selencious:

@ Staln and Beefy!!Why don't Y'all mind your Business? Go get a job. Its between I and Kunle and not you. So, kindly mind your business.
Besides, I and kunle are dudes;what we say here is our business and not urs okay;learn to mind your business. Just like I was bfn Abuzola at the other thread;People who don't mind their biz came in. At last, they made a fool of themselves while I and Abuzola made up;cos we dudes. So, I ain dealing with you guys okay and I don't wanna deal with you.
@Kunle- U remain mi dude!!!!
@Staln and Beefy-Mind your business and piss off.

In case you hadn't noticed, this is a public forum where input is accepted from all and sundry. The OP raised a topic that is pertinent to our country and frankly speaking everyone is entitled to chip in. Trading insults detracts from the v serious main topic in hand. If you feel that others chipping in is them not minding their own business then perhaps 'you just don't get it'.

Getting back on topic. Food for thought - Nigeria has one of the highest concentrations of churches (well at least in Lagos) in comparison to a lot of other countries and yet it ranks the lowest on the International Transparency ratings. It seems all the bible we've been carrying about is either not rubbing off on us well at all OR we are seriously mis-interpreting it's message.

KunleOshob:

Evidently you are the daft and brainwashed brain damaged dumboron that can't read the bible for herslf and understand it. You have to wait for wolves in sheep's clothing to twist it for you b4 you can understand it and you have the Audacity to come here and accuse some one much more enlightened than your miserable self of being dumb. 

@selencious - the biblical way of addressing differing views as expressed in 2 Tim 2: 24 "And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,"

Hurling insults at others damages your credibility regardless of whether or not what you're saying is right or wrong.

Having said that, it's high time there is strong scriptural debate particularly with regards to how Christianity is run in 9ja, unfortunately there are just too many charlatans in the field. KOshob is right, in this day age you can't afford not to open your eyes and actually research what the scriptures are saying for yourself. If you get deceived, you have no-one to blame but yourself for not doing your own research. If the Bereans could do it in their own day, why is it so difficult (or wrong) for Nigerians to do the same??

Now now people - let's try and keep it all together!

The title of the thread was to reflect on the fact that traveling is going to get a bit more cumbersome; if you're likely to be affected it's food for thought. Who knows there may be still avenues for ordinary citizens like us to perhaps make a difference as to whether or not this is made compulsory etc but if we're stuck throwing mud at one another etc, it will just pass us by, get implemented and we'll all have no choice but to display our wobbly/dangly/well-toned (take your pick) bits for the security numpties to see 

chaircover:

This is being implemented in the UK but you have an option of saying NO to it and they will carry out the old style scan instead.

This is good to know as I was thinking of driving to and from the Continent - 2000+ km (20 hours). The question is what happens when it's now made mandatory 

Old skool handcoding all the way - it frees me from the distractions of the tool. All I really need is a decent text editor - TextMate, Vim etc and I'm away.

If on the other hand you depend on web design/coding for your livelihood, then it may be best to at least familiarise yourself with tools like Dreamweaver, a few CMSs etc as hinted at by ^^^Sprumbaba

Nija4Life:


The decline in manufacturing in the UK is not so much to do with the educational system but rather the high cost of doing business for which India and China provides a cheaper and cost effective alternative.

I beg to differ on this point - part of the decline in manufacturing is that the sciences are no longer being promoted as they were. The emergence of academies is part of the overall plan to dumb down the system by offering 'vocational certificates' as a replacement for the old standard A levels. Cost is one thing but there's definitely a  dumbing down of the system and this is the route that we should not follow in Nigeria. We cannot afford in this day and age to have an under-educated (or should I call it inadequately educated) populace.

Schindler's list

^^^

If we want to be honest with ourselves - was the title of the post really a problem say 20-30 years ago? Is there anyone participating in this thread that can say that the standard held by the teachers back then was as bad as it is now?

Bear in mind that this is the same educational system that produced the likes of Profs Chike Obi, Awojobi, Emeagwali, Barr. Fawehinmi etc to name a few.

The point made about nurturing those students for whom English is a struggle is important and that's why the educational system needs to up its game. If however they can't be bothered to provide good facilities for tutor/pupils then things like having a vocational approach to education are a pipe dream.

