₦airaland Forum

malvisguy212:
God say, their is NO savior , ONLY him, yet the bible say Jesus is the savior, what does it imply ? God the son did not override the person of christ, they are both distinct. Have you ever witness a possess man being healed ? Prior to his deliverance, he will speak some unthinkable word. Is he the one speaking or the demon who possess him speaking ?

Jesus is fully God and Fully man, the fact that he was born at a specific period of time prove he was a man. And the fact that He was from old, whose origin is not from this world, prove he is God. As long as jesus is a man, surly he pray, eat, walk and fast, He does so because that was the duty of man. The context of john 17 is "jesus pray for the believers" and when He call the father, the only true God, He does so because it was the duty of All men to call God the only true God.

so for instance God is wise and I am called wise then I am god too..the problem is you guys take the book too literary and then ask another person to pray for guidance before reading the bible

He is fully God and fully man....how nice..like having infinite knowledge and at the same time having limited knowledge,like being limited by time and space and at the same time being unlimited,

How is it possible that a deity is worshiped as a god by people and this deity on the other hand worships another deity as a man....still concocted bro

malvisguy212:
there is difference between God the son and christ, christ is a man, it was God the son who incarnate in jesus christ. But how can Jesus’ statement about His Father being “the only true God” be harmonized with statements made by thomas,peter concerning the deity of Christ ? It was in the very same gospel of john that the deity of christ is well proven. Jesus statement was made in the opposition of the world's false God. Isaiah 43:11 God say "beside me their is NO savior" YET peter, one of jesus disciple and paul say jesus is the savior

Who is the speaker of the quranic verse I paste ? Who is the "HIM" and the "HE" ? If the 'him' or 'he' is Allah , why will allah switch from plurality to singularity ?

how has being a savior made him a deity worthy of worship--is savior another word for God?

Are you trying to say it was christ who was speaking in john17:3 and not God the son. So God the son is a different being and christ is another being..and both of them do make their statements in the bible..never knew..

Wow how concocted and confusing

The his,the him and the We(singular we of royalty) all refer to the same being God

malvisguy212:
alright, explain this:
Surah 17:1
Glory be to HIM Who made HIS servant to
go on a night from the Sacred Mosque to the
remote mosque of which WE have blessed
the precincts, so that WE may show to HIM
some of Our signs; surely HE is the Hearing,
the Seeing.

The last text is even more confusing. If you take
that sentence seriously, then there are at least
four persons involved here. Person A to whom
glory is given, person B is the servant of person
A, and persons C and D (or more) who are the
subject and the speakers of this whole
sentence. Actually, who is "him"? … so that WE
show to HIM some of … surely HE is the …
seeing. Doesn’t the structure suggest that the
HIM and the HE should be the same?

The Hebrew word for GOD ("Elohim" is plural
in form:
Deuteronomy 6:4 says: "Hear, O Israel: The
LORD [singular] our God [ELOHIM-plural] is ONE Lord."

The Hebrew word "ONE" found in this verse was use to describe a UNITY made up of
more than one component. Example of this same word (one) use in the bible was in Genesis 11:5:

Genesis 11:5 "Behold, the PEOPLE IS ONE."

The people (plural) at Babel were united together as ONE. It was a UNITY, but it was made up of many people (a plural unity). I don't want to say much, I promise to open a thread about trinity.

first..you confirmed that the elohim is plural in form...and deuteronomy saith the lord our God is one God..

The question is, when elohim(plural) is used does it mean christ(god the son as you call him) and God the father---if so,, deuteronomy could be explained "correctly" to mean both jesus and God are one...

Now moving to john17:3---JESUS said...and this is life eternal that they know YOU(God the father) THE ONLY TRUE GOD and jesus christ(another personal) whom you(God the father) SENT

Looking and john17:3 one is compelled to ask,,if christ and God the father are/is one how come christ himself addressed God the father as THE ONLY TRUE and and referred to himself as SENT By God the father

Is there a hierarchy ? In that God the father has more authority than God the son and God the father now become the superior God and god the son the inferior

This is clearly shown when christ summoned God the father saying "IF IT bE THY Will let this cup pass over me" ---here god the son falls under the will and authority of God the father and has no authority of his own

Is God the son the inferior god and God the father the superior God or is the muslim man correct when he referred to christ as a prophet and a messenger("sent"-john17:3) of God

---second---as for the koranic verse you posted there is no standard literature which tags this form of expression as incorrect, it is infact very correct

malvisguy212:
jesus is the eternal God, from ancient of days, whose ORIGIN is NOT from this world. That's the biblical meaning of ancient of days.

Let me explain something to you, if your canal mind can comprehend this:

The phrase ancient of days were use to describe only TWO people, God the father and God the son, in micah 5:2 it was use to describe the messiah, but in daniel
chapter 7. In verse 13 we read, "I saw in the
night visions, and behold, with the clouds of
heaven there came one like a SON OF MAN, and HE came to the ANCIENT OF DAYS and was
presented before him."

Here the Ancient of
Days is God the Father and the son of man is a
Messianic reference to Jesus. The ancient of days is a clear reference to a Deity because His origin is unknown, this is what the psalmist wrote about this tile:

Psalm 90:2
2 BEFORE the mountains were brought forth,
or ever you had formed the earth and the
world, from everlasting to everlasting you are God.

