This is a shoutout to @Bittertruthuass, who accused me of fraud and is claiming to have reported me to the police when she is the one who has taken my money without releasing the promised product to me.

Now I'm not accusing anybody of anything but when something walks like a duck and talks like a duck then maybe it's a duck. But since I like to see the good in people I'm throwing the floor open to her to come and defend herself. After all misunderstandings happen and can be straightened out with communication.

For a brief background, she claims to be selling Amazon gift cards here on Nairaland so I contacted her via email as to her prices. We agreed on a payment of N77,000 which I promptly made to the bank account she gave me. After this, I gave her screenshots of my account showing the debit and even went as far as calling the bank to retrieve the transaction reference number and sent it to her. This was over 24 hours ago and she still did not deliver the product in question, so I asked that if she wasn't going to deliver she should please refund me since it's a time sensitive issue (I need them today). That was when she started accusing me of fraud, insulting me and claiming that the police are looking for me and I should come down to the station. She even claimed that they had contacted my bank (Access) and I am being investigated which I know is a lie because I have been on the phone with Access since she started accusing me.

I won't post too many details because I don't want to embarrass anybody yet, after all it might be a genuine misunderstanding as unlikely as that is. @Bittertruthuass, please explain yourself or I will be forced to post our whole email conversation as well as my bank statement and reference number proving I have paid you here. If you don't like that kind of exposure, well it's in your hands.

If you're not listening then why are you still responding?

It's not by force after all.

I didn't know they'd changed the definition of "patriotism" to "blind fanaticism".

So much ignorance in this thread lol.

PastorAIO:


Madame Chaos, I opening thread for you o! Please don't ignorance me.

Oh sorry I just saw the thread! On anarcho-communism right?

Hmmm...I don't know how I'll relate it to religion. Or you could just email me...

Oh hello italo! I was wondering where you were.

I'm sure you've seen the response I gave to your counterarguments.

PastorAIO:


Who is this ChaosAttractor?

Me!

I'm new around here and I like debating. And writing. And eating.

Also I'd like to note that criticism of an institution is not criticism of an ideology. This thread is getting a little too personal.

For instance, I am an anarcho-communist but when people begin to criticize the USSR or Mao's China I don't automatically jump to defend them. The fact that I am a communist does not mean I must accept, excuse or deny everything that has been done in the name of communism.

Italo, your spiritual belief is not tied to the Catholic Church. After all, if we're going by the Bible it's not the church that will save you and the gospels warn many times to be wary of religious leaders. I find this insistence that the church can do no wrong rather disturbing.

italo:

Sorry the response is so late, my post was so long that the bot deleted it :/

https://www.nairaland.com/2940727/atheism-ancient-roots-not-modern/5#43290144

Sorry for the late response, I had to shorten the post drastically for Nairaland to accept it.

italo:


False! It was all the world. The African who sold their brothers and neighbours were not Catholic. The Arabian slave traders were not Catholic. The N Korean govt that still sends hundreds of thousands of its own citizens to labour camps is Atheistic, not Catholic. The US was never Catholic majority, the UK was not Catholic majority, France has had an anti-religious govt since the French Revolution almost 300 years ago.

Logical fallacy. Person A doing evil does not excuse Person B of participating in that evil. Or do you think that when you stand before the God you believe in that you'll say "Mr. So-and-so was also doing it so I have done nothing wrong"? Especially when the church as you claim is supposed to be a moral beacon.

This is why I linked to a source on chattel slavery and the Transatlantic slave trade, not slavery in general. Because if it was the latter I would simply have pointed you to the Bible where slavery is endorsed including branding/mutilation of slaves, beating them and treating them as second-class citizens. See Exodus 21:1, 21:20 and 21:32; Colossians 3:22; Titus 2:9. According to Paul's writings it was a "sin"/wrongdoing for African-American slaves to rise up against their masters or seek freedom.

