₦airaland Forum

aezenkwu:
Location; Onitsha but can send it to ur mama kitchen as far live exist there. Note 9 pro 6+64gb 110k 6+128gb 120k
Note 9 3+64gb 82000 4+128gb 90000
Note 9s 4+64gb 88k 6+128gb 98k
Note 8
4+64gb 75k 4+128gb 84k 3+32gb 70k
Redmi 8
4+64gb 60k 3+ 32gb 55 k
All slightly negotiable
Call or chat me on 07037890136 let's deal

hehehe... My desired Note 9 pro na 120k
Aliexpress, here I come

Paruz1015:
Really wow, well looking at the Note 8 pro and the note 9s/pro, I don't think there's even an upgrade from the note 8 pro.

So right now, I better stick with and enjoy my Note 8 pro �

enjoy your device man. You don't need to search desperately for reasons to stick with your phone. The RN8 pro is a solid device and hasn't even been around up to a year. Some people are still using the RN4 (and RN5) and don't plan to upgrade yet.

The RN9 pro is a definite upgrade on the RN8 pro though. Small improvements in many areas that go beyond just SD 720G vs Helio G90T.

AududuNine11:
Na the price be the wahala...

They shouldn't have mentioned any price during the launching then.... Comparing the price during launching to the current price, 88,900 to 103k, it's a bit heart breaking

they probably didn't expect our naira to become and remain near-worthless so quickly.

Everyone should better start praying for the Naira to regain health, else, this is the new normal for everything imported.

genius43:
RN9, RN9s and RN9 Pro are in the country. We were not ready.

This is double shocker

as in eh...

Nice thing I didn't make that Jumia order. That would be a 3-week wait at the very least.

anonymousey:
Computer village. Unfortunately they open Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays

it's not that unfortunate. No be Monday here? Plus computer village isn't that far from where I am.

anonymousey:
Seriously? Been getting different prices o. what I heard is more than that.

Plus the pro is also available

Redmi note 9 pro? Where bro?

ladykilllar:
Where are you boss? Bahddo

A sales rep i know might be having what we want on Monday

Location is computer Village in Ikeja. But. Will keep you posted anyways.

Anything reasonable from your own end?

damn... Nothing o. Everyone I know seems to be expecting only the 9s. How do I reach you ma'am? Are you on Telegram?

Update: Nevermind, just saw your signature.

busuyi44:
Which one is this 8+ or 8P+?

8p+

GrandMufti:
Buy her something cheap

it won't protect her phone sha. Babies usually prefer the one you are always holding. Would be even worse as they learn to crawl and walk - nothing is safe

shollish:
So which one is useful

you dey mind am. 2 years after I got my MacBook pro, the battery has deteriorated. It barely lasts while on and drains even while off.

Maybe I should start a campaign against Apple for a battery that has gone through inevitable deterioration, instead of trying to get a battery replacement at their service center?

You guys have the time to reply him sha.

jboixxx:
[color=#0000ff]Wait till the next day after you must have placed your order to get the better deal na. I'll just collect your 1st order [/color]

collect ni

Jemerson:
Negotiate with who? DHL?

DHL dey sell phone for your village?

Negotiate is really not the right word . Couldn't remember the term the Jumia agents use. Help find (or locate or discover) a better deal than what I can currently see. I have a feeling there would be better deals the next day after I place an order

bamac:
One of my fav thread is back, I rejoice wholeheartedly.

Please guys, remember to make your redmi phone purchase on Jumia through me, don't wait till issue surfaces till you contact me like many are doing, I am paid on order completed not issue resolved... If it is through me and there is issue I can guarantee resolution with my last breath.

Kindly check my signature to contact me.

can you help negotiate cheaper deals than what is offered by Jumia Global stores? Specifically for the Redmi Note 9 pro. It's currently 116k for the 6/128gb on the only store selling it.

cynosuree:
It's funny how you lot can tell that I bother him with social media gossip based off one instance that I gave. I don't even care about social media gossip. Besides, is every controversial topic on social media gossip/gist?

calm down. If it's a deal breaker for you, then end the relationship. Either way, you're going to hurt him, so do it while he still has a chance to hurt less.

