rastamouse:

There is one fact about sins that the Bible did not explicitly spell out. Since I was born, I have known instinctively that gambling, any form at all, is a sin and that has to be the work of the HOLY SPIRIT. Once I have that inbuilt intuition, I will rather allow that to lead my path than take chances

If you have that weak of a conscience that you won't even think rationally about it, then let that be on you. Let your feelings guide you if you want. But don't come and tell others that its a sin to do because you had some "feeling." I'm a Christian, and I've never had the feeling that its wrong. So we have two Christians with two opposed "feelings." Who is correct?

I've given my reasons why I think it is acceptable. Instead of saying how you feel, do you have any rational or logical reasons as to why you think it is wrong?

rastamouse:

And who are you to determine who will be saved and who will not? Have you ever read about the thief on the cross? He even knew about JESUS more than some of the Apostles but yet lived his life as a thief. Was he saved or not?

He was because he was genuine in doing so. Someone that is genuine in serving God is going to turn their life over RIGHT AWAY to God. They no longer want to live their own life, but the life God wants them to. Someone who lives how they want their whole life and then flips when its suddenly suitable for them is not a Christian in my book. I know people by their fruit. That type of fruit is not about serving God but about serving themselves.

rastamouse:

I decided to ignore you but I may have to deal with you on this one. Whoever told you that I am here to debate? As an evangelist, I am here to present the facts and if anyone does not find it palatable, then that is their case. If you were intelligent, you would have seen from the beginning of the thread that the guy came up here on this thread just to spew out his ignorance. He asked me questions and I gave him the answers that he sought.

If that did not serve your interest then suit yourself.

I agree with you, you gave him the answer, but you do it in a terrible way which is my whole point. As an evangelist, you are supposed to win the hearts over of the people you speak to. Calling someone a fool three to four times is not winning their heart over. As an evangelist and Christian, you are supposed to give your best work to God. It appears to me like your slacking in that. I could call you a sinner after every post, because I know you are, but I don't do that do I? No, its not necessary. You answered his question, then called him a fool several more times. That is why I took issue.

musKeeto:

I won't diagree with you. The Bible does, though..

Ezekiel 33



Or would you bring up the OLD/NEW covenant excuse?

No, I would bring up what I said before about relationship and repentance. If you know you should repent, yet don't and live your life in sin until the last possible moment, you won't be saved. That would mean that you know God exists but never really sought out a relationship and repentance. To do that knowingly is unacceptable. What would happen to that person if they died unexpectedly? They knew God existed, yet never actually wanted to serve him until they wanted to (at the end of their life). God won't accept that kind of life, it was never really marked by any true repentance.

ea7: have you observed design with your own eyes? Do police men need to observe a crime with their own eyes to make a plausible guess about the crime? If there is a n intelligent designer he is not very smart. Case in point: down syndrome, sickle cell anemia, people dying at birth, blindness, why would he make humans intelligent but squishy? Einstein vs gorilla who wins? Who is more intelligent? Besides, wo designed the designer since he is intelligent and 'intelligence cant form on it's own'en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_falling. This shows you stupidity.

At a crime scene, policemen do need to observe the facts, and you certainly aren't taking common Christian believe into account when you try to refute it.

Christians believe God created the universe perfect, and when sin entered the world, it had an effect on everything. That is where sickness and unhealthy babies come from. And Einstein would most definitely win. Are humans overrun by gorillas, or any kind of animal now? No, we are intelligent beings, and we adapt and overcome. Einstein would use his incredible brain power to figure something out to win.

If God is omnipotent, and created time and space, then he lives outside of our understanding. He doesn't need a creator, he simply is. And your right, intelligence cannot form on its own, and that disproves evolution, because you didn't take into account your natural selection and how that should make intelligence form. You just contradicted yourself. If there is no creator, NOTHING can form on its own. That's why evolution is a fallacy.

rastamouse:

What makes you think you know everything? Did you read through the thread? Do you know anything about Christian temperaments? If I tell you that I am an evangelist, what will that mean to you? My friend, if you have nothing better to say, just stay off my case.

