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Religion / Re: Can Christians Lose Their Salvation? by bigd4050: 4:29am On Apr 24, 2012 |
italo: That is like me saying that God created the universe from nothing. And then you saying "something has never come from nothing, we have this whole world as an example". I get what your trying to say, but when you compare God's nature and salvation, which are not definable by the world, to something material here on this earth, it doesn't work. Sure, you have given a great example to show what your trying to say, but it doesn't even brush up against what I'm saying because we are arguing two different realms. Your logic works here on this earth. I am talking about spiritual things. |
Religion / Re: Can Christians Lose Their Salvation? by bigd4050: 4:26am On Apr 24, 2012 |
@ i.chucka and 5solas...thanks for the support guys. I'm glad I'm not the only one who can see and recognize these truths. They are hard and difficult to understand, and sound harsh, but those that do understand have a deeper relationship with God and are able to live out these truths with more confidence, knowing that God is sovereign and his will is going to be done. Appreciate it guys! |
Religion / Re: Can Christians Lose Their Salvation? by bigd4050: 10:12pm On Apr 22, 2012 |
[quote author=frosbel][/quote] Frosbel, your attacking quite hard on this. Have I debated you before or why so abrasive? I agree with your first point. If Paul lives a life of sin, he will become a castaway. However, if he does, he would have never been saved in the first place. Those who have tasted the sweetness of God's grace cannot go back to a life of sin, or they were never truly thankful for God's gift in the first place. That is what I am arguing. If someone falls away from the faith, then they never had faith to begin with. Second, man does not have a choice. God changes mans heart, not man. Man can make choice, but not when it comes to having faith. The Bible clearly states that we were deaf, blind, and dumb to God and his truth. Do we suddenly make ourselves see then? No, we don't. God changes our hearts, our minds, helps us to see and understand. That is why if God wants you saved, you are saved. You may sin occasionally after that, but its never a practice. That is why when you see people fall away from the faith, its because they never had true faith to begin with. They might serve God for a time, but their true fruit always shows. That is why endurance is such an important factor. So now that its established that God is the one who opens people's eyes and saves them, why doesn't he do that for everyone? Because God has CHOSEN people. He always has. God never changes, right? So if he wanted EVERYONE saved, why didn't he offer up salvation or knowledge for the other nations around Israel? Because he doesn't want all people saved. He wanted all his CHOSEN people saved. That is why God just ordered Israel to destroy the other nations. This is difficult to understand. I expect a lot of fight back on this. But it all makes sense when you see my paragraph above, which cannot be denied. When God wants someone saved, he changes their heart. When God changes someone's heart, does he do it to no effect? No, that person is saved. The one who says God has changed their heart and falls away a year later is the one who is not saved, nor ever was. |
Religion / Re: Can Christians Lose Their Salvation? by bigd4050: 9:57pm On Apr 22, 2012 |
Image123: bigd Answering a question with a question. Nice one. There is a difference between our earthly bodies and our soul. Our bodies will fade back to dust whether we live righteously or carnally, so I'm not sure where you are going with that. |
Religion / Re: Can Christians Lose Their Salvation? by bigd4050: 2:42pm On Apr 22, 2012 |
italo: How very noble of you to invoke the Holy Spirit! Amazing that you are so positive he is working through you. Well, I will also say he is working through me, so I guess we have come to a standstill on that point. Second, you misunderstand your verse. He says in the very first word "if". That means HE DOESN'T KNOW. He is saying if you are, then you will partake in the nourishment. So your right, IF they weren't saved, they wouldn't partake. You decided something wrong in YOUR head. I think we understand your last point differently. You are saying that an apostle of Christ, one of the most influential, could possibly fall away from God. God chose them for very important roles, there was no way for them to be disqualified. There is a verse that says God can keep people from falling into sin. If God wants you saved, you will be saved. You act like its up to Paul to earn his salvation and keep it. He never did ANYTHING to earn it. So I will ask my question again that you still haven't answered: How do you lose your salvation if you have done nothing to earn it? |
