₦airaland Forum

blenble: whether u want or not,Jesus is coming for His church-His body;those who are saved by believing in Him,those who has been washed from their sin by His blood.
He said to Peter in Matthew 16:18.
"And I say unto thee,That thou art Peter, and upon this rock i will build MY CHURCH; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
So who are those He called His church?huh?

You still don't answer my question, the question is this "qoute where jesus said my second coming is for those who believe and watch by his blood"

blenble: who told u d disciples do not believ in His death? Who told u Jesus do not believe in His own death! You expect Him to come n declare islam as His religion? God forbid! U dnt believ dt He is christ, and u expect Him to come for u? U dnt accept Him as d Lord,n u 1t Him 2come for u? U even v no regard for Him and u expect Him to come for u? Continue to delude urself!

Can you give me detail how disciples believe in death and resurection of jesus christ

blenble: pls what religion did He bring? Islam? Do u knw d will of God? What is the Will of God pls?

Jesus loves you.

Jesus preached to follow the Law:

"Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:17-20)

Say: "O People of the Book! ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord." It is the revelation that cometh to thee from thy Lord, that increaseth in most of them their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy. But sorrow thou not over (these) people without Faith. (Al-Quran, 5:68)

If only they had stood fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that was sent to them from their Lord, they would have enjoyed happiness from every side. There is from among them a party on the right course: but many of them follow a course that is evil. (Al-Quran 5:66)

From those, too, who call themselves Christians, We did take a covenant, but they forgot a good part of the message that was sent them: so we estranged them, with enmity and hatred between the one and the other, to the day of judgment. And soon will Allah show them what it is they have done. (Al-Quran 5:14


Jesus orders Christians to follow the Law of Moses in the Old Testament: 

"Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.  I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.  (Matthew 5:17-18)" 

It is quite clear from these verses from the New Testament that Jesus peace be upon him did honor the Old Testament and did say that every single "letter" of it has to be honored, followed and fulfilled.

The verses of Matthew 23:1-3 "Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 'The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat.  So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.' 
We clearly see in these verses that Jesus peace be upon him did not prohibit for the Old Testament to be followed,

blenble: Nothing Paul said that is against Jesus; infact Paul preached what Jesus wants Him to say...no matter ho much one show u,u will still say n spew trash.
And i knw why...u ppl hates paul preaching so much bcus his teachings expose ur lies.
The summary of Paul teaching also go in line with that of Jesus...

Follow Jesus or Follow Paul?

The New Testament gives us a choice; either we follow Jesus Christ, or the anti-Christ Paul of Tarsus: Each one demands his followers to accept his teachings:

Paul said
Be ye followers of me… that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered [them] to you. (1 Corinthians 11:1)

Jesus said:
“If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed” (John 8:31)

Amazing, the former preached against the teachings of Jesus, and the latter, (Jesus) teaches that salvation is only attained by following him. According to Deuteronomy 24:16, Ezekiel 18:20-21, and Micah 6:7-8, a man is responsible for his own sin. Jesus rejected the Pauline doctrine of “vicarious atonement”.

And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission. (Hebrews 9:22)



Jesus was circumcised, Paul rejected circumcision:

On the eighth day, when it was time to circumcise him, he was named Jesus, the name the angel had given him before he had been conceived. (Luke 2:21

The Jewish Law commands the circumcision on the eighth day. The reason why Christians are not circumcised is because they follow Paul. They have broken the covenant of Circumcision according to Jesus himself (5:19)

For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love. (Galatians 5:6, KJV)


Jesus Forbade the Gentiles:

These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into [any] city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. (Matthew 10:5-6)

But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. (Matthew 15:24)

Paul rejected this command of NOT preaching to the Gentiles, they were restricted. Paul openly preached among the Gentiles, a totally different religion:

For I speak to you Gentiles, in as much as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: (Romans 11:13)

blenble: Do paul believ dt Jesus is Lord?YES.
Do paul believ dt Jesus is d Son of God?YES.