Like I said before, you just made another non-argument. You didn't present any facts, anything of value to the thread. You just spouted off an emotional response, one that really can't be debated over. That's why your a worthless debater. But I'll still take the bait.

1) What makes you think I know everything? I'm flattered you think that, because I sure don't, and I never said that either. There's another debating lesson: don't put words in someone's mouth.

2) What are you trying to say about Christian temperaments? What does being an evangelist have to do with anything? I'm a Christian, doesn't mean I have to be a jerk to people. Christ dealt with the Pharisees and Saducees all the time, yet only a few times did he insult them. Yet you verbally attack people in every post! I beg of you to show me why that's acceptable.

3) I won't your case until you put something worthwhile up in this thread.

Jenwitemi: God is not man but is a HE? Brain fart, that.

God is not man, he is God. Yet the Bible quotes him as a male, so that's where it comes from.

And I agree with you that Christians think they are protected against bad things because they believe in God. That's just not the case. Like you said...happens to everyone.

Logic Mind: it's all about control. the church doesn't like it when you are obsessed about something else. Everything that is potentially addictive has been branded sin: sexx, alcohol, smoking, gambling etc.

As a Christian, I see many churches that hold the view that gambling is a sin. I'm not really sure why. I've never seen anything in the Bible forbidding it, so at the worst, it is just unwise. People may be a bad steward of their money, but if you made the money and you tithe like the Bible commands, there should be no reason why you don't spend your money towards your interests.

If gambling was wrong, so would investing in any kind of stocks, its a huge risk as well.

dublinkmy6:
I fail to see the point in this post or the particular "doctrine" you are refering to: i must be missing something here, possibly a verse in the bible or something...

I agree. No clue what this is about.

rastamouse:

I agree with you my bro on several points on that but why would you call me rude? When John the Baptist called the people generation of vipers, was that rude or fact? Was it a fact or just plain rudeness when Paul called the Galatians fools? Is it rude or a fact when the Bible call someone who does not believe in the existence of GOD a fool?

In any case, if you read through the thread well, it was him who came here asking for how I should call him according to my Bible and as far as I know, I gave him the truth.

They also deeply knew the people that they called that, because they could see the actions that those people took. You know nothing about the people here, yet in a debate of facts, you resort to name calling. Its extremely adolescent, and yet you kept doing it. The best response you'll get from anyone over the age of 12 is an eye-roll because it makes you look like you don't know anything. The Bible may call unbelievers fools, but like I said, if you are truly trying to live a Christian life, you don't just call people that. You show a little respect.

musKeeto: Exactly why the Christian perspective remains illogical in the first place.

God would accept one who sells poison to people, yet believes in him at the last momenet, and reject one who helps save people but doesn't believe in Him...

I give up...

Actually, I disagree with people who think that way. You can't just life your life however you want to, and then think you will turn to God in your final moments and be saved. People like that think they can take advantage of God and use him as fire insurance, and its just not the case. A life purposefully lived out in rebellion to God won't be accepted by God.

However, I would say the second half of your statement is correct. Just because you do good things doesn't mean your reconciled to God. That is only done through relationship and repentance.

Sisi_Kill: You miss my point. . .not that I'm surprised.

No surprise there, every thread I go onto rastamouse is trolling, his arguments are incredibly weak so he stirs up conflict.

As to what you said before, I think it is because the Christians who dare to speak on the internet are attacked so easily. We know the arguments your going to say, so we often try to cut you off. I think this is done by both atheists and Christians, atheists just say things like "you stupid illogical faith believing..." and so on. You know our arguments and care more about proving us wrong than hearing us, and Christians do the same thing. I actually agree with you that if there could be some respect given for someone else's point of view, there would be much more effective debates.

Let's move on to your argument about going to the Bible and bringing up Hell everytime you disagree. I think first of all, bringing up Hell to scare someone because your losing an argument is pathetic. Its brought up so much it has lost its effect. And its only brought up when people are losing an argument. If they are winning, you never see it. Its the Christian way of saying "well I lost the argument, but you'll lose in the end1" and that is one of the most pathetic things I think a Christian can do. At least explain why or say it earlier in the argument. Don't just throw it out there because your a crybaby that lost.

