₦airaland Forum

fergie001:
I know Ojo so wel, I was born there and my family house still there.
I vote at FOA Primary school and can even guess the person who did that.

I support e-transmission, it will curb mutilation & manipulation of results but just not confident of us trying it first-time at Presidential. I have conceded it should be passed, we have Osun ahead of us.

I am actually surprised that this was not passed since 2025.
It baffles me so much.

ryloy:
So that you can manipulate input data.

How many of the uploaded data have I manipulated so far.??

PDPdestroyer:
Electronic transmission of manual votes? Does this OP know what he’s even talking about? There’s an ignorance pandemic in this country, largely due to Obidients

You give Physical Cash to a bank cashier/teller, and he/she transfers it electronically to the bank account you desired.. That one is not a problem to you?

You give physical cash to the POS Operator, and he/she does the electronic transfer into the bank account you want the money transferred into. That one too is not a problem to you?

IgOga:
Interesting conversation.

Results can be transferred manually or electronically. It doesn't matter what method as long as the right result is transferred. Both transfer process can be manipulated.

Infact it is easier to manipulate e-voting than manual voting. With e voting a simple code of "subtract 1000 votes from every party, or add 100000 votes"

Tell me how to subtract the 1,000,000 from the figures written inside an uploaded photo.!!

Jorussia:
I think we need to stop this idea of using half measures to cure our electoral deficiencies.The appropriate thing should be electronic voting along with real time online transmission and collation of results.

The opposition are putting too much energy on trivia issue of electronic transmission of results, instead of building a strong network of politicians that can influence and defend votes.If u think simply transmitting results on irev can stop a very determined and united ruling party,I pity you.

They vehemently refused the ELECTRONIC VOTING Option.

So, if we get a half-of-the-system which gets us half-way to what we want and makes the rigging very hard for them,, they will have no options than be the ones asking the right questions like: "if we waste all the time doing Manual Voting and Electronic UPLOADING,, why not go straight-away and approve full electronic voting with optional manual voting for places where full electronic voting is difficult, or persons who cannot do the electronic voting.

Racoon:
Both real time transmission of accredited voters from iREV too is very important and not only the election results. Thanks for the sustained enlightenment sir.

Exactly.!!

INEC had successfully tested it before on the 11th of November-2023..
And then, they wiped it off from the IREV on the 14th of November 2023 --- and they never did it again,, even up till today ---- just because it is not clearly stated in the electoral laws.

Redoil:
blunt craze mad i greet you.
one thing about the constitution is the ambiguity.
that is why people interpret and accept it any how depending who it favours

I wonder why the ambiguity is just too much.

Very soon, some people will rush here to come and start teaching me what “Real-time” is, and what “IREV” is supposed to be doing.


They will even start to teach me about the “RUSSIAN HACKERS” who dealt with the US Elections as far-back as 2020.

MY DEAR FELLOW COMPATRIOTS.!!

Please watch out for these 3 Sections of the Electoral-Act-2022.

These are the exact sections of the Electoral Act which the National Assembly MUST make mandatory and to be carried out in real-time.
(Or they can use the word “INSTANT” or “INSTANTLY”, if the phrase “Real-Time” is giving them tough time)

Those important sections are:

(a).. Section:50(2)

(b).. Section:60(5)

(c).. Section:62(2)

..
The National Assembly is currently making us to believe that it is only the Section:60(5) that needed the amendment.
But this is not actually true.


Then, as for the Section:47, the National Assembly should include another clause (clause-4) after clause(3.); which should be for the instant (or real-time) transmission of the “Number of Accredited Voters” direct from the BVAS-Machines.

And for the Section:64, the National Assembly should include another clause(9.) after clause(8.).
(That-is, before the original clause(9.) -- which should now become clause(10.)); which should be for the instant (or real-time) transmission (or upload) of the collated results, to be done by the collation officers or returning officers - subject to the completion of the activities enumerated in clauses(4-to-8.) of the same Section:64.

Image123:
Lolz, you don't have the answers. Keep misleading those who don't want to think.

Bye.

And have a great day.

I hate repeating myself.
I already answered you multiple times

Gajagojo:
So what?
I have said it
Listen I don't have time for childish games you can engage seriously or bugger off

On another thread meant for it,, we will discuss it.


But you see what you are trying to do on this topic..?
It is called DERAILING.!!

And I am not ready to do that with this particular topic here.!!

