₦airaland Forum

Primesky:
Jesus never asked anybody to that. We have no need of lying to defend the truth. Whether you believe it or not, the truth cannot be gainsayed and nothing can be done against the truth.

If I argue with you, it is not because I must win the argument, which unfortunately, is what most atheists do. My aim is that you get saved. That shouldn't make me do everything at all cost including lying, twisting, cursing and insulting all in a bid to win an argument.

I accept that not all persons will accept the truth I present, which is rather unfortunate for such. However, I will not by wisdom of man try to convince any man. The Holy Spirit of God is able to do that with the simple undeniable truth of God's word.

That said, I want you to know that Jesus Christ loves you and He's willing to save you today if you come to Him. Shalom.

Primesky:
OK, that's your decision. But Jesus didn't ask us to win arguments and quarrels, rather, He asked us to win souls.

adjoviomole:
Don't worry your brothers will be happy to contribute.

johnydon22:
https://www.google.com.ng/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://tikaboo.com/library/The%2520Seventh%2520Book%2520Of%2520Moses.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwj-2uP3wbnbAhXHUBQKHXyhCdoQFjAAegQICBAB&usg=AOvVaw3W6s3Gb1YX8Hcjc2UECTDf

johnydon22:
So your uncle went mad?

Your uncle took weed

To further confirm: here is another screenshot of the PDF version I'm reading now.

Avatar the last airbender noni

hopefulLandlord:
Funny enough there are atheists that accept the supernatural exists. what these theists don't know is that saying the supernatural exists doesn't automatically make whatever supernatural entity they conjure up real just like accepting New York is real doesn't mean one must accept Spiderman is real. That someone believes the titanic did sink doesn't mean the person would automatically accept Jack and Rose were real

luvmijeje:
Hmmmm, death and hell were thrown into the lake of fire. Op, the day you realize the book of Revelation was a vision given to an unknown John , the faster you will get to know, everything written in there are all symbolism.

What do I mean? In the same book of Revelation 12, there's a description of a fiery red dragon. So have you ever seen or heard of a dragon vomiting flood enough to carry a ant talk less of a woman? So what does that tells you?

SO what makes you think, death and hell being swallow up doesn't signified something else?

kovah:
having a strong belief in something dat outputs frantic opinions dat can lead to just one death is wrong...But note not all Muslims r frantics or Christians r devoted encapsuled or atheists go about in forums looking to prove others dat they r intellectual superior Cos of their belief....Have u belief quietly

kovah:
No belief system should be castigated...

HOW THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH CREATED ISLAM

What I'm going to tell you is what I learned in secret briefings in the Vatican when I was a Jesuit priest, under oath and induction.


A Jesuit cardinal named Augustine Bea showed us how desperately the Roman Catholics wanted Jerusalem at the end of the third century. Because of its religious history and its strategic location, the Holy City was considered a priceless treasure.



A scheme had to be developed to make Jerusalem a Roman Catholic city. The great untapped source of manpower that could do this job was the children of Ishmael.

The poor Arabs fell victim to one of the most clever plans ever devised by the Powers of Darkness.

Early Christians went everywhere with the gospel, setting up small churches, but they met heavy opposition.

Both the Jews and the Roman government persecuted the believers in Christ to stop their spread.


But the Jews rebelled against Rome, and in 70 A.D. Roman armies under General Titus smashed Jerusalem and destroyed the great Jewish temple which was the heart of Jewish worship - in fulfillment of Christ's prophecy in Matthew 24:2.

On this holy place, where the temple once stood, the Dome of the Rock Mosque stands today as Islam's second most holy place.

Sweeping changes were in the wind. Corruption, apathy, greed, cruelty, perversion, and rebellion were eating at the Roman Empire, and it was ready to collapse. The persecution against Christians was useless, as they continued to lay down their lives for the gospel of Christ.


The only way Satan could stop this thrust was to create a counterfeit "Christian" religion to destroy the work of God.

The solution was in Rome. Their religion had come from ancient Babylon, and all it needed was a face-lift. This didn't happen overnight, but began in the writings of the "early church fathers".


It was through their writings that a new religion would take shape. The statue of Jupiter in Rome was eventually called St. Peter, and the statue of Venus was changed to the Virgin Mary. The site chosen for its headquarters was on one of the seven hills called "Vaticanus" - the place of diving serpent where the satanic Temple of Janus stood.


