₦airaland Forum

sinkhole:
The doubt is not whether He created or not, but the doubt is whether He created them to perfection! It is obvious that what He created are not perfect and therefore He Himself must not be perfect!

as I have stated perfection is not gotten by sitting idly but by desiring it and constant struggle

Man has the ability to ride a cae but needs to learn how to

sinkhole:
That is showing the imperfection of God, because he made a feeble man that can not even withstand a simple temptation!
Again, if God is perfect and omnipotent, who made the devil? Devil must have been a result of very wrong experiment by God!

he could,,a lot of men have been able over the course of history to fight off this temptations

The ability of man to over come temptation is the result of true kNOWLEDGE and awareness,,

sinkhole:
My teacher did not make me to study his course, I chose to study the course myself. In contrast, I did not exist by myself, God made me!
My teacher do not really know, from the begining, whether I will be good in his course or not, it will be after some time of studying me that he will realised my capabilities. In contrast, God is all knowing and perfect so much that He knows me from my birth till my death.
If my teacher has the ability to make me know and pass his course, he surely will do so and that is what we actually chraged all teachers to do, but because of their imperfections, they sometime fail! In contrast, God is perfect and omnipotent, if I am doing wrong why cant He, out if love, put me back in the right path! After all, you will agree that He directs the world in whichever direction He wants it to go, and if He is perfect then why does He choose the world to in an imperfect direction?

it is but an analogy brother,,

The teacher cannot force the student to read and study to pass his exam,,He only advices him to do so.that's the purpose of guidance and counselling

God gave man free will and then sent to him prophets who are the doctors of the soul to help cure his soul and lead him toward perfection

Not compelling Him to Do Good.

sinkhole:
He was created to be perfect in the garden of Eden, everything was there, no work no stress! And that is the aim of all christians and even muslims, to go back to the garden of Eden where everything is perfect and no more struggle and strive!

so perfect in the garden and was tempted by the devil?

Secondly it is stated the heaven and earth were created before the creation of man...why was earth created knowing that God does nothing without purpose?

sinkhole:
I have been told many times that God knows me before I was born, and he knows how I will die, because He is an all knowing God! Then where exactly is that my "free will".
If I want to make a computer which will be building cars and I am designing this particular one and all calculations show that if is built, it will be making cars that will be killing people! Do you think I will go ahead and complete that computer without making necessary corrections?

here is the point your lecturer knows that you will fail an exam due to your laziness and it turns out that you fail the exam..this doesn't mean that you failed the exam because the teacher KNEW that you will fail it but you only failed it as a result of your laziness

--but the teacher knowing that you will fail the exam shouldn't didn't prevent you from taking the exam,,cause it will mean denying you of your "right" and denying you the opportunity to proof your self

sinkhole:
The purpose of God's intervention in the chaotic world is to bring order and harmony, and if God is all knowing and perfect why then did He choose to give man "free will" according to you, that will bring imperfection in His work. He, being a perfect, all knowing Being, should have known that what he was to give us is not good for us. Afterall, Jesus said, if your child asked for a bread, will you give him/her a stone instead? Its like God, knowingly, gave us knife to cut our heads with! That is not love.

humans were not created to attain perfection by sitting down idly..he is expected to strive for and desire perfection..

--for those who strive in our path we will indeed guide them in our path--

Note-he is also given the conscience which speaks constantly to his heart when he does bad.only persistence in this act make bad deeds ok for him

That free will is abused doesn't make it bad for man--that education is abused doesn't make education bad for man

sinkhole:
Please discourse!

ok..the things you refer to as evil in this world are but the result that man is given FREE WILL,,not that He was CREATED and compulted to do evil in any way

The chaos in the world are the product of man's free will,in that He is given has the choice to either sail the path of good and success or drown in the path of evil and decadence

And again man has been given the ability to discern with the inner sight that which is good from bad and to him has been sent countless prophets so that he can transverse the path of good and merriment by virtue of his own free will

Need I give you an analogy--the student has the freedom to either read and pass his exam or not to read and fail his teacher advices him to read and leaves him choose between reading and not reading -but the student although knowing that reading will make him pass the exam fails to read and fails the exam--who is to be blamed??

...even "perfection" couldn't do justice to what God is..He is beyond that..and many many times beyond

3--once wisdom has become steady,it does not remained confined to the heart but its effects become apparent in speech, works and conducts.

