Idiot. Firstly that's not the BBC. Secondly and more importantly, they're reporting what the ICC had stated.

Understand that? The ICC said that Saif Al Islam was captured. That doesn't strain the credibility of the media but that of the ICC.
Of course, in your world, that doesn't make a difference.

As for the rebels being Al Qaeda. What a dunce. There's another huge difference between there being elements of Al Qaeda amongst the rebels and the majority of the rebels being Al Qaeda. It's like saying that because there are Boko Haram in Northern Nigeria, all Nigerians are terrorists. It makes about as much sense as any of your other arguments - ie: none.

By the way. I'm not self loathing. But I'll bet you are. It must really be hard on you, chewing away on the white man's bread and unable to feed yourself without his help. How can you not hate yourself?

all4naija:

@Bastage

What Cap28 rather Crap means is that it's better to have terrorists take over Africa than to have the security provided by West working in conjunction with our people.

You know what really makes me laugh?

Living in London, he eats from the white man's table.

So he's either on welfare and scrounges money from them or he works and pays taxes. In the first case, he begs for money from whitey to survive. In the second, he's helped to fund the NATO operation to overthrow Gaddafi.

cap28:

^^^^^
ah yes the same bbc who lied about saif al islam being in rebel custody, now why would i doubt their reports.

You pathetic little man. There's a difference between eye witness reports and saying "We've heard reports that Saif Al Islam has been captured".

Your link regarding Africans being murdered is the sort of reporting that you're crying about - opinionated BS with no foundation in truth.

Even now, with thousands of credible eye witness reports you try to lie and cheat your way through a ridiculous argument.

The rebels are Al Qeada? Let me tell you my ignorant, lying friend - there are 6 million people in Libya. Well over 5 million are glad to see the back of Gaddafi. Yet according to the laughable propaganda you spout, they're all terrorists.

You're a dying breed. The tyrants and dictators you support are falling. Whilst they do so, they expose the blind, ignorant hatred in your arguments, leaving your voice as nothing but a fart in the wind.

You accuse others of wearing shackles yet your chains are much, much tighter. They are the chains of delusion, hatred and crass ignorance which grow tighter and tighter with each sentence of peurile bile which you spew.

To those of you who support Gaddafi.

You support this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-14705519

More than 50 bodies have been found at a warehouse in Tripoli, behind the headquarters of a feared army unit, the Khamis Brigade, led by one of Colonel Gaddafi's sons. Survivors say they were civilians, massacred by Gaddafi's forces earlier this week.
A gaunt elderly man, Fathallah Abdullah, wept in the warehouse doorway. He told us that he managed to escape the massacre inside, but without his three sons - Ibrahim, Abdul Hakim, and Ali. All four had been detained in mid-August in their hometown of Zlitan.

"I was there," he said pointing to a corner littered with skulls. "My sons were beside me. The whole area was packed with people, crowded in like animals. We were on top of one another. There was no space to put your feet down on the floor."

Up to 150 civilians from different parts of Libya were being held there, according to Fathallah. He says uniformed troops and mercenaries guarded them. Another survivor gave a similar estimate of the numbers.

The prisoners had been asking for water. The guards promised to bring it at sunset, but instead they came with guns.

"They started shooting," Fathallah said. "Then they threw grenades, three of them. They stopped and came back and started again.
They were shooting up until two o'clock or three o'clock in the morning," he said. "Whoever is still alive they kill him."

What did you expect?

Mugabe was one of the main recipients of Libyan oil money plundered by Gaddafi.
Money that should have gone to the Libyan people. The same people who Mugabe now refuses to recognise.

Mugabe is like a thief stealing from your house and then refusing to acknowlege that it is your house.

mail4gift2:

Gaddafi who has been ousted from his own country did these terrible things:

1) Made ALL health care free for everyone.
2) Provided an apartment or house for everyone in the country
3) Allowed ALL education up to university free
4) Only housed his own parents when it was their turn he did not shuffle them up the list
5) Allowed women to work, drive a car, have civil rights!
6) BEST of all, any profit from state owned oil wells was shared out among his people.

