₦airaland Forum

PapaBrowne:
Maybe EFCC would be good for him. But just not CBN.
The guy is a destroyer and all he has done is batter the Nigerian economy!

Anything to get him out of CBN is good.

Still waiting for your prophecy of Sanusi's resignation in 3 months to come true. One and a half month don pass already, and there is no sign of the reforms slowing down.
In fact the house of reps recently passed the AMC bill, and the senate and reps banking committee have stated their support.

Want to retract your prophecy?

naijaking1:
I take it that you've just landed from outer space that you don't know about the goverment direct not to "mess" with it's agents?
Well, just in case your space ship has just landed, or you've suffered a cerebrovascular accident that wiped off your memory, or you just want to retort "prove it" like you usually do, here is a link to one of our previous discussions on this issue.

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-343242.0.html


Enjoy, and report back later.

Typical misrepresentation.
1. How does fuel marketers owing the banks , due to non payment by the government, equate to the govt owing the banks? Are fuel marketers now government agencies?
2. All you have is an article claiming a directive from the FG with a nameless source.
3. Yet the article said action was halted against them, not that their names were removed from the list.
4. From the article:
However, Mr. Billy Agha, acting director, Department of Petroleum Resources (DPR) said names of all petroleum marketers being owed subsidy arrears by the PPPRA have been removed from the list of debtors being investigated by the EFCC.
is removal from EFCC list now the same as removal from the CBN list?

Again it has been shown that you are simply making false claims.

naijaking1:
The greatest fraud of all times is not publishing how much the greatest debtor to these banks owe in comparison to individuals and companies.
And who is the greatest debtor? The government and its agencies.
An honest analysis of all the bad debts in bank XYZ would have been to start from the highest debtor to the smallest, not pick and chose.

Any proof?
Simply provide reference for the non-performing loan owed by the government to any of the banks that makes them the greatest debtors. Again feel free to pick any bank of your choice.

naijaking1:
Lie, Lie, liar
The interim executives are working for whomsoever appointed them-----Sanusi's CBN.
The shareholders, depositors and owners of these banks have no say, not a word about how these banks are currently run. Many of these executives were recruited with the sole purpose of selling off the banks, not to return them to core investors.
At least, you should try to be truthful to the many public statements of your paymaster over the past 9 months.

If the sole intention was to sell the banks, they wouldn't bother recovering the debts, and would have simply let them be seized by the NDIC and put up for sale. Infact it is would have been easier for the CBN to simply inject the funds as tier 1 capital, and in turn sell that investment to the target party.

There is nothing to support your allegations of 'sole purpose'. Selling the banks, in part or whole, to new investors is simply an option that is on the table.

RoadStar:
I thought that as the former MDs were sacked for incompetence and mis-managing the banks.
I thought that the new MDs were working for the banks.
If so when will the banks be returned to the board(Become independent).

I think it is very wrong for CBN to be running a bank without nationalising them.
While sanusi might be pursuing ethical banking, this issue is ethics turned on its head.
Unexplained holes makes sanusis reform to lack credibility.

There is something totally wrong with this approach .

The interim executives are working to protect the interests of the bank, which includes the shareholders and depositors. The banks will be back under the control of the shareholders once the CBN funds are refunded and the banks are adequately capitalized. With AMC almost ready to buy most of the toxic assests, hopefully that should happen before the end of the year. The more debts recovered, the less injection of capital are required by the banks, and the faster the shareholders can regain their banks.

Do you really 'own' the house when their is a mortgage lien on it?

marvix:
@oyb, l didnt say that all civil servants are bad, just like not all our leaders are bad so when i gave an overview of what a majority of civil servants are, he took it personal and involved his parents.

My arguements were not countered by him if you will try going through our previous posts , you will see that he just took one of my comments and brought it out of context and wanted to show off, and thank you for concuring with me in saying that the NEPA staff are part of the problem and that was what i was trying to say before the young man came up trying to show off his NYSC experience and the truth be said i dont like it when people dont want to see anything good in what others are doing and trying to make everyone look bad.

If his dad was Babalola would he like the comments he made about him to be made about his dad?

A simple apology would have sufficed. Your reference to his parents were uncalled for.