Dumbing down the system though is not the answer - look at what's happening in the UK that has gradually been doing the same. Now there is virtually zero to non manufacturing taking place, very little creative work going on; all they have left is the service based economy while the likes of India, China, Korea and some parts of Europe where they do not play with education are still powering ahead.

tensor777:

There is no need here to settle for the line of least resistance. In this case it is up to the LASG to appoint competent qualified teachers in its schools.

Now I can say I'm not alone with my line of reasoning in this matter.

OPCman:


The only thing that can lift us up and make us reach our potentials as an educated fellow is when we start comminicating in our mother's tongue.  

LOL, It would be a blast seeing how this would be applied in fields like quantum mechanics, fluid dynamics or perhaps the intricacies of international finance, swaps, derivatives etc

Eaglebabe:

The Deputy governor shld enter class let us see what she can do.

You may find out that she is dab hand at teaching the intricacies of 'chop I chop' politics and the very subtle nuances of feathering your own nest while in public office while simultaneously trying to make a show of actually doing something for the public good.

I don't know her personally and she probably has a good heart - the only problem is that we 'Naija' are good at identifying problems (lamenting this and that) and not really following through with the necessary action to correct the problems.

Nija4Life:

Unfortunately if you aspire to deliver a world class education like most of us want to see in our country then you must look up to countries who have seen and done it before. The Almajiri example you gave swept me off my feet but listen I do know of the Ibo tribe who made bombs from local technology during the civil war – they didn’t do so speaking English. Those shoe and dress makers in Aba who make made in Nigeria products for decades didn’t do so speaking English either. They need support to turn small ideas into great ideas.

Good points made.

The worrying though is that if the Govt can't be bothered to do that which is little i.e. provide good facilities for both the teachers and the taught even if they are taught in local lingo; what hope is there that there will be enough support for some of the more enterprising citizens such as those you referred to in the East?

@ Nija4Life

I also think that we are looking at this topic from 2 different perspectives:

Your view seems to be that just because one bumps into someone who can't speak English well, this should not be used a yardstick to judge the individual's overall intelligence level. If this is where you're coming from, I agree with you.

My view is that the status quo of allowing current educational standards to slip and keep on slipping because English is not the student's first language etc is a big no-no.

Citizens of countries like China, Iceland etc that teach in their native languages cannot be compared with Nigeria. Those citizens tend to be hot at things like Maths & Science which is not the case in our inefficiently run Naija. When was the last time you heard of some great scientific discovery from the Almajiri community or from the nomadic school community up in the North where they are perhaps taught in their native language and at a time/place when it suits them?

PS - I respect your view though I don't totally agree with its premise.

Nija4Life:

I’m not sure what you’re on about to be honest, in my first post I did put the blame on the shoulders of the government past or present for the decay in education in Nigeria. My argument has always being in response to the Lagos deputy Gov as stated by the OP in which she seem to blame teachers lack of good English to the poor educational standards. All I have tried to do is to put things into perspective – I don’t completely agree with an educational system that judges people by their English language competency especially when it is a second language.

Your comments about the Govt being partly to blame were noted as I hope I made clear in previous posts.

My gripe is that you seem to be saying that English should not be a hard/fast measure of educational excellence - I guess on this point we can agree to disagree. Playing to the lowest common denominator because the system can't be bothered to up its game is a great dis-service to the nation's younger citizens (and hopefully leaders to tomorrow).

Nija4Life:


Our colonial past seem to have a strong influence on us, so I'm not surprised.

Can you honestly say though that the 'Colonial' schools e.g. CMS, Methodist et al were in such a decrepit state as seen in the pictures already posted?

Yes, Colonialism had its evils but then isn't it an even greater evil when after so many years of independence, the giant of Africa sees it fit to educate its children sitting on the floor in squalid buildings.

@ Nija4Life

Both countries that you referred to do differ from our own in one essential area - they have leaders that at the very least have the welfare of their citizens at the forefront of their thoughts.

Whether we teach in English or WaZoBia - the fact that the schools are in such a state of decay in a country that has oil wealth is a great indictment.

