Mariory:

cap28 being schooled!

morpheus24 gotta say I admire your patience.

about time. enough of listening to the poor misguided troll.

Mariory:

cap28 being schooled!

morpheus24 gotta say I admire your patience.

kodewrita:

about time. enough of listening to the poor misguided troll.

In the country of the blind, a one eyed man is king!!!
Two blind mice following a one eyed fool, no wonder many of you never progress in your lives.

cap 28. I've read some drivel here on nairaland but your inane ramblings are really up there with the best of them.
You have no clue whatsover how politics work and you have a very, very tenuous grasp on facts. Those "facts" that you are in possession of you have twisted to fit your ignorant conspiracy theorist agenda.

Let's look at some of them shall we?

Unlike the agents of western imperialism who run nigeria, Gadaffi is actually using the monies he generates from oil revenues to build useful infrastucture projects within Libya which actually benefit the people of Libya.

No he hasn't. He has spent money on keeping those who prop up his government happy. For example, his tribal home of Sirte has received immense funding whilst the East of the country receives very little. He is a typicval dictator in this respect as he pays to keep his power base whilst weakening his opponents through poverty.

why the unbeleivable speed on the part of the US/UK govt to intervene in Libya on supposed humanitarian grounds when they failed to do the same thing in the case of rwanda

"Unbelievable speed"? You're joking, right? The US and UK have done nothing but dither and hesitate through the whole Middle East crisis (let alone the Libyan one). What "intervention" has actually taken place? The answer is - none. Even their diplomatic rhetoric is hesitant. One day it is No Fly Zones and the next day they are saying that they can't put No Fly Zones in place without UN approval. For you to suggest that the West has had any major input into the crisis on the ground in Libya at the moment shows breath-taking ignoarance. About the only thing that they've done is removed their own nationals.

but my point is if the US are hypocritically claiming that they are going in to Libya on humanitarian grounds in order to remove a dictator who oppresses his own people

What? Which planet do you live on? On the one I live on there is no US involvement in Libya. They haven't gone into Libya and have stated that they have no intention of doing so. Again this is a breath-takingly ignorant statement and the complete opposite of the actual truth.

prove it to me with substantiated evidence that Gadaffi is according to you " recruiting foreigners to kill his own people" prove it to me - i want SUBSTANTIATED EVIDENCE BASED ON FACT NOT HEARSAY -

What do you call fact? The Libyan ambassador to Mali stating that mercenaries have left that country to fight for Gadaffi? He already has. Or how about the Mali foreign minister stating that many Taureg tribesman have gone to fight for Gadaffi?He already has. Or how about Taureg elders themselves stating that their villages are devoid of young men because they've gone to fight Gadaffi? They already have. Or maybe the Libyans themselves have captured foreign mercenaries and gone to the media with it. Yes. You guessed it. They already have.
But here's the best bit of proof. It's called HISTORY. Gadaffi has a HISTORY of employing foreign fighters to fight his battles for him.
Jesus. At least do some research before spouting off.

Elsewhere you claim that Gaddafi has not used his airforce and airstrikes. Again, there is so much evidence that he has, you look like a fool. Videos of Libyan jets dropping bombs on Libyan targets are very hard to refute, yes?

It seems your hatred of the West clouds your judgement. Very ironic when your location shows that you are living in their house and eating from their dinner table.

Bastage:

cap 28. I've read some drivel here on nairaland but your inane ramblings are really up there with the best of them.
You have no clue whatsover how politics work and you have a very, very tenuous grasp on facts. Those "facts" that you are in possession of you have twisted to fit your ignorant conspiracy theorist agenda.

Let's look at some of them shall we?

No he hasn't. He has spent money on keeping those who prop up his government happy. For example, his tribal home of Sirte has received immense funding whilst the East of the country receives very little. He is a typicval dictator in this respect as he pays to keep his power base whilst weakening his opponents through poverty.

I suppose the construction of the Great Manmade river was spent "on keeping those who prop up his govt happy":

The Great Man-Made River (GMR, النهر الصناعي العظيم) is a network of pipes that supplies water to the Sahara Desert in Libya, from the Nubian Sandstone Aquifer System fossil aquifer. It is the world's largest irrigation project.[1]

According to its website, it is the largest underground network of pipes and aqueducts in the world. It consists of more than 1,300 wells, most more than 500 m deep, and supplies 6,500,000 m³ of fresh water per day to the cities of Tripoli, Benghazi, Sirt and elsewhere.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Manmade_River

Now lets have a look at some of the towns that receive fresh water supply from this structure:  Adjabiya (north eastern Libya), Benghazi (north eastern Libya) Tobruk, Jaghoub (north eastern Libya) Kufra (north eastern libya)

is it me or are all these towns in the east of libya?