The great counterfeit religion was Roman Catholicism, called "Mystery, Babylon the Great, the Mother of Harlots and Abominations of the Earth" (Revelation 17:5). She was raised up to block the gospel, slaughter the believers in Christ, establish religions, create wars, and make the nations drunk with the wine of her fornication as we will see.

Three major religions have one thing in common - each has a holy place where they look for guidance. Roman Catholicism looks to the Vatican as the Holy City. The Jews look to the wailing wall in Jerusalem, and the Muslims look to Mecca as their Holy City.

Each group believes that they receive certain types of blessings for the rest of their lives for visiting their holy place.

In the beginning, Arab visitors would bring gifts to the "House of God" and the keepers of the Kaaba were gracious to all who came. Some brought their idols and, not wanting to offend these people, their idols were placed inside the sanctuary.

It is said that the Jews looked upon the Kaaba as an outlying tabernacle of the Lord, with veneration until it became polluted with idols.


In a tribal contention over a well (Zamzam) the treasure of the Kaaba and the offerings that pilgrims had given were dumped down the well and it was filled with sand; it disappeared.

Many years later Adb al-Muttalib was given visions telling him where to find the well and its treasure. He became the hero of Mecca, and he was destined to become the grandfather of Muhammad.


Before this time, Augustine became the bishop of North Africa and was effective in winning Arabs to Roman Catholicism, including whole tribes. It was among these Arab converts to Catholicism that the concept of looking for an Arab prophet developed.


Muhammad's father died from illness, and sons born to great Arab families in places like Mecca were sent into the desert to be suckled and weaned and spend some of their childhood with Bedouin tribes for training and to avoid the plagues in the cities.



After his mother and grandfather also died, Muhammad was with his uncle when a Roman Catholic monk learned of his identity and said:

"Take your brother's son back to his country and guard him against the Jews, for by God, if they see him and know of him that which I know, they will construe evil against him. Great things are in store for this brother's son of yours."

The Roman Catholic monk had fanned the flames for future Jewish persecutions at the hands of the followers of Muhammad.



The Vatican desperately wanted Jerusalem because of its religious significance, but was blocked by the Jews.


Another problem was the true Christians in North Africa who preached the gospel. Roman Catholicism was growing in power, but would not tolerate opposition. Somehow the Vatican had to create a weapon to eliminate both the Jews and the true Christian believers who refused to accept Roman Catholicism. Looking to North Africa, they saw the multitudes of Arabs as a source of manpower to do their dirty work.


Some Arabs had become Roman Catholic, and could be used in reporting information to leaders in Rome. Others were used in an underground spy network to carry out Rome's master plan to control the great multitudes of Arabs who rejected Catholicism.


When "St. Augustine" appeared on the scene, he knew what was going on. His monasteries served as bases to seek out and destroy Bible manuscripts owned by the true Christians.


The Vatican wanted to create a messiah for the Arabs, someone they could raise up as a great leader, a man with charisma whom they could train, and eventually unite all the non-Catholic Arabs behind him, creating a mighty army that would ultimately capture Jerusalem for the pope.



In the Vatican briefing, Cardinal Bea told us this story:

A wealthy Arabian lady who was a faithful follower of the pope played a tremendous part in this drama. She was a widow named Khadijah. She gave her wealth to the church and retired to a convent, but was given an assignment.


She was to find a brilliant young man who could be used by the Vatican to create a new religion and become the messiah for the children of Ishmael.



Khadijah had a cousin named Waraquah, who was also a very faithful Roman Catholic, and the Vatican placed him in a critical role as Muhammad's advisor. He had tremendous influence on Muhammad.



Teachers were sent to young Muhammad and he had intensive training. Muhammad studied the works of St. Augustine, which prepared him for his "great calling". The Vatican had Catholic Arabs across North Africa spread the story of a great one who was about to rise up among the people and be the chosen one of their God.


While Muhammad was being prepared, he was told that his enemies were the Jews and that the only true Christians were Roman Catholic. He was taught that others calling themselves Christians were actually wicked impostors and should be destroyed. Many Muslims believe this.


Muhammad began receiving "divine revelations" and his wife's Catholic cousin Waraquah helped interpret them. From this came the Koran. In the fifth year of Muhammad's mission, persecution came against his followers because they refused to worship the idols in the Kaaba.


