₦airaland Forum

kennyosein:
Stop lies Saudi authorities executed 47 people, including the Shia cleric, over terrorism charges, according to Saudi Press Agency (SPA).

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/news/middle-east/23143-saudi-arabia-executes-47-over-terrorism-charges.

seriously when does speaking against the vivacity of a country become an act of terrorism

He and the 46 were not ARMed nor do they have the number in their side...they only SPOKE against injustice

--maybe you should start by calling--martin luther king jnr,nelson mandela,mahatma gandhi,Malcolm x, and men of this nature terrorist

Are you being sincere with your self..is nimr and the 46 others terrorist simply because they are shittes or because the saintly nation saudi arabia said they are

By the way the site you post isn't loading

YourMain:
Of course. I agree that we have free will. But God still knows every action we take before we even think of taking them.

It's a lot more sensible, in my opinion, to have us not sin at all than to commit suicide to forgive us for sins that we ourselves may not even feel bad for.

high five jare ..well said

kennyosein:
May Allaah reward the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia for fighting terrorism and giving these khaariji/raafidhi terrorists what they deserve!

I'm sure you don't know what terrorism is..also sure you didn't read the post or read it with a close mind

malvisguy212:
This is a lie. Beheading in Islam is not a new
phenomenon by any means. It is as old
as Islam. Muslims get their motivation to behead their victims from the following Qur’anic verse:

Surah 8:12: “When your Lord
revealed to the angels: I am with you,
therefore make firm those who
believe. I will cast terror into the
hearts of those who disbelieve.
Therefore STRIKES OFF THEIR HEADS and strike off every fingertip of
them.” (Shakir)

Surah 8:67: “It is not for any Prophet
to have captives until he hath made
slaughter in the land.” (Pickthall)

Saudi Arabia is the birthplace of Islam.
The Qur’an is the constitution of Saudi
Arabia. Islamic Sharia laws are
formulated from the Qur’an and Hadiths which permit beheadings of both the infidels and criminals.

lol you missed a lot of point maybe intentionally or unintentionally(sentimentally)..you only quoted quran8-12 because it affirms your claim hence you paid a deaf ear to quran8:1 to 11

Let examine verse 9 of the same surah- it states--9. (Remember) when you sought help of your
Lord and He answered you (saying): "I will help
you with a thousand of the angels each behind
the other (following one another) in succession."

Now I put it to you--who seek for help---the one who is out numbered,distressed and under attack or the one with overwhelming number,attacks and who is rest assured of winning? apply your reason before you respond

--as regards--this goes a long way to explain surah8vs67 also

Need I mention that this verse was revealed during the battle of badr..maybe you should also study the historical battle of badr and see for you self who was the oppressors

----the same surah states that--And fight with them until there is
no more fitna (disorder, pROSECUTIoN) and
religion should be only for Allah"?-8
Vs39
The verse clearly states that the muslims should fight until there is no more prosecution in the land

--i also put it to you..is fighting against prosecution a defensive or an offensive war?

analice107:
Really? Even Christ practiced Islam? But am trying to understand why, we Christians are not running around beheading those who don't believe in Christ.

Okay, We Christians believe in Trinity, So be justified in your hatred. The Jews don't, why the Islamic hatred against the Jews?

hatred not hatred bro..the jews also gave God a son--ezra

Does who. Kill or behead people for their unbelieve in islam are not following the teachings of the koran

Let there be no Compulsion in religion because truth stand clear from error-quran2vs256

Another one says-call people to the way of thy LORD with WISDOM and GOOD exhortation16:125

The koran even proclaims--do not let Hatred for a people lead you towards injustice

War is only allowed in islam in the case of defense not offense

Lebanon’s resistance movement Hezbollah has
condemned as an “assassination” Saudi Arabia’s
execution of prominent Shia cleric Sheikh Nimr al-
Nimr.
In a statement carried by its website al-Manar on
Saturday, Hezbollah condemned the execution of
Sheikh Nimr as a “heinous crime,” saying the move
was based on “false pretexts” and “empty
allegations.”