The words of a person in who's. Heart wisdom has become stable will also be wise: he abstains from vain and futile talk and counsels in such a philosophical and thoughtful way that his words deserves praise and extolment

For The tongue is passage from man's heart and,in other words, the exudation of a man's heart are carried out on the tongue because it is the 00zing external part of the jar which is inside him.of course this oozing out not only appears on the tongue but with the rest of man's conduct

The other effect of aversion of the world is that the defects of the world become apparent to man;that is to say,man can witness the deficiencies,lowliness and inferiority of the world in the case that he liberates himself from attachment to it,

Cause otherwise it is not expected of a lover of the world to see the defects of their beloved darling(the world),because infatuation with the world blind's man's inner eyes from seeing its defects and deafens his ears from it deficiencies,on the contrary he perceives as beautiful its vileness and supposes his discreditable. Conducts which has appeared as a result of excessive fondness with the world to be fair

--as expressed in the glorious koran

---your souls have made the matter light for you--12:18

--and satan has made their deeds fair-seeming to them--27:24

In contrast to these groups of people who only see the beautiful appearance and fair-seeming lines and spots from this venomous snake,,the other groups also perceive its deadly poison and fatal fangs

"The example of the world is like a serpent,it is soft to the touch but its inside is full of venom,an ignorant person who has fallen into deceit is attracted towards it but a wise and intelligent man keeps on his guard against it--imam ali--nahj al-balaghah

"The lovers of Allah are those who look at the inward side of the world while the other people look at its outward side,they busy themselves with the remoter benefits while the other people busy themselves with the immediate benefits.therefore they KILLEIN THEIR HEART THOSE THINGS WHICH THEY FEARED WOULD HAVE KILLED THEM AND LEAVE HERE IN THIS WORLD WHAT THEY THINK WOULD LEAVE THEM--imam ali--nahj al-balaghah

---->Lesson 15--PROVISIONS FOR THE JOURNEY--vol1
By ayatullah muhammad taqi misbah yazdi

INTRODUCTION
Here The noble prophet (s) statement to abu dharr reminds us about the defect of the world and materialism(worldliness) and in contrast give the good news of the superiority of asceticism and disinclination to the world.

It is something of miracle that the Noble prophet(s) mentions issues of edification of character in one specific field by means of different expressions and various ways,the result of which is that every one benefits from his sayings according to his own understanding and natural capacity,and select the best provisions of edification of charater which suit them

One of the ways the noble prophet(s) has selected is recommending asceticism and encouraging people to undertake it and citing the invaluable effects which result from disinclination to the world


----WISDOM AND FORESIGHT,PRODUCTS OF ASCETICISM--

"O abu dharr! A slave of Allah does not live ascetically save that Allah stabilizes wisdom in his heart and his tongue overflows with it,and makes it aware of the defects,pains and quarrels of the world and lead him to the eternal garden of bliss in a sound state"--Bihar al-anwar

In this statement,the prophet's(s) emphasis is that asceticism and disinclination makes man's heart ready to accept wisdom and after that he percieves truths,,because they are superior over the world and choose the best way after COMPARING IT WITH THE HEREAFTER..

on the other hand those who are obsessed about the world cannot conceive the realities of the world because LOVE OF THE WORLD MAKES MaN HEEDLESS AND NEGLIGENT.because he has been held captive and enslaved by the shackles of worldliness and protracted goal

Asceticism in the world means that man ought not to be inclined to the world; if he has some wealth and certain facilities at his disposal,he thinks about how to use use them for the good pleasure of Allah and is not obsessed with acquisition of possessions..

IN EXPLANATION oF THE SENTENCE,-"Allah stabilizes wisdom in his heart" it is necessary to mention a few points

1-there is a close relationship btw disinclination of the world and perception of Divine Knowledge;that is to say,it is impossible to find a person who in spite of his heart being obsessed with the world,his soul at the same time is overflowing with divine knowledge and awareness

2-Wisdom,which is a product of disinclination to the world,stabilizes man's knowledge and awareness and defends against instability of belief and wavering of the mind.
NOTE--it is possible for man to attain knowledfe and perceive the truth but still have shaky and unstable awareness because he has not attained certitude or certainty,which stabilizes and steadies knowledge in the heart

Among the basic principles of religion,in addition to the fundamental principle of belief,the STability of knowledge also has special value and it is for this reason that seasonal and periodical faith not only has no value,but also has negative consequences and has reproached in various instances in the quran