Seriously. Which planet do you live on? Is it one with an alternative Libya? Because guy, either half of those things didn't happen and the other half should be considered normal for a country with Libya's wealth.
It amazes me that people compare Libya to sub-Saharan African states. Time and time again, cretins argue that Libya is the best of this or the best of that in Africa. So what? It's like comparing a goat droppings to diamonds. They're in totally different leagues. It is nothing like them. It is much, much, much more an Arab Gulf Oil state and that is where comparisons on healthcare, housing, education and civil rights should be made.
And in that case, Libya under Gaddafi fell well short.

I don't know if the author noticed, but the involvement of NATO in the liberation of Libya was mostly carried out by European and Arab nations.
To blame it all on the US when they weren't running policy shows ignorance.

It was France and the UK which pushed for intervention. The US wanted nothing to do with it.
As for the oil claim - the US won't see a drop from Libya. Their oil goes mainly to Europe. Always has and always will. Europe is it's primary trade partner. Contrary to what the author also claims, Russia and China already have deals with Libyan oil companies and they will be honoured, whereas the US has none and there's no sign of any being promoted.

A very badly written opinion piece that totally ignores the facts.

Do any of you Gaddafi supporters actually watch the news?

The vast majority of Libyans want Gaddafi gone. Not one or two people. Not a few. Not most of them. Nearly all of them. They want him out. Watch the news. Watch the people dancing in the streets.

Do you think a "rebel army" could just walk into Libya's capital city as this one has if the people of Tripoli didn't support it? Apart from isolated areas, do you think that a "rebel army" could take the whole city in a couple of days?
Could Boko Haram or MEND take Lagos in a few days if they decided to go to war against the government?
We can't even say that the West won it. NATO's air power is worthless in the streets of Tripoli. It was taken by the Libyan people themselves.

South Africa is playing a game that makes it look like an slowpoke. It supports Gaddafi because he supported the ANC under Apartheid. What was Apartheid? It was a tyranny. Under Apartheid, Africans had no freedom. Under Gaddafi, Libyans had no freedom. Zuma is being a total hypocrite denying the people of Libya that freedom. And he's playing a very dangerous game. Backing the wrong side and shouting about it means that South Africa's voice will not carry as much weight in the world in future times.

For once, Nigeria's politicians got it absolutely right.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-13107867

International monitors said Saturday's election could be Nigeria's first credible vote for decades.

The politicians may be corrupt but at least the people got to choose them fairly.  

cap28:

You say every other oil producing country in the world refines their own oil - so how come  your own country nigeria doesnt

My country?
Is it not your country too? I find your comment very revealing.

please i would really like to know how in your mind you have come to the conclusion that i am racist because i have said

Are you really that stupid? That forgetful? Elsewhere you've written enough bile to show your true colours. How about the posts where you refer to anyone who disagrees with you as "niggers" and "Uncle Toms". Your pathetic defence holds no water. Your position isn't one against "Western Imperialism". It's always about attacking the white man. Anyone can read through your posting history and see that is the crux of your beef. Pleading innocence only makes you look more dumb. It's why you can never be taken seriously.


I'm not suprised that you haven't mentioned the fact that Gadaffi is now using cluster bombs on civilians in Misrata.

LMAO.

exactly, libya also refines its own oil, you can see that due to the fact that both of these countries have a great level of control over their oil exports they are targetted by the US and labelled - "rogue" countries by the west.

Do they? Wow? Just like every other oil producing (and a load of non-oil producing) nations? Amazing!!! The Libyans do something that every other country in the world does as well. And that makes it special does it? LOL. Quick!! Libyans breathe air as well. That must make them a target too.
As usual, you are desperately reaching into the realms of fantasy again.

Every time cap28 opens his mouth, he makes Libya under Gaddafi to be some kind of Utopian paradise.
He claims that Gadaffi made it a rich, wealthy nation.
Yeah, sure it's rich compared to sub-Saharan Africa but when you realise that it should be compared to the Gulf States and not nations like Nigeria, Ghanan, Kenya, etc, you discover just how badly Gadaffi has screwed his people. It's a small population with (according to cap28) vast oil reserves. Where is the money? Why haven't the people of Libya got it? Why aren't they living like the Arabs in the Gulf? The Saudis? The Kuwaitis? The UAE? Answer: because Gaddafi has stolen just about everything except for the few bones he throws to the people.

