₦airaland Forum

The Quran and Bible agrees that Jesus ascended unto heaven (Luke 24:51), but the main dispute is about what happened in between: the alleged crucifixion, death and resurrection of Jesus (pbuh).


MUSLIMS BELIEVE

Muslims believed that they neither killed him nor crucified him, but it was made to appear so unto them. In many places in Qur'an,.
Surah 4, Verses 157 & 158:


JESUS BELIEF

Jesus said “sleep on now, and take rest: it is enough, the hour is come; behold, the son of man is betrayed into the hands of the sinners.” (Mark 14:41)

“the son of man is betrayed to be crucified” (Matthew 26:2)

Jesus says in Matthew 26:24: “The son of man goes as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born”

Jesus never said he will be crucified, but only reveals the intention with which he will be betrayed: “betrayed to be crucified”.


DISCIPLES OF JESUS BELIEVE

Mark 14:50: And they all forsook him, and fled.

The disciples did not witness the alleged crucifixion, death and resurrection of Jesus


My Question is what happened in between: the alleged crucifixion, death and resurrection of Jesus

Ayomivic: @ayenny02 I don't know why muslims hate Paul or why they think they follow or observe the law more than the christians. It's in law that will 'should keep the sabbat day holly' be it sunday or saturday. Do Muslims keep that law? It's in law that 'thou shall not kill' but we have so call Muslims that are killing innocent people in the name of religion.

Maybe you forgot that jesus broke the sabbath day

Ayomivic: Let me make a correction concerning what you wrote about Paul. Paul did not call peter hyprocrite because he eats with gentiles but because he withdrew from eating with them when he saw the Jews. Thank God, you yourself quoted it in Galatians 2:11-21.

It was the believe of Jewish that eating with gentile is a sin and abomination because the believed that gentiles are uncircumsied people,they are unclean. If this is correct and peter was a Jew,why did he eats with gentiles initially and withdrew when he saw Jews?

All the same Peter also testified to Holly Spirit that is woking in Paul in 2 Peter 3 i quote

wherefore, beloved,seeing that you look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless

15 And account that longsuffering of our lord is salvation; even as our brother paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

DID PAUL PERSECUTE THE DISCIPLE. YES OR NO

Ayomivic: You said paul was in support of eating of unclean meat.what are you going to say to the teaching of Jesus that says

Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man. (matthew 15:11)

thank God you trust book of matthew

According to Matthew and Mark, Jesus said that all foods are clean, but the Jewish Law clearly prohibits the consumption of pork!

Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man. (Matthew 15:11)

"Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him 'unclean'? For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods "clean." He went on: "What comes out of a man is what makes him 'unclean.' (Mark 7:18-20)

Notice how the deceptive editors placed a note (in brackets) claiming that Jesus made all foods clean. This is clearly false, and Jesus never uttered these words. The Gospels were written under the influence of Paul, who rejected the Jewish Law (Hebrews 5:13, Galatians 3:13)

The Gentile writers fabricated these words to make Jesus say that all foods are clean, thus supporting the Pauline doctrine. According to Matthew 5:17-20, 23:23, Jesus came to preach the Jewish Law, and what does the Jewish Law say about eating pork?

The Bible prohibits the eating of pork. Jesus never made permissible the consumption of ‘all’ foods, it was a Pauline innovation by the Gospel writers.

 The Gnostic leader Marcion (d 140 CE) said that Jewish scribes were corrupting the Gospels by adding Jewish material into them. This proves that the four Gospels were originally composed by Gentile (pagan) writers.

Jesus only ate kosher meat and was forbidden to eat pig’s flesh.

The Gospels imply that eating pork is forbidden, since Jesus murdered over 2,000 pigs by drowning them in the sea, and he will destroy the pigs on his Second Coming.

And he said unto them, Go. And when they were come out, they went into the herd of swine: and, behold, the whole herd of swine ran violently down a steep place into the sea, and perished in the waters. (Matthew 8:32, Mark 5:13)

Ayomivic: 1. Does Jesus follow the Old Testament law? If your answer is yes then how?

4 Tell us if Muslims follow the teaching of Jesus Christ and how?

Those questions have been answered already check back

Ayomivic: 2 Why did Jesus called the pharisees and scribes in his time hyprocrites? Let see if you know bible.

Becos Jews (scribes and pharises), they had changed the commands and doctrines of God and substituted them with their own traditions. He says: Matthew 15:1-9

"Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees (learned Jews), which were of Jerusalem, saying, Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread. But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death. But ye say, Whosoever shall say to [his] father or [his] mother, [It is] a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; And honour not his father or his mother, [he shall be free]. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition. [Ye] hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with [their] lips; but their heart is far from me But in vain they do worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men."

Ayomivic: 3. Which people follows the law of OT between Christians and Muslims ? If your answer is Muslims ,how?

Muslims are those who follow the law of OT

Jesus orders Christians to follow the Law of Moses in the Old Testament:  "Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.  I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.  (Matthew 5:17-18)"


WORSHIP ONE GOD
Old testament says To believes in One God and Jesus too believes in One God but Christians believes in trinity


ADULTERY
The Old Testament prohibits a son from marrying his own mother, sister, or father's former wife.
The Old Testament also orders those who commit adultery to be burnt in fire, and those who decide to desert their religion and follow another religion must get stoned to death (Deuteronomy 13:6-9, and Deuteronomy 17:3-5). Also the Old Testament orders Gays and Lesbians to be burnt in fire.

These laws were put by Jesus himself (assuming that Jesus is GOD himself as Christians believe).  However, these laws do not exist in the New Testament. Does this mean that since these laws do not exist in the New Testament, then that would allow the son to marry his own mother?  or the brother to marry his own sister? or a Gay person to become a minister or priest in a church?  and if that would be ok, then wouldn't that all be a contradiction to what Jesus wants since he is the one who inspired the Old Testament?


POLYGAMY
Let us look at some of the verses from the Old Testament that allow polygamy:

In Exodus 21:10, a man can marry an infinite amount of women without any limits to how many he can marry.

In Deuteronomy 21:15 "If a man has two wives, and he loves one but not the other, and both bear him sons...."


Christians always say as an excuse "Oh this law doesn't exist in the New Testament, it is only the Old Testament."  Well, according to Matthew 5:17-18 above, we clearly see that Jesus honored the Old Testament, and forces Christians to follow the unmodified laws of it that have not been replaced by newer ones in the New Testament.  The Old Testament as we clearly see above does indeed allow polygamy without a shadow of a doubt !!.