Hezbollah said the reason behind the execution of
Nimr was that the respected cleric always spoke for
the oppressed against the regime in Saudi Arabia.
The Lebanese resistance movement also condemned
the Saudi authorities’ designation of Nimr and other
anti-regime Shia activists as terrorist elements,
saying Riyadh tried to divert attention from its terror-
seeking policies by killing Nimr and others over their
alleged role in acts of terror.

Hezbollah described the late Sheikh Nimr as a
spiritual scholar who always sought dialogue and
resisted injustice. His martyrdom will pave the way
for the final abolishment of the Saudi kingdom, the
Lebanese resistance movement said.

It said Nimr’s execution was a beginning in the New
Year for a string of new crimes by the Saudi regime.
Hezbollah called on rights groups across the world to
condemn the execution of Sheikh Nimr as a crime.
The Lebanese group also said it also holds the United
States responsible for the execution of Nimr as Washington has always provided direct support for
the Saudi regime and covered up Riyadh’s continued
violation of the rights of its people and the people of
other countries in the Middle East.

Saudi Arabia on Saturday executed Sheikh Nimr
along with 46 others in defiance of international calls
for the release of the prominent Shia cleric and other
jailed political activists in the kingdom.

Reactions continued to pour in over the execution,
with Nuri al-Maliki, Iraq’s former prime minister,
saying that the move will mark the end of Saudi
Arabia’s government.

“We strongly condemn these detestable sectarian
practices and affirm that the crime of executing
Sheikh Nimr will topple the Saudi regime as the
crime of executing the martyr (Mohammed Baqir) al-
Sadr did to Saddam (Hussein),” said Maliki, referring
to another prominent Shia cleric killed in 1980.

In condemnation of the execution of Sheikh Nimr,
Iran’s Foreign Ministry also said, “The execution of a
personality such as Sheikh Nimr who had no means
other than speech to pursue his political and
religious objectives only shows the depth of
imprudence and irresponsibility.”

#press tv#

lexiconkabir:
@BETRATON, You better forget that guy, he doesn't understand anything, his mind is locked to anything you or any Muslim has to say, I'm speaking from experience.

this is when a yoruba man will say "opolo ti sun"

malvisguy212:
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 3, Book 48,
Number 823:
Narrated By ‘Aisha : The Prophet
heard a man (reciting Qur’an) in the
Mosque, and he said, “May Allah
bestow His Mercy upon him. No
doubt, he made me remember such-
and such Verses of such-and-such
Surah which I dropped (from my
memory).

Muhammad forgot some verses and one
of his friends reminded him of them.
However, when there was no one to
remind him, he claimed that these
verses have been abrogated by Allah. We saw this to be true previously when two of his followers told him that they had forgotten some of the verses which he had taught them. Muhammad told them that these verses “have been abrogated, thus, forget about it.”

lol...understanding things hard for you oh..which language you be abeg lemme speak you language maybe you will understand

frank317:
.

Well, I just want to point out that this is not about weather God should be blamed for man's action or not since he already knows.... I will love to see you give plausible explanation as to how free will and ominiscience can exist.

I am yet to see u tackle it proper.

Again, if God KNOWS I will be a doctor in ten years, can i, with my freewill, become a lawyer in ten years?

being a doctor is the result of your freewill that is you chose to be one God knowing is the result of His infinite knowledge not that He is the cause of you being a doctor..cause you have various choices to pick from

Its like a father who left his son to choose his own discipline at of his(son) free will this is different..ASSUMING the father in this analogy KnOws that the son will become a doctor can one on account of this say the son became a doctor as a result of the father's knowledge only an analogy

malvisguy212:
many hadith give the same story, the whole hadith cannot be wrong.

seems you don't get the point..the koran is the criterion for other books authenticity not the other way round

Only the koran can be used to disprove the koran....it like saying christ won't come back because a catholic priest says so..definitely you will say the priest is wrong because and only because His statement does not tailor with the bible

Hope you get my point now..
Hope you're not a liverpool fan--smiles---

frank317:
Pls I wish you focused on the topic and try to argue meaningfully with the examples the op gave.