Pretty sure there's an Einstein somewhere that you can date.

jansonn:
Chai, this life!! And me dey find girl I can discuss politics, nature, medicine and all that intellectual sturvs and all the girls I meet are as dumb as a chicken only Instagram and billing, even the fashion they claim they know and the movies they watch, they can't identify Sylvester stallion, they still call him Rambo for goodness sakes!! Let's chat pls, am really sapiosexual and am done with these "pretty" girls

No be only Sylvester Stallion, na Sylvester Horse.

Also, it's I'm or I am, not am

Weird that you think it is a sign of intelligence - knowing an actor's real name. You don't know his real name either, so what do we say about you?

festacman:
Congratulations to Asisat Oshoala!

Truth be told. As a SPECIAL player, Asisat needs to step up, 'own' the Super Falcons and carry the team on her shoulders like other special players all over the world do.

Being an important player for Barcelona female team and then coming home to Nigeria to become just ONE of of Super Falcons is not good enough. This is time to drop the mentality of "I will just do my thing on the field and leave". This is time for Asisat to step up, INSPIRE and DRIVE Super Falcons to greater heights especially on global stage.

no player carries their team alone! The others have to play their part.

Sterling before Neymar? Who wants to buy Sterling? No VVD in top 10? What's the basis for this list?

ladykilllar:
Lol, i pray

amen!

macbeyland:
Romoss sense 8p+ power bank now available in Lagos @16k. Abeg no price negotiation o. Body dey pepper me. I just realized that with the bill I paid for shipping and clearing and transport, each 30k mah power bank cost me around 5k

how far bro? You left me on pending. I'm still interested o. Just the Romoss sense 8p+ now though.

naijasensei:
This is a public service announcement.
If you are coming to this thread to seek solutions to your issues, please drop your pride and ego. If you humble yourself, and patiently read what people suggest you should you; it is almost certain you will resolve your issues - people will even fall over themselves to assist you.
However, if you come here with an attitude, speak rudely to those trying to assist you, and feel too big to provide information your would be helpers request for - blame no one if you get no help, or you cannot resolve your issues. Nobody here is paid to attend to you, nobody is obliged to help you. Almost everyone here (apart from those worthless trolls and thread retailers) is a volunteer who is passionate about helping others - so put some respect on it. Save your aggression, attitude, and insults for those you pay money to help you.
I will leave you with this saying "When you ask a question, you become a fool for the moment you are seeking enlightenment".

again, well said. I don't understand the idea behind people insulting or threatening people trying to help them. The sense of entitlement is nauseating.

ladykilllar:

lol. Too much money. Why the long face though? You want to buy 5-10 units for us?

shadeyinka:
I said:
In other words when does a young unmarried man or woman become guilty of fornication sleeping with someone who ends up not not his/her marriage spouse? (How many people must he/she have slept with?)?
Clarification of the above:
The OT rule was that if you seduce a person (who is not bretroted to any one,) to have sex with her, then you MUST marry her for the rest of her life.

Let's assume that Mr Man later found something wrong with Miss Girl's character (or she later found to have epilepsy) and he broke up with her.

1. Is Mr Man guilty of "fornication"?
2. Is Miss Girl guilty of Fornication?
3. If Miss Girl later was to marry another man, is the other man not defrauded?
4. By the OT rule, since this girl is not a virgin anymore is she not treated as a _whore?

even with your assumption, it is clear that an issue arises only when she marries another man. The issue was always getting deflowered by another man and then getting married as a virgin to an unsuspecting man.

Culturally, the token of virginity is presented on the wedding night to the Father of the Bride. He is the one who keeps it in case of eventualities.

Deu 22:15:
"Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel's virginity to the elders of the city in the gate:"

It is never even in the possession of the Husband or the Groom's father so that they can't say "they can't find it" or replace it with another cloth.

So, this deflates your theory that "an engaged couple could have sex as long as they will marry each other". The question then is where would they find the token of her virginity?

Summary:
By the Old Testament, the Bride is expected to be a VIRGIN on the wedding night!

the bride is expected to be a virgin when she first has relations with the man who becomes her husband.

The Jewish culture is not the exact same thing as what the law stipulates. The culture is influenced by the law but there are always bits of addition. In Jesus day, come people ceremonially washed their hands up to the elbow, was that what the law stipulated?

From the verses in the Bible, the cloth thing only comes up when after having relations with her, the man is upset and says she wasn't a virgin. Read those verses carefully, they entertain the possibility that the man is saying the truth or that he is lying. If a man just has sex with his new bride and blood spilled but he still wants to lie about it, would he first go present the bloodied cloth to her parents and then go lie to the elders of the community?