There is not a single verse from the New Testament that prohibits polygamy.

CIRCUMCISION

This [is] my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised. And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant. (Genesis 17:14)

On the eighth day, when it was time to circumcise him, he was named Jesus, the name the angel had given him before he had been conceived. (Luke 2:21)

The Jewish Law commands the circumcision on the eighth day. The reason why Christians are not circumcised is because they follow Paul. They have broken the covenant of Circumcision according to Jesus himself (5:19)

For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love. (Galatians 5:6, KJV)


N:B--CHRISTIAN MEAN THOSE WHO FOLLOW PAUL DOCTRINE NOT JESUS DOCTRINE

cleanvessel: Your thread is about which is an anti-Christ between Christianity and Islam and you don't want to discuss islam but christianity alone. How biased you are. You should have opened a thread without mentioning islam at all. I don't think you know what you are doing.

Hope u don't understand me very well, I asked u to bring any Quran verses or hadith that against anti-christ I will entertain that but other that unrelated to the topic, pls open a thread and invite muslims there. UNDERSTOOD!!!!!!!!!

cleanvessel: What is it you are doing? I talked about quran and islam you said am trying to derail the thread. Do you open the thread for bible and christianity discussions only?

This thread mean to expose anti-christ, if u have anything in islam that against jesus you are free to bring it and let's analyse it but anything unrelated to the topic I will not answer it. Open thread for unrelated topic and challenge muslims, we will answer you. Sorry!!!! 

cleanvessel: Pls check the topic of your thread and react to the points raised on Muhammad and islam.

Bring any verses that you believe its against the jesus, I will accommodate that

Paul has been denounced by theologians and scholars throughout history, the hatred which he incited by his teachings against the Jewish Law, and the political support he gave to the Roman emperors, show how desperate he was to destroy the Nazarene sect, the followers of the early Jesus movement, known as The Way (Acts 9:2, 19:23)

Paul’s claim to being Pharisaic is lying of the highest order. Paul was a Gnostic by the style of his own literature! He persecuted the followers of Jesus to please the heart of Popea, but when he failed; he burst into rage, inventing “Christianity” by preaching against the Jewish Law and the doctrines. He produced Christianity for the sole purpose of converting Gentiles. In order to win Gentiles, he became like a Gentile, to win Jews, he became like a Jew. The verse reads:

Though I am free and belong to no man, I make myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God's law but am under Christ's law), so as to win those not having the law. (1 Corinthians 9:19-21)

TELL ME IS IT TRUE OF FALSE, IF IT IS FALSE PLS DEFEND IT

cleanvessel: Pls check the topic of your thread and react to the points raised on Muhammad and islam.

pls open a thread concerning that I will respond, let people see the truth don't let's us derail from the topic.
SORRY!!!!!!!

cleanvessel: I repeat, you are a minister of anti-Christ. You and your anti-Christ agents on the internet that you paste their errors are not capable of winning souls to hellfire meant for the muslims.

You always quote Paul out of context. With your mind to criticize you cannot see clearly the real meanings of his statements, moreso that you have no training in the bible.

You keep attacking Paul wrongly as the founder of Christianity. That is one of the proofs that you are not versed in the bible, you only quote the statements of your mentors on the net.

if what I said was not true why not prove me wrong, did I quote anything from Quran?
Sorry continue with ur falsehood

cleanvessel: Muhammad was the founder of islam. He claimed he received revelations from a spirit and you believe. How are sure you he truly received revelation from a spirit? Were you there? Who else saw the spirit for confirmation? HOW ARE YOU SURE THE SPIRIT THAT SPOKE TO MUHAMMAD (if at all) WAS NOT THE SPIRIT OF ANTI-CHRIST GOING BY THE MESSAGES HE REVEALED? In Buddaism, Ekanka etc, they too all see spirits giving them messages.

Please tell us where God promised sending Muhammad? A prophet whose mission has to do with salvation of mankind must have his coming announced by God. Somebody cannot just wake up one day and claim he brings good news to mankind. There has to be confirmation from God. God speaks to all prophets but Muhammad.

If it was God who sent Gabriel, He would have spoken for his confirmation. God never spoke to Muhammad except in his one-night dream to paradise.

Tell me, which of the prophets God sent an angel to appoint like Muhammad? It is God Himself who appoints His prophets. Muhammad's case is like the president of a nation sending his messenger to appoint a minister.Where do see that done. Angels are but God's messengers. Muhammad was used by the spirit of anti-Christ who pretended to have come from God. That Gabriel was not the true God's Gabriel. Islam was introduced and controlled by the spirit of anti-Christ.

pls don't derail the thread, if you have anything against islam open your thread and challenge muslims

cleanvessel: Islam was introduced and controlled by the spirit of anti-Christ.

You should have known the anti-christ between islam and paul the founder of christianity

Paul created a doctrine about “salvation through the cross” while discarding the teachings of Jesus in its totality.

He established the falsehood that “faith in the resurrection” is the way to salvation while totally rejecting the sayings of Jesus (Matthew 9:13, 12:7, Hosea 6:6, Micah 8:7-

And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. (1 Corinthians 15:14-17)

The Old Testament teaches that ‘human sacrifice’ is wrong, and the verses Job 7:9, 14:14, Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 deny the resurrection!

[As] the cloud is consumed and vanisheth away: so he that goeth down to the grave shall come up no [more]. (Job 7:9)

Toks2008: I have been pondering over this too that the Holy Qur'an and the Prophet Mohamed(SAW) corroborated every story about Jesus except his death which is far more important than all his life story put together.

Honestly, as a Believer and Born again christian, i still marvel at the discipline the good Muslims exhibit in terms of praying to GOD and obeying his rules to the letter and intact, many good Muslims are by far better in conduct than many born again Christians.

I also know that as a good Muslim, the teachings of the Qur'an must be followed and i dare not insinuate that there might just be a mistake somewhere concerning the story in the Qur'an about the death of Jesus.

But this is the truth and i know it may not sound pleasing to many Muslims.

GOD seek a personal relationship with us all through Jesus and until you have this relationship with him, you cant have eternal bliss in aljonah and not just about the good things you do.

Can a man come to your house and ask you to allow him stay with you permanently if you don't know him? Even if he goes on telling you about how the people know him, saying e gives to the poor, never indulge in any sin and so on, you will still not grant him audience except it is someone you personally know.

This is the same situation with eternal life. Until you acknowledge the death of Jesus as an atonement for your sin, accept him as your Savior. Then and only then can you have a hope of eternal life.

