₦airaland Forum

On a sidenote concerning whom to give salam, I personally believe it isn't restricted to muslims....the incident that caused the prophet to reply with only alaykum was between him and hostile people....and like the other dude quoted Allah doesn't hinder us from being nice to people of other faiths that are not hostile to us.
Further more we are implored to argue in the best of manners, what better way is there to start a dialogue than the best of greetings?
Finally if I recall correctly the quran Allah says (am not quoting) o you who believe spread salam (peace).....popular interpretation of that salam says that it includes speading the greeting of peace as well as actuall peace.....to whom? I would leave u to determine the limits of your peace spreading.
Allah knows best

It might be a long shot, but just incase a sincere christian stumbles across this let me lay out what the classic christian doctrine is, and leave it to you to ponder:
Adam and his wife "sinned" before having any child, so this "original sin" was "inherited" by all his offspring to come till the last day.
As a result of the sin, death became incumbent upon every soul.
God couldn't take it upon Himself to forgive man, so He came down to earth in form of a human for the sole purpose of baiting some ignorant people into killing Him so that He could then use that as an excuse to forgive whoever it was that believes that He(ie God in human form) died.
Of course there may be varying versions amongst you christians, but I tried to generalise as much as possible. Now I am sure many good people should be able to pick out at least 10 reasons why this story can't be true but I won't do so myself yet
Now to go to the summary of what I know islam's point of view to be regarding Jesus:
His name was Isa, and he was a prophet as well as a messenger of God, he was born of a virgin Maryam (Mary), he was a cousin to another prophet Yahya (John), his and Yahya's lineage traced back to Prophet Ibrahim (Abraham)
He was sent to the people of isreal with clear signs and messages from his Lord, hence he was the way and the truth to the Lord at his time, he told them the good news of paradise for those who believed and did righteous deeds and warned of severe punishments waiting for the disbelievers and wrong doers.
He lived on earth till a certain age (not sure what) and was lifted up in body and spirit to the heavens (I think d lowest), and would come back to earth as one of the signs of the last day and would fight dajjal (the antichrist) and would learn the reli of islam and would rule in accordance to islam till he dies
On the day of ressurection, his Lord the creator would ask him if he instructed people to worship him (Jesus) and his mother (Mary) as Gods beside the one God, and he (jesus) would basically fall your (christians) hands denying this claim.
Sorry for the long read, didn't intend it to be soooo long. May God forgive me my shortcomings, and grant us sincere hearts that can recognise truth and then make efforts to follow it. May peace be upon you

Well I think no matter what the prophet's qualities were people like u guys wud complain, u might as well have asked y Allah had to make him an orphan. What Allah does is His business, we can only with our limited intellect try to see reason in it

For the qUestion about the wisdom behind Sending an unlettered prophet with the message........something I have heard some scholarS say that if he had been able to read pple up till this day wud be doubting his credibilty, thinking he was reading the things he said from a past scripture. Allah knows best

Some oF the posts here are causing me to read surah NAs...........with emphasis on the last Ayat......

---

. It is obvious d devil is still very much active

Cloudstar......u are wrong on so many levels that I do not even know where to begin to correct. I would advice that u go and research into the history of the bible and who wrote the books and how the bible was kept for the first few centuries before the protestants came about....

Asalam alaykum warahmahtullahi wabarakatuh , just curious , it is obvious that some muslims don't support the idea of fasting on the 10th, and the reason given is because that date also marks the unjust killing of imam Hussein, so I ask, what would u rather have us do on that day?
*Al-baqir this is directed at u, but anyone that has sometin benficial to say can reply

The disbisbelievers are guardians and protectors over one another, if u (believers) are not going to do the same, there wud be great fitnah- that's somewhere in d quran, forgive me for not being able to provide references.
My points are:
1) Whether or not the fatwa is valid to the ummah depends on the "scholars", on our own level we can only "decide" which fatwa to apply. Hence it is futile to Treat pple on a different school of thought as kufar
2) Bad manners/conducts destroy good deeds. It doesn't matter ow much good and sound knowledge a person has, but if u don't "present" it well with the right impression it won't be effective.
I av more to say, but I am too lazy to write any more........masalam

