From the constitution, Part IV - Interpretation, Citation and commencement

318(1) "belong to" or its grammatical expression when used with reference to a person in a state refers to a person either or whose parents or any of whose grand parents was a member of a community indigenous to that state;

@Ioma
Could you please stop the piecemeal 'echoing'. A single link to the source would suffice, and not you regurgitating small parts without any reference to the original source.
If you want to start a thread on NLI feel free to do so, but dont swarm the current thread with less relevant info.

EzeUche:

Is he not Yoruba? These people should hush. I have no problem with this man being put in charge of this. He has the best credentials. There is no pleasing some people. Even if the person is from your ethnic group, people still get angry.

So all yorubas belong to one state?
Please try to comprehend the issues before commenting, and if you cannot, keep your hands off the keyboard.

Moyola:

Ejowo! Idiom {iso oro} yato sii Proverb {owe} beeni abi beeko?

beeni.

Asoro iyanro ni o pa elenpe isaju ti o ni igba wuwo ju awo lo
Lit Trans: Making an unqualified statement is what killed the Elenpe I (a Nupe king) when he said the calabash is heavier than a (bone) dish.
meaning: Choose your words carefully so as not to be misunderstood/misrepresented

Note: The background is that the king was tricked by one of his chiefs into a test of wisdom in which if the king failed, he would have to commit suicide. The devious chief posed a trick question: Which is heavier, a calabash or a dish? The trick being that a fresh calabash is heavier than a dish while a dried calabash is lighter than a dish. The unsuspecting king (thinking of a fresh calabash) answered that the calabash was heavier, but then chief claimed his reference was to a dried calabash making the king's answer wrong. Thus the king had to end his own life.

Pansa o fura, pansa ja! Aja of fura, aja jin! onile ti o ba fura, ole ni oko
Lit Trans: The dried calabash was careless hence it was plucked! The attic/rafters was careless hence it caved in! The head of the household that is not careful will be cleaned out by thieves.
Meaning:You need to be careful/attentive ot to fall into ruin.

Idowuogbo:

ojo to ro lo pe eye le ati adiye papo
(na condtion make crayfish bend)lol
some circumstances brings a clash of persona

ojo to ro lo ko eye-ile ati adiye papo
Lit Trans: It is the rain that makes the pigeon share abode with the hen/chicken.
Uncontrollable circumstances makes one bear some (lesser) company you would rather not keep.
Its often used in a derogatory tone.

illusion2:

I think we should leave Islam out of this but the post below is the most ridiculous excuse I've heard for banging a 9 year old  

Its not about whether it is right to marry a 9yr old or not, but that the issue wasnt specific to Muhammad. It was representative of the society he lived in. You cannot classify him a pedophile if the society he lived in approved of his actions.

ElRazur:

Again, are you saying the founder of Islam do not know the difference between a child and a grown up? Or better still a sexually immature female and a sexually mature woman?  

seems you have nothing more to say than the above.
I have little time to spend with someone that simply intolerant of another religion.

ElRazur:

You mean you dismissed evidence when you lack anything to go up against it?

Nice.

Unsurprising that you couldn't reproduce a non-existent evidence (after all you only had to copy and paste from the link provided if there was anything to copy)

ElRazur:

Once again you removed intelligence away from the founder of Islam. Clearly, you are saying he do not know the difference between a child and a woman?

By the standards of the time, she was qualified for marriage (and had been betrothed earlier to someone else before Muhammad).
The definition of a minor in the US is 18 while in Japan it is 20. So people in the US are pedophiles for having sex with 19yr olds?
You cannot describe as pedophilia, marrying someone that is deemed of marriage age in the society of interest

ElRazur:

Give me a break. If I dismissed every evidence presented in a debate, then refuse to debate or comment further when pinned down in a corner.     .    .    .    I guess I will post something similar to what you just posted.  