Now compare psalm 90:2 with isaiah 9:6 which say jesus is the EVERLASTING father. The father here imply , the father of ALL creation, because everything come through Him (His command) .

All this is strange to muhammed, muhammed dos not understand the nature of God. the quran use plurality to address the nature of God but NO attempt were made to explain it, some muslims scholar say the we is referring to allah and his angels.

Surah 21:91
And she who guarded her virginity, so WE BREATHED into her of OUR SPIRIT (roohina)
and appointed her and her son to be a sign
unto all beings.

How many people breath on mary ? Allah and his angels ? our spirit ? So angels can share Glory with God ? All this, muhammed could not explain it.

lol...first on the WE used in the koran, please kindly get your dictionary and check for we..there is what is called the ROYAL WE used to address a single person or a person importance. So when the koran addressed Allah with the royal We it is not in the sense of plenty but in the sense of royalty...


Second you claimed the word ancient of days was used to describe TWO PEOPLE(different personal),,make it glaring that there existed to Gods,the superior and the inferior..now kindly explain how this conforms with monotheism and please where is the place of God the holy spirit,,isn't he ancient of days also

Empiree:
Simple question i asked you. Is Jesus God?. It is Yes/No answer.


If a muslim is asked that question, his/her answer will be No.



But when i asked you, you came up with bunch of confused Bible passages "he was a word, the word became flesh, the flesh redeemed itself, the flesh became man, the man is spirit, the spirit walk in man, the spirit goes back to father, the Father is God, He is also Son, and Begotten Son, and Only qualified Begotten Son, and He is God." What the heck do i need all that for?. It is Yes or no answer.

....lol... My brother what do you expect when you ask a lecturer question on a topic he has little or no UNDERSTADING of,,who only copy and paste what is in the test....give him a simple question and he starts to sail off-shore

aaronson:
Ashes isn't "nothing" but a product from "something" and its more worst because ashes can't even be recycled.

ain't you a scientist? Why do you think ash isn't recyclable.?

promisechuks:
Jesus is God's co-eternal son of God. He existed in yaweeh from the beginning.

meaning there exists to two gods "he existed IN yahweh from the beginning" and the was sent by the superior God "yahweh" to die for the superior god "yaheew" and the inferior god jesus couldn't do anything except by that which the superior god empowers him to do,and could only beg the superior god when he was in danger of betrayer and cruxifiction (let the cup pass offer me) cause he(the inferior) god has no power of his own,,,and finally he was forsaken by the superior god because the superior god decides his fate-----so concocted and misleading----where is the monotheism? Cause I can't find one

aaronson:
it happens that in physics, its allowed and even tested that something to come from nothing. That link below would school you on it.

http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20141106-why-does-anything-exist-at-all



After reading on that, you would understand Newton's first law was violated, however, Newton third law could also be violated too. Check this link below.


http://lofi.phys.org/news/2015-05-newton-law-broken.html

hmm...well going back to the topic on ground...from what you've stated above you accepted that it is allowed that something could come out of nothing

Why is it the difficult to accept that the human can be reincarnated from his decomposition...which is easier?

lexiconkabir:
yea! how is school?

alhamdulilah

aaronson:
Are you serious? Science to justify the spiritual/metaphysical.

Then, if you know that about energy, I could also tell you something could come from noting which was as a result of the big bang. Energy came from nothing and you explanation above was just another prove to disprove a God.

lol...have any problem with that? Only tryna make it simple as possible

Seriously....like an unconscious and lifeless object disobeying the grand law of inertia,,,isaac newton needs to hear this

In the beginning there was nothing and nothing begets the big bang....pardon me..don't see any tangible point you've made with your big bang theorem..

Is it an effect without a cause..our is it possible that an unconscious entity be the cause of its effect?

how as this disproved the conservative law?

aaronson:
But these set of cremated people don't even have bones any more, just ashes.

...lemme give you a piece of comedy...the conservation of energy says energy is not completely destroyed but changes from one form or state to another....if the bone can change to aches...if all the elements are brought together what makes you thing the reversible chemistry is impossible

AlexCk:
The soul(or the spirit) will be judged on judgement day, not the flesh, whether cremated, or buried in debris or whatever, na soul go dey judged.

don't get it sir...if soul's will only be judged...what's the purpose of RESURRECTION....as little as I know the soul is eternal and needs no resurrection

lexiconkabir:
bro, good to see you! where have you been?

sorry for the late response...they(nepa) just remembered to give us light

Been around just couldn't log in due to some reasons.."nepa is one "...hope you're doing fine brother

^interesting

haffaze777:

It's called evangelism by deceit,it was introduced by d greatest liar PAUL OR SAUL OF Tarsus,lieman u really took after ur mentor

my brother I wonder why someone most LIE because he wants to be correct and to be seen as a scholar--lo! The ignorant will accept this lies without even making necessary finding,,how pathetic and irrational humans can be

---i have learned that only the coward lies to make a point-----

truthman2012:
allahh cannot guide aright. As an arabian idol, he has told you is a deceiver and that reflects in the OP and in the quran. What else do you want to know?