And now I am worried for the state of the ummah if such an issue could cause the exchange of words here. It was very saddening to go through this thread. I am glad I am already muslim, because if I had seen these kind of bitter confrontations before I became muslim, I wud av figured that islam might as well be christianity.
"......Call to the way of your Rabb with wisdom...." Even if one party of u was initially right, the way u presented the point and argued would av stripped ur efforts of barakah, if the motive of a person is to enlighten other muslims and not simply to "win" the argument I see no reason for the mediocal exchanges
Even during the time of the Prophet, pple had differences of opinion, but it didn't result in them labeling the others kufar. "......I have not been sent to check the hearts of man.......". A muslim shud always go out his way to assume the best of his brother.
U don't have to accept everything pple say, but u must learn to ALWAYS depict a muslim character.
Anyhow, on the topic, it seems the person who issued the fatwa is a highly knowledgeable person, but I would rather stick with the provisions made by the quran for pple unable to bear the stress of fasting, and may Allah grant us the strength to observe all tenets of the faith for as long as we live
Asalam alaykum warahmahtullahi wabarakatuh , may Allah make my post better understood and forgive me my shortcomings

Try as I may to salvage some good from any of your posts, it always seems they are just full of worthless lies....I am posting this reply just to satisfy my curiosity concerning 4 things
1) How come ur topics appear on the front page, is there a trick to it?
2) So far so good, all your topics have similar themes which seem very very very weak, do u actually expect muslims to convert upon hearing the alleged escapades in hell? Or are u just trying to stir some trouble?
3) How come all these pple "go to hell" and they don't come back traumatised? I av heard of trained soldiers who totally lose their minds when they experience war, but in all your cases the pple that go to hell come back and narrate the story to others like it was a horror film they watched
4) How come according to all the stories pple are already in hell, don't they believe the God when He says there wud be a judgement day? Or do they think everyone has their own personal judgement days once they pass on?
Please these are honest questions, if u may, reply with appropriate answers any of them, if not its all good, may God the Almighty creator and lord of all guide us to truth

Don't mean to troll, is it not possible that same 10th of muharam cud be the day that the grandson of the prophet was matyred as u claim, and also the day that Adam was created and Yunnus wa saved from the big fish and the ark of Nuh landed etc.
I think without solid intel on the history of that day, one cannot say with authority what did or did not happen. I see no point in taking a risk to say so and so didn't happen on that day just because one does not trust d narration, because it is possible that even if the narrators intended a lie, Allah may have done all those things on that one day.
Allah knows best, asalam alaykum. *on a sidenote I see u and lagosshia are really going all out to sensitize muslims about the parts of islamic history that may not be easaily palatable. I wud implore u too to be more open minded, so that u may also learn from others

Jazakillahu khayran

In my opinion, the whole episode of the prophet trying to write a will on his death bed and being stopped by Umar seems questionable to say the least, for the following reasons:
1) The prophet himself had already asked his followers during the hajj if he "delivered the message", this signifies he had finsihed his obligations as d final prophet, if there was still such an important message like his willi do not think he wud av asked that question
2) Accepting that the prophet had a message that he wanted to deliver but was stopped from doing so means accepting that d prophet didn't finish his duty as a prophet
3) If f the prophet knew the weight of such a will to d ummah, I find it hard to believe he wud forskae delivering the will just because some sahaba stopped him, that goes against the character of the prophet as he was depicted to always be worried of the ummah
So whether he delievered his will or not, there are controversies surrounding this very narration about the writing of the will, and if I were to follow the line of thought of not accepting any hadith that is not in line with d quran....
Allah knows best

Thanks for the posts, so far what I av concluded:
1) The quran is complete and authenthic regardless of whatever whispers of tamperings may be flying around
2) I shud not treat any hadith like I treat the quran, ie I wud av to be more careful when accepting hadith regardless of if it is classified sahih, and if it contradicts the quran I wud just boycott it
3) To carry out no2 I need a very sound knowledge of the quran
4) I have to learn all there is to know about the family of the prophet *which in my opinion includes all the wives,fatimah, Ali an his progeny
5) Concerning the suspicion of the conducts of some of the sahaba after the prophet, I refuse to entertain any doubt about them, their case is with Allah. Allah is Al-adl and Al-Aleem
If there is anything anyone feels I am getting wrong, please suggest, jazakumullah khayran wasalam alaykum

See? We are making progress...in my opinion. But u need to dumb it down alittle bit, what do u mean by follow ahl albayt? And y name urself a whole different sect just cuz u rever the family of the prophet? Do the "sunni" claim not to love the "ahl albayt"?