Religion / Re: Atheist? Come With Your Questions. by bigd4050: 6:03am On Apr 22, 2012 |
all4naija: What did you want to know than God created man from dust? Is like you're not asking yourself how come about the dust - if you are using such analogy you wrote above to question Atheists. Indeed, your God must provide evidences of where he got what he used to create. You shouldn't argue about things you have no concept of. If God CREATED the UNIVERSE...he CREATED the MATERIALS to make the universe. There is no evidence of where he got it, he invented it all, created it all. he exists outside our universe, or he couldn't have created it. |
Religion / Re: Can Christians Lose Their Salvation? by bigd4050: 6:01am On Apr 22, 2012 |
Absolutely |
Religion / Re: Can Christians Lose Their Salvation? by bigd4050: 7:06pm On Apr 21, 2012 |
italo: Because Paul doesn't know for sure who is saved and who isn't. It is only shown by endurance in the faith. Therefore, those who do not endure, never were saved. It's not that they were saved and then lost their salvation, its that they were never saved to begin with. You assuming they had salvation when they did not. You don't know who is saved and who isn't. People can be accepted back into fellowship if they turn from their sins. We don't know who is saved or not, we just know that those who endure and serve God their whole life are the ones who are truly saved. There is no beating around the bush going on here, your getting angry because your not convincing me. Leave your emotions out of this. |
Religion / Re: The Reasons You Must Stop Arguing With Atheist. by bigd4050: 7:40am On Apr 21, 2012 |
musKeeto: My bad... wish most Christians take that advice too.. With some of the things I have seen on this site, me too man. |
Religion / Re: The Reasons You Must Stop Arguing With Atheist. by bigd4050: 6:53am On Apr 21, 2012 |
musKeeto: Did you see the word Christians in my post? Yes, you did. Your brain is meant to be used to think, friend. I encourage you to start. Your eyes are also meant to see and read things, I suggest you start doing that too. |
Religion / Re: Atheist? Come With Your Questions. by bigd4050: 6:51am On Apr 21, 2012 |
thehomer: That is like saying science can explain how the butterfly came to be, but not the caterpillar. How can you explain one without the other? Please show me? I've never heard how humans have come to be before from an atheistic viewpoint. |
Religion / Re: Can Christians Lose Their Salvation? by bigd4050: 6:47am On Apr 21, 2012 |
italo: Well gain understanding. I was responding to your last post. If you would pay attention, I say no. That's why you responded to me in the first place. How can you lose salvation if you've done nothing to earn it? |
Religion / Re: Right Thinking by bigd4050: 6:45am On Apr 21, 2012 |
OLAADEGBU: Or you could make a post that actually is on topic. You don't have to answer their objections in a thread that isn't designed to debate creationism vs evolution. You are the Christian not making a contribution. |
Religion / Re: Was Exodus Pharoah Really A Bad Man? by bigd4050: 6:53pm On Apr 20, 2012 |
This thread is so derailed lol |
Religion / Re: The Reasons You Must Stop Arguing With Atheist. by bigd4050: 6:51pm On Apr 20, 2012 |
D sage: Actually, to be an atheist means you reject God's teachings. They have no greater understanding of God's word than cattle, because they don't commune with God. If they were Christians once before, don't you think God can bring them back? I.e. prodigal son. Atheists are actually very logical. Their logic makes perfect sense, because they view everything by what you can see, and that is logical. However, God is not defined by logic, or anything else than man can think of. We get Atheists to stop thinking we are stupid when we actually have the courage to debate them, not call them fools or burning in hell. Those things have no effect. Win their respect, actually try to argue your side instead of giving up like you, and I think your views will change a little bit. 1 Like |
Religion / Re: Right Thinking by bigd4050: 6:46pm On Apr 20, 2012 |
OLAADEGBU: My contribution is by telling you to stay on point. I'll post something worthwhile once we actually get back on topic. If you want to debate things not involved in this thread, then go somewhere else. |