Now lets see what the western press had to say about this great acheivement in 2006 when they were still on good terms with gadaffi:

In August 1984, Muammar Al Qadhafi laid the foundation stone for the pipe production plant at Brega. The Great Man-Made River Project had begun.


Click here to see a map of the pipeline network
Libya had oil money to pay for the project, but it did not have the technical or engineering expertise for such a massive undertaking.

Foreign companies from South Korea, Turkey, Germany, Japan, the Philippines and the UK were invited to help.


It is impossible not to be impressed with the scale of the project
In September 1993, Phase I water from eastern well-fields at Sarir and Tazerbo reached Benghazi. Three years later, Phase II, bringing water to Tripoli from western well-fields at Jebel Hassouna, was completed.

Phase III which links the first two Phases is still under construction.

Adam Kuwairi, a senior figure in the Great Man-Made River Authority (GMRA), vividly remembers the impact the fresh water had on him and his family.

"The water changed lives. For the first time in our history, there was water in the tap for washing, shaving and showering," he told the BBC World Service's Discovery programme.

"The quality of life is better now, and it's impacting on the whole country."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4814988.stm

Also Libya has the lowest infant mortality rate and the highest life expectancy in the whole of Africa.

It also has the highest gross domestic product (GDP) per capita in the whole of Africa.

Now are you going to turn around and tell me that the only beneficiaries of all this development are tribes in the west where  his  "power base" is located ?

"Unbelievable speed"? You're joking, right? The US and UK have done nothing but dither and hesitate through the whole Middle East crisis (let alone the Libyan one). What "intervention" has actually taken place? The answer is - none. Even their diplomatic rhetoric is hesitant. One day it is No Fly Zones and the next day they are saying that they can't put No Fly Zones in place without UN approval. For you to suggest that the West has had any major input into the crisis on the ground in Libya at the moment shows breath-taking ignoarance. About the only thing that they've done is removed their own nationals.

Lets restrict the discussion to the Libyan situation, shall we? You say the west have dithered and hesitated since the supposed revolution in Libya.  Would  you call the imposition of immediate economic sanctions on Libya, cutting off cash flows to Libyan central banks , stepping up NATO surveillance on the coast of Libya dithering ?

How about the SAS forces that were sent by the UK (who were subsequently captured by Libyan rebels in the desert)  would you call that dithering on the part of the UK?

How about the fact that the UK frigate Westminster and the Royal Fleet Auxiliary ship Argus have been sent to the area

How about the fact that as we speak briitish aircraft  and 600 troops  are on 24-hour standby in Malta  - do you call that dithering and hesitant behaviour?

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2011/mar2011/huma-m11.shtml

What? Which planet do you live on? On the one I live on there is no US involvement in Libya. They haven't gone into Libya and have stated that they have no intention of doing so. Again this is a breath-takingly ignorant statement and the complete opposite of the actual truth.

Really so what was this about:

Also today, Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said the U.S. is "reaching out" to Libyans trying to organize a post-Qaddafi government and is "ready and prepared to offer any type of assistance."

Clinton told reporters traveling with her to Geneva for a U.N. meeting Monday on Libya that "we are just at the beginning of what will follow Qaddafi."

Also today, Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said the U.S. is "reaching out" to Libyans trying to organize a post-Qaddafi government and is "ready and prepared to offer any type of assistance."
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/02/27/politics/main20036923.shtml

and this:

Speaking in Cairo today, Senator John McCain, R-Ariz., and Senator Joe Lieberman, I-Conn., said that the U.S. should do more to help Libyans fighting to overthrow Qaddafi.


In an interview Sunday on CNN's "State of the Union," Lieberman pushed for more forceful action, including imposing a no-fly zone and arming Libyan rebels.

"The world has to do more," he said.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/02/27/politics/main20036923.shtml

I know what you're going to say - but the US have not physically put boots on the ground.  Fine BUT the UK has because as i said above british SAS soldiers were captured in the libyan desert only last week, furthermore one of them even had a note on him from David Cameron to the rebel leaders!!!!!:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2011/03/08/spy-held-in-botched-sas-mission-in-libya-had-a-signed-note-from-david-cameron-115875-22973769/

the only breathtaking ignorance being displayed here is yours , you definitely can not be living on the same planet as everyone else.