NOW WAIT FOR A MOMENT

lets assume im crazy and all i have been writing is total bull shit but you still go ahead to accept Jesus as your savior then you die and realize that his death was a total facade. What do you have to lose? NOTHING.

But what if you die and realize that accepting him as your Savior was actually the best decision to make. Then you have a whole lot to gain and would save your soul from eternal damnation.

So why not hold your umbrella when you are not sure it may rain so that if it does not rain, you simply leave your umbrella folded and if it does rain, you already have your umbrella to shield you.

Think about this.

As Yoruba adage says. "Ki olorun ma se wa ni adorun mo oto" meaning may me not be part of thse who will only realise the truth after they die cos by then it will be too late.

Rubbish!!! Continue we shall see who follow the wrong and right path when you see the clear envidence I.e death

cleanvessel: My friend, you are interpreting the Bible wrongly.

interpreting Bible wrongly from your mouth, I believe you don't have anything to say or defend abt the truth I exposed.

cleanvessel: What I have given above is enough for you if you are a child of salvation.

Where is enough? Don't worry I will still expose more about your founder of ur religion.

However, if one examines the bible carefully, that person would observe that Paul and the disciples were not preaching the same doctrine and did not believe in the same Jesus.

The Apostles in Jerusalem heard that Paul has been preaching a different doctrine in Galatia and Corinthia. Paul was telling them not to follow the law anymore and that they don’t have to eat kosher meat anymore or to be circumcised (according to Genesis 17::14, the covenant is broken if there is no circumcision) etc. So the Apostles went to Galatia and Corinthia and convinced everyone that Paul is wrong, when Paul heard about this he went straight back to the cities………

 
Galatians 1:6

6. I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel

It says different Gospel, so obviously the disciples were teaching them a different doctrine and it was not just minor issues.

 
Galatians 2:11-21

Paul Opposes Peter

11. When Peter came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he was clearly in the wrong.
12. Before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group. ( why did people such as the Apostle James still believe that the law regarding food should still be applied? If Jesus came to replace the law, then why are they still following the law?)
13. The other Jews joined him in his hypocrisy, so that by their hypocrisy even Barnabas was led astray. (so, Peter, James and Barnabas are wrong?)

 14When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter in front of them all, "You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs?

15. We who are Jews by birth and not 'Gentile sinners'
16. know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.
( why are they arguing over following the law or not? Why are they not in agreement of doctrine?)

 17. "If, while we seek to be justified in Christ, it becomes evident that we ourselves are sinners, does that mean that Christ promotes sin? Absolutely not!
18. If I rebuild what I destroyed, I prove that I am a lawbreaker.
19. For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God.
20. I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
21. I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!

cleanvessel: You had better face you quran and stop dabling into the bible you don't have training about.

I have pity for you because you have deviated from what Jesus and disciples preached. Let me give you more maybe you will understand and stay away from falsehood.

Paul condemns all Jewish Christians including Peter and Barnabas. We only have Paul’s side of the story but Peter’s recollection of this story is not given to us in the New Testament.

Peter truly would have known Jesus better than Paul. There is dispute whether 1 Peter is a letter written by Peter and almost all scholars, ancient and modern agree that 2 Peter is not a letter written by Peter.

 Acts 4:31
31. After they prayed, the place where they were meeting was shaken. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke the word of God boldly.

If Peter was filled with the Holy Spirit then why is Paul calling Peter a hypocrite for eating with the Gentiles and then when people came from James he got up. James is Jesus’ half brother, he lived and stayed with Jesus. Why did he still think that people have to eat kosher meat? We don’t have any account of Peter’s story regarding this incident. Barnabas is also called a hypocrite in verse 13. Look how in verses 15 thought 17 Paul is arguing with them about the law. That means the disciples wanted to follow the law and suggested following it. Otherwise Paul wouldn’t have mentioned it. How could he say those things to Peter and look what Jesus said about Peter.

 Matthew 16:18
18. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.

Paul said in Romans that all food is clean.

 Romans 14:20
20. Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble.

In the Book of Acts the Apostles wrote a letter to the gentiles to abstain from certain foods and that not all foods were declared clean

Acts 15:29

29. You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell.

 

Galatians 3:1-3
1. You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified.
2. I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard?
3. Are you so foolish?

Obviously we have people that are disagreeing with him. If Jesus taught that the law is over clearly, then people would not be arguing over this.

2 Corinthians 11:4-5
4. For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.
5. But I do not think I am in the least inferior to those "super-apostles."

This is all doctrine and again he is criticizing the disciples.

 2 Corinthians 11: 22-24
What anyone else dares to boast about—I am speaking as a fool—I also dare to boast about.
22. Are they Hebrews? So am I. Are they Israelites? So am I. Are they Abraham's descendants? So am I. 23. Are they servants of Christ? (I am out of my mind to talk like this.) I am more. I have worked much harder, been in prison more frequently, been flogged more severely, and been exposed to death again and again.
24. Five times I received from the Jews the forty lashes minus one.

Again he is comparing himself to the disciples. If this man were truly doing all this work for God, he would not be complaining about his pain and torturing and suffering. If he is truly sincere he would not have mentioned those things. Prophets and messengers never complained and boasted about their sufferings.

cleanvessel: Your reports are very contradictory. I asked you to mention the names of Jesus disciples on purpose:
1. I want you to say for yourself who Jesus disciples were and you scored a pass mark by naming the correct twelve.

2. I am sure you know Nazarenes was not among the twelve disciples you mentioned. Who is Nazarenes? His account is not believable because he was not a disciple. Even though Paul was not among the twelve but we knew and accepted that he joined them later.

3. You also mentioned Avot 3:16. Who is Avot? His writing is not recorgnised as he was not a disciple.

5. You said John was martyred decades before the Gospel. Which John? Remember you mentioned John as one of the disciples. I say again, your report is nothing to write home about.

You want to use style to derail from the topic, I gave enough point how the doctrine of paul(anti-christ) was against the teaching of jesus christ, you kept silent on it without saying anything and talking on irrelevant issue of disciples.

cleanvessel: Even though Paul was not among the twelve but we knew and accepted that he joined them later.

Can you give me any verses where paul(anti-christ and founder of christianity) were later joined the disciples,

cleanvessel: ISRAEL AND THE GENTILES

It is true that Israel was God's chosen people. They were favoured by God. All the past prophets were from there up to the time of Jesus. Even the quran supports that Israel was a favoured people.