Scamburster:
Na you fit these miscreants,

No mind them.

They are always typing with zero-level intelligence.

Gajagojo:
.........We cannot have endless reruns............

Nobody said this on this thread (nor insinuated such)

casualobserver:
No! What I said and is evidenced in your summary is that Nigerians have a fundamental problem with the English language because nothing I said should lead anyone with a basic understanding of English to your conclusion/ summary above!

I see you are the thread starter and if your pointless repeated but meaningless quoting of my posts is an attempt to give life to a pointless thread, please count me out.

You should have left the thread long ago -- when you had the chance.

You can still leave it now.

Image123:
You claimed there were no serious cybersecurity concerns. 12 million cyber attacks is not a serious cybersecurity concern? You also claimed INEC was paid. Paid what, by whom and for what?

I'm done explaining.
Thanks

Image123:
Keep lying to yourself and those who can't see through the sham then.

If you look inside a basin filled with water, whatever you say you saw inside the basin is up to you.

What I wrote was very clear.
I finished reading what you responded, and I had to read what I wrote up there again.

Then I started asking whether you saw some other posts or comments elsewhere, and tried to interpolate them with what I wrote here.

Image123:
What is paid for? You trust INEC but you're complaining about glitch. How much is the money paid for cybersecurity, na you pay?
You're like someone saying you paid your maiguard his full 5k salary so he should kill himself or allow himself be killed than allow thieves with bazookas rob your 5billion.

I am not going to explain myself any further than what I typed up there.


You understood what I typed.
Stop twisting your brain unnecessarily.

Gajagojo:
Please let us not mix this English
What is

AFFECTS THE LAW?

So if the election is cancelled what happens next?

If we cannot have glitch free elections after several cancellations what then?

1. “Affects the Law” in this case here means “Goes against the extant electoral laws”.

2. If results gets cancelled, then there would either be a Rerun (if some Polling-Units were affected), or a new election would be conducted afresh (if the cancellation was due to a gross electoral misconduct which affected the final result in such a way that the misconducts couldn't be traced down to the particular Polling-Units -- for instance -- a Manipulation of the value at the FINAL COLLATION POINT).

casualobserver:
That is the confusion being created. They never said they are cancelling what you demanded in the highlighted section. That still exists. It was never removed.

The Abaribe faction are trying to be clever by half. Playing with words like transmit or transfer. They voted for retain8 g the same system as 2023 and when they saw backlash, instead of educating the public they tried to play the it’s not us card. Whether transfer or transmit, it is the same thing.


I have posted several time on the issue of our election system. Anyone who is a system engineer or a process developer, systems analyst etc who actually goes through the electoral system and procedures will realise it is a fool proof system. Will people attempt to rig? Yes but the current system will always leave evidence. You can’t hide rigging under the current system.

It’s a fact and I challenge anyone to tell me how you can rig the current system without leav8ng evidence of your rigging?


I am waiting!


You rigged, your opponent did not challenge the result because he knew he wouldn’t have won doesn’t mean the system doesn’t have evidence of your rigging. If it were close he will produce the evidence. The truth is the whole attack on IREV was because the losers having access to the physical results and evidence of any rigging could not prove they won and instead tried to discredit a viewing portal which had no role in the collation of results. That bad sportsmanship is what has brought us to where we are.

In summary..

You are saying that:
transmitting the physical results electronically immediately they were produced -- before taking them to the next level of collation”
should Not be allowed in our electoral laws.??

Image123:
Lolz 12.9million cyber attacks is not an issue, right? Because INEC was smarter.

It was all paid for.,, so they have to deliver in full.

You're actually demarketing INEC so much for rating them so low.

I am trusting INEC so much here when it comes to cyber-security,, and you're here painting me in negative colours because of it.??

Gajagojo:
Please help me understand
If the National Assembly accepts the proposed electronic transmission and for some reason e.g. GLITCH it does not happen whatbis the consequence

E.g does this mean cancellation

You mean,, When GLITCH happens.??

If Glitch happens and it affects the Law, then it means cancellation.


And again, even as glitch happens, there are possible alternatives in the law.
Which are actually there in the passed law.. but it would take longer time and it would be more and tedious -- and even the slightest mistakes while applying the alternatives would cause cancellations too..

So, it would be in the best interest of INEC for there not to be instances of glitches.

fergie001:
That copy the agent has, other agents have it.
The Police has it.
The original is with INEC.
Subpoena the police to bring the original.

