@ Monicaa

Who says the pope or catholics call themselves "God"?

You didn't know that?

@ Lady

Seriously Bobby, you really want to go there?

Yes I do. Show us the posts from any thread where you asked a question and I didn't answer. The onus is on you to prove your case.

How does Z answer A?How many times have I asked you questions about the Bible and then when you're not able to sensibly answer, you jump to "You should see the Roman paganism in the Catholic Church"

As I have said prove your case!

Honey you're a broken record and everyone knows it.

To you it is, but to others it is otherwise.

I don't think you know what the definition of confusion is. No one is leading anyone astray, except for you who cannot have a life without attacking the Catholic Church.

Take for example. You have not yet responded to the very photos obviously displaying open idolatry among Catholics members and leaders alike. Instead you and that Chukwudi of yours, the one among you with the least amount of sense, are on the defensive. Good! That is exactly where I want the whole lot of you. Defend with lies and vain arguments, if you choose.

If truly you had good intentions you would have addressed the many issues and questions that have been posted to you.

The bible makes this an important issue, and since you are taught to ignore the bible and to follow Catholic tradition instead, hence your response.

You never make any sense of anything Bobby, and that's why when questions are asked of you, you immediately jump to your rants. Because you have nothing new.

Rants?  Listen to yourself, you who find it so easy calling people all sorts of names? 

It amazes me to see people who think they have the fresh new idea of delivering people from the Catholic Church. Do you think you're the first one? Do you think these issues haven't been addressed before?
Bobby you go around in circles spewing the same nonsense and in the process you confuse yourself.
You really think all these crap your raising we haven't seen it and refuted it before?

If it were nonsense then why are Catholics leaving the church?

Been there done that. Stop coming with these "golden" ideas that will convert people. If a Catholic knows his or her faith they won't convert if anything you make others believe more in the Catholic faith.
I certainly know that when I've had discussions with intelligent people and I've answered their questions and they've answered my questions, one of us ends up converting. Guess what this past Easter, some of my friends became Catholic, because their eyes were finally opened and they no longer had to be slaves to hatred for the unknown.

They became Catholics, but are they born-again Christians? Do they know Christ as their Mediator, rather than Mary or dead saints?

If you were truly honest, you would've addressed the issues I brought up earlier in this thread and you would've logically held a discussion. But you didn't do that Bobby, instead you talked about something else that had nothing to do with the topic.

No amount of feigning can help you lady. Deep down you know you have no case against the truth. As long as you remain a catholic you dare not use the bible to defend your teachings. You know it and we know it. So quit the crap about not responding to the issues you have brought up, as if they are really relevant.

Really Bible truth? Bible truth that contradicts the Bible? Really Bobby? Bible truths that they all disagree on? Which one is right Bobby? Can you tell me that?
Killed millions of what innocent christians. You mean the christians that massacred Catholic Christians for holding their beliefs or do you mean the Christians that kill and humiliate and are bigots towards Catholic Christians. Or are you not aware that the only accepted form of prejudice permitted today is that of anti-catholicism.

Do a google on the inquisition and come back to the forum. Catholics die when they delve in politics, as your leaders are known for doing. Its usually their own doing.

And have you forgotten that God himself chose and gave the power to cast out demons to a man that betrayed him?

Deny not betray! Get your facts straight please.

Yes the same man who had the Holy Spirit working through him betrayed Christ. Or is it that you are not aware that even those whose writings you consider infallible abandoned God and denied him when he needed them the most.

Don't confuse the issue here lady. God's Holy Spirit can only enter a person when they are truly ready. Peter and the rest of the disciples were not ready even when Jesus called them for ministry. The convicting work of the Holy Spirit had to take place first before the anointing. However, whenever such a person is born again then the change becomes obvious. "Old things are passed away, behold all things become new"

The same people he gave the power to cast out demons and to heal people and to forgive are the same people who abandoned and betrayed him.

Thank God for His patience, heh!

So are you going to make the claim that because they abandoned God and betrayed him they couldn't possibly have been the real disciples and apostles or God's Church?

That was never my line of argument. Notice you're the one introducing it, not me.