I don't want to derail from the topic I would have given you full detail how jesus was sent to the lost sheep of isreality

Prophet Jesus (as) is referred to as a Prophet of Galilee and not of the whole world by the ordinary folk in Matthew 21:11. It were the hypocrites like Paul who changed his mission to suit their needs.

"And the crowds said, 'This is the prophet Jesus of Nazareth of Galilee.'"

Jesus (as) is definitely greater than the disciples and his words are what matter most. If there is a contradiction, the disciples should be rejected on that matter!

 "And Jesus said to them, 'A prophet is not without honour, except in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house.'" (also in Matthew 13:57, Luke 4:24 and John 4:43

.

cleanvessel: Can you give us other hadiths where Muhammad started his statement with '' by the one whose hands my life is in''.

Volume 9, Book 93, Number 471:

Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:

A man heard another man reciting (in the prayers): 'Say (O Muhammad): "He is Allah, the One." (112.1) And he recited it repeatedly. When it was morning, he went to the Prophet and informed him about that as if he considered that the recitation of that Sura by itself was not enough. Allah's Apostle said, "By Him in Whose Hand my life is, it is equal to one-third of the Quran."

cleanvessel: 2. What are the teachings of Jesus?

3. What are the teachings of Paul?

4. Can you bring out the differences.

Follow Jesus or Follow Paul?

The New Testament gives us a choice; either we follow Jesus Christ, or the anti-Christ Paul of Tarsus: Each one demands his followers to accept his teachings:

Be ye followers of me… that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered [them] to you. (1 Corinthians 11:1)

“If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed” (John 8:31)

According to Deuteronomy 24:16, Ezekiel 18:20-21, and Micah 6:7-8, a man is responsible for his own sin. Jesus rejected the Pauline doctrine of “vicarious atonement”. Compare the two passages below:

And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission. (Hebrews 9:22)

Jesus was teaching his disciples in the outer court of the Temple and one of them said unto him: Master, it is said by the priests that without shedding of blood there is no remission. Can then the blood offering of the law take away sin? And Jesus answered: No blood offering, of beast or bird, or man, can take away sin, for how can the conscience be purged from sin by the shedding of innocent blood? Nay, it will increase the condemnation. (Gospel of the Nazorenes, Lection 33, verses 1-2)

cleanvessel: 2. What are the teachings of Jesus?

3. What are the teachings of Paul?

4. Can you bring out the differences.

Jesus was circumcised, Paul rejected circumcision:

This [is] my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised. And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant. (Genesis 17:14)

On the eighth day, when it was time to circumcise him, he was named Jesus, the name the angel had given him before he had been conceived. (Luke 2:21)

The Jewish Law commands the circumcision on the eighth day. The reason why Christians are not circumcised is because they follow Paul. They have broken the covenant of Circumcision according to Jesus himself (5:19)

For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love. (Galatians 5:6, KJV)

The Talmud states the following to those who break the Covenant:

"The one who voids the covenant of Abraham has no portion in the world to come (Avot 3:16).

Christians may not have any “portion in the world to come” because they have totally rejected the Message of Jesus, replacing the Gospel with the Gospel of Paul.

Jesus taught Salvation comes through Faith and Works, Paul distorted it:

Jesus taught salvation is attained by keeping the commandments, physical prayer, fasting, and observing the Law of Moses. Paul neglected these commands and distorted the Path to Salvation preached by Jesus.

Paul said that “salvation comes through faith and grace” which is exactly what the missionaries are saying today.

cleanvessel: 2. What are the teachings of Jesus?

3. What are the teachings of Paul?

4. Can you bring out the differences.

Jesus Forbade the Gentiles:

These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into [any] city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. (Matthew 10:5-6)

But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. (Matthew 15:24)

Paul rejected this command of NOT preaching to the Gentiles, they were restricted. Paul openly preached among the Gentiles, a totally different religion:

For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: (Romans 11:13

AND MANY MORE......


The New Testament was written under the influence of Paul, the four Gospel writers were Gentile converts to Pauline Christianity. Hence, there is nothing Jewish about the New Testament, it was solely written for Pauline Christians whose background was pagan.

The Hebrew Scriptures of the Nazarenes and Ebionites were destroyed by the Pauline Church. The original sayings of Jesus were lost forever. The New Testament today exists in Greek, and not Hebrew or Aramaic, the spoken tongues of Jesus.

The Gospel of Matthew seems to be the “most Jewish” book in the New Testament, 

Luke was a Gentile and not eye-witness

Mark was Barnabas’s nephew and not eye-witness

John was martyred decades before the Gospel (bearing his name) was even written.

Nevertheless, the four Gospels are NOT mentioned by name before the year 190 CE. We have scholarly quotations to back this claim.

The names of the 12 apostles were in Matthew 10:2-4, Mark 3:14-19, and Luke 6:13-16:

And when day came, he called his disciples and chose from them twelve, whom he named apostles: Simon, whom he named Peter, and Andrew his brother, and James and John, and Philip, and Bartholomew, and Matthew, and Thomas, and James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon who was called the Zealot, and Judas the son of James, and Judas Iscariot, who became a traitor. (ESV)

shdemidemi: Paul had the new gospel and a fresh revelation which the rest did not have.

Mr man, Paul was a liar, his doctrine was different from Jesus and disciples let me give you another detail maybe u will understand;
Now as he journeyed he approached Damascus, and suddenly a light from heaven flashed about him. And he fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?” And he said, “Who are you, Lord?” And he said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting; but rise and enter the city, and you will be told what you are to do. The men who were traveling with him stood speechless, hearing the voice but seeing no one.” (Acts 9:3-19; RSV)

Blinded by the light that he alone can see, Paul is sent to meet, Ananias. This disciple is to tell him of his mission and to heal Paul of his affliction.
These are purported to be Paul’s words as spoken to Luke. Paul offers witnesses, not by name, but by inference; “the men who were traveling with him.” The men are not named, we do not know who they might have been. They see nothing, but hear the voice.

We may assume many things, but can prove nothing. Chief among our objections to this report is clear. In the event of such an occurrence, including Jesus’ several experiences, witnesses are necessary.

shdemidemi: Paul had the new gospel and a fresh revelation which the rest did not have.

Even in Jesus’ baptism there are witnesses, John the Baptist and his disciples, which group included Andrew. There were also three ‘named’ witnesses to the transfiguration.

Throughout the history of the Bible, witnesses are provided who are named, and with whom we are familiar in the course of these events. Even Aaron is made part and party to the mission of Moses, spoken to by God and given the very words of God, (Exodus 4:15-16; RSV) as Moses received them in his vision of the burning bush. (Exodus 4:27-28)

shdemidemi: Paul had the new gospel and a fresh revelation which the rest did not have.

