SlayerForever:
It is yet an Englishman in the person of Crow that said it is Anthony and I'm sticking with that.

SlayerForever:
How many writers who said Ndoki came from Isedeni or Ebeni-toru in the central Delta have had their spurious claims thrown out. Write yours. And I write mine.

Andoni is not Idoni. Andoni is simply Anthony. I'm sure you are appreciative. You can thank me later.

Ekealterego:
Your frustrations stem from the fact that I called out your subtle attempt to inject Ijaw into Andonni history even when it was all based on illusions.

ChinenyeN:
Anyhow, get out of my face, owhno. Have a seat somewhere and stop wasting SlayerForever's so far great attempt at providing defensible materials in this thread. If you want me to ever respond to you again in good faith on this forum, then earn the benefit of the doubt in my eyes, owhnoghowhno nnu la gh. I gala di l'ikohnu nkohnu du gbuo.

SlayerForever:
Andoni is not a time worn derivative of Idoni.

SlayerForever:
The ancestors of the Bonny people were from Igbo land. He bore an Igbo name. Alagbanye was forwarded to Glyn as well as Opobo as likely ancestors circa 1880.

SlayerForever:
In light of forehand knowledge Alagbanye is open to be broken down or explained sort of by any scholar or writer approaching the subject using whatever type of analysis of choice. Nobody alive now was there when the ancestors came, so there's a degree of freedom of interpretation one has in deciphering the name.

Ofodirinwa:
You're talking about Nigeria where the English language died. I'm talking about the English language. North is a direction. I don't think this is something you and I can debate because if you don't want to google it I'll google it for you and show you. Northern Igbo Hinterland, in english means 'part of Igboland that's at a higher latitude than the part I'm referencing'.

I'm not trying to fight you, just listen. North is a direction like left and right. Please don't say north isn't a direction in public.

SlayerForever:
How did an Ngwa ancestor who was wholly and completely Igbo in existence go from Alagbanye in 1800s to Alagbariye 200 years later?

SlayerForever:
What is the difference between Agbayi in Ngwa today and Agbaye in Opobo today?

SlayerForever:
Your proposition and mine while tending to the same conclusion are not one and the same.
The empirical analysis leading to your result is more reliant on oral traditions. Traditions I know nothing about, and which of course I don't include. Instead I go with a more simpler approach of observing names. Nowhere in your work do you mention Agbaye, which I came to observe in Opobo. You suggested a distortion of an original Agbayiegbe to Agbariye instead.

I do however concede that deciphering and recognising Ala- from the full word as a non Igbo word was from you. If you have that derivation in print I will reference it immediately.

Ofodirinwa:
I don't know what part to explain, but if you's 'north', north is a direction and north of Bonny is (more) Igboland, south of Bonny is ocean. Hope that's the answer you're looking for?

SlayerForever:
Is that so. Where?

Deltagiant:


I Googled and found this piece on Ngwa-Bonny relations by ChinenyeN. Very interesting.

According to Ngwa traditions, an Ngwa man remembered as Okobo had two sons, recollected as Agba (said to be short for Agbayiegbe) and Okwuleze. Agba was a known hunter, and it is said that one day he headed toward the coast, on a hunting expedition. He returned days later to report that he came across a place with lots of birds, most notably curlew (Igoro-omirima, Igoloma, Ugoloma, depending on where in Ngwa/Ndoki one is from). Agba and some members of his family and some of his kinsmen later on then decided to migrate over and settle there. Some of Agba's family members though (being some sons, his brother [Okwuleze] and his [Okwuleze's] family), and other kinsmen didn't migrate, and instead remained where they were, at what is now known as Umuagbayi (Umu Abayi in Rivers State). Ijo people though, say Alagbariye was from Central Delta and that his name is Ijo. *shrug*

Now, here are some interesting things to note (and also infer)

#1. Umuagbayi traditions are silent about Ijo contact. They don't speak of any Ijo migration.

#2. G.I. Jones, the European man who did the most thorough work on the various groups/clans in the area, also notes similar, by stating: Both Ijo and Ibo traditions are silent about any contact between the two groups, apart from the Azuogo Ndokki, and Kalabari legends. - Trading States of the Oil Rivers

#3. Bonny traditions on migration route admit to Ijo coming in contact with already established Ngwa (Igbo) in what is now Ndoki, some of whom they then traveled with to Bonny.

#4. Referencing #'s 2 & 3 above, and in correlating Ijo and Ngwa accounts, we can see that Ijo migrants likely came in contact with Agba [Agbayiegbe] and co. (who were likely already en route toward the place with lots of curlew [Igoro-omirima] birds) and likewise joined them.

#5. No one seems to know the meaning of Alagbariye (or if they know, they aren't saying), but one thing that's interesting to note is that in Bonny/Ijo traditions, Alagbariye is said to be a prominent hunter (confirmation to Umuagbayi-Ngwa traditions) and a chief, and interestingly enough, "chief" in Ijo is ala (chief/leader).

#6. Seeing as to how the meaning or history behind Alagbariye's name is more or less unknown to the Ijo, and noting that the Ijo expression for "chief/leader" is ala, we can likely infer that the Ijo, in coming into contact with Agbayiegbe and co., must have referred to Agbayiegbe as Ala Agbayiegbe (chief/leader Agbayiegbe), as he is indeed the one who was leading the migration toward Bonny (as oral traditions recount), and as Bonny and Ngwa oral traditions further state, he became the chief/clan-head once the migrants settled at Bonny; the founder.