So then, what do u suggest is the way forward? That we discard the hadith totally and refer only to the quran? And if u say to discard the hadith only partially, how do we know which ones are "ok" and which shud be disregarded, or are u suggestg we boycott only the hadith narrated by a certain set of pple.
U can't just state a problem without giving viable solutions, if u know what I mean. Just so u know I still stand my ground to forstall these controversies till I am through with matters that no musilm has quams with...May Allah pardon our shortcomings, and may He put barakah in ur words as u reply @whoever replies with sincererity

Hmmmm...seems like a lot of squabbling has been goin on here, me I still av 30 juz to memorise and understand before delving into troubled waters so pls resolve ds before my ship comes. My quota in this sha is that it is normal for muslims to have difference in opinions, but we shouldn't let it result in intolerances.
It is only logical that there be some mistakes in the sahih collections, but I don't see how that equates to throwing the whole lot out.
Lastly, don't know if this is derailing the thread, but do I sense a bit of hostility towards Abubakr and Umar (ra)?
Salam alaykum

Alhamdullilah, if the Op is christian I am glad that atleast he is accepting that Jesus is just a prophet.. cool, we are making progress.

Well, dats y we listen to only certified scholars and not boko haram leaders for quranic lessons... and sometimes all the different meanings of the words actually fit the context in different ways...hence some miracles of the quran, but let's not even talk about those here. And other times its not dat d word wud av different meanings, but rather it has a DEEPER meaning that no english word can describe.
For example, translation of solat is prayer, which is an inadequate word in meaning for solat....and our good friend Tbaba1234 gave d example of rahman also, one word but encompassing a lot of characteristics without which it won't be d same word. In arabic they could av 5 different words for one thing, say fear. They wud av one word for fear of an unknown, another word for fear of sometin u av experienced before, another word for irrational fear, another word for fear of sometin someone else narrates to u, and so on, if thses different words were in different parts of the quran and they were all translated to english "fear" the translation loses dat depth of meaning of the kind of fear. I hope u get my drift

@beejaay... Sorry, but I don't know where u got ur idea from that a thing has to be forced on u before its a fitnah, but what I meant by fitnah in my post was trials I.e is this thread causing more good or more avenues for people to be misled?
Well this is me dropping my quota about the "quran needed to be learned in arabic" myth. I listened to the tafsir of surah humazah(104) by the Nouman Ali Khan, he spent more than 30 minutes explaining the first word of the first ayat which was "waylul", the common translation is "woe to", it is obvious that one wud be doing himself a great injustice by saying the arabic word is just as meaningful as d english closest translation, cuz most of thes words are DEEP. Surah Asr(103) which happens to be one of the shortest surah needed 5 sessions each lasting over 1 hour, that's about 5hours to explain 3 sentences....I doubt the english translations wud require the same time
Further more, the memorisation of the quran has been a major means by which Allah has preserved it.
And @usermane, there seems to be a loophole somewhere. If u say the quran need not be learned in arabic, but it is glaring dat it is easier to learn in arabic and according to statistics it is impossible to learn in any other language (since there is no known record of any one who memorised the entire quran's translation), doesn't that kinda mean u are indirectly discouraging muslims from trying to memorise the quran?
What I think is whether or not it was decreed that d quran is only quran when it is in arabic is beside the point, u just gotta weigh the options (assuming u are like me who doesn't understand arabic), its either u learn the quran in arabic u don't understand at all, or u learn the quran in arabic and then learn the translation of those surah as well as listen to knowledgeable scholars disect these arabic words full of meaning in so many ways, or u learn the quran in a language that carries maybe about 1/10th the original message, or u just don't learn the quran at all. If there is any other option besides learning the classical arabic and then learning the quran that u av in mind pls share, but I know which of these I am choosing regardless of whether learning the quran is compulsory or not. Asalam alaykum

Nevr said u were seeking attention, but anyhow, my question about the purpose of the thread was did u start it to educate fellow muslims and christians and whoever else there is alike, or did u post it to seek d opinion of others on the matters u raised.

Oh boy.... I really would like to understand the purpose of this thread @op. I know I am may not be all that knowledgeable as respect to deen, but do u really believe that this is doing more good than fitnah?
And I am just curious, do u know some surah in arabic or any other language? And if u do, how easy or hard was it for u. *i am not asking u these to argue, wud just like to understand u better, and u are free to ignore the questions

