₦airaland Forum

If it were that simple, bro.

True, there are some hate the West whatever it does but there are also those who think that this is purely about the West and Libyan oil.

They're the people who need to educate themselves and realise that the West was financially better off leaving Gaddafi in power.
Leaving him power was never a problem as he was bending over backwards with oil deals so that he could come in from the cold where he'd been for the last couple of decades. Deposing him, they stand to lose billions.

pleep:
Its not about oil trading. the west is protecting thier Oil interests in libya the west doesnt want a man like ghaddafi to control  the largest oil reserves in the continent because that gives him power over them. Also the price of oil has increased because of this crisis. Thus the west has an interest in ending it soon. Also, a lot of the oil in libya is pumped by a government controlled company. After they enact a democray the oil surely will be privatized and companies like B.P, shell and exoon Mobile wil swoop in.

You've got it totally wrong.
The oil deals favour the West. Europe, Japan and the US have the vast majority of drilling rights in Libya.

One of the heads of the rebel council said:
"If oil contracts were unfair or based on corruption, however, the interim leadership of Libya's second city Benghazi said they reserved the right to renegotiate them."

And even more ominously worrying for the oil companies who paid millions to seal the deals, the same article continues, "Jammal bin Nour, a judge and member of the Feb. 17 coalition, told Reuters oil contracts signed by Gaddafi's government would be respected as long as they were fair, good for Libyans, and not based on corruption."

Now companies and countries who landed the best deals (BP and Shell) won't want any re-negotiation. While countries who were not around when those deals were struck but are now very much around (hello China) will be doing everything they can to ensure they are not just re-negotiated but perhaps put back out to open tender.

So in a nutshell: The West already has the deals. By deposing Gaddafi, those deals are almost certainly going to be up for renegotiation and will probably cost them more or will go to different countries like China.

So, even with all of the eye witness accounts of Gaddafi's forces bombing Benghazi and other cities, after his supposed cease-fire and with all of the video reports, you think that the rebels are bombing themselves?

Amazing.

Yet more lies fromk you cap28. Don't you ever get bored of spouting deceit.

The West will not occupy Libya. They do not have a mandate for it and more importantly, their own populations would not support such an act.

The US gets minimal oil from Libya and the UK gets zero. If they wanted the oil, all they had to do was to continue to do was to follow your example and slobber at Ghaddafi's loins as they were already doing. He was already handing the oil companies any drilling deal that they wanted as a means to get back into the international community which he had been ostracised from.

These idiots who cry "It's about the oil" don't know what they're talking about. The West already had what they wanted. You don't fight for something which you already have and isn't under threat.

[quote author=dell_net link=topic=626859.msg7943853#msg7943853 date=1300539718]@bastage why don't the arab league or au send in it's military logistics first? They have the planes but still waiting on US and Western powers to hit.[/quote]Because for all their whining and crying, they wait on the West to do their dirty work for them.

It's the same old, tired crap.

They already have the oil deals if they want them. The UK does not import from Libya. The US imports negligable amounts.

There would be no difference in oil trading with a new regime than there is with a new one.

As you seem to be so good at speaking through it, let your arrssee tell me which nation is against it then.

WTF are you talking about?

This "grand scheme" as you put it was not sanctioned by the US and the West. Read what I wrote. Of the 10 countries who voted for the No-Fly Zone, only four of them are Western.

You also totally overlook the fact that the Arab League and the AU called for it. If any other African nation had been on the voting panel, they would have put in a Yes too.
Man, you are brain-dead. It's not the West that's put in a No-Fly zone. It's the World.

cap28:
the arab nations who sanctioned this assault are traitors, saboteurs and western puppets

LOL. By that logic, the West is a stooge and puppet of the Arab world.
It was the Arab League who were calling for a No-Fly Zone whilst the West were sitting on their backsides dithering.
The Arab League called and the West came running (although slowly).

Bro I laugh at you.

There is a simple answer to the question.

When Ghaddafi came to power, he was pan-Arab. His idea was to unite the whole of the Arab world with him at the head.
The Arabs saw this and laughed in his face. They wanted nothing to do with him.

As that door closed, he turned to Africa and tried to do the same. His new idea was to create a "United Africa" with him as the head.