How does the actions of a few people lead to Catholic Church not being God's Church?
Or better yet, where in the Bible does it say that God's Church will not defend herself against heresies or she will be perfect in actions?

Because Jesus said otherwise. God says "vengeance belongs to me" God's church was never called to defend itself using the inquisition that killed people who simply accepted the bible as their standard of truth. Stop trying to justify evil. Open your eyes.

[Quote]
I keep asking myself why, and then I realise that Christ would come back too. He would even still love those who betray him and abandon him and speak negatively of him.[/quote]

Make sure you think before you blabber your mouth next time.

The Pharisees plotted his death but he did not have an ounce of hatred for them instead he forgave them. Therefore I cannot have an ounce of hatred for you.

And you dare not deny that many a deaths were plotted by the RCC.

A quick question: What makes you think you're not wrong? Are you the infallible interpreter of the Bible?

Because I use the bible as my guide, and not the catechism.

[quote][/quote]

So if tithing is so bad, then why did God introduce it in the first place? Was it bad then?

Do a research on those churches that practice tithing, and those who don't and see the difference in terms of growth and development.

I have no problem with systematic giving. The bible says tithing is "holy unto the Lord". Malachi says "if a man refuses to pay tithes he is a robber. "Can a man rob God" asked the prophet? What was the response of the man of God? Read thus:

Malachi 3:8,9 "Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation."

God said it, its either you believe or you don't.

And seeing how they call themselves God I wonder if he can heal himself. Surely God can heal, right?

@ Lady and Chukwudi44



Just take a look at the above death from one of the inquisition methods employed by your so-called "God's church"

Lady please ignore the fool,I had not wanted to post again until I saw ur mail.Please let's ignore this ignoramus

Be careful lest you damn yourself to hell. Recall what Jesus said about calling people who know God as fools. Its obvious that you do not even know your bible.

I didn't write with a temper. I just wanted to point something. I've discussed with Bobbyaf several times. Believe me he will not answer any questions you pose to him. He beats around the bush and changes the subject. You can always tell the devil's work. He never faces truth, he never answers questions, he always avoids giving a direct answer, he is so cunnying he will twist the truth to his advantage.

I challenge you on that diabolic lie. Go through all of my posts where I have addressed all your issues, including those with whatever questions you alluded to that I have refused to answer.  

Bobbyaf has attacked the Catholic Church, and he doesn't care to listen to what you or I have to say. He has an agenda, unfortunately he doesn't know that he's actually fighting against God's Church.

I do not attack people. I attack deceitful institutions like the leaders who lead innocent people astray. Don't confuse the issues, and certainly do not confuse the readers of the thread.


Your so-called "God's church" killed millions of innocent Christians whose only crime was to follow bible truth rather than the RCC's dogmas. Your so-called "God's church" at one point had 3 popes vying for power. That is not what Christ established and bequeathed to His disciples.

He likes that we're paying him too much attention and that's why I ask everyone to leave him and the others alone. Let them wallow in their foolishness, when they face God they will have to explain why they stand against his Church.

Its funny how you and your catholic sympathizers keep coming back.

NEW WORLD ORDER.THE DEVIL IN THE VATICAN!!
A MUST WATCH VIDEO.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLp9xigjajM&feature=related

I am really sorry for the innocent Catholics who have been caught in the Vatican's web of deceit and lies. Only God can deliver them from now on. Time is short and soon the mark will be established, first in the US, and then throughout the world.

@ ogajim

And the greatest commandment is what? Matthew 22:36-40
Jesus fulfilled the LAW.

God bless!!!!

What law did he fulfill may I ask? And what do you understand [b]fulfill [/b]to mean?

@ OLAADEGBU

The problem with persons who do not know Christ as Lord and Savior, is that they are the least aware of the power of the bible and the God of the bible to change lives from a vile state to that of a virtuous state.

These people whose duty it is to express in an indirect, and subconscioius manner their own wretchedness, and wayward lifestyle, are bound to do what they do best, and that is to resist the Spirit's call to surrender. They pretend to not care, but deep down they do. God knows it and they know it.