The law itself never talked about how the parents get the cloth. If the man was bent on lying against her, he wouldn't willingly present them with evidence against him first. They would evidently have to get it from their daughter. So your claim only makes sense in the light of later Jewish custom and not the law. It's the law that define God's views.

If it was mandatory as you claim, where did Joseph (who married an already pregnant Mary and didn't have relations with her until she gave birth) find blood stained sheets that he presented to his father-in-law? You don't seem to get it, if the husband is fine with the condition in which he met her, no one has an issue.

No! no!! no!!?
I quoted:
"
1Cor 7:2:
"Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband."
And said:

The solution to fornication seems to be marriage and NOT to have a person you'll be having an exclusive dating relationship. "

If it means to avoid sleeping around, Paul would have written

Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own woman and let every woman have her own man" .

But no!
It says have your own legally married spouse!

you are assuming what fornication means, which is what churches have assumed for centuries while their pastors and leaders commit the vilest of sex sins in secret.

Paul was simply saying, if you have your own wife/husband, you are less likely to engage in sexual acts that are wrong (fornication) because of your urges. That includes the temptation to sleep with another man's wife/fiancee, with relatives (incest), and so on. You people only assume that fornication means you are single and sleep with someone. The Bible never said so.

There were two offences of the Israeli with the Moabites.
1. Sexual Immorality:
Jewish girls don't sleep around because they know they have to present a token of their virginity on their wedding night but the Moabite girls have no such rules hence a Jewish man can pick a girlfriend from amongst them AND be having sex with them
2. Idolatry:
Participation in idol related activities like dancing, eating and praying to the Moabites idols.

Don't forget that God's anger was doused when
Num 25:7-8:
"And when Phinehas, the son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron the priest, saw it, he rose up from among the congregation, and took a javelin in his hand; And he went after the man of Israel into the tent, and thrust both of them through, the man of Israel, and the woman through her belly. So the plague was stayed from the children of Israel."

unless you are just being dishonest, the Bible clearly states why people were killed - they had bowed down to Baal of peor. The man who brought a woman into the camp wasn't killed because he had sex, but because he had been one of the idolaters and still dared to bring one of the women into the camp while the scorge/plague was on.

This is how you people add to what the Bible says until no one knows what it truly says anymore.

Heb 13:4:
"Marriage is honorable[b] in all[/b] , and the bed undefiled: but fornicators and adulterers God will judge."

Is the marriage bed not defiled when an unmarried couple play daddy and mummy?

you don't have a marriage bed if you aren't married. I don't know why it's hard for you to grasp. Those verses are for the married - stay faithful to your spouse.

Please run your theology through this scripture and tell me your theology still holds


Phil 4:8:
"Finally, brothers, whatever things are true, whatever things are honest, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure , whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things."

Can I boldly stand before your intending Father in-law and Pastor and say.

"I hope to marry your daughter and I have been faithfully performing my sexual duty to her...."

Can you repeat the same thing as a legal married man and say

"I thank you for giving me your daughter and I have been faithfully performing my sexual duty to her...."

this is stupid talk. Do you discuss with your father-in-law about having sex with your wife (his daughter)? When a man is engaged to a woman in Bible times, he can divorce her. Engagement was taken as serious as marriage, as if they were already married.

African culture is different, but then we didn't set out to discuss African culture, did we? We are discussing the Bible and what it reveals about God's thoughts on sex despite widely held beliefs.

Answered your questions!
1) What was the [b]punishment under the Mosaic law for a man having relations with the woman engaged to him?[/b]

If there is a punishment, then it cannot be right or allowed as you have been presenting it.
IF THE WOMAN IS NOT ENGAGED
Deu 22:28-29:
"If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give to the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he has humbled her, he may not put her away all his days."

Compulsory permanent marriage even if he discovers she's an Ogbanje and has Epilepsy on top! LOL!
IF THE WOMAN IS ENGAGED TO ANOTHER
Deu 22:25-26:
"But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die. But to the damsel you shall do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man rises against his neighbor, and slays him, even so is this matter:"

This case is Rape!If it is NOT a Rape case (within the CITY)

Deu 22:23-24:
"If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed to an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; Then you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city, and you shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he has humbled his neighbor's wife: so you shall put away evil from among you."

