₦airaland Forum

benalvino

lets start with Ephesians 5:25-27 and 2 Corinthians 11:2
Ephesians 5:25-27
King James Version (KJV)
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;


2 Corinthians 11:2

King James Version (KJV)
2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ

Ephesians 5:24
King James Version (KJV)
24 Therefore as [b]the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
[/b]


[size=14pt]the book of ephesians and corinthians above is drawing parralel between 'submission of the wife to the husbamd' the way the 'church submit to christ'[/size]

now back to your question

in revelation the church is described as the bride of Christ... how do you think we will be one with the lord?

[size=14pt]oneness in purpose[/size], jesus exposed his beign 'one with God' here with this analogy just the way we are one with him,


john 17:20-23

[size=14pt]Neither pray I for these alone, but[i] for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 21That they all may be one; as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be one in us[/i]: that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22And the glory which you gave me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: …
[/size]

can you see the parallel drawn here "that they may be one, even as we are one"

in the revelation you quoted, there was no mention of 'church' there until proven, see them
'holy city jrusalem coming down and adorned as a bride' how is the church suppose to be coming from heaven as a bride'? who is the husband? the identity of the bride here is 'the holy city jerusalem';


Revelation 19:7-9
King James Version (KJV)
7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

Revelation 21:1-2
King James Version (KJV)
21 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

benalvino

in revelation the church is described as the bride of Christ... how do you think we will be one with the lord?

pls quote the verse

benalvino

@ bernimoor who is the husband that is coming to take his bride(the church)?

I want you to quote the particular verse you derive that so that we have basis to fall back to, i dont like empty cases that allows holes!

bidam

I rightly pointed out the fact that you were emotional in your outburst. we are here to rightly divide the word of truth concerning the trinity and so far you guys have failed woefully

im satisfied that your defination of 'failed' is your own make,and not from what we have here so far, have i engage you one on one here? show me just one area i have not answered
im waiting

benalvino

lol ate the Hebrew scriptures we have to deal with God... we are not dealing with Jesus. but still this doesn't change the point at hand that you guys cant answer.

who told you that jesus is not diiscussed in OT?

Malachi 3:1-3
New King James Version (NKJV)

[size=14pt]
3 “Behold, I send My messenger,
And he will prepare the way before Me.
And the Lord, whom you seek,
Will suddenly come to His temple,
Even the Messenger of the covenant,
In whom you delight.
Behold, He is coming,”
Says the Lord of hosts

[/size]

.[/size]


compare darby translations or dualrheims 1899 one of the oldest bible
Darby Bible Translation

Behold, I send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me; [size=14pt]and the Lord whom ye seek [/size]will suddenly come to his temple, and the Angel of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he cometh, [size=14pt]saith Jehovah of hosts[/size].

' the Lord', whom you seek,(JESUS/son/My messenger) is different from 'the Lord of hosts'(the father) can you see the harm caused by deliberating changing and removingGods name? and this afford you and other trinitarians to manuever things the way you want, but not to me anyway so God is the messenger sending himself, what a shame! anyway this

benalvino

the post you put there didn't even tell us anything. People significantly differentiate FALSE gods from the TRUE God. Yahwh was removed cause of translational issues. What is there?

lets see whats there in A and B below;


(A)
Exodus 6:1-3
New King James Version (NKJV)


2 And God spoke to Moses and said to him: “I am the Lord. 3 I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, as God Almighty,[size=14pt] but by My name Lord[/size][a] I was not known to them.

can you see that in A above, you can see how that verse was rendered useless, when the lord says 'im the lord', but my name 'lord' i was not known(forget the uppercase/lowercase rendering of LORD,it sounds same thing and hebrew words are not case sensitive), definately God wants his name to be distinct, but trinitarians who forms the commitee that revised kjv killed the real intention of God and the name he wants to be adressed


compare with the old version

(B)
Exodus 6:1-3

King James Version (KJV)


2 And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the Lord:

3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty,[size=14pt] but by my name Jehovah[/size] was I not known to them.