I can overlook the endorsing of bonded/forced labour and indentured servitude in the Bible, after all it is a product of its time. What I will never condone or overlook are passages and statements that endorse chattel slavery which any student of history can tell you is one of the most egregious violations of human rights that humanity has come up with. Coupled with institutionalized racism in the transatlantic slave trade, which Catholic clergy also participated in. (For those who don't know, chattel slavery is a system in which a slave is considered his master's literal property. He or she is nothing more than another possession and the master is considered to own everything about them including any children they produce. This is the ideology that led to the enslaving of the black race because it was widely believed that black people were their owners' property right from birth or even conception, like farm animals).

Also, "Catholic-majority countries" is not equal to Catholic Church.

Good! Enjoy this blog post on papal bulls and other statements from the Vatican/Holy See regarding slavery. The Catholic Church has kept its history well, you should be able to Google each document mentioned and read them for yourself.
http://churchslavery..com.ng/
You'll also find a large helping of racism and xenophobia in there.

"Crusader King" is not equal to Catholic Church.

A Crusader King that was sent to fight for and with the endorsement of the church and Pope himself. When George Bush sent his generals to wage war in the Middle East did you also say that "general" is not equal to "Bush"? Do we not say that the United States is at war with Iraq, Afghanistan, etc? Please stop trying to deflect blame.

Besides, what's wrong in killing 3000 terrorists?
If Nigerian Army caught 3000 Boko Haram members in King Richards circumstances, what would you have them do?

Did you miss the part where there were literal children murdered in that massacre? I repeat, these were prisoners-of-war and refugees from the town of Acre that he had just sacked. He had them all murdered except the wealthy ones who could be ransomed, and historians' consensus is that at least one of his reasons was that he didn't want to be responsible for the extra mouths. As if they're the ones that called him all the way from England to come and attack their town and then complain that he cannot feed them.

Did you even stop to read what you're typing? This is blatant and callous xenophobia coming from somebody that is proclaiming his church as the most compassionate of all institutions. What happened to "Thou shalt not kill" and "turn the other cheek"? Hypocrisy in high places.

italo:

Biased article with bogus allegations. No proof...no one convicted...nothing! Just more like beer-parlour hateful allegations...'That woman na ashewo...' 'that man na tiff.'
To be continued...

Soooo what you're trying to say is that you don't have any sources or counterpoints to the allegations. You just feel that they're not true so we must take your word for it over that of a man that researched and published a whole book on his findings.

Here are some more articles with more sources on the topic:
http://americamagazine.org/content/all-things/vatican-bank-scandal-nobody-talking-about
http://americamagazine.org/issue/culture/follow-money

In fact Pope Francis himself is worried about and has taken action concerning these mere "beer-parlour hateful allegations", trying to clean up the Vatican Bank:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/aug/13/can-pope-francis-clean-up-gods-bank
(That last article is very long but it contains even more sources and historical scandals as well as the current Pope's efforts to audit and overhaul the bank).

italo:

You don't know what you're saying.
Al Azhar didn't gain university status until 1961. It was nothing more than a school of theology...a Madrassa. Till date, its stated goals are promoting Islam and Arabic. Is that the modern university system? No.

University of Bologna was the first university in the world. Even the word "university" is from Latin.

So why didn't you address the first school on the list? Ahvaz Jundishapur (the modern name for the Academy of Gundishapur) was an academy of medicine (and also of philosophy, as well as a research institute). In fact, according to the Cambridge History of Iran it was the most important medical center of the entire world in the 6th and 7th centuries AD, literally hundreds of years before the University of Bologna was even a dream in its founders' heads (established 1088).