If the evidence presented are irrelevant, then they should be dismissed.
If my recollection is inaccurate, please feel free to post the correct version (with the relevant evidence you provided back then).
If memory fails you, here is a link to the thread in question https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-286267.0.html

ElRazur:

Here we go again.

Every society knows what a child is and what a child is capable of doing. I suppose you are taking away intelligence from the founder of Islam, that he clearly do not know the difference between a fcukable woman and a sexually immature female?

Joke is on you too.

and so there is a universally accepted age for a minor that has been existent since the beginning of time?
Again you have extrapolated that he had penetrative sex with the wife at an early age.

ElRazur:

Actually no. Thanks for putting a twist on the tale.

My argument if memory serves me right is that He married and shagged a minor. Something you denied. My arguments was he fought in wars and as such can not be a role model for peace or something along those lines. Something you refuse to acknowledge.

As it stand, you have shown a change in direction as per his marriage and act with a minor. That one na the koko of this point.

Nope. Seems you missed the part about the definition of a minor 
Simple question: in the Bedouin society of Muhammads's time, was Aisha considered a minor?

BTW your claim in the prior discussion was that 'Violence was the bedrock of Islam' but you failed to provide any Koranic verse (the universally accepted reference for Islam) to support it. Rather you wanted o extrapolate from the actions of Muhammad, but would not accept similar extrapolation for Christianity based on the actions of peter (i.e. Peter escaped from prison mean that prison break is the bedrock of Christianity ).

ElRazur:

Dude are you high? You once had a lengthy debate with me that this never happened. What's up with the change of tune?

My position has not  changed. IIRC, you claimed the quran preached pedophilia, but the discussion of Muhammad's marriage to Aisha are in the hadith (not the quran). More so the definition of a minor is societal dependent. The act was a reflection of their culture and not of his teachings (which is what you often try to extrapolate to).

ElRazur:

Attempt have been made to make illegal the marriage of under 18s - off recent - but Muslims cleric up in the north argues if mohammed can marry a minor, it is good enough for them. How do you deal with that?

Are the Muslim clerics the majority in the legislature?
If the bulk of the legislators are pedophiles (or supporters), then that is the problem you need to address.

The act wasn't peculiar to Muhammad and was typical of the Bedouin arab society of then. Before being betrothed to Muhammad at six, Aisha had been betrothed to another but when asked to solemnize ( ) the marriage, the fiance backed out since her father had become a Muslim.

The issue is a societal problem and not a religious one. The Egyptians are predominantly Muslims but their laws do not support the union.

The core problem is that the Nigerian law permits it. Simply change the law and it becomes illegal. shikena!

RoadStar:

@biina
I am getting a bit confused by all this words.
Let us summarise this.
CBN forcefully took over these banks from the shareholders because they were under capitalised ,insolvent and mismanaged.
The CBNs justification is that the banks owe money to the CBN and until the money is refunded, the CBN will continue to run the banks.

The first part is the reason the CBN intervened. The debts was not the justification. That they owe money to the CBN is a secondary issue. Part of the CBN debt came from the EDW and the other from the injected funds.

Are the appointed MDs answerable to the CBN ,the shareholders or are they independent ?
If they are anserable to the CBN, can we assume that for now, the CBN has assumed the role of the regulator and the regulated?

The appointed executives are independent within the broad directives given by the CBN to turnaround the banks. I see it as just being more direct, as all the bank executives in the sector are ultimately answerable to the CBN. The CBN does not own the banks, so I dont see how the CBN has become both regulator and regulated.

Where can you categorise the affected banks.
Bailed-out - Helped/Injected with capital or funds to be repaid later (Maybe with interest as in the case in US and UK).
Taken Over - Injected funds converted funds preference shares with CBN controling a majority stake and proportionate major boardroom powers.
Nationalised - Seized by CBN, to be resourcetated and then re-sold. All assets and liabilities are owned by CBN.
Liquidated - Administration (sell of the bank assets and compensate depositors). Withdraw their licences.
Other - Explain (within rational limits)

Bailed out with a pseudo takeover. It is not ideal, but that is the best that can be done under the existing framework. The CBN cannot buy majority shares, so has injected tier-2 capital in form of a subordinated debt.