the old version (king james version 1611) states, "but by my name Jehovah was I not known to them"


you knew that if the YHWH or JHVH was fixed the way it was in the old versions throughout, benalvino, you seem to be more convienient with that

Bidam,

or what do you call yourself, see your vommit below;

now this thread has been derailed by one bernimoore into personal unwarranted attacks and name calling instead of delving into the topic at hand.SMH!!!

you see how biased and hypocritical you can be,Bidam, was the post directed at you? you were blind to all my rebbutals from page 5 keeping to the topic, and you saw when true2God keep attacking watchtower without bases,it shows you enjoyed a one sided show of shame of your friend, were you were blind! when i said lets keep to the topic in page 6 and told benalvino that true2God will not contribute anything and thats just it, but he choose to always direct attacks to their governing body, how can one learn a thing or two from someone like that who is not better than a mentally sick person like him? i showed true2God series of predictions of his church (assemblies.of God) about 1914 quoting their magazine weekly evangel, but he could not find an answer, then i moved on to continue posting responses to benalvino, and the discussion was good,

im not a jehovahs witness but im impressed with their argument and until i find a superior argument, and i think im the one who can choose 'who' to support. if true2God wants to go the scam way im ready for him as i have enough record of his church from my brother, , but if he choose to focus on the topic good good for him.

@benalvino

how does this address[b] the issue that the father is God the son is God yet we have 1 God[/b]... same with Lord. same with the almighty... need I go on

some bible translators of which trinitarians are majority are guilty, a good reader will dig and not remain complacent like you, lets see why Gods name was removed, and confused with jesus's name;

[size=14pt]Preface to the New Revised Standard Version[/size]

This preface is addressed to you by the Committee of translators, who wish to explain, as briefly as possible, the origin and character of our work. The publication of our revision is yet another step in the long, continual process of making the Bible available in the form of the English language that is most widely current in our day. To summarize in a single sentence: the New Revised Standard Version of the Bible is an authorized revision of the Revised Standard Version, published in 1952, which was a revision of the American Standard Version, published in 1901, which, in turn, embodied earlier revisions of the King James Version, published in 1611.




Careful readers will notice that here and there in the Old Testament the word Lord (or in certain cases God) is printed in capital letters. This represents the traditional manner in English versions of rendering the Divine Name,

"[size=14pt]The use of any proper name for the one and only God, as though there were other gods from whom the true God had to be distinguished, began to be discontinued in Judaism before the Christian era and is inappropriate for the universal faith of the Christian Church[/size]".
http://www.bible-researcher.com/nrsvpreface.html

having treated the supremacy of the father over the son, can we now treat the confusion caused by early trinitarian regarding the name of God that gave you some unfounded guts now, but are not fitting into the bible chemistry

@true2God

Lol. The discussion is not for the sake of Ijawkid, truthislight or Barrister but for the gullible JW who hav been deceived by the watchtower org. I hope most of dem are learning certain things here and hav many questions to ask their elders in their next meetings.

true2God

this is for you to answer;[b] a collection from one of your former member; im dying with laughter here;

Benny Hinn assemblies of God ordained minister;[/b]

Heresies

There are several Biblical HERESIES which are prevalent in the Assemblies of God churches. For example: they teach that you can lose your salvation. They also practice the unbiblical confusion of speaking in tongues. In addition, the Assemblies of God (Pentecostals, etc) are known for their hands-on faith-healing services. One of the biggest wolves in the Assembly of God camp is Morris Cerullo. Other wolves within the Assemblies of God religion are John Harris, Jim Bakker, Tammy Faye Bakker, Byron Klaus, Gene Scott, Bill Hamon, Jimmy Swaggart and Karl Strader (the tip of the iceberg of many scoundrels in the Assembly of God denomination who use the sheep for their own gain). Some of the other ecumenical leaders in the Assemblies of God mess are Dr. Henry J. Lyons; Billy, Ned and Franklin Graham; and Robert Tilton to name a few. Elvis Presley was also a member of the Assemblies of God. Benny Hinn, one of the most hideous false prophets of our time, is also a member of the Assemblies of God. Please read Billy graham exposed.