Ghaddafi doesn't care about black Africans. He only cares about setting himself up as a dictator over as many people as he can.

phantom23:
Why was this No -Fly zone issue championed by David Cameron (UK) and french's Nicola Sarkozy.
Do the Nigeria govt have informed details about everything going on? Bear in mind that the UK gets about 70% of its oil from Libya.
Can Nigeria explain the reason behing the release of the Lockerbie  bomber to Ghaddafi last year , and just few months later, the british govt entered into oil deals with Libya?
Do the Nigeria Govt understand the implication of a No fly Zone at all? Are the west out to really save the Libyan people or they are protecting their own national interest.( Bear in mind that since this uprising began, the cost of fuel has been on a steady increase in the uk).

You need to educate yourself and stop swallowing propaganda.


The UK doesn't get any of it's oil from Libya. It buys most of it's oil from Norway (over 70%) and produces it's own in the North Sea.

Only 2% of UK oil imports come from the Middle East and none of it from Libya.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/markets/2811607/Britain-has-slashed-its-reliance-on-Mideast-oil.html

Read it and learn.

Until the last couple of years, all UK trade with Libya was almost zero due to the Lockerbie airline bombing.
There is no UK national interest other than seeing a stable, democratic Middle East.

The oil deals were to drill so that Libya could export to it's markets . Not so that the UK could import Libyan oil. Those drilling operations have now ended with the uprising so it's not a case of the UK making anything from getting involved in the Libyan conflict. They are losing. They could have just supported Gaddhafi and carried on bringing in the drilling money.
And you use the petrol price rise as some sort of argument against the UK without realising that the price has gone up in every country.


Libya's main oil export markets are Italy, Germany, Switzerland and Egypt. Of those one is neutral and two have said that they will not partake in any action over the No-fly zone. Germany abstained from the UN resolution vote.


Also take notice that the African Union was in favour of a No-Fly vote. Last time I checked, Nigeria was a member of the AU. Jonathon has done nothing more than respect the wishes of that body. As did the Presidents of Gabon and South Africa who also voted for the resolution.
http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2011/sc10200.doc.htm

Since when is this NATO's war?

If any air sorties take place, there will be Arab jets also taking part including Saudi Arabia, Qatar, the United Arab Emirates and Jordan.

Last time I looked, 10 countries voted at the UN for the resolution to provide a No-Fly zone.

United States, Britain, France, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Colombia, Gabon, Lebanon, Nigeria, Portugal, South Africa.

Of those only 4 are NATO (with France only just joining). The rest are African and Muslim nations (apart from Columbia in South America.

Abstaining was Germany - a NATO country.

Also note that 4 other countries also abstained. Two of those could have vetoed the resolution and killed it dead. But they did not.


Keep posting this anti-Western trash. It makes you look like a cretin and does nothing to help your agenda.

Cap28 burbles on about the UK launching airstrikes from Malta.

What he doesn't tell anybody because he's too stupid to know is that no military operation (including staging) can take place in Malta.

It is a neutral country. It will not allow military operations to be undertaken or launched from it's soil.


http://www.maltatoday.com.mt/news/national/malta-will-stay-neutral-but-support-%E2%80%98every-effort%E2%80%99-to-help-libyan-civilians-gonzi


Caught in yet more ignorance and lies Cap28?

Cretin. Airstrikes have been confirmed against unarmed civilians.

The date doesn't matter. If he's bombing them now, it's likely that the accounts were true back then isn't it, you dolt.

Your argument goes like this:

"There was no proof that the Holocaust was occuring in 1939, therefore the Allies were wrong about the Holocaust."

It totally disregards strong circumstantial evidence and later historical, factual evidence.

It's like arguing with a retarded child. Get a life.

Buffoon. Because the right wing tabloid press reports something it is true?
Yet these are the same right wing tabloid newspapers that you accuse of lies and deception.
Which way do you want it? They either lie or they tell the truth. You can't just pick and choose the bits that you like. That would make you even more uneducated than I first believed possible.

BTW. The Daily Mail is right wing and seen as a joke by most of the UK population. How do I know that? Because I live there, you dribbling cretin.

cap28:
I suppose the construction of the Great Manmade river was spent "on keeping those who prop up his govt happy":

Now lets have a look at some of the towns that receive fresh water supply from this structure:  Adjabiya (north eastern Libya), Benghazi (north eastern Libya) Tobruk, Jaghoub (north eastern Libya) Kufra (north eastern libya)

Water is a necessity. It is not a luxury as you seem to believe.