----so when they ride in the ships they call upon Allah ,being sincerely obedient to Him,but when He brings them safe to the land,lo! They associate others with Him-quran29:65

---to be CONtinued shortly, Allah's willing

true2god:
Don't mind Muslims, they don't like Christian and non-muslims countries but will spend all their savings to relocate to the US. Some Muslims even trek from Greece to Germany, Britain, France, Sweden etc. Muslims should fix their godforsaken countries and stop this illegal migrations.

lol..ignorance sha...please oh brother which of these countries(us,britain,france,Germany,sweden) is exclusively a CHRISTIAN country?
I see you don't know the difference between a SECULAR country and a CHRISTAIN country

kennyosein:
The Jews and Christians are better that Raafidahah, for when the Jews were asked who the best of all Jews were, they replied: "The Companions of Musa" and when Christians were asked who the best of all Christians were they said the Companions of Jesus. And when Raafidhah were asked who the worst among them were, they said the Companions of Prophet Mohammed ( ﷺ ).

Minhaj as-Sunnah, Shaikh ul Islam Ibn Taymiyyah1/24 may Allah have mercy on him.

salaam...this your statement is funny oh..muslims are not in any way obliged to reason in cohesion with the non-muslim

The statement is as funny as saying the jews and christians are better than muslims because the christians belief christ is the son of God and jews belief ezra is, but muslims say God has no son

What should constitute a muslim's believe is what is true and not what is accepted by the majority

Where ibn taymiyyah got it wrong is shias don't tag the entire companions of the prophet as bad people or as hypocrites--what shias say is some of the companions are hypocritical

Cause shias actually respect and make reference to a great number of the sahabahs,,few of which are salman al-farisi(salman al-muhammadi),abu dharr et al

And this statement(some of the companions are hypocrites) in itself is in unison with the Holy koran--examples of those verses include


[Quran 48:29] "Muhammad - the messenger of God -
and those with him are harsh and stern against the
disbelievers, but kind and compassionate amongst
themselves. You see them bowing and prostrating, as
they seek God's blessings and approval. Their marks
are on their faces, because of prostrating. This is the
same example as in the Torah. Their example in the
Gospel is like plants that grow taller and stronger,
and please the farmers. He thus enrages the
disbelievers. God promises THOSE AMONG THEM
who believe, and lead a righteous life, forgiveness
and a great recompense."


[Quran 9:101] Among the Aarabs around you, there
are hypocrites. Also, among the city dwellers, there
are those who are accustomed to hypocrisy. You do
not know them, but we know them. We will double
the retribution for them, then they end up committed
to a terrible retribution.

[Quran 63:1] When the hypocrites come to you they
say, "We bear witness that you are the messenger of
God."* God knows that you are His messenger, and
God bears witness that the hypocrites are liars. "

olayinkajnr:
They sound convincing and one can almost fall for them. Something I'm not willing to risk..

Ma'asalam

.my question to this statement of yours is

What constitutes the truth if not it ability to convince people,and draw them nigh to itself ?..

Probably you've studied christianity and had dialogues with christians..and I don't think you consider their arguments as convincing..why?

why do most sunni's avoid reading shite article,,cause they fell it will impair their faith....isn't it because what is with the shites is better than what is with sunni?

I really feel what comparative studies should do is strengthen your faith and trust in that which you believe in.if shias and shiism impairs your faith I think you really should give it(what you believe in) a second thought

.

olayinkajnr:
Lolz, Like I told you, I don't need to provide you proofs on what you practice. According to what you've spilled, you know many things about them, you have their books and you listen to their lectures and even if I give a proof, you still will not believe cause once a soldier, always a soldier, but many people knows the Shia, their modus operandi and they know what I said about them ain't lie. In fact, get some Shia, point out what I said about them and they won't deny but will always want to use their cunning attitude to let the topic die down. I'll create a thread to show the odd things Shite does. Just stay tuned. In that thread, I'll show everything I've just mentioned.. Until then, this discussion has run its cause.

provide your valid proofs and bother not if I believe or not

Your duty is to provide the proves for all your claims regarding shias-(they don't believe in prophet muhammad and don't pray five time daily)--so long your proves are valid and from shia sources you've performed your duty,,there is no need bothering if I believe or not,,

Your duty is to say the truth(with clear proves). Weather or not you TRUTH is accepted shouldn't bother you much

Well,, I long to see your thread regarding all you've said here..may Allah preserve us till then

olayinkajnr:
And you've judged yourself.

lol..how quick you are to speculate..I actually refer to my school here

olayinkajnr:
Lolz, u don't need to be afraid of anyone. At the bolded, you've been a real Shite Muslim ever since you were born. Don't lie that you studied them for 3 years. Yours is 3 years, I've studied them for more than 20years. You haven't come across what I stated cause you are not even close to the locality of their leader (Zakzaky). Like I said earlier, I've seen things. I'll be on my stair case, viewing them from below.