Again, the op never held God responsible for anything that happen to man because he has knowledge of it. As u are talking about responsibility in your example. This is off point.

The op is saying that if God already knows I will become a doctor... How's does my choice make sense when I must be what God knows I will be. Even if I am making choice, I must make the choice that must be in line with what God knows

I guess the op quite understood my point of view cause the op never said I was derailing I guess you didn't settle down to read and understand it

analice107:
Bros, What has he said now? He just quoted the hadith. And I asked questions. Pls don't ignore these questions nah.

lol..I already answered your questions to the best of my ability

analice107:
I was going to ask this same question. Who else did Allah talked to except Muhammed?

@BETATRON. I need to understand something clearly pls. When Muslims or the Koran says, The Koran is perfect and complete without contradictions, are to take it that,

1. Because Jibril spoke to Muhammed only, and not to anyone else? So the room for contradictions were eliminated?

2. Why did the Koran or Muhammed say the Koran came directly from the mouth of Allah, when the same Koran says Jibril dictated the Koran to Muhammed and he intern dictated it to his companion?

3. Should we take it that since it was Jibril who dictated the Koran, Jibril is the same as Allah?

4. When the Koran or Muslims say the Bible is corrupt, are they saying because Yahweh spoke to so many people at different times, that corrupted the Bible?

Whose story will you rather believe? Is it the story of a man who had eye witnesses/other people confirming what he said. Or a man without a witness to corroborate his claims?

For example. The Biblical prophets, talked about the coming of Christ. Reading the old testament, we don't need to crack codes to decipher who they were talking about. When Christ came, He said, those Prophets were talking about Him.

But why do we need to crack codes to find Muhammed in the scriptures? And why are muslims seriously against the same scriptures they claim Allah gave to his Prophets?

Why did the Koran call Muhammed the first Muslim, yet referred to all the Biblical Prophets as muslims?

that the koran was sent to muhammad by Allah is true,jibril acting as the medium btw muhammad and Allah doesn't mean that jibril is ithe owner of the content of the koran

It is the case of a post man the letter is note his(the postman's own) he is just serving as a medium between the owner of the letter and the receiver of the letter--2 and 3

the koran clearly states "do they note ponder on the koran,if it is from other than Allah they would have found there-in much contradictions--so the koran does not say the koran cannot be wrong because it was sent to one man but because it was from God--like you know every attempt to proof that the koran contains contradictions as gone futile-1

Muslim don't say the bible is wrong because YAHWEH spoke to numerous prophets but because it has been infiltrated by evil intending men--maybe you should make more findings on what transpired and the council of nacea---as you know too many hands spoils the cook--4

I believe a story which is logically and intellectually true weda this truth is followed by one man or by the entire world--truth has nothing to do with number does it?

All the prophets it our churches today where were they mentioned in the bible?

Like Í said in number 4 because it has been infiltrated by evil intending men both the old and the new

Muhammad brought the NAMe islam(as the seal of the prophet) but the practice as been since the time of adam..as you know all the prophets in the bible including christ preached monotheism and not trinity
And this is eternal life that they know You the ONE TRUE GOD and jesus whom you SENT-jesus

The lORD thy GOD is ONE--moses

true2god:
Thats the problem with muslims, any hadith that runs contrary to common sense or that reveals mohammed as fake and\or pedofile is weak or fabricated (according to muslims), yet this suppposedly fabricated hadith will remain in islamic libraries worldwide. Anytime muslims are cornered they condemn the hadith and some will automatically, though temporarily, become a 'quran-only' muslims.