Elsewhere you claim that Gaddafi has not used his airforce and airstrikes. Again, there is so much evidence that he has, you look like a fool. Videos of Libyan jets dropping bombs on Libyan targets are very hard to refute, yes?

Again you demonstrate that you have problems wiht basic comprehension, here is what i said:

did Gadaffi launch airstrikes against UNARMED PROTESTERS? the answer is no, this has since been corroborated by the Russian military who were monitoring all air activity over libya on the day that these alleged attacks were supposed to have taken place.
In addition even the US Department of Defense was forced to concede that such attacks could not be confirmed.

Secretary of Defense Robert Gates was asked recently "Do you see any evidence that he [Qaddafi] actually has fired on his own people from the air?" to which he responded by saying, "We’ve seen the press reports, but we have no confirmation of that." Admiral Mullen added, "That’s correct. We’ve seen no confirmation whatsoever."

http://www.defense.gov/transcripts/transcript.aspx?transcriptid=4777

second issue:

did gadaffi SUBSEQUENTLY launch attacks on ARMED REBELS: yes, why?  because at this point the libyan govt were no longer dealign with unarmed protesters but an armed insurrection which is classified as treason.

 

i know english is not our first language but read things thoroughly, let the words sink in and think before opening that giant trap you call a mouth before vomitting crap

It seems your hatred of the West clouds your judgement. Very ironic when your location shows that you are living in their house and eating from their dinner table.

What is ironic about exercising freedom of speech? every civilised nation on the earth recognises the right of freedom of speech, do you have a problem with people expressing their views? if you dont like hearing views which dont conform to your primitive and backward perspective why don't you f.ck off to some totalitarian backwater or stay in nigeria where censorship, intimidation and murder are the order of the day

cap28:

I suppose the construction of the Great Manmade river was spent "on keeping those who prop up his govt happy":

Now lets have a look at some of the towns that receive fresh water supply from this structure:  Adjabiya (north eastern Libya), Benghazi (north eastern Libya) Tobruk, Jaghoub (north eastern Libya) Kufra (north eastern libya)

Water is a necessity. It is not a luxury as you seem to believe.

Also Libya has the lowest infant mortality rate and the highest life expectancy in the whole of Africa.

So what? The US has a higher rate still yet they're bad guys according to you.

It also has the highest gross domestic product (GDP) per capita in the whole of Africa.

Not really that suprising when Libya is sitting on the biggest oil reserves in the whole of Africa. But why don't you tell the truth and admit that the GDP is a pittance to what the people should really be getting. Libyans should be far, far richer than they actually are. They should be up there with the Gulf Arabs. But they're not, are they.

Now are you going to turn around and tell me that the only beneficiaries of all this development are tribes in the west where  his  "power base" is located ?

The vast majority of Libyan expenditure goes to the West of the country. Now and again, a bone is thrown to the East. Why do you think that it is the East where the revolt is centered, you slowpoke?

Would  you call the imposition of immediate economic sanctions on Libya, cutting off cash flows to Libyan central banks , stepping up NATO surveillance on the coast of Libya dithering?

The same sort of sanctions that were placed upon Mugabe? Yet you say that the West never acted on African cases. Also, the sanctions are not on "Libya". They are targetted against the regime. There's a huge difference, although I wouldn't expect someone so poorly educated to know that.

How about the SAS forces that were sent by the UK (who were subsequently captured by Libyan rebels in the desert)  would you call that dithering on the part of the UK?

Total and utter dithering. So badly prepared that they were picked up the second that they landed. But that's besides the point. It wasn't even a military mission (as you claim). It was diplomatic. Not only incorrect on your part but also irrelevant. You're not doing very well are you?

How about the fact that the UK frigate Westminster and the Royal Fleet Auxiliary ship Argus have been sent to the area

How about the fact that there is normally a far greater contingent of UK warships in the vicinity? The gateway to the Mediterranean is Gibraltar. It is a huge UK naval base. One frigate and a supply vessel is hardly a military task force is it?

How about the fact that as we speak briitish aircraft  and 600 troops  are on 24-hour standby in Malta  - do you call that dithering and hesitant behaviour?

LOL. You slowpoke. You not only believe a conspiracy website but you misread it. The Black Watch are not in Malta. And do you know what "being on stand-by" means. It means someone said "We may have to go to Libya one day". Nothing more. As for the aircraft in Malta, again you show no knowledge of the subject. They are transport planes and are/were being used to removed foreign nationals.

