rastamouse:

How is this a beneficial response to further any kind of conversation or debate?

rastamouse:

This guy is really pathetic

You can repeat things that I've said about you...good job.

Enough smileys for you? You seem to like them.

Okija_juju:

So I guess the pain from the tear of a hymen on a virgin is good as it makes her coohie stronger or what?!!

What harm does a.nal sex bring please?!

Why don't you look it up instead of lapping up everything that LogicMind says? I shouldn't have to post obvious things that you can just look up. Some of the responsibility is on you to actually understand what is being said instead of demanding answers. Present a real counterargument and I would be happy to reply

logicboy:

I have already explained how lighting and sand naturally occur without God (Sand through rocks and wind.....lightening electrical charges in clouds). If lightenting and sand already occur without God as millions of other natural processes occur without him, why should we start believing that God created nature without any shred of evidence.?

Boom! That's the sound of your argument being blown to pieces!

That's quite an arrogant statement to make. Congrats' you've just disproved God and done with no other person has ever done before! WOW!

Sike. No process could orginally occur. How did the lightning get there? How did the electical attraction happen? how did the sand particles get there? How did the rocks and wind get there?

You can't say anything just happened to be there. By your own standards, that is scientifical fallacy.

logicboy:



God didnt create leprosy? Leprosy is caused by bacteria. Bacteria are plants. God did not create plants? Epic failure by Rastamouse!


But the smartest people in the world- accredited scientists majorly do not believe in God, are they fools?

I agree Rastamouse is epic failure, but God didn't directly create it. Someone who makes propane tanks does not directly create a fire when one explodes. God created the plants, but because of sin, Christians believe that everything is tainted. In a perfect world before sin, leprousy did not exist.

And I won't say they are fools, I like to show more respect and our good friend Rastamouse still needs to learn that. The Bible does call them fools, but no need to blast all atheists like that. The won't be saved, because they don't believe in God. They are the smartest people, very intelligent, but if they end up in Hell, what good is their intelligence?

Logic Mind:

the bolded is what you were implying. NOT ME!
i can't start telling people not to take heroin because i don't take it. If they are rich and mature enough to buy heroin, they know what they are getting and if they no longer want it they should stop on their own. same with a'nal sex practitioners. none of my business. neither is it yours by the way, whatever your holy book might tell you.

You misunderstood me. I'm saying if we took your line of thought, no one should work out. I'm saying some pain is good for the body, it makes it stronger. Working out was my example.

You see, I understand what your saying, but as a Christian, I can't condone things that will bring harm like that. Neither of those things are beneficial. Heroine destroys you and anal sex brings harm. I'm not saying I'm gonna go around telling people that, its a rather small point in the spectrum of Christianity, but I won't say I agree with it either. Fair enough?

logicboy:

At least, I can agree with you on certain issues.

However, the issue of hell is the most useless things about christianity. There are serial murderers and rapists in prison that are now living good lives in prison as they have repented. They even preach the gospel to fellow inmates. These murderers will go to heaven but Ghandi who lived like a saint will go to hell for dying as a hinduist? Come on, you have got tot be kidding me

Read my above response to dare2think.

dare2think:

Dear Friend,

If doing these wonderful acts;

-Bringing world peace
-Ending famines
-feeding every child
-stopping human trafficking

have no relation to God, then one must wonder what kind of God you are serving!

I have always felt some sort of 'selfishness' with religious people! Its really sad.

One would have thought that they, 'religious folks', would be the most tolerant set of people. But alas, bigotry is the order of the day.


It either our way or hell/destruction! Since there are several hells including the islamic hell and the Christian hell, there seem to be no hope for humanity!

Every one is going to some sort of hell.
It's farcical and hilarious

Actually, that's wrong. It's not our way. It's God way. No Christian will tell you otherwise. Don't twist my words. You can have a deep deep care for people, and want to help them all. If you aren't doing it for God, it doesn't matter. For the third time, WORKS DO NOT SAVE YOU. Why would God let someone into heaven who never thinks about him, does anything in his name, just helps make earth better? God would be like I didn't know you, and you didn't know me. That's why relationship is important.

misssexy u:
why dont you focus on the main topic? is this necessary? try to sympathize with our dear sister.

