₦airaland Forum

Oryah nah
Imagine the number of ladies that made her their role model!
Some even ditched their bf because of Tonto
The feminist coven is currently in disarray as more women are finally receiving and embracing sense😀😀

Once there is a denial just know it really happened!
Same way they denied the coup!

You say?
🤣🤣
This is why terrorism will not stop in the north!
Imagine the statement coming from the national security adviser?

Phools!
In this past week,Boko Haram and other splinter groups had waged unbelievable onslaught in the northern states killing more than 100 and kidnapping more than 90 people!
No single group from the Muslim community did a protest to express their frustration over the unending deaths and kidnapping in their communities!
However,they are more concerned about what is happening outside their own country!
What kind of premitive mentality do most of them have over there?

lawani:
Do you think Tinubu can not be voted out despite controlling the police? If President can be voted out then so can be the governor or local government chairman. Then in what way do you think the power of the executive over the police force can be curtailed?

1. Establishment of an Independent Police Service Commission or Authority.

"There shall be established an independent Police Service Commission, which shall be responsible for the appointment, promotion, discipline, and removal of all members of the police force, except the Inspector-General/Commissioner of Police. The Commission shall consist of members appointed through a bipartisan or multi-partisan process and shall operate free from direction or control by the executive."
Purpose: This removes direct executive appointment and disciplinary powers over police personnel, reducing patronage or political loyalty pressures.

2.Operational Independence of the Police


"The police force shall be operationally independent in the day-to-day performance of its duties, including the investigation of crimes, maintenance of public order, and enforcement of the law. No member of the executive, including the President or any minister, shall give directions to the police in respect of any specific investigation, prosecution, or operational matter."

Purpose: This explicitly prohibits executive interference in individual cases or routine policing, a key safeguard seen in models like South Africa's or India's proposed reforms.
Appointment of Police Leadership with

3.Legislative or Judicial Oversight
"The Inspector-General/Commissioner of Police shall be appointed by the President on the recommendation of an independent panel or the Police Service Commission, subject to confirmation by a two-thirds majority of the legislature (Senate/National Assembly). The Inspector-General shall hold office for a fixed term of [X] years and may only be removed for cause, following a process involving the legislature or judiciary."
Purpose: Fixed terms and "for cause" removal limits arbitrary executive firing, while legislative confirmation adds checks and balances.

4.Prohibition on Executive Use of Police for Political Purposes

"The police force shall not be employed or directed by the executive for the purpose of advancing the political interests of any person, party, or administration. Any directive from the executive to the police must be in writing, of general application, and published, and shall be subject to judicial review if challenged as unlawful or unconstitutional."
Purpose: This prevents misuse of police for election interference, suppressing opposition, or personal vendettas, with transparency and review mechanisms.

5.Funding and Budgetary Independence

"The budget of the police force shall be charged directly upon the Consolidated Revenue Fund or protected by a statutory formula, and shall not be subject to discretionary reduction or withholding by the executive without approval of the legislature. The police shall submit its budget proposals independently to the legislature."
Purpose: Financial control is a common lever of executive influence; this clause ensures the police are not starved of resources as punishment for independence.

US doesn't even need one week to wipe out Boko Haram or any other splinter groups from Nigeria!

Politicians are installing their sons in strategic positions while data boys keep hailing them!
In 10 years time,same data boys will be serving the sons of their current paymasters!

ijayalolo:
I actually like argument (that leads to learning and gaining new insights of course), but I don't argue because I want to prove a point.

This argument is all about President controlling the federal police and our state governors controlling the state police (if and when approved) and my argument and where I have some slight disagreement with you is this:

Whatever clause you want to put in the police act is welcome and good as it is in all democracies of the world BUT under the same democracy, those clauses are all under the control of the Chief Executive Officer (in this case, the governor) who the Democracy gives the absolute power to enforce the law (within his constitutional powers).
That constitutional power does not allow him to tell a police officer to just shoot someone for no reason (Don't mind my earlier metaphor). But the same constitution allows him to give order to shoot someone if he can justify it under the law that guides him as the CSO of the state.

Democracy states clearly there are only 3 arms of government, and every institution you can think of fall under those 3 with someone controlling it.

Legislature: All institutions of law making, controlled by the National Assembly
Judiciary: All legal and court processes controlled by the National Judicial Council under the control of CJ
Executive: All ministries, civil service, military and POLICE, under the control of the President. It is the president bound by law, as the constitution put it "take care that the laws be faithfully executed". and he uses those institutions mentioned to do that.