I plead with you if you are involved with the Assemblies of God to get out quickly. As listed above, there are MANY different branches of this wayward group (Pentecostal, Promise Keepers, etc). I am NOT going to go as far as to call ALL of them a cult, but Benny Hinn is certainly on his way to hell. I believe that the Bible draws the line of "cult" at the moment anyone ADDS something to simple faith in Christ. For example: The Seventh-Day Adventists are a cult (a false religion) because they ADD the Sabbath day and good works to faith in Christ, which certainly is NO faith in Christ. Roman Catholicism is a cult. Lutheranism is a cult. Episcopal churches are a cult. Greek Eastern Orthodox churches are a cult. They all ADD the holy communion and baptism to faith in Christ. So I wouldn't go as far as to say that the Assemblies of God are unsaved, but they are out on left field doctrinally.


LOSING SALVATION HERESY

I personally believe that MANY Assemblies of God followers are NOT saved. There is a serious doctrinal problem with the belief that you can LOSE YOUR SALVATION. Listen friend, if I didn't have to do GOOD WORKS to get my salvation, then how can I lose my salvation by doing BAD WORKS? It's just not good Bible to teach that a person can lose their salvation! We are saved by God's grace through childlike faith in the Saviour (Ephesians 2:8-9). To teach that a person can "fall from grace" is unscriptural. Just as the physical birth CANNOT be undone, so likewise the spiritual birth CANNOT be undone. It is heresy to teach that a person can be born again and then lose that new birth because of sin or apostasy. The TRUTH is that many people "fall away" from the things of God because they were never saved to begin with (1st John 2:19). God NEVER disowns one of His own children. Jesus PROMISED that we would never perish...

"And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." —John 10:28

Jesus NEVER said anything about "losing" our salvation. If we could lose our salvation, don't you think the Bible would have much more to say about the matter. The FACT is that the Bible has NOTHING to say about losing one's salvation. Those who "fall from grace" are those who have rejected the gospel and is so doing have damned themselves. No believer can ever fall from grace. Once a person is saved, they are SAVED FOREVER. Then Bible is clear on this issue of eternal security.

I sincerely question the salvation of anyone who believes that they have to MAINTAIN a certain level of spirituality to remain saved. I simply do NOT believe that such a person is saved. The Methodist church, United Methodist church, and Free Methodist church all believe that a person can lose their salvation if they fall away from the Lord. It is in effect, a "works" salvation. The TRUTH is that salvation is a FREE gift (Romans 5:15). A gift is received, not earned. A true "gift" CANNOT be lost or taken away if it was truly a gift to begin with. God's free gift of eternal life was paid for by the blood of Jesus Christ. Once we receive that GIFT by faith, it can NEVER BE LOST! I sincerely question the salvation of the Assemblies of God. I KNOW I am saved by the grace of God, I do NOT worry about losing what I had nothing to do with in the first place. Salvation is of the Lord, not man. Our part is to simply trust.


SPEAKING IN TONGUES HERESY

In Acts chapter 2, we read that the Apostles spoke in tongues (languages). Is there a gift of tongues? Yes, there is a legitimate gift of speaking in tongues, but it is NOT the foolish jibber-jabber nonsense of the Assemblies of God, and wayward ministers like Creflo Dollar. The Bible could not be more clear if people would just read it at face value. Acts 2:6 clearly reads that "...every man heard them speak in his own language." Did you reads that...IN HIS OWN LANGUAGE! As the Apostles spoke in tongues, the multitudes of people from at least sixteen different nations each heard the gospel presented IN HIS OWN LANGUAGE...

"And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God." -Acts 2:7-11

Notice the phrase in Acts 2:11, "our tongues." The crowds heard the Apostles preach in their own native tongues, not some unknown heavenly jibber jabber. There was NEVER any heavenly languages spoken that no one understood and required an interpreter. There is a drastic difference between Biblical tongues and the heretical speaking in tongues of the Assemblies of God churches.