In a modern world you should be doing things within ethical/legal means .
This is the reason sanusi is being treated with a lot of suspision.
Because even if he claims to be doing the right thing, his methods lack any ethical or rational foundation.

I dont see the ethical or legal issues. The CBN is trying to protect depositors and shareholders interest.

While Sanusi had the right to fire the erring bank executives and appointing new MDs.
There is no where in the BOFIA act(I am not a fan ) or constitution which empowers the CBN to take over or run banks
Sanusi is well aware of this hence his application in February this year to the house of assembly.

It also demanded powers to acquire the shares of an ailing  bank up to a level that guarantees the apex bank’s control  and management provided  that the CBN shall  at the earliest  opportunity dispose  of such acquired shares  when it is satisfied that the state  of affairs of the bank concerned has improved.
http://www.proshareng.com/news/singleNews.php?id=9146

The CBN does not own the banks. The actions of the CBN are supported by section 33 of the BOFIA. Having the ability to buy majority shares simply enables the CBN to easily restructure the non-executive side of things. I am personally not really in support of this (cos of the subjective time frame), as I dont want bank executives being political appointees like we had in the 1980s under the 'golden shares'.

Please note that the issue of control is not black and white but more of hierarchy and level of autonomy.

Home schooled with street smarts

PapaBrowne:

Maybe EFCC would be good for him. But just not CBN.
The guy is a destroyer and all he has done is batter the Nigerian economy!

Anything to get him out of CBN is good.

Still waiting for your prophecy of Sanusi's resignation in 3 months to come true. One and a half month don pass already, and there is no sign of the reforms slowing down.
In fact the house of reps recently passed the AMC bill, and the senate and reps banking committee have stated their support.

Want to retract your prophecy?

naijaking1:

I take it that you've just landed from outer space that you don't know about the goverment direct not to "mess" with it's agents?
Well, just in case your space ship has just landed, or you've suffered a cerebrovascular accident that wiped off your memory, or you just want to retort "prove it" like you usually do, here is a link to one of our previous discussions on this issue.

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-343242.0.html


Enjoy, and report back later.

Typical misrepresentation.
1. How does fuel marketers owing the banks , due to non payment by the government, equate to the govt owing the banks? Are fuel marketers now government agencies?
2. All you have is an article claiming a directive from the FG with a nameless source.
3. Yet the article said action was halted against them, not that their names were removed from the list.
4. From the article:
However, Mr. Billy Agha, acting director, Department of Petroleum Resources (DPR) said names of all petroleum marketers being owed subsidy arrears by the PPPRA have been removed from the list of debtors being investigated by the EFCC.
is removal from EFCC list now the same as removal from the CBN list?

Again it has been shown that you are simply making false claims.

naijaking1:

The greatest fraud of all times is not publishing how much the greatest debtor to these banks owe in comparison to individuals and companies.
And who is the greatest debtor? The government and its agencies.
An honest analysis of all the bad debts in bank XYZ would have been to start from the highest debtor to the smallest, not pick and chose.

Any proof?
Simply provide reference for the non-performing loan owed by the government to any of the banks that makes them the greatest debtors. Again feel free to pick any bank of your choice.

naijaking1:

Lie, Lie, liar
The interim executives are working for whomsoever appointed them-----Sanusi's CBN.
The shareholders, depositors and owners of these banks have no say, not a word about how these banks are currently run. Many of these executives were recruited with the sole purpose of selling off the banks, not to return them to core investors.
At least, you should try to be truthful to the many public statements of your paymaster over the past 9 months.

If the sole intention was to sell the banks, they wouldn't bother recovering the debts, and would have simply let them be seized by the NDIC and put up for sale. Infact it is would have been easier for the CBN to simply inject the funds as tier 1 capital, and in turn sell that investment to the target party.