You won't accept that they practice all I've mentioned neither wil I believe you that they are good Muslims... So, at this juncture, I think it's okay. Wishing you all the best in your so called study of Shiism... Have a níce day ahead.

lol..your funny oh....just provide your PROVES,,if you're truthful...what's the big deal providing proves

You've just said you've studied them for more than 20yrs..so providing proves from their source shouldn't cost you so much

Kunlexic:
Apart from proof,all av bin hearing about dem are negative.So dat is enof for person to rely...no need of proof again though I avnt seen any of dem b4 or maybe I dnt recognise dem.

they TOLD you that they(shias) killed a caliph..but they never told you that 11 of the 12 shia caliphs were killed?

You sound like some1 who heard that prophet muhammad spread islam by the sword and didn't ask for proof..then hear's again that he copied from the koran and hears all sought of things about Him all of which has no proof

Then he says since all I have HEARD about him. Are negative I don't need any proof...how correct is this methodology?

Kunlexic:
Even according to what I was told about the shias,they assasinated a caliph so that Alli will be the nest calipha and later they killd Alli too.

lol many people were TOLD a lot of things....what an INTELLECTUAL does is demand proof and not base his judgments on what he was TOLD

olayinkajnr:
Lolz, I don't need to show you proofs on what you practice. You know better. Like I told you earlier, I'll like to meet you face on rather than exchange arguments with you on this faceless site and I'll pass meaning I have no discussion or words to exchange with a Shite...

And I'll advice you stop rejecting your faith. Stop using 'theirs' when you are a one of their own.

Many people know what Shia is and I believe you know what your practice looks like...
Its part of your modus operandi not to reveal your true identity I get. But I won't like to go further in this discussion.

Allahu Ahlam, and If you don't know what it means, I meant, Allah knows best. Have a níce day.

point of correction...many people are very ignorant of what shiism is "omly basing their judgments on what their clerics said not that they have seen proofs of these in any shia source itself

I should inform you that this is my 3rd year studying shiism( from shia sources) and I haven't come across the things you have stated,,that is why I requested you to provide valid proof from shia sources

So if you can't provide your proves I have every reason to consider you a LIER.

If you check most of my articles here on nairaland--i include the name of the text and their authors and most of them are from shia sources. And most of my comment here on islam forum are in support of shias,,one thing I will like to to know again is a respect shias more than sunnis..cause whatever they say they provide you with VALID PROVES,,

---what I want you to understand from the above is I'm not afraid of any body here on nairaland to by so doing hide my identity--so think what you wish----

olayinkajnr:
Ameen my brother. I guess lying is part of their believes too. One thing I always say to myself and to people is 'If you know or belief is true, why be shy to show it? Why afraid to express it?'

May Allah be our guide. Ameen

---chuckles---my only request is you give me a list of the text (from shia source) you find these strange practices in shia doctrines cause I haven't seen any

---like where it is stated in their books that they shouldn't pray five times daily---at least that will help me and OThERS see the bad side of the shias

and you are unable to do that..how shameful it is that you're unable to provide valid proves for your claims...who should be considered a lier now?..the one who made claims and couldn't back them up with proves or the one who asked for the proves

----say,produce your proof if you should be truthful--2:111----

Lol...not every1 here is so sentimental about shias...those who are sentimental don't need proof for whatever you say regarding them so long it is derogatory

winner01:
Look up the word eternal, thanks.


Which sounds more rational?.
An eternal Being creates everything OR
An eternal nothing creates everything?.

lol..fine question...but more alarming is that even the NOTHING isn't eternal for science proclaims that the world will come to an end..its only logical that whatever will DIE has a beginning...and also logical that whatever has a beginning is CREATED

--hence whatever concept of God we hold we perceive Him as eternal..hence not created and will not die----

SunehriLasgidi:
Almighty Allah gave us free will. Accepted. But, why doesn't he do anything when one person's free will hurts another person? If he is omnipotent and allows evil to thrive, he might be malevolent and sadistic. How do you see it?