Which one should we believe; jesus is lord or jesus is son of God

blenble: Do paul believe dt Jesus is d saviour?YES.
NOW WHAT IS UR OWN ANSWER TO THE ABOVE? DO U BELIEV ANY OF D ABOVE.
YOUR ANSWER ABV WILL SHOW WETHER U OR UR MUSLIM BROTHERS R/IS AN ANTICHRIST OR NOT!

There is no saviour besides GOD:

I, [even] I, [am] the LORD; and beside me [there is] no saviour. (Isaiah 43:11) 

Yet I [am] the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for [there is] no saviour beside me. (Hosea 13:4)

And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour. (Luke 1:47)

These verses refute the Christian phrase “Jesus is my lord and saviour”. There is no Saviour besides Yahweh! Jesus never claimed to be “Lord and Saviour” to the Jews. He explicitly said “I do not accept praise from men” (John 5:41) “In vain do they worship me” (Matthew 15:9, Mark 7:7) and “The Father is greater than I” (John 14:28) etc.


The “Lord Jesus” came from Paul

The deification of Jesus as “Lord and Savior” was concocted by Paul. There is no verse to substantiate the Christian phrase in the Gospels. It was Paul who introduced the title “Lord Jesus Christ”, not the disciples who knew Jesus face to face.

To all in Rome who are loved by God and called to be saints: Grace and peace to you from God our Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ. (Romans 1:7)

Rather, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not think about how to gratify the desires of the sinful nature. (Romans 13:14)

 
Notice how Jesus never gloried himself as “Lord and Savior”, these false titles were given to him later.
 
The phrase “Lord and Saviour” originated from the epistle of 2Peter, the most doubtful book in the New Testament. The Church Father Origen (185-254 CE) was the first to mention it by name! 2Peter was not accepted by the Church until the 4th century.

And you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. (2 Peter 1:11)

blenble: Ayyenni,i v known u for a time now. You v always been a liar- a perfect description of an antichrist!

Paul is a liar, he claims to follow the Law of Christ when the Law of Christ was the observance of the Torah (Matthew 5:17-20) the very Law that he strongly rejected! The hypocrisy of Paul is further exposed in the following verse:

For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner? (Romans 3:7, King James Version)

Paul is the anti-Christ, the supreme liar, the pathological liar, and the corrupter of Jesus’ Gospel. The Jewish Christians (Nazarenes and Ebionites) considered him an ‘apostate’ from Judaism, yet historical accounts say that he was born Gentile.

The author Roshen Enam says:

“Paul abolished the Law, which was followed and preached by Jesus (pbuh), and corrupted the whole religion, giving it a new form. The main ambition behind all this was, in his own words, “to win a larger number” of followers; the followers of a new religion “the Pauline Christianity”. (Follow Jesus or Follow Paul p. 69)

blenble: 2 John 7.
For many deciever are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an ANTICHRIST.

Amazingly, Paul went to such extremes that he claimed Jesus destroyed the Jewish Law!

“He (Jesus) brought the hostility to an end, by abolishing the Law of commandments with its regulations”. (Ephesians 2:14)

Needless to say, the passage contradicts Matthew 5:17-20 where Jesus specifically states that he came to preach the Law, not to destroy it.

Paul gave evidence that he was building a new religion, a complete deviation from Jesus’ teachings:

Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundation: (Romans 15:20)

As stated earlier, the teachings of Jesus were based on the Law, yet the Law is rejected by Christians today, so how could they be called Christians?

Moreover, the “Christians” do not follow the Gospel of Jesus; they follow the Gospel of Paul. The Nazarenes and Ebionties were followers of Jesus’ Gospel, which no longer exists today. Nevertheless, the “Christians” of today are not implementing the teachings of their “lord and savior” (see John 8:31) The Nazarenes/Ebionites never degraded Jesus by calling him “lord and savior”; they considered him a great Prophet and Messenger

blenble: 1 John 2:22.
Who is liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is an ANTICHRIST, that denieth the Father and the Son.
(SO WHICH CATEGORY DO YOU FALL INTO? HUH?)

The Pauline “Christians” that exist today do not follow Christ, they should be called Paulians. The true Christians were the Nazarenes and Ebionites that no longer exist.