Lying is normative islam as long as it promotes allahh\mohammed\islam\quran.

when your ready to have a healthy conversation you can mention me

I cannot join you in braying like an ass..please learn courtesy from your pastor(that is if the the church still teach courtesy) or maybe go back to your bible and learn how those who are christ like put forward their argument

the prophet(s) teaching abu dharr how important meditation is states

"O abu dharr! Two rak'ats of conscious and heedful prayer accompanied by meditation is better than one night of worship with a heedless heart"

Taking into accout the importance and prominent role of meditation and reflection,the Noble prophet(s) states that two rak'ats of prayer performed in a CONSIOUS and HEEDFUL manner---not that they ought to be necessarily long---but along with thought have more reward and effect in the perfection of man than waking up at night and spending it all in prayer until morning WITHOUT presence of heart

Of course,if man recites his prayers very fast and with a lot of haste,he cannot perceive his duties and pray in the correct way;

as can be inferred from hadiths,prayer with haste which is devoid of reflection,thought and heed is like a crow with its beak in the ground;that is to say,this prayer is not profitable and because it occurs without attention and is performed in haste that man does not find the opportunity to perceive the presence of Allah,and so reflect and meditate upon the context and purports of prayer. What is being asserted is that two rakats of prayer with consciousness and attention are better than long repeated prayers without heed and presence of heart

"so woe to those praying ones,"
"who are careless of iheir prayers,"-surat maun:4-5

As has been frequently been said,man's spiritual journeying consists of both academic and spiritual journeying;man's spiritual ascendancy depends on his intellect and the increase of his perception. In other words, man sets foot on the course of ascendancy towards Allah accompanied by knowledge. His gaining proximity to Allah imply changing places;which is dependent on the increase of His intelligence and attentiveness,

The rise and growth of his conception of the majesty of Allah and His Attributes;the more his awareness increases the more He become Close to Allah in contrast man lags behind in perfection,growth and awareness of Allah to the extent of his ignorance

Prayer is a means of attaining perfection and is meant to make man feel more nearness to Allah,but if this prayer is devoid of attention and perception of the status of Allah,the person reciting the prayers is like a person busy performing exercise and stretches,because he has not derived any benefit from the context and purport of prayer

Note--that prayer devoid of attention and presence of heart is BETTER than sleeping and not praying,

But it is more profiting and proper that prayer is accompanied with presence of heart; in which case his movement become faster and he arrives at his destination faster,which is proximity(qurb) to Allah

malvisguy212:
muslims condemned the hadith when is not in their favour.

lol..its not like that bro..the hadith is contradicting the Koaran

The hadith the result of human narration the koran is DEVINE

Which do we take the DEVINE statement or the human statement.?

malvisguy212:
and this..... “We used to recite a surah which
resembled in length and severity to
(Surah) Bara’at. I have, however,
forgotten it with the exception of this
which I remember out of it: ‘If there
were two valleys full of riches, for the
son of Adam, he would long for a
third valley and nothing would fill the
stomach of the son of Adam but
dust'”. Sahih Muslim, Vol. 2, p.501)

Here we see the evidence for a whole
chapter which is missing from the Quran.
These evidences from Islamic tradition
prove the fact that Quran is incomplete
and imperfect.

like I said the koran is the furqan the criterion other books are not used to check the koran's authenticity but the koran to check other book's authenticity

And the koran stated in the verses that I have shown you that it is PERFECT and COMPLETE

So we cannot take a human narration over that of the Divine

CoolUsername:
This is the problem, an omniscient deity would not predict the future from any previous knowledge, like the teacher did. Instead, the deity would just know.

If an omniscient deity knows that the child would fail an exam, that means the deity knows that the child will be slothful and have a bad attitude towards school.

That means that no matter what, the child would be lazy and would eventually fail the exam.

yeah..like I said earlier the important point is knowledge not the means

Like the teachers fore knowledge doesn't make Him the cause of the student slothful attitude since the students himself knows that his slothful behavior will have cynical and naysaying ramifications on his result and has the choice to sit up and prepare hard for his exam but choose after numerous admonishing to trudge the path of decadence

So also God's fore knowledge of the creature does not mean He actually destined him to trudge that path

malvisguy212:
you mean muhammed wanted to write down something he has already wrote ? Something that will not lead the muslims astray? You are talking trash. You are talking as if you know more than muhammed.

yes..do you have a problem with laying emphasis on a thing?