Agreed.

logicboy:


You derailed your own argument!

1) As an ex-catholic, catholics do not believe Mary is God. While they do honour her, they never say that she is God. "holy mary, mother of God, pray for us sinners....." Do you tell God to pray for you!

2) If you brought world peace a an atheist, you would have still saved christian lives, is that not related to God?

3) You know in your heart that in christian theory, Hitler can go to heaven as long as he died as a repented christian but Ghandi, who died as a Hinduist, would go to hell. Christianity is rubbish

Its not rubbish you are just disregarded what I told you. Hitler could have gone to heaven if he repented but, so could Ghandi. Hitler killed himself and went to Hell. Let's stick to reality, not the hypotheticals.

About Catholocism, perhaps your Catholic church did not praise Mary as God, but I know some do. Besides, who else in the Bible is called holy besides Christ? Praying to Mary for anything is wrong, she is not God.

And no, bringing world peace does not make you a Christian, its not a works based thing. You have to have relationship with God and be serving him through those actions.

logicboy:

Lol......that's the point. Even if God owns them, he doesnt own their creations, he did not create their creations, they did it themselves. So, for you to use their gadgets and call them fools is only testament to your disgusting hypocrisy and ungratefulness.

Have you asked yourself why you have served God, yet atheist countries do better than your country (which has less than 1% atheists). Also why is it that atheists are contributing to humanity more than what you christians or your god did in this present day? Your God brought leprosy with no cure but modern scientists (respected scientists who are majorly atheists) have cures for leoprosy at its infant stage.


If you really believe that Bill Gates is a fool, then stop using your laptop, the bible says that you should avoid a fool, lest you engage in his foolishness. Stop using facebook. Dont use Japanese cars. Lets see how your life plays out

I can completely understand why you think that way, especially with rastamouse's inexcusably pathetic defenses.

I think of it like a parent to child relationship. The parent gave birth to the child, owns the house the child lives in, and so in turn everything in it. The parent lets the child run around and play and do what it wants, but if the child gets a toy, while the parent lets the child keep it, the child does not have the money to buy its own toy. Bill Gates has invented some great things, but his mind is given to him by God, the materials for making computers or discs with Microsoft Word on them are God's. He created everything so all things are his. Bill Gates still deserves his money, but he did not just bring Microsoft Word together out of thin air.

As far your argument against sickness, why is it bad that leprousy had no cure then? There was simply not the technology to find a cure before sceientists did. Jesus healed people of their leprousy in the Bible, if that is what you mean.

Logic Mind:

There you go again. How do you know that a'nal sex brings harm. Any a'nal practitioner told you or is it from personal experience.
Secondly, if bringing harm makes something wrong in your opinion, then childbirth is wrong and vag.inal sex should not be practiced as it leads to childbirth pain and even death.

That's an obnoxious statement. No one should ever work out then, or push themselves in any way. Some harm is good, if it is to help your body get stronger like tearing down your muscles. I have heard from plenty of people who practice anal sex that harm does come. I don't need the personal experience. Your holding a complete double standard about experience compared to what people tell you. Because I hold the stance of a Christian, I have to try it, yet you don't need to try heroine because other people think its harmful? What about the people who enjoy using it to get high? Shouldn't you try it for yourself, maybe you have a high tolerance for it and won't be affected? Your standard for me applies to you as well.

numo86: :-).....I agree there a lot of denominations...
But what I dnt understand is even chrches that r suppose to be under 1 umbrella still keep dividing into splinter groups but @ d end of d day do and worship exactly d same way........
E.g. .....we know there are d prosperity pentecostals....comprising of d redeemed,winners,christ embassies,kicc's,trem's,etc.....
Why are they nt answering just 1 name since they do exactly d same things and infact they inter-mingle well??....
......I jus dnt get it when I see smaller groups breaking out just to replicate d same acts practiced in his or her former place of worship.......confusion here and there...
I'm nt gonna judge any1 but if churches that are splitting will still practice exactly what its Father church practiced then why seperate?
I like to be where there aint no imitations...where procedures are almost a replica of how d apostles were organised...