There is nothing to support your allegations of 'sole purpose'. Selling the banks, in part or whole, to new investors is simply an option that is on the table.

RoadStar:

I thought that as the former MDs were sacked for incompetence and mis-managing the banks.
I thought that the new MDs were working for the banks.
If so when will the banks be returned to the board(Become independent).

I think it is very wrong for CBN to be running a bank without nationalising them.
While sanusi might be pursuing ethical banking, this issue is ethics turned on its head.
Unexplained holes makes sanusis reform to lack credibility.

There is something totally wrong with this approach .

The interim executives are working to protect the interests of the bank, which includes the shareholders and depositors. The banks will be back under the control of the shareholders once the CBN funds are refunded and the banks are adequately capitalized. With AMC almost ready to buy most of the toxic assests, hopefully that should happen before the end of the year. The more debts recovered, the less injection of capital are required by the banks, and the faster the shareholders can regain their banks.

Do you really 'own' the house when their is a mortgage lien on it?

marvix:

@oyb, l didnt say that all civil servants are bad, just like not all our leaders are bad so when i gave an overview of what a majority of civil servants are, he took it personal and involved his parents.

My arguements were not countered by him if you will try going through our previous posts , you will see that he just took one of my comments and brought it out of context and wanted to show off, and thank you for concuring with me in saying that the NEPA staff are part of the problem and that was what i was trying to say before the young man came up trying to show off his NYSC experience and the truth be said i dont like it when people dont want to see anything good in what others are doing and trying to make everyone look bad.

If his dad was Babalola would he like the comments he made about him to be made about his dad?

A simple apology would have sufficed. Your reference to his parents were uncalled for.

The pricing is less of a concern if they can deliver the service. The incumbent tariffs are unsustainable without heavy govt subsidies, money that should be invested in improving the infrastructure.
Every party, from generation plants to the consumer, need to do their part. We need the government to accelerate the reforms in the sector, so that people can get what they are paying for.

paddy_lo:

In other words u have no clue as to what needs to be done
except keep doing what we have been doing for the last 20yrs
Keep pouring money into a black hole, and expect a different outcome

Its people like u that have connived to keep Nigeria Backwards for generations
Am sure u would have also wanted Govt to keep spending Money on NITEL and MTEL
so that some silly politician will eat all the money and provide us with useless Nought Nine Nought(090)

Ten yrs ago even though NITEL had the whole Nigerian market to themselves a virtual monopoly
they could not even provide more than 2million mobile lines
but we know where we are today,with GSM companies that have invested more than $18bILLION in the sector since 2001

For u to keep arguing for a Govt run power sector in nigeria
is to act like u just came down from the moon
We are one of the most corrupt nations in the world
The Power sector is one of the most Capital intensive in the world

it doesnt take a brain surgeon to see that there is ample room for corrupt practices to flourish
Most Economists dont say deregulate for the sake of deregulation
they know it reduces corrupt practices,while significantly improving the lives of the mass populace

Enjoy your blatantly corrupt and patronage fueled broken system while u can
one thing i know is,that system can never work, and Nigerians will get rid of it sooner or later

I gave you an idea of the current state of things in Nigeria, and yet you could not point out a single flaw backed up with a sound argument. Instead you keep going on about things that have little to no relation to the status quo

Its people like you who are the bane of Nigeria: semi-illiterates, who think they know what they do not know. They sit on their behinds and run their mouth claiming to be experts in areas they are clueless on. You feel what is done in the US is always the solution to the problems in Nigeria, and would have us 'import' solutions without regards for the local context or giving room for fallibility on the part of the US. That you throw around words like privatization, deregulation, and liberalization, without knowing what they mean or their effects, is just further proof that it is hopeless discussing the issues with you. Yet you deny yourself any opportunity of improving your knowledge.