Muhammad instructed some of them to flee to Abysinnia, where Negus, the Roman Catholic king, accepted them because Muhammad's views on the virgin Mary were so close to Roman Catholic doctrine. These Muslims received protection from Catholic kings because of Muhammad's revelations.


Muhammad later conquered Mecca and the Kaaba was cleared of idols.



History proves that before Islam came into existence, the Sabeans in Arabia worshiped the moon-god who was married to the sun-god. They gave birth to three goddesses, who were worshipped throughout the Arab world as "Daughters of Allah". An idol excavated at Hazor in Palestine in the 1950s shows Allah sitting on a throne with the crescent moon on his chest.


Muhammad claimed he had a vision from Allah and was told:

"You are the messenger of Allah."

This began his career as a prophet and he received many messages. By the time Muhammad died, the religion of Islam was exploding. The nomadic Arab tribes were joining forces in the name of Allah and his prophet, Muhammad.


Some of Muhammad's writings were placed in the Koran, others were never published. They are now in the hands of high ranking holy men (Ayatollahs) in the Islamic faith.

When Cardinal Bea shared this information with us in the Vatican, he said:

"These writings are guarded because they contain information that links the Vatican to the creation of Islam."

Both sides have so much information on each other that, if exposed, it could create such a scandal that it would be a disaster for both religions.



In their "holy" book, the Koran, Christ is regarded as only a prophet. If the pope was his representative on Earth, then he also must be a prophet of God. This caused the followers of Muhammad to fear and respect the pope as another "holy man".


The pope moved quickly and issued bulls granting the Arab generals permission to invade and conquer the nations of North Africa.



The Vatican helped to finance the building of these massive Islamic armies in exchange for three favors:

Eliminate the Jews and Christians (the latter were regarded as true believers, which they called infidels)

Protect the Augustinian monks and Roman Catholics

Conquer Jerusalem for "His Holiness" in the Vatican

As time went by, the power of Islam became tremendous.



Jews and true Christians were slaughtered, and Jerusalem fell into their hands. Roman Catholics were never attacked, nor were their shrines, during this time. But when the pope asked for Jerusalem, he was surprised at their denial!



The Arab generals had such military success that they could not be intimidated by the pope - nothing could stand in the way of their own plan.


Under Waraquah's direction, Muhammad wrote that Abraham offered Ishmael as a sacrifice. The Bible says that Isaac was the sacrifice, but Muhammad removed Isaac's name and inserted Ishmael's name. As a result of this and Muhammad's vision, the faithful Muslims built a mosque, the Dome of the Rock, in Ishmael's honor, on the site of the Jewish temple that was destroyed in 70 A.D. This made Jerusalem the second most holy place in the Islamic faith.



How could they give such a sacred shrine to the pope without causing a revolt?


The pope realized what they had created was out of control when he heard they were calling "His Holiness" an infidel. The Muslim generals were determined to conquer the world for Allah, and now they turned toward Europe.


Islamic ambassadors approached the pope and asked for papal bulls to give them permission to invade European countries. The Vatican was outraged; war was inevitable. Temporal power and control of the world was considered the basic right of the pope.



He wouldn't think of sharing it with those whom he considered heathens.









The pope raised up his armies and called them "crusades" to hold back the children of Ishmael from grabbing Catholic Europe.



The crusades lasted for centuries and Jerusalem slipped out of the pope's hands. Turkey fell, and Spain and Portugal were invaded by Islamic forces. In Portugal, they called a mountain village "Fatima" in honor of Muhammad's daughter, never dreaming it would become world famous.


Years later, when the Muslim armies were poised on the islands of Sardinia and Corsica, to invade Italy, there was a serious problem. The Islamic generals realized they were too far extended. It was time for peace talks. One of the negotiators was Francis of Assisi.



As a result, the Muslims were allowed to occupy Turkey in a "Christian" world, and the Catholics were allowed to occupy Lebanon in the Arab world. It was also agreed that the Muslims could build mosques in Catholic countries without interference, as long as Roman Catholicism could flourish in Arab countries.


Cardinal Bea told us in Vatican briefings that both the Muslims and Roman Catholics agreed to block and destroy the efforts of their common enemy: Bible-believing Christian missionaries.



Through these concordats, Satan blocked the children of Ishmael from a knowledge of scripture and the truth.