But they (the Jews) were
deceptive, and Allah was
deceptive, for Allah is the
best of deceivers
( Wamakaroo wamakara
Allahu waAllahu khayru
al-makireena )! Quran 3:54; 8:30

---lol---see this guy sha...thought you went on leave to get some sense..but seems you have even become more ignorant and my brother if you continue like this you will soon become the scale for measuring ignorance here of nairaland

As for the verse you quoted above...you've lied again...surah 3:54 states-----and the unbelievers plotted and planned,and Allah to PLANNED.and Allah is the best of planners----yussuf ali

Surah 8:30 says----remember how the unbelievers PLOTTED against thee in BOND,or slay thee or get thee out of thy home. They plot and plan and Allah too PLANS but the best of planners is Allah---yussuf ali

Could you please name the translated koran or any islamic source where this(wallaahu khayrul-maakiriin) is translated as "and Allah is the best. Of DIECIEVERS"

3-ISLaM AND LYING
The holy koran explicitly categorizes liars as disbelievers

it is those who BELIEVE NOT in the signs of Allah,that forge falsehood,IT IS THEY WHO LIE--surat an-nahl:105

It is understood from the above verse that believers do not subject themselves to the filth of fabrication

The messenger of Allah stated--adhere to truthfulness; for truthfulness guides to paradise. surely a man continues to tell the truth until he is written as truthful near Allah. And avoid falsehood: for it LEaDS TO ThE FIRE, man continues to lie until he is written as a liar near Allah--peak of the rhetoric p.418

Courageous people with good manners and conduct cannot bear falsehood nor can they accept to be polluted by such filth. LIERS SURFER FROM A MENTaL DISORBER which prevents them from speaking the truth. those who resort to lying subconsciously feel weak and humiliated, for lying is the front of the weak and the cowards

if entities were materialized,surely truthfulness would stand with courage and Lying will stand with cowardice--Imam Ali(ghurar al-hikam p.606

Also imam ali stated the clear benefits of truthfulness in a clear narrationthe truth teller achieves three things: TRUST,LOVE and RESpECt

Another narration states-- do not be mislead by their prayers and fasting,for a man become fervantly used to prayers and fasting so that if he would abandon them he would feel lonely. Rather try them when it comes to telling the truth and fulfilling trust-usul al-kafi vol1 p460

Imam ali also states--lying is the MOST ABOMINABLE trait--ghurar al-hikam p175

Lying is the ugliest and most disgusting trait among all lowly characteristics.it is important that man makes his only goal throughout the various stages of life to be truthfulness and honesty, and not to give them up in any case for any other cause or goal--dr-samuel smiles (akhlaq)

Islam based all its behavioral and correction processes on faith, and made faith the basis for man's happiness, for manner without faith are like a palace built on mud ice,they eventually wither and die,if the noblest traits are not motivated by faith,they are like dead crops near a living person

Lying is also a technique leading to all other evil traits

Imam hasan al-askari said-all spiteful traits are placed in a house and the key to this house is lying

In order to further clarify what the imam said above,let quote the prophetic narration,where a man came to him and asked for some advice. The prophet replied--ABANDON LYING AND EQUIP YoURSELF WITH tRUTHFULNESS

dubbed from YouTH AnD MoRAL--sayyed mujtaba musavi lari

2-The disadvantages of lying
There exist as many advantages for truthfulness as there are disadvantages for lying. Truthfulness is one of the most beautiful traits and lying one of the ugliest. the tongue translates man's internal feelings to the outside,therefore lying stems from ENVY OR eNMITY, it is one of the dangerous signs of DANGER.

If man's tongue becomes poisoned with lying and its filth appears on him,its effects are like the effet of the autumn wind on the leaves of trees. Lying extinguishes the light of existence and lights the fire of treachery in him. It also has an amazing EFFECT OF TERMINATING THE TIES OF UNITY AND HARMONY BETWEEN MEN AND SPREADS HYPOCRISY. As a matter of FACT a GREAT DEAL OF MISGUIDANCE SPRINGS FROM FALSE CLAIM and EMPTY WORDS. For men with evil intentions,lying is an open door to help them reach their selfish goals by concealing the facts behind their magical words and capturing innocent people with their poisonous lies

liars rarely think about the possible conclusions, claiming that "no one will ever discover their secrets" .but lo! Liars will eternally become covered with shame failure and disgrace

One of the factors which spread this resentful trait which poisons social manners is the famous saying: "constructive lying is better than the painful truth"

This saying has become a veil to cover this evil trait,and many resort to it in order to justify their resentful lies. These people ignore what REASON and JURISPRUDENCe say about this issue

indeed .freedom of speech is more importanr than the freedom of thinking because if someone makes a mistake when exercising his freedom of thought,he harms himself only. on the other hand, when exercising freedom of speech,the welfare of the society is at stake.

The tongue is a beneficial gift.it is a delicate creature which regardless of its small size performs an extremely important job when it comes to obedience and disobedience. Both disbelief and faith are manifested with the tongue, and they are the ultimate worship or disobedience

Only those who can confine their tongue to the tenets of religion are able to avoid evil. These people never set their tongues fee unless it is beneficial to their lives,faith,and eternal place of rest--abu hamid al-ghazali(kimiya-e sa'adat)

It is also important to avoid lying and contradicting the truth in front of children so that his evil trait does not enter their hearts. Children learn to act and speak from their families and surroundings. Therefore, if lying penetrates the family atmosphere,children will be affected and in turn be INFLIcTED with the same ILLNESSES of their PArents and those around them

Morris t.yash said:--the habit of thinking,speaking,and endeavoring to find the tRUTH is only practiced by those who WErE BROUGhT UP SURROUNDED BY IT aS CHILDREN

Next is islamic view on Lying

.