Like a teacher after delivering a lecture ask the student to pay attention on a particular topic..what's wrong with that bro?

CoolUsername:
According to you, the Quran says that Allah has knowledge over everything. So I guess it's safe to say that Allah also knows the future.

So when a man is born, then Allah already knows everything that the man will do.

So, if Allah knows the man will become a criminal, then that means that whatever that tries to do, he will always be a criminal because Allah cannot be wrong.

Should the man be punished for something he has no CONTROL over?

that is where FREEWIlL comes in..free will shows that man know left from right and is not compulted to choose any one..which ever path he follows is the result of his own freewill and God's knowledge doesn't mean compultion

Like the teacher knowledge that a child will fail an exam doesn't mean that the child failed as a result of the teachers knowledge but as a result of the student's own slothful and drowsy attitude

malvisguy212:
trash!!! What is it that muhammed waned to write that will not lead his followers astray ? Why will he died with such an important revelation ?

like I said earlier koran proclaims that muhammad(s) doesn't teach anything outside the tenets of the koran

What he wanted to reveal is just a clarification of some things in the koran or the person must fitting to succeed him after his death-still within the tenets of the koran

malvisguy212:
do you know the meaning of perfected ? It mean to perfect what is imperfect to clean what is unclean , if the quran which you claims is from God (came down from heaven) does it mean in heaven the quran was not perfected ?

funny you..by perfected it means THERE IS NOTHING MISSING IN IT...perfect is not only used in that context bro..that is why the ayah further state COMPLETED my favours...meaning that there is no verse that is missing in it...cause if a verse is missing it will mean the koran is imperfect and incomplete

Simply put ABSOLUTE--or not reduced or diminished

malvisguy212:
by the time quran 16:89 was revealed, more verses were yet to be revealed, does it mean since quran 16:89 say the book was complete, no need to revealed others passages ? This hadith was clearly understood , muhammed wanted to write a documents that will guide the muslims not to go astray, he died with this revelation.

and the last Ayah of the Holy Quran was
this:
This day have I PERFECTED your religion for you,
completed my favor upon you, and have chosen
for you Islam as your religion-quran5:3

The last ayah of the koran clearly shows that the religion was perfected--can a thing be PERFECT without being COMPLETE?

And the koran clearly proclaims that prophet muhammad(pbuh) doesn't proclaim anything outside the tenets of the koran---so whatever document he wants to give will be within the teachings of the KORAn

...op nice one..but what you fail to understand is the koran proclaims that it is complete

--"And We have revealed the Book to you which
has clear explanation of EVERYTHING, and a
guidance, mercy and good news for those who
submit." (Qur'an 16:89)

---and another thing you fail to grab is we muslims see the koran as the FURQAN-that is the EVIDENCE OR CRITERION---hence the koran is used for verifying the autenticity of other book and NOTE THE OTHER WAY ROUND..

So when a thing goes contrary to the koran that thing is wrong not the KORAN

So please if you want to disprove the KORAN use the koran not another book narrated by a fellow human

malvisguy212:
who was the woman accusers ?

Luke 11:46
"Woe to you as well, experts in the law!"
He replied. "You weigh men down with
heavy burdens, but you yourselves will
not lift a finger to lighten their load.

lol..with you own sense of reasoning now..which do you prefer...adultery and all other crimes going unpunished hence resulting to "illegal" children,spreading of std's,and increasing the rate of abortion--as we see in our world today---and also inciting the youth to indulge in this act since no one is punishing does who indulge in them.

That is allowing this criminals to enjoy the so called GRACE and allow such evil to flourish

Or punishing them and using them as scape goats to the community and hence reducing "illegal" children,reducing the rate of abortion,and reducing the spread of std's

Sarassin:
OK, so you believe it is a more reasonable assertion that God is perverse through the action of creation destined to fail ?