Later, Paul speaks again through Luke, and the vision experience changes.

“Now those who were with me saw the light but did not hear the voice of the one who was speaking to me.” (Acts 22:9-13; RSV)

This time the witnesses hear no voice but they see the light. Oddly enough, they are not blinded as Paul is reported to have been. The statement is, however, absolute and it contradicts Paul’s previous account. Here again, Paul is sent to Ananias to receive his ‘calling’ and a restoration of his sight.

Later still, when Paul addresses King Agrippa, the witnesses hear nothing, they see nothing. and the vision becomes Paul’s alone.

“At midday, O King, I saw on the way a light from heaven, brighter than the sun, shining round me and those who journeyed with me. And when we had all fallen to the ground, I heard a voice saying to me in the Hebrew language…” (Acts 26:13-14; RSV)

Hebrew, or Aramaic? It is irrelevant except to note that not only has this addition been made to the vision, but now the voice tells Paul what his task is to be. Ananias is forgotten, and nowhere does Paul state that he was blinded. Added also is the fact that this time, Paul claims that he sees the speaker

shdemidemi: haa bro, pls lets take everything one at a time. That post is quite long, if you don't mind ask one after the other, may be we would understand what truely transpired in the book.

Do you accept that paul preaching was against Jesus and disciple or you want me to give you proof from Historical Quotes Concerning Paul and his doctrines from Historians, Philosophers and Theologians:

That there were different amongst the Apostles and Paul. The Apostles stuck to the true teachings of Jesus, which was upholding the law and that the Apostles who lived with Jesus know him better than Paul who never even saw Jesus except in a "vision". The only deceiver here was Paul and not God

shdemidemi: Did Paul meet Jesus in his earthly ministry?

Christ said-
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

At this time you and I as gentiles were not part of the fold but before he died, some gentiles came to see him but Christ could not attend to them because he had to die for them to be saved--

22 Philip cometh and telleth Andrew: and again Andrew and Philip tell Jesus.

23 And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified.

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit

see how you gun yourself down, that verses was not meant for Paul

shdemidemi: Christ sent his disciples but they could not do the job. So, he came up with a man called Saul that was an enforcer of the law of Moses.

However, if one examines the bible carefully, that person would observe that Paul and the disciples were not preaching the same doctrine and did not believe in the same Jesus.

The Apostles in Jerusalem heard that Paul has been preaching a different doctrine in Galatia and Corinthia. Paul was telling them not to follow the law anymore and that they don’t have to eat kosher meat anymore or to be circumcised (according to Genesis 17::14, the covenant is broken if there is no circumcision) etc. So the Apostles went to Galatia and Corinthia and convinced everyone that Paul is wrong, when Paul heard about this he went straight back to the cities………

 
Galatians 1:6

6. I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel

It says different Gospel, so obviously the disciples were teaching them a different doctrine and it was not just minor issues.

 
Galatians 2:11-21

Paul Opposes Peter

11. When Peter came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he was clearly in the wrong.
12. Before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group. ( why did people such as the Apostle James still believe that the law regarding food should still be applied? If Jesus came to replace the law, then why are they still following the law?)
13. The other Jews joined him in his hypocrisy, so that by their hypocrisy even Barnabas was led astray. (so, Peter, James and Barnabas are wrong?)

 14When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter in front of them all, "You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs?

15. We who are Jews by birth and not 'Gentile sinners'
16. know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.
( why are they arguing over following the law or not? Why are they not in agreement of doctrine?)

 17. "If, while we seek to be justified in Christ, it becomes evident that we ourselves are sinners, does that mean that Christ promotes sin? Absolutely not!
18. If I rebuild what I destroyed, I prove that I am a lawbreaker.
19. For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God.
20. I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
21. I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!"

shdemidemi: Bro..read your Acts of Apostle, if you understand that book then you won't ask this sort of question.

Paul condemns all Jewish Christians including Peter and Barnabas. We only have Paul’s side of the story but Peter’s recollection of this story is not given to us in the New Testament.

Peter truly would have known Jesus better than Paul. There is dispute whether 1 Peter is a letter written by Peter and almost all scholars, ancient and modern agree that 2 Peter is not a letter written by Peter.

 Acts 4:31
31. After they prayed, the place where they were meeting was shaken. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke the word of God boldly.

If Peter was filled with the Holy Spirit then why is Paul calling Peter a hypocrite for eating with the Gentiles and then when people came from James he got up. James is Jesus’ half brother, he lived and stayed with Jesus. Why did he still think that people have to eat kosher meat? We don’t have any account of Peter’s story regarding this incident. Barnabas is also called a hypocrite in verse 13. Look how in verses 15 thought 17 Paul is arguing with them about the law. That means the disciples wanted to follow the law and suggested following it. Otherwise Paul wouldn’t have mentioned it. How could he say those things to Peter and look what Jesus said about Peter.

 Matthew 16:18
8And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.

Paul said in Romans that all food is clean.

 Romans 14:20
20Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble.

In the Book of Acts the Apostles wrote a letter to the gentiles to abstain from certain foods and that not all foods were declared clean

Acts 15:29

29. You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell.

 

Galatians 3:1-3
1. You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified.
2. I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard?
3. Are you so foolish?

Obviously we have people that are disagreeing with him. If Jesus taught that the law is over clearly, then people would not be arguing over this.

2 Corinthians 11:4-5
4. For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.
5. But I do not think I am in the least inferior to those "super-apostles."

This is all doctrine and again he is criticizing the disciples.

 2 Corinthians 11: 22-24
What anyone else dares to boast about—I am speaking as a fool—I also dare to boast about.
22. Are they Hebrews? So am I. Are they Israelites? So am I. Are they Abraham's descendants? So am I. 23. Are they servants of Christ? (I am out of my mind to talk like this.) I am more. I have worked much harder, been in prison more frequently, been flogged more severely, and been exposed to death again and again.
24. Five times I received from the Jews the forty lashes minus one.

Again he is comparing himself to the disciples. If this man were truly doing all this work for God, he would not be complaining about his pain and torturing and suffering. If he is truly sincere he would not have mentioned those things. Prophets and messengers never complained and boasted about their sufferings.

shdemidemi: As a christian, the scripture says we should follow Paul (not Peter,not James, Not John, not Jesus earthly ministry).