Also Libya has the lowest infant mortality rate and the highest life expectancy in the whole of Africa.

So what? The US has a higher rate still yet they're bad guys according to you.

It also has the highest gross domestic product (GDP) per capita in the whole of Africa.

Not really that suprising when Libya is sitting on the biggest oil reserves in the whole of Africa. But why don't you tell the truth and admit that the GDP is a pittance to what the people should really be getting. Libyans should be far, far richer than they actually are. They should be up there with the Gulf Arabs. But they're not, are they.

Now are you going to turn around and tell me that the only beneficiaries of all this development are tribes in the west where  his  "power base" is located ?

The vast majority of Libyan expenditure goes to the West of the country. Now and again, a bone is thrown to the East. Why do you think that it is the East where the revolt is centered, you slowpoke?

Would  you call the imposition of immediate economic sanctions on Libya, cutting off cash flows to Libyan central banks , stepping up NATO surveillance on the coast of Libya dithering?

The same sort of sanctions that were placed upon Mugabe? Yet you say that the West never acted on African cases. Also, the sanctions are not on "Libya". They are targetted against the regime. There's a huge difference, although I wouldn't expect someone so poorly educated to know that.

How about the SAS forces that were sent by the UK (who were subsequently captured by Libyan rebels in the desert)  would you call that dithering on the part of the UK?

Total and utter dithering. So badly prepared that they were picked up the second that they landed. But that's besides the point. It wasn't even a military mission (as you claim). It was diplomatic. Not only incorrect on your part but also irrelevant. You're not doing very well are you?

How about the fact that the UK frigate Westminster and the Royal Fleet Auxiliary ship Argus have been sent to the area

How about the fact that there is normally a far greater contingent of UK warships in the vicinity? The gateway to the Mediterranean is Gibraltar. It is a huge UK naval base. One frigate and a supply vessel is hardly a military task force is it?

How about the fact that as we speak briitish aircraft  and 600 troops  are on 24-hour standby in Malta  - do you call that dithering and hesitant behaviour?

LOL. You slowpoke. You not only believe a conspiracy website but you misread it. The Black Watch are not in Malta. And do you know what "being on stand-by" means. It means someone said "We may have to go to Libya one day". Nothing more. As for the aircraft in Malta, again you show no knowledge of the subject. They are transport planes and are/were being used to removed foreign nationals.

I know what you're going to say - but the US have not physically put boots on the ground.  Fine BUT the UK has because as i said above british SAS soldiers were captured in the libyan desert only last week, furthermore one of them even had a note on him from David Cameron to the rebel leaders!!!!!:

Not a military operation so as I've already pointed out - irrelevant.

why don't you f.ck off to some totalitarian backwater or stay in nigeria where censorship, intimidation and murder are the order of the day

LMAO. As one who supports dictatorships over democracy, I'd say you have a problem with hypocrisy. You'll need to get over your bigger problem of lack of intelligence before you can address that though.

LOL. The Russians monitoring from space have a better take on it than actual eye witness videos taken as the attacks came in?
These aren't videos just from media, they've also been taken by locals.


Do you realise how stupid you sound?

cap 28. I've read some drivel here on nairaland but your inane ramblings are really up there with the best of them.
You have no clue whatsover how politics work and you have a very, very tenuous grasp on facts. Those "facts" that you are in possession of you have twisted to fit your ignorant conspiracy theorist agenda.

Let's look at some of them shall we?

Unlike the agents of western imperialism who run nigeria, Gadaffi is actually using the monies he generates from oil revenues to build useful infrastucture projects within Libya which actually benefit the people of Libya.