To each man is granted a probationary time period to make things right with God. Every man has a choice to either believe or not believe. Deep down they know what is happening, but are afraid to be accountable to an Almighty God who will soon judge them. Their day is short for soon He that will come, will come and will not tarry.

I bid you ignore the fools, for fools they are, with very little to contribute to life, and proceed to bless those who are willing to learn.

Is this really true? Lets see:

Its said:

"And Jesus said. . .for with God ALL THINGS are possible".(Mathew, 19:26)

But why:

"And the Lord was with Judah; and he drove out the inhabitants of the mountain; but COULD NOT drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had CHARIOTS OF IRON." (jUDGES 1:19).

Isn't this an apparent contradiction? Any explanation? Thanks

Its not a contradiction until you approach the passage from a contextual point of view. All things are possible when your faith is strong in God, but apart from that God didn't promise that His people would be victorious in every battle. In Exudus 23:29, we see this remark"I will not drive them out from before thee in one year; lest the land become desolate, and the beast of the field multiply against thee."

Israel was small in number in comparison, and if God had quickly allowed them to conquer such a vast territory then what would be the point of having the land and not being able to occupy it?

Another possible reason could be that the men of Judah allowed their fear to overcome their faith in the Lord. In fact, in Joshua 17:14-18, we see that Joshua is trying to convince his people that they can overcome troops that have iron chariots.

I find it surprising that you are here making noise about idol worshiping in the catholic church. There is no church that they do not do wrong things. What matters most is the true doctrine of the church. In the catholic doctrine, worshiping images is not allowed. People are to bow slightly to images as a sign of respect. This is simply because it's 'roman' catholic. They bow slightly to their leaders or those in authority as a sign of respect. Therefore catholics verenate, not worship. Apart from that if you are a yoruba person you must have seen people even falling down, kissing the feet and so on and so forth. You are not a judge neither are you in the mind of the doer. The immaculate mother deserves respect not only because she is the mother of God, but because she fights against the devil, "The woman shall crush the head of the serpent.", another one says"And the dragon chased her to devour her, but God gave her wings". Now it's my turn. Let me ask you something. Tell me about the doctrine of your church and I will tell you ten stupid things your doctrine has. If you can give a valid defense. You win.

I am not here to win. God is the winner when truth is revealed and accepted. Jesus said, "If you love me keep my commandments", John 14:15

You cannot have it both ways. You cannot freely disobey God's instructions, and at the same time claim to have a relationship with Him.

Lady, it's not so nice to write with such temper. We're all christians. Remember proverbs 26:5 says Do not talk to a fool lest he thinks you be like him, yet verse 6 tells you to talk to a fool lest he thinks he's wise. We must act according to wits. This sabbath people all think this way, so It's your job to show them love by answering their questions and revealing to them their wrongs. That's why I told him to tell me about their doctrine so that I pin point their fallacies on-the-fly.

No doubt you're Catholic. I am not surprised you'd want to defend blatant paganism even when it stares you in the face.

@ Krayola

Is the Old Testament only valid when Christians agree with it?

Not as far as I am aware. I for one don't make that much of a distinction between the Old and the New Testament. St. Paul said "all scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine and reproof". Were you aware of this passage?

God said a lot of things in the Old Testament that are kinda crazy . . . How do you know which ones to go with?

Its crazy because you have no clue as to what is going on. Don't blame God for your failure to know the word.

What Jesus was interested in was building a society with equal/egalitarian commensality. Free of discrimination and hierarchy. . .where people were not marginalized for being women, or having eczema etc. He touched lepers (a big deal in his time. . If u had psoriasis, u were dead as far as society was concerned. .for a charismatic person like Jesus to physically touch you "healed" you from ur ostracization) and ate on the same table with beggars, and people that society frowned on. That was what Jesus was about. His beef was with the Jewish authorities and the way the Jewish code allowed for this type of inhumane treatment of their fellow Jews, especially under foreign occupation. Jesus wasn't interested in such superficial shit as who and what u bowed ur head to, he was interested in creating a more just society in which love was the guiding principle.

This is not what the thread was designed to discuss.