Colonialism apart, when a country such as ours is faced with such ineptitude of leadership, it's a big disadvantage to the citizens if they're unable to get themselves educated to a standard where they can compete both locally and internationally.

manny4life:

The world is is a fast changing environment and English is becoming or perhaps frequently used often and sorry if one cannot communicate fluently without the fear of being intimidated. English is not that hard to learn, so why not teach it?

Totally agree with this point.

manny4life:


This is really saddening, are those little kids sitting on the floor in a school? Several students sharing one table? That sure hell isn't a suitable learning environment.

This is a symptom of a country with a ruling class that cares not for the welfare of its citizens. They're just focussed on their own personal enrichment - good leadership is something Africa is seriously lacking at the moment.

@ Nija4Life

learning local languages is all fine and dandy if you're only thinking of trading locally. The moment you want to interact with the rest of the world though - you face a self imposed limitation.

The OP was hinting at the fact there seems to be a general level of apathy towards State level education as a whole as witnessed by the falling standards amongst those who are supposed to be vanguards of the sector. This is definitely not entirely their fault.

I would go as far as to say that if a teacher within Nigeria can't be bothered to master English as a medium of education who is to say that he/she (props to equal opprotunities) will even be bothered to ensure that whatever concepts (scientific, artistis, economic etc) are actually understand by the hungry minds under their sphere of influence.

Nija4Life:


There are many qualities you look for in a candidate for a job interview – a good communication skill is only one of them. I’m not an expert in the hiring and firing business but I’m sure most companies will consider your skills, experience, knowledge and competence for the job. An ability to speak a second language will also be in your favour.

I agree with the broader context of your reply both as it applies to the world at large and also within the whole of Nigeria as a country.

I will stress though that good spoken English is an asset not to be tossed aside. In the UK (which I believe is where you are based) I'm sure you would agree that competition for jobs is intense - a candidate who turns up for an interview (if you even get that far) and is unable to communicate reasonably well will be given short shrift - EAL or no EAL.

How does this affect us in Nigeria - the world is now a global village and you can to a certain extent compete with nationals from other countries for business and employment opportunities the world over. If you can't frame a sentence correctly due to poor educational standards, you are at a disadvantage. Perhaps the only saving grace in this case will be if you know your onions well i.e. you are a master of your domain as opposed to going to Oluwole and purchasing your certificate  

Nija4Life:


Good education does not start and end by 'good' spoken English.

Correct but it surely limits your ability to compete in the wider business world - imagine yourself as the HR officer for a company faced with interviewing 40-50 hopefuls looking for a foot in the door at your great company.

You only have openings for 2 people - how do you weed the others out?? I'll leave that as an exercise for the reader.

Princek12:

If people who schooled in Europe and America, among others, are shocked by the calamity of the pictures, then I can understand. But for people who schooled in Nigeria to act as if these same conditions were nonexistent when they went to school is to deny reality. Perhaps, the only difference from the classrooms in the pictures and the ones which were back in the day is that the olden classrooms had more desks and the floor had concrete instead of sand, but that's about it. I can understand that many diaspora Nigerians who schooled in deficient classrooms comparable to the ones in the pictures have been accustomed to seeing aesthetically sound and well furnished classrooms, so the picture of a classroom that is similarly situated to the classroom in which they schooled while they grew up now becomes offensive to them.

I schooled in Nigeria (primary/secondary and university levels). Primary/secondary learning conditions were not as bad as these pictures are now showing. The only schools that looked like this were the ones that used the 'Jakande' style of building but even then they at least had desks and chairs and 'roofs'. Besides, you could actually learn something at school.

As per the standard of education dropping sharply, that is easily believable when money that should be used to maintain and enhance the existing structures is siphoned off.

I taught in the North for a while and it was not unusual to come across students in Form 5 who could not even write down their name correctly in a simple sentence - the approach was just to push people onto the next level whether or not they merited the promotion.

One has to ask - what exactly are we re-branding? 

There have been quite a few eloquent posts on the subject matter of the thread which I will not add to but allow me to nitpick on a smallish point.

