₦airaland Forum

butterflyl1on:
What you have is not a default position. It is a deliberate shift. There is a difference.

A default position is not a position you take knowingly it is an position you have no control over like an automatic switch you just revert to that. This is not what atheists do.

Atheists ON THEIR OWN and IN THEIR OWN MAKING, reject the assertion that there is God so this rejection means that they Assert that there is no God.

It's not a default position so stop with the word play. It's a choice they consciously made and despite making such an assertion that there is no God, why then do they or should they still seek evidence for him?

Gggg102:
language plays a delicate role here.

if Bayo rules out every possibility of it happening, it means Bayo believes it never happened and can make an affirmative statement about it not happening.

if Bayo does not believe it happened, it still leaves a possibility of that John's statement to be true.
Bayo can only demand for proof and disprove false evidence.
if John does not convince Bayo, Bayo can dismiss the claim.
although Bayo cannot claim John's statement is untrue except he changes his position from 'I don't believe it's true' to 'I believe it is not true' or 'I know it is not true'

Gggg102:
in some old threads, I've seen atheist argue that atheism is the lack of belief in god.

they claim that they are atheists not because they 'believe there is no god' but because they 'do not believe there is god'

if it is so, this means they allow a possibility of the existence of god, and hence cannot assert that there is no god.

for example, John tells Bayo that David won a million Naira.

if Bayo states that this never happened, he is being affirmative and he is so sure that it never happened.

if Bayo states that he does not believe it happened, he is allowing a possibility of the event happening because a fact remains a fact regardless of belief (or unbelief). Bayo by virtue of his unbelief agrees that it is possible, but he does not think it happened.

if John repeated this claim to Seun, Bayo cannot say authoritatively that 'this is not true' but can only express his doubt.

for Bayo to state that John's statement is untrue, he has to have be present when the event was said to happen. but he only received information from John and can only disbelieve, allowing a possibility of the statement being true.

therefore atheist by their definition agree that god possibly exists, but only doubt because they have not been able to experience him.
they can't assert that there is no god.



cc hopefullandlord
dalaman
johnnydon22
...

KinzyeWriter:
Okay bro... This is how I understand things to be about being feeling there is God.... Looking at it from every corner of the world... A lot of beliefs, but there is one thing in common of all ... GOD... We're a being with this instinct of feeling there is someone somewhere that has created everything... Even though we have different imaginations.

Okay... Take for instance, this movie, "The gods must be crazy" those bush guys believe there is someone over everything even when nobody has tell them, the feeling that there is God is constant in everybody brain regardless of tribes culture or color.. There is God.

UyiIredia:
Noted dear.




I used to be Christian and flip-flopped given a memtal illness but the conversion was thorough. Even more so now. To convert me on an intellectual level that a religion is true like atheists I will demand hard evidence of God saying so. Otherwise, I just see men talking. True, religion has good bits and stuff I agree with but my mind is let God speak in a way to clear the air. Oton! N

But atheism couldn't convince me of no God because of the arguments for God from the human mind and intelligemt design of life seem to me too strong to counter.

The evidence you want is God coming is some physicsl way like speaking thrpugh clouds or using flying angels etc cosmic miracles tomdo so and perform creation. Atheists want hard evidence for God. I don't. I think the indirect evidence is strong enough. God will show up if and when he wants to. Some deists say he never will.

There's only God did it or Nature did it itself. We'll get into ling arguments I want to avoid but. I have written lits of answer on Quora and Nairaland on why I believe in God.

[https://www.quora.com/quote author=chemystery post=65442701]
Why no other possibilities? Why do you think there just must be a god?

Same as above. And more in my Quora answers on atheism and God.

butterflyl1on:
Lmao the famine was in Israel and it took STRANGERS to appease God?

You forget the Gibeonites were not part of Israel but refugees there. Gods covenant does not cover them. It took David doing what was needed (which was the burial of Saul, Jonathan and the other 7 members of the house of Saul) for the famine to cease.

The killing carried out by the Gibeonites was for a totally different matter as stated in scripture. Let me show you again



Their focus was on the house of Saul and not on the whole of Israel because Israel vowed to spare their lives but Saul was the one who went on a killing spree over them out of zeal so they wanted their vengeance by killing members of his house. This was an eye for an eye or the law of sowing or reaping. Saul sowed death upon the Gibeonites so his family reaped the same.