I did take my time to go through the op 10 myths, and to a large extent I disagree with them, but I do not av sufficient references for my opinions. I only urged dat d op wud read tbaba's post with genuity too, its not by force where everyone must be on my school of thought.
As for me, even though I don't understand arabic language, I av memorised the 1st surah and d last 27 surah both in arabic and their close translations, and I listen to scholars discuss d indebt meanings of the quan's surah. In islam we are madated to seek knowledge as long as we live and learning other languages is highly recommende so as to enble us to be able to relate wit more pple.
Even if it isn't compusory to learn arabic as u say, I would argue that learning the language would make one less vulnerable to being manipulated by extremists anyway...so at d end of the day its a win win situation for one to learn arabic. Its not like we are being asked to desert our own languages.
As regards the names...I agree dat it isn't "compusory" to change names to arabic names...but u av to realise that there are some tins dat pple do for the purpose of gaining the face of Allah dat seem irrelevant, but dat irrelevant deed may be loved by Allah, so we shudnt belittle anytin a person does for d sake of Allah, be it a change of name or refusing to step on an ant in his path. I happen to have a last name in yoruba and middle name in arabic which both av good meanings, and I use them both. Same with making dua, I make dua in both arabic and english and I av made a conscious effort to know the meaning of most of the dua I recite.
The key is to not be extreme in either direction, I.e don't say only arabic is accepted and don't totally negate the rrelevance of arabic.
We av to be careful not to make the deen hard for ourselves by making what Allah made permissible for us unlawful....
There are other points that do not agree wit but those wud really need references and I don't wanna delve into matters that I am not qualified to talk about without authority, so asalam alaykum

@Tbaba1234....very nice inputs, I only hope that the op is genuine and humble enough to reflect on your posts.
For those complaining about the no of rules in islam, that's just mercy from the Rabb(lord amongst other tins) that He made known to us what the limits are in EVERY thing we do to make us live a good life.
AS a similitude, if we were constantly aware of how many rules our bodies av just to keep us walking on two legs we wud realise ow important rules are. Sure engineers try to build robots to walk, but none can attain the fluidity of motion and grace of a human being... except its cyrax septor them them from mortal combat.... Allah knows best

u seem to be mixing my posts up with royPcain's posts, but anyway, its all good. Roypcain said that only 4
the last 4 ayat of of surah 2 were revealed to the prophet (SAW) during his ascent to heaven. And i wud agree with u that common sense will tell us that the human memory is fallible, but it is a miracle of the Quran that such common sense is nullified. There is only ONE version of the Quran in existence today, and it is the only divine scripture that has been principally passed on by memory, that in itself is a sign for those who reflect. I know only the last 27 and the first surah of the quran (both its arabic recitation and its close translation in english), and i can assure u that if i were to go through any quran with even just ONE discrepancy in the surah i know, i wud notice it God willing.
As to d reason behind the AS tag for others and SAW for only Muhammad....its because God says so
Lastly, i want to correct sometin, the quran copies that were destroyed were not translations...they were written in arabic but with misplaced "vowels", if u av seen arabic caligraphy u wud av noticed strokes or smalls signs above or beneath the "letters", these strokes are the "vowels" and other signs that determine the lengthening of the pronunciation and whatever...
lemme give u an english demostration...: imagine i wrote the sentence "love your son" without vowels= "lv yr sn", for those who av heard d original sentence they wud av no wahala recognising the truth of the sentence without the vowels...but if someone wanted to plant a seed of coruuption, one could put wrong vowels in the sentence like "live your sin" or "love your sin"....i hope u get my drift, it is a whole different thing from translating to another language like "fe omo e"....then later pple might start wondering did it mean "marry your child" or "love your daugther" or 'love your son'? and hence different versions wud be born of just that singular message...
God knows best

I am interested in seeing what the person dat started ds thread thinks of the quran, I am assuming that he/she has had enough time to peek in the quran since the beginning of the thread till now.