That you claim Nigeria has been doing the same thing for the past 20yrs and liken the power sector to telecoms, are just further evidence of your ignorance of the issues at hand. It will be better if you leave those who know better to move Nigeria forward, and instead simply enjoy the comforts provided to you by others. I have not the time, nor the inclination, to proselytize the likes of you, and rather you be on your merry way and simply not be a dog in a manger.

The Nigerian power sector is moving in the right direction, and while the implementation has left a lot to be desired, the plan is sound enough and in line with best practices in the world (and not some myopic view from a end consumer in the US system)

paddy_lo:

The point is deregulate the sector, stop playing dumb, let private sector companies generate and distribute power,and let them own their own grid
Let Govt own and fund PHCN,if it chooses
The system will be like the FEDEX and USPS analogy i provided,

You keep making all these wrong statements. Fully deregulating the sector puts the people at the mercy of the providers. It is not done. Like I said earlier, even the US power sector is regulated by the PUCs,  FERC, DoE etc
Nigeria has already unbundled the power sector into DisCos, GenCos and TransCos, and invited private participation where suited, but you obviously dont know that and you keep harping on irrelevant points.

U keep making these statements, that defy sense,then let them go from a national grid network to a regional one,
let the law be changed that is the position thats being canvassed here by me
Let any company that wants to own a grid network own one,

No. Because having a single grid under one transmission company is the best option for Nigeria. Other countries have single grid, and even places like the US are retracing their steps by having the transmission networks interconnected, and you are suggesting we go in the opposite directions.

another of your meaningless statements, again u defend the status quo, but claim u dont,
so they should generate and dump into the useless national grid?
the grid network is failed, yet u keep holding it up as some kind of good thing
like FELA said Govt Magic, u turn blue into green, lol

Seems you dont know the purpose of having a grid. The grid is what isolates the generation from the distribution phase, and helps smoothing out demand. Without a grid, you will be over budgeted and pay excessive costs for it. Having problems doing what is right is not justification for doing what is wrong.
The IPPs have PPAs that guarantees them payment for their generation.

California electric crises, lol, i just showed u a company AEP that owns its own grid networks and generates 38,000MW of power
the fact remains that there is no one Govt owned grid in America ok?
(AEP ranks among the nation's largest generators of electricity, owning nearly 38,000 megawatts of generating capacity in the U.S. AEP also owns the nation's largest electricity transmission system, a nearly 39,000-mile network that includes more 765 kilovolt extra-high voltage transmission lines than all other U.S. transmission systems combined)

and that is why California was having power outages when nearby states had excess, but they couldnt supply california. Same happened with the NE blackout of a few years back.
Since then the US has created 2 main national grids and two smaller regional ones and all have been effectively interconnected into a single grid and here you are suggesting we break it down.

and if they increse their prices close to generators, then Lagos state govt would have defeated the purpose and can choose to stop buying from Oando
thats the whole point, u increase the price too much,then your customers bail.
unless the laws of economics dont apply in your world

The point was how far can I go? There is enough margin for OandO to gouge prices (unless you are saying paying generator rates is not price gouging). The alternative is less relevant when the point at which it kicks in is beyond reason.

Another silly,meaningless statement, i am advised to reduce my load, but its not my choice to make?
then who makes it for me?, bottom line u use more power,u pay more
there is therefore an  economic incentive to use less,
your long winding statement is just an attempt to obfuscate,

Everywhere in the world you use more of a priced commodity, you pay more, but not necessarily marginall more. The increase in MC cost is where I dissuade you from doing it. If there was no increased MC then you can claim that the choice is wholly yours. So, the choice is not fully yours to make, as I dictate the options available to you.

so lets get this straight, heres an analogy for u,
Most people take the train or bus From Philadelphia to NewYork city
However some people fly
Those that fly invariably pay more and are sensitive to the cost of flying from Philly to NY

so me and u start discussing how people that fly in america,do various things to get their cost of flying down(maybe shop around use expedia, Priceline etc)
and u tell me that because lots of other ppl drive or use the train(which is cheaper),it doesnt matter what ppl that fly do to reduce the cost of flying

the analogy above is exactly what u have done. . .it doesnt make any sense u citing gas in a discussion of electricity usage by consumers
yes some ppl use gas,some use oil to warm their homes, hell some even use firewood and chill by the chimney

but for those that use electricity(electric heaters), your bill can balloon from $120 to $450 or more in a month
I know cause thats what i use, and i like most people do all i can to cut down on that use, thats the point

hope u get it and stop trying to mix up issues.