Look at unemployment for example: it's over 30%. For the young, it's nearer double that. cap28 burbles on about Libyans owning their own houses, there being no private landlords and no homeless. Just like all of the rest of the dross that he utters, that's completely and utterly untrue. But even if it were true (which it is not), what good is a house if you can't afford to live in it because you have no job?

cap28 will keep spewing his lies about the people of Libya being traitors, scum, etc. He ignores the fact that the second largest city - Benghazi - is totally against Gaddafi and he tars every person living there (what a scumbag).
He's nothing but a mouthpiece for his boyfriend Muammer.

His whole argument is based on racism. It's an argument of ignorance and hatred. He uses twisted facts to try to back that racism and ignorance up. He fails on every count.

chillbabe:

It will simply be an opportunity for the British to flex some of their colonial master muscle as the french are currently doing in Libya and Ivory Coast.
They must be itching and waiting for an opportunity to storm Nigeria at the slightest

Nigeria isn't even on the map as far as the UK is concerned and Libya was colonised by the Italians.

cap28:

Only a mentally ill person would continue to track a person who has gone out of their way to ignore them all over a discussion forum.

It looks like you havent yet come to terms with the public humiliation i have continuously subjected you to on NL and this is your own weak way of trying to get your own back, how clever of you.

Don't flatter yourself mugu. I'm not tracking you. Merely answering lies and hypocrisy.

As for subjecting me to "public humiliation"? Just how and where have you managed that? Whenever I reply to your tedious whining, pointing out the fabrications and fantasies that you spout, you just whine, accusing me of being a nigger or mentally challenged. That's not humiliating anyone but yourself. All you've done is prove that you have no answer, just as you've proven it yet again in this thread.

When you do come out with answers, they're illogical and breath-takingly silly. For example, just what the hell has Italian colonialism over 70 years ago got to do with Gaddafi's rule today? You use historic colonialism to justify Gaddafi's power? That's so tenuous an argument as to be non-existent. By your logic there, we should all embrace Jonathon because Nigeria was run by the British!! Yet you say that Jonathon should be ousted. Yet again, you're caught in total and utter contradiction.
After your first sentence, I didn't even bother reading the rest of your drivel. I'm sure it contains the same sort of illogical, ridiculous trash though.
Your foolishness knows no bounds.

cap28:

How about the great man made river that he built which supplies pipeborne water to the whole of libya, he built this without borrowing a penny from the West, this river is also used to irrigate the land in order to enable libyans grow their own food instead of relying on foreign imports.

You're always good for a laugh. You've held up this river before when challenged as if it's the greatest thing in the world and that it vindicates 40 years of tyranny in Libya. Maybe it escaped your notice, but the Egyptians were irrigating the desert 3000 years ago.
Interesting that you use the statement "he built this without borrowing a penny from the West" as if it's some personal achievement of Gaddafi. The planning, the labour, the money were Libyan - not his. All the "beneveloent dictator" did was give the scheme the go-ahead. You shout as if it was some sort of personal achievement of Gaddafi's that every one should worship him for.


It's also pathetic how you're now whining about UN and Western involvement in Cote D'Ivoire. A couple of weeks ago, you were continuously posting about how the West were hypocrites because they wouldn't use military force to oust Gbagbo. Now they have, you've completely changed your tune and started crying about it.

in 2009 he was talking about nationalising the entire libyan oil industy thereby cutting out the western oil corporations who had a 49% stake in it  in order to have more control over oil prices in order to get a better deal for his people

Talking about? He mentioned it once in a satellite conversation to a class of students. Then it dropped off the table forever. But let's say that he was going to nationalise it? In the conversation he had with the students, he claimed that he wanted to nationalise because oil prices were low. Since that conversation, they've climbed to record levels (long before the Libyan crisis). Are you dumb enough to think he'd still want to nationalise? And what about a little thing known as OPEC. Try reading up on it. OPEC sets the oil price. Not an individual government. Even if Gaddafi nationalised, he would not have the power to put up oil prices. Or do you think that a tyrant whose oil exports were 3 percent globally could control OPEC's monetary policy?