Paul degraded Jesus in the following verses:

Therefore let us leave the elementary doctrine of Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, (Hebrews 6:1, English Standard Version)

Paul emphasized that Christ was not perfect, hence his teachings should be discarded, because according to Paul, they are like ‘filthy and useless rags’ (Isaiah 64:6) and we must excel towards “perfection and maturity”. The deceptive editors changed the English translation of Paul’s damaging words. This outrageous statement has been softened in many other versions of the Bible:

So let us stop going over the basics of Christianity again and again. Let us go on instead and become mature in our understanding. Surely we don't need to start all over again with the importance of turning away from evil deeds and placing our faith in God. (Hebrews 5:7. New Living Translation)

cleanvessel: When we say islam has to do with idol worship, they say it is a lie. The three idols mentioned here were in the same centre with black stone in Kabah. I am sure Allah is in love with the three of them and that was why he was settling the dispute among them.

Tell me, what is the true God's business seeking unity among idols? I believe islam is a sister religion to the idol worship, hence Allah's intervention to reconcile them.

As no muslim could defend it, this is why the unusual silence. No surprise if this thread is deleted because muslims cannot tolerate exposure of islamic secrets, it is offensive:

O ye who believe! Ask not of things which, if they were made known unto you, would trouble you......
(Quran 5:101)

A folk before you asked for such disclosure and then disbelieved therein.
(Quran 5:102)

Lat, Uzza, and Manat are mentioned in the Quran, but in what context? cleanvessel wants to give the false impression that just because they are named in the Quran then they have some legitimacy and that we should worship these idols. Let us see what the Quran says concerning these pagan idols


053.021
YUSUFALI: What! for you the male sex, and for Him, the female?

053.022
YUSUFALI: Behold, such would be indeed a division most unfair!

053.023
YUSUFALI: These are nothing but names which ye have devised,- YE AND YOUR FATHERS,- FOR WHICH ALLAH HAS SENT DOWN NO AUTHORITY (whatever). THEY FOLLOW NOTHING BUT CONJECTURE and what their own souls desire!- Even though there has already come to them Guidance from their Lord!

Don't you see that Allah exposes them making such a lie! Allah tells them that they the pagans have invented these false idols, and that it is something corrupt.

In fact I will not hold the Christians responsible for such deceit, but I will hold the holy spirit responsible. Christians claim the holy spirit inspires them, if that is true then the holy spirit is inspiring them to be untruthful, and to be distorters of truth, and to try and make up a lie. And such actions cannot be coming from a holy being, rather such action is inspired by someone called Iblis, who is shaytan, because only shaytan inspires people to make a lie against Allah and his Noble Quran.

pointblank 321: [Quran 53:19]
Have you then considered the Lat and the Uzza,

[Quran 53:20]
And Manat, the third, the last?

[Quran 53:21]
What! for you the males and for Him the females!

[Quran 53:22]
This indeed is an unjust division!

[Quran 53:23]
They are naught but names which you have named, you and your fathers; Allah has not sent for them any authority. They follow naught but conjecture and the low desires which (their) souls incline to; and certainly the guidance has come to them from their Lord.

Lat, Uzzra and Manat are all known idols among Arabs.Why would Allah reconcile them and removing the division among them? When did God start to have relationship with idols? What is Allah and Islam about?

Lat, Uzza, and Manat are mentioned in the Quran, but in what context? Pointblack321 wants to give the false impression that just because they are named in the Quran then they have some legitimacy and that we should worship these idols. Let us see what the Quran says concerning these pagan idols


053.021
YUSUFALI: What! for you the male sex, and for Him, the female?

053.022
YUSUFALI: Behold, such would be indeed a division most unfair!

053.023
YUSUFALI: These are nothing but names which ye have devised,- YE AND YOUR FATHERS,- FOR WHICH ALLAH HAS SENT DOWN NO AUTHORITY (whatever). THEY FOLLOW NOTHING BUT CONJECTURE and what their own souls desire!- Even though there has already come to them Guidance from their Lord!

Don't you see that Allah exposes them making such a lie! Allah tells them that they the pagans have invented these false idols, and that it is something corrupt.