When u come here and attack people for stuff that really isn't important. . . puttin all Catholics in a box and accuse them of being everything wrong with Christianity, u make a mockery of everything Jesus was about.

I am not attacking Catholics. I am showing how their leaders are brazenly leading their members into idolatry. If you were a committed Christian you'd have gotten the gist of this thread.

How is bowing to an idol different from not bowing to an idol?  It doesn't matter who or what u bow to. . . . Love ur neighbor as u do urself and God can't be mad at u. It's that simple. . .

So how do you explain his command not to bow to graven images? So are you saying that God made a mistake when He gave such a command? You sound as if you know more than God!!!

Don't come in YOUR thread? Lol. Bobbyaf, pls feel free to eat your thread. I'll gladly dust off my feet and go my own way cos I'm not gaining anything from your so-called thread. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I wish you the best on YOUR thread.

Go in peace!

Quotes from Catholics

"The Pope is not only the representative of Jesus Christ, he is Jesus Christ himself, hidden under the veil of flesh." Catholic National July 1895.

"We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty" , Pope Leo XIII Encyclical Letter of June 20, 1894,

"For thou art the shepherd, thou art the physician, thou art the director, thou art the husbandman, finally thou art another God on earth." Labbe and Cossart's "History of the Councils." Vol. XIV, col. 109

With that said is it now surprising to see these,

1. Catholics agree bowing before Jesus or kissing His feet = worship in Scripture. However, Catholics disagree doing the exact same thing to the Pope is worship. To top it off they are kissing his ring, or feet.

[img]http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:Osx8HDVg7_ydTM:http://ivarfjeld.files./2009/06/esp_vatican_pope_chavez_sff_ful1.jpg[/img]

[img]http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:y36c116HwjTKGM:http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/kiss-foot.jpg[/img]

Kissing the pope's feet.



Pope himself bowing before an image,






Faithful Catholics bow before sculpture of pope - open idolatry.

GBAM!! It is so simple.

Feed the hungry, care for the sick, love others like u love urself etc . . . That is what it's all about. A toilet worshiper that does these things is more Jesus-like than most people that come here to quote scripture.

Let me ask you a simple question. What do you think about the photos I posted? Do you think that the God you claim to serve is content with the practices and teachings within the Roman Catholic Church? Do you think that such persons are deserving of the truth of Jesus Christ? Are you aware of what Jesus said about the truth?

Jesus said in John 8:32, "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."

If you desire freedom you dare not close your eyes to truth, and pretend that all is "lovy dovy" with God.

Jesus once said "eyes they have but cannot see, "

@ Maedan

Sorry to say, but Bobyaf reminds me of the Pharisees in the Bible, who were supposed to draw the flock to God, but instead made it difficult. You act like you know the Word back to front, but actually, you only see what you choose to see. The basic teaching of the Bible, of Jesus Christ Himself, was love. Stop trying to pluck out the speck in someone else's eye. And don't you dare ever say, you don't know which kind of bible I'm reading. Who do you think you are?

You're so wrong its not even funny.

Do you think that God is lopsided like you in your thinking? Were you aware that although God is love that will not stop Him from casting those who follow Satan straight into the fires of hell? He is love but don't forget that He is a God of justice as well.

Do you think I come here with a boastful knowledge? Far from it. I am here with a warning message, and that is for you to find out all you can about the beast, and to stay the hell away from its teachings, and practices. If you don't you will receive the wrath of God that will not be partial. The bible says it, and I believe it, and that settles it for me.

So don't you begin to see me in the wrong light. Don't come in my thread and attempt to distract from this message.

Why dont you introduce the sabath since pentecostals don't observe it

Go confess your sin of disrespect to your Catholic priest. Have some respect for the author of the thread.

My understanding of the gift of tongues is quite a different thing. I personally don't see the gift as uttering sounds that are not understandable.

In Acts 2 the apostles spoke and the other Jewish people from 16 different nations in the diaspora understood them. Bear in mind that the disciples spoke the Galilean Hebrew dialect. The other Jewish people who lived outside Jerusalem only came there to celebrate the feast of the Passover, which incidentally coincided with the feast of Pentecost.