No I am not eckist, I don't know what that is.

that's the point, you failed to differentiate between FREEWILL and PREDESTIONATION as regards to omniscient

Really not feeling to well now..maybe tomorrow or another time

Sarassin:
If you read the OP, it becomes clear that foreknowledge also means knowledge of all possible outcomes. The denial of foreknowledge is the only reasonable assertion in the Christian paradigm, otherwise we would say that God is perverse, having foreknowledge that his creation would fall into sin and yet persisted with his creation.

Without God’s denial of foreknowledge humanity becomes redundant, there can be no sin or indeed righteousness, progress or advancement. The denial of certain foreknowledge is in fact the greatest act of love the Divine can bestow on its creation.

Any God is limited by adoration. You may make of that what you will.

I don't believe in judgement.

lol..so you mean that GOD who is infinite knowledge doesn't know the out come of what he created?

I don't think the assertion is at all reasonable...why create something you don't know it outcome?

Permit me to ask..are you an eckist?

Sarassin:
I appreciate your rebuttal. Yes, it is a difficult premise but the proofs of my statement is in the absolute fact that humankind has freewill, therefore it must follow that the Divine denies itself certain foreknowledge,(I have not said infinite knowledge) else freewill could not obtain, this does not detract from omniscience, the capacity to know is always there.

You ask if God can deny itself eternal life and die? any God is limited by adoration.

Agreed that various prophets have emerged through the ages in various disciplines to attempt to guide mankind towards their own vision of the will of God, again, it is a subjective process and not absolute otherwise there would not be so many different versions of religious practices. In any event this intervention does not amount to a daily input in the lives of mankind, indeed, a significant proportion of humanity will have lived its collective lives in absolute ignorance or negation of God.

I don’t understand what you mean when you say “retribution for every act” in the great scheme of things this is a totally abstract concept.

granting fREEWILL does not mean denial of fore knowledge does it? Fore knowledge only mean I know the path you will trudge FREEWILL means that I didn't compel you to trudge that path

Well how does FREEWILL mean the absence of fore knowledge from you opinion

Is your answer to my question a YES and hence an affirmation that God is limited?

By retribution a mean judgment

Please do try to be as brief as possible.thanks

Sarassin:
Not necessarily. In my view, Omniscience would be a state of being, therefore a deity can deny itself certain foreknowledge and remain omniscient, perhaps as an act of great love, without which freewill simply would not be available and a man’s destiny would never be subject to change.

For me, there is no overarching reason why a deity has to concern itself with the day to day intricacies of human life, it is human arrogance to think so. Life is for humans to learn from. The divine sets the destination and how we get there is entirely up to us.

this your proposal brings with it a some of refutal oh...omniscient I think is part of God essence can a deity deny itself of its essence?

Like I know future and past are the same for God and He is not restricted by time and space,if you say God denies Himself of infinite knowledge are you insinuating that God is limited by time and space and also possible God can deny Himself of eternal life and Die?

Now you said God is not concerned with the day to day atrocities of human life..maybe I don't understand this your statement very well---but if I get you clearly--i will ask you that if God is not "concerned" with the day to day activities of man life why has he sent numerous prophets for this purport and why is there retribution for every act?

It's like a father,who doesn't teach or care about how his child leads his life..if the child ends up trudging the path of decadence-- who is to be blamed the son or the father?