In fact I will not hold the Christians responsible for such deceit, but I will hold the holy spirit responsible. Christians claim the holy spirit inspires them, if that is true then the holy spirit is inspiring them to be untruthful, and to be distorters of truth, and to try and make up a lie. And such actions cannot be coming from a holy being, rather such action is inspired by someone called Iblis, who is shaytan, because only shaytan inspires people to make a lie against Allah and his Noble Quran.

From the verses of John, jesus made some points which as follows;

1. ANOTHER ADVOCATE
So from the verse of John 14:16 jesus said "ANOTHER ADVOCATE"" If the comforter or advocate is the Holy Ghost then how many Holy Ghost's are there? The word "another" is significant. We have already seen how this term is applied to Jesus (peace be upon him) himself. In English, "another" may mean "One more of the same kind" or "one more of a different kind." If the latter were the one intended then the current Christian interpretation might bear some merit. However, if "One more of the same kind" was what was intended then this is positive proof that the coming Paraclete would be just like Jesus (as), a human being and a prophet, not a ghost

2. "He" not "It":

Notice the use of "he" when referring to the Paraclete and not "it." If we read John 16:13, we will find no less than SEVEN occurrences of the masculine pronoun "He" and "Himself." There is not another verse in the 66 books of the Protestant Bible or the seventy three books of the Catholic Bible which contains seven masculine pronouns, or seven feminine pronouns, or even seven neuter genders. So many masculine pronouns ill befits a ghost, holy or otherwise. The word "Spirit" (Greek, pneu'ma), is of a neutral gender and is always referred to by the pronoun "it."

3. Sin, righteousness, and error:

The coming Paraclete, we are told, will demonstrate the error of the world regarding sin, righteousness, and judgment "he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment." This is indeed what Muhammad (peace be upon him) did. He came to the world to show them how they had been misguided in "sin" by believing that mankind can inherit sin (see last quarter of chapter one, and Ezekiel 18:19-20) and that someone's sin can be forgiven by the sacrifice of others. He also showed them how they had been misguided in "righteousness" by believing that a righteous person is one who has "faith" in the crucifixion and does nothing else (Romans 3:28), or who believes that another man's death will make him a righteous person (Romans 5:19). And they were misguided in "judgment" by believing that they will be judged by "faith" and other people's deeds and not their own deeds (Mark 16:16), or that God's "judgment" was to punish all mankind for the sin of one man (Romans 5:16, 5:18).

Muhammad (peace be upon him) taught that the unscrupulous had altered the words of Jesus (peace be upon him). He taught that no one will be held accountable by God for anyone else's sin. He emphasized that God has made this a life of work and the next life one of reward and no work. He also revealed that mankind will be judged individually according to their own individual faith and actions and no one else's.

4. That he may abide with you for ever:

The Paracletos will be the last prophet, because he will "abide with you forever" and "he will guide you into all truth" (Greek "into the whole truth" and "he shall teach you all things," so there will be no need for any further prophets. In the Qur'an we read:

"Muhammad is not the father of any man among you, but he is the messenger of Allah and the Seal of the Prophets; and Allah is Aware of all things." (The noble Qur'an, , al-Ahzab(33):40)

5. He shall bring all things into your remembrance:

The prophesy of this coming Paraclete requires that he shall remind mankind of the words of Jesus. However, if the followers of Jesus already know and remember all that Jesus taught then how shall the Paraclete "remind" them of something which they already remember? Obviously, the coming Paraclete shall come in a time when the teachings of Jesus have been forgotten.

deSika: Now understand this
1. If you cannot show what paraclete means other than comforter/advocate from a lexicon/dictionary. Then the christians are correct. Your failure has just began

"Parakletos" or "Periklytos"?:
One thing that the reader needs to know is that Jesus peace be upon him spoke Aramaic during his ministry.  What you have from Greek Bibles is nothing but a mere translation to what Jesus originally spoke.  It's not any different than the English translation that we have today.

And as any linguistic person would tell you, translating words from language to language can be quite challenging, because it is easy for mistranslations to occur and for sentences to be taken out of context.  Languages and styles of speaking and writing are effected by their cultures.  People write a certain way and speak certain words at certain situations because of their cultural standards.  What might be ok for a person to say in one culture might be offending if said in another.

