I hardly laugh at the islam section.


Thanks for the laughs and psychoanalysis, Felis and Betathings.

BetaThings:

I think about my religion - how to know more, be better at the mandatory, interact better with family, muslims, friends, and society at large
But I have no regard for the thinking abilities of atheists. They have missed the basics. (Let us not waste time debating it - that decision is set in stone, although name-calling and abuses will be gladly received). So your wanting me to think about anything actually smacks of excessive indulgence in self adulation

lol......I'm waiting for Justaqad to come and handle you.

fellis:

What? Logicboy is Babadeen? From Abdulsleek to Saluman to Babadeen? How does he even come up with these names?
Lol. This Logicboy you be real madman

Omg......lmao......I didnt even think about that.......so funny.


The names are all mixtures of how I feel and islamic names.

Tbaba + Deen = Babadeen

Abdul + Sleeky = Abdulsleek

Suleiman = Saluman

manmustwac: Your not serious I should have banned both of you for dersiling topic. I created this thread for you two in the date and meet up section so you can continue your babes gist https://www.nairaland.com/1217855/ooman-meets-striklyml

BetaThings:

As you wish

Dont worry, I know you peeps are afraid of the ominous presence towards religion that atheists represent.

Ever since the Abdulsaleek incident, muslims like you have been checking profiles of all kaffir posters to look for an agenda. There was even one Abdul (a real muslim) that innocently came for help and people were calling him Abdulsleek.


If my agenda was to cause disharmony on Nairaland muslim section, I must have succeeded.


Unfortunately, I am not a bigot and that is not my agenda. My presence here is simple; I want people to think hard about their religion. I'm an open book, I dont lie about my views about islam or religion. I praise islam where it is due (eg Zakat, Ramadan food and its early contribution to science in the golden age) and I criticise islam.


Check all my posts and they are consistent- my views on islam and wife beating, slavery, marriage to non muslims, freedom of speech etc.

Not even Tbaba can argue that he has been consistent on this forum. I know, I debunked him long ago.



However, I do wonder if some muslims here really believe that I'm Shaytan or a Jinn is controlling me to do these things- you never know, anything is possible when one has faith.

Ihedinobi:

Yeah, you'd like me to give up, wouldn't you? Sorry to disappoint you but Resurrection runs in my family. Our firstborn wouldn't even stay dead when he got killed.

That was dry.

Ihedinobi: ^^^ Omo, this ya fight wit Christ is gonna cost you all your marbles yet

You have/had/will never have any arguments of worth until you let the Light into your heart. And in our exchange earlier on this matter, you did absolutely zilch on building any kind of equality or replaceability between predestination and foreknowledge. All you did was insist and assert that omniscience cancels out free will, or in other words, that foreknowledge is the same as predestination.

Mazaje's own issue is actually quite simple, I simply had no taste for repeating Mr Anony's arguments which I completely buy into. If that offends your sensibilities, what can I say, I don't give a damn, buddy.

Oh, and you really need never introduce yourself. Your intelligence, or more accurately the lack of it, announces itself before you type.

Just give up, you have been nailed harder than Jesus on this thread.

bukatyne:

You got this from my post?

Mac, We don't serve the same God so you have no idea what the right 'conceptual framework' of my God is.

ouch

Wet dream is now a spiritual problem?

If I say that you people are foolish, some moderator would want to ban me.


Mtchew

Ihedinobi: @wiegraf, are you perhaps better equipped to explain how omniscience negates free will? I'm still failing to see it. I've heard that assertion so much that it's giving me headaches. Do you have some kind of clear, coherent argument to back it up?

Logicboy here

After I and other atheists have made coherent arguments repeatedly about the contradiction between freewill/foreknowledge/omniscience, you push it aside and claim that we are only making assertions.



Thank Gawd it is a wll recognised problem within philosophy, so at the end of the day, we all can see the liar/ignoramus that Ihedinobi is.

Here is a link to stanford encyclopedia of philosophy that explains this problem in detail;
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/free-will-foreknowledge/



--------------------------------


Here are also the coherent arguments from atheists about freewill vs omniscience that Ihedinobi dismssed as incoherent assertions;

Logicboy03:


Thank you for being honest.