The "speaking in tongues" which the Assemblies of God and the Pentecostals foolishly practice are UNKNOWN tongues, not anything found on earth. Supposedly, those unknown tongues can only be interpreted by ONE spirit-filled member of the congregation. The Apostle Paul speaks common sense to us Corinthians 14:19...

"Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue."

Carnal believers try to imitate the gifts of the Spirit, but the gifts of God are not given for entertainment as the Pentecostals use them for. ALL the gifts of God for for ONE purpose, soul winning. The purpose of the tongues in Acts chapter 2 was to get people saved (and at least 3,000 people were saved on the day of Pentecost). Pentecost was a specimen day for all the world to see of what can happen when God's children pray, trust God, and work together to spread the gospel. Please note that these Christians were all united in truth, not error. There were no false religions or liberal churches involved. It is WRONG for believers to be unequally yoked together with unbelievers or wayward religions like the Assemblies of God. I would rather be divided over truth than to be united by error. The Apostle Paul addressed the carnality of the church at Corinth...

"How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying."

The church of Corinth was your first unofficial Charismatic, Assemblies of God, Pentecostal, Apostolic Faith...church. They were an entertainment church, much like the Pentecostals churches today with their musical bands, speaking in tongues, healing services, etc. It is unfortunate when churches have to deteriorate into entertainment centers to attract new members. They try to "spectacularize" Christianity. This is why the Assemblies of God religion is so popular, it offers a lot of entertainment (a lot of weird entertainment I might add).

The carnal believers in the Corinthian church were trying to reproduce the gift of tongues but they weren't in any spiritual condition to see any gifts of the Spirit. What they needs was a Billy Sunday revival. 1st Corinthians 3:1 tells us that they were carnal. This church was in bad shape, a house divided. Some said they were with Apollos. Others said they were with Paul. Still other's were claiming to be with Cephas (1st Corinthians 1:12). They were suing each other, eating meats offered to idols, allowing open adultery within the church. Should it be any surprise that they were also caught up in a speaking in tongues heresy. The speaking in tongues practiced by the Charismatics, Pentecostals and Assemblies of God are of the devil.


FAITH HEALING SERVICES (DELIVERANCE)

Listen friend, God's power is not at our disposal to entertain the masses and get filthy rich. Morris Cerullo is proof of what I am saying. Cerullo is a phony, certainly no man of God. There is a spirit at work indeed, but it is the spirit of Satan. Do you really believe that God would allow his power to be abused to make a bunch of sinister ministers filthy rich? No way! Benny Hinn is without a doubt one of the most famous heretics within the Assemblies of God organization. The Bible does teach in James chapter 5 that the prayer of faith shall heal the sick, but this does NOT give anyone a right to FALSELY use the gift of healing to make MONEY! Ever notice that the people healing has a headache for 10 years or a bad back for 15 years? I'd like to see someone get a missing hand back.

Though the Bible does teach us to pray for the sick, there is NO GUARANTEE that everyone will be healed. These heretics that teach that Jesus died on the cross to guarantee us physical healing are loony. Sickness and death are the results of sin. We cannot escape sickness and death. Though God does sometimes heal the sick in answer to prayer, it is inevitable that sickness and death will eventually come knocking at our door to stay.


@ true2God

dont you know that you and church are immoral? clean to even their hands are soiled? shame on you!

@true2God

The last edition of watchtower i read, the JW told me that the right pronuncaition for YHWH is Jehovah, but u hav been consistently using Yahweh in ur response.

Ok hw do u want the bible translators to render YHWH?

since you cannot do without watchtower, they cause you sleepless night, , the way antagonist hated jesus,ok and instead of facing fact, you choose to attack, let me ask you this, but know in your mind that you are the one diverting the tread, because like i said, you never answer not even one question;

you are an assembly of God bona fide, from ab-initio, and that is already confirmed on this tread;

you accuse watchtower of many things that bothers on direction, and your church AOG gave free hand,ok, lets assume that the watchtower were wrong, lets see how right your church rendered its own people;

Assembly of God denomination who use the sheep for their own gain). Some of the other ecumenical leaders in the Assemblies of God mess are Dr. Henry J. Lyons; Billy, Ned and Franklin Graham; and Robert Tilton to name a few.