I agree, it is a shame. The reason they split is over one issue that is not related to the overall message of the gospel, or it is but is perverted. For instance, Lutherans believe that baptism directly saves you, and you can be baptised as an infant. This is not shown anywhere in the Bible, so many other's disagree. No compromise was ever met, so there goes the denomination. There should be healthy debate and you never see that, people just go off and start their own church...much the the anglican church just because the king of england wanted a divorce.

rastamouse:

Emo, it is unfortunate but inevitable. For instance, I am a Methodist and there are a lot of things I don't agree with my own denomination. One of such things is that i don't see the reason why my tithe should be recorded. I see tithe as something personal and my left hand should not even know about what I placed in my right hand. However, my Church insist. Since this is not something that threatens my going to HEAVEN, I oblige.

Most of the issues that separate us as Christians can be attributed to small differences in basic Bible interpretations. This should be expected because JESUS made it clear that only the HOLY SPIRIT is the spirit of truth and can bring out the truth in the scriptures.

My personal advise to you is that read the Bible and pray to the HOLY SPIRIT for discernment. That is a sure way to have personal relationship with GOD which will not be based on any denomination.

It should not be inevitable though. There are many scriptures that talk about the need to be united. That means in speech, action, and doctrine. To have so many denominations is a black mark on Christianity because it shows that we cannot agree on the truth of the Bible. It isn't necessary to disagree, and there weren't always denominations, so I'm not sure what point your trying to make.

logicboy:

Thank for you for being calm and respectful even when we both do not agree. This is the problem with many christians here on Nairaland! They know they are losing the argument and so, they start calling atheists fools and say that we will burn in hell! They should remain civil and stick to the topic.




As for your christian perspective, it is rubbish; Pope Gregory IX in the 13th century accepts Jesus Christ as a christian but enforced the slavery of non-christians. Pope Gregory can repent and go to heaven. Ghandi is a Hinduist who negotiates the peaceful freedom of his people and lives a chaste life but he will go to hell since he died as a Hinduist. Is your religion fair or just plain rubbish?

I agree half the reason I started posting on this site is because all the Christians were posting complete nonsense and making themselves look like five year olds. I may not be the best debater but at least I can argue from a non-emotional temperament.

I think that your confusing faith with perfection with your example. No one who believes in God is perfect by any stretch. I think especially in those times, slavery was such an accepted thing it probably didn't even occur to them that it was wrong. It was just the way things were. That's how everyone thought. I think if those same people lived today, their viewpoint would be much different having an understanding of what society without slavery looks like.

When it comes to Christianity, only faith and repentance alone will bring you to God. If I brought world peace, ended famines and brought food to every single child, and stopped the human trafficking market, I would have done some very good things. But they have no relation to God because none of those acts were done for him or to further his kingdom. Works alone will not save anyone, because everyone has sinned and that makes them worthy of Hell.

(By the way as a side point, I really don't think many Catholics are going to heaven. Some will, but many elevate Mary to the position of God as well, which is blasphemous)

Okija_juju:

To add to this, R.ape, Slavery, Murder, Molestation are all crimes, none of them are consentual and if you try it, you will go to jail.

But a'nal sex between two consenting married adult couples is not in the same ball park.

Heroine, like cigarettes is also not a sin, the dependence on these substances is a sin. Its also a crime. But it being a crime does not necessarily make it a biblical sin. Morals and sin are mutually exclusive. .

Tell him to try another analogy.

Good response by the way.

The reason his response is wrong is because he stated that "you can't know something unless you try it." Now he says "I can know something I haven't tried because other people tell me." That is a contradiction. The fact that anal sex is consentual and the others are not is irrelevant. They both WILL bring harm to the person the act is done to.