That was how Hope Uzodimma won. Ihedioha and INEC argued those centres did not have results because they were cancelled. Uzodimma said No, my agents have copies. He produced it. INEC was asked to counter it, and they couldn't.

He subpoenaed the Police during the tribunal, the Police came with ghana-must-go bags filled with original copies of Forms EC8A.

In Edo State,, they didn't subpoena the police.
I guess that was where they made their own mistake.!!

But they were trying to establish that the results they have in their own “duplicate copies” were totally different from what the INEC presented at the Tribunal as the “CTCs of the Original Copies” of the same results.

The judges said that those “duplicate copies” were not legible -- even though the petitioners claimed that they could see what was written inside those duplicate copies, and that they are consistent with the uploaded results on the IREV-Portal.

..

Something is clear now.
If the copies of the Party-Agents are not legible enough, then, the next thing would be to subpoena the police.

Image123:
You just said "We never heard of any serious cyber-security concerns around the IREV."
So i brought to your attention the news of over 12.9million cyber attacks. And you dismiss it with adequate measures paid for. Are you INEC's chief security officer?

Cyber-security was never the main issue around the IREV-Portal since it came into use in 2021..

Thanks.

casualobserver:
Manual counting is the best, every body has a signed copy of the result sheet and BVS has a record of the accredited voters. If you need to investigate you can forensically examine every single thumb printed ballot which has been done before. IREV is a viewing portal.



We need to do more thinking in this country.

Let me even assume that I don't even know anything any longer.

Let me really understand what you're trying to say.

..

So, after the manual counting (which we have all now accepted),, and we have also all accepted that they should physically carry the manually counted results to the next collation level..

Is there anything wrong in us demanding that they should make that physical result they counted at the lower level available publicly online -- while they are physically carrying it to the next level of collation.??

Even if they want to make corrections or do some cancellations at the upper level of collation,, we need to see what the results were like before the corrections began,, and what later came out after the corrections.!!

Is that something big to demand for.??

Image123:
https://www.pulse.ng/story/fg-says-over-129-million-cyber-attacks-were-recorded-during-last-elections-2024072608450539311?

Now, you heard.

Agree with me that the so-called cyber-attacks was not the cause of the GLITCH.!!

The GLITCH was caused by the errors and omissions of the ICT personnel (for not creating the adequate algorithms)..

So, why bringing the news of cyber-attacks here??

There will always be cyber-attacks.
And it will always be defeated conveniently.!!

The adequate cyber-security measures were being paid adequately for..
So, why should I bother again about it?

fergie001:
I endorse e-transmission of results but skeptical about the timing.

In hindsight, the EA 2022 was passed just before the Osun 2022 Guber election. Following that the Osun Guber will be in August this year, I therefore endorse the passage and eventual signing and enactment of the amendment so that we can try it out before next year.

This will help in curbing rigging but again, there has to be boots on the ground.

Dear Fergie001..

Something happened in Edo State.
We encountered a very big problem while studying the petition of the Edo State Governorship Election..

..

The “ORIGINAL DUPLICATE COPIES” of the results which the Presiding Officers gave to the PDP Party Agents are not legible enough..
(Or should I say,, the “Original Duplicate Copies” of the results which the PDP Party Agents presented at the tribunal were not legible enough)

..

Thus, it meant that the party agents were there, they did what they were supposed to do.
But the duplicate copy they got were not legible enough.

In this situation,, what would the Party Agents have done differently.??
How would they have done at time their illegible duplicate copies were given to them, in order to make their duplicate copies clearer and legible, and still not go against the law of “Mutilation”.??

benardtotti:
Wrong sir ! The opposition is lazy and just need an excuse when they loose, cos you dont need to solve problems one by one when all the loopholes can be addressed by one electoral amendments.

As fergie001 said , get boots on ground, do the dirty work ,not looking for easy way out .

If this was how Apc behaved pre 2015 , pdp would still be in power .

There was a problem which the politicians and political analysers encountered in Edo State..

I asked Fergie the question here.

Maybe you also can find the question and give me a lasting solution too..

I am here to find solutions, not to drag anybody.

Tareq1105:
Have you thought of the cyber security around E-transmission?

IREV had been working since 2021.
We never heard of any serious cyber-security concerns around the IREV.

WHY SHOULD WE COME NOW -- SIX YEARS LATER -- AND START TO BOTHER ABOUT IT.?



.