INTRODUCTION

Every individual in this world endeavors to achieve happiness and tranquility and struggles day and night to reach this dream in the various fields of life which appear like a war arena. He fights in this field willingly in most cases to sacrifice everything in order to witness the bird of happiness fly over his head so he may live beneath its shadow the rest of his life

But some only achieve happiness by seeking recourse to immoral actions--actions like lying,hypocrisy and oppression,,they can go to the length of lying against a whole nation just to achieve their aim

These lowly characteristics which many have made their identity all resemble an invincible dam blocking the stream of human happiness and PERFECTION,they only chain the hands of man and throw him in the merciless waves of the ocean oF RELENTLESS FILTH

Both sociologist and psychologist attest to the fact that without excellent virtues and spiritual guidance man would wander from the path of justice which leads him to the peak of greatness and perfection

To cut the story short ,Lets have a have a look at LYING its disadvantages and islams view concerning LYING

1-the position of manners in society
manners are an essential factor in societies and in the perfection of nations,manners were born as a part of humanity. No one denies the vital role that manners play in bringing peace,happiness, and felicity to man's spirit nor does anyone doubt their useful and decisive influence in strengthening the fundamentals of integrity of conduct and thinking on both social and public levels

Manners are so important that even nations that so not believe in religion respect them and feel that it is essential for them to abide by some set of ethics to be able to advance on the winding path of life


manners are one of the powers that move this world.in their best senses,manners are a manifestation of HUMaN NATURE AT ITS HIGHEST peak,for manners are a presentation of human nature at humanity. Individuals who excel in ANY FIELD of life endeavor to attract the people's attention to them with every means of honor and respect.PEOPLE TRUST THOSE INDIVIDUALS and IMITATE their perfection,because people believe that they possess all gifts of this life,and had it not been for the existence of these individual,life would not be worth living. If inherited genetic features attract the attention and appreciation of people,then manners necessitate gratification and respect of all well behaved people....--SAMUEL SMILES(british scholar)

All will agree with what is stated above yet,there exist great difference between knowing the facts and acting on them.there are many people who substitute their animalistic inclinations in the place of good conduct. They substitute excellent morals for lusts which appear in life like bubbles appear sparkling on the water's surface

Man has undoubtedly come out of the factory of life bringing with him completely contradicting instincts. Now man is constantly the subject of fierce struggle between the trails of evil and goodness: the first step to eradicate man's evil traits is to capture his lust and ANGER in this battlefield for their are the cause of his ANIMaLISTiC Power

It is incumbent on anyone who wishes to achieve perfection to avoid extravagance on either side and to rid himself of his harmful inclinations that stem from such traits and change them into useful and beautiful feelings.

human feelings are like a container that is divided into two sections. One OFFENSIVE and the other DEFeNSIVE. If man can direct his defensive feeling to become victorious over the offensive,then he will gain control of his existence and lead it as he desires not as they desire


Regarding the backwardness of moral dr.c. ROMAN writesscience has advanced in this era but manners and feelings are still in their primitive stages. If manners and feelings had advanced along with reason and mind,then we could possibly state that mankind had advanced in humanity too

The reason for the persisting miseries and imperfections in various society is a phenomenon of people's needs for moral values. Values that will spread the spirit of life in the flesh of the dying civilization and grant it the powers it righteously deserves

MrOlai:
Lier! You can't deceive people here with your Taqiya any more! This is information age!

The general belief of the shia is that sodomy with a woman is permissible even though some of them consider it Makrooh! That is all Albaqir is trying to prove in his post above! Stop deceiving people here!

These are statements on this from your scholars:

From Ayatollah Sistani:

1. Question : When a woman is in her period, can she have anal intercourse?
Answer : If wife is consenting to it, it is permissible but disliked.


2. Question : What is the ruling on anal sex? Is a Moslem allowed to have anal sex?

Answer : Based on the widely held opinion of Shiite scholars this act (anal sex) is strongly Makrooh (undesirable, what is not Haram to do, but it is better to avoid). There is no objection to the couple getting pleasure from the entire body of one another. But it should be taken into consideration that some actions are beneath human dignity.


3. Question : Is anal intercourse permissible.?
Answer : Permission is bound to wife’s agreement, but it is strongly undesirable.

From http://sistani.org/html/eng/main/index.php...=eng∂=4

According to Ayatollah Khomeini from his book Tahreer ul Waseela, Fatwa no.11, here Khomeni declares that men can have pleasure with women in the anus (BackSide) !


These are also some of the narrations in shia books forged and attributed to the Prophet (SAW) and His noble companions (R.A), legalizing sodomy with a woman:

(1) "(Narrated) Muhammad bin Yahya, from Ahmad bin Muhammad, from Muhammad bin Yahya, from Talha bin Zaid, from Abu Abdullah [as] said: The Messnenger of Allah [peace be upon him] said:
Whoever volunterily let others sexually molest him, Allah will invest him with women's lust."
al-Kafi (fil Furoo'): al-Kulainy, Book of Nikaah, Chapter: Who Let Others Sexually Molest Him, vol.5, p.549, narration 1.

