UyiIredia:


I didn't say something that can't be observed I said something that doesn't exist in the material world. Your definition tallies with what I wrote.

actually you did say something that can't be observed from here as well as something that is not of the material world. But if you change it to something that doesn't exist in the material world then ok.

This leads to some further questions. Are angels material beings or immaterial beings? If they are immaterial then how come the bible is full of many encounters with angels. Surely that would mean that they were being observed from the material world.

By the way I haven't given any definition of my own yet so I don't know what you mean about tallying with my definition.

PastorAIO:


actually you did say something that can't be observed from here as well as something that is not of the material world. But if you change it to something that doesn't exist in the material world then ok.

No I didn't say that. Go back and read the statement you quoted.

UyiIredia:

No I didn't say that. Go back and read the statement you quoted.

Here it is again. Rub your eyes well before you read it, maybe there are some traces of sleep still distorting your vision. Jack Bizzle also quoted it and it is the same thing.

UyiIredia:


But they are not of the material world we are in that's why we say they are immaterial. Cause they can't be observed from here.

Then you forgot to answer about Angels, whether they are material or not, and how come they can be observed from here.

wiegraf:


http://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/feb/17/atheism-has-ancient-roots-claims-new-study

I'll add the likes of Nobunaga were essentially atheist

Still European, just older?

PastorAIO:
I think that the behaviour of the children in this other article can be explained already by other research (Milgram experiment) that proves that when told to do something by an authority figure people are more likely to lose their natural empathy. The common thread is that once you have an authority for your actions outside of yourself, you are more likely to be a nasty person, but when you take responsibility for your own actions you're more likely to be a kinder person.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOYLCy5PVgM

There are also some prison experiments in a similar vain IRRC, even worse ethically IMO

I guess they're god is like the warden in those experiments, or the doctors in these ones....

hehehe

Muafrika2:

Still European, just older?

Japanese, ~1500. And that era was a bit of a dark age for them due to warring.

they consider a few eras before that to be culturally superior, so there were likely quite a few 'prominent' folk before him that were atheistic as well

Anyways, it wasn't exactly controversial to them, seemingly at all sef, so I wouldn't expect too much info. then again, he did burn down some rather significant temples Apparently women and children included.... tbf to him though, they had insisted on mixing church and state for centuries. He well left alone (and encouraged) the sects that minded their business.

Note; above is essentially talking from my nyash, I'll need to confirm, so take with a grain of salt for now

CoolUsername:


You're the one showing signs of dishonesty here, wanting to be worshiped as a god is not atheism. It's just a more brutal version what Jesus did. He's making himself a deity and banning all competing religions. So how is that atheism?

You don't have proof that he's making himself a deity. But there's adequate proof that millions of North Koreans are Atheists and are indoctrinated with many things like propaganda against the west, love for the "Dear Leader," etc. I don't know how you're on this earth yet ignorant of these things. Are you saying to me that an Atheist cannot be indoctrinated? Please don't say it. Even your fellow Atheists know that's a daft opinion.

CoolUsername:


Your 'spiritual evidence' has no place in the real world, it doesn't do things that can't possibly be faked (such as regrowing the limbs of amputees), it doesn't feed the hungry, it doesn't stop children from being raped, it doesn't build cars, planes, or rockets, -at least scientific theories can be put into practice, thereby giving science credibility- and finally, it hasn't stopped climate change that threatens to end the world as we know it in the near future.

1. Miracles happen every day.

2. Science fails everyday.

CoolUsername:



From Google:
atheism - /ˈeɪθɪɪz(ə)m/
noun
1. disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.

Do you thoroughly read through your comments before posting? How can you call people that clearly worship a man as a deity atheists? It's disingenuous.

Prove that they worship him as deity! You're the disingenuous one. People who worship money, are they worshiping it as deity?

If you're so ignorant, grab a dictionary and look up "worship."

CoolUsername:



Maybe you should ask these guys:
hubpages.com/politics/Atheist-Charities-2

Maybe you should ask Mark Zuckerburg, who gave almost all he has to charity.

EDIT: Added a more credible source.

Show me where the meaning of Atheism says anything about charity, as you're attempting to do with worship.

There is nothing that says Atheism excludes worship and includes charity.

JackBizzle:



If he said that there is atheist philosophy, then is wrong.


When two atheists debate, the right person is decided by logic.

When two christians debate, there is no right person is either decided by the pastor, or convoluted logic of the bible

So who is right between you and plaetton according to logic?

JackBizzle:



This is where I agree with you. Atheism does not stop one from being indoctrinated.