The pricing is less of a concern if they can deliver the service. The incumbent tariffs are unsustainable without heavy govt subsidies, money that should be invested in improving the infrastructure.
Every party, from generation plants to the consumer, need to do their part. We need the government to accelerate the reforms in the sector, so that people can get what they are paying for.

paddy_lo:
In other words u have no clue as to what needs to be done
except keep doing what we have been doing for the last 20yrs
Keep pouring money into a black hole, and expect a different outcome

Its people like u that have connived to keep Nigeria Backwards for generations
Am sure u would have also wanted Govt to keep spending Money on NITEL and MTEL
so that some silly politician will eat all the money and provide us with useless Nought Nine Nought(090)

Ten yrs ago even though NITEL had the whole Nigerian market to themselves a virtual monopoly
they could not even provide more than 2million mobile lines
but we know where we are today,with GSM companies that have invested more than $18bILLION in the sector since 2001

For u to keep arguing for a Govt run power sector in nigeria
is to act like u just came down from the moon
We are one of the most corrupt nations in the world
The Power sector is one of the most Capital intensive in the world

it doesnt take a brain surgeon to see that there is ample room for corrupt practices to flourish
Most Economists dont say deregulate for the sake of deregulation
they know it reduces corrupt practices,while significantly improving the lives of the mass populace

Enjoy your blatantly corrupt and patronage fueled broken system while u can
one thing i know is,that system can never work, and Nigerians will get rid of it sooner or later

I gave you an idea of the current state of things in Nigeria, and yet you could not point out a single flaw backed up with a sound argument. Instead you keep going on about things that have little to no relation to the status quo

Its people like you who are the bane of Nigeria: semi-illiterates, who think they know what they do not know. They sit on their behinds and run their mouth claiming to be experts in areas they are clueless on. You feel what is done in the US is always the solution to the problems in Nigeria, and would have us 'import' solutions without regards for the local context or giving room for fallibility on the part of the US. That you throw around words like privatization, deregulation, and liberalization, without knowing what they mean or their effects, is just further proof that it is hopeless discussing the issues with you. Yet you deny yourself any opportunity of improving your knowledge.

That you claim Nigeria has been doing the same thing for the past 20yrs and liken the power sector to telecoms, are just further evidence of your ignorance of the issues at hand. It will be better if you leave those who know better to move Nigeria forward, and instead simply enjoy the comforts provided to you by others. I have not the time, nor the inclination, to proselytize the likes of you, and rather you be on your merry way and simply not be a dog in a manger.

The Nigerian power sector is moving in the right direction, and while the implementation has left a lot to be desired, the plan is sound enough and in line with best practices in the world (and not some myopic view from a end consumer in the US system)

paddy_lo:
The point is deregulate the sector, stop playing dumb, let private sector companies generate and distribute power,and let them own their own grid
Let Govt own and fund PHCN,if it chooses
The system will be like the FEDEX and USPS analogy i provided,

You keep making all these wrong statements. Fully deregulating the sector puts the people at the mercy of the providers. It is not done. Like I said earlier, even the US power sector is regulated by the PUCs,  FERC, DoE etc
Nigeria has already unbundled the power sector into DisCos, GenCos and TransCos, and invited private participation where suited, but you obviously dont know that and you keep harping on irrelevant points.

U keep making these statements, that defy sense,then let them go from a national grid network to a regional one,
let the law be changed that is the position thats being canvassed here by me
Let any company that wants to own a grid network own one,

No. Because having a single grid under one transmission company is the best option for Nigeria. Other countries have single grid, and even places like the US are retracing their steps by having the transmission networks interconnected, and you are suggesting we go in the opposite directions.

another of your meaningless statements, again u defend the status quo, but claim u dont,
so they should generate and dump into the useless national grid?
the grid network is failed, yet u keep holding it up as some kind of good thing
like FELA said Govt Magic, u turn blue into green, lol

Seems you dont know the purpose of having a grid. The grid is what isolates the generation from the distribution phase, and helps smoothing out demand. Without a grid, you will be over budgeted and pay excessive costs for it. Having problems doing what is right is not justification for doing what is wrong.
The IPPs have PPAs that guarantees them payment for their generation.

California electric crises, lol, i just showed u a company AEP that owns its own grid networks and generates 38,000MW of power
the fact remains that there is no one Govt owned grid in America ok?
(AEP ranks among the nation's largest generators of electricity, owning nearly 38,000 megawatts of generating capacity in the U.S. AEP also owns the nation's largest electricity transmission system, a nearly 39,000-mile network that includes more 765 kilovolt extra-high voltage transmission lines than all other U.S. transmission systems combined)

and that is why California was having power outages when nearby states had excess, but they couldnt supply california. Same happened with the NE blackout of a few years back.
Since then the US has created 2 main national grids and two smaller regional ones and all have been effectively interconnected into a single grid and here you are suggesting we break it down.

and if they increse their prices close to generators, then Lagos state govt would have defeated the purpose and can choose to stop buying from Oando
thats the whole point, u increase the price too much,then your customers bail.
unless the laws of economics dont apply in your world

The point was how far can I go? There is enough margin for OandO to gouge prices (unless you are saying paying generator rates is not price gouging). The alternative is less relevant when the point at which it kicks in is beyond reason.

