₦airaland Forum

Annunaki:
Then you can't possibly be a muslim as there is absolutely no truth in islam.

well..I have a mind of my own and can discern truth from falsehood by my self,,the good thing about truth is it shines and illumines your path even when surrounded by the darkness of falsehood...so your OPINION isn't relevant..

Blackfire:
take away: is it right for me as a 20+ boy to ve a sugar mummy of nearly 50 years ?
Don't go yet can u give your 6 years old daughter to me when am nearly 60 years to f.vck..
Call me a prophet. Say peace be unto me for these sick attitude, now emulate me as u hear this.

Shkr

I see you're only tryna win an "argument" not tryna have an healthy dialogue in the context of the op if not so you wouldn't derail the thread..piece of advice for you "get the next brother" perhaps you earn the chance to swim in your ocean of pomposity

ari3l:
Are you sunni muslim, or Shia?

I only belong where truth belongs

Blackfire:
i just love the way u Islamic robots are programed, immediately u hit them with there own poison.. They revert to u don't understand Islam, u misquoted, misinterpreted, you MISSISSIPPI Islam.
Then the next move is a silent threat.. U will be disgraced, u will boomed, u will be EL-RUFAIed.. Guy all that don't work on me.

I ve debated with Muslims in the open, they went home cursing mohamed.
I ve even said when is that ACADIP guy coming to ibadan, i will document, video and post it on NL.

Islam.. Tears sorrows and blood.

titters....ok anyways...we've heard you

...interesting...maybe it isn't that "very simple" as it seems...babasuwes..lol

proudkafir:
This is the most popular verse muslim apologist quote anytime there is islamic terror. The question is this, do any of them quote the verse in full? The answer is no.

Here is quran 5:32 in its context, with all words included (emphasis mine):

On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel (not muslims) that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our apostles with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land.

Salient points:

1 - It explicitly states that this was a commandment to the Children of Israel, i.e. the Jews! This is not a commandment to all people, and it certainly should not be misused as if this is Allah's command to Muhammad's people.

2 - Even if this were a command to the Muslims, there's still an escape clause: "unless it be for murder or spreading mischief in the land." If someone is "spreading mischief", he can still be murdered. Mischief in the land can be anything un-islamic, even if that thing is rational. Quran 9:29 gave us a clue on this coveat 'mischief in the land'. If I eat pork, drink bear (though I can drink camel urine in a muslim land), gamble, criticize mohammed\allahh, renounce islam, then I have committed 'mischief in the land' and can still be killed.

Quran 5:33 says The punishment of those who wage war against allahh and His Apostle, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter.

This verse (quran 3:33) is referring to the Muslims, not the Jews anymore, as we can tell in the shift from past tense to present tense. And here, the punishment for mischief is clearly prescribed: execution, crucifixion, mutilation, or at the least, exile. This is the command given to the Muslims. Quite clearly, it does not teach what the Muslims proclaim it teaches; in fact, it teaches almost the exact opposite.

So your using quran 5:32 to exonorate islam from any violence is wrong and disingenious.

Mohammed in his own words (in the hadith) said: I HAVE BEEN MADE VICTORIOUS THROUGH TERROR.

lol..first is the statement of the koran is universal...koran5vs32 only shows how the islrealites continue to commit excesses in the land...and this doesn't mean it is not applicable to muslims it only serves to admonish us so that we don't commit the same evil

Again the verse is against killing of innocent people

--you clearly stated that the koran5vs33 prescribed punishment for mischief not for the innocent--clearly shown in this context of the koran "those who wage war against Allah and His messenger, and strive with might and main for MISCHIEF through the land

So I haven't done anything wrong in quoting koran5vs32

Blackfire:
so Allah when asked one of the angel to go and bring sand to make man, is that angel not a partner in Allah creation? Chai Allah don catch himself.

When u say aisha is the MOTHER of all believers in the world, does it mean Allah impregnated her?

When Allah sits somewhere, and he urged the mujahadins to help fight during the wars mohamed fought? Though Allah said he can do it himself, but he needed them to also help out. Are those mujahadins not a partner with Allah in war?

I can go on and on.
The problem mohamed had was he never understood the concept of Christians calling god there father.

I will rather believe in a God who i can relate to in father and son/daughter, than a god who treats me like a slave, imagine a god who ve slaves but no son/daughter?

About the no compulsion in Islam, u quoted, abeg quote the following verse and let the world see the hypocrisy of Islam.
And why is it that u enter Islam, they rejoice but when u say wait o am in wrong place i want to leave, Islam, mohamed and his almajiris will issue fatwa of death on u. Do u know that apostasy in Islam means death, they will cut of your head literally... No compulsion indeed.