The problem is that atheism itself is not indoctrination, however, christianity itself is indoctrination

Coolusername disagrees with you. He thinks atheism prevents people from indoctrination.

Who is right, according to logic?

JackBizzle:



Of course! Atheism is useless in theory!

What do you think I have been trying to say?


You don't believe in fairies. You are an a-fairiest. But do you refer to yourself as an "a-fairiest"? No. There is no need for the word "a-fairiest"- you are not defined by your disbelief in fairies. Why then should there be the word "atheist"?
===========================================================


That being said, christians were not the first to do hospices. So your original claim about the catholic church inventing hospices is a lie.

Who invented hospices then? Your village Atheists?

PastorAIO:


Here it is again. Rub your eyes well before you read it, maybe there are some traces of sleep still distorting your vision. Jack Bizzle also quoted it and it is the same thing.



Then you forgot to answer about Angels, whether they are material or not, and how come they can be observed from here.

Angels live in the spiritual realm that can be seen. When they manifest in our realm they are observed like any other thing.

UyiIredia:

Angels live in the spiritual realm that can be seen. When they manifest in our realm they are observed like any other thing.

UyiIredia:


But they are not of the material world we are in that's why we say they are immaterial. Cause they can't be observed from here.

So when we observe them are they material or immaterial?

Is the spiritual realm material or immaterial?

Are you saying that there is a spiritual realm that can be seen, and then a spiritual realm that cannot be seen?

italo:


Who invented hospices then? Your village Atheists?

No one.

italo:


Coolusername disagrees with you. He thinks atheism prevents people from indoctrination.

Who is right, according to logic?

He is wrong of course

PastorAIO:


So when we observe them are they material or immaterial?

Is the spiritual realm material or immaterial?

Are you saying that there is a spiritual realm that can be seen, and then a spiritual realm that cannot be seen?

Not necessarily. Sometimes they can be observed in their spiritual form and sometimes can manifest so anyone's sees them. The spiritual realm is unseen. End of story.

JackBizzle:


No one.

Lol...because you're ashamed to admit it was the Catholic Church.

UyiIredia:


Not necessarily. Sometimes they can be observed in their spiritual form and sometimes can manifest so anyone's sees them. The spiritual realm is unseen. End of story.

So a spiritual form can be material?

italo:



Lol...because you're ashamed to admit it was the Catholic Church.

Who invented fire? Who invented bow and arrows?

Popularizing something that was already common in different cultures across the world does not give the catholic church the right to claim that it invented it.

Stop lying for the catholic church

JackBizzle:



Who invented fire? Who invented bow and arrows?

Popularizing something that was already common in different cultures across the world does not give the catholic church the right to claim that it invented it.

Stop lying for the catholic church

Prove that hospices were existing before the Catholic Church invented them.

Prove that any single body runs more schools, hospitals and charities than the Catholic Church.

Prove that any other organization has contributed 5% of what the Catholic Church has contributed to western civilization.

italo:


Prove that hospices were existing before the Catholic Church invented them.

Prove that any single body runs more schools, hospitals and charities than the Catholic Church.

Prove that any other organization has contributed 5% of what the Catholic Church has contributed to western civilization.

You are still claiming that the catholic church invented hospices? You are such a liar. Do you think you are bringing anyone to christ with your catholic propaganda?


Like a deceitful politician, you only talk about the good side of your party (the catholic church) while denying or omitting the bad side.


-the crusades and mass murders
-the systematic use of torture and torture devices
- the involvement in and support of slavery
-the cover ups of pedophile priests
-the suppression of scientific knowledge
-the bribery, corruption and murders within papal politics
-the embezzlement and fraud within the vatican bank

JackBizzle:



You are still claiming that the catholic church invented hospices? You are such a liar. Do you think you are bringing anyone to christ with your catholic propaganda?


Like a deceitful politician, you only talk about the good side of your party (the catholic church) while denying or omitting the bad side.


-the crusades and mass murders
-the systematic use of torture and torture devices
- the involvement in and support of slavery
-the cover ups of pedophile priests
-the suppression of scientific knowledge
-the bribery, corruption and murders within papal politics
-the embezzlement and fraud within the vatican bank

So you cant:

Prove that hospices were existing before the Catholic Church invented them.

Prove that any single body runs more schools, hospitals and charities than the Catholic Church.

Prove that any other organization has contributed 5% of what the Catholic Church has contributed to western civilization.

JackBizzle:


That is quite idiotic, for lack of a better word.

For a non idiot illogical shouldn't be a difficult word to find. I did ask if there was any difference at the beginning of my post.

Disbelief and belief are opposites. How can you then turn a disbelief into a belief? How can a disbelief in God become a belief?