This is exactly what I don't like. You have allowed yourself to be brainwashed and filled with white, Eurocentric history, championing the white man above everything. By the 8th and 9th centuries Arabic and Persian scholars like Al-Khwarizmi were revolutionizing the sciences and arts while Western thought was still languishing in the dark ages. And that's not even going into East Asia. Read about the House of Wisdom in Baghdad. Read about the Ancient Chinese who invented and experimented with gunpowder and firearms, paper and printing, compasses and hot air balloons literally centuries and in some cases millennia before the West approached that level of scientific thought. Let's not even go too far; let's come back to Africa and the University of Timbuktu which was established towards the end of the 10th century. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Timbuktu http://afrolegends.com/2009/09/04/timbuktu-the-worlds-first-and-oldest-university/

But keep praising the white man and his thievery of the ideas and inventions of people of colour around the world. Are you not ashamed to be using Latin as your benchmark of when a word came into existence? To keep contributing to the erasure of black and brown people's history? What kind of colonial mentality is this?

italo:

Hospice care is a type of care and philosophy of care that focuses on the palliation of a chronically ill, terminally ill or seriously ill patient's pain and symptoms, and attending to their emotional and spiritual needs. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hospice
Nowhere does your link say the Japanese did the bold.

Directly from the link:

Palliation:
"There are many accounts of monks attending to the sick and dying. In East Asia, temples have often acted as medical dispensaries, and monks with their knowledge of acupuncture have acted as physicians. In South and Southeast Asia, monks have had a deep knowledge of herbal medicines from living and surviving in the forest.

Emotional and spiritual needs:
"In these records, we can see that the caring for the dead becomes a religious exercise for the living."
"Monks tried to achieve mental unity with the dying person through group meditation, so that the dying person didn’t die alone. In general, there was a focus on creating an intersubjective experience (kanshu-kansei 間主観生／kanshu-taisei 間主体生) for everyone which benefited all."
"The origins of this practice go back before the Heian Period in rooms that were set aside for someone to reside before they died. This kind of room was called an “Abbey of Impermanence” (mujo-in 無常院). They were places where the dying were put not die but to prepare for death as a means to aid their personal realization. In the contemporary West, we can see that all the terminology surrounding death tries to be positive. However, in this ancient tradition, they were not afraid to challenge the dying with such terms as “impermanence.” "

If you want more: http://www.itmonline.org/arts/kampo.htm

Directly from that article:
"The first official classes in Chinese medicine in Japan are said to have been given by a Korean physician in 602 A.D. by order of the Empress Suiko (reign: 592-628 A.D.). During her reign, the Japanese court started sending envoys to China. Some of the Japanese visitors to China, being there primarily on diplomatic missions, brought back medical classics of China. In 701, the Taiho Ritsuryo Code (a series of edicts establishing a particular political and academic structure) was compiled and provided for, among many other things, establishment of a ministry of health (Ten'yakuryo; also translated as the Institute of Medicine). This Taiho Code, influenced by two visits to the Tang Imperial Court by the envoy Enichi, included a division devoted to the Chinese concept of yin-yang, one of the foundations of Chinese medical theories and other aspects of Chinese culture. The services of the health ministry were restricted to the royal court and aristocracy, while Buddhist temples took care of the poor, eventually including Chinese medicine. The Empress Komyo (701-760 A.D.) established a dispensary to supply free medicine to the needy in 730 A.D. The dispensary provided local Japanese herbs, but the method of using the herbs was already influenced by Chinese medical principles."

Before you call them primitive, note that (still from that article, you can read it yourself) the herbal formulas that Sino-Japanese medical researchers came up with over a millennium ago are approved for production and prescription by the modern Japanese Ministry of Health, and in fact are being mass-produced in factories now. And that is beside the fact that East Asia had developed schools of medicine, ministries of health, dispensaries of free medicines and socialist healthcare by the 8th century AD.

Please, tell me more about this "great" Catholic/Western "civilization"

Do yourself a favour and educate yourself on history beyond the white man and his white supremacist efforts.

italo:

There is no proof of the bold in your links...or anywhere else.