It was while they were in Jerusalem that the Holy Spirit came upon the disciples as was promised by Jesus which empowered them to receive the gifts, including the gift of tongues.

This manifestation is not the same as seen today in the congregations. Why do I say that? Because the languages spoken by the disciples, and those that were heard by the outsiders were intelligible languages. The bible remarked that so impressed were they that they marvelled that the disciples who were from Galilee could have spoken their mother language with such ease.

That was the utterance that the Spirit gave. The Spirit of God was able to work the miracle both ways. He empowered the disciples to speak without having to learn a foreign language, while empowering the listeners to understand a strange dialect. So both speakers and listeners understood.

Today what we have is everyone trying to speak all at once, which is in contradiction to what St. Paul teaches in 1 Corinthian 14, St. Paul asks the questions in 1 Corinthians 12, do all speak in tongues?, Do all prophesy?, and we all know that the resounding answer is no, And if the answer is no then why must people be led to believe and accept the false teaching that if you do not speak with tongues you're not truly filled?

The gift of tongues was given to the early Christians for a reason, and that was to be able to break the language barrier where ever they went with the gospel of Jesus Christ. As soon as they were baptized they received the gift. It was never meant to be used in a manner that would create the kind of ridicule as we have seen by those who look on. The body jerks and swaying are foreign to the original purpose of the gift.

Imagine, Bobbyaf a seven day adventist berating catholics

To the contrary I am not. There are good decent members in the organization, but Christians have a duty to let them know what is at stake. God is going to pour 7 plauges on all those who recieve the mark of the beast just before Jesus returns.

Revelation 16:

verse 2, 1st plague = grievous sores break out

verse 3, 2nd plague = sea becomes blood

verse 4, 3rd plague = rivers and water systems become blood

verse 8, 4th plague = sun scorches men with fire

verse 10, 5th plague = darkness falls on the beast's kingdom ( in this case the Vatican)

verse 12, 6th plague = symbolic Euphrates dries up

verses 18-21, 7th plague = massive earthquake that destroys the nations' cities; universal hails 50 lbs each in weight

This is why we must warn the world before probation closes.

@babyof
You must be enjoying all the attention you are getting on this thread; i read the other poster's comment before i posted mine. You are really burning out your energy owing to your closed-mindedness to what the real issues are; where you ministering love to those who need it you would bring more Pele to Jesus than now.

People who argue especially without objectivity are seldom doers , remember empty barrels make the loudest noise!
To discover the whole truth you must be ready to let reason lead you.

This is just one of my many ways to witness. In other settings it is done differently in which I do not need to debate as such. I just simply give bible studies, or run evangelistic meetings preparing souls for the kingdom.

Don't limit limit my ministry to just forum debates.

2bobbyaff

How come God has to choose some few good people frm the RCC when he could have used the other true christians from the churches founded by the apostles.

Because the true bible-believing Christians were suppressed by the catholic church which had state power to defend it.

Remember in the time of Elijah God told him that he has saved another 7000  prophets from worshipping baal.

But the 7000 was small in number to those who worshiped Baal. There are always good people in bad organizations, and in the case when the true church was being suppressed ( see Rev. 12 which depicts God's true church as the woman being persecuted for 1260 years) by Catholic supremacy, God used some of the very Catholics to preserve the writings of the prophets and apostles.

An example can be found when God used Cyrus a heathen Persian king to save His people from Babylonian enslavement.

How come God couldn,t save this number  from the churches founded by the apostles .

He doesn't always work the way we expect Him to, and that is why He is mysterious.  

Can you prove from the gospel of mattew that it was mattew who wrote that gospel

My job is to believe not to prove who wrote or who didn't write.

The onus is on you to prove from the Bible hopw an evil church came and took over control from the true church ,successfully changed the sabath and even determined the books of the bible. do you know that for more than 1400 years that RCC held sway in the world and even today consttute more than 50 percent of christendom.

And that explains the high level of corruption that prevailed during the period. How do you explain 3 popes vying for power?

Do you know that from the time of moses to the birth of Jesus was not up to 1500 years,
how come after the birth and death of the messiah ,an evil church would take over the christianity and holding it longer than even the babylonians did yet no explicit warning was given in the bible.