*remembers gideon kaluka*

hehehehe...laughing in aramaic...1-is you've derailed the op
2-is it is so glaring that you've misquoted,misinterpreted and misunderstud islam and the koran with everything you've stated here

Lol----you can create a thread of your own and see how you will make a mockery of yourself

INJESUSNAME:
Didn't u read other parts of the quran? If the bombers are not Muslims and are criminal, then muhammed wasn't a Muslim and he was a criminal since he killed people who didn't offend him. However, you talk about quran saying don't kill innocent people as one innocent killed is like killing the whole of mankind, the people Muslims kill are not innocent. They are guilty of refusing to accept Islam, aren't they?

guilty of refusing to accept islam? Lol..I stated the verse of quran which clearly shows that there should be no compulsion in religion....islam teaches that religion is a thing of conviction and not of blind following and should not be subjected forcibly on anybody

Blackfire:
Anyway @ betatron i like the hayat u quoted , please read the following verse of there is no compulsion in Islam... And lets really see the compulsion of Islam,.
Secondly this hayat is a meccan saying of mohamed, but the one of yathrib verse of striking terror in there heart ve cancelled it.. By mohamed law of abrogation.
Let me stop here.

quran3vs151-----soon shall WE(singular we or royalty---"GOD HIMSELF"-----cast terror into the hearts of unbelievers----why?----cause thy have joined partner with Allah.......their ABoDE SHALL BE THE FIRE

---this verse only address the ultimate fate of unbelievers "a thing present in all religion" ...it is clearly shown in the end "their abode will be the fire" -----its doesn't in any way support terrorism and doesn't in any way abrogate the verse I quoted

Here is islam's judgement on one who kills A person unjustly

Whoever kills a person [unjustly]…it is as though hehas killed all mankind. And whoever saves a life, it is as though he had saved all mankind.” (Qur’an, 5:32)

Here we see that islam likens the punishment of one who kills just one person unjustly as equal to one who kill the whole of mankind

--seeing this fact it is glaring that islam is not in support of acts of terrorism....so the question remains are these group of criminals really muslims? If they are....why have they gone against this teaching of the koran?----are they trying by way of bombing and killing to call people towards islam---is this the pattern of islam....of course No...here is the pattern islam recognizes for calling people toward islam

--- Invite (all) to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious-koran16;125

and islam beautifully capped it up----let there be no compulsion in religion,truth is clear from error-koran2:256

So Islam does not recognize these terrorists as muslims...and it is our prayer that nemesis catches up with them soonest

Bwiriful

ari3l:
Now this area



Now asides religion and it's facts, what else would they ask a prophet of a deity?
Why would he become angry that a question or two was asked?

it appears you didn't read a lot of things here...if you had you wouldn't have raised this issue again....u just accepted that there are questions if asked requires that the questioneer by thoroughly checked medically and you're asking why the prophet is angry at such questions

ari3l:
Free thinking = science, existence of no God, thats what a super atheist would say, that is exactly why I said it's science.

List the areas again I would like to see where islam welcome questions.

existence in no God is the definition of science...science is but the study of nature and embracing it beauty,,atheism is synonymous to materialism...that the pledge to only belief in God if He materializes Him self...science didn't say there is no God but science doesn't bring God into the equation why would science discuss God science is based on empirical findings and God isn't subject to such laws..science states from the movement religion starts from the mover...science and religion can be infact complementary

1-Are those who have knowledge and those who have no knowledge alike? Only the men of understanding are mindful-- (Quran, 39:9)----how will you gain knowledge without asking and making research

2-My Lord! Enrich me with knowledge..” (Quran,
20:114)--- muslims are asked to say this lines

3-Read in the name of your Lord Who created. He
created man from a clot. Read and your Lord is Most Honorable, Who taught (to write) with the pen.
Taught man what he knew not-quran96:1-5-look how beautifully the koran emphasizes on reading and seeking knowledge

In fact the seeking of knowledge is so much cherished in islam that the prophet is narrated to have made as an obligatory duty for ever muslim

These should suffice

ari3l:
Yes they do. Their belief is science, don't you think they ask questions to get to knowledge of science they got to? I know of one who believes in miracles and he followed us to fellowship once, he's Chinese.

Even witches ask questions. Those who worship zoroaster and even taoism (practiced here in china) ask questions. Now why wouldn't islam ask questions? Haven't you thought something is wrong?
Think well...

first is an atheist belief isn't science,, second is the beauty of science is failing and trying new things,,but every1 feels the beauty and reward of religion is ultimate success

You don't get the point....there is no how you can so accept something without asking question and understanding it...the only possible means is to force people again and this kind of procedure doesn't last long...it would have stop immediately after the death of the tyrant

And we've listed a number of verses where islam welcomes dialogue but it seems you've turned a blind eye toward them

malvisguy212:
we are talking about the two religious book, yes christian ask question and loose their faith, but the bible never discourage christian to ask question. But the quran imply that some people ask question which NO muslims could answer, and this people loose their faith.