Elvis Presley was also a member of the Assemblies of God. Benny Hinn, one of the most hideous false prophets of our time, is also a member of the Assemblies of God. Please read Billy graham exposed.





http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Wolves/assemblies_of_god.htm

@benalvino

forget the question mark on my post...

interesting!

this is what we are saying... that God is the savior, jesus is the savior... yet we have one savior Jesus and one savior the father.

very good, God/father issued jesus/son the authority to carry out an assignment, apart from the fact that God and jesus can be refered to as 'one' with God, the way we believes who receives faith through christ are[size=14pt] one [/size]in GOD and Jesus unity,...see what i mean; john 17:21; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and[b] I in thee[/b], that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

[size=14pt]can you see the parallel usage of 'one'[/size]

that is where 'the will' of the supreme that sends jesus comes in, jesus said 'i have come to do my fathers will'

conclusion here is that, the oneness that jesus shared with GOD/father is 'concerning the PURPOSE' i have shown that clearly;

Any objection?

very interesting, page 20 now, and we have just started!

benalvino

Why should he care about his will? Is it the mission for God to save mankind?

yes, let me show you now that it was the father's volition to save mankind by sending the son jesus,who obeyed to carry out the assignment;

[size=14pt]John 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.
[/size]

but to save the world through him(jesus)

note the use of the word 'through' the usage shows that jesus was not the original 'innitiator of the assignment' but as 'a vendor' of the assignment, as the parragraph put it

pls, always indicate father/son whenever you are using God for both, for clarity pls

you breeze through this in your post, see the hidden fact


1 cor 8:6

6 yet for us there is but one[b] God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live[/b]; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

note the usage, God/father= 'from' whom (originator) and jesus/son=through(vendor)

notice the word 'through' as i will be reffering to the usage thereafter, thanks

@deSika

This is all about logic. After all, if there is one God and if there are three persons in the Bible called God, then the three persons must be the one God. It is no surprise that I have yet to hear a coherent answer. I carried on an email dialog with one JW and after several months she ended our discussion with, “You just like to go around and destroy other people’s religions!”

show where the 3rd person is called God/god, even in your comprehension you posted i cant find any, we only saw two discussed and rendered God/god respectively, if you cant show where the 3rd beign the holy spirit is God/god or reffered to in the bible as God quoting the verse clealy stating it, then your logic lacks the required data talkless of an accurate result. it means that you forcefully insert the third God as the holy spirit without proof.

@benalvino

Did you get high on 7up?
the bible said he was obedient to death... is it my fault to state what the bible says? he has the power do destroy man kind but he humbled him self even to the point of death. I don't see what you are complaining about here...

honestly you don't what to argue about... the Point is he made him self humble... period. whether I forget to put the English the way you like it... it doesn't matter.

your post is dry! not even a single bible quote.

what is the big deal? you guys cant understand by default what I mean?

it was you who choose to misunderstood the fact, thereby making mockery of jesus

when they wanted to kill him he can easy destroy them

very good, but why didnt he kill them, lets see what is holding jesus;

but he humbled him self to the point of death... carrying the cross.

ok lets see what bible say concerning what you just said;

hebrews 5:7

"During the days of Jesus' life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with fervent cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and [size=14pt]he was heard because of his reverent submission[/size]".

who was jesus offering prayers and petition? is it himself? answer!

and who was jesus submitting to?

obeying whose instruction to die? whose will? lets see;

Matthew 26:39

Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet [size=14pt]not as I will, but as you will."
[/size]
why will jesus 'affirm' his fathers's will concerning his death, and not his own volition? keep running pls

benalvino

to death... you see how low he went?

you see how tight you are boxing yourself to a corner, bolded above is a pure diversion

if you can remember what culminate into this was that you said christ 'made himself' to take the form of a man, that is he obeyed himself to take mans form, now you changed that he is obeying death, How can he be obeying the instruction of death brother? when you really knew that what we are talking about is about obeying an instruction to carry out an assgnment, now see other translations explaining better who jesus was obeying his instruction to come down and take the form of a man

phill 2:8



New Living Translation (©2007)
he humbled himself in obedience to God and died a criminal's death on a cross.