Logic Mind:
how can you disagree with something you haven't tried?
she might even like it and be getting it from someone else.

That's quite an interesting statement. To not disagree is to agree, correct? So would this mean that you agree with rape, slavery, murder, and heroine because you have never tried or done those things. Unless of course you have.

rastamouse:

Are you serious? Since when has men ever agreed on things of religion? Do you know what happened in the early church?

That's exactly the problem. There should be an agreement or Christians look like a bunch of chickens with their heads cut off.

rastamouse:

Keep tickling yourself

And you wonder why I say you troll. That's what you pulled out of that whole post? And you wonder why I say I smashed you. I gotta get going its 4 a.m. by me. Till tomorrow

I agree Christians should be ashamed of themselves for this happening, because they are supposed to be unified.

Why do you say hypocrisy is the dealbreaker?

rastamouse:

What do you think you did up there? You just wrote rubbish. The main issue that GOD HIMSELF (and JESUS demonstrated it) that whoever repents- as long as the person is still alive- will be saved. What is your point to support that such a person will not be saved?

Have you ever heard of the parable of the farmer who hired several people at different times of the day and paid all of them the same wage at the end of the day? Pray that you do not rather lose your salvation at the last hour because you will not be considered because of your earlier deeds.

I am surprised you don't know about what I said about Peter and Judas. The way you came jumping in, you gave the impression that you had some little knowledge of the scriptures but it is obvious that you are a novice. Go and do your research on Peter and Judas before we continue this.

Really? Your going to get all uppity on one point after I've been smashing you in every other thread on every other point? You are unbelievably arrogant in yourself. I'm no novice I simply don't understand the point that you are trying to make, that is why I want you to explain it. I know Scripture pretty well.

YOU ARE STILL NOT UNDERSTANDING MY POINT AT ALL. The point is not about when people are saved. If their heart is genuine, they could be saved as they take their last breath. But under the context of someone purposely waiting their whole life to repent, it doesn't make logical sense that they would be saved. Their heart motivation is not truly there. Even demons can know God exists, but they don't serve God, so they won't be saved. The same with the person who knows God exists but doesn't want to serve him at all, they just want to utter "forgive me" at the end, and they think they will skate right into heaven. That's such a cheapening of salvation.

rastamouse:

You do anal sex with your wife ? We my conscience definetely tells me that is very wrong. Have you considered the health implications?

I actually disagree with anal sex too lol. Bj's totally fine though!

Pastor AIO: In fact from the evidence of most people's post in the thread where Avicenna declared his Atheism it appears that most christians are gamblers. They are gambling with their life using the formula known as Pascal's wager.

I've heard of that. At least they point their money on the most logical possibility.

ea7: lol poor old einstein would be steam rolled. Blackteeth said i should not debate using christard tenets, since you are one head over to my bible review thread and comment.
I put that intelligence can not arise from a dead universe in quote marks for a reason.
I listed reasons why we are not designed. Did you go to the link i posted? Do you know how evolution was discovered, i find it rather plausible.

First off, I apologize for not interpreting your quotes correctly, that was my mistake.

Second, I have no idea what your link is trying to say, can you put it into layman's terms for me?

Third, how was evolution discovered? By observing finches or by something else?

Fourth, I disagree with you about the gorilla winning. They are always stronger than any human, but humans are smarter and that's why we are the dominant species on the planet (I don't care about this point at all I just think its funny )

rastamouse:

I can only laugh at you. You are here for a debate? Well there may be many people around who may be ready to engage in unfruitful debate but I only seek those that will bring some fruits. adieu!

Well if your leaving I have done my job

Okija_juju:


Very Sound. .

Maybe you would consider being a guest Preacher at my nest Crusade.

