didn't stop until the so called religious heads started sulking up to the pagans so much so that Jesus now shares a birthday with their then king and their idol.
So keep ranting, it's interesting in a way...to see someone define himself as christlike and then submit a post with so MUCH sense

For those who can reflect http://www.muslimhope.com/Audio/ShabirAllyVsStudents_Birmingham2000.mp3

sure...how did wikipedia enter the mix naw well that would be that about that from my end, like I said, I am not a fan of debates online...bye

At this juncture you have established that you are fixated on what you belief to be true. It's of no use trying to answer any other question. Also with your talk about Allah being one of the 360 something idols in the kaaba, it is almost certain where you get your "info" from.
You may carry on claiming that muslims don't have an answer to your questions, but I am sure that any person without bias would see who here is closer to truth.
Another advice, hate websites are for haters, get info from real scholars, there are plenty online.
By the way, you say the bible is not corrupted, and that it being corrupted means God is weak? Well, the bible, God never promised to preserve, but the quran though, God promised to preserve, proof for this is in the quran itself. You talking about prophesies, well we still got one quran in one language, memorised in part and in whole by muslims worldwide. Even the incidents surrounding the time of revelation of most of the ayat (what you may call verses) are preserved. That looks like the blessings of God if you ask me.
Once again you are trying to pin the flops of Christianity on islam, and what's more you refuse to even accept them. Do you mean to say that Jesus went round preaching that Lot drank alcohol and approached his daughters for....you got some stuffs in the current day bible that are only matched by the kamasutra and you go and listen to someone tell you that the whole thing is inspired by God. Maybe when they finish editing 'eer sorry I meant revising the bible to allow for gay marriages you would sit up and be like what da....
Anyhow on a serious note, what's the purpose of this thread? Are you on a quest to find another version of the bible? As in someone already pointed out that there are different bibles in existence, chances are you only adhere to the one you were born into asin your family religion and sect. Do you even know what others say? Do you expect some muslims to be like "Hmmm! That must be true?! Since there is no more any authentic gospel like the quran claims there WAS the quran lied and hence I wanna be a christian (of some sort)". Are you trying to rub in our faces how little backing you guys have for your scripture? Are you trying to prove that the bible is not corrupt? Or are you just trying to win an argument

Truth be told, I am not learned enough in that field to answer those questions in the way you would like me to. The Arabs were not the custodians of the scripture of the Jews, if they did a bad job of recording and preserving their scriptures, it's not our headache. You place so much emphasis on the physical entity asking about who wrote the book and where is the book.
Who "wrote" the book is inconsequential, all that matters is on whose authority was it written, proof for this? The canonical gospels , these are documents whose only means of identifying the authors is a single name, we don't even know if it's their first name or last names used, but you accept them to be divine. Even a driver's license wouldn't be taken seriously if there was only one name on it...that's just a tangent.
Anyhow, so who exactly wrote the gospels, doesn't matter to you, was the injil in a written form as in a book? Not sure, who wrote the injil? I am not so sure, was the injil written in the time of Jesus? Not so sure. Where is the injil? Not sure, BUT (and a very big BUT) one thing is sure, the injil is not any of the present versions of the bible...while the bible may contain parts of the injil.
Maybe if muslims needed the injil we would have made some effort to dig deeper, but we got all we need in the quran and the traditions of the prophet

Alright, first off the quran does not authenticate the "bible", it vouches for the "injil" which translates in English to "good news", sound familiar? Of course it does, the "gospel" translates to the exact same thing. Coincidence?
Now a good fellow showed you evidence from the "bible" showing that Jesus already preached the "gospel"/goodnews/"injil" while he was on earth, alright pause here and understand what this means. Before crucifixion (alleged) , before ascension, before blocking Saul AKA Paul on his way to do "some you know what" to "you know who", the injil/gospel was with Jesus
Now allegedly you are more knowledgeable than the pope, so you might already know that historians have verified that it is certain that the canonical "gospels" were not written by the disciples...the only author I have seen that is verified is Paul who wasn't a disciple of Jesus, but yet managed fine to write the bulk of the books of the "bible" in the new testament...pause again see the difference between the "gospel" and the "bible"? Jesus didn't go around preaching disregard of the commandments, or faith without action, etc on the contrary he taught the exact opposite
classic examples, Jesus according to you was God on earth, one of his purposes was to show us how to live according to the will of God. Jesus was circumcised, but Paul said it wasn't necessary. When asked how to attain salvation, Jesus said stuffs about works of righteousness and the like, but Paul said salvation lies in the believing in the cross...Jesus refused to be called "good" but then Paul called him son of God and now you call him God.
I could have attempted to shed some light on the other questions raised, but I would see how you respond to this attempt of mine so as to know whether it's even worth my time
To quickly add to this, you asked "what was Allah doing when people were changing his words?". We cannot begin to phantom the wisdom of God, such trains of thought never have any good in them, trying to decipher why God let some things be, in the same vein one could ask why did God let Adam and Eve eat from the fruit, or why is the devil still alive Why can't I ever find free wifi connection rather the reality is let God do His thing and let's work with what we got. If you wanna really know what God was doing when people were changing His words, check out revelations...somewhere around the ending where God says...wait lemme go get a bible sef to quote it.*esword loading* yup got it rev 22 18-19 "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, if any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book; And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book" #end of quote...
Nice twist, if in a book of prophecy, punishment is written for the alteration of the book, is it too far stretched to imagine that it was "foreseen" that the "book" would be altered? And if it were altered is it too much to understand that you don't only live once, and judgement day is more than enough for Allah to deal with the alterators...? I rest my case