No he hasn't. He has spent money on keeping those who prop up his government happy. For example, his tribal home of Sirte has received immense funding whilst the East of the country receives very little. He is a typicval dictator in this respect as he pays to keep his power base whilst weakening his opponents through poverty.

why the unbeleivable speed on the part of the US/UK govt to intervene in Libya on supposed humanitarian grounds when they failed to do the same thing in the case of rwanda

"Unbelievable speed"? You're joking, right? The US and UK have done nothing but dither and hesitate through the whole Middle East crisis (let alone the Libyan one). What "intervention" has actually taken place? The answer is - none. Even their diplomatic rhetoric is hesitant. One day it is No Fly Zones and the next day they are saying that they can't put No Fly Zones in place without UN approval. For you to suggest that the West has had any major input into the crisis on the ground in Libya at the moment shows breath-taking ignoarance. About the only thing that they've done is removed their own nationals.

but my point is if the US are hypocritically claiming that they are going in to Libya on humanitarian grounds in order to remove a dictator who oppresses his own people

What? Which planet do you live on? On the one I live on there is no US involvement in Libya. They haven't gone into Libya and have stated that they have no intention of doing so. Again this is a breath-takingly ignorant statement and the complete opposite of the actual truth.

prove it to me with substantiated evidence that Gadaffi is according to you " recruiting foreigners to kill his own people" prove it to me - i want SUBSTANTIATED EVIDENCE BASED ON FACT NOT HEARSAY -

What do you call fact? The Libyan ambassador to Mali stating that mercenaries have left that country to fight for Gadaffi? He already has. Or how about the Mali foreign minister stating that many Taureg tribesman have gone to fight for Gadaffi?He already has. Or how about Taureg elders themselves stating that their villages are devoid of young men because they've gone to fight Gadaffi? They already have. Or maybe the Libyans themselves have captured foreign mercenaries and gone to the media with it. Yes. You guessed it. They already have.
But here's the best bit of proof. It's called HISTORY. Gadaffi has a HISTORY of employing foreign fighters to fight his battles for him.
Jesus. At least do some research before spouting off.

Elsewhere you claim that Gaddafi has not used his airforce and airstrikes. Again, there is so much evidence that he has, you look like a fool. Videos of Libyan jets dropping bombs on Libyan targets are very hard to refute, yes?

It seems your hatred of the West clouds your judgement. Very ironic when your location shows that you are living in their house and eating from their dinner table.

What is this cap28 character burbling about?

There have clearly been airstrikes. There is no doubt of that.

What an oaf .

Those are Thai medical students.

It is almost certainly a training exercise. if you look carefully, you can see that the corpse wears a hospital wrist band.

Yahoo Yahoo in the name of God.
Happy Birthday scumbag.

A number of controversies have arisen with the pastor and his ministry. He has a very good following all over Africa and the world over and such controversies are normally quickly downplayed.

* He has been accused of staging healing sessions[1]. These sessions are normally attended by thousands who give money to ministry hoping to be healed by the pastor. He has been accused of planting people in the crowd that he eventually "heals".
* The pastor has been accused of offering congregants who attend his school of healing money to act as if they are sicker than they are (e.g. Wheelchair bound) and then heals them at his "Night of Bliss" events [2]
* The ministry has been accused of coercing its members to make large donations to the church even though they may be poor. Church members are regularly donating large sums of cash and material possessions to the church as they are told they will be rewarded by God. This has led to a number of members losing all of their possessions as they default on other payments in order to finance the lifestyle of the churches leaders. [3]
* Healing HIV: Treatment Action Campaign has come out against the Pastor and Christ Embassy on claims to heal life threatening diseases such as HIV

chinedumo:
When God made the world and in the garden of Eden everything was good and perfect.
From the beginning there were no pagan festivals on December the 25th
From the beginning there were no pagan festivals on any other day of the year.

So what? The fact that man created gods and attributed days to them is all you need to know. It doesn't matter what you believe if the evidence shows otherwise and we know that much of Christianity was formed out of paganism because of physical evidence.

The 25th December was originally celebrated as the Winter Solstice and also later became the day of the Roman god Mithras long before Christianity took the day for itself. The Winter Solstice was a huge event in many cultures as it signified that the season had turned a corner and life would soon return in the shape of fruit and crops. It was only natural that it should be celebrated.

Christmas wasn't even celebrated for centuries after Jesus' death. In fact, when it began to take hold, the heads of the Church were opposed to the idea of it because of it's pagan origins and the idea that it was "UnChristian". Origen of Alexandria stated that, "only sinners (like Pharaoh and Herod)" celebrated their birthdays.

So you see, even the bosses of Christianity disagree with you.

tbaba1234. I was just about to read this thread but in the first sentence you wrote that the word Islam is closely related to Peace.