However, God did not lift the famine until after Saul, Jonathan, and the killed 7 were buried accordingly. It was Davida burial of Saul and Jonathans bones after recovery from where it was stolen to that made God now begin to hear their prayer.

Continue lying

butterflyl1on:
So this is what you understood from that scripture right?

Deceptive people everywhere


1. The Killings (not sacrifice) was not to God but was for revenge on the house of Saul based on what Saul did to them.

2. God NEVER asked them to carry out such an act.

3. God was angry at Saul and the land and it even says so In verse 1 of the same 2nd Samuel 21



There was famine in the land due to Gods anger and David went to God to find out why and God told him it was because of what Saul and his household did to the Gibeonites.

At this time Saul and his son Jonathan were both dead but not buried. It was until David buried their bones and the bones of the 7 who were killed that God lifted the famine from the land.

The killings were out of vengeance. The calamity was on the land because of Saul and his household. God lifted the famine after the late king Saul and his family were properly buried.

You can keep on lying to yourself.

butterflyl1on:
Sorry, Christians do not subscribe to that. We believe all humans are Gods CREATION not Children.

butterflyl1on:
Did God ask them to do so? Zeal without knowledge is foolishness. Can you show me where God told them to demand for those men and to kill them for him?

All the Gibeonites did was vengeance and not sacrifice to God.

From the very scriptures



They wanted to avenge the deaths they suffered at the hands of Saul so asked for members of Sauls household to be killed as well by their own hands OPENELY (before the Lord) at Gibeah of Saul (The very birthplace of Saul) This was to be a show of defiance and raw vengeance that they killed sauls family members in his own soil. The Lord's Chosen one (was king Saul).

This is simple enough.

butterflyl1on:
Those in hell are not Gods Children. They may be his creation but they certainly are not his children

butterflyl1on:
You people do love deception and lies.

The Gibeonites asked to be given those men so THEY CAN KILL THEM. Nowhere did God ask them to kill the men. Neither did God ask for any human sacrifice from them. They chose to do so as the immoral people they are who were outside the covenant of Israel.

Regarding the part about you saying God was appeased. Let me show you the whole verse from verse 10 to 14. Be mindful of the parts in bold.


10 Rizpah daughter of Aiah took sackcloth and spread it out for herself on a rock. From the beginning of the harvest till the rain poured down from the heavens on the bodies, she did not let the birds touch them by day or the wild animals by night. 11 When David was told what Aiah’s daughter Rizpah, Saul’s concubine, had done, 12 he went and took the bones of Saul and his son Jonathan from the citizens of Jabesh Gilead. (They had stolen their bodies from the public square at Beth Shan, where the Philistines had hung them after they struck Saul down on Gilboa.)13 David brought the bones of Saul and his son Jonathan from there, and the bones of those who had been killed and exposed were gathered up.
14 They buried the bones of Saul and his son Jonathan in the tomb of Saul’s father Kish, at Zela in Benjamin, and did everything the king commanded. After that, God answered prayer in behalf of the land.

If you were smart, you will see that the death of Saul and Jonathan as well as the killing of those men against the covenant of God desecrated the land and Gods back was turned to them. It was UNTIL David went and recovered the bodies of Saul, Jonathan from where it was stolen to and also the bodies of the men who were killed and left unburied and HE BURIED THEM ACCORDINGLY. the Bible clearly says and I quote

."

Stop lying and being my deceptive when the truth is right there for all to see.

butterflyl1on:
Done and dusted. My previous comments already tackled all this so I am not about to go down the same route again with you.

As for 2nd Samuel 21, the covenant of animal sacrifice was between God and Israel and not with people outside Israel so they could do what was not pleasing to God. Read verse 2 of the 2nd Samuel 21 which you posted.




You can see that it says clearly that the Gibeonites were not a part of Israel.

Go and peddle your lies and deceit elsewhere.