I know what you're going to say - but the US have not physically put boots on the ground.  Fine BUT the UK has because as i said above british SAS soldiers were captured in the libyan desert only last week, furthermore one of them even had a note on him from David Cameron to the rebel leaders!!!!!:

Not a military operation so as I've already pointed out - irrelevant.

why don't you f.ck off to some totalitarian backwater or stay in nigeria where censorship, intimidation and murder are the order of the day

LMAO. As one who supports dictatorships over democracy, I'd say you have a problem with hypocrisy. You'll need to get over your bigger problem of lack of intelligence before you can address that though.

Bastage:

Water is a necessity. It is not a luxury as you seem to believe.

water is a luxury if you live in an arid region at such close proximity to the sahara desert.
in your own country your own leaders are incapable of providign its citizenry with something as basic as constant electricity.
Isnt it funny how you dont hold your own leaders to the very high standard of accountability that you hold leaders of other countries?

So what? The US has a higher rate still yet they're bad guys according to you.

Just in case you werent aware the US is a developed industrialised nation, Libya is a developing nation just recovering from almost 15 years of US imposed economic sanctions - and to think this is the person calling someone unintelligent 

Not really that suprising when Libya is sitting on the biggest oil reserves in the whole of Africa. But why don't you tell the truth and admit that the GDP is a pittance to what the people should really be getting. Libyans should be far, far richer than they actually are. They should be up there with the Gulf Arabs. But they're not, are they.

but in your own country (which is the 8th largest exporter of crude oil) your leaders choose to divert billions of dollars in oil revenues into their personal bank accounts while the majority of nigerians live in squalor, Gadaffi at least provides his people with affordable housing, social services and builds useful infrastructure.  do you see why i think you might be one sandwich short of a picnic?

The vast majority of Libyan expenditure goes to the West of the country. Now and again, a bone is thrown to the East. Why do you think that it is the East where the revolt is centered, you slowpoke?

Mumu, keep crying more than the bereaved, your own country is like a cesspit and you have the guts to stand in judgement on a leader of a country who did more for his people than your own leaders could ever do in 10 lifetimes,  look at what your own "leaders" do with your own oil revenue :

Toward the end of 2008, about $30 billion sat in Nigeria’s Excess Crude Account, a government fund of extra revenue that exceeds what the government has budgeted from the projected price of oil.

When oil prices are high, money flows into the account, and it becomes an irresistible, unaccounted — for jackpot, especially for the largely autonomous governors of Nigeria’s 36 states, according to financial analysts and good-government groups.

From $30 billion, the fund had trickled down to about $450 million by mid-2010, according to Veronica Kalema of Fitch Ratings, which late last year downgraded Nigeria’s outlook from “stable” to “negative” partly because of the vast and largely unaccounted outflow from the Excess Crude Account.

By the beginning of this year, the fund had trickled down to about $300 million, according to reports in the Nigerian media. Officials with the Finance Ministry did not respond to calls for comment this month, but about $15 billion was spent in 2010 alone, Ms. Kalema said.

Some of the vast pile of cash, perhaps $5 billion to $8 billion, has been spent on so-far unfruitful efforts to upgrade Nigeria’s feeble power output, which remains no better than that of a mid-size American city for a nation of over 150 million people, Africa’s most populous.

But the rest, some $22 billion or more, remains largely unaccounted for.

“Where the hell did the remaining $22 billion-plus go?” asked a foreign-based adviser to the Nigerian government who asked to remain anonymous because of his continuing relationship with it. “Most of the remaining $22 billion was drawn down by the state governments without any particular projects to spend it on, just on the basis of, there’s money sitting in the accounts, let’s draw it down.”

It is entirely possible that nobody has a clear picture of what has become of this vast sum after it was parceled out at meetings of the state governors.

“It’s basically free money,” said another financial consultant who has advised the Nigerian government. “Once you get it, there are no checks and balances on what happens to it.” The results, or lack of them, are visible in places like this steamy state capital at Nigeria’s southern edge. Empty grandiose shells — the unfinished hotel looks like a giant waffle cone -tower over swamps, near brand-new poured-concrete government buildings alongside ramshackle corrugated-metal-roofed shacks.

http://www.vanguardngr.com/2011/02/of-nigeria%E2%80%99s-oil-money-and-misapplication/#

The same sort of sanctions that were placed upon Mugabe? Yet you say that the West never acted on African cases. Also, the sanctions are not on "Libya". They are targetted against the regime. There's a huge difference, although I wouldn't expect someone so poorly educated to know that.

YOu really do have a problem with basic comprehension, i said the west failed to intervene in Rwanda to stop the genocide of 1 millions tutsis in a space of 2 months - twit.