Religion / Re: Fasting And Prayer Questions Need Answers by bigd4050: 6:43pm On Apr 20, 2012 |
Ptolomeus: I certainly agree with fasting, its Biblical. I think your being extremely legalistic with your standards on fasting. I agree you should have an increased focus on God, but that doesn't mean you need to leave your home. Practice some self-control and just don't turn on your electronics for goodness sake. You haven't answered my questions about keeping a clean body if you have no clothes and are in a desert. How do you keep your body clean then..especially if you can't use your own home to wash? |
Religion / Re: Can Christians Lose Their Salvation? by bigd4050: 6:40pm On Apr 20, 2012 |
italo: I said we don't know because we can't really prove that God is coming back. Our hope is in what has been passed on to us through the Bible. That is why we have faith...because we don't know. Do you really think there is any way Paul wasn't saved? Do you think there was any doubt as to whether or not he walked with God? The person that truly loves God won't be in the practice of sin. |
Religion / Re: A Heavy Blow To The Atheists by bigd4050: 1:46pm On Apr 20, 2012 |
logicboy: I agree with the intention of what your saying. I think that scientific laws can help us. "Something can not come out of nothing". While that debunks evolution, it doesn't help creationism either, because where did God come from? We can say that he exists out of the laws of this universe, but that isn't proving he exists either. Scientifically, it leaves us at a stalemate. |
Religion / Re: Right Thinking by bigd4050: 1:30pm On Apr 20, 2012 |
OLAADEGBU: I sure do, the OP was talking about Scripture verses and how Christians should have a right attitude. If you wanted a debate about creationism, go find a thread that's actually talking about it. Stop trolling, there are plenty of threads where you can call Christians stupid all you want. |
Religion / Re: The Reasons You Must Stop Arguing With Atheist. by bigd4050: 1:27pm On Apr 20, 2012 |
D sage: Well friend, if you actually read my post, you would see I am a Christian. If you had really read MY post, you would see I never said you were preaching to atheists. I'm saying if you would actually debate them with respect and logical points, you might actually win one over to God. I'm saying you will refine yourself, and it exposes Christians like you with a pathetic attitude. If you aren't supposed to talk to people who don't believe in God, how will you ever save ANYONE? |
Religion / Re: Can Christians Lose Their Salvation? by bigd4050: 1:23pm On Apr 20, 2012 |
italo: Romans 5: 1 Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we boast in the HOPE of the glory of God. Because we don't absolutely know for sure. We trust in God and his promises, and we trust and hope that he will fulfill them. |
Religion / Re: Was Exodus Pharoah Really A Bad Man? by bigd4050: 1:21pm On Apr 20, 2012 |
musKeeto: If an nl user says he knows you personally and posts stuff about you on a thread, probably saying you're a serial killer, and then I BELIEVE THAT, does that make you a SERIAL KILLER? As plagues were coming down on you, would you want the slaves, if people were dying and your economy was being destroyed? And I don't know if your a Christian, but the Bible is accepted as infallible by Christians, so its not just people writing stuff. Even if it wasn't, your arguing complete hypotheticals. Bring something factual to this conversation... |
Religion / Re: The Root Of Man Problem... Lack Of Ability To Say SORRY by bigd4050: 1:16pm On Apr 20, 2012 |
Kingzonly: thank for your point of view...as I had mention be in this tread that saying sorry with your mouth it's not nescessary but with you heart even with your whole body after you accepted you are giuty,fault,siner... Remember a Man who had to son, the younger one request for his own property while his father still alive, he was given to him as he requested but lavish everthing due to his ignorance and after many year he repent and makeup his mind to go back to his father to say sorry, and seek for forgiveness...having hope of becoming one of his father slave not his son again, But due to his abition I mean his objective even when his father saw him, he was very happy, many have told me on this tread that why will they say sorry to God when he know us better, then answer this question,WHY WILL YOU ASK YOUR CHILD TO KNEE DOWN WHE HE/SHE OFFENDED YOU THEN TELL HIM/HER TO SAY AM SORRY MA/SIR, I PROMISE NOT TO DO IT AGAIN, as you also says always to Lord God? Well its a relationship with God, its just like if you slapped your wife on accident, she can't forgive you unless you actually want forgiveness. It teaches humility and respect. Imagine if you offended a king, you would apologize profusely. Well that get exponentially more serious if you offend the God of the universe. It also brings you back into a good relationship with God. 1 Like |