Another silly,meaningless statement, i am advised to reduce my load, but its not my choice to make?
then who makes it for me?, bottom line u use more power,u pay more
there is therefore an  economic incentive to use less,
your long winding statement is just an attempt to obfuscate,

Everywhere in the world you use more of a priced commodity, you pay more, but not necessarily marginall more. The increase in MC cost is where I dissuade you from doing it. If there was no increased MC then you can claim that the choice is wholly yours. So, the choice is not fully yours to make, as I dictate the options available to you.

so lets get this straight, heres an analogy for u,
Most people take the train or bus From Philadelphia to NewYork city
However some people fly
Those that fly invariably pay more and are sensitive to the cost of flying from Philly to NY

so me and u start discussing how people that fly in america,do various things to get their cost of flying down(maybe shop around use expedia, Priceline etc)
and u tell me that because lots of other ppl drive or use the train(which is cheaper),it doesnt matter what ppl that fly do to reduce the cost of flying

the analogy above is exactly what u have done. . .it doesnt make any sense u citing gas in a discussion of electricity usage by consumers
yes some ppl use gas,some use oil to warm their homes, hell some even use firewood and chill by the chimney

but for those that use electricity(electric heaters), your bill can balloon from $120 to $450 or more in a month
I know cause thats what i use, and i like most people do all i can to cut down on that use, thats the point

hope u get it and stop trying to mix up issues.

Wrong analogy. What you did is similar to you saying that the cost of transport in America is high because the amount people in Philadelphia spend on flights is high, when in truth most of Americans travel by road.
The people that use electric heaters are in the minority (compared to those that dont) and thus you cannot use the effect of it on their electric bill as a representation for the average consumer.

another meaningless rant,
can u pls for the sake of others reading this thread tell us what exactly u propose to do with the hopeless power situation
what exactly is your solution, that would be helpful

cause from where i see it, it seems u want the status quo to remain and more money to be wasted
u talk of transmission,distribution and so on, can u explain to us how a budget of $1billion dollars(2010) for the power sector can achieve
production, talkless of transmission and upgrades of the useless grid?see link below. . . .
http://www.businessdayonline.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=9587:fears-of-inflationary-pressure-as-nassembly-tops-2010-budget-by-n500bn&catid=1:latest-news&Itemid=18

Dude what exactly is your solution to the crises?
How are we to grow annually by 7% like Sanusi likes to claim, without an investment of more than $10billion/yr in the power sector?
How do u sustain huge industrial and Mining concerns like Gold and A luminium smelting and Ajaokuta Steel,and build new ones
without a compuond growth in the installed and generating capacity of the country
Pray who will give that money to the Nigerian Govt?

Our annual budget for 2010 is about 4.6Trillion, $30billion dollars
whearas everyone has acknowledged we need investments of $10billion a yr to catch up to even south africa in the power sector

South Africa just annouced it will spend $11billion in new power plants and upgrades in the next 2yrs or so,

Mr Biiina, where will PHCN get that kind of money from?
who will lend to PHCN in its current form, with corruption and political intereferance running rampant?

So kindly please tell us how u will solve the power crises in Nigeria without deregulating the sector and letting other players that are credit worthy to come in source for funds and build and own their own power stations,distribution lines and so on,with the ability to serve a dedicated or general outfit
cheers

Go and read up on the steps being taken already before criticizing.

A suggested starting point http://power.cpcstrans.com/files/IndustryStructure.pdf
From there, you can look for other documents to make yourself better informed.

When you have a clear understanding of the status quo and the directions things are moving, only then can you come and criticize things.

Beaf:
It is surely as "effective" and moral as chopping off hands as punishment for petty theft. . . And since when did the CBN become a debt collection agency? (I am beginning to feel you are as useless as Sanusi as far as such matters are concerned).
I asked you a very simple question which you you obviously can't answer. Please answer this question or quit, I don't have the time for any brainless discussion;
"Where in the whole World (including Sudan), have you seen bank clients names and account details published in the press by the Central Bank? Where?"