Belief entails a positive thought towards something - e.g. "I believe in Manchester United", "We believe in strenght"

It is ridiculous to then have belief entailing a positive thought towards a negative/nothing e.g. "I believe in not Manchester united"

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just because something is grammatically correct, it does not follow that it is also logically correct.


I do not believe in God's existence- logically and grammatically correct
I disbelieve in God's existence- logically and grammatically correct
I believe in the non-existence of God- grammatically correct but illogical.

OK. Do you believe in the quote below? In your views doesn't it sum up what all who claim to be an atheist should believe in? Can a child or even an adult be taught and trained to believe in such? Doest the below equate to a creed?

All things can be explained as the product of unintentional, undirected, purposeless evolution. No truth claim is acceptable if it cannot be subjected to scientific scrutiny.

If you claim not to hold these believe then I must ask for the basis of your rejection or disbelief in God.

italo:


So you cant:

Prove that hospices were existing before the Catholic Church invented them.

Prove that any single body runs more schools, hospitals and charities than the Catholic Church.

Prove that any other organization has contributed 5% of what the Catholic Church has contributed to western civilization.

Make up your mind bros...

When your clergy are rap1ng little boys and aiding the mafia, it is not the Church's doing

When they give to charity, suddenly it is the Church's doing

wiegraf:


Make up your mind bros...

When your clergy are rap1ng little boys and aiding the mafia, it is not the Church's doing

When they give to charity, suddenly it is the Church's doing

Italo is a slave for the catholic church. He will hype anything positive for the church while denying all the negatives

Geist:

OK. Do you believe in the quote below? In your views doesn't it sum up what all who claim to be an atheist should believe in? Can a child or even an adult be taught and trained to believe in such? Doest the below equate to a creed?

All things can be explained as the product of unintentional, undirected, purposeless evolution. No truth claim is acceptable if it cannot be subjected to scientific scrutiny.

If you claim not to hold these believe then I must ask for the basis of your rejection or disbelief in God.

The quote is absolute and it is wrong. Not all atheists are scientists and science cant prove everything.

JackBizzle:


The quote is absolute and it is wrong. Not all atheists are scientists and science cant prove everything.

I also asked for the basis of your disbelief in a God or gods
Edit: you also dodged the first sentence of the quote. Please address it.

JackBizzle:


He is wrong of course

Just for the record this is what I said:

"It (atheism) allows people break out of indoctrination and
have an identity of their own"

I did not say that a person cannot be indoctrinated into atheism, I only stated that atheism is a product of breaking out of religious indoctrination and thinking for oneself.

Italo just took what I said out context for his/her own nefarious purposes.

Bye-bye!

Please don't say you're an atheist if what you really mean is that you're opposed to Abrahamic religion. It's so reactionary.

CoolUsername:


Just for the record this is what I said:

"It (atheism) allows people break out of indoctrination and
have an identity of their own"

I did not say that a person cannot be indoctrinated into atheism, I only stated that atheism is a product of breaking out of religious indoctrination and thinking for oneself.

Italo just took what I said out context for his/her own nefarious purposes.

Bye-bye!

OK. So Atheism doesn't prevent indoctrination.

Religion also allows people to break free from Atheistic indoctrination.

Mention one Atheist who is/was not indoctrinated with something. Just one.

wiegraf:


Make up your mind bros...

When your clergy are rap1ng little boys and aiding the mafia, it is not the Church's doing

When they give to charity, suddenly it is the Church's doing

Let me educate you.

When the official Church teaching and policy promotes and supports giving to charity, setting up charity homes etc...and members, arms of the Church and the whole Church itself do what the Church asks, with the full legal, spiritual and material backing of the whole universal Church...then we can rightly say: The Catholic Church is the biggest Charity in the world.

But when the official teaching and laws of the Church prohibits see outside of marriage, yet members, top officials of the Church defy the Church and rape little boys, we cannot say the Catholic Church is raping little boys. We say Fr X or Msgr Y is raping little boys in contravention of the laws of the Church.

When a Governor or minister is stealing money, you don't say Nigeria is stealing money.

JackBizzle:


Italo is a slave for the catholic church. He will hype anything positive for the church while denying all the negatives

Which negative did I deny?

Show me where the Catholic Church ever taught a negative?

You're just trying to dodge from the uselessness of Atheism to humanity by attacking the Church. The Church didn't make Atheism useless and destructive to humanity.

The Catholic Church with its history is a disgrace to the human species to be quite frank.

I don't blame the laypeople sha, it's only Stockholm Syndrome that will drive someone to keep licking the anus of those that are shitting all over them.