So hand over seven of his male descendants, and we will hang them before the Lord at Gibeah, the hometown of Saul, the Lord's chosen king.” “I will hand them over,” the king answered.
2 Samuel 21:6 GNT

David handed them over to the people of Gibeon, who hanged them on the mountain before the Lord—and all seven of them died together. It was late in the spring, at the beginning of the barley harvest, when they were put to death.
2 Samuel 21:9 GNT

Then they buried the bones of Saul and Jonathan in the grave of Saul's father Kish, in Zela in the territory of Benjamin, doing all that the king had commanded. And after that, God answered their prayers for the country.
2 Samuel 21:14 GNT

butterflyl1on:
All you liars for atheism You guys never get tired of twisting the truth even when it is in black and white and accessible to all.

Judges 11:36-40 KJV



This is the same Judges 11:39 in other translations from Bible hub.




You are posting from good news Bible

That mischevious Bible with a lot of missing scriptures found in other translations. If a Bible can have up to 16 important verses missing from it then it is a calamity.



Mat 17:21
Mat 18:11
Mat 23:14
Mar 7:16
Mar 9:44
Mar 9:46
Mar 11:26
Mar 15:28
Luk 17:36
Luk 23:17
Joh 5:4
Joh 7:53
Act 8:37
Act 15:34
Act 24:7
Act 28:29
Rom 16:24

All are missing from it yet are found in other translations. Abeg carry your GNB and waka

butterflyl1on:
Lmao the one twisting is trying to call me an Antichrist

Talk about deceptive deception specifically packaged in a deceptive way just to propagate deception as half truths.

34. When Jephthah went back home to Mizpah, there was his daughter coming out to meet him, dancing and playing the tambourine. She was his only child.

35. When he saw her, he tore his clothes in sorrow and said, “Oh, my daughter! You are breaking my heart! Why must it be you that causes me pain? I have made a solemn promise to the LORD , and I cannot take it back!”

36. She said to him, “If you have made a promise to the LORD , do what you said you would do to me, since the LORD has given you revenge on your enemies, the Ammonites.”

37. But she asked her father, “Do this one thing for me. Leave me alone for two months, so that I can go with my friends to wander in the mountains and grieve that I must die a virgin.”

38. He told her to go and sent her away for two months. She and her friends went up into the mountains and grieved because she was going to die unmarried and childless.

39. After two months she came back to her father. He did what he had promised the LORD , and she died still a virgin.

40. This was the origin of the custom in Israel that the young women would go away for four days every year to grieve for the daughter of Jephthah of Gilead.

Judges 11:34‭-‬40 GNB

butterflyl1on:
The term cardinal points did not start until 1846 so expecting to see "cardinal points " written in the bible is just silly to say the least. However it is known that the Earth has 4 major geo locations known as the NORTH, SOUTH, EAST AND WEST. Measurement of directions are plotted using these two locations and measurements of directions and locations are also plotted using corners so yes the Bible was correct and you are the one who either never understood that scripture or you are deliberately misrepresenting it (as usual)

The gospel of Luke termed it " IN AN INSTANT or IN A MOMENT IN TIME" This means The devil showed Jesus IN A FLASH these images. A moment IN TIME means in a flash or INSTANTENEOUSLY. this can only happen in a vision where everything is shown one in a compressed and quick manner yet we are able to process the very brief information into a lengthy detailed description.



Duh! Who counts your posts I said your threads and not your posts (but of course you would misrepresent my words again same way you are misrepresenting scripture)

butterflyl1on:
They said prove that the bible said the earth is flat and you brought those images

4 corners of the earth (NORTH, SOUTH, EAST AND WEST)

The devil showed Jesus that image IN AN INSTANT (according to the book of Luke). This was a vision and not a real occurrence physically.



Stop misquoting scripture to suite your lies.

walls01:
clearly you are over simplifying life. Is either you are ignoring the facts based on your belief or you dont like the idea god.

Let me quickly correct you there are more than 4000 gods on earth men did not made them up they are spirit beings.

Men are ignorant of who they really are.

I dont know the area you grew up, there are gods in every country. Like i expect from an atheists like you anything out of the ordinary is either false or bullshit. You have heard of charms before that defies logical reasoning, one of the common charm in my area is gun charm, if you are shot it bounce off the body. There are gods in India, America, England Togo everywhere in the world. From generation to generation people have gave different encounter with them. But of course from your own perspective they are all delusional.