Total and utter dithering. So badly prepared that they were picked up the second that they landed. But that's besides the point. It wasn't even a military mission (as you claim). It was diplomatic. Not only incorrect on your part but also irrelevant. You're not doing very well are you?

So diplomatic missions are now undertaken by special forces officers?
So these "diplomats" preferred to arrive by helicopter and land in the middle of the libyan desert  in the dead of night?  I thought diplomats used airports like everybody else?
Also are diplomats in the habit of carrying multiple passports together with espionage and reconnaissance equipment and WEAPONS?

Here is how these "diplomats" were described in the independent press:

The bungling bunch, are thought to have been assembled by the "Secret Intelligence Service",
The"SIS collects secret intelligence and mounts covert operations overseas in support of British Government objectives", states their website.

YOU'RE not doing very well are you?

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=23660

LOL. You not-so-smart person. You not only believe a conspiracy website but you misread it. The Black Watch are not in Malta. And do you know what "being on stand-by" means. It means someone said "We may have to go to Libya one day". Nothing more. As for the aircraft in Malta, again you show no knowledge of the subject. They are transport planes and are/were being used to removed foreign nationals

mumu here is the main source from the daily mail:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1363187/Libya-unrest-UK-spies-SAS-troops-poised-help-Libyan-rebels.html

The fact of the matter is that british troops are on standby - hardly the actions of a govt who are dithering dont you think?
Transport planes lol - do transport planes conduct air surveillance:

It is understood that the UK is more likely to supply air-to-air refuelling planes and AWACS spy-in-the-sky aircraft to any No Fly Zone operation.
These planes are already flying around Libya's air space monitoring Colonel Gaddafi's use of his air force and helicopter gunships.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1363187/Libya-unrest-UK-spies-SAS-troops-poised-help-Libyan-rebels.html#ixzz1GQ2Qy7D7

LMAO. As one who supports dictatorships over democracy, I'd say you have a problem with hypocrisy. You'll need to get over your bigger problem of lack of intelligence before you can address that though.

I would say that if there is anyone who is lacking in the intelligence department it is clearly you, like the fool you are you open your gob and spew pure gibberish before even attempting to put your "brain" into gear  - word of advice - learn to read and UNDERSTAND english before displaying your below average iq on a public forum.

Buffoon. Because the right wing tabloid press reports something it is true?
Yet these are the same right wing tabloid newspapers that you accuse of lies and deception.
Which way do you want it? They either lie or they tell the truth. You can't just pick and choose the bits that you like. That would make you even more uneducated than I first believed possible.

BTW. The Daily Mail is right wing and seen as a joke by most of the UK population. How do I know that? Because I live there, you dribbling cretin.

@bastarde

i genuinely believe that you are innocently ignorant of the bigger picture. Hence, in need of some fundamental lesson in the West Hegemony and conpiracies to dominate the world order.

Have you heard of the following:
Manifest destiny
Monroe doctrine

for you to understand what going on with the wikileak revolution you first have to read up on the connection between US CIA's Kermit Roosevelt and Mossadegh's Iran

cap28:

In the country of the blind, a one eyed man is king!!!
Two blind mice following a one eyed fool, no wonder many of you never progress in your lives.

unfortunately I define progress differently. Progress is schooling in your country, getting a great job there and steadily becoming a force to reckon with in a place where you have every right to be there and every chance to be king not cleaning toilets by days and posting articles by night in a cold, xenophobic, atheistic, depressed foreign land.

In spite of your attacks we refuse to be convinced by your drivel.

If there's any potential conspiracy in this issue, it is the possibility that the world would deliberately allow Ghaddafi to crush the rebels to let the status quo continue and keep the oil out of the hands of potential Al qaeda sponsors. I wont be suprised if the US deliberately allow Ghaddafi win without enforcing a no-fly zone. Its definitely more advantageous to the US, Italy (biggest libyan trading partner) and other mediterranean nations to have him there rather than a populist government that might be less favourable to israel or the US. God forbid the magreb become liberated and activist in orientation.

Not to worry, there are crackheads like you to egg him on anyway.

cap28:

In the country of the blind, a one eyed man is king!!!
Two blind mice following a one eyed fool, no wonder many of you never progress in your lives.

Whoah!. Did you come up with that all by yourself. Remarkable!

All Hail CAP28,  the Messiah of the illterate people of Africa!, the King of FACTS and true PAN Africanism, All Hail the liberator of the Dark Continent from the ignorance the IMPERIAL ARMY has cunningly propagated on civilizations of developing nations.