Someone has already pointed out that the title needs to be corrected except if the 'plolice' is a new form of lingo that has been circulating in 9ja that those who have not been around for a while may not know about.

Considering that the forum has an international readership - it would be nice to at least demonstrate that there is a good level of education at home in spite of what others outside may think 

chaircover:

As a barracks girl & the daughter of a retired Army officer
Up Nigerian Army & Up Nigeria.

Chaircover - is this who I think it is?

Okija_juju:

I hate it when I hear that modern parents have lost discipline and value, cos thats not true. Parents of today have learnt to treat their kids as individuals with emotions, thoughts and ideas. They have learnt to listen before making decisions. They have learnt to let the child grow as an individual while guiding them gently.

Parents of today have tried to develop a relationship with their kids. They have reduced the use of canes and whips and have resorted to other forms of punishment for wrong deeds.

I wouldnt totally discredit the methods of the parents of yesteryears cos their method actually did work for the era in which they raised their kids. Although it was forceful, brute and sometimes harsh, it did work. But the truth is that those method also did a lot of harm.

Seconded, the means/methods that some of the older generation used have resulted in 'some' people being damaged goods and unable to function properly in modern family settings.

Afterall it's the older generation that were raised in the so called 'old skool' way that have brought the country to its knees with all their looting, amala/gbegiri politics and what not. Weren't these the same set of people that woud go around saying 'we have to respect our elders blah, blah blah' - we don't see much of the home training coming into play in the political/governance arena.

There's not much point in looking back at the past with rose-tinted specs.

Guys

you might want to check this link out http://www.web2py.com, it provides an MVC framework for python programming.

Without going into the specifics of whether or not the land was actually owned by the late Mrs, this is a classic case of cutting off one's nose to spite one's face.

The country wants investors to bring in their cash and create employment opportunities; they want the 'diasporeans' to come home and fulfil their quota to the development of the place BUT are unwilling to see to it that the law of the jungle does not prevail and that people can go about their biz without the threat of blackmail and molestation from every tout that thinks there's something for nothing.

On the other hand, maybe they're just replaying what they see happening within Govt on a national level.

I tire for Naija O!

demybk:

Dear esteemed Nairalanders,

I am in the process of collating names and hit tracks of Nigerian artistes in the 70's & 80's.

Kindly help make this a reality by sending names & tracks (Nigerians artistes only!)

God bless you for your efforts.

My Love & regards,

Joshua A.

- Black Man Akeeb Kareem
- Tunde Nightingale
- Lijadu Sisters
- Victor Uwaifo
- Jimi Solanke
- Olando Julius
- Kayode Fasola
- Sunshine Sisters

You can to the list Theodora Ifudu - I remember she was popular during the eighties.

I totally agree with your sentiments about Jazz - it's just such a wonderful expression of sound.

Not being in your neck of woods therefore not sure what this time of the year is like - round here there are quite a few live gigs with some pretty amazing players.

BTW, Happy Thanksgiving in advance (or arrears) as the case may be

OvieE:


U must be an asshole. You probally denied visa hundred times and u could not make it to abroad to send money to feed your hungry lion and F ugly families.

and this is where the thread rapidly enters toilet territory and gets sucked away into the soakaway system  

tarano:

Let me see your spending profile and i will show you what you love, Nigerians in the Diaspora love the country, and have always supported the country, According to the World, in 2005, traceable remittances to Nigeria was $3Billion.

For example, the Central Bank of Nigeria, taking into consideration official and unofficial remittances, estimated that between January and June 2007, Nigerians in the Diaspora sent to Nigeria a sum of $8 billion.

Now who loves Nigeria, The politicians that sends capital abroad in oversea Banks or the Nigerian Diaspora that work his or her ass off and remit capital into the economy.

Methinks this is a clear case of people putting their money where their mouth is!

hbrednic:

then tell Tocer ( maybe he is already fighting with mosquitoes) to stop saying we hate our country.

From what I hear those 'commando mosquitoes' are some real tough buggers - they can even cut through netting in pursuit of their prey! 

londoner:

@Toc Acer, it is Nigerians in the diaspora who are demonstrating against people like Obasanjo etc when they come abroad while people back home prostrate for them.

Touche; Game, Set & Match!