Quite simply, no it isn't. The word Islam means "Submission". Basically "Surrender to Allah" or "Become a slave".

If you can't even get that simple basic right, I guess the rest of the stuff that you've written isn't worth a thing so I won't bother.

Hey OLAADEGBU. You don't preach. Preaching takes some imagination. You don't have any.
All you do is repeat parrot fashion, garbage that you've seen elsewhere.

You're probably the most boring poster on nairaland. The same level as a spammer. What about coming out with some of your own stuff for a change instead of posting trash that people can easily find on the net for themselves if they so wish?

If you wish to become a successful Yahoo boi, then join them.
They preach justice and morality but once the meeting has broken up, they revert to being criminals.

All the guys I know in there are on the 419 train.

Doesn't matter how many videos you post, dude.

You're still going to hell.

If there is a Heaven, what use is any god going to have for brain-dead drones like OLAADEGBU and co up there?
They'll make the place so boring, sanctimonious, tedious and arrogant, nobody will want to go there.
Perhaps the big guy will lock the gates before they arrive so as to keep the place clean and fresh.

I for one, will be laughing my socks off when they find that the only place which will take them will be their own hell.

God did not write the Bible. Men did.

Of course, I wouldn't expect a dumb, literalist slowpoke to know that.


By the way - I bet you believe that there are fairies at the bottom of your garden too.

OLAADEGBU:
You call God a liar when you don't believe His warning about hell fire.

God NEVER, EVER warned mankind about hell fire.
It's simply an invention created by men to force the ignorant to follow their religion. In reality that means turning them away from their god. Centuries later, cretins like you, grovelling and pleading for their own salvation and self-serving purpose, spout the same tired drivel and perpetrate the lie.

A dolt like you will never realise that you're worshipping the opposite of your goal because you're so set in ignorance, you will never see light.

I'll repeat yet again - I do not have a hang up about Hell. I do not need the concept to threaten me into worshipping a god. Unlike you, I can worship through choice. I have Faith because I choose to believe. I don't need to be threatened or coerced. Unlike you, yet you have the balls to quote articles of Faith? Can I make that point any clearer or are you still going to lie about it, insist otherwise or hide behind more meaningless quotes which you don't even understand?

Come back when you can understand the concept of Faith and then try to discuss it properly instead of parroting blind innanities that have absolutely no meaning to you. Being able to quote a few verses from your Bible is not the guarantee of eternal salvation that you so ignorantly hope that it is.

OLAADEGBU:
If a meaningful human relationship cannot be established without faith, what sort of relationship could we expect to have with God, if by our unbelief we continue to call Him a liar? 

Who is calling god a liar? I'm not.
See this is your problem - you don't listen. You read about two words and then go burbling away about something that is totally irrelevant.
Faith is not the question here but as you seem to want to talk about it, then let me humour you:

What sort of Faith has it foundations in fear? In promises and threats? What sort of a relationship stems from fear?
Do you truly believe that it is fertile ground for Love to prosper in?

OLAADEGBU:
And by the way who are you to tell me my reason for worshipping God, are you now a mind reader?

I don't have to read your mind. You write so much about hell and damnation, it's clearly obvious that you worship because you are afraid. Or would you like to point out otherwise?
Do feel free to do so.

I have no hell phobia, man. Why would I? Hell is just a word to me. It certainly doesn't influence any spiritual decisions that I may or may not make.

And yet again, you reply with just more brainwashed claptrap:

You have forgotten that you cannot run far enough from God.

Not far enough so that he can't catch you and punish you for being a bad boy? In that case, your fear doesn't make you run away. It has you paralysed and unable to move.

You're screwed either way.

OLAADEGBU:
The ways of God will always seem illogical to the ways of men. The way up is not necessarily to go up.

The ways of God? Read what I said again: they're the ways of you. Unless you class yourself as god (in which case, you're extremely arrogant), you're either too stupid or too brainwashed to read my words properly.

This isn't about your god being illogical. It's about you being illogical.
If you've half a brain, you can look and see how you've got yourself into a trap.

You worship for yourself. To gain your supposed reward and to avoid your punishment. That has nothing to do with an illogical god. It's something that's fully rooted in your own being and it's based in Fear. You worship to appease it.
Any idea who the Lord of Fear is?