@otuwe,

otuwe:

where did the church going christains learn how to pray by jumbing up and down and binding and casting.

I really don't know what you mean by jumping up and down; but here binding and casting is taught in the Bible:

Matt. 12:29 -- Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

Matt. 18:18 -- Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Mark 16:17 -- And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues.

otuwe:

at least that was not what christ taught us on how to pray,

I hope the verses above would be helpful. Christ taught us more things on prayer than most people have read of in the Bible.

otuwe:

i want to know where this binding and casting originated from (holy ghost fire, )

A few have been given just above. Cheers.

thesilent1:

you see how nyabinghi has turned this innocent question into a christianity bash?!!?!?!?!?! LOL

Would I have expected anything different? Reading through a few of his previous posts made me realize what he would do next. I actually had my hopes high for him; but alas!

thesilent1:

who is the lover?!?!?!?

He means babyosisi. That is why I offered to let him know that I've been following the discussion, though he may not believe it. 

@thesilent1,

Digging deep is what we should encourage one another to do. God bless.

@oyb,

oyb:

@bari kade,

you have obviously NOT been reading this thread.(you've probably been cheering from the sidelines)

That is a wrong assumption to make; and this quick reaction simply shows that you missed th gist of my rejoinder. Please go over it carefully, if you may.

oyb:

i made an explanion of sorts, and the lover IMMEDIATELTLY TWISTED the topic.

An explanation of sorts does not mean the same thing as offering sound answers. A deliberate effort to misconstrue Biblical teachings has not even helped your defences or explanation of sorts.

oyb:

PLEASE KINDLY READ THROUGH THE ENTIRE THEAD, OR TRY TO MAKE SURE YOU UNDERSTAND where i'm coming from.cheers.

What makes you think I haven't read the thread before stating my observations? Did you bother to catch the gist in my rejoinder before your quick reaction?

@thesilent1,

thesilent1:

so from what my little brain is telling me, this tells me that he was not God

I don't think the Bible teaches that Melchizedek was God.  


@Oracle,

Oracle:

Jesus is mostly refered to as "Son of God" but would you argue that he's not God?

I have never argued against the deity of Jesus Christ. Perhaps you have done so in the past, no?

Oracle:

The bible is not just there for you to read and interpret directly.

As long as one interpretes the Bible correctly and not read their own thoughts into it.

Oracle:

There are prophecies and mysteries that need to be unravled.

That is why we are waiting for them to be unravelled; rather than just making open-ended statements.  

@oyb,

You're not really making any sense in this discussion. Not at all. If a topic is posted and you seek to address it but deviated midcourse to seek loopholes in Christianity, you will find a million and one of such in exactly the way you seek them.

In just the same way, there are thrice that number of loopholes one can find in Islam. . . I mean, more than thrice that number!

At the end of the day, when you read the teachings of Jesus Christ and that of Muhammad, you will find very clearly that on every point, Muslims cannot defend ths issues being raised here about Islam and Muhammad's career as prophet.

What really have you defended?

How have you defended them?

Where does your defence leave Islam?

Whether on the issue of Jihad or this one about Men and Woemn not praying together in the mosque, Muslim apologists still stand limp in their defences. Do men and women pray together in the mosques? No. Then why not? No Muslim has been able to answer the question.

Now, to go outside the ambit of this topic and seek your belly-dances is simply to invite the same things you complain about. At the end of the day, is it not true that Muslims have treated their women less humanely than you think Christians have?

Making excuses for the perennial problems Islam offers women has not produced an iota of sound reasoning from your efforts.

olutomiwa:

i just hope the money WON,T FINISH.

Goodness me. . . you guys won't kill me with laughter today!

thesilent1:

and i totally agree with this, but if you noticed i did add this bit to my post as well:

Bless up!  

@nyabinghi,

nyabinghi:

Christianity has really made women free but what did the world gain from their freedom.
1. prostitution
2. high rate of abortion
3. high suicide rate
4. high rate of divorce
5. High rate of women slaves

most in christian dominated regions.