I like the analogy of a movie. However, you interpret it wrongly.

Your argument actually shows the absurdity of freewill and an omniscient God.


You say it is like watching a movie the second time, in which the viewer knows all the choices that the movie characters will make. The problem is that the movie characters arent making any choices. Their choices are an illusion. They are following a set script and a set path. There is no freewill in the movie for the characters.


Just as in real life. If god has seen our future and knows how/when we will die in the future, we are only following a set path. Our choices are an illusion because god know what we will do. There is no freewill

Kay 17:

IF a man is faced with two paths A and B, by predestination or by God's foreknowledge the man takes A. Now what if he got to know of God's foreknowledge of the path A he was to take and deliberately decides to take B, rendering God's omniscience nugatory??

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------



By the time I am done with Ihedinobi and Anony, they will have zero credibility left. Dubious apologists. See how Majaze even embarrassed them for dodging a simple question that was problematic to their position (it happenned on page 57)
https://www.nairaland.com/1198534/cowardice-atheism/57#14626402

musKeeto:

Funny, if the theists do this, we (well I would) call them mad and ask that they be locked up in the closest sanitarium for psychiatric evaluation.

Anyways, I'm more interested in the 'assumptions' Inesqor made reference to.

That is not an objection to such a problem. The problem is that their belief is mad- claiming that we would lock them up as mad men if they followed their belief doesnt change the fact that the belief is mad.

ooman: GOD CREATED THE HORRORS OF HELL, HE SHOULD FIND A WAY TO LET EVERYONE KNOW ABOUT HIM IN A WELL CONVINCING WAY RATHER THAN EXPECT US TO WORSHIP HIM ON BLIND FAITH

Can you imagine that God left his message to be carried to Nigeria by slave traders?


So christian slave traders that repent will go to heaven while the shackled, whipped and rap.ed ancestors of ours that died pagan will go to hell.



Mtchew, our forefathers will be turning in their graves

BetaThings:

Thanks for your understanding. I am sorry that I did not further your agenda on this thread. Maybe on another thread, I will allow you to lead me by the nose

Agenda? Lol.....If I truly had an agenda dont you think it has worked already?

striktlymi:


Atheism is not a new concept. It has been right from the time when men became gods in ancient Greece and yet the world has not turn Atheist in total.

The projection given is in my opinion baseless. I really would like to know what informed this controversial projection. Note that Atheism is older than Christiantity.

See this ignoramus? Lmao....atheism started from greece? Atheism started from the first people that lived. Nobody was born believing in gods.

There are even older accoints of atheism in Asia as well.


However, atheism is universal and everywhere- even some of your ancestors didnt believe in the gods of the people

BetaThings:

We are not united. I agree.
Thank you for giving up. Peace at last!

Which peace? You that came to this thread to fight Lagoshia and his Shia doctrine.

The part that even pissed me off was where maclatunji told you to ignore Lagoshia as if you contributed anything to this thread. At least Lagoshia was here trying to explain wife beating and other issues before you came.


SMH.......I'll leave you to your "peaceful" attacks on the shia and the "moderating" moderate Mod

striktlymi:

For your info I am no apologist!

You are a poor apologist.

Dont live in denail.

What do you think you do when you are defending christianity on many atheist threads?

striktlymi:

If you know what communism is, you would realise that no country has attained that state before. Anyways let me focus on Atheists who seem to know what they are talking about.

that makes no sense. Care to explain?

Jesus actually ran mad as the atheist suggested

-He went around with 12 men and no income, peaching (the son of man has no hole to lay his head)
-He sacrificed himself (suicide) to make people learn about forgiveness


The atheist has a point, the bible is a sick horror story. Just imagine for once that hell is real and the monster called Yaweh will send good bhuddists, atheists, pagans etc to the torture chamber called hell where his fallen angel can cast unspeakable horrors while they burn in hell.


It does matter if the pagan or atheist is good like Ghandi or Wole Soyinka, he will be kept in the same lake of fire as a murderer or r.apist.


Very chiling to think that this is what many christians think

striktlymi:

You don't even know what communism is.

lol........wow, after shouting that people are making fallacies up and down, you come here with this ad hominem/unfounded assumption about me?