Bottom line is that as much as all clauses to curtail the excess of governors are welcome (and one of the ones I advocated is to take power away from them for some months in an election year), one of the 3 arms of the government still has to control the police, and the clearest and most straight forward one is the executive.

We just have to decide to choose the lesser of the 2 evils, the excesses of the governors or Jihadists and terrorists taking over Nigeria.
America licenced gun carrying and reduced insecurity; the trade off is the occasional gun violence witnessed every now and then (which they see is as a lesser evil)

In a democratic setup,no political office holders no matter which arm of government they belong bears such humongous powers without corresponding laws to limit or curb their excessiveness!
I still maintain that as much as control may reside with the executive arm, corresponding and unambiguous laws must be spelt out to ensure police officers carry out their duties without much interference by the executive!

ijayalolo:
Bros, so you are asking AI that question? okay, ask this too while at it. "Can President Trump fire any FBI Director who doesn't follow his orders"

Answer:
The President can fire the FBI Director at any time and for any reason.

"At-Will" Employment: Legally, the Director serves "at the pleasure of the President". While the post has a 10-year term intended to provide independence, this term is a limit, not a guarantee of job security.
Precedent: President Trump fired Director James Comey in 2017. Historically, President Clinton also fired Director William Sessions
in 1993.

What we are telling you is that the President is the chief security officer of the country and the police is a branch of it that the president controls. In fact, it is a normal Civil service. Any civil servant can disobey the permanent Secretary (who is the head of the ministry), but he/she should be ready to face the consequence (e.g, demotion, reassignment, pause on promotion) etc

Bottom line: Please quote the part of the constitution of United States that states the federal police can act independent of the president
Since you claim to know how to do research (which obviously you don't)

Ask your AI friend again the simple question that you should have in the first instance "Can a Federal Police act independent of the president in the United States?

Answer:
n the United States, federal law enforcement agencies (like the FBI or DEA) are part of the executive branch and are technically
not independent of the President under the Constitution. However, they have historically operated with a high degree of practical independence based on long-standing norms and specific legal protections.

The Legal Hierarchy
Executive Control: Under Article II of the Constitution, the President is the head of the executive branch and has the ultimate authority to "take care that the laws be faithfully executed". This gives the President the legal power to set general policy priorities and oversee federal agencies.
The Chain of Command: Most federal law enforcement agencies, including the FBI, report to the Attorney General (the head of the Department of Justice), who in turn reports to the President.

Guy you are arguing for the sake of it!
No one is saying the president or state governors don't have a level of control which was highlighted in the Al I sent you.
The issue that should be avoided is a situation where we create a law with no clause that impedes the excessiveness of political office holders!
In the US,despite the president being the one to hire and fire the director of FBI,there is a limit to his powers!

Even if a new director is appointed by the president,the director cannot go against it's limit as contained in their laws even if the president compels him to do so!

The bottom line is that as much as state policing is welcome which will assist in reducing insecurity,there must be clauses to limit it's usage by governors so that it's not used as a tool for oppression!

[quote author= post=138612121]Obasanjo, where is the power ?

Even if to say na d only thing wey Baba do for him tenure be dat,
We gonna thank him forever,
But......for where?[/quote]Making this same statement after almost 13 years of APC administration shows how incompetent they have been!
Besides,probes by your administration absolved Obasanjo of any wrongdoing unless you have new information!

Alliswell248:
Damage control by the Gbajue gang.
South south adc is supporting Amaech.

[b]Obi is a goner. [/b]He should go and beg Sowore to join his AA party.
He is always looking for free ticket to pick.

We keep hearing this narrative forever about how Obi is a goner and yet you data boys can't stop talking about him!
You cannot keep obsessing over an insignificant personality unless there is something your guys are not telling us!

lawani:
If you can't limit the President then there is no need to limit the governors or local government chairmen. Police is not the court and there is very little the police can do for the chief executive in the long run or in reality. Sacrificing security on the altar of curbing governors or local government chairmen is naive in my opinion. Civil servants including police will always work for the person that wins election. They will switch loyalty immediately another person is sworn in. The arguments against local government and state police is not tenable

What you are unwisely asking for is a recipe for disaster!
It's like devolving impunity and recklessness from federal to state!
On a norm,the unlimited powers bestowed on the president in terms of security by the constitution is flawed and it should be reviewed to ensure the president influence on policing is curbed!
Saying that this same recklessness at the federal level should now be cascaded to states and LGA doesn't solve the problem...on the contrary,the situation may get worse and lead to arnachy!
Imagine if a state governor is a Boko Haram/bandit sympathiser and he or she now has unlimited access to use police at their will!