We grovle at your magnificence

morpheus24:

Whoah!. Did you come up with that all by yourself. Remarkable!

All Hail CAP28,  the Messiah of the illterate people of Africa!, the King of FACTS and true PAN Africanism, All Hail the liberator of the Dark Continent from the ignorance the IMPERIAL ARMY has cunningly propagated on civilizations of developing nations.

We grovle at your magnificence

Hahahahahha, Brilliant!!!
It is a shame he seems to be the only one who cannot see through his own hypocrisy.

People love to talk without being objective. Lets consider the pros and cons of the no fly zone. Who are the most beneficiaries of this oil rich country in the event of war, why are there selective approach to insurrections i.e isreal - palestine, bahrain, hutu -tutsis? Why is the west always at the forefront of deposing leaders of oil rich nations and others not willing to be their stooges at the slighest opportunity of insurrections i.e Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Cuba e.t.c IT IS BOLDLY WRITTEN ON THE WALL. Oil, oil and more oil for the western countries and their oil companies and more income for western nations and orgnisations dealing in hitech ammunitions of war. Though i do not support Gadaffis sit tight regime and attacks on his people but AMERICAS VERSION OF DEMOCRACY IS TO SUPPORT A PUPPET REGIME TO DO THEIR BIDDING.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXbCwq4ewBU

[flash=400,400]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXbCwq4ewBU[/flash]

Cap28 burbles on about the UK launching airstrikes from Malta.

What he doesn't tell anybody because he's too stupid to know is that no military operation (including staging) can take place in Malta.

It is a neutral country. It will not allow military operations to be undertaken or launched from it's soil.


http://www.maltatoday.com.mt/news/national/malta-will-stay-neutral-but-support-%E2%80%98every-effort%E2%80%99-to-help-libyan-civilians-gonzi


Caught in yet more ignorance and lies Cap28?

Lol cap28, save your energy. guys are just trying to rile you up.

cap28

The articles that i have referred to on this thread are written by some of the most knowledgeable, erudite minds in the world - are you familiar with the works of Michael Parenti, Webster Tarpley, Noam Chomsky, Tariq Ali, Michael Engdahl or Michael Hudson?

@cap28
I admire your reading list and I'll like to recommend the work of the late Palestinian Scholar- Edward Said( culture and Imperialism). He's an interesting and compelling Scholar. I'll rather him amongst intellectuals like Noam Chomsky et all, than Tariq Ali. That's not taking anything away from your drift
You may be right that in contemporary Nigeria, we do not read enough and that's because our people have ascribed the usual 'Nigerian' "utilitarian" 'value' to everything including 'intellectual' pursuits like reading. It's no wonder we are 'poor' and vacuous.

cheikh:

cap28
@cap28
I admire your reading list and I'll like to recommend the work of the late Palestinian Scholar- Edward Said( culture and Imperialism). He's an interesting and compelling Scholar. I'll rather him amongst intellectuals like Noam Chomsky et all, than Tariq Ali. That's not taking anything away from your drift
You may be right that in contemporary Nigeria, we do not read enough and that's because our people have ascribed the usual 'Nigerian' "utilitarian" 'value' to everything including 'intellectual' pursuits like reading. It's no wonder we are 'poor' and vacuous.

thanks Cheikh, ill have a look at Edward Said's work. Have you read anything by the nigerian academic Chinweizu Ibekwe - if yes what do you think of him?

I like Tariq Ali's analysis of middle eastern politics, with regard to crititque's on western imperialism Parenti is brilliant - here is a link of one his lectures:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6573660441809242121#

cap28

Have you read anything by the nigerian academic Chinweizu Ibekwe - if yes what do you think of him?

I have read most of his works including his work on the power of women .  I also liked his work on de-colonising the African mind and literature;'The West and the rest of us' etc.
Sincerely, we don't have many 'thinkers' or 'intellectuals' like him around within the African sphere nor in the black world. We do not appreciate people like him or such pursuits in our midst. We are truly a conquered/defeated people. Intellectual rigour let alone creativity is not exactly acceptable. Mediocrity is normal and 'natural'. It's a shame.
Have you seen the debate/discussion  on the ' confirmation of the Nigerian diplomat' by the Senate and some NLders justifying mediocrity.?

cheikh:

cap28
I have read most of his works including his work on the power of women . I also liked his work on de-colonising the African mind and literature;'The West and the rest of us' etc.
Sincerely, we don't have many 'thinkers' or 'intellectuals' like him around within the African sphere nor in the black world. We do not appreciate people like him or such pursuits in our midst. We are truly a conquered/defeated people. Intellectual rigour let alone creativity is not exactly acceptable. Mediocrity is normal and 'natural'. It's a shame.
Have you seen the debate/discussion on the ' confirmation of the Nigerian diplomat' by the Senate and some NLders justifying mediocrity.?