Religion / Re: Was Exodus Pharoah Really A Bad Man? by bigd4050: 7:07am On Apr 20, 2012 |
musKeeto: My argument wasn't that he was a better man. My argument was our image of Pharaoh would be influenced by a one sided account from his slaves. So we agree that he was a bad man? Also, not sure if the Egyptians would disagree with the Hebrews. Their Pharaoh was stubborn and didn't listen to advice. He got ten plagues brought from God put down upon them. He had a large amount of his army destroyed, as well as everyone's firstborn sons killed. All he had to do was let the slaves go. If their were polls for Pharaoh, I almost guarantee he would be at 0% likability. |
Religion / Re: Was Exodus Pharoah Really A Bad Man? by bigd4050: 6:52am On Apr 20, 2012 |
musKeeto: @bigd: Your argument here is that Pharaoh was probably a better man than how the Israelites painted him. This was your argument that I responded to... |
Religion / Re: Right Thinking by bigd4050: 6:30am On Apr 20, 2012 |
Why is creationism being debated here? That has nothing to do with the topic of this thread. |
Religion / Re: Was Exodus Pharoah Really A Bad Man? by bigd4050: 6:22am On Apr 20, 2012 |
musKeeto: @bigd: Ok...I'll ask again. What evidence is there that he was good? The Israelites may have written the book, and they would probably leave out the good, but they certainly experienced the bad things Pharaoh did. Since we have the bad things, and don't have the good things, Pharaoh is a bad man. |
Religion / Re: The Reasons You Must Stop Arguing With Atheist. by bigd4050: 6:20am On Apr 20, 2012 |
I am a Christian, and I disagree with the OP. There are many good reasons to debate atheists: 1) Witnessing opportunity: it is rare, but if you can actually convince an atheist that they are wrong, you have won someone over to God. 2) Honing your own personal beliefs: Why would you just want a bunch of Christians on here talking about how good God is? If you wanted that, go to church. Debating on forums is an excellent way to see if what you think stacks up against what other people think. If nothing else, it refines you. 3) It actually exposes many Christians: there are many Christians that post on this site that really have no idea what they are talking about. When they get destroyed by the atheists and the Christians for making such illogical and stupid statements, it should open their eyes. I have yet to see that on this site, but I have seen it on others. The two big ones I have seen on this site are Rastamouse and Synthsis. They might throw a good point or two out there, but most of their stuff is just garbage that shouldn't be accepted by atheists or Christians. 1 Like |
Religion / Re: The Root Of Man Problem... Lack Of Ability To Say SORRY by bigd4050: 6:12am On Apr 20, 2012 |
The root of man's problem is sin. An unwillingness to serve God (unwillingness because we always have a way out of temptation, so to sin is to choose sin over God). The apologizing would not be necessary if we had a proper heart to serve God, as we once did. |
Religion / Re: Was Exodus Pharoah Really A Bad Man? by bigd4050: 6:08am On Apr 20, 2012 |
Yes he was, his heart was against the Lord. He oppressed God's people. He tried to thwart God's plan with the Hebrews. He tried to kill Moses, the Lord's right hand man. What is the evidence that he was a good man? |
Religion / Re: Can Christians Lose Their Salvation? by bigd4050: 6:02am On Apr 20, 2012 |
I agree that eternal salvation does exist. Once you are truly saved, how could you ever lose your salvation, when you never did anything to gain it? I think the difference is when someone is not truly genuinely saved, that we see the grossest sins come out, or just outright defiance to God. If you are saved, that means you love God and have given your life over to him for eternity. If you serve God for 20 years, then decide to just start living however you want to, the question isn't "is he still saved?"....the question is "was he EVER saved?" because the true Christian will not stop following God. |
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