I love the way you say "get a better deal for his people". He's sat there with billions of dollars in international banks and with gold reserves under his personal control for 40 years and has given the Libyan people what? A river. Man, you make me laugh.

silentc:

Lets see if the UN steps in due to "humanitarian reasons" as they did with Libya. . . . .

Or is it only when the president "bombs" his people that they step in?

What a stupid statement. The UN is already there and soldiers under it's command have been killed by Gbagbo's soldiers,

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-12950467

"French troops have taken over the airport in Ivory Coast's main city, Abidjan, the AFP news agency reports.

France is also sending an extra 300 soldiers to Ivory Coast, military spokesman Thierry Burkhard told AFP."


Now you can whine about how the Imperialist invaders are trying to take control of Cote D'Ivoire's cocoa wealth.

MandingoII:

 
Not on my TELEVISION.   

Maybe you should switch off the Disney Channel and watch the News Channel then.

You stated that Western media isn't showing Cote D'Ivoire.
I provided you with the links from the 3 top news sites in France, US and UK and they all have it running as their main story. I could have found many more. I watched the BBC news last night and Cote D'Ivoire was well above the goings on in Libya. The BBC news site even has a running commentary on the situation which is updated by the minute.

Your statement in the thread title is blatantly untrue.

Sun of god:

Oil industry analysts predict that by the year 2015, the United States will be getting 25 percent of its imported oil from African sources.

Who are these "oil industry analysts"?

US oil imports from African sources have not risen at all in the past decade. And they're nowhere near 25%. There's no sign of any jump in imports from Africa. The article is also self defeating - even if Gadaffi nationalised, he was willing to strike all the deals he could with the West to get himself back on the map. He was throwing his oil away and handing out his people's money simply to enhance his reputation. The West didn't need to go looking to Libya for oil. They already had it.

Whoever wrote the article needs to go away and look at just where the US buys it's oil from. The majority doesn't even come from Africa or the Middle East. It comes from the Americas.

^^ Or maybe they'll call him blind.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/

BBC news front page.

Top story - "Rival Forces Battle for Abdijan".

It's been there all day.



MSNBC news front page.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/

Top story - "Massacre in Ivory Coast: At least 800 killed in one town"

It's been there all day.




http://www.france24.com/en/

France 24 news front page.

Top story - "Gbago Clings onto power"

It's been there all day.


Maybe the OP should learn how to read.

^^ You'll probably find cap28 doesn't like the West because he has been refused a visa.

It happens. They don't always let Africans settle in their countries unless they have something to offer other than whining racism and hypocrisy.

Sun of god:

Many have been rendered homeless - so go around with the worldly possessions in the back packs.

No. In those backpacks, they have their food for the day and a spare set of clothes. They take the clothes because the police take photographs throughout any trouble and they can be identified by what they are wearing. They take the food because they come from quite a distance and are there all day. They come ready for a fight.
The people rioting were almost certainly not homeless. They come from either middle-class or rich homes. Fighting on the streets is fun for them. They used to do it at football matches but the UK government cracked down on hooliganism there and made it almost impossible. Now they hide behind demonstrations and use them as a means to be violent.
The UK has a long history of organised street violence stemming from the middle and upper classes. It's youth can be very violent for no other reason than for the enjoyment of being so.

cap28:

got every right to be here man AND i also have every right to criticise the system - those are the perks of living in a reasonably free society

Like the Libyan people did?
You are such a hypocrite. You hide behind the excuse of freedom of speech and yet protect a regime that allows no verbal dissent and which ruthlessly tortures and exterminates any opposition.

cap28: we are a conquered people

No. You are conquered. Conquered by ignorance, stupidity and racism. Don't use the word "We". The majority of us are nothing like you.

birdman:

I'll let you do the research on China. Trust, but verify 

Maybe you should do some research, man.

China spends more on it's internal security budget than it does on national defence. That means that the state is spending more money to protect itself from it's own people than it spends to protect itself from outsiders.