Every country is free to solve their problems however they deem fit. If you dont like the solution, and cannot offer credible alternatives,then feel free to emigrate to a country where the debtors are given national medals
Thanks to publishing the lists, over N100 billion has been recovered. If its legal and effective, its of little relevance whether Nigeria is the first or last country to do so, or must we always copy someone else?

Nigerians and illegality. Person owe money, no wan pay, u come dey complain of newspaper advert. You are more concerned about the non-paying debtors than the bank staff that are losing their jobs because those debtor refuse to pay up.

Anybody wey no wan see im name for newspaper, make im go service im loan. shikena!

In Yoruba
North = Ariwa
South = Guusu
East = Ilaorun
West = Iwoorun

paddy_lo:
have u heard of US postal service and FEDEX?

Fanny mae,Freddy Mac?, the list is endless,Nigerian Govt can keep its bumbling PHCN but it must open up the door for other private players

Privatization means the divestiture of government interest . There is no government ownership in a fully privatized sector. The postal service is not privatized.

This is bullshit, Govt still sets the price of power below the commercial cost of production,the so called IPPS cannot own transmission lines,
who are u fooling, is it not the same approval of licenses that was given to private refineries also,
well where are the refineries?, u dont have any because govt still controls the price of petrol too, I wonder why u have to insist on turning capitalism on its head
only in Nigeriathat model has failed woefully in Nigeria and its about time u stopped defending it, it cannot and should not work
also Nigeria is too big in both landmass and population for it to

The IPPs cannot own transmission lines because Nigeria has only one National grid, and please read up about grids before commenting on possibility of multiple 'grid'
Since you claim that Nigeria's tariffs are set under the cost of production, can you then provide the cost of production to IPPs in Nigeria and how much the PHCN is paying them?
Its funny that you claim I am defending something when my posts have not said anything about my opinion of the current state of affairs, but then you are free to believe what will let you sleep at night.

yes they are
whatever tarrif set by the regulators are set at x times the cost of production of power, not below the cost of producing power
and i just showed u AEP which is a utility company that is profit driven,that pays dividends and is listed on the exchange
unless u are telling me there are companies with shareholders in america,who pay dividends but are not driven to make profits

It obvious you dont know the difference between public owned and public traded entities. AEP is a public traded company, and not a public owned utility. So, No, public owned utilities are not profit driven.

I am well informed, u are however sadly making the same mistake everyone makes
Shell and Agip should be allowed to own transmission lines and charge for power directly to consumers

No they cannot and do not need to. IPPs are Independent Power generators.

the National grid is a joke and a relic of the 1960s and u know it, sometimes more power is lost in transmission than is actually supplied to end users, so who are we fooling?, National grid my foot

The poor state of the national grid in no way changes the need for a government owned national grid.  Otherwise, why not advocate for a privately owned police force or legislature
If you dont know the pros and cons of having a national grid (as opposed to not having one), then don't comment on it. You can go and read up on the California electricity crisis of 2000-01.

If this is true, then why is lagos state switching from generators and PHCN to Oando IPP for its Akute water plant(saving millions of Naira in the process)
u are effectively saying there is no difference btw private sector competion,and an innefficient generator, this is BS even though we are still talking hypothetically

it is because it is cheaper that they are switching to OandO, and Oand O can afford to increase their prices close to generator costs. So you cannot use generators as an effective competitor to IPPs like you claimed.

Lol, u do know how to hide your inadequacies with ad-hominem attacks, ha ha

listen, u were the one stating false consumer patterns for the USA, not me, our exchange is replicated belowu foolishly claim that ppl over here are decieved into using less electricity, what an incredible statement to make
and now u attack me cause i choose to set u straight on your silly remark u made above

Some basics: Power generation for the most part is constant through the day, which means my capacity must meet my peak demand. Industrial and commercial loads peak during the day, while residential loads peak in the morning and at night. Industrial and commercial rates are much higher and thus they are the primary targets, and I want the residential load to simply match the available capacity. Increase beyond the available capacity (dictated by peak industrial and commercial load) will result in increased MC that cannot be met with the residential tariffs and will reduce the profit margins. Hence residential customer are advised to reduce their loads to  'save' money.  So its not really the residential customers choice to make.