So the point is clear:  You can't take the Greek translation of the Bible all for granted, because it wasn't the mother language that Jesus spoke!   You want to disprove that Muhammad was foretold by Jesus, then disprove it from the Aramaic language and not the Greek.


Now as to "and He will give you another Comforter, that He may abide with you forever", as a Muslim I believe that this is referring to Prophet Muhammad, since Muhammad in Arabic means "the glorified" or "the honored", and "Periklytos" in Greek also means "the honored" one.

Christians believe that the Greek word for "comforter" is translated from the word "Paraclete" ("Ho Parakletos" in Greek).

Parakletos in Greek is interpreted as "an advocate", one who pleads the cause of another, one who councils or advises another from deep concern for the other's welfare (Beacon Bible commentary volume VII, p.168).

But if we look at the case of John 14:26, we find that it is the only verse of the Bible which associates the Parakletos with the Holy Spirit.

Spirit in the Bible refers to "Human Prophets" and not Ghost Spirits.  Take this example:

"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world," (1 John 4:1-3)

Therefore, there is ample proofs that Jesus predicted a coming of a Human Comforter and not the Holy Spirit as Christians falsely believe.  The advocate and the Glorified one that was foretold by Jesus is a Human Prophet and not a Holy Ghost.  This human prophet is Muhammad (saw), and the the Noble Quran, the revelation that Muhammad brought from Allah Almighty is what "will abide with us forever" as Jesus said.

deSika: 2. Was Jesus speaking to his disciples about a comforter. Yes or no.

3. If yes can you show where the disciples had the holyspirit before Jesus made the speech. Where you cant do this then sorry you are not making progress. You are just being foolish.

I have told you how the Holy Ghost was already with them, In the verses we read "if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you."

And you told me that jesus had left them physically in death, Where did you get that?

deSika: 4. Alternatively you could show us where in the bible Jesus was promising the whole world that a paraclete would come to everybody and not just the disciples.
If you cant do this, shame on you.

John 16:7-14 "Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the WORLD of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin,..........

I want you to notice this statement "he will reprove the WORLD of sin" can you tell me that only his disciples were in the world?

blenble: Jesus is coming back for His body-His church,those that have been sanctified and cleansed by His blood; those dt accepted Him as their Lord and saviour.

can you tell me where jesus(as) said so in the bible.

blenble: Is it muslims that do not believe in His death or ressurection dt He will come for?

how do you expect us to believe in his death or ressurection when jesus himself and his disciples were not believe that

blenble: You v shown him several times dt Jesus did not bring any religion,

Jesus didn't bring christianity religion but asked you to follow the Will of God. Did you follow it?

cleanvessel: It is only the jinns matter you saw there. When none of you muslims could give an answer to the question at islamic section, they felt disgraced and deleted it. The same you are doing here again.

Nobody can answer how the revelations said to have come from God is full of errors.

Nobody can answer how the writer of quran after Muhammad's death could pick the correct recitations from the contradicting recitations by the memorizers since he (writer) could not hear from Allah like Muhammad for confirmation.

How can any reasonable person be proud of a book (quran) full of guess works as reliable?

Mr Man don't give yourself hypertension now, I told you not to derail the thread open another thread and invite me. If u open the thread and nobody attend to you for the challenge why not you go to any Muslims thread and paste your thread link for challenge, I hope they will answer you. Pls open the thread anywhere and invite me insha-Allahu I will respond.

Pls answer the OP because I challenged Christians to answer my question unfortunately nobody respond except DESIKA and also I noticed that desika is not a christian. Where are other christians to answer the questions?

deSika: this was after Jesus made the comforter speech. I asked that you show where the holyspirit was with the disciples before the comforter speech. So you failed again. Sorry.

See how you gun yourself down, Jesus said in John 16:7
7. Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I GO AWAY: for if I GO NOT AWAY, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I DEPART, I will send him unto you.