Did you even read the links? How can anyone open their mouth to say that Stephen Hawking, Alan Turing, Rosalind Franklin, Svante Arrhenius, Thomas Edison, Claude Berthollet, the Joliot-Curies, Ivan Pavlov, John Nash, Richard Feynman, Steven Weinberg, Elizur Wright (to name just a fraction of them!) did not lift humanity into 21st century? Oh sorry, I forgot, you would rather learn and recite the names of "saints" than the people whose work is responsible for your modern comforts.

And that list is not even counting the people who were agnostic or otherwise anti-religion.

I just want to note that I'm seeing all your responses, I'd like you to finish your counterarguments so I can reply to everything at once.

Is nobody going to challenge my post? All in the spirit of friendly debate of course.

italo:

1) It was Catholic-majority countries that specialized in chattel slavery.
http://scholar.library.miami.edu/emancipation/religion4.htm

2) It was a Crusader king, not the "barbarian", that decided to slaughter nearly three thousand refugees and prisoners of war including women and children.
http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/lionheart.htm

3) The Vatican Bank was a haven of tax evasion and money laundering for decades.
http://www.npr.org/2015/01/30/382374060/from-laundering-to-profiteering-a-multitude-of-sins-at-the-vatican-bank

4) The three oldest (two are still functioning) universities in the world are all in/from the Arab world
http://mentalfloss.com/article/18853/quick-10-10-oldest-still-functioning-universities-world

5) By the Heian period (9th century) the Japanese were carrying out palliative care and had rooms (mujo-in) set aside for the dying to prepare for and embrace death.
http://jsri.jp/English/ojo/round1/day1aft.html

6) Atheist, humanist and transhumanist thinkers dragged humanity kicking and screaming into the Information Age
http://www.alternet.org/belief/8-atheist-and-agnostic-scientists-who-changed-world
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_atheists_in_science_and_technology

But sure, let the Stockholm Syndrome speak through you...

katwalq:
All these humans with twisted sense of reasoning.. so if a court doesn't find the accused guilty and he actually committed the crime,it then means that he is innocent? Many people won't recognise crime n guilt even if it is staring them in the face. You all supporting him should wait till rape comes knocking on ur doors,hopefully the rapists bribes his way out, then you can come back and say he wasn't guilty cause the authorities thought otherwise. Even if you caught the rapist on top ur child. #istandagainstrape#.

Is it not mostly men in this thread spouting all this nonsense? I don't blame them, they're not the ones that have to live in fear of rape and harassment. The most you can do to appeal to their conscience is ask what they would say if it's their child and from what I'm reading many of them will accuse their own daughter instead of supporting her through her trauma.

braynchris:

Watch your words.. One of them is your father

Well my father is not dumb enough to be "seduced" by a fourteen-year-old girl. After all he does not lack self-control and moreover he is not attracted to children in mind or body. But if you want to claim such for yourself by all means go ahead

Double-post

braynchris:
Indeed the man is the victim in such cases even when girls that age seduce men twice their age RAPE is the word used, I pity the poor man ..BAD PIKIN NA BAD PIKIN JOOR

Clearly there are very stu.pid men in this country

Many of you in this thread have clearly never left the shores of Nigeria if you think Nigerians are the only ones entitled to condemn the accused in the court of public opinion.

Then again when you're quoting "reality" shows as your "proof" then no sane educated human being should be listening to your arguments anyway

The Catholic Church with its history is a disgrace to the human species to be quite frank.

I don't blame the laypeople sha, it's only Stockholm Syndrome that will drive someone to keep licking the anus of those that are shitting all over them.

rubsaphy:
whenever I see a rape case on nairaland, I just laugh and wonder what the mother of the victim is doing, if any modafuking idiot should try anything fun with my kid, hmmm oga i go waka for your destiny till you die your life go get k-leg.

^^Case in point.

Please don't say you're an atheist if what you really mean is that you're opposed to Abrahamic religion. It's so reactionary.

Rape culture is strong in this thread.

kingsilly:


Footyroom should help

Thanks man, that first goal was beautiful

But why the penalty

Whoa, slept off and missed the match. I expected this outcome sha.

Anyway I'm off to hunt for highlights.