SirWere:
Ahhhhh.................. You have to understand Op, those days, the branches of science were still concepts, Physics has not yet branched out yet, Chemistry was not so crazy and Maths (In a dark tone) was not yet a bastradly stubborn subject.

lol...but the were pioneers(they underwent the rigors of discovery) in these fields and our own job is just to know them or maybe make one or two additions

I think their own work is more difficult ...the difference between us and they is they made maximum use of tym

You're right anyways

malvisguy212:
Romans 6
6 What shall we say then? Shall we
continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are
dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as
were baptized into Jesus Christ were
baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by
baptism into death: that like as Christ
was raised up from the dead by the glory
of the Father, even so we also should
walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in
the likeness of his death, we shall be also
in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is
crucified with him, that the body of sin
might be destroyed, that henceforth we
should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we
believe that we shall also live with him:
9 Knowing that Christ being raised from
the dead dieth no more; death hath no
more dominion over him.
10 For in that he died, he died unto sin
once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto
God.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to
be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto
God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your
mortal body, that ye should obey it in the
lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as
instruments of unrighteousness unto sin:
but yield yourselves unto God, as those
that are alive from the dead, and your
members as instruments of
righteousness unto God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over
you: for ye are not under the law, but
under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin, because we
are not under the law, but under grace?
God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield
yourselves servants to obey, his servants
ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin
unto death, or of obedience unto
righteousness?
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the
servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from
the heart that form of doctrine which was
delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye
became the servants of righteousness.
19 I speak after the manner of men
because of the infirmity of your flesh: for
as ye have yielded your members
servants to uncleanness and to iniquity
unto iniquity; even so now yield your
members servants to righteousness unto
holiness.
20 For when ye were the servants of sin,
ye were free from righteousness.
21 What fruit had ye then in those things
whereof ye are now ashamed? for the
end of those things is death.
22 But now being made free from sin,
and become servants to God, ye have
your fruit unto holiness, and the end
everlasting life.
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the
gift of God is eternal life through Jesus
Christ our Lord.

well going back to the bible how do you explain these verse

1-Proverbs 3:11-12
My son, do not reject the discipline of the
LORD Or loathe His reproof, For whom the
LORD loves He reproves, Even as a father
corrects the son in whom he delights.

2-2 Samuel 7:14
"I will be a father to him and he will be a son
to Me; when he commits iniquity, I will correct
him with the rod of men and the strokes of
the sons of men,


3- Psalm 94:12-13
Blessed is the man whom You chasten, O
LORD, And whom You teach out of Your law;
That You may grant him relief from the days
of adversity, Until a pit is dug for the wicked.

All the verses I have mentioned and many approve justice and legislative laws--please now explain these verses simply please,,,have no time for long verses

malvisguy212:
Romans 6
6 What shall we say then? Shall we
continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are
dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as
were baptized into Jesus Christ were
baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by
baptism into death: that like as Christ
was raised up from the dead by the glory
of the Father, even so we also should
walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in
the likeness of his death, we shall be also
in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is
crucified with him, that the body of sin
might be destroyed, that henceforth we
should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we
believe that we shall also live with him:
9 Knowing that Christ being raised from
the dead dieth no more; death hath no
more dominion over him.
10 For in that he died, he died unto sin
once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto
God.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to
be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto
God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your
mortal body, that ye should obey it in the
lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as
instruments of unrighteousness unto sin:
but yield yourselves unto God, as those
that are alive from the dead, and your
members as instruments of
righteousness unto God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over
you: for ye are not under the law, but
under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin, because we
are not under the law, but under grace?
God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield
yourselves servants to obey, his servants
ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin
unto death, or of obedience unto
righteousness?
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the
servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from
the heart that form of doctrine which was
delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye
became the servants of righteousness.
19 I speak after the manner of men
because of the infirmity of your flesh: for
as ye have yielded your members
servants to uncleanness and to iniquity
unto iniquity; even so now yield your
members servants to righteousness unto
holiness.
20 For when ye were the servants of sin,
ye were free from righteousness.
21 What fruit had ye then in those things
whereof ye are now ashamed? for the
end of those things is death.
22 But now being made free from sin,
and become servants to God, ye have
your fruit unto holiness, and the end
everlasting life.
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the
gift of God is eternal life through Jesus
Christ our Lord.

save your self the long story and explain simply and logically--- I'm sure you're not against logic,, that's the common ground between us

---if you cant explain it simply you don't understand it well enough-albert Einstein