This same tool that doesnt have a clue about the state atheism that he is writing about

striktlymi:

#Ignored!!!

Ignoring the truth

At least, it would be clear to other christians the lies that some apologists like you need to tell to bash atheism

ooman:

You and i both know that war and violence are not constant. Atheists are pacifists, maybe the older generation got it wrong but the new generation will get it right.

We will not even need to persuade people anymore, so many are now realizing that religion leads no where and are becoming atheists. before long, everyone will willingly become atheists, even you.!!

lol....there is no such thing as state atheism. These christians will distort history to bash atheism. They take the anti-religious ideology of communism to mean state atheism. Just call it communism

striktlymi:

I guess you haven't heard cause the term is really not common. See below:


State atheism is the official promotion of atheism by a government, sometimes combined with active suppression of religious freedom and practice. In contrast, a secular state purports to be officially neutral in matters of religion, supporting neither religion nor irreligion. State atheism may refer to a government's anti-clericalism, which opposes religious institutional power and influence in all aspects of public and political life, including the involvement of religion in the everyday life of the citizen.
State promotion of atheism as a public norm was first practiced during a brief period in Revolutionary France. Since then, such a policy was repeated only in Revolutionary Mexico and some communist states. The Soviet Union had a long history of state atheism, in which social success largely required individuals to profess atheism and stay away from houses of worship; this attitude was especially militant during the middle Stalinist era from 1929–1939. The Soviet Union attempted to suppress public religious expression over wide areas of its influence, including places such as central Asia.

Ref: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_atheism

Read my comment again and you will find that I have come across the term but it is a meaningless term in history and context.


I have read the biased wikipedia page long a ago.


I repeat, you'd be hard pressed to find a government outside communist regimes that you can find as state atheism

[size=18pt]
You didnt read the biased wikipedia article
-The wikipedia article wrongly lists a french revolution which was partly against the church as state atheism which is wrong as it was never an atheist state
-The wikipedia lists Mexico's anti-catholicism/church revolution as state atheism while failing to not that it did nothing to pagan traditions of indenious people and it was only against the church[/size]

BetaThings:

The fundamentals unite us. For instance on wife-beating, there are at least two highly revered scholars who never got married. And since many bachelors/spinsters "teach" the subject of marriage on the net, I don't dabble into it because positions are often unrealistic

lol.....and your married clerics on youtube that preach wife beatings vs the ones that preach against it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChnpaMK1oLQ


The fights between Sunni and shia.


You are not united


I give up. This denial is the hallmark of the Nairaland faithful. Even as diverse as atheists are on opinions/principle, we are as no were a fragmented as divided as you lot.


I give up. Even the division on this thread is for all to see.


I like how Maclatunji uses the phrase "he that is down"


Unfortunately, he doesnt realise the one that is truly down and living in an eternal denial

striktlymi:

State Atheism!

There is no such thing as state atheism. You mean communism.

After reading a lot of biased accounts of history, I can gather this conclusion.

Youd be hard pressed to find an example outside a communist state

striktlymi:

Yes it does! He claimed that his conclusion can be attributed to "most" Atheists and religious. It is left for him to demonstrate how that comment holds true from his experience. Otherwise he would just be committing a very common fallacy.

From his experience? He clearly stated from that it is from his experience. He never said that it was 100% consistent fact

You are empty

striktlymi:

How many Atheists or religious people do you know?

Always looking for fallacies where there are none.

You dont even have to believe his experience, just look at many atheistic countries and compare them with religious ones

maclatunji:

He who is down fears no fall.

Abeg, Pete Edochie is an igbo christian man.

BetaThings:

Oh, I do joke and enjoy jokes. But there are some things I am not allowed to joke about.

Since we are on our good sides today, please answer this question;

Looking at this thread, how can you have faith in islam, when I, an atheist, can cause so much disruption between muslims- pro-wife beating vs non-wife beating; shia vs sunni etc.?

You could try to do this to atheists by starting up a thread about an ex-atheist leaving for islam but the replies you will get might be from different perspectives never contradictory.

BetaThings:

Thanks. I have done so
But seriously, be true to yourself. You don't need these underhand tactics

For once, you responded well to a joke.

deols:

we can still be friends though.

babadeen over macdaddy anyday

lmao