Wrong analogy. What you did is similar to you saying that the cost of transport in America is high because the amount people in Philadelphia spend on flights is high, when in truth most of Americans travel by road.
The people that use electric heaters are in the minority (compared to those that dont) and thus you cannot use the effect of it on their electric bill as a representation for the average consumer.

another meaningless rant,
can u pls for the sake of others reading this thread tell us what exactly u propose to do with the hopeless power situation
what exactly is your solution, that would be helpful

cause from where i see it, it seems u want the status quo to remain and more money to be wasted
u talk of transmission,distribution and so on, can u explain to us how a budget of $1billion dollars(2010) for the power sector can achieve
production, talkless of transmission and upgrades of the useless grid?see link below. . . .
http://www.businessdayonline.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=9587:fears-of-inflationary-pressure-as-nassembly-tops-2010-budget-by-n500bn&catid=1:latest-news&Itemid=18

Dude what exactly is your solution to the crises?
How are we to grow annually by 7% like Sanusi likes to claim, without an investment of more than $10billion/yr in the power sector?
How do u sustain huge industrial and Mining concerns like Gold and A luminium smelting and Ajaokuta Steel,and build new ones
without a compuond growth in the installed and generating capacity of the country
Pray who will give that money to the Nigerian Govt?

Our annual budget for 2010 is about 4.6Trillion, $30billion dollars
whearas everyone has acknowledged we need investments of $10billion a yr to catch up to even south africa in the power sector

South Africa just annouced it will spend $11billion in new power plants and upgrades in the next 2yrs or so,

Mr Biiina, where will PHCN get that kind of money from?
who will lend to PHCN in its current form, with corruption and political intereferance running rampant?

So kindly please tell us how u will solve the power crises in Nigeria without deregulating the sector and letting other players that are credit worthy to come in source for funds and build and own their own power stations,distribution lines and so on,with the ability to serve a dedicated or general outfit
cheers

Go and read up on the steps being taken already before criticizing.

A suggested starting point http://power.cpcstrans.com/files/IndustryStructure.pdf
From there, you can look for other documents to make yourself better informed.

When you have a clear understanding of the status quo and the directions things are moving, only then can you come and criticize things.

Beaf:

It is surely as "effective" and moral as chopping off hands as punishment for petty theft. . . And since when did the CBN become a debt collection agency? (I am beginning to feel you are as useless as Sanusi as far as such matters are concerned).
I asked you a very simple question which you you obviously can't answer. Please answer this question or quit, I don't have the time for any brainless discussion;
"Where in the whole World (including Sudan), have you seen bank clients names and account details published in the press by the Central Bank? Where?"

Every country is free to solve their problems however they deem fit. If you dont like the solution, and cannot offer credible alternatives,then feel free to emigrate to a country where the debtors are given national medals
Thanks to publishing the lists, over N100 billion has been recovered. If its legal and effective, its of little relevance whether Nigeria is the first or last country to do so, or must we always copy someone else?

Nigerians and illegality. Person owe money, no wan pay, u come dey complain of newspaper advert. You are more concerned about the non-paying debtors than the bank staff that are losing their jobs because those debtor refuse to pay up.

Anybody wey no wan see im name for newspaper, make im go service im loan. shikena!

In Yoruba
North = Ariwa
South = Guusu
East = Ilaorun
West = Iwoorun