Comment: May Allah curse the liars who lie on the Apostle of Allah [peace be upon him].

(2) "(Narrated) Muhammad bin Yahya , from Ahmad bin Muhammad, from Ali bin al-Hakam said: I heard Safwaan bin Yahya saying:
I said to (Imam) al-Rida [as]: a man among your followers requested me to ask you about a matter, which he feared and embarassed to ask you (directly). He [as] said: What is it? I said: For the man to use the woman's anus. He said: He may. (!!!!!)I said: Do you personally do that? He said: We do not do that."
al-Kafi (fil Furoo'): al-Kulainy, Book of Nikaah, Chapter: Women's anuses, vol.5, p.540, narration 2.

Comments: Typical Hypocrisy condemned by Allah [swt] when He said:61:03-04 ...Why say ye that which ye do not? Griviously hateful is it in the sight of Allah that ye say that which ye do not. And is typical to the Devil Iblis' behavior 59:16 Like Satan when he says to man "disbelieve": but when (man) disbelieves, Satan says: I am free of thee: I do fear Allah, the Lord of the Worlds. Nevertheless, the Shi'ites are people who love to dive in swamps and isles of human waste.

(3) "(Narrated) al-Hussain bin Ali bin Yaqteen said: I asked Abul-Hassan [as] about the permessibility for the man to have anal sex with women, he [as] said: It was made halal (permissible) in the Book of Allah, when (Prophet) Lot said: 11:78 Here are my daughters, they are purer for you and he knew it was not the vagina they were after."Tafseer al-Ayyashi, vol.1, p.157; Bihaar al-Anwaar vol.21, p.98; Tafseer al-Burhaan vol.2, p.230

(4) "Narrated Abdullah bin Abi Ya'foor: I asked Abu Abdullah [as] about approaching women thru their anus, he said: No Problem. (!!!!!) He then recited: 2:223 Your women are as tilth unto you, so approach your tilth when (or how) ye will ."
Tafseer al-Ayyashi, vol.1, p.110;Bihaar al-Anwaar Baqir al-Majlisi, vol.23, p.98; al-Burhaan fee Tafseer al-Qur'an: Hashim al-Bahraani, vol.1, p.219; Wasaa'il al-Shi'a: al-Hur al-Amily, vol.3, chpater 73: An-Nikaah wa Aadabuh

(5) Narrated Muhammad bin Yahya, from Ahmad bin Muhammad, from al-Barqiy reporting (Imam) Abu Abdullah [as] sa saying:
"If the man used the woman's anus, but did not ejaculate, there is no Ghusl on either one. But if he ejaculated, he must take a ghusl, not her."
al-Kafi (fil Furoo'): al-Kulainy, Book of Tahra, Chapter: What Mandates Ghusl on the Man and Woman, vol.3, p.47, narration 8

http://2b-or-not-2b-shia.webnode.com/


You people are not ashamed of yourselves at all!

They(shia) hide all these from people using their Taqiya! You people cannot give Islam bad name!

impression matters a lot bro---youve countless number of time proved your self to be nothing but a LIER I can't be moved by anything you post here on nairaland I'm not even compelled to read it

The rate at wich you lie has a lot to say about you as a person and your madhab-

There is a saying that goes--the interesting thing about a lier is he renders; his truths unbelievable

Another mischief@mrolai--below is albaqir's statement

* CLAIM 12:
That Shia permit sodomy [anal sex].
* REPLY: Quran says: "Your wives are as a tilth unto
you, so approach your tilth how you will..."[Q.2:223].
On the Tafsir of this noble verse, both Sunni and
Shia jurists derived rules which include ruling of
sodomy.
Tafsir Ibn Kathir [vol. 1, p. 262 Ayat Harth], Tafsir
Imam Tabari [vol.2, p.402], Tafsir Imam Qurtubi
[vol.3, p.88], Tafsir Durr al-Manthur of Imam Suyuti
[vol.1, p.638] to mention few (all Sunni Tafasir),
reported that this verse was revealed to the prophet
(s) in respect to permissibility of performing sex in
the anus of a woman.
In sahih Bukhari :
Narrated Nafi': ...he (Ibn Umar) recited surat
baqarah from his memory and then stopped at a
certain verse and said, 'Do you know in what
connection this verse was revealed?' I replied, 'No.'
He said, 'It was revealed in such-and-such
connection.' Ibn Umar then resumed his recitation.
Nafi added regarding the verse: - "So go to your tilth
when or how you will" Ibn Umar said, "It means one
should approach his wife in..."
Ref: {sahih Bukhari, vol.6, book 60, No.50}
"in" what? Imam Bukhari did Tahrif (distortion) in
this report. However Imam Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani fill
in the gap in his prestigious commentary of Sahih
Bukhari. He add the following:
"Approach his wife in HER ANUS"
Ref: {Fath al-Barr fi sharh sahih al-Bukhari, vol.8,
p.190}.
While all the FOUR Sunni madhhab [Maliki, Shafii
etc] believed sodomy is HALAL, Shia jurists differ.
While majority say it is HARAM, few say it is not. In
Sharh al-luma [vol. 5, p.101] of Allamah al-Amili, we
reads:
"Sodomy is karaha Mugalaza (very close to haram),
but not haram..." This makes Shia jurists ruled it to
be Makruh.