It didn't happen over night. Paul also predicted a gradual development until the man of sin would pretend to be God. You know that many popes called themselves god. (see 2 Thess)

I would also like you to name the three arian kingdoms the RCC uprooted and in what year that happened .

That was covered in another thread that you yourself read and responded to. So why all of a sudden you pretend its the first time you're hearing it.

You can also from the prophecy of daniel and the book of the revelation tell us when the RC will end because as I am seeing the RCC grew even stronger after 1879 when it was suposed to die going by your stupid interpretation of Daniel's prophecy

It grows because it inherits properties from its dead members. It grows because of its infant baptisms. That kind of growth is shameful. It grows because catholic families are not allowed to use condoms which lead to an enlargement of families which end up on the books as growth.

So the growth of which you boast of is not a true growth of people who join the church as a result of experiencing the true birth. Sprinkling as practiced by the church runs contrary to the real baptism by immersion.

Boast all you want, but be prepared to see the many errors as practiced by your church.

@bobbyaff,

about the sabath,the truth is that the sabath was on a saturday,but the pope transferred the solenmity of the sabath to sunday,you may want to say that the pope does not have that power ,but remember that Jesus told Peter that awhatever you bind on earth is bound in heaven and what ever you loose on earth is loosed in heaven.

So why did Peter and Paul, and the other disciples continued keeping it after Jesus died? Peter was not the first pope. Popes lord it over their bishops, but Peter said the opposite. He said He would not Lord it over the apostles. Nowhere did peter suggest he was vicar of Christ. He always called himself an apostle of Christ. Nowhere did Peter allow anyone to come to him in confession.

The Pope as succcessors of Peter inherited this Power and mind you the motive behind you was because Jesus rose on sunday,the argument has been on even from the second century, st ignatius of antioch and st justin matyr has earlier alluded to making these change centuries before sylvester 1 finally implemented it.

That doesn't make a difference. There is no biblical authority to keep Sunday, and even your church acknowledges that. The fact that the apostles still kept the sabbath even after Christ went back to heaven, suggests that your teaching is wrong.

If you recognise the authourity of he Pope ,you can as well throw away the catholic canonised bibles since the pope like wise has no power to canonise them.

The catholic church did not write the bible. They simply brought the different books together in order to have it canonized. The collection of books were already written by the prophets of old, and the apostles of the New Testament. Bear in mind Chukwudi44 God can bring a good thing out of a bad thing, in the sense that among the apostate movement of Catholicism, God has His people some of whom have already left the organization.

You can revert to the practice of the early church that had no approved set of criptures ,hundredds of scriptures were in circulation. E ven the seperation into verses and chapters was done by the catholic church ,you can also discard them. Mind you all the gospel writers,the writers of acts,1-3 John,hebrews did not disclose their identity,The identities of these writers were disclosed by the RCC why dont you discard them since the RCC cannot be trusted.

I am not sure you have all the facts right. Go do some research.

young man what are you implying

You simply do not know what the word means, otherwise you would not have equated a photo with a graven image, when it is not.

@bobbyaff

I want you to prove from the bible how the RCC came and destroyed the churches founded by the apostles.

Correction. No one can destroy God's church, but the prophecies pointed to a system that would arise as a religio-political power that would attempt to change the order of things. The pure apostolic church that was left by Christ, and the apostles went through a lot of phases. During the bishopric certain developments started towards apostasy, which led to what is now known as Roman Catholicism.

Also you seventh day adventists claim that the RCC started existing from the seventh century where you traced your 1260 year period to 1879,how come the RCC that started existing in the seventh century,now come back to abolish the sabath in the fourth century?

Once again you have your facts wrong. What we are saying is that the apostate church would have been doing certain things during the 1260 year period, based on the prophesy of Daniel 7:25, and Revelation 13. This period of power forging began in BC538, when the pope was finally given power to do as he pleased, when the last of three Arian kingdoms was put out of the way. Daniel predicted that the little horn would uproot three kings. The papal system being a kingdom in its own right, made sure that the opposing Arian kingdoms were totally destroyed in that those kingdoms cannot even be found anywhere on the modern map.