Such issues did not arise from Christianity. In so-called "Christian" nations of the West (if there's really any such thing), people live in pluralistic societies; and many people who have once been into prostitution have found the power of deliverance from their problems in Jesus Christ. That is the difference.

Islam, rather than seeking to bring people out of their innate problems, have sought to put them to death.

Please, visit the typical Muslim/Islamic countries of Pakistan, Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia. How much has Islam freed the Muslim women of those countries? The Hudood Laws? The Honour Killings? Are these the instruments of freeing Muslim women from their own male Muslims? Who makes women slaves and reduces their intelligence to half of men?

nyabinghi:

he who has no sin should cast the first stone

That is another excuse for pretending that these heinous crimes in Islamic countries should be left to go on as the norm!

nyabinghi:

Moeover islam is a complete way of life for whoever want to adhere to it.

We have seen quite a lot of the "complete way of life" for the suffering Muslim women who are denied their freedom in typical Islamic countries of the Middle East.

nyabinghi:

u need some education about islam brother because i once a christian and i have tasted of the holy hoax that is named christianity.

It is really doubtful that you were once a Christian. Making an empty claim to pepper your vexations isn't going to strengthen your arguments; rather they leave more to be desired than your scholarship suggests. The women who are daily rape victims under Islamic Laws in Pakistan and Afghanistan have much to say about your unholy hoaxes.

If you have actually tasted the reality in Jesus Christ, you will not be so confusing in your inputs.

thesilent1:

apparently they are the mafia as they re not Muslims! LOL

Oh golly! You guys make me laugh out so loud!

olutomiwa:

you[b] LIED[/b].yes it DOES,if not why is it that your mallams,alfas and MOST OF UR MEMBAS INDULGE themselves in it[/b]maybe you don't{which i [b]DOUBT}

I actually don't think she is lying. Let's look at it this way:

The questions is if Islam allows magic and charms - does the religion of Islam itself contain and promote these things?

Some of us may think it does; but then the next question would be: WHERE does the Qur'an teach such?

I think one should carefully weigh this issue. It is like sadly the same position that some muslims assume: they make assumptions based on what they see so-called "Christians" do, and from them make up their minds that Christianity allows such things. Sadly, they may not have read the facts in the Bible itself as disavowing such.

It is also true that some people who profess to be "Christians" visit houses of babalawo, jazzmen, juju rituals, etc. Muslims that I know have seen these things, and unfortuantely tried to use it to knot me up when we discuss. But mt answer has always been simple: please show me where in the Bible such a thing is part of the Christian faith.

In the same way, I will not claim to have read all of the Qur'an as I should read it. But in all honesty, I haven't come across any verses in the Qur'an where such a thing is taught as part of the Muslim faith. Perhaps, it is there and I missed it: could any knowledgeable discussant point them out?

Regards. 

olutomiwa:

The way you and the membas of your team will react to my post will CERTAINLY PROVE to people  wot i mean.

@mukina2,

Good to know that you're doing ok.  

I think to a large extent, you may be right. Even so, I would love to see a situation where people discuss issues and not make the invectives the bigger issues. Cheers.

Oracle:

Question 1
Melchisedec is not just a member of the trinity, he represents the totality of the Trinity.
note that the trinity refers to one person which is GOD in three different forms.
So melchisedec is GOD

Gen. 14:18 -- And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.

@thesilent1,

thesilent1:

nigerians are very passionate people?

and if the answer to both questions above is YES, why do we then wonder when we transfer our zealousness (either negative or positive) to our faith?!?!?!

Well, I really don't think it is that simplistic to blame it on whether or not we are Nigerians. There are other people who are as passionate in religious matters, if not more; and people have their different ways of expressing their passion on issues like this.

Remember the cartooning of Muhammad saga and its aftermath? What happened outside Nigeria was more serious than what we read of as occuring within its boundaries as a result. The problem is not many people look at the bigger picture before tataking Nigeria as the rpime example.