The Islamic community looks on the Bible-believing missionary as a devil who brings poison to the children of Allah. This explains years of ministry in those countries with little results.


The Vatican also engineers a campaign of hatred between the Muslim Arabs and the Jews. Before this, they had co-existed peacefully. A light control was kept on Muslims - from the Ayatollah, down through the Islamic priests, nuns, and monks.


The next plan was to control Islam. In 1910, Portugal was going Socialistic. Red flags were appearing and the Catholic Church was facing a major problem. Increasing numbers were against the Church.


The Jesuits wanted Russia involved, and the location ofthis vision at Fatima could play a key part in pulling Islam to the Mother Church. In 1917, the Virgin appeared in Fatima. "The Mother of God" was a smashing success, playing to overflow crowds. As a result, the Socialists of Portugal suffered a major defeat.


Roman Catholics worldwide began praying for the conversion of Russia, and the Jesuits invented the novenas to Fatima, which they could perform throughout North Africa, spreading good public relations to the Muslim world.



The Arabs thought they were honoring the daughter of Muhammad, which is what the Jesuits wanted them to believe.


As a result of the vision of Fatima, Pope Pius XII ordered his Nazi army to crush Russia and the Orthodox religion, and make Russia Roman Catholic. A few years after he lost World War II, Pope Pius XII startled the world with his phony "dancing Sun" vision to keep Fatima in the news. It was great religious show biz and the world swallowed it.



Not surprisingly, Pope Pius was the only one to see this vision.


As a result, a group of followers has grown into a Blue Army worldwide, totaling millions of faithful Roman Catholics ready to die for the Blessed Virgin. But we haven't seen anything yet. The Jesuits have their Virgin Mary scheduled to appear four or five times in China, Russia, and major appearance in the U.S.


What has this got to do with Islam?



Note Bishop Sheen's statement:

"Our Lady's appearances at Fatima marked the turning point in the history of the world's 350 million Muslims. After the death of his daughter, Muhammad wrote that she 'is the most holy of all women in Paradise, next to Mary.'



He believed that the Virgin Mary chose to be known as Our Lady of Fatima as a sign and a pledge that the Muslims who believe in Christ's virgin birth, will come to believe in his divinity."

Bishop Sheen pointed out that the pilgrim virgin statues of Our Lady of Fatima were enthusiastically received by Muslims in Africa, India, and elsewhere, and that many Muslims are now coming into the Roman Catholic Church.



DR. ALBERTO RIVERA

1988




References

Double Cross, Chick Publ, pgs 13,14.

The Meaning Of The Glorious Koran, Pickthall, Mentor Books, pgs 220,221.

Muhammad, Martin Lings, pgs 81-84.

TributeLifeStyl:
If God is not existing, such arguments won't exist

tevinsolt:
Knowing the distinction tells a science literate (Which from our discussion so far as shown, you're not) whether you know what you're talking or not.

These fields of knowledge are interwoven but each still maintain their uniqueness.
In kinematics for example, data that's obtained by observation and experimentation using lab models is obtained by a function in Mathematics.
Engineering and technology are applications of both approach.

The scientific method is an approach of observing the real world.
Observation - Questions - Hypothesis (tentative explanation) - Experiment - Theory ( tested explanation)



Have you seen it yourself? again you've shown your hypocrisy by believing other men's work and accepting their claims as the truth. Have the courage to apply the same standard all through.
The earth isn't exactly spherical. The shape is bulged.


Lol you have no belief. Listen to yourself..... You've been reading too much of these internet pseudo intellectual atheistic and agnostic nonsense.

You're lack of belief is what?
And the "knowledge" you claim have came from where.... Let me guess other Men?

Unlike you I understand that most often than not, Knowledge of anything is passed down generation to generation. Knowledge of Language, History, Mathematics, science, applied Science, philosophy, Music and art.
So yes I believe other humans (shocking isn't it). If you don't, such a sad life you live buddy.

tevinsolt:
It's obvious you only argue for its sake. What I told you, I bet you've fact checked non.
But that aside
Learn the distinction between Math, Science, And Technology. There's a reason why the acronym (STEM) exists.
Show me without a doubt that the Earth is spherical.
I'll save you the energy. There's more and better evidence to support the Earth is a globe (not exactly spherical) and not flat. Not that there aren't evidence that might suggest a flat earth. An Individual could claim based on what they see that the earth is flat.
But then at the end of the day neither you or I have seen thbe Earth from vantage point to absolutely say this what it looks like.