Walahi Edo state fall hand small!
This guy should be nowhere near being an LGA chairman!
How can a man who was 'supposedly' elected by the people pay so much attention to the presidency instead of focussing on good governance in the state?
I thought yahaya was bad,this guy is unfortunately terrible!

commoditiesnig:
I think it’s premature to start comparing Nigeria system to US advanced democracy. Let’s work a way to make either regional or state police work effectively to suit our country

US police system shouldn’t be our benchmark for now

He said democratic settings and I showed him one which is the US which is the governance structure we are coping!
But if I may ask....is it wrong to copy such police structure that will ensure the powers of political officer holders are limited on the police?

lawani:
The President, Governor, LG chairmen and even university VCs should have the same control over the police that is under them. Private security firms should also bear arms as well as responsible adult citizens after a background check. The job of the police is to provide security and if the President is not using the police against his opponents then a governor or LG chairman can't. President Jonathan lost elections despite controlling the police

Are you serious with this statement of yours?
The presidency uses security operatives at will to carry out their rascality on political opponents!
A simple example is how EFCC treated former governor yahaya bello and Nasir elrufai!
Both may have questions to answer but one is free because he is loyal to the president but another is in custody because he is an opponent!
Yes GEJ could have but he refused but that doesn't mean another will not use it at their will!
This is why there should be laws to limit the powers of governors or president on policing in order to curb their excessiveness!

commoditiesnig:
State police is good BUT are our state governors politically mature to handle and manage it, that’s the issue. Absolutely power corrupts absolutely!

I only trust just handful governors to effectively handle/manage state police.

Based on research esp on the US and germany template,the president and state governors control are only limited to selection and appointment of the heads eg FBI but their powers are mostly limited to curb their rascality and it will be unwise to grant state governors unlimited access to the policing structure as this will be a recipe for disaster!

ijayalolo:
Bros which of the USA are you talking about? We are trying to inform you in case you didn't know, but this doubling down from you is beginning to sound somehow. If trump tells an FBI agent to shoot you now, he will do it immediately, if he can't then he tenders his resignation. Just to be clear, can you quote which part of the US or Germany constitution that says Ordinary police can disobey the president when even the highest ranking General will be jailed if he dared disobey the president.

In all Democracies of the world there is nothing like clause in any police, why didn't you say there is clause in the Army too that will say Chief of Defence can disobey the President's order.

Don't let the uniform the police is wearing confuse you, it is just an ordinary branch of the executive that helps to enforce the law.

Legislature Makes law through the House of assemblies
Judiciary interprets the law through the various courts and Judges
The executive enforces the law. The chief executive officer is the president for the country and the governor for the state.

You obviously seem to not know that there are limitations to the powers of the president on the federal policing agencies esp FBI!
I suggest you do more research esp the post Watergate reforms before misinforming people here!

lawani:
Yes the governor will control it for as long he or she is leader. What is wrong with that? The governor can be removed anytime and the policemen are civil servants. Apart from police any responsible person whose background has been checked should be able to bear arms. Local governments too should be able to have police. Private security firms that are licensed should freely bear arms so that people can hire them. What is wrong with all that?

In a democratic setup,governors have 'limited' control over the police as a measure to curb their excessiveness and high-handedness!
There is also the aspect of the legislative and judicary operating as an oversight on the executive with the inclusion of important clauses that impedes the governor from having unlimited access to the state police!
If a state governor is given 100% over the police,it's will most likely be used as a tool to attack political opponents and ensure the rights of citizens are stifled!
The senate must draft state police g in such a way that the governor only has limited powers not total access!

IkeOnyia:
Which clauses are in place to prevent the current federal police from political interference? The President appoints the IGP and can fire him/her at will. Where in the world is the police independent of the executive arm of government? The need for State police in Nigeria is now critical and urgent. No further delay is required.

Seems you didn't understand my stance!
I am fully in support of state policing only if there are adequate clauses that will impede the excessiveness of the state governors even if they are the ones that may appoint them!
In US which we copy our system of governance from, there are laws that impede the federal and state police from obeying the directive of the president and state governor respectively if such directives are undemocratic or go against the rights of citizens!
State policing structure without the proper framework to ensure the independence and effectiveness of the police is a recipe for disaster!

ijayalolo:
In democracy, police is just an extension of the executive, controlled by either the President or the governor, if not that is a military rule.