What about the Da Vinci Code issue? How many Christians in Nigeria were as demonstrative as those outside? If we only tried to make a more balanced survey about the issues affecting us all, we would realize that there are some other countries whose citizens happen to be more religious than Nigerians. It is all a matter of exprewssing our zeal differently.

@mukina2,

How bodi?  

mukina2:

@ Bari

muslims do not run away

we are tired of the same recycled debates .

most of them resort to name calling .especailly in regards to our prophets .

I can understand where you're coming from. But the name-calling is across the board: we are ALL guilty of this in one way or another (that includes me).

However, I'm not applauding that this should be the trend. My problem has been that Muslims play this game quite often (ask nyanbinghi for the recent entries). In as much as we should endeavour to face issues and avoid this petty attitude, why is it that Muslims use this excuse every single time that they have no answers to questions raised?

Christians, inspite of the same event of people calling them names, have continued to discuss issues and not made the name-calling the most important issue. My advise is this: anyone who wants to discuss any topic should not use excuses like this as reason for why they have no answers. I have personally learnt a lot from the inputs that others make, especially because they do not mind the abuses but have kept focused on the topics.

@mrpataki,

mrpataki:

@ bari_kade,
Nice to have you back again! Missed a lot of you guys here.

Thanks. Nice to see you're still on. I notice a lot of the sharp brains on the Forum have not been active in recent times; and thank goodness that some are still here. I've missed you guys a lot!

nyabinghi:

I noticed that christians on this site just seem to develop cold feet over islam. can i get some reasons why. I need an explanation.

What's the cold feet over Islam? Is it not rather the other way round about why Muslims have been running away from the Religious section? I noticed that you have several times called out to your own brethren to cease from making their inputs on this motherboard.

olu fash:

IT'S NOW I NOW THAT PROTESTANTS ARE VERY CONFUSED

Em. . @olu fash,

Are you helping the discussion or just trying to spit your own fire?

@nyabinghi,

nyabinghi:

Dear brothers and sisters,,

I am referring to Muslims on this thread. Please stop responding to these gays, they have nothing concrete to say.

It's really amazing that "gays" have been giving concrete answers and all you can offer are the invectives.

nyabinghi:

Christianity is  a way of falsehood, delivered and packaged through a worthless novel called the book.

Yet, it is this same "novel" that Muhammad said Allah sent down before the Qur'an.

nyabinghi:

How will My God be the same as theirs when he could be made in form of a graven image and bowed to.

Well, you ask a very good question here. No one can make God into a graven image; but what image do Muslims bow down to and kiss when during their pilgrimage (hajj) to Mecca? What image is the black stone that Muslims bow down to?

nyabinghi:

Ask the hypocrites, if they serve the same God as the jews.

We do. Now ask Muhammad if he claimed to serve a different God from Jews and Christians from the Qur'an. Did he not claim the following? -- "Say: Will ye dispute with us about Allah, seeing that He is our Lord and your lord; that we are responsible for our doings and ye for yours; and that We are sincere (in our faith) in Him?" (Qur'an 2:139).

If Muhammad claimed to be serving the same 'God', then your rants here are pronouncing Muhammad's Allah as the graven image that informs your quarrel.

nyabinghi:

Or rather if catholics, mormons, Anglicans, jehovah Witenesses, and the other denominations serve the same God.

Or rather, if the following denominations in Islam are serving the same Allah preached by Muhammad:

Hashamiya / Taraqibiyah - They Predicate a body to Allah and also allege Prophet (pbuh) of disobedience to Allah.

Zarariyah - They believed that Allah did not live nor had any attributes till He created for Himself life and His attributes.

Younasiyah - They believe that Allah is borne by bearers of His Throne, though He is stronger than they.

Shaibaniyah / Mashbiyah - They believe Allah resembles His creatures.

Islam has more denominations each saying different things from what Muhammad and the Qur'an teach; and yet you can see the denominations in Christianity and pretend that denominations do not exist in Islam. Sad.

nyabinghi:
truth has come to prevail over falsehood. You may be born again many times but never die without being a muslim.