I noticed u av some wrong notions concerning the quran, I am gonna assume thet are honest mistakes. I do not have sufficient knowledge to post links or ayat but I feel I shud just clarify a fwe tins. For one, the quran wasn't revealed in one day/night, the quran was revealed in bits to d Prophet(SAW) who then narrated it to his companions. The reason for this is stated in d quran itself, where Allah(meaning "the worshipped one" in arabic) said(not quoting) "the quran has been revealed in bits so as to enable the companions to easily commit it to memory. Another point to note, is dat u are right dat d Prophet didn't "write" d quran himself, infact he was unlettered(meaning he cudnt read or write). The quran is an arabic word from d root word iqra which means recite. The quran was originally preserved by memory and wasn't commonly written. It wasn't until when a lot of the muslims that had memorised the quran were dieng that d then caliph(can't remember who) facilitated the writting of d quran, and even then they wrote it without the damma,keshra, ....kinda like writting words in a book without putting vowels, this was most likely because they were familiar wit d quran but just needed a written copy to "remind" themselves once in awhile of some things they may av forgotten, Allah knows best. After sometime, it became neccesary to write it with d "vowels", and some people saw ds as an opportunty to corrupt the quran and started making copies of the quran with misplaced "vowels" such that it became neccesary for the caliph at the time to destroy many "fake" copies of the quran....
As to the question of y we rely on so many hadith to justify, hadith are narrations of the companions of the prophet(SAW) about His life, his traditions, dos and donts, and the like. I don't see what ur problem with dat is, maybe if u cud rephrase ur question...
On to d next one, yup the prophet Muhammed(SAW) is no more than a prophet, and many are the prophets dat av come before him...
Concerning Jesus whom we refer to as prophet Isa(AS)...I do not feel d need to debate his status with u.
Finally, AS is an abbreviation(not sure if its official) for alayhi salam(might not av spelt rightly) which cud be translated as Peace be upon him, while SAW stands for Salla lahu Alayhi Wa salam...
While we are at this, the greetings we muslims say to ourselves is asalam alaykum warahmahtullahi wabarakatuh which cud be translated as may peace be upon u and the mercy of "the worshipped one" and blessings. And I wish ds to u.
Pls able ulama, correct me whereevr I was wrong, anything good in ds post is from Allah, and anything wrong is from myself and shaytan....

I am almost certain dat no muslim here has had any problem understanding my post, and I am sure if u only channeled ur research into honestly seeking the truth, u wud find answers to all ur questions, I do not see the relevance indulging in ur little game of who has d last word.

good for you, I am sure those that wud benefit from my post have benefitted, if u still avnt got the gist, no matter how many times I repost, u wud not get. Once again thanks for saving us the trouble of fetching that hadith. To those who reflect, Allah says in d quran (I am not quoting) that the Prophet(SAW) doesn't speak from his whims and fancies but every word he utters is a revelation...and our good friend here has brought forth authentic hadith saying the Prophet (SAW) SPOKE about the two Eid...I should think only a very very slow person wudnt be able to put two and two together

Deen4me has given a sufficient answer for the thread. Every soul would be content with whatever the Lord of the mankind gives him or her. It is foolishness to even imagine otherwise. And pls what is d point of this thread? Even if there was nothing but food and water, safety from d Hell fire is more than enough reason to be overjoyed about being granted paradise. In addition, Allah assures that He would ask everyone in paradise if they are pleased with Him, and they wud reply Yes!(May we be amongst them) and then He wud say as an added gift upon his faithful slaves, he wud show himself to the inhabitants of heaven. Now tell me how many virgins or treasures of the world or ow many heavens can compare to the gift of seeing the creator of ALL THINGS known and unknown? So pls let's not be side tracked by ds petty distractions, if God with his infinite wisdom has chosen not to reveal his reward for females in heaven, we shud not think that God is being unfair to d sisters. Just know that there is no lacking in paradise...once u get there...if u get there...

I wonder why we muslims always fall for this unproductive banter. If a person brings up a controversial subject, it is ok to clearly state d viewpoint of islam, but to engage in a battle of who has d last say just looks to me like our pride getting in the way. It is a sunnah to speak only when neccesary. Concerning the topic, which is between the bible and quran, no amount of wise words here can top the word of God, so if u are sincerely interested in comparing the two, pls just download translated copies of both and read for ursef, and if u aint sincerely interested incomparing...may God guide u the truth and keep u steadfast therein

Since the thread has drifted so far off topic, I wud assume that d matter has been solved concerning the question of the Op. Now to deal with d reigning dispute. @Nl member There are two sources of guidance for muslims: the noble quran, and the hadith (recorded traditions of the prophet). What u are asking for is for us to provide u an ayat of the Quran where the two Eids are mentioned (preferably by name). U see, even if it is not detailed in the quran, the hadith give us the nitty gritty of the occassion and the reasons and origins of it. And u are a living witness to that, since u are quoting hadith showing that it originated from the Prophet himself declaring that Allah ordained the two Eids, now if u don't believe the hadith, or don't believe that Muhammed(SAW) was a prophet is another entire topic, but if u are asking for a valid proof of the authencity for the Eid, the hadith wud suffice, so thanks for bringing it forth. But out of curiousity, what do u really hope to gain from ds little debate, every single christian festival has controversial origins but it doesn't deter most christians from partaking in them (am not looking for a debate about d origins of ur festivals), so y wud u see in an authentic hadith that d origin of the Eid is from the Prophet(SAW) and still want us to proof it from d Quran?