1 Corinthians 11:1
Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

Can you tell me where Jesus himself said you should follow Paul. So Paul is more than jesus and his disciples

manmacho: i can not argue with you, believe and twist whatever you want. the bible quote i put their are simple to understand.

pls. note; they are not paul words but John the beloved that is what i quoted

Who was the founder of christianity? Was it Jesus or Paul?
Can you tell me that the teaching of Paul was not against the teaching of Jesus(as)

However, if u examine the bible carefully, u would observe that Paul and the disciples were not preaching the same doctrine and did not believe in the same Jesus.

cleanvessel: @ ayenny02
You have proved to the readers that your religion is a FRAUD. Islam is about falsifying the word of God by changing what He says.

I said ''all your statements are good but for a joke'' but when you wanted to quote me you said: ''all your statements are good. Does that convey the same message? That is exactly what quran does - deliberately misquoting God's words, an attribute of Satan.

If you have any reasonable thing to contribute why not say it or stay away

cleanvessel: You muslim guys are very funny. All your statements are good

Thank God you know the truth

cleanvessel: 1. None of the people in the bible prayed like the muslims. No one completee the ablution process. No washing of mouth, noise ear etc and no facing kabah. It is all a lie. A Christian can take any position to pray, including prostrating, lying facing up or down.

2. Muslims way of praying is a continuation of moo-god worship. They way the muslims pray today is the same way Muhammad met his family praying before he turned it to islam. Moon is the symbol of islam because it is a worship of the moon-god. Everything about islam is about moon including the ramadan fasting. I know your common excuse is that moon is Gods creation. Every instrument the devil use is created by God.

3. How then do you in your imagination think Jesus will come for idol worshipers the muslims are. It is a pity the devil made you believe you are worshiping God but it will be too late before you will realize it. Even ifa (an idol in yoruba) faithfuls too believe they are worshiping Olodumare (God).

Off topic............if you have anything in mind go and open your thread and challenge

cleanvessel: 4. You guys say you honour Jesus by praying for him. Do you think he is Muhammad that was pleading for prayers because he was not sure of his destination after death? Who are you to pray for Jesus in heaven? Sinners praying for the saint. It is amusing. Your prayer for the death muslims cannot work, it is share ignorance. If prayer works for the dead, nobody will go to hell.

Sorry

manmacho: 1 John 2:21-23
So who is lying here? It’s the person who denies that Jesus is the Divine Christ, that’s who. This is what makes an antichrist: denying the Father, denying the Son. No one who denies the Son has any part with the Father, but affirming the Son is an embrace of the Father as well.

You don't get it my brother, the meaning of anti-christ is anybody that deny the teaching of Jesus, that person will be a liar and a deceiver.

Before you can get the meaning of anti-christ very well, you must understand the meaning of CHRISTIANITY, was it from Jesus himself or his disciples or others, so from there you will understand who are the anti-christ btw christianity and islam religion

manmacho: 1 John 4:2-3
Here’s how you test for the genuine Spirit of God. Everyone who confesses openly his faith in Jesus Christ—the Son of God, who came as an actual flesh-and-blood person—comes from God and belongs to God. And everyone who refuses to confess faith in Jesus has nothing in common with God. This is the spirit of antichrist that you heard was coming. Well, here it is, sooner than we thought!
1 John 4:1-3

Let me help you to shield more light on it maybe you will understand what I mean

Historical Quotes Concerning anti-christ and his doctrines from Historians, Philosophers and Theologians:


“If Christianity needed an Anti-Christ, they need look no further than Paul”

-- The English philosopher Jeremy Bentham (1748-1832)

 “We have already noted that every teaching of Jesus was already in the literature of the day….. Paul, the founder of Christianity, the writer of half the NT, almost never quotes Jesus in his letters and writings." (Professor Smith in his “The World Religions”, p 330)

“Paul created a theology of which none but the vaguest warrants can be found in the words of Christ…..Fundamentalism is the triumph of Paul over Christ.”
--Will Durant (Philosopher)

 

manmacho: This is the spirit of antichrist that you heard was coming. Well, here it is, sooner than we thought!
1 John 4:1-3

"Paul's words are not the Words of God. They are the words of Paul- a vast difference."
--Bishop John S. Spong, Episcopal Bishop of Newark. (Rescuing the Bible from Fundamentalism, p. 104, Harper San Francisco, 1991)


"Paul insists that there is only one 'gospel of Christ' (Galatians 1:7), so why did later Christians accept as 'Scripture' four written gospels?"
--Graham N. Stanton, “The Gospels and Jesus”, The Oxford Bible Series (1989), p.125


"Paul was the great Coryphaeus, and first corrupter of the doctrines of Jesus."

(Thomas Jefferson, The Great Thoughts by George Sildes, Ballantine Books, New York, 1985, p.208)
 

"Where possible he (Paul) avoids quoting the teaching of Jesus, in fact even mentioning it. If we had to rely on Paul, we should not know that Jesus taught in parables, had delivered the sermon on the mount, and had taught His disciples the 'Our Father.' Even where they are specially relevant, Paul passes over the words of the Lord."

(Albert Schweitzer, The Mysticism of Paul the Apostle, p. 171)

Mr anony: This is what the Trinity means in short form

3. The Son is God



I challenge anyone to produce any bible verse/verses that refutes the above statements. And please when you do, point out which of the statements you are trying to refute and how your bible verses refutes it/them.

"Son of God" is the same as "Servant of God" in Hebrew!

God speaks to the nation as though he were a single person. Israel is, in fact, God's son (Exod 4:22 Deut 14:1 Jer 31:9 Hosea 11:1)

Israel's Father nurtures him to grow up and become a worshiping servant (Exod 4:23 — "Let my son go that he may serve me"."

New King James Version
Acts 3:25 - You are the sons of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying to Abraham, 'And in your seed all the families of the earth shall be blessed.

Acts 3:26 - To you first, God, having raised up His Servant Jesus, sent Him to bless you, in turning every one of you away from his iniquities

COMPARE IT
King James Version
Acts 3:25 - Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

Acts 3:26 - Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities

Mr anony: This is what the Trinity means in short form


4. The Holy Spirit is God

11. God is one being and three persons.


I challenge anyone to produce any bible verse/verses that refutes the above statements. And please when you do, point out which of the statements you are trying to refute and how your bible verses refutes it/them.

I await your responses

HOLY SPIRIT AND HOLY GHOST MEAN ANGEL GABRIEL
Matthew 1:18
18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

Compare now with Luke 1:26-27
26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,

27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.