I think even the dumbest Nairalander can read between the lines on that one.

birdman:

8000 civilians in a month! If you believe this is possible, barring a mass extermination plan like gassing or mass graves, you need to have your head examined.

One word - Rwanda.

8000 is nothing to a regime that wants to kill it's opposition. Absolutely nothing. They could do it in the blink of an eye.

I'm not saying that it has happened but it is so feasible, you don't even need to question wether or not it can be done.

cap28:

It turns out that these supposed unarmed protesters are actually well equipped and trained al qaeda operatives:


Even the mainstream western press has confirmed this:

No it hasn't.

It states that Al Qeada and the rebels both oppose Gaddafi. It doesn't state that the rebels are Al Qaeda but that they are not:

But they also agree that the leading roles in the revolution are played by a similar cross-section of society as that in Egypt next door – liberals, nationalists, those with personal experience of regime brutality and Islamists who subscribe to democratic principles.

I would point out that Al Qaeda are opposed to the majority of the regimes in the Middle East. They didn't like Mubarrek either.

aguiyi:

they should have also allowed the Arab league handle the situation in Libya.

LOL. Good joke.

The Arab League can't even handle their own individual countries. That's why they screamed and screamed for the West to intervene. Everyone seems to completely miss the fact that the West was dithering whilst the Arab League was demanding a No-Fly zone and complaining that the West wouldn't help.
Tell me, when the Arab League has ever sorted anything out on it's own.
Arab nations are too worried about giving fuel to their own extremists. They ask the West to act and when it does, they appease those extremists by doing a complete turnaround and stating that the West should stay out. The West does their dirty work for them and then gets the blame.

As for who takes over Libya when/if Gaddafi is ousted, that should be for the Libyans themselves to decide.

^^ Which is why, after telling me that you're ignoring me, you feel the need to reply.

I think you're confused.

Yemen and Bahrain have nothing to do with Libya. They are a totally different situation.

Let me tell you why the UN won't do anything about them. The answer is Iran in Bahrain and Al Qaeda in Yemen. The West thinks that if their governments fall, the alternative is far worse.
Not just the West as the Saudis sent their troops to Bahrain.

I could throw the accusation that you know nothing about world politics right back at you.

The real propaganda comes from Gaddafi.

I ask you: If, as he says, many civilians have been killed in the airstrikes, where are the news reports?
Do you think that he would not be crowing to the world? Do you think that there would not be pictures both on Libyan and Western TV of the casualties?
I have seen many videos of funerals of protestors but not one of a funeral of a casualty of an airstrike.

Deals have nothing to do with it. He started killing his own people. Once that happens, all deals are off the table. If Lockerbie is the motive, they would not have released the bomber and made the deals with Gadaffi would they? They would have kept him out in the cold where he had been for the last decade.

You have confused me with someone who gives a damn.
For as long as you keep posting bullsh!t, I'll keep pointing out what a cretin you are. 

Without getting into the legal aspects of the No-fly zone, what I find amusing is that the Republicans are complaining yet it was under their government that they illegally invaded Iraq.

Does anyone else see hypocrisy?

It would be great if they were to assassinate Gadaffi, but contrary to your claim, that's not what is on the table.

They have not said that Gadaffi is a target either way. That is only sensible as it keeps the enemy on the run. Have you never heard of psychological warfare. What they keep saying is that it is up to the Libyan people to remove him.

Big difference.

How are they going to impose a puppet regime? According to Gadaffi, the rebels are Al Qaeda. Do you think that the West would support an Al Qaeda government?

cap28:

the anglo americans do not want to live in a world where they are the underdogs.

You know nothing of the British yet you claim to live in the UK.

The average UK citizen could care less about being a powerful nation. British national psyche is always slanted in favour of the underdog.
You forget that the British had an Empire already. The largest one in history. They don't look back on it fondly but are taught to view it with shame.

The UK economy is not on the verge of bankruptcy either. The Cameron government is scrabbling the money back through austerity measures and reckon that they will have the defecit wiped out within the next 4 years. Don't you watch the news in the country you live in?