English Standard Version (©2001)
And being found in human form, he humbled himself by[b] becoming obedient to the point of death[/b], even death on a cross.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by[b] becoming obedient to the point of death[/b], even death on a cross.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death-- even to death on a cross.


NET Bible (©2006)
He humbled himself, by[b] becoming obedient to the point of death-[/b]-even death on a cross!

christ was obedient to the father ..[size=14pt]to the point of death[/size]! not obedient to death

if someone his obedient they do it by choice easy as that. some angels are disobedient

obedient to who?, to himself? oya talk now?

benalvino

He made him self nothing...

He made him self nothing, what stops you quoting the whole passage? see the bible verse that fears you a lot

lol cant you get that?

Who, being in very nature[a] God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, [i]he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature[b] of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by [size=14pt]becoming obedient[/size] [/i]to death—
even death on a cross!

Guy you they play with English you think say I be mumu... No worry look for

you only dodge the point and it pops up again

Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

8[size=14pt] And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death,[/size] even the death of the cross.

what do you learn from the red fonts?

it clearly shows he made him self... like that. all the verse you brought no one shows who made him like that... but this one is telling you he made him self now you want to use English to twist... lol who made him so if he didn't drop all his deity?

see the bolded you quoted above, you are only reading for reading sake, if someone is obedient, what does that tells you? answer now?

@benalvino

i think you knew what you are in for, you go argue tire here and i think and believe that we are going to page 50 and above,and we are are ready, the falsehood lies of trinity must die a natural death, here we go..

@benalvino

Again

when paul was saying this below, jesus was already in the the heaven, yet he was 'reffered to by paul as having 'a head' which is God and has glorified 'His servant', Jesus

1Corinthians 11:3

But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

@benalvino


so if the head of christ is God, can christ also be equal with God?

again;

Acts 3:13
The God of Abraham and of Isaac
and of Jacob, the God of our
forefathers, has glorified His
[size=14pt]servant, Jesus[/size], whom you, for
your part, delivered up

answer pls!

benalvino:

learn English... Jesus was made. who made him that way? in phil 2:5-11 it says he made him self

.

stop confusing yourself, quote the full phrase "made himself of no reputation" not that 'his own volition' but did not made himself a bad reputation of beign disobedient to God like satan

phil 2:7

But made himself of no reputation, and took on him the form of a servant, and was made [/b]in the likeness of men:

as you can see after the comma, the word reads 'and was made' which would have been superflous if the idea in that sentence means that 'his made himself' of his volition, it will not read 'and was made'

to cap it all, see 2:8;


New International Version (©2011)
And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death-- even death on a cross!
New Living Translation (©2007)
[b]he humbled himself in obedience to God [/b]and died a criminal's death on a cross.

English Standard Version (©2001)
And being found in human form,[b] he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point [/b]of death, even death on a cross.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
And being found in fashion as a man,[b] he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

benalvino:

... Show me a verse where it states the father is better than Jesus in God's form? Infact when he says he is the son of God he is claiming same nature and equal to Go

you requested for a verse, let me supply 2 verses among many;
when paul was saying this below, jesus was already in the the heaven, yet he was 'reffered to as having a head' which is God and has glorified 'His servant', Jesus

1Corinthians 11:3

But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

so if the head of christ is God, can christ also be equal with God?

again;

Acts 3:13
The God of Abraham and of Isaac
and of Jacob, the God of our
forefathers, has glorified His
[size=14pt]servant, Jesus[/size], whom you, for
your part, delivered up

answer pls!

@benalvino

and yet Philippians 2:5-11 says he made him self that way.

are you saying that hebrews 2:9 which confirm that 'jesus was made' contradicts Philippians 2:5-11?