Mind you fool, more than 90% of prophet Daniel's prophecies have been fulfilled,your lack of erudition and inherent stupidity has robbed you of basic christian facts and history.I feeel pity for you

Feel free to curse and swear, but remember for every idle word that a man speaks, according to Jesus, he will have to give an account in the judgment. Come with the facts instead of cursings and rantings.

Chukwudi44, what is the meaning of the word "graven"?

Come on good people you mean to tell me that no decent disagreements can be forthcoming from this thread? I have strong feelings about a lot of religious matters, but you have to list the issues and show them clearly.

Make a list of what you consider inappropriate and let us discuss them. There is no need to curse each other out.

@BABYOF

From my many conversations with non-catholics they percieve The Catholic Fiath as being trully iincapable of transforming one
spiritually, somewhat i concur that it is not easy to find a Catholic living a Christain lifestyle but this is the case with NON
CATHOLIC CHRISTIANS also if you want to be brutally sincere: the zeal for Christain lifestyles is waning
i think what is more important for us is to become the very members of Christ i.e His Eyes of Compassion, Limbs of Service, His
Heart of Love, this is the only language that even Non christains will understand it is the language that Christ spoke even when he
was suspended on th e Cross by 3 big, blunt nails rather arguing over doctrinal issues.
But for the sake of voicing my experience as a Catholic by CHOICE.

Worship is a thing of the heart just as prayer is, it is in the spirit not on the lips. When my Yoruba brother prostrates before his
dad in the morning to greet he is only expressing a certain respect for his dad who deserves being his father, it would be wrong to
equate the bodily act of prostration to another human being aa Idolatary, which is simpy giving a person or spirit (physical or
non-physical) the respect due to God alone as the Creator and Sustainer of lIfe to life forms.

Worship, technically speaking is about expressing respect. The purpose of representations of , lets start with Jesus, is just to
readily recall Jesus, to glance at Him whom we love and revere, just as any human being who has loved ones would put their
pictures where they can see it always and kiss it tenderly even press unto their chest this gestures to an extents satiates the
desires which we want to express to the loved one where he/she physically present. It is a thing that is human in origin and very
okay when the emotions expressed are licit and proper.

Because Jesus is not only my Sweet Lover but my Divine Lord and Master my emotions towards Him extends to worship (the
respect due Him as the Living Word of God made flesh). I am not only satisfied with conceding His Lordship over my life in the
deepest recesses of my poor heart i am naturally moved to express it by marks of respcet like bowing, prosatration, kneeling as His Apostles actually did like after He calmed the storm. I cant for Heaven where i will see Him face to Face i wanna start now.

The picture or statue of Jesus is NOT Jesus in a cement/plastic form just a representation which has the potential of aiding my
relationship via the senses which i have. I treat it with affection and respect just as i ould not let my mum's picture lying on the
floor for less that a second.

When God spoke about not making images and worshipping them He simply meant Idolatary, which we see in traditional worship as we have it in Nigerian cultures. The same God will have Images made for His Temple see Deuteronomy where He dictated to Moses howe he Lord's temple should be.

Lets leave the Blessed Virgin Mary, The Monstrance fetc for another thread.

I'd advise you to take the time and go through the thread properly. You have shown scant regard for your fellow posters' points of view.

@ No2Atheism, thanks for the heads up, but I have a good relationship with my bible. I just don't trawl through it looking for ways to justify condemning how others choose to serve God.

Do you think we are doing this to condemn people? It is our duty as Christians to stand up for truth and to expose errors in all forms. Isn't that your duty as well?

There are fanatics in every religion, and it's the same for Catholics where some go a little too far and make it look like paganism. What ever, I just feel we should focus on our own personal relationship with God because in the end, that's all that matters.

I am not sure what bible you're reading but I'd urge you to study to show yourself approved of God. Christianity is not about getting comfortable, and minding your own business. Its about breaking down every demonic stronghold, and to liberate precious souls with the word of truth.

Pagan doctrines are being upheld by Roman Catholicism from a leadership point of view, which has no doubt manifested itself in the very practice of its members.

Do you want their blood to be on your shoulders?