Mattew mentioned holy ghost and luke mentioned the angel gabriel, so the HOLY GHOST is then the ANGEL GABRIEL

Mr anony: This is what the Trinity means in short form

11. God is one being and three persons.


I await your responses

From my explanation above God is ONE not three person
Thks

Antichrist

The name "antichrist" is only found in 1 John 2:18, 2:22, 4:3, and 2 John 7. The Apostle John was the only Bible writer to use the name antichrist.

Studying these verses, we learn that many antichrists (false teachers) will appear between the time of Christ's first and Second Coming, but there will be one great antichrist who will rise to power during the end times, or "last hour," as 1 John phrases it.

He will deny the teaching of Jesus, He will be a liar and a deceiver.

WHO IS AN ANTI-CHRIST BETWEEN ISLAM AND CHRISTIANITY

pointblank 321: All your Bible quotations are out of context. You did not take into consideration what is said before and after the statements. You also did not take into account the event that gave rise to the statements. In other words, your defence is invalid. The stereo-typed answers you post were not well researched.

But are you saying your prophet didn't know what he was saying? Okay, I can see, you are more knowledgeable than the prophet. That is very good of you.

Bbbllllaaaabbbbbbllllaaaaa...........................NO POINT

Ayomivic: If Jesus did not know the word Christianity, i believe he knows his deciples and his followers and they were the one he promised he would come back for

Jesus preached to follow the Law:

"Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:17-20)

Say: "O People of the Book! ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord." It is the revelation that cometh to thee from thy Lord, that increaseth in most of them their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy. But sorrow thou not over (these) people without Faith. (Al-Quran, 5:68)

If only they had stood fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that was sent to them from their Lord, they would have enjoyed happiness from every side. There is from among them a party on the right course: but many of them follow a course that is evil. (Al-Quran 5:66)

From those, too, who call themselves Christians, We did take a covenant, but they forgot a good part of the message that was sent them: so we estranged them, with enmity and hatred between the one and the other, to the day of judgment. And soon will Allah show them what it is they have done. (Al-Quran 5:14

Ayomivic: .so you too can tell us the religion of his deciples.

Jesus orders Christians to follow the Law of Moses in the Old Testament: 

"Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.  I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.  (Matthew 5:17-18)" 

It is quite clear from these verses from the New Testament that Jesus peace be upon him did honor the Old Testament and did say that every single "letter" of it has to be honored, followed and fulfilled.

The verses of Matthew 23:1-3 "Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 'The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat.  So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.' 
We clearly see in these verses that Jesus peace be upon him did not prohibit for the Old Testament to be followed,

Ayomivic: Are they Jews or Muslims or Christian? You know the answer

This is the question you should have asked me when jesus himself didn't know the word Christianity

As Jesus did not prohibit the law of the old testament;

FROM BIBLE THEY BELIEVED IN ONE GOD AS MUSLIM DO

Mark 12:29 Jesus said "Here, O Israel:  The Lord our God is one Lord."   The words "our God" indicate that Jesus had a higher God over him, a stronger God than him.  Jesus didn't say "Your God".  He said "our God" which includes Jesus as the creation of GOD


FROM OLD TESTAMENT THEY WORSHIPED GOD AS MUSLIM DO

Nehemiah 8:4-6
4 And Ezra the scribe stood upon a pulpit of wood, which they had made for the purpose; and beside him stood Mattithiah, and Shema, and Anaiah, and Urijah, and Hilkiah, and Maaseiah, on his right hand; and on his left hand, Pedaiah, and Mishael, and Malchiah, and Hashum, and Hashbadana, Zechariah, and Meshullam.

5 And Ezra opened the book in the sight of all the people; (for he was above all the people and when he opened it, all the people stood up:

6 And Ezra blessed the Lord, the great God. And all the people answered, Amen, Amen, with lifting up their hands: and they bowed their heads, and worshipped the Lord with their faces to the ground.


FROM JESUS HIMSELF:

Matthew 26:36-44
36. Then Jesus went with his disciples to a place called Gethsemane, and he said to them, "Sit here while I go over there and pray."
37. He took Peter and the two sons of Zebedee along with him, and he began to be sorrowful and troubled.
38. Then he said to them, "My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. Stay here and keep watch with me."
39. Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will."
40. Then he returned to his disciples and found them sleeping. "Could you men not keep watch with me for one hour?" he asked Peter.
41. "Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the body is weak."
42. He went away a second time and prayed, "My Father, if it is not possible for this cup to be taken away unless I drink it, may your will be done."
43. When he came back, he again found them sleeping, because their eyes were heavy.
44. So he left them and went away once more and prayed the third time, SAYING THE SAME THING.


JESUS SAID TO SATAN TOO TO WORSHIP ONLY GOD
Matthew 4:10
10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.


PLEASE TELL ME WITH OPEN MIND HOW MANY CHRISTIAN WERE PRACTISED THESE AND YOU ARE EXPECTING JESUS WITHOUT FOLLOW THE LAW OF JESUS

pointblank 321: @ayenny02: I notice you always skip important points and hammer the unimportant ones. What do you see to Muhammad referring to Jesus as his Lord/God in the hadith you quoted? The One (God) who holds Muhammad's life. Thank God it is in English not arabic, everybody can read and understand. JESUS IS LORD EVEN TO MUHAMMAD.

So you want to use style to derail from the topic, I have asked you many question and you refused to answer it, I will advice to you to cool down to read the hadith very well becos I can see you u r shaking

Prophet Mohammad (saw)said, "By the one whose hands my life is in, surely the Son of  Mary(as) will descend amongst you as a just ruler."

Just clear statement that he said "by the one who own his soul I.e God and continue with the statement that surely jesus will descend amongst muslim as a just ruler

pointblank 321: @ayenny02:
Please how do honour Jesus in islam? Your saying that Jesus is a prophet like other prophets has be been refuted by Muhammad himself.

One of our way we honour him is that we pray to him whenever his name is mentioned by saying ALAYHIM SALAM WA SALAM

pointblank 321: @ayenny02:
Since Jesus hold our lives, muslims inclusive, you better turn to Him. Muhammad cannot save himself talk less of others. Muhammad himself will account for his life in front of Jesus. I'm sure you know Jesus is not among the people crossing from hell to paradise, which Muhammad will lead. Jesus is a ruler in heaven not the ruled. I advise you stop your posts and defence for islam that does not offer salvation to anybody.