@benalvino

benalvino: again what you people do is misunderstand the trinity...[b] The first person of the trinity is the father... greater than the son [/b]and the 3rd is the holy spirit... 3 of them are the 1 GOD... Jesus the WORD of GOD. Jesus is an attribute of GOD... that is why he is the same nature are GOD...
I did not contradict my self... if you like misunderstand simple English.

oh, so you (a trinitarian)believed that the father is greater than the son? but yet equal with the son, thats strange and different from other trinitarians

and yet Philippians 2:5-11 says he made him self that way.

you lied, phillipians never said that

benalvino; he made a decision to become man

let me prove this above wrong with ease;

hebrews 2: 9;

But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

jesus was made (who was made) to become human and taste death, it was'nt him that decides, but he accepts his fathers decision

thats why while on earth before the death he said, 'father, remove this cup from me, not by my will but your will' luke 22:42

@benalvino

see obvious contradictions here in your statements;

benalvino;

1# he came to show us the way to the father... and he was obedient to the father..

2# he made a decision to become man... So God had to exalt him when he save man...

3# he made him self not instructed... you are finding fault from that verse

on the issue of who decide wheather jesus was sent or he sent himself hear yourself: .......'he came to show us the way to the father', .....'he was obedient to the father', you contradict yourself again that 'he made him self not instructed' , my brother, why are you doing this to yourself, if you make this varying statements to your child, he will be pissed with you!

benalvino

was jesus being made,or instructed to take the role of a bondservant thereyby obeying his superior father or 'it was of his own volition or decision to do so, answer pls

philipians 2:6 kjv
Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,

lets see other translations;

New International Version (©2011)
Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
New Living Translation (©2007)
Though he was God, he did not think of equality with God as something to cling to.

English Standard Version (©2001)
who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,


king james version was the only one giving a different view here but it changes nothing;
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
who, existing in the form of God, did not consider equality with God as something to be used for His own advantage.

7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. 9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name,

benalvino, [size=14pt]give an honest answer here, who was jesus obedient to (bolded) is it himself, or a superior?
[/size]

he became man for me and you... he dropped is deity so become ordinary man... so because of that God will exalt him above all things. so Jesus was God then dropped it and become a man. and he is Gonna get back to the place he was before... at the right hand of GOD.

why does he need another God to exault him? answer pls

so therefore it should have said it is clear that it doesn't include Jesus him self who created everything...

why are you going back? we have settled the issue of (everything/all things) as used in the context as relates to jesus to still have exceptions using 1 cor above, maybe you accept or not is your right, but my job is to defend and further defend the truth here.

@benalvino

see why i can boast of winning this argument;

1 Corinthians 15:27;

For he (God) "has put everything under his (christ) feet." Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him (christ), it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.

# if God himself, who put everything under Christ is not included, in 'everything' mentioned in that context,cant you see that the 'word' although is a God in (john 1:1-4)but is different,and a subject, different from God the father and are distinct an not the same in the sense that 1 cor 15:27 above says[size=14pt] "it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ".[/size]

try and see the relationship clearly here, my brother try and move on, or show me a strong counter proof.

@benalvino,

where are true2God and itsfacts, you can see now that when it comes to the heart of discussion, they were lost! they wont contribute a dine!

what a joke... very bad excuse I may say. when there is an exception the bible doesn't forget to put it... using the verse as an excuse is a shame.... you guys are writing to the bible. do want to say they forget to put [other]? lmao that is a very bad excuse. the contradiction stands.

you are defeated! i was expecting a further detailed argument using bible verses to further prove your point, it only exposes you guys clinging only to some few bible verses that seems to suite your views, but when one put up the courage to reconcile using the bible verses, you flare. instead of talking of joke here, pls come on with more superior argument to win me to your side, okay.

@benalvino

everything I say is not attack but aid to the discussion here. I am pointing out evidence of contradiction and their attempt to eliminate the contradiction by adding words to the bible

i have shown you 10 bibles that are different on the issue of additions that KJV did concerning 1 john 5:8 on page 8 of this tread, you dont see anything wrong with that.

now can you show me just two different bibles that are 'word for word'? so that we can see if you are correct, i have ask before, but you dont seem to give answer