If you still dont get it after this, then feel free to believe whatever lets you sleep at night.

what does the source of heating have to do with anything, lol
again we are talking of electricity usage patterns among consumers, and u bring gas into the discussion
people that use electric to warm or cool their houses are very mindful of saving money on bills, thats the point
dont try to change the subject

You made reference to it as indicative of electricity consumption and bill, and I simply pointed out that it was atypical and thus cannot be cited as a ref.

AEP still generates more that 10 times Nigerias current output
rolling out meaningless stats will not help u,

The production capacity of AEP should be taken in context of the total capacity of the US. You cannot ask for increased generation without any consideration for transmission, distribution, consumption and revenue. That AEP's capacity exceeds Nigeria's demand , is not an argument for having a IPP dominated power generation sector. Even the US does not.

Beaf:
Where in the whole World (including Sudan) have you seen bank clients names and account details published in the press by the Central Bank? Where?
Sanusi is just a bush man that can't tell left from right outside the sharia World.

Feel free to criticize the approach but you cant deny its effectiveness.
If you have a better approach that will also be effective in the recovery of the bad loans, please suggest it, but dont misrepresent the facts as if the people on the list are some loyal customers being victimized.

Beaf:
I pity Sanusi, he is just a confused bush man floundering in a league way above his marabout talents (for which he obtained a degree in Khartoum, Sudan). Shame!
In Nigeria, it is a crime to owe money. What a pity!

Nope but its wrong to not service your debt.

RoadStar:
Really !
I thought it was a bailout !
Have the bailout sum been converted to majority stakes ?
Are the appointed MDs working for the banks or for CBN ?

Can someone help me with answers pleeease !

I did not say they were owned by the CBN (which is what owning majority stakes imply). The current executives were appointed by the CBN which puts the bank under the control of the CBN otherwise who is in control of the banks? More evidence is that the CBN requested that the shareholders cooperate with the interim management i.e. the shareholders are not in charge.
The CBN has injected funds into the banks, and it is only reasonable they help the banks back to profitability.

paddy_lo:
Most advanced or developed countries in the world have privatized/commercialized the utility sector, that is from production to transmission(although they are well regulated usually for reasons of environmental harzard), u dont arbitrarilly set the price charged for power below the cost of production, it is not done in any sane society in the world

You failed to provide an example. For instance the US electricity sector is not fully privatized.

i say Govt should retain its PHCN and fund it as it pleases
my reason for saying this is that people like u will always cry about the inability of the poor northerner to be able to buy power
so let govt keep throwing money at PHCN if it wishes,but let it license private sector power utilities

There is nothing like government participation in a privatized sector.

if u agree that Govt alone should not build power plants,then explain to me how the private sector can come in without total liberalization like i suggest

There is a difference between privatization and liberalization. The Nigerian power sector has been liberalized since 1999 with approval of licenses to several IPPs.

there may be more public owned utility,but it is a relic of the past,

No.

the new big ticket items like wind farms by tboone pickens in houston and solar plants are private sector funded and financed,
and there is no one NEPA that handles power in america,

US is not the same size or structure as Nigeria. There are other countries like malaysia that have single, public owned, transmission and distribution network

the public utilities are usually localized and profit driven, there is no federal agency setting electricity prices for the whole nation
your idea of command and control economy will never work, i dont care how much is set aside for IPPs by Sanusi, its a drop in the ocean,

The public utilities are not profit driven. The distribution tariffs are set by the relevant PUC while the wholesale tariffs are set by the FERC. It is not a free market system.

The same problem bedevilling the petrolem sector is bedevilling the power sector

Two different sectors faced with two different problems.

govt control of prices, inability of firms to tap international and local financemodel of Public- Private owned utilities just like in the USA, like i said earlier, let the PHCN and even state Governors form their own utility companies
but let there be private licences given out, from production to end transmission

You are obviously uninformed about the state of the power sector in Nigeria. There have been several IPPs licenses granted since 1999, and the like s of shell and Agip are already generating onto the national grid

If u charge more like u claim, then u will finally run yourself out of business as consumers will finally shut off and return to generators if u insist on gouging them
therefore,the flexibility of demand is very relevant

There is no effective competition in the power sector. Your location determines who your supplier is. The cost to run a generator for minimal period is high enough to give a good margin for gouging (u can do the math if you are still in doubt)

I can see u have never lived over here but spout off to me what i experience daily, perhaps that is what u read on the Newspapers or internet
so now all americans are very rich to live lights on 24hrs, use the heater 24hrs in winter,AC 24hrs in summer and so on, because electric bills dont matter?