I asked bcoz even US election results was hacked in 2019 by Russia and Trump hasn't forgiven Putin.

You said 2019. (Or do you mean 2020.??)

Why didn't such a story repeat itself again in their 2024 election.??

Remember also that Atiku brought in hackers from Kenya in 2019 election and BVAS was attacked then.

SEVEN GADDAMMMNNED YEARS AGO.!!!!

Also recall that China hacked Japan election results 7 years ago and it led to cold war between them.

And after the cold war, the two countries resorted to manual methods of election.?? Or they beefed-up their cyber-security.??

ARE YOU IN ANY WAY DEMARKETING NIGERIA BY SAYING THAT NIGERIA DOESN'T EVEN HAVE ANY CYBER-SECURITY IN PLACE.??

So, do you think Nigeria has enough facilities to protect our votes against external influence?

MY ANSWER IS A VERY LOUD “YESS”...

To me, these are the challenges we need to look at in as much as we want a credible election but it seems most media houses are just shouting E-transmission.

You just cited the challenges other countries had, yet these countries never went ANALOG. They continued with Electronic Transmission..
Yet, you used their experiences as an excuse to go ANALOG.??

Go and examine your thinking oga.

You're not supposed to be a fool.
Please don't be one now.

Tareq1105:
How's E-transmission possible without E-voting?

How is it usually possible for bankers to count PHYSICAL CASH and then transfer the value of the counted cash electronically into the desired bank account.??

..

I AM WAITING FOR YOUR RESPONSE.!!

casualobserver:
Like I said in previous posts today, what you want is electronic voting. But because Nigerians have a fundamental problem with English they don’t even know how to articulate what they want. Instead they call it electronic transmission.

You can’t have real time electronic transmission if you don’t have electronic voting.

And sorry to burst your bubble,
1: Nigeria is not equipped for electronic voting, INEC will have to redesign the entire voting infrastructure. Certain
Y not in time for 2027 and we do t have the money.
2: more importantly, electronic voting is the worst possible option for someone who wants to prevent rigging or hacking. You will argue with me no doubt but go and ask countries like the USA who practice e-voting. The hacking cases from the Florida votes are still unresolved, glossed over because it was only 1 state. Imagine spending 10years to prove electronic rigging and hacking? And that’s America with vastly more resources than Nigeria. And that’s just one state in America. Imagine if the whole of the USA used e-voting? Now imagine if someone hacked Nigerian election server and you have no manual votes to fall back on or recount?

Ask INEC a how many hacking attempts were made on their servers in the 2019 and 2023 elections. In 2023, there were 12.7million server hack attempts on the day of the election. Now imagine if you didn’t have any paper evidence of how people actually voted?

As far as I am concerned anyone advocating e-voting is planning to hack and rig the elections.

Sometimes we need to see beyond our noses when we ask for changes.

There is “Electronic Voting”, and there is “Electronic Transmission”...
The two of them are two different things, and we know exactly the one which we are demanding for at this very moment..

.

They said that NIGERIA is not ready for Electronic Voting,, that the OLD MEN AND WOMEN IN THE HINTERLANDS AND VILLAGES cannot vote properly with the electronic voting machines..

No Wahalla..
We agreed.

We are no more demanding for Electronic Voting.
Let there be MANUAL VOTING, AND MANUAL COUNTING -- For the sake of the OLD MEN AND WOMEN AND ILLITERATES TOO..

But after the manual voting, let the results be transmitted electronically first.
And then, the usual MANUAL COLLATION can follow.

Just the way bankers count your PHYSICAL CASH, and post it electronically, and then transfer it electronically to the desired bank account you wish to pay it into...,,; that's just the same exact way they should count the physical votes, and then transmit it electronically too..

The “Realtime” here refers to the transmission itself,, not the voting.
After the voting had ended, and counting the physical votes had also ended -- and the results got transmitted,, the transmitted results should be seen immediately on the IREV-Portal..

..

You're trying to say that the bankers who were counting the physical cash at the bank, the figures should be reflecting in the desired bank account immediately they lodged the cash inside the counting machine??

The answer is “NO”.

It only reflects after it had been posted and transferred.
And it then reflects immediately and in “REALTIME” inside the desired bank-account.

Inspirer1:
1, 2 and 3 ARE ALL VERY IMPORTANT

Exactly.!!

They had been doing the No.1 all these while.

..

They should also add No.2 a No.3 join am too..