HAS HE DEPARTED BEFORE DISCIPLES RECEIVED HOLY GHOST in john 20:21-22;

"Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost."

deSika: Jesus was talking to his disciples [b] alone

See how you failed woefully, if you interpret the verses to disciples ALONE that means the disciples are still alive when Jesus said in matt 16:27-28

27. For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done.
28. I tell you the truth, SOME WHO ARE STANDING HERE will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

Matthew 10:22-23

22. All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.
23. When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. I tell you the truth, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

Jesus (as) was telling his followers that they will never taste death. However, there is not a single one of them alive to this day.

deSika: You have still not answered my question. And this is it.

John 14:16
16. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

so how can Jesus (as) say if he does not go the "comforter" will not come if that comforter is already there? The "holy spirit" was already there regardless if Jesus (as) stays or leave. This means we cannot say the "comforter" is the "holy spirit".so we clear see that this person that will lead people into "all truth" is someone like Jesus -a prophet- who will come newly to earth.

Look at these verses below and compare it maybe Jesus (as) was referring to an advocate or holy spirit,
1 John 2:1:
"My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:"

John 14:16
16. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another advocate, that he may abide with you for ever;

Mudley313: my friend, go back to that your totalitarian islam section of a sub-group; you come here to enjoy the lil freedom of expression in the main religious section while your tyrannical mods bans every tom, d1ck and harry for questioning your barbaric arabian religion, just like your fellow savages in real life who live and enjoy the freedom and amenities of the west while at the same time carrying out hate filled terrorist acts against it...don't you have some women to stone somewhere?

https://www.islamophobiatoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/atheists.png

Is that the answer to my question,

cleanvessel: You are a liar, nobody could answer the questions and that was why they deleted the thread. It is only in islamic section they delete or hide threads because islam is a cult, which will not want its secrets to be exposed. Bunch of idol worshipers that you are.

Why did you call me a liar, did I know anything about your thread why not report to moderator who incharge of the section.
If what you said was not against the rules of this forum why not ask MO the reason of your thread to be deleted, he is the one who can say anything about the thread. thks

cleanvessel: Your thread is not intended to ask genuine questions but an attach on the bible. If such questions are posted on your islamic section, what you do is delete them. I posted a thread in the islamic section, instead of answering them, they deleted it outright. That is what you guys do when your religion is exposed. I was expecting you to say something there, you were nowhere to be found.


TODAY'S QURAN IS NOT THE ORIGINAL


[Shakir 4:82]
Do they not then meditate on the Quran? And if it were from any other than Allah, they would have found in it MANY a discrepancy.

The above quranic verse has given room for discrepancies even though they may not be MANY. The discrepancies it terms as not many is unknown but what is known is that as a book from Allah, it is not supposed to have any. This is contrary to muslims claims that the quran is perfect.

Bukhari Book 6, Volume 61, Haddith 510

Narrated By Anas bin Malik : Hudhaifa bin Al-Yaman came to Uthman at the time when the people of Sham and the people of Iraq were Waging war to conquer Arminya and Adharbijan. Hudhaifa was afraid of their (the people of Sham and Iraq) DIFFERENCES IN THE RECITATIONS OF THE QUR'AN, so he said to 'Uthman, "O chief of the Believers! Save this nation before they differ about the Book (Quran) as Jews and the Christians did before." So 'Uthman sent a message to Hafsa saying, "Send us the manuscripts of the Qur'an so that we may compile the Qur'anic materials in perfect copies and return the manuscripts to you." Hafsa sent it to 'Uthman. 'Uthman then ordered Zaid bin Thabit, 'Abdullah bin AzZubair, Said bin Al-As and 'AbdurRahman bin Harith bin Hisham to REWRITE the manuscripts in perfect copies. 'Uthman said to the three Quraishi men, "In case you DISAGREE with Zaid bin Thabit on any point in the Qur'an, then write it in the dialect of Quraish, the Qur'an was revealed in their tongue." They did so, and when they had written many copies, 'Uthman returned the original manuscripts to Hafsa. 'Uthman sent to every Muslim province one copy of what they had copied, and ordered that all the other Qur'anic materials, whether written in fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies, BE BURNT. Said bin Thabit added, "A Verse from Surat Ahzab was missed by me when we copied the Qur'an and I used to hear Allah's Apostle reciting it. So we searched for it and found it with Khuzaima bin Thabit Al-Ansari. (That Verse was): 'Among the Believers are men who have been true in their covenant with Allah.' (33.23)

The hadith under reference states the fact that there were some portions of the quran that were written after Muhammad's death.