Atheist is the worst religion on earth it is based solely on denial and manipulations, although they have no firm belief on anything they try to flaw other religion to make themselves right. The boost and brag that they uses logic or common sense to analyse facts and free themselves from religious bondage but in reality they drown in the world of denial and disbelief. If asked i do the world came into existence they quickly refer u to the bible to make up for there empty words.

Imagine saying the universe as always been because religious people talk about god. If u say the universe as always be is this not belief and not common sense.

And if i tell u people uses charm to fight communal battle in my state where bullets bounce of people chest would u not term me delusional and disbelief my claim. Everything out of the ordinary is rubbish to an atheist but i always ask them a very simple question, i ask u now dont hide under i dont know, without referring to any religion how do you think the universe came into existence using your common sense that atheist brag about, and do you think countless billion of people world wide that talk about gods (spirit beings) are all delusional?

walls01:
i will raise few points. First the bible did not say the earth is flat you assume it said that. Many contradictions in the bible is based on assumptions. If the earth is round as we know it why do scientist divide it into four parts, north, south east and west as though it is flat? ]

You also misunderstood the bible when he said every eye will see him, even if the earth is flat every eye cannot see him because the distance will be too far for the eye to see.

This is the rapture Jesus is referring to the spiritual part of man that is independent of time and space.

If you assume the universe has always been we are no longer talking of common sense but i will group you among a religion because that is a belief not a common sense.

If we are talking about the term beginning it is always difficult for man to comprehend because he has a beginning. It is a known fact that man have little knowledge of the earth because he found himself on it, and God from the start told man he is the creator.

The spirit of God testifies even today and i am a witness. Every other thing outside a creator is disbelief and lacks any evidence.

We cannot deny the fact we know nothing about the term in the beginning, which ever way u look at it God or no God. Trying to base on this limit of understanding has made man a foolish being, for how do you try to explain what you dont know, more like an ape trying to understand why men created computer

Ferisidowu:
Prove that the Bible teaches that the Earth of flat oooo

walls01:
firstly the bible in no verse say the earth is flat.

Again how do you know the bible is retranslated to suit modern belief?

First we have the first translation well kept safe then the dead sea scroll and other bible manuscripts.

Again i am surprise that u are one of those that believe in evolution,

according to what u said " if animals gain the right consciousness to think as human" this is a worse thinking than a fairy tale movie. How? Have man not been with animals for ages?.

Again let me draw your attention to life in itself, their is no secret part of the universe were life is formed from nothing.

Then again how is life formed?

According to science animals evolves just like your expectations. But from the simplest form of reasoning and from what science says is a gradual process, we would have seen different stages at least more than five stages of evolutionof animals thinking as man.

Evolution is one of the most absurd thinking of man till date, it makes no sense as it is outright nonsense. As a concluding point where and how did the first living thing evolve from?

sonofluc1fer:
Christ... I'm on 31...

sonofluc1fer:
That's how he scouts young men to brush up.
Scared of that paedo. I

Tohzara:
Lol. So butterflyl1on does it too. So I was right when I lumped the two fools in the same basket as the most disgusting clowns in nairaland's Christian camp. Pathetic and petty.

Tohzara:
Lol. So you're so interested you had to analyse my profile. It's quite funny I never considered you significant enough to do the same.

My personal text isn't meant for retãrds like you. Reading it will only result in you becoming more retãrded, as you obviously have. Now, get lost bitch.

walls01:
i know your point, but you are now saying thesame thing with me. People assume some are correct some are wrong, this just shows the inconsistency of man's world. Take the bible for example, one bible thousands of interpretations. Some people even translated that the bible said the earth is flat, whereas in Isaiah it states the earth is round. We cant just conclude based on one person logical way of reason. Man different way of analysing things is a mysery. Have you ask yourself why man is so different from any living thing

walls01:
i am not saying everything is believable, but we are hypocritical when it comes to the things of God. Even in villages thousand have narrated there encounter with the spirit beings. All over the world people worship one god or the other, this gods are also spirit beings. Are you just going to sit and conclude all are delusional? It is our state of mind that form belief and disbelief. When u think one is guilty no manner of evidence can change this.
My conclusion all men words and judgment should be taken as a pinch of salt

walls01:
how can you tell when one is lying? You thought with your mind you can assume what others are thinking. Man not because you cant do a thing dont mean nobody in the word can