u should come spend a winter here, and see what my electric bill is from using the heater,even after turning it low and using as little as possible
everyone is served better if there is an economic incentive to using resources efficiently, that is ECN 101

It seems its u who dont know anything about anything. . . .u are busy defending a failed system in Nigeria,whearas the rest of the world keeps moving on
u now claim my post is unrelated to yours,lol,

u defended the staus quo and wonder how private companies or IPPs will recoup investments in power
I however had to school u that such companies usually get long term funding from debt or equity
but for that to work the sector has to be completely liberalized,to have a workable business plan

If u are irritated by my sound policy suggestions,perhaps its because u benefit somehow from the broken system

Living in the US is not a requisite for a sound argument, nor does it give you sole proprietorship of knowledge about the US energy sector.  It is obvious you know nothing about the power sector in Nigeria and are in no position to proffer solutions. FYI the predominant source of heating in the US is gas and not electricity.

As to your reference to AEP:
In the US, investor owned utilities represent 6 percent of the total number of electric utilities, approximately 38% of utility installed capacity and 42% of generation.  Total capacity of the US in 2007 was 1,088 Gigawatt. AEP generates less than 4%.

Above are just a few reference for you to think over. There is too much nonsense in your post, and I have little time to waste on someone who cannot do his homework before posting.

mikeansy:
Ridiculous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CBN now a debt collection agency.

All in the name of risk management.

The affected banks are under the interim control of the CBN, and while the CBN have made the publications, there is nothing to suggest that any CBN official is directly involved in the collection.
You are free to suggest an effective alternative.

Gray Beard:
Sickening, the Sanusi-fraud-mania.

When will peeps realize that this Sanusi fellow is a danger to the Nigerian Economy?

So you prefer the average bank worker losing his job because a defaulter living in opulence refuses to pay up on his debts

paddy_lo:
@binna

u surprise me with your post, i thought u were a capitalist. . . . .

I am not a capitalist nor a socialist. I believe in a mixed economy in which the choice is chosen to achieve the best result and not based son ome non-existent underlying superiority.

Anyway,everything u write is wrong from Top to Bottom. . . .

This is to be seen, but I doubt it

Govt should privatize the energy and power sector, all the way,from production to end transmission
the tarriffs should also be totally liberalized, that means the Power company can charge whatever they want

privatized energy sector? liberalized tariffs? Could you please provide one example of where this has been done successfully? Seems you dont know what you are talking about.

However PHCN should still be funded by the Govt but given a commercial mandate,
that is they should break even yearly
and Govt can set whatever cheap rate they want for PHCN

Government funding in privatized sector? 
Seems you do not know the difference between privatization, liberalization, and autonomy, talk less of understanding the power sector.

If u accept that power plants are capital intensive to build,i wonder why u feel govt is best suited to build it,

At no point did i say government should exclusively build power plants. My post was directed at a comment on the time frame to recoup investments. English comprehension is not as difficult as you make it seem.

The private utility companies here in the states are usually listed on the stock exchange
which means they can raise money easily through debt or equity
and can plan long term 10-20yrs, easilly without stress

and yet there are over 2000 public owned utilities in the US as compared to the 200+ privately owned ones.
More importantly, you failed to list the sources of long term funding at favorable rates that are available to IPPs in Nigeria

If such a hybrid model exists in Nigeria it will, it will also help to nudge the monopolistic PHCN to better practises

which hybrid model?

as for your fear of inability of Nigerians to afford the power,
i suggest to u that Nigerians will rather prefer to have 24hrs power of which they choose to tap 3,4,6,10hrs a day or whatever they can afford
than not to have any power or erratic supply at all,

The choice to tap on demand  is irrelevant as tarrifs will be adjusted to generate the target revenue. If you consume less, I will simply charge more, as I cannot store the excess capacity.

u do know that even over here ppl still turn off the lights and so on to save on power bills
thats what we need in Nigeria, a true economic incentive to both produce and consume efficiently

That is encouraged by the utilities to reduce demand, under the guise of reducing cost to the customer.

Your post is in no way related to what i said earlier, and it simply showed that you know little to nothing about the power sector. People like you irritate me, as you are quick to spout nonsense on issues under the self delusion that you know what you do not know. I doubt your expertise is in the power sector, and I would advice you read up on relevant topics before arrogantly jumping into threads like this.

naijaking1:
I didn't see anything about these loans being bad or defaulted.
Why do we have to criminalize borrowing money? Did these banks submit the names to CBN as debts they can't collect? Why the big deal about owing banks for goodness-sake?
In the US for example, businesses buy these "bad debts" manage it and live off its interest for the rest of their life! Also lending money to business men is good, because it creats jobs in most part. Why does Dangote have to go borrow money from South Africa when that amount can be resourced here at home. The interest would probably creat jobs in SA and not in Nigeria. Borrowing money from banks should not be a crime, but business, and borrowers must be made to honor the terms of their contract.