OBSERVATIONS:

1. The satanic verse: Satan had almost succeeded in making inputs in the quran by deleting Allah's revelations from Muhammad's memory and replacing them with his own but for the quick intervention of Allah. It was possible to avert this problem because Muhammad could hear from Allah. But when other revelations were being compiled into the quran after Muhammad's death, there was noway the writer could have detected if Satan has tampered with the memorizers' memories as they could not hear from Allah like Muhammmad. In islam, it was only Muhammad who could hear from Allah.

2. There is no doubt that Satan has tampered with the memories of the memorizers because:

(a) Satan was already at work and that was why there were differences in recitations by the memorizers.
(b) There were disagreements between the memorizers.
(c) Other manuscripts were burnt off to make confirmations impossible.

3. It was the revelations that were given to Muhammad and not the writing. The writing were the works of men even at Muhammad's time, talkless of when he was no more around.

CONCLUSIONS:

HOW WAS THE WRITER ABLE TO PICK THE CORRECT RECITATIONS AMONG THE CONTRADICTING RECITATIONS AS HE COULD NOT HEAR FROM ALLAH FOR CONFIRMATION?

Under the above narrated situations, it is not reasonable for anybody to believe the quran is perfect or free of errors. The quran itself has admitted that there are some errors.

NOTE:

I know you will call it derailment of the thread for you to avoid talking about it. But if it gets to your islamic section they will delete it as they have once deleted it. If it is posted in the Christian section, it will be transferred to the islamic section only to be deleted. Who is deceiving who?. Anything that exposes the falsehood in your religion (islam) is not welcome.

MR MAN, are you here to answer my question or to derail the topic, if you want to answer the OP pls do or stay away, if you don't see anybody to answer you from islam section is that means you shud come here to derail the thread.
Don't worry am sure your question should have answered by my muslims brother.

deSika: you for tell me say you don dey set jamb exam for nairaland na. Anyways i cant answer all that jamb questions now because of the phone am using. Maybe later

But you used phone to answer one you can defend why can't you use phone to answer the rest.
If I know that it is only you will respond from all the christians in this forum I would have reduce the question to one question. The questions still remain there anybody can still answer anyone that can be able to defend.

deSika: Can you show from a dictionary/lexicon what paraclete means other than comforter/advocate/helper etc. If there is no alternative meaning for paraclete. Then am afraid you dont have a question.

From the verses I need explanation how holy spirit could be;
1. Paraclete
2. He" not "It"
3. He shall not speak of himself:
4. He will guide you into all truth
5. Reprove the world of Sin, righteousness, and error:
6. Does the Holy Spirit "speak" or "inspire"
7. That he may abide with you for ever:
8. He shall bring all things into your remembrance
9. He will show you things to come

deSika: was Jesus speaking to the above people. You have not answered my question. This is my question. Show me where the Holyspirit was with/in the disciples before Jesus speech. Am sure you understand english. JESUS was telling his disciples "Its necessary that i leave YOU(Jesus disciples) [b] for the holyspirit to come to you my disciples". For you to make your assertions. You have to show where these same disciples that Jesus was speaking to had the Holyspirit.

2. Or better still you could show us where Jesus told us that it is expedient that he leaves [b] the world (everybody in the world) so that the paraclete would come to the [b] people of the world [/] if you cant do this then am afraid you dont have a question.

Disciples has Holy spirit during life of Jesus

"And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him." (Luke 2:25)

"And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost (Simeon), that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ." (Luke 2:26)

"And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him (Jesus), and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased." (Luke 3:22)

"Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost." (John 20:21-22)


If what you mean is that Jesus was talking to his disciples alone, so the disciples should still be alive by now, from Matthew 16:27-28

27. For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done.
28. I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

Matthew 10:22-23

22. All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.
23. When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. I tell you the truth, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

Jesus (as) is quoted many times in the Bible as telling his followers that they will never taste death. However, there is not a single one of them alive to this day. Was he lying?