The truth is that truly born again believers in Jesus Christ are not promised any HELL; unlike in Islam where Allah has promised an irrevokable decree to make every Muslim ENTER hell fire (Qura'n 19:71). This is one reason among many why true believers in Jesus Christ would never consider dying as Muslims.

@viee,

viee:

bari

i read everything, and may be it is you that just refused to read through my own post
rather u choose to see what u wanted to see

Okay, I'm sorry. No big deal for me to apologise where I get people wrong.  

viee:

mass is a nomenclature hjust like saturday is a nomenclature my dear
i dnt attack people post for your information
i have a different kind of orientation obvously and im glad i do

What does mass stand for viz-a-vis Saturday? Our orientations may be different, no doubt; but I'm glad I wasn't attacking anyone here.

viee:

as regards what someone said about whatever, it dosnt bother me really
i am focused in my course and what some person said will not disturb me

It shouldn't bother you, actually. As long as we don't silently acknowledge the deception.

viee:

as i said, i wish i can make it to mass everday, i willbe a more complete person
just reading the first pargragh of my post again, it could help

Well, I'd have no problem with any mass as a person's choice; as long as they're not trying to dribble it round the Bible as if it has any Biblical basis.

viee:

if anything, try and ignore the second, since u have problem with it

I really don't have any problem with it; and it's already been ignored before you asked!  

@software,

software:

@ bari-kade

My guy my Guy, wetin dey happen? How body? I hope say your Body still dey inside your cloth? I just say make i holla u. take care Bro.

my bros, I took off to school o jare. I just came back home to "refuel" and catch on some home-made fresh air!   How bodi?

nyabinghi:

Its better u change or u pay for it.

In what sense do you mean he might pay for it?

I'm not a Muslim, but try this one:

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/

@nyabinghi,

nyabinghi:

brothers and sisters,

In the name of Allah, please stop responding to the threads of these half-educated christian zealots. Having b.sc,M.sc and certifications doesn't make someone fully educated. The Bible says seek the truth and it shall set you free. Christians don't know any thing about islam more than the propaganda they get from the western backed media. How did christianity get to Africa. How many slaves did Christians take from Africa. Jesus never claimed to be equal to God because he said the father is greater than i in john 5.30.

We can be thankful for describing us as "half-educated christian zealots". It is rather a pity that the Qur'an actually recognizes Christians as very well educated and devoted to learning (Qur'an 5:82).

Secondly, if you already know what the Bible says, why are you struggling against the freedom it offers? Indeed, the Bible says 'you shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free' - but what is holding you back from the ultimate truth: Jesus Christ Himself?

Jesus' subjected Himself to the divine service that the Father gave Him to do when He stated that the Father was greater than Him (John 14:28 - the reference is not John 5:30).

However, in His true essence, Jesus made a bold declaration: "I and My Father are One" (John 10:30). You can't improve on Jesus' statement, can you?

Slavery. . . hmm. It is remarkable to observe that Jesus had no slaves; but many Islamic sources clearly declare that Muhammad himself had slaves. When it comes down to WHO really Jesus and Muhammad were, you cannot blame slavery on Jesus - for He set people free. But Muhammad: is it not true that he made slaves of people for himself?

@nyabinghi,

nyabinghi:

Omogbajesu and the rest of the christians in the room,

Anytime a muslim converts to christianity u guys will say he left darkness for light.

That is very true. More than that, they left freedom for bondage; mutual respect for tyranny; and cordial relationships for global terrorism. A quick visit to Pakistan, Afghanistan and even Saudi Arabia still reveals the heinous crimes Muslims engage in against their women, men and children.

Muslims also describe their converts to other religions as apostates; and worse than that, Islam teaches that they should be killed; unlike in Christianity where no one seeks your head for converting to another religion.

nyabinghi:

Are u sure u didn't leave light for darkness because the essence of christianity is based on falsehood.