The bolded is albaqir's statement of shias view concerning anal sex not the part you bolded in yours

1-he clearly states that MOST of the shia jurist ruled it a HARAM and very few say it isn't HARAM

2--He said some shia jurist ruled it as makruh(offensive,detestable,strongly disliked)

Mrolai---It's so disgusting,repugnant and fetid how you LIE to proof a point----so bad a quality for a muslim

The pitiful part is readers here with rancorous feelings about shias will believe you without appropriately reading what albaqir stated--so long its the shia you are talking about they fall in the inferno of your grievous LIES and easily forget the verse of the koran which say
s

--- O ye who believe! If a wicked person comes to you with any news, ascertain the truth, lest ye harm people unwittingly, and afterwards become full of repentance for what
ye have done--surah49:6

MrOlai:





Birds of the same feather!
Your Taqiya act of deceit would not work! Both of you are as mischievous as devil himself! The rubbish you typed you said they are from sahih hadiths and Qur'an, is that what is said in the ahadith? Is that what Allah(SWT) said in the Qur'an? I guess you got your own interpretations from shaytan, your master to tarnish the images and personalities of the righteous companions and the wives of the Prophet(SAW).

You people rain CURSES on Abubakr, Umar and Uthman(R.A. Ajmain) during your ziyaratul ashura! Yet, you come here to say otherwise to deceive people!

You misinterpret Qur'an and ahadith for your personal interest! How do you explain the condoms said to be found littered everywhere in the camps by your members trekking during your usual trekking exercise?

You can't deceive people any longer! This is information age! The earlier you repent unto Allah(SWT), the better for you!

typical response--now pointless and resulting to fracas---no one is here to hassle with you bro---just read and comprehend cause it is glaring you lack the ability to comprehend--from all you've stated here so far

lol@mrolai ---sincerely speaking you've misunderstood,misquoted and misinterpreted the op--

in the first part--he(the op) refers to people like muawiyah- masterminded the killing of Ali and also the killing of hassan---and yazid-killer of hussien--and all other subsequent sunni imams who killed all the progeny of the prophet(s)

The sunnis are also aware of these fact that's why they never referred to them as RIGHTLY GUIDED CALIPH

The second part is but a NARRATION not that the OP formulated it and concocted a lie against aisha just to reduce her person


The 3rd part like the 2nd is gotten from sunni sahih hadiths--please do you have a problem with the op quoting sunni sahih hadiths?

and the last part is gotten from the HOLY koran-to show that even some of the sahabahs during the prophet(s) era were hypocrites---do you have a problem with quoting the koran

You're the one lieing here with due respect sir---cause the op never insulted the sahabahs by virtue of personal statement--he only quoted the koran and sunni sahih hadiths

another reason why you're mischievous is you only cherry picked parts of the op's statement to make it seem as if he made the statements without proves from sunni sahih hadiths and the holy koran--please to make us believe your statement quote the koran and the hadiths together with your claims

AlBaqir:
Your example is like a non-Muslim who based his submissions about Islam (as a religion) on the acts of some Muslims.
Your initial assessment about Mut'ah was allegations on "set of condom" that littered the "whole street of Zaria" when Zakyzaky's movement walked their Ar'baeen. What is Mut'ah itself; argument for and against, you don't know and seem not care untill your eyes were opened to the reality that ALL Sahabah used to performed it AFTER THE DEATH OF THE PROPHET until Umar banned it in the case of Amr ibn Hurayth, a Sahabi.

Here you are trying to add more by asking about Zakyzaky's Husseiniyah. I'm sorry I learnt through the hardest way. I don't discuss what I don't 100% sure of. Learn from Zina's jurisprudence. FOUR JUST EYE WITNESSES are required before judgment can be passed. You don't base your evidence on "am sure that was what happened". Or "The person who told is trustworthy" etc.

Shi'ism as an ideology is different from Shia as follower of that ideological beliefs just like Islam could be different from muslim. Albaqir ONLY discuss Shi'ism and not credibility of its followers

Salam

gbam!!!!!

In continuation@ sino

Imam ali asked abu bakr---what are the qualities of a leader?

He(abu bakr) answered---a desire for the peoples welfare,faithfullness,justice and equity in his conducts,a knowledge of the koran,the sunnah and the principles of judgment---et cetera et cetera

Ali thereupon remarked "further qualities are primacy in embracing islam and being related to the messenger of GOd" abu bakr responded in affirmation----ali then asked--abu bakr "tell me by God,do you see these qualities in yourself or in ME? He(abu bakr) answered "all that I have mentioned is to be found in you-tarikh al-tabari vol1p5

Umar also recounted to ibn abbas----i swear by God that if your friend(ali) assumes the caliphate,he will cause the people to act in accordance with the book of God and the sunnah of the messenger and will lead them aright--ibn abi'l-hadid sharh vol3p107

---indeed Ali is the chosen one--of whom the prophet(s) said----for whomsoever I was his master Ali is now his master

O God love who-so-ever Loves Ali and be enemy to who-so-ever is Ali's enemy-musnad Ahmad b. Hanbal vol1p118-9 ,al hakim, al-mustadrak vol3p109,ibn kathir al-bidayah5p209-13

--O God aid who-so-ever aids him and humble his enemies--ibn kathir vol5p212 ,,ahmad hanbal vol1p119