Both are killed.

I asked about consensual sex between two persons engaged to each other (ie, the man lays down with the woman betrothed to him) and you quote those verses about rape? Are you kidding or you don't know that those verses are about rape?

When a man lays hold on or grabs and has sex with (this is referring to rape, if you aren't aware) a woman who isn't married or engaged he has to pay a fixed sum of money, marry her (non-negotiable), and not be allowed to divorce her (because he had humiliated her). Take note that the same term is also used when Amnon (son of David) raped his sister Tamar. He had humiliated or humbled her.

He is only killed if she was engaged or married. In fact if she's a slave girl, he wouldn't be killed even if she was engaged.

That's totally different from consensual sex with an unengaged woman - Exodus 22: 16, 17

16. And if a man entice a maid that is not betrothed, and lie with her, he shall surely endow her to be his wife.
17. If her father utterly refuse to give her unto him, he shall pay money according to the dowry of virgins.

There was no punishment for consensual sex with an unengaged woman. He only had to pay dowry and marry her if her father agrees. Regardless of whether he marries her or not, he had to pay dowry (any amount the girl's fathers asks), because then no man would marry his daughter as a virgin anymore and he cannot cash out from her wedding like he would have from a virgin daughter.

2) Why is it that consensual sex with a woman married or engaged to another man was punishable by death, but forcing an unmarried and unengaged woman into sex (rape) wasn't?

The fact that in BOTH cases there were punishment meant that they were both WRONG. The only difference is the GRAVITY of the offence against the state of Israel and the groom to be!

If sleeping with your "spouse" was not wrong and correct, why should it attract even the tiniest bit of punishment?

of course they are both wrong - sleeping with a woman belonging to another man, and rape of a woman that is unengaged/unbethrothed. How does either of them equate to sleeping with someone you are engaged to? You haven't answered the question. Why was CONSENSUAL sex with an engaged woman considered WORSE than RAPING an unengaged one, under the Mosaic law?

When you understand that, you'd get the point. It was never about the act of sex in itself, but the fact that you are taking what already belonged to someone else or planning to give someone else a 'used' wife. The punishment prescribed in the case of the rape of an unengaged woman, was simply because it was rape - she had been humiliated (forced against her consent).

In the case of consensual sex with an unengaged woman, they simply had to get married with her father's consent (if it's rape, he must marry her, consent or not). That way, you don't pass the buck of your actions to another man.

This is likely my last post on this issue, as it is evident you don't know enough about the Bible's laws to tell the difference between consensual sex and rape. Also, you keep answering questions like you don't understand it. I asked what was the punishment when a man lies down with the woman bethrothed to him, and you brought up verses about rape. I don't get.

You need to understand the Bible you are arguing about.

shadeyinka:
Check my previous posts, you are the one misunderstanding me.


Of course I meant for a married woman. It take just one sex outside marriage for it to be adultery.

Think well about this next question:
By you definition of fornication, how many girls/men does a guy/girl has to sleep with for her to be guilty of forication?

Compare your response with your quote below

In other words when does a young unmarried man or woman become guilty of fornication? (How many people must he/she have slept with?)?

it's not about the number, but the nature. If you sleep with someone without the intention of marriage, it becomes something casual like visiting a prostitute just to satisfy your urges. That is what marriage was setup to achieve - provide a secure environment for raising kids, making it possible for everyone to have a clear line of descent and for men to take responsibility for their children as they can more easily tell which is thiers.

Then by this fornication is sleeping with anyone you finally didn't get married to. Or in other words, once you sleep with a girl you MUST marry her (with all her shortcomings) because you fear the Lord . And you may never divorce her.
Is this your position?

you seem not to understand the simplest stances. Fornication (porneia) according to the bible is all outlawed sexual activity. It is the same as sexual immorality, and even includes adultery in its broadest sense.

Talking about Fraud!
Where then will they find the token of her virginity (which is usually presented to the family amidst celebrations). I want to believe you are familiar with the Jewish culture. Or do you think the groom and bride will sprinkle a chicken's blood on the white clothe and present it to the Father in-law as the token of virginity? Which one is really fraud?