I'm just asking to know.

just as you wouldn't expect man to pass an exam without prepare hard for it you don't expect him to also succeed and earn peace without striving for it

What we call Evil exists as a result of man FREE WILL..not because God created Him has evil(even most who do evil hide it under the banner of Good)

From my first statement..it is mans duty to fight of evil and pray for God's assistance..you caNnot just sit back idly and expect evil,the result of man's free will to go off

Cause it takes two for an oppression to take place..the oppressed who sit back and watch the oppression continue and the oppressor who persists in the hedious act
As stated in the koran---we do not change the state of a people unless they change their own condition

Also it states--for those who strive in our path we shall indeed guide them to our path

KingEbukasBlog:
The big bang theory is like starting from the middle of a fight story .

... Emeka and Obinna had blood stains on their shirts . Emeka who had a swollen eye threw a massive punch at Obinna before the police separated them .

What caused the big bang ? .... What caused the fight ?

money..since they are both igbos

Lol.nice piece

olayinkajnr:
At this point, I think I'll stop. But I know I'm saying the truth. You are in defence of them whch is somehow strange. U sound like one of them. No offence..

Have a níce day

lol..just asking for the names of the materials you found all these strange practices in shia creed..so I can get them and see for my self

CoolUsername:
Materialism and logic aren't mutually exclusive. You can tell me I'm materialistic and I'll tell you that I haven't seen any reason to think otherwise.

ok..now let see how far materialism takes you...a lot of concept you believe in haven't been seen by you..for instance d pressure within the human body that balances that outside--pascal..

Two the essence of electricity isn't know likewise the essence of gravity isn't only their effect is felt

Just as we are the effects of God's handiwork..we cannot see Him but feel His presence everywhere in the universe which is filled with precise and beuwiful calculations

olayinkajnr:
Yeah, out of my curiosity I once had a discussion with one of their Mallam.. And I have their books(pdf), but I'm not convinced as I saw so many odd things about them. But I think at this point. I'll pass and God knows best. Some of them, pray just 2 rakaats for Zuhr, then they won't pray Asr or Maghrib. They just offer it any how. And also, part of their doing is, they don't place their head on the groud during Rukkuh. They use stone to touch their head rather. And also, they don't say 'Subhana Robiyal Alla' they say something else in glorification of their Sheikh. Is that how to pray in Islam? Like you said, your friends might pray well but come to their headquarters, you will see things my brother.

lol..which of their books did you see all these..apart from placing their heads on turba..

The shias I know say "subhana robiyal Allah"

olayinkajnr:
Now you make more sense. But to add to it, Zaria is the headquarters of Shias in the federation and they all converge here in Zaria like they did last two weeks before the clash happened. Those I met too are prayerful, they pray but they don't complete their Salat.. It more like part of their doctrines.. But who am I to judge? Allahu Ahlam.

wouldn't like to push the discussion any further..but have you gone through their doctrines?

CoolUsername:
If I tell you sh!t rainbows can you prove me wrong? If you bring up an open-ended concept how can I disprove it? You're supposed to bring evidence, evidence that doesn't suspiciously resemble natural process. Like, let God regrow an amputated limb. That's very difficult to fake.

lol..I thought you are a person of logic now I see you are being more of materialistic than logical

olayinkajnr:
Lolz, you are damn funny. Seems like someone don't understand or know simple English here. I said majority... Does that mean all? The truth behind Shia is not far fetched. I live close to their already demolished headquarters. And I see things. The way you sound makes me think you are one of them even if you are not (no offence meant though). In my post, I said they are good people no doubts but their doings contradicts the deen. I'll like to meet you one on one as I can't really be satisfied in butressing my points here on a faceless site.

Thanks

yeah.I saw it,you said MAJORITY..what I say is majority are very prayerfull,.I dnt know about the zaria shias but I have met and lived with quit a number of shias..and I haven't seen any who isn't prayerful among them

The 4th shitte imam is given the title of SAJAD due to his level of dedication to worship..come to think of it, this imam is considered as INFallible...for an infallible to reach this level of worship...why won't his followers who see him as a role model at least perform the 5 obligatory prayers

I have gone through a lot of shia articles and all of them perceive salat as very important

CoolUsername:
Oh really, so you've basically created a law that only applies when you say so. That's not how science works.

what doesn't work for science isn't necessarily incorrect..metaphysics cannot be subjected to scientific methods and yet science doesn't provlaim that metaphysics is wrong

..remaining 10