Seems you like twisting the truth.
Its a list of defaulted/non-perfroming loans i.e. the banks have failed to collect on them as at when due, or should people not repay their loans anymore simply because they own a business?
It is misinformation to say they are criminalizing borrowing, when all they are try to do is hold people up to their obligations.
You might not like the approach (particularly if you are a 'wealthy' loan defaulter), but no one can deny its effectiveness.

edoyad:
Call me ignorant but is it alright to publish name of debtors to the public ? Isn't it supposed to be confidential or something ?

Nope. Particularly when you are in default.
Even in the US, collection agencies have been reported to call up peoples neighbors if you dont respond to their calls.

marvix:
Quote from biina

But I dont get how GJ succeeding in 2011 ensures no power outages at the end of 2010 


GJ can only xpect to win 2011 elections based on his performance, and if he clinches d PDP ticket he wld fast track all projects in d power sector, but if he makes up his mind not to contest he wld just go the way of Abdulsalami Abubakar and fill his pockets so that once he is gone he wouldn't be looking for anything in Aso Rock.

Then your earlier post had your argument reversed. Its seems you are saying that providing uninterrupted power supply will help Jonathan in his bid to replace Yar'adua, and not that his winning the elections in 2011 will guarantee us power in 2010 (which is what your earlier post meant)

marvix:
Quote from biina
Note: FYI the average electricity bill per household in the US is $100 (i.e.N150K) and those are for long term projections to break even. Can you afford,forget about being willing, to pay over N500K per month to help the IPPs break even in less than 5yrs?

$100 is not 150k but 15k that is supposed to be per month and govt can instead subsidise this for residential and small busines purposes, deregulate the downstream oil sector and increse min wage to 50k per month and all this can be funded we hav money in the excess crude acc that can take care of this.

Thanks for the correction. Seems I devalued the Nairato 1500:1 

But I personally asure u that if GJ continues with Yaraduas masterplan and he succeds him in 2011 by the end of this year power outages would be alien to us.

But I dont get how GJ succeeding in 2011 ensures no power outages at the end of 2010 

ElRazur:
Please explain as to why it should not be a bench mark? Is the same banking rules - Islamic banking - not applicable to the one in Nigeria? After all, they are based on the same principles? No?

If that won't do. Please have a read over here - at least it acknowleges there are issues and far from perfect. [like some muslims will have us believe]

http://www.siddiqi.com/mns/Lecture3.htm

http://www.sbp.org.pk/departments/ibd/Lecture_8_Related_Reading_1.pdf

The bangladesh case, like the other links you provided, will not do cos they address issues facing the islamic banks, and not problems caused/posed by Islamic banking. Please read the contents before posting the links.

On the dubai issue, the article you linked to does not in anyway point to Islamic banking being the cause of the dubai crisis. Rather the article was expounding on the challenges facing the legal structure as the traditional banking (from the creditor i.e. depositors and bond holder point of views) clashes with Islamic banking principles ( from the debtor and islamic bank point of view). The article specifically notes that only 10% of the dubai debt were sharia compliant. Again try to read the content before posting the link.

More importantly, would be for you to leave your opinion of Islam, or Muslims out of the issue. You can make your argument without attacking the religion of others. Your earlier posts are indicative of religious bigotry and intolerance.

ElRazur:
Here is a deep read on where Islamic banking is flawed.



Heck here is the link if anyone wants to read more, but it will require a registration [those with a facebook account can use it to get it for free]

http://www.scribd.com/doc/12878941/Issues-and-Problems-of-Islamic-Banking

Problems with Islamic banks operating in Bangladesh is the basis of your argument against islamic banking? What makes bangladesh banks the reference model?
why not similarly use the problems with Nigerian banks as a reference for problems with banking?

netotse:
i'm starting to suspect you o. . .fess up, you have something to do with the power sector!

Nah! nothing like that. You on the other hand have pleaded guilty, and have been found guilty as charged. 

BTW some people like Naijaking1 think I work for the CBN.

jay bee:
^^^
you don finish with the yabs?
OK thnx for skooling me. I might as well return all me certificates 

I apologize for the rant. Your post just caught me in a bad mood. Will try and edit out some of the more abrasive refs.