I'm not even gonna respond to this ( An intellectual would ask.....ok you claim to have evidence, show me your evidence. But you rather and again jumped to conclusions.)

you've been going on and on about "scientific proven fact"

Whatever you believe must be more sensible than theism. So where are the proven facts that your held beliefs on God and religion is true?

tevinsolt:
Mr.
Mathematics and Logic are provable because they deal with real values, numbers. 1+1 = 2 any where in the universe. Pi = 3.14 is a constant. The theory of Evolution isn't, even though there's good body of evidence to support it rather than not.

Science deals with empirical evidence. In science data must be testable, falsifiable and not absolute. Science employs Mathematics, Language to carry out the scientific approach.

You sir, know not what you talk about, You have the internet at your disposal please use it.
It's useless going over this matter when your check yourself using a reliable source online.

About proving the Bible as the revelation of God? I'm sorry I can't do that, neither can I for any other book.
But I can use plausibility and evidence to show that.

tevinsolt:
How unfortunate. But let me help you out. I would say that I'm science literate than the Average person (BSc in Science).
Science is based on testable, falsifiable empirical evidence not "proven fact" as you claim.

And that's the beauty of science, knowledge is being built upon based on findings, meaning observation, studies and research and also Advancement in technology.

Induction and more so Deduction, is made from on observed data. This is how science is done.

Pythagoras Theorem is a proof in Mathematics not science. And how Ironic that you just used an Ancient person's work even more ancient than Jesus to back your opinion.

now show me why you even believe Pythagoras actually came up with the theorem to begin with?

olajide21:
There are enough signs Manifesting the existence of Allah around you. Look and think deep. Life does not exist by co incidence.

tevinsolt:
1. If that's the only conclusion you came to, then you're reasoning is flawed.

Two contradicting claims about a topic should at least generate two questions to determine truth.

(with this example of two contradicting claims)


Both claims can't be true at the same time, therefore

* One is either true and the other false.
or
* Both are wrong - (which suggests we know the truth)

2. yeah the weed must have been so strong and widely accessible, for those men to have written about the same thing at different locations at different times (spanning roughly a millennial).

3. Listen to yourself - "I think God, if you don't reveal yourself the way my mind wants, then you're not real"
But let's assume God grants this request ..... what kind of revelation would you satisfy your doubt?

4. Belief in Ancient and primitive men? You bet. There are different fields of knowledge, Science, Mathematics, Business, History, .... you name it. Our body of knowledge today rest on some of the works of so called "Ancient and primitive"

tevinsolt:
1. If that's the only conclusion you came to, then you're reasoning is flawed.

Two contradicting claims about a topic should at least generate two questions to determine truth.

(with this example of two contradicting claims)


Both claims can't be true at the same time, therefore

* One is either true and the other false.
or
* Both are wrong - (which suggests we know the truth)

tevinsolt:
No, the question you need to ask is ..... If God (and I assume in this particular case is the same) inspired these two books that's clearly in contradiction, wouldn't that mean God's confused?

And Also right off the bat, how can anyone prove a book is inspired by God? what I am asking is not for proof but evidence to show validity.

creedencity:
Quran his God's revelation to Muhammad (saw)
Bible is partly apostle paul's hoodwinked book.

tevinsolt:
Christianity predates Islam by a big stretch, If the witnesses when Jesus was on earth wrote their accounts approximately 600 years prior to even the Birth of Muhammad......why should a Christian convert to Islam?

Logically speaking isn't it wise to trust a person's immediate brother or friend's account about that person's life over some distant future relative or non relative?

alBHAGDADI:
We have 2 billion People who call themselves Christians. That leaves you with 5 billion people who reject the path of life. Their actions is part of why we are suffering. They chose Satan.

oyonu:
That's a choice made by man. He chosed the path of death and suffering

Deuteronomy 30:19 "I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:"

KendrickAyomide:
we were made to believe in the Bible that the world is Controlled by the devil and his Army.

KendrickAyomide:
That's a Dumb Reply

Gggg102:
even if all religions are scams, that in itself does not disprove god.

an argument for god existence is not limited to religion.


the atheist have no claim since they only don't believe.

you can't prove a no claim.

the atheist position if really they do not believe god's existence is that of sitting on a fence