Cheikh i couldnt agree with you more, Chinweizu is the only nigerian intellectual to date whose views i respect.
You are 100% right we are indeed a conquered and defeated people - Chinweizu actually stated that if black africans are unable to produce at least one industrialised nation by 2050 free from neo colonial control black africans should prepare themselves for extinction at the hands of the stronger nations . At first i thought this was chinweizu engaging in scare mongering but when i read a document known as NSSM 200 - which recommends the implementation of depopulation measures in third world countries with high populations i realised that there is a lot of truth to Chinweizu's prophesy. If you read this document you will find that one of the recommendations suggested is to reduce the population of various listed countries (nigeria is one of them) using various methods ranging from war, famine and control over food supply , when i checked to see who actually controls the worldwide production and supply of food i discovered that they are all american owned multinationals.

cap28:

Cheikh i couldnt agree with you more, Chinweizu is the only nigerian intellectual to date whose views i respect.
You are 100% right we are indeed a conquered and defeated people - Chinweizu actually stated that if black africans are unable to produce at least one industrialised nation by 2050 free from neo colonial control black africans should prepare themselves for extinction at the hands of the stronger nations . At first i thought this was chinweizu engaging in scare mongering but when i read a document known as NSSM 200 - which recommends the implementation of depopulation measures in third world countries with high populations i realised that there is a lot of truth to Chinweizu's prophesy. If you read this document you will find that one of the recommendations suggested is to reduce the population of various listed countries (nigeria is one of them) using various methods ranging from war, famine and control over food supply , when i checked to see who actually controls the worldwide production and supply of food i discovered that they are all american owned multinationals.

Cap28 its always a joy to know that there are africans out there who use their brains and intellect!

Your above statement says it all especially as regards how the WEST is trying so hard to make our Zimbabwean revolution suffer a STILL BIRTH!

The shakels are almost off its the mines we are now dealing with!

Lwandle:


Cap28 its always a joy to know that there are africans out there who use their brains and intellect!

Your above statement says it all especially as regards how the WEST is trying so hard to make our Zimbabwean revolution suffer a STILL BIRTH!

The shakels are almost off its the mines we are now dealing with!

psychophant

who keep deleting my post?

Its a MESSAGEBOARD creep. Knock off the overly nigerian seriousness.

Lwandle:


Cap28 its always a joy to know that there are africans out there who use their brains and intellect!

Your above statement says it all especially as regards how the WEST is trying so hard to make our Zimbabwean revolution suffer a STILL BIRTH!

The shakels are almost off its the mines we are now dealing with!

thanks bro, i appreciate your support.

Interesting that people are painting Ghadaffi as a leader who didnt care for his people.

While this can be argued in different directions, let me ask a question. In all your travels (as i know Nigerians are well traveled), how many Libyans do you see looking for visas to other countries to migrate permanently, living illegally in another country or claiming asylum for fear of persecution? Go check the figures if you arent sure and educate yourself.

While i cannot defend or attack Ghadaffi for being a dictator (as I dont know enough on that issue), I do know that the people in his country had a decent quality of life (better than my beloved country Nigeria).

Now due to certain reasons being argued on this forum, Ghadaffi is now being painted as a leader who raped and pillaged his own people. Talk about power of the press.

morpheus24

Whoah!. Did you come up with that all by yourself. Remarkable!

All Hail CAP28, the Messiah of the illterate people of Africa!, the King of FACTS and true PAN Africanism, All Hail the liberator of the Dark Continent from the ignorance the IMPERIAL ARMY has cunningly propagated on civilizations of developing nations.
We grovle at your magnificence

@morpheus24
Pls, my bros, you are a very smart guy and you know very well that the so called 'information' or 'facts' are out there for everyone who cares to know; but of what use is information if not organised and disseminated within a 'context' by your own kind as to make it 'viable' or understandable? You may be right to call it 'propaganda' but is propaganda in itself especially of the 'variant'/type in this forum which you disagree with wholly bad? How many of us(Nigerians) really have access or know about the things you perhaps think are 'easy' accessible common knowledge?. I do understand you I hope , appreciate your concern and exasperation about 'tired' conspiracy theories. I think you're about solutions and not 'sermons' but I guess it's because you are already well informed and perhaps a little impatient with what you consider common knowledge etc. It's already stated that the reason and purpose is 'educational'. What exactly do you find offensive or insulting to your sensibilities? I believe you are very smart and can easily afford to overlook 'information' you find not too useful to you. There's no need to engage in petty sarcasm and insults. Be the bigger person and let it pass over you . It's unnecessary.