Note: The job of the Executive in a democracy is to enforce the law, and police is one of its branches it uses to do that

Federal police MUST be controlled by the president, state police MUST be controlled by the governor, that's what democracy says.

There is always a trade-off in every policy of the government. It is about choosing the "lesser evil"

In a democratic setup which is practiced by the US and germany,there are clauses in the police laws that empowers the IGP or state commissioner not to obey directives from the president or state governor respectively esp if such directive is seen as undemocratic and against the constitutional right of citizens!
The question is do we have such laws in our constitution?
If that's not the case,then the setting up of state policing without any unambiguous clauses that impedes the excessiveness of the governor is a recipe for disaster.

ijayalolo:
Regional police will die a natural death as there will be conflict on which governor calls the shot. There must be a chief security officer controlling them, which of the governors in the region will you give that power that will not cause issues?

Best to do is having state police. but maybe a month or 2 to any general election or statewide election, the Federal police takes over. and the state police commissioner start taking orders directly from Abuja and no more the governor.

The moment a state policing is controlled by the governor,everyone in that state will start screaming for it to be removed!
State policing doesn't imply that it must be controlled by the governor!
On a norm,no political office holders should be in charge of policing!

State policing is better if proper clauses are properly and unambiguously inputted to prevent interference from political office holders and ensure effective policing!
There can be collaboration between states in terms of intelligence sharing..however,states should operate their own security as every state possess it's peculiarity!

We have heard worse!
The fixation on Obi shows they are afraid of him!
They claim he is irrelevant but they always talk about him!
Sowore has done more in this week alone to be talked about by data boys...but the moment Obi coughs,the entire whatsapp group of apc goes on overdrive!

This is yet another indication of the failure of our security operatives and by extension the president whose constitutional duty is to ensure the safety of EVERY CITIZEN is his priority!

CodeTemplarr:
when Aregbesola, aneachi et al were very vocal.

Today APC is doing so with impunity!

Why is it so hard for the troops do the same thing in the North and SW?

see how the judiciary has been turned into a joke!

In other words,more funds get to states whose governors port to the ruling party!
This was the same thing PDP was accused of doing by APC!

brain54:
You made a sound point...



But the opposition still needs to put their house in order and show seriousness and organisation in their ability to lead from the front.


The citizens can take it from there.


Remember that opposition's responsibility is also to put the ruling government in check. A formidable opposition puts the government in check through scrutiny of it's policies, creating awareness and shaping public opinions.


Opposition has its roles so does the citizens.

A confused and ruderless opposition would become a problem to the citizens in the end!

I respectfully disagree with yet again this assertions!

In Nigeria where we have failed or failing institutions,Opposition figures and parties are just vehicles..it's the citizens that determine who leads them.
The citizens are the ones that should be trying to determine the outcome of any amendment or policies of the government not opposition politicians who have no permanent friend or enemy!

Let me give you a simple instance,October 2020 when the youths came out to protest endsars,was there a single politician in their midst?
Even Sowore that has been doing this protest like forever only came later on but was chased out as the protesters didn't want the protest to become a political rally!

Do you remember Arab springs or the Nepal or Bangladesh protest?
The citizens esp the youths of those countries led the protest without politicians which forced the ruling party to either honorably resign or run for their safety!


When the citizens of Nigeria are collectively ready to take back their country from their oppressors,they won't need a political messiah to lead from the front!

Spare me your BS!
If evil APC had promised and given you a platform to achieve your goals,you would have spoken glowingly about the party by now!
I will never forget how GEJ begged you personally but you went ahead to say all manner of things against him!

brain54:
Bunch of sycophants...


But honestly these is what opposition is supposed to be doing- putting structures in place, both formal and informal.

Atiku and Co are there whining upadan on one issue or the other rather than seriously giving APC a run for their money.


I'm so disappointed in them... maybe they think taking power from Tibunu will be child's play or taking candy from a kid.


I disappoint gan especially in atiku... obi I know before has never been creative. I don't think atiku genuinely believes he can win afterall he has given his best shots. This is his poorest attempt. Deep down inside maybe he has given up. Abi na old age sef!

Why do you guys keep waiting for opposition political figures and opposition parties to lead from the front forgetting that the real opposition should be the citizens of Nigeria,the ones that have been directly battered and bruised by the hardship brought by the current administration?

The citizens of Nigeria should collectively take their rightful positions and become very instrumental in deciding who becomes their leaders,not waiting for an opposition messiah to lead the opposition and magically save the country!

Be the opposition that you expect from your politicians!

Make Soludo kuku join APC nah
Why is he afraid of porting?