FL Gators:


I tried, so what is it?

@post
Cornered
Divide

Its more along the 'raincoat' lines

Condom in Yoruba is Agbejofaaji ( Agbe ojo faaji)
lit trans: collector for (or shelter from) the 'rain' of bliss

jay bee:
They can recoup investments and even turn profitable way lesser than your forecasted no yrs.
They just need to go by the pay as you use model (Key charging meter)

Yes they can recoup their money quickly, if you are ready to sell your house or business to pay for the electricity (though I wonder wetin you go take the electricity do afterward)

You made an assertion without any figures to back it up e.g.
1. what is the capital cost to build the station of a specific capacity
2. what is the running cost (fuel, O&M etc) to generate at that capacity 
3. what are the transmission, distribution , O&M, and revenue collection cost for the delivery
4. What is the interest rate on the bank facility (The graph of a compounded interest loan grows exponentially)
It is when you have these and other relevant figures that you can start talking about when it is possible to break even. 

This has less to do with a 'pay as you use' model as that simply addresses the problem of revenue collection, an issue that is less associated with industrial and commercial customers who generate the bulk of the revenue.

Note: FYI the average electricity bill per household in the US is $100 (i.e.N15K) and those are for long term projections to break even. Can you afford,forget about being willing, to pay over N50K per month to help the IPPs break even in less than 5yrs?

Edited to be less abrasive 

mikeansy:
You have a history of not admitting it even when you are wrong and I am not really concerned that you deny the truth, neither am I interested in engaging you in a ping-pong debate because it is a waste of everybody's time.

In all the court papers both in cases instituted by EFCC or the Bank CEOs; you will find that the CBN are either Joint Defendants or Witness.
Sanusi as the current Governor is the face of CBN. When the CBN are party to a suit he should not pre-empt the court process by demonizing the accused in the Media. That is called contempt of Court process

If you cant simply understand this then unfortunately you may be living in Robert Mugabe's Zimbabwe or Fidel Castros Cuba. Our Justice system in Nigeria is not up to scratch but sometimes we still pretend to understand the meaning of rule of law and I guess thats what the Judge was saying.

Could you please provide these court papers? Particularly the ones where the CBN are witnesses before the trial starts
The suits brought against the CBN (where they are defendants) are civil suits and not criminal, and thus guilty or innocence do not apply.
You have failed to show how Sanusi's action biases the judges, who are responsible for the fairness of the trial.
The judge made a comment against parading suspects in public. The CBN never did.
PS. please be clear on the meaning 'parading suspects in the media' before quoting some extraneous materials like Sanusi saying they deserve to be shot.

You could not come up with a sound argument and/or evidence in support of your earlier claims and have simply resorted to personal comments. Disagreeing with you or anyone else does not equate to me being right or wrong. If we are to go by history, you are the one who has an history of making false statements in desperate bids to paint Sanusi negatively e.g. you recently claimed that Sanusi made a new policy to remove non-executive directors after 12 years, when in truth the policy was introduced by Soludo. I doubt you had the dignity (like Roadster showed) to admit you were wrong. So dont be hypocritical and start insinuating other dont accept it when they a re wrong. You have no idea of the concept.

In good time all we be settled, as the defendant will get their day in court.

naijaking1:
Still want to know how Sanusi is involved
Once again, unlike you, many people don't have the benefit of a cozy CBN propaganda office, but the moronic street performances of Sanusi since he assumed office are well documented. Only in Nigeria will such an officer have paid agents trolling the news and internet media repeating, clarifying, and sometimes denying what their boss has said, only to score cheap political points.

LWKMD. You have concluded that I am a CBN official simply because i approve of Sanusi's action.
All the articles you posted have not shown that the judges will be biased against the defendants as you and others are alleging, nor has their been any evidence that the statements are false.
The senator will not be trying the case, and if she is innocent she cn sue sanusi and/or the CBN for defamation.

mikeansy:
Are people now saying they don't understand the importance of not commenting in the media on a court case you are party to?

How much common sense will we destroy to justify the unjustifiable.

Sanusi should get civilised!!!!

How is Sanusi involved? Is he the prosecutor, defendant, or judge?
Explain how Sanusi's comments affect the fairness of the trial, which is determined by the presiding judge.
The executives and their lawyers that have made comments in their defence should also have kept quiet abi? after all they are the defendant and are clearly party to the case.