cap28

At first i thought this was chinweizu engaging in scare mongering but when i read a document known as NSSM 200 - which recommends the implementation of depopulation measures in third world countries with high populations i realised that there is a lot of truth to Chinweizu's prophesy.  If you read this document you will find that one of the recommendations suggested is to reduce the population of various listed countries (nigeria is one of them)  using various methods ranging from war, famine and control over food supply , when i checked to see who actually controls the worldwide production and supply of food i discovered that they are all american owned multinationals.

@Cap28
There are loads of things happening around us that we are unaware of. The African population control programme has been in existence for as long as I can remember. The aspect of it that I worry about is the language and vocabulary that the whole programme is couched in. Africans have adopted or rather have been convinced [/b]that we are over populated hence our myriad of never ending socio-economic problems etc. The best population control or contraception is [b]Education and socio-economic empowerment. Sincerely, it's cheaper than so called "AID" by do gooders. We can achieve any socio-economic goals we set our collective mind on if we are really a serious 'nation' or people. I believe war, famine and control of food supply as you pointed out^^above is a waste of resources but then if one looks at it from a different perspective, it's not too far fetched for the military industrial complex. Wars and famine are extremely profitable for companies engaged in the supply chain sadly.

Whatever anyone may think of Chinweizu and his ideas, we cannot discard or fault him, because some of us may find them 'outlandish' or too 'far out' etc because of our own limitations intellectually.After all, so called Christian Pastors or in Nigerian parlance 'Man of God'/ prophets are everywhere telling gullible people all manner of tall stories or visions etc that never happen yet they are seen as credible respectable members of society, yet our own well informed intellectuals are taken for granted/overlooked. It's the value system that's questionable. Perhaps we value things we can 'touch' and 'see' than so called 'Ideas'. We are yet to realise that we are actually at 'WAR" as a people hence our lackadaisical and unserious behaviour as a people- government and citizens in Africa. Sincerely, it's beyond so called 'democracy' issues as most people think sadly.

We were warned: But we dont listen,

[flash=300,300]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lu7pGDXsKiI[/flash]

cheikh:

morpheus24
@morpheus24
Pls, my bros, you are a very smart guy and you know very well that the so called 'information' or 'facts' are out there for everyone who cares to know; but of what use is information if not organised and disseminated within a 'context' by your own kind as to make it 'viable' or understandable? You may be right to call it 'propaganda' but is propaganda in itself especially of the 'variant'/type in this forum which you disagree with wholly bad? How many of us(Nigerians) really have access or know about the things you perhaps think are 'easy' accessible common knowledge?. I do understand you I hope , appreciate your concern and exasperation about 'tired' conspiracy theories. I think you're about solutions and not 'sermons' but I guess it's because you are already well informed and perhaps a little impatient with what you consider common knowledge etc. It's already stated that the reason and purpose is 'educational'. What exactly do you find offensive or insulting to your sensibilities? I believe you are very smart and can easily afford to overlook 'information' you find not too useful to you. There's no need to engage in petty sarcasm and insults. Be the bigger person and let it pass over you . It's unnecessary.

You hit the nail on the head regarding the highlighted areas.

My concern has always been to present information in its broadest of contexts so that you are truly informaing people and truly challenging them to think deeply and critically about any subject matter.

Telling people "one sided" so called facts is in my humble opinion not the way you make someone self aware of their surroundings or themselves. its self limiting

My 2 cents

morpheus24

My concern has always been to[b] present information in its broadest of contexts [/b]so that you are truly informaing people and truly challenging them to think deeply and critically about any subject matter.

Telling people "one sided" so called facts is in my humble opinion not the way you make someone self aware of their surroundings or themselves. its self limiting

@morpheus24

You are very correct ^^ with the bolded above and you and I know that the internet is not exactly the appropriate platform,  especially for our part of the world where information has always been one dimensional; our people have always been passive consumers of all manner of pseudo-knowledge, education or information. I'll like to believe that anyone with half a brain,  resourcefulness and access to the net in our kind of environment should be discerning enough to think critically without guidance I hope. On the other hand, your apprehension is understandable and very much in order considering the state of our formal education in Nigeria. I am also worried too
My concern is beyond Libya