Jewish custom is borne from the Mosaic law that states how issues of accusation of not being a virgin (when he had relations with her) should be handled (Deut 22: 13 - 19). The Mosaic law does not make it compulsory, but provides it as a basis for settling such disputes - if you are sleeping with your wife for the first time, better put cloth so if she isn't a virgin AS YOU THOUGHT, you have proof. Do you think people who performed brother-in-law marriages to bear child for a diseased relative did this 'proof of virginity' too? It's simply a case of ensuring you got what you paid for, and even if it became a Jewish custom, the law did not mandate every newly wedded to 'gift' the woman's parents that cloth. Those verses didn't even say when the parents gain possession of it (before the accusation or after? Was it given to them by their son in-law or their daughter?)

Custom is custom and law, law. It's the laws God gave that show us how he viewed matters, not what others do as a result.

Secondly, even if we go by your redefinition of fornication to mean sleeping around or with someone you are NOT 'engaged to be married to", do you think it answers the following scriptures?
1. 1Cor 7:2:
"Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband."

The solution to fornication seems to be marriage and NOT to have a person you'll be having an exclusive dating relationship.

Funny you should quote this. This can be easily rephrased as "to avoid sleeping around, have your own legal partner."

2. 1Cor 10:8:
"Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty
thousand."

What was the fornication spoken of here?
Num 25:1:
"And Israel lived in Shittim, and the people began to fornicate with the daughters of Moab."

I wonder what the guy said to the Moabite woman?
Let me break it down; the guy saw a beautiful Moabite lady and went to toast her...not too different from what happens now abi?

you think the Israelite men got engaged to the Moabite women with plans to marry them? Also can you say for sure that all the men were single men? They simply had casual sex with no strings attached.

Note that it is not even sex that made God's anger blaze against them. Numbers 25: 1 - 9 clearly shows that God was angry because they bowed down to other gods (eg Ba'al) and the instruction was to kill everyone who committed idolatory (not every one who had sex) - Numbers 25: 5.

3. What is difficult in keeping the marriage bed undefiled (before and after marriage)?

Heb 13:4:
"Marriage is honorable in all, and the bed undefiled: but fornicators and adulterers God will judge."

you don't have a marriage bed before marriage. That part only talks about married persons. It is both fornication (unlawful sex) and adultery (sex with someone else while married).

Quick questions for you.
1) What was the punishment under the Mosaic law for a man having relations with the woman engaged to him?
2) Why is it that consensual sex with a woman married or engaged to another man was punishable by death, but forcing an unmarried and unengaged woman into sex (rape) wasn't?

XiaomiNigeria:
Poco F2 will be launch on Jun 16, 2020.

noted. If this doesn't happen, you aren't official and we'd never forget. Just saying.

veekid:
I love the graphics on that LCS, so close to reality, unlike the vice city. What's up with the GTA V on mobile? Make sense?


Thanks for the response

there's no official GTA V on mobile. All the ones you see are modded versions of San Andreas.

shadeyinka:
Fornication strictly is NOT sleeping with an unmarried person. Fornication comes from the Greek word porneo from which the word pornography comes from. It means sexual immorality in its broad sense.

A married woman can be divorced on the grounds of fornication (sexual immorality) which translates (whatever the form into Adultery).
I think the scripture is simple to understand.

Mat 19:9:
"And I say to you, Whoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication , and shall marry another, commits adultery: and whoever marries her which is put away does commit adultery."

finally you've agreed that fornication isn't a term exclusively different from adultery. You are making progress however small.

How many time does a woman have to sleep around for her to commit adultery?

it's only adultery if she's married.

You still have to explain why the punishment for not being a virgin in the old testament was death.

that wasn't a punishment for not being a virgin. It was a punishment for marrying someone else who didn't deflower her. The reason is simple, the man has been tricked into marrying a lady that another man has deflowered. What if it's the eventual husband that deflowered her before that night? Would he also raise alarm? Would she be put to death?

Instead what does the bible say:

1Cor 7:8-9:
"I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I. But if they cannot contain , let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn ."

What do you think this scripture mean? Wouldn't legalized fornication solve the problem of burning?

to burn means to be inflamed with passion which could make them start sleeping around. The Bible (when you consider the old and new testament together) intended for people (especially women) to have just one sexual partner until one of them dies. So if you do have sex with a lady that wasn't married or engaged, marry her (Exodus 22: 15, 16) if her father agrees. Don't leave her for an unsuspecting man to get tricked into marrying.