--O GOd make him the pivot of truth--ibn kathir vol5p298,al hakim vol3p109 ,al tafsir al kabir vol12p50,al tirmidhi vol2p297

^ you seek a reply as to these alleged or imposed statements of Ali qualifying umar and other as worthy of climbing the office of the prophet

---well this is illogical and fallacious,--attributed to ali to make it seem as thou the were the chosen once----

Let see what umar said about himself

[b]toward the end of his life umar himself came to regonise the negative effects of his policy and he said: -if I had remained alive this year,I WILL ESTABLISH EQUALITY IN ISLAMIC SOCIETY AND ABOLISH DISCRIMINATION-i will act in the way of the prophet, and abu bakr---taha husayn,al-fitnat al-kubra vol1p108----why was umar regretful during the last stage of his life---see reason below

---he introduced class difference(increased racial tension between the parsians and the arabs)--al-yakubi,al tarikh vol2p107

---he established a discriminatory system of distributing public monies,awarding more to the qurayshite migrants than to the non-qurayshite migrants,more to migrants than helpers,more to arabs than non-arabs and more to master than clients---ibn abi'l-hadid sharh vol8p11; ibn sa'd, al-tabaqat vol3p296-7

He also introduced bidha to the pure islam of the prophet--some of which I have stated in the second part of the article

---NOW HOW COULD AlI term him as a rightly guided caliph and fit to rule

Below is the more logical and true statement of Ali

O migrants,do not remove from the family of the messenger of God,the government that he himself founded,and do not transfer it to YOUR OWN HOUSEHOLDS,I swear by God that we,the people of the house are FITTER For this task than anyone else.there are amongst us persons who have COMPLETE coMPREHENSION of the concept of the koran,who are fully aware of the roots and branches of religion and acquainted with the SUNNAH of the messenger of GOD,and who are capable of administrating the islamic society,it is they who can prevent occurrence of corruption and divide the spoils of war justly among the muslims--as long as such persons exists and they are found only in the family of the prophet---other HAVE NO LEGITIMATE CLAIM--bEWARE OF YoUR WISHES AND DESIRES LEST YOU GO ASTRAY AND FALL INTO MISGUIDANCE,TURNING AWAY FROM JUSTICE AND TRUTH---al-tabarsi,al-Ihtijaj vol1p96


More to come in sha ALLAH

carinmom:
I have said it in the other thread by lexiconkabir on unity of the muslim umma. The Shia must first cease from insulting the Sahaba before any meaningful unity is achieved, they are only good at taqiyya. They don't believe in many verses of the holy Quran like Quran 48 verse 18 and the first 11 verses of Suratun Nur among others. Had they believed in such verses they wouldn't have been spewing trash about the Sahabas (RA).

O the shias believe and follow every verse of the koran and do not cherry pick as you have accused--but I still don't see how this thrend as insulted umar in any way

You call it spewing trash--well I §hould remind you that these things you call trash today are stated in your authentic books of hadith ----its funny how investigating the lifes of the rightly guided caliph to see if they truely are rightly guided is an insult to the
rightly guided cÀliph

Now how do you term the actions of the caliph against the prophet? An insult to the prophet of Allah and ultimately an insult to God almighty? N0?

--you companion is neither astray nor being misled--quran53:2 yet the called him delirious

nor does he say(aught) of his own desire-quran53;3 yet they disobeyed him when he commanded them to go to battle

it is no less than inspiration sent down to him--meaning disobeying him is disobeying Allah

So the questions arise are this people who disobey the commands of Allah even when the prophet was fit to occupy the prophets office after his demise

Concerning mutah here are some important points I will like to share--please read patiently

1-mutah was abolished during the time of umar
let them never bring before me a man who has married a woman for a set of period,for if they do I will stone him--muslim vol8p169 the fact that he prohibited temporal marriage(mutah) proves that this type of union was common among the companion and other muslims at that time,for otherwise it would not have been necessary to abolish it--also if the messenger of Allah had abolished it,the companions will never have had recourse to it and there would have no need for umar's threat with stoning also this means that this act was common during the time of abu bakr

Umar himself admittedthere were 3 things tHAT WEre PERMISSIBLE IN ThE TiME OF THE PROPHET WHIcH I HAVE FoRBIDDEN,temporary marriage,the mutah of pilgrimage and reciting 'Hasten to the best of deeds in the call to prayer--al amini al-ghadir vol6p23

umar son abdullah was asked about the mutah,He replied it was permissible.when the man remarked that abdullah's father(umar) prohibited it,he(abdullah) replied profoundly---IF MY FAThER HAS FORBIDDEN SOMEtHiNG WHICH THE PROPHET PERMITTED,SHOULD WE ABANDON THE SUNNAH OF THE PROPHET AND FOLLOW MY FATHER?---al-tirmidhi jami' al-sahih vol4p38

Narrations also states that the second caliph prohibited the act because it was abused---this begs the question,--do we abolish a thing because it is abuse by just people---is prohibition the solution for abusing a law?

Also seening that the mutah wasn't abolished by the prophet and the first caliph--i want to ask do we accuse them of permitting Zina?