no..it said don't ask questions that "IF ANSWERED" not questions dat no muslims could answer

Now I put it to you that how do you term those questions atheist ask that have led them to atheism,,are they irrelevant question or has the bible fall short of providing succinct answers to such questions

ari3l:
A real christian never dumps his cause. Even with atheist here in China, many of them listen to Christians..tho not all the time.
And why would you want to become an atheist upon asking questions?

do atheists ask questions?
Quetions like if God is good..why d surfering,why will God want to punish people for eternity in Hell, why ARE WE CREATED unequal, WHO createD GOD

malvisguy212:
The quran say some people ask question and loose their faith, who are this people ? What question did they ask ? Who did they ask question ? Allah or muhammed ? And why the right answer are not given to them ?

such questions which lead people toward atheism.....christians too ask such questions and have become atheist,,although some are very intelligent questions only lacking intelligent answers but a whole lot of dem are unintelligent questions putting on the clothes of intelligence. Well the verse didn't say that does who asked the prophet the questions became faithless it only said those bEFORE them(their generation) have asked such questions and have as a result lost their faith

ari3l:
He doesn't understand, he wants to write and feel exhaulted. Before anyone writes he should have a clear understanding then come and write here. Don't complicate issues for yourself and people.

well you don't have to tear him into pieces

ari3l:
Very well, like what question do you term irrelevant? Explain further.

....like asking if God could change the whole universe to the size of a needle,,can god turn to a goat,,bring god to me lemme see how he looks.....really a lot of irrelevant questions exist

ari3l:
-90
Your ignorance is powerful. You don't seem to know anything in this life you came to. I seriously wonder how u managed to pass thru the university (if at all you went to one) what you scribbled here, does it in anyway match what I'm asking, two parallel lines is what you scribbled here.

Try and understand things before you write.

lol.....very sharp words from a lady

ari3l:
Why then was he angry when they asked him questions according to v 102 of your Quran? As a prophet of your holy one, he deem it fit to answer calls from your Allah, but cannot answer questions that his followers ask. I think it's wrong.

In Sunday school in church, I am known here in my church in Shenzen China to always ask questions to my preacher. Even when I come back to my Anglican church in Nigeria, I would ask my preacher questions and it's his responsibility to give me answers I want, God won't come down from heaven to answer me when he has his "prophet" or don't you concur to this?

you haven't asked him an irrelevant provoking question...there is a curious stage in every ones life, I also asked a lot of question as I was growing(still growing anyways) but on few occasions I asked irrelevant questions and happen to get irrelevant answers so to speak..I didn't because of the irrelevant questions I asked which yielded no answers turn my back on the teacher cause he as answered a lot of relevant question and opened the eyes of my heart.....so irrelevant questions especially when they come from those who they are not expected to come from could provoke anybody

WORDWORLD:
Did that single verse 5: 101 end with trouble followed by dash dash dash

Becoming angry by men of God when being asked irrelevant questions is found in the Bible many times. An expression by so many prophets. Even Jesus is not left out. He expresses his anger and even curses the Pharasies when the come with their provocative questions.

Jesus is many times called Son of man. Perhaps he was also being emotional like human beings.

Even God becomes angry despite being GOD that He is.

So Prophet Muhammad becoming angry being human that he is and with the Hadith not stating what it was the question being exactly asked him that made him emotional leave us and you in VAGUE.

The Quran is revealed in stages which infact was an enquiry by those who had no faith in Islam.

As thus:

"Those who reject faith (in islam) say: 'why is not the Quran revealed to him all at once?' Thus (is it reveealed), that We may strengthen thy heart thereby, and We have reheared it to thee in slow, well arranged stages, gradually" Quran 25 verse 32

Why in stages? One of the reason is because the Quran takes a form of a rebuttal to questiions hauled at the Prophet which in return he is commanded to say the answers as being revealed to him be Him, Allah who claims throughout in the Quran the Authorship, the speaker.

Also another reason is because the Quran does not demand belief but invites belief.

It is always questioning man. HAVE YOU MAN THOUGHT OF SUCH AND SUCH? HAVE YOU CONSIDERED SO AND SO? IT IS ALWAYS AN INVITATION FOR YOU TO LOOK AT THE EVIDENCE AND EXAMIN. AND NOT TO JUST BELIEVE DOGMATICALLY.