3For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:
4 That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;
5 Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God:
6 That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.
7. For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.
- I Thess 4: 3-7 (KJV)

note how Paul brought fraud into an issue of sexual immorality? Ties in seamlessly with the Mosaic laws that protected a man from being TRICKED into marrying a woman deflowered by another man. He's saying don't do that, don't take what you aren't going to own, don't shortchange another man (your brother in the Lord).

veekid:
Game lovers, pls suggest another good GTA, done with GTA LCS. .. I hail

all GTA games are good, as long as it's an original Rockstar game. For mobile, there's GTA 3 (very old but very similar to the LCS you just finished). Then there is GTA Vice City and GTA San Andreas (my personal favorite of the GTA series available on mobile).

If you have a gaming laptop, however, no GTA game beats GTA V.

Joeysage:
No na, this one na warri guy, I hear say dem no dey carry last

hehehe... I'm not that either.

Tiger2020:
cha! This guy must be an Igbo guy

na only igbo guys don tire to find phone?

PrecisionFx:
""Sex outside marriage isn't a sin God was just being brutal in the Old Testament!""

It is only brutal to a woman who does not marry the man who disvirgined her...... Digg it.

exactly.

shadeyinka:
Fornication have various shades of meaning including sexual immorality.

Now in the case of

Matthew 19: 9
And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication , and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery

The word fornication specifically as used by Jesus is NOT
1. incest,
2. bestiality,
3. sodomy,
4. rape, and
5. sex with another man's wife/husband or
6. sex with a woman engaged to another man
BUT
7. sexual immorality
All you need to do is slot each in as a synonym for fornication and see if the scripture remain valid.

Note that Jesus was referring to a MARRIED woman. Whoever she sleeps with outside her husband is SEXUAL immorality which constitute adultery against the husband.

this is wrong. Jesus said except on the ground of fornication (or sexual immorality) - the wife commits fornication. It has nothing to do with the other person the wife sleeps with, unless you are saying that it is only wrong if she sleeps with a single person.

According to your definition, if she cheats with a married person, has either of them committed fornication? If not, it means the husband cannot divorce her for cheating?

Note that everything you listed up there constitutes sexual immorality. Sexual immorality is the same as fornication (fornication is coined from Greek and wasn't used in the old testament manuscripts). It includes every sexual activity that is considered immoral or wrong.

On some occasion, sexual immorality (fornication in some translations) is used separately from adultery to capture everything else that isn't adultery, and in some other cases it is used as a synonym for adultery. That's why Jesus used it in reference to marriage persons. The Mosaic law is already clear on what sexual activities were wrong. There was no new law given to christians that defines sexual immorality differently.

Secondly,
So that you will not think it absolves dating couple.

Can you please answer what happens if I married a wife but on consummation I discover that she isn't a Virgin?
(Her excuse was that her former boyfriend deflowered her).
Does this argument hold?

Deu 22:20-21:
"But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she has worked folly in Israel, to play the LovePeddler in her father's house: so shall you put evil away from among you."

Can you see that one who lost her virginity is TREATED as a _whore? Does it matter if it was just once with a former boyfriend?

In your view, what is the expectation from a maiden on her wedding day?
And
Do you think that sexually expressive dating relationship MUST eventually lead to marriage?

that example has nothing to do with marrying the person who deflowered her. It's for when she sleeps around, so her eventual husband never had any sexual contact with her but he discovers for the first time that she wasn't a virgin on their wedding night AND he raises alarm.

The thing many of you don't understand is that many of those laws were male-centric and treated women as piece of property, so the laws protected him from unknowingly buying 'used property' disguised as new. From the mosaic law, the only thing that made sex between two consenting adults wrong is if they don't end up marrying, so that another man would then end up marrying a lady that someone else has slept with already.

It's also the reason why consentual sex with a woman engaged to ANOTHER man was punishable by DEATH, but something as bad as raping a woman that wasn't engaged only resulted in the man making a sin offering, having to marry her and not be allowed to divorce her all his days. If it wasn't rape, then he doesn't even offer a sin offering. Just has to pay her father money and marry her IF HER FATHER AGREES. Can't you see that this applies only to cases where the man an woman aren't already planning to marry?

I'm still waiting for the law that talks about two unmarried persons engaged to each other who have sex. What happens to them?

macbeyland:
Only for resellers. Except if the buyers know how to exploit loopholes.

thanks for the tip