With salaam

Disobedience to the prophet and his teachings

let those who oppose the commands of the prophet fear DISASTER AND A PAINFUL torment--24:63

Investigating the life of the prophet and his companions we say that there exists some of his companions who,whenever his commands ran contrary to their wisges and inclinations,pressed him to change his mind,or start complaining when they despaired of reaching their goals--and unfortunately umar the rightly guided caliph is in this category

INVESTIGATE WITH ME

refusing to go to battle as ordered by the prophet

during the last days of his blessed life,the prophet prepared an army to do battle with the byzantines and he appointed usamah b.zayd as the commander.this appointment of a young man,despite the availability of older men,proved displeasing to some of the companions,and led to an ARGUMENT and those who were strongly opposed to usamah's appointment ASKED the prophet to dismiss him,but he paid no attention to their request and COMMANDED abu bakr,uthman, and umar to join the ranks of the muslim army BUT THEY NOT oNLY DISREGARDED MILITARY DISCIPLINE BUT ALSO DISOBEYED THE CATEGoRICAL COMMAND OF THE PROPHET. splitting of from the army and returning to medinah--ibn hisham,al sirah vol4p338,al-yakubi,al-tarikh vol2p92; ibn al-athir,al kamil,vol2p120-121

---REFusing the request Holy prophet

The prophet in his death bed said[b]bring me a pen and a paper so that I can write for you a document to prevent you from ever going astray---ahmed b. Hanbal,al-musnad vol1p346; mulsim sahih-vol 5p76;tarikh al-tabari vol2p436

Umars reaction
umar on hearing this said:the prophet of Allah has BECOME DELIRIOUS -note:other book of hadith in other to soften the offensiveness of his words,maintain that he said---SICKNES has overcome the prophet;you have the book of Allah at your disposal,which is enough for you--sahih muslim-vol3p1259; al-bukhari vol4p5,,musnad ahmad b. Hanbal. Hdt no2992

---the first part shows a clear disrespect of the prophet and the Allah and also a disregard of the verse against running away from jihad

----the second part make it seem as if the prophet of Allah was unaware of the importance of the Book of Allah and umar is better aware than he is----

---the prophet says nothing out of fancy,and whatever he utters is the fruit of revelation from his LORD--k53:3-4

I leave you to judge on how knowledgeable umar truely is or how fit he is to rule the muslim ummah

none has free choice when confronted with the Command of God and His messenger. whosoever disobeys the commands of God and His messenger falls PREY TO OBVIOUS MISQUIDANCE-k33:34

AlBaqir:
Ha ha..ha! Don't you know that ANY Sunni Sahih hadith that expose inequality or hypocrisy of a Sahabi becomes an "insult and curses" in the world of Salafiyah-Wahabiyah (like kennyosein, MrOlai, Sino et al) the moment you quote or post such hadith?! Interestingly, Mr Sino consciously use foul words for Sahabah yet it is not term abusive. Words like "RECKLESS ATTITUDES", "DELUSIONAL" etc.

# I think Imam al-Ghazali's status was relegated because of his remarks on Umar ibn al-Khattab in particular.

# Even if a Sahabi or a group of Sahabah accused the noble Prophet of "MENTALLY DERAILED" and "POSSESSED BY SICKNESS", it is okay in Salafiyah-Wahabiyah manhaj. Don't just mess with any Sahabah be it hypocrite or apostate, they are all righteous! What a crazy world.

walahi its amazing,you simply become an enemy for saying the truth---well that's how it as been for years immemorial---people tend to be sentimental about their beliefs than be intellectual about
it

That shouldn't prevent one from saying the truth anyways

---maybe umar introduction of bid'ha(good bidha as he called it) will be my second point in sha Allah

^yeah--the question of Ali's retaliation to umar's action on lady fatimah has always been put foward to nullify this historic occurrence--well below is how Ali reacted to it
“FIST I WILL LiKe TO mENTION THE PROPHET's STATEMENT TO ALI before His(prophet(s)) death...----- Have
patience regarding what will befall on you and her (Fatima) (as) until you meet me.’” [3]
3.Al-Radi, Khasa’is al-A’imma, p. 73
Al-Majlesi, Bihar al-Anwar, vol. 22, p. 474
:

needless to mention any narration about why ali didn't retaliate,one who knows the narration will easily conclude that he choose patience out of obedient to the prophets statement as shown above--hence choosing the better of two options

Now to how Ali reacted

“Umar asked for fire and set the door on fire. He
then pushed the door and went in. Fatima (as)
confronted Umar and shouted: ‘Ya Abata! Ya
RasulAllah! (Oh father! Oh messenger of Allah!).’
Umar raised his sword while it was in its sheath
and hit Fatima (as) on her side. She cried: ‘Ya
Aabta! (Oh father).’ Umar raised his whip and hit
Fatima’s (as) arm with it.
She (as) wailed: ‘Ya RasulAllah! (Oh messenger of
Allah!) How evil are Abu-Bakr and Umar (acting)
after you have left!’ Ali (as) jumped up and grabbed Umar by the collar while pulling him by force. He then threw him on the floor and hit him on the nose and neck, wanting to kill him. However, He (as)
remembered the order of the messenger of Allah
(s) and his will and said: ‘O son of Sahhak! I swear
by the one who gave Muhammad (s) high stature
by assigning him as a Prophet, if it was not
because of what Allah had destined, and the
covenant between the Prophet (s) and me, you
would have known that you couldn’t enter my
house!’”1. Sulaim b. Qays,(companion of imam ali(a) --the book of sulaim..p.568

Wa alaykum salaam