Please refrain from the hurtful language @vexdacool, You are muslim. Eyeopener, let's be clear on one thing. There is only one creator, everything else is a "creation", if one decides to take a creation as "God", that's his loss....unfortunately it seems a lot of people are "at loss". some take money as their god, others their own intellect, others take pleasure as god.
So let's see about some of the qualities of the concept of "God" agreed upon by Judaism, Christianity and islam (judaism isn't in contention here since we most likely have no Jews here)
God is all powerful, all knowing, was not created, is in no need nourishment, does not change, has no partners, has not been seen by any man.
There may be more that do not come to mind at the moment but I guess this would suffice for now. So work your way through the aforementioned characteristics, do you really think we are worshipping the same God?
In my opinion, NO. And it's not because there is a God of isreal and then a God of Arabs, but rather because at some point the creator gave these two nations knowledge about Hiim, and somewhere down the line one of the two lost sight of the characteristics of God and the limits regarding the issue of who God is.
If you are looking for a sparring partner that would be ready on the set go to reply arguments, pardon me, I really don't fancy writing epistles daily, I trust other muslims who are more knowledgeable than I would put this my attempt to shame by further explaining to you.
My advice to you though is that you pray sincerely without using names like God or Allah or Jesus, but rather use the attributes you know of, like "the one who created me" or "the one who answers the prayer" or "the one who deserves all my worship", request in the prayer that that "one" guides you to the truth and opens your heart to accept it, and grants you the strength to practise it after you recognise it....while you are at it you might as well pray for wealth in this world, good progeny and spouse, good health, and ultimately paradise as your abode #just saying

It seems your bible scholars beat us to the job of answering the questions. it so appears that according to the scholars the authorship of the canonical gospels is unknown, and that Mark,Luke,Matthew,and John were pen names...anyhow, just chill abit, once again the answer would be given, and let's hope you are genuinely seeking the truth and not just seeking some argument. But before then going by your style of thinking, what need was the new testament if the old testament was divinely revealed to Moses them them? Seeing as Jesus himself confirmed the old testament

Wa Alaykum Salam Warahmahtullahi Wabarakatuh

Then I sincerely apologise for all the faults of mine in my posts, may Allah forgive me, I sincerely just thought to advise you, I do hope you were able to salvage at least some good from my post, and look past my errors. It's reassuring to see you replied my salam, so we are most likely on the same page. May we be reunited in jannah with the prophet and the sahaba

First off it seems a lot of people here are of the notion that terrorism is only terrorism when a religious motive is involved. That's not true. There aare a lot of acts that go on in the world that could fall under that word, but it seems that the media saves it exclusively for muslims. If a muslim kid goes to school with a gun and kills a bunch of students and teachers and shoots himself, he is a jihadist, but if the same scenario occurs to a non muslim, he was mentally unbalanced or had issues... secondly, I don't think most of you here that are claiming that muslims are intolerable really believe like you claim to believe that muslims are as you propose. Believe you me, if Islam was a intolerable religion, there are enough practising muslims to cause war all over the world. It's just the minute fragment of the muslims who have whatever reasons to be pissed that are causing all these wahala in conjunction with those enemies of Islam and/or humanity who just wanna spoil the image of Islam or sell their war products and stuffs. don't fall prey to any of the numerous agendas around by inciting more hatred. May God forgive me for whatever wrong I said and make whaat I wrote better understood by you

Sometimes I wonder how a person as knowledgeable as you Al baqir can let yourself keep stumbling back into this potential mess of speaking ill of the companions of the prophet. These are people whom Allah might have forgiven for whatever errors they made. I see no logical reason to insinuate that Abubakr was a liar, even if you have such "evidences", he might have erred. It's interesting to note that when we muslims bicker about such harmful topics, our brothers of other faith that usually disturb this segment of nairaland leave us alone, almost as if saying their trouble isn't needed here siince we are already doing a good job at insulting ourselves. I would like to believe I am sunni, but it doesn't mean I can't learn from the immerse knowledge Shia muslims like you and Lagos Shia seem to possess, but for the sake of the day when you would stand to account, refrain from bad mouthing the sahaba,asalam alaykum warahmahtullahi wabarakatuh

What is sinful remains sinful even if the whole world is engaged in it, and what is right remains right and correct even if no one is practising it.
I believe that something to add to the op is that one has to be careful and intelligent when declining the invites so as not to brew hatred or unnecessary ill feelings.
Allah knows best, asalam alaykum warahmahtullahi wabarakatuh

babylolaroy: so you brought this in from the first thread.
you see, men are meant to be the ones asking out while a woman chooses to say yes or no, as the case may be. But where a woman is the one asking a man, being that as it is dah we have a fragile nature, she wont like to be rejected. its worse dan a man getting rejected

I don't know where this rule of men being the ones to propose came from but I know it isn't islam, and whether it is a guy or a lady that is rejected, it would be a BIG BLOW to the person, as long as he/she was sincere in intentions. The only time it might not hurt a guy is if he wasn't hoping for it to lead to marriage and he just wanted to play with the lady.
So please don't assume that guys have this supernatural shield against rejection......we don't

I have plenty, but I don't know the artistes names mostly and most of them have been mentioned already
Talib al habib: hilya to the prophet, the ascension, articles of iman, inna lillahi......infact all his songs I could get my hands on
Zain bhika: my mum is amazing and mountains of Mekkah