That is how Muslims force themselves to interprete Christianity. However, it is in Islam we find al-Taqiyya as a fundamental doctrine. And we are still witnessing the al-Taqiyya falsehood in Islam today.

nyabinghi:

Islam remains the only way to salvation whether u like it or not. You can "gba" anything as u want. Islam remains the fastest growing way of life. God will make u guys see reason.

Islam does not provide any basis to God. Rather, I was shocked recently to discover that Allah in the Qur'an promises every Muslim will be taken to HELL (Qur'an 19:71). May God open your eyes and those of other Muslims to escape before it is too late.

@nyabinghi,

nyabinghi:

Pilgrim1 and de rest guys,

u guys should try to know some more of islam before pouting out thrash. Nuff said.

No matter how much the rest of us guys try to know about Islam, it still does not change the facts on grounds: Muhammad performed NO miracles, and the Qur'an is NOT a miracle!

You have been offered a challenge to bring your convictions otherwise to be discussed. If you have none; the case remains as is: there are NO miracles in Islam. QED.

@nyabinghi,

nyabinghi:

White roses,

Please where did God say jesus is the only way to him. Study your facts well.

And is there any verse where God said that Jesus is not the only way to Him?

When Jesus said, "I am THE Way" (John 14:6), He was not offering a compromise for another way. If you study this issue well enough, you will find that His statements were emphatic when it comes to who He is and what He can do:

John 6:44 - "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."

In the same way, Jesus made it clear that He is THE way to the Father (rather than a way):

John 14:6 - "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me".

@thesilent1,

I'm also somewhat concerned about the way issues are now being discussed on this motherboard. However, many blessings to you as we do our bit to make sense in ours.

@thesilent1,

thesilent1:

i hope we remember that we are not AGAINST each other but "iron sharpens iron" and so i am happy to see the various contributions to this

I am also happy to observe the various contributions - even yours as well. I am not against anybody; and my posts were made to both debate and discuss only one thing: The Sabbath Law was not made for Christians.

Sabbatarians often argue that Christians should be seventh-day believers - and they argue for their case as best they could.

In the same way, I offer my inputs as best I can to counter that idea; because I'm persuaded that the apostles would not have repeatedly treated the issue if it really didn't matter.

Cheers.

@viee,

viee:

did God say, this first day that is monday, i am making so so?

Monday was not given as the first day.

viee:

as a catholic, we have our masses everyday
i am more concerned about how i can make it mass daily and be a better person than whih day i should wear my best cloth

people please!

I don't remember people complaining about 'arguments' before now; and I think it would help to simply ignore threads that you don't feel inclined to discuss. Besides, the daily mass thing of Catholicism is NOWHERE outlined in the Bible, and trying to make any mention here about it is your own way of offering your own arguments.

If you have been carefully following the discussions of this subject right from another thread on the same topic, you would shake your head or even laugh louder at what Bobbyaf called the Catholic Church - "Babylon". I hope that can put a smile on your daily mass. 

@pisces20,

pisces20:

Guys i've got a little problem. sometimes i go to church and come back without hearing even a word of what the preacher said. though this only happens on sundays. what can i do about it?

I'll not try and assume that I understand your problem. I can relate to that in the past, where I would come home after a church service and not even remember most of what was preached.

Perhaps, one way I overcame that problem was to challenge myself with what I call, 'a progress chart'. There were a few things I outlined in this 'chart':

                                         Date: _ _ _ _ _

   Speaker: _ _ _ _ _

   Subject: _ _ _ _ _ _

   Scripture: _ _ _ _ _ _

   Challenges: _ _ _ _ _

   *Nuggets:_ _ _ _ _ _

*(by Nuggets I mean some interesting - perhaps a promise to take to heart, a verse to memorise, an word in Scripture that helps my faith. ,  etc).

You may not have to follow the same 'chart' or outline (as individuals differ). But with those, I also came to the conclusion that I would need to seek out fellowship in a church where my faith could be more challenged. Nothing seriously wrong with my former church, though; but I can be thankful for the church I presently fellowship with.

I'll be praying for you. God bless.