There is no saviour besides GOD:

I, [even] I, [am] the LORD; and beside me [there is] no saviour. (Isaiah 43:11)

Yet I [am] the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for [there is] no saviour beside me. (Hosea 13:4)

And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour. (Luke 1:47)

These verses refute the Christian phrase “Jesus is my lord and saviour”. There is no Saviour besides Yahweh! Jesus never claimed to be “Lord and Saviour” to the Jews. He explicitly said “I do not accept praise from men” (John 5:41) “In vain do they worship me” (Matthew 15:9, Mark 7:7) and “The Father is greater than I” (John 14:28) etc

Ayomivic: Jesus is coming back for real christian.they were the one he promised to come for

Let not your heart be troubled believe in God believe also in me.in my father house are many mansions if it were not so,i would have told you i go to prepare a place for you (christian).And if i go and prepare a place for you i will come again, and receive you unto myself that where i am, there you may be also.And whither i go you know,AND THE WAY YOU KNOW. (John 14:1-4)

John 14:1-4
14 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know

WHERE DID JESUS MENTION "CHRISTIAN" IN THAT VERSES YOU QUOTED (LIAR)

Ayomivic: Did Jesus die for you? If he did not die for you he can't come for you for you are not part of sheep.

Jesus' death is a violation of the clear OT commands prohibiting human sacrifices. Since Jesus was also under the Law (Gal. 4:4), his death would be an express violation of the commands of God which did not allow for humans to be put to death, only animals.

Ayomivic: As per the religion Jesus will follow when he comes back, Jesus would not follow any religion because he is greater than any religion.When he comes, the people who obeyed his teaching and his warning would follow him.These people are christians,(people like christ) ,they are saints, they are sons and daughter of God, they are beloved .

Chairman don't talk without proof, pls give me verses where Jesus said he will come for the christians when jesus himself don't know the word "Christianity" in bible

pointblank 321: @ayenny02: You are quoting me out of context. I said Jesus is coming for his church, the body of Christ who he died for and that the Christians are the members of his church. If you are not a member, he is not coming for you.

Can you give me Verses from the Bible where Jesus himself said so

pointblank 321: @ayenny02:
You do not know the interpretation of spiritual words. Yes, no more cross. Jesus is coming to establish a government of 1000 years and not a religion. Only members of his church will be there, others will be thrown into hell. Pig is the figurative appearance of the Devil. The hadith is not talking about food or meat. It is talking about the coming of Jesus. He is coming to destroy the pig (the Devil).

So you are trying to explain the hadith to me abi?

pointblank 321: @ayenny02:
One God. Muslims can not woo Jesus with one-God issue. Judaism too teaches one-God. If one-God is what is needed for salvation, Jesus would not have come becos he met them practicing one-God. If the Jew could not attract Jesus with one-God, muslims cannot.

The purpose of Jesus was to preach the Jewish Law Matthew 5:17-20

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven

Please can you give me verses where jesus said you should not follow the law

Ayomivic: Christian, of course

What do you see to the topic, I want to see your own idea. Which religion Jesus will practice when he comes back?

Ayomivic: @ayenny02 Now,let me address the cunning tittle you people give to yourself.'MUSLIMS' If you are asked the meaning of muslim i know you will say it mean total 'submission to God' am i correct? Ok if 'Muslim' mean submissive, we all know that the word 'Muslim' (submissive) is nothing but 'tittle' as the word 'Christian' wich mean people like christ. It is a descriptive tittle that has nothing no power to change person's characters. If you are bearing Mr Gold does that mean you are created with gold? Or you are in possession of gold?it may not mean that

If Muslim are using the tittle( muslim) as their good, does that mean every body who bear the tittle (muslim) will go to heaven include boko boys who killed innocent people. If you say they are not muslims,they themself believe they are muslim and what they are doing are right.Also Jesus christ was a perfect man with that we can say he was suabmissive to God.Christian mean people like christ,if christians are like christ then that mean they are submissive to God too.

If muslim want to claim they are submissive to God because they are fasting,observed salat,they are pilgrimage,they give sakat.How many prophet observe salat or being a pligrimage before they can be submissive to God.

Pls muslims should stop using ordnary tittle to deceive people,God would not judge us by what we call ourself,but he would judge us by what we are because he knows the mind of man.

What can we benefit from your story and is that answer to my question..............off topic

Ayomivic: it seems you don't know what you are saying.if Jesus is coming for muslims what would Asaaju-Eda Baba Fatimon would be doing? or is he no longer Asaju Eda? You know the way but you will not follow it.

Before I can answer your question which religion you belong to?

pointblank 321: @ayenny02: You are too conscious of religion as a muslim. God is not interested in religion. The Jews were so good in religious activities yet they were wrong and that was why Jesus came. I don't think the muslims are better than the Pharisees in religious services, still Jesus condemned their religion. Jesus did not lay any emphasis on religion but following him. Following his teachings.

I asked you a simple question you can't answer it. You said Jesus did not recognised or practised the christianity as a religion,YES I agreed with that, and jesus came for one purpose and teaching;

Jesus in the Bible guaranteed Paradise to non-Trinitarians. 

Jesus a second time confirmed that the Law of Moses is the way to "Eternal Life".

The book of Ezekiel and the Old Testament clearly and directly refutes the "Salvation through trinity" lie!

Jesus in John 17:4 further clarifies the Salvation concept and refutes the "closed-minded" Christians.

Can you tell me the core belief of Christianity then that relate to the teaching of Jesus Christ?

pointblank 321: @ayenny02:

You people give honour to Muhammad and have no connection with Jesus. Do you mention Jesus in your routine prayers or religious activities. Is it not when you want to argue you remember him. How do expect him to come for you? It is certain that he will not come for muslims who are on the same path with those who constituted themselves as the enemies of his mission on earth.

We honour Prophet Jesus more than anybody in this world.
I will give you one hadith about the coming of jesus christ and I want you to bring any authoritative reference that Jesus is coming for you christian:

Abu Huraira  reported that Prophet Mohammad (saw)said, "By the one whose hands my life is in, surely the Son of  Mary(as) will descend amongst you as a just ruler. He will destroy the cross (this could mean that Jesus will put a final end to Christianity), kill the pig (meaning Jesus will outlaw raising pigs) and abolish the Jizya (this tax on Christians & Jews will be abolished because Christianity and Judaism will end.)."   (Sahih Bukhari)

Don't forget you said the christianity was not the religion of jesus christ so his second coming will help you to destroy it

pointblank 321: @ayenny02:

Maybe you have another Jesus that is coming for the muslims but certainly not Jesus Christ of Nasareth.

Yes Jesus (as) is coming for the muslims who believe in One God, and worship the true One God or are you christians worshiped One God?