As for why we quote the Bible: it is because we accept the Bible as fact. We go to a book just like you do. I am 100% positive that you haven't tested all the things you believe yourself, you have probably read most of them. So you still put your faith in books or websites too, its just from the opposite side of the spectrum. And you can't say your beliefs in evolution are scientifical because they have not been proven as fact, nor have they refuted Christianity, or it would not still be around.

And @rastamouse: You need to stop being rude. If you really a Christian, and want to win souls over to God, do you think calling people fools over and over is going to win them over to your cause? You should be even more cordial then them, but instead its the other way around. When you call someone a fool, it puts them on the defensive, it makes them not want to be won over to your cause, but to disagree with you. And then you just keep calling them fools after they bring up counter-arguments. You need to learn how to debate people. Name-calling and obnoxiousness doesn't win arguments or respect for you.

@LogicMind: perhaps my explanation will help clarify what that passage in the Bible means. The passage "from the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks" means that the words that we speak come directly from your heart, or your mind. This is actually a true statement, because you speak based off of the knowledge that you have and the emotions that you have. It does not mean that you speak from your physical heart, or I would definitely agree that the passage is illogical. The heart is kind of like your soul, or your mind.

Secondly, calling someone a fool does not necessarily mean that you are going to Hell. Proverbs has many passages calling men fools for not being wise. It does not just mean that you don't believe in God, but it can also be someone with a childish attitude, a lazy person, or someone who does not control their emotions. Also, you are misinterpreting the verse. Calling someone a fool makes you liable to go to Hell, it doesn't mean you automatically do. The way it works is that if rastamouse calls you a fool, then he is instantly available to be judged to see if he is a fool. I say this because of the verse "judge not, and you will not be judged." If rastamouse calls you a fool, he won't go to Hell unless he is deemed to be a fool by God. However, since he continues to call you a fool, doesn't back up his arguments well, and is really just trying to troll since he is getting verbally beaten down, I think its a safe bet that he is in the wrong on this one.

@Logicboy: I think if you look at it from a Christian perspective, those men are fools. You could leave your seventy years here on earth doing a ton of important things or advancing society. If you don't believe in God here on earth, and you stand before him in heaven, he won't accept "but I created the newest kind of allergy treatment" as a valid reason to pass through the gates. Therefore, all the brilliant minds of today that aren't Christians will be wishing they were just a little bit smarter as they are suffering an eternity in Hell. I don't ask you to agree to that, but from a Christian perspective, it does make logical sense.

I would encourage you to, unlike what other people are saying, question God. The last thing God wants you to do is just walk away. If you are truly a believer, talk to God. Ask him why it happened, ask for understanding. He might just bring it to you.

As for God not being a loving God, that is incorrect. God loves HIS OWN children unconditionally. He still loves everyone else as his creation but it is not the place of honor Christians will have. As a Christian, understand that God sometimes lets sin take its course in the world, and sometimes that does bring pain. It has been said before, but I will repeat it: if they were saved, then be very sad but also recognize that they are with the Lord, which brings some joy on their behalf. If they were not, then I'm sorry to say but God did not love them unconditionally, and they are going to Hell. If they weren't Christians, the argument against God being loving is moot.

Sometimes, bad things do happen to good people. God will let the natural course of sin take its course, because we are all affected by sin. HOWEVER, God will use bad things to ultimately turn them to good in the eternal sense. Take Christ's death. He suffered a terrible death, but now we can experience Christ's saving grace and the Holy Spirit. When the World Trade Centers were attacked, there were many many people who turned to God on that day, because realizing how death can come to us at any time is very humbling. To die while there is even a possibility of standing before an almighty God is very scary if you have not lived your life in repentance. Those are my thoughts on the subject. I pray that you do not turn your back on the love and comfort that God is holding out to you through this hardship.

Ok, let's try to move away from whatever snthesis is saying. If he were the leading force in the world for defending the existence of God, Christianity would be doomed. Being raised in a Christian environment, I've head all the arguments for God's existence. Recently, I've started wanting to hear what evolutionists think about certain things. So...I guess more out of curiosity than a want of debate, what are all of your arguments for how a universe and matter could be formed from nothing, and how do you refute irreducible complexity?