I liked it too, it made a lot of logical sense. It is good to see someone being bold in calling it noble when most people are afraid to even say it is okay. I had never thought of it in the way you put it, but it is eye-opening.

rastamouse:

LoL...You don't understand English as well. I rest my case on you

Lol dude just admit that your wrong for once. You haven't rested any case..you didn't even make a counter-argument or prove a point!

rastamouse:

Have you said anything different from your last post? You are saying that Peter was better than Judas? If Peter was forgiven for doing three-times what Judas did, what makes you think that if Judas had not hanged himself, he will have been saved?

How did you know that the heart of the thief was genuine and not that of a person who has been caught? Every thief will tell a policeman that he will not repeat the offense. How was the repentance of the thief any different from that one? Did Christ ever tell anyone while on this planet that "you are not forgiven because your repentance is not genuine"?

Yes, Christ has said that. When people come and say "I did works in your name and did miracles! And I spoke in your name!" Christ says "I did not know you." Those people's repentance was not genuine. There's one point for me.

2) The repentance if the thief was different because Christ said it was. Other than that, I would have no idea. But we know that just because you do some good acts and say some good things doesn't make you a Christian. See my last sentence for that. The repentance MUST be genuine. The thief's heart changed right there, because he confessed right there and Christ accepted it. Someone who knows they should repent but doesn't is living in rebellion. I don't know how many times I must repeat this.

3) I'm not sure I understand your first point about Peter and Judas, can you explain that again?

rastamouse:

You are one funny character. Unlike you, did you realize that I intentionally limited my response to myself? Did I prescribe it to anyone? You are practicing a very dangerous form of Christianity by telling people what is sin and what is not. What will be your fate when GOD comes back and tell us that gambling is indeed a sin? Will you tell HIM that because HE failed to write it in the Bible you can go scot-free?

The logic that you gave is as good as poo regarding why gambling is not a sin.



Tithing is by no means a way to cleans filthy money!

Actually, your wrong. You never prescribed gambling to just yourself. You said "I have known instinctively since birth that gambling was a sin because the Holy Spirit told me." You never said it just being a personal standard, you naturally applied it to everyone. YOU told EVERYONE else what sin is, and its sin not put in the Bible My point is that God won't say gambling is a sin because it is a wisdom issue, not a sin issue. It becomes a sin if you blow all your money on gambling and lose it, because you are a poor steward. But if you want to take a little bit that wouldn't harm you, I say go for it. And you can't just call it filthy money and not say why. Your still stuck on the "I just feel like its wrong" thing, and that's unacceptable. You can't prove its wrong. You just have a feeling. So your point is moot.

I am a Christian, yet the fact that there are so many denominations bothers me, because Christians should be united on one truth. How important is the fact that Christians don't agree on some points? Is it sufficient that we all mainly agree on the gospel message?

Atheists: How does the fact that there are denominations play into your refutation of Christianity? Is this an ultimate refutation or just a minor point to you guys?

rastamouse:

Why don't you just concentrate on giving your points? I might not be this charitable on you the next time. and BTW what are the logical points that you think you make?

Your not being charitable...your being outdone. I already laid out my points, read my above post. I encourage you to start doing the same instead of trolling.

rastamouse:

Have you read the text at Luke 23:40-42? Are you saying the guy came to CHRIST's saving knowledge only on the cross? The guy knew he was going to die and asked to be saved. He was saved so what makes you think that will be different for others?

In any case, as Muskeeto pointed out, GOD has told us HIMSELF that anytime that we repent, once we are still alive, HE will forgive us.

Repentance is an actual heart change, not just words you say. If what you said is true, than no Israelite or Jew would ever go to Hell. They all offered sacrifices to God in repentance, and yet there were times when God opened up the ground to swallow them whole in disgust. Judas was with the disciples for three years, learning from Christ, I'm sure he did some verbal repenting. Yet he betrayed Christ and killed himself. He wasn't saved.

Like I said in my last post, the guy on the cross had a genuine heart change. That was what made the difference. Someone who doesn't really want to repent until he is about to die, when he knows he should, will not be saved.

That being said, I think there are some people that do come to Christ on their deathbed, having finally accepted God's grace. But these are the people who didn't tell themselves forty years earlier that "they would repent and accept God" on their deathbed.