"And no question do they bring to thee but We reveal to thee the Truth and the best explanation" Quran 25: 33

As to you @ ari3l i will attend to you soon. I have to meet up with today's challenges to seeking for bread and butter for my flesh. Do worry i will be EXPLICIT with my answers if understanding is what you seek.

succinct

Annunaki:
Al taquiya nonsense. You are just grasping at straws, you have no point.

you've made no meaningful contribution with what you've just posted bro..contribute meaningfully

...proudly physicist...so must concur with number2.. as a physicist the universe is your laboratory

Number4 also physics makes you the open minded,easy going guy who can express himself in unlimited ways and still be right

Nice right-up o.p pray people will read this and redefine how they view physics

malvisguy212:
@ ari3l. The next verse even state the reason why Allah did not want muslims to ask question:

Verse 102
" A people asked such [questions] before you;
then they became thereby disbelievers."

And the hadith record, muhammad was annoy for question being thrown at him:

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 3, Number
92:
Narrated Abu Musa: The Prophet was asked
about things which he did not like, but when
the questioners insisted, the Prophet got
angry.

Why did Allah and Muhammad discourage
people from asking questions? What is Islam
trying to hide? Is blind faith the way to Islam?
Why did Muhammad become angry at those
who asked him questions? Why were people warned by Allah not to ask questions?
How is that in Islam, questioning can lead to
losing one’s faith? Does not this prove that even the right answers can lead to losing one’s faith in Islam?

Only an information control cult would
discourage anyone from asking questions. Is it
rational to accept any one religion as the true
religion without investigating or questioning it?
Surely not! Therefore, we will now question
Muslims about the teachings of Islam.

like I said the koran and the prophet on many occasions welcomes intellectual and scholarly endeavor

God asked men to ponder on the koran He also said are those with knowledge equal to does who have no knowledge..He also said [/b] call people to the way of your Lord with Wisdom(the result of knowledge and a good exaltation

How can such a religion which is makes great reference to seeking knowledge be against asking intellectual questions....the prophet is also recorded to have said ask me ask me before you loss me .....what kind of questions could be koran be against,,it could only be against questions that are irrelevant as you know people are fund of asking irrelevant question....for instance some1 could ask the prophet to bring God to him or such

Annunaki:
So if you have two cars moving apart from each other, that translates to mean the cars are still being built Only islamic thinking can reason like this

lol..what do you understand by the word "universe"

Annunaki:
Using this technique will probably lead us to a number of islamic propaganda websites. It's a known fact that saudi arabia spends a lot of their cheap oil money on islamic propaganda and they make dubious claims about islam's 'contribution' to science.

these men ain't even saudis and some ain't sunni muslims...lol...funny dude

Annunaki:
. Don't tell me you are this ignorant. An expanding universe claimed by science does not translate to mean the universe is still being built, all it means is that planetary bodies are moving further apart.

and here you are the enlightened fellow who doesn't know that expand is synonymous to build

ari3l:
Ha betatron,which one you day. The pharos body was found and thier culture and custom demands that they must embalm his body before he's buried don't you think so? Abi islamic right sef follow for that one?

Father of Chemistry
http://chemistry.about.com/od/historyofchemistry/a/Who-Is-The-Father-Of-Chemistry.htm

Trigonometry
http://www.ask.com/math/invented-trigonometry-cf89037dabeea21a

I don't need to read the rest. Your claims are not real. Make your research before you come here. Don't make this atheists laugh at you trying to give islam credibility.

a better way is to type the names of these men on google an see a faster response an easier way to make me a liar ...chuckles.....another important point I forgot to add is these men were polymaths

ari3l:
Egyptian mummies!
The embalming of pharos and noblemen of ancient Egypt? Who told you it has something to do with islam? And who also told you that science was / is born of islam? Name one inventor of science in islam let's hear you!

Islam is 1400 years old, not 1500 years old. Don't confuse yourself.

like I said the mummified egyptian pharaoh's body who drowned in the red sea was discovered around 1898 and I stand to b corrected

Never said science is born of islam....only tryna let you know that a lot of truths existed in the koran which were only discovered in the 21st century with the aid of sophisticated instrument

Talking about islamic inventors and scientists

1-ibn sina(avicenna)-father of modern medicine
2-abu al-qasim al-zahrawi-father of modern surgery
3-ibn al-haytham-- optics
4-abu wafa buzjani--trigonometry
5-jabir ibn hayyan-father of chemistry

The list goes on and on

Annunaki:
1. Pharaohs have been mummified for thousands of years before islam and it was the egytians mummifying the pharaohs themselves not allah according to the lying quoran.

2. That's a very vague claim you are twisting to mean expanding universe.

3. It's been proven countless times even on this forum that the quoran is not only poorly written, it's incoherent, inconsistent, full of errors, contradictions and outright lies. It actually betrays the fact that the author was a stark illiterate.

. 1 the mummified pharaoh body was discovered around 1898

2-you haven't explained what makes it vague

3-lol...where,,when and how was it proven? How can an unlettered person author a book? How senseless do you sound?

Annunaki:
The mathematics are just vacant claims being made by you with no statistics to back it up. Atheism growth in the middle east is currently the highest in the world and 99% of them are ex-muslims.

titters