#7. Overtime, there maybe could have been either a corruption in speech (as there typically tends to be in things like this) and/or some error in transcription when Europeans recorded the oral accounts of the natives (as we are all familiar with, i.e. Sirie [Siriye], Onitsha [Onicha], Okrika [Wakrike], Bonny [Ubani/Ibani], etc.), which is likely responsible for Ala Agbayiegbe (chief/leader Agbayiegbe) being either eventually spoken as Ala-Agbariye and/or eventually recorded variously by Europeans as Alagbariye, Alagbara, Alagba-n-ye. Both [the speech corruption and the European transcriptions] seem equally likely.

Lastly -- [url=http://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&tbo=1&q=ngwa+ibani&btnG=Search+Books#sclient=psy&hl=en&tbo=1&tbm=bks&source=hp&q=ngwa+bonny+alagbara&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=efa74fedee4c96d0]GoogleBooks Search: ngwa bonny alagbara[/url] :: [url=http://www.google.com/search?sclient=psy&hl=en&tbo=1&tbm=bks&source=hp&q=ngwa+14th+century&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&ech=1&psi=-I-tTcWfBInqgAeLnOmFDA130323113637019&emsg=NCSR&noj=1&ei=w5GtTZLPN8GM0QHCofCuCw]GoogleBooks Search: ngwa 14th century[/url]

So, basically, attempts to match Bonny/Ijo and Ngwa oral traditions seems to indicate that Alagbariye (Ala-Agbayiegbe) was an Ngwa man, as Bonny oral tradition says.
https://www.nairaland.com/500126/true-extent-alaigbo-igboland/62

Ofodirinwa:
Bonny was settled in the 1500s by a group of settles from the Northern Igbo hinterland who named the land Okoloma after the Okolo which was abundant there and still is. If you don't know what Okolo is, or Okoloma means you don't know Bonny history.

Prior it was unsettled because there was no need to live there until the arrival of europeans as it proved to be a valuable access route to markets of the west through slavery, ivory and oil trade. Before the opening of the atlantic, there was nobody to trade with in that area

SlayerForever:
A quick investigation of Ngwa names of similar pronunciation and form brings up the name Agbayi. Interestingly, the various forms of Agbayi/Agbai/Agbaye all exists across Ngwa, Ukwa-Ngwa (Ndoki), Bonny and Opobo areas till this day.

That leave us with Ala. With the earlier stated presence of the Brass people in Bonny as captured by Crow a hundred years before, we can identify the Ala in the name as the Brass word for Chief, in recognition of Agbayi's authority. This name-title cojoininment for very ancient names is a regular phenomenon observed by scholars when investigating oral traditions. Hence the hitherto unusual name can now be recognized for its true nature which is Ala for Chief and Agbayi as the name of the progenitor of the Bonny people.

AjaanaOka:
The 'abo' in Onyeabo is àbọ̀ [LL].

Ekealterego:
ChinenyeN, the chief defender of Ijaw affairs since the inception of Nairaland. It has gotten to the Igbo example, suddenly, you have developed amnesia but for some reason, you know all the etymology is of the complicated Ijaw word amanayabo.

CovenHighPriest:
Lol Igbo people bear Onyeabo as name.

AjaanaOka:
This 'Ama Onye Naabo' thing had better be deliberate trolling. I hope no one who understands and speaks Igbo takes it seriously. Who says 'onye naabo' for 'two persons'?

In what Igbo dialect is 'onye' ever used as a plural? Onye naabo. If you come from a speech area that says onye naabo instead of mmadu naabo, please indicate. Otherwise, what sort of terrible grammar is that?

AjaanaOka:
See this caveat right here? I've been ruminating over it since my southern entry hypothesis post. It's hard to ignore. Eastern Ijo dialects' words for 'water' are most likely to have been influenced by Igbo forms.

What I find interesting about this is that: The Ijo appear to have a very long history with water. If there is one word one wouldn't think they'd borrow or adapt from more landward people, it would be the word for 'water'. It would be almost like the Arabic word for 'sand' coming from Persian or Spanish.

Except maybe if upon the arrival of the Ijo in what is now the Eastern Delta from more westerly directions they found it already occupied (sparsely perhaps) by Igbo-speaking populations , and in the intermixing and Ijo supercession that followed, Igbo-influenced forms of 'water' slipped into Eastern Ijo.

In one of the papers of M Sowunmi (a paleobotanist I've mentioned in previous discussions) he briefly mentioned an early dry period (BCE era) when grassland extended into the Eastern Niger Delta and the mangrove swamp virtually disappeared. An agricultural people like the early Igbo-speaking peoples could have flourished in the Eastern Niger Delta at the time. Ijo ascendancy there in a later period may have been aided by the return of wetter conditions, the swamps and the mangroves, a geographical situation for which their ancient Aquatic culture is better suited.

This is at least something worth looking into.

ThickSharon123:
What do you think the judge would do if he saw that, King People of blessed memory had bluntly told Crow that Amayanabo is "a land of two kings"? You ask yourself that question and make the decision here. And there are more overarching evidences that can't be disputed when it comes to the Bonny and Opobo proud Igbos territory.

ThickSharon123:
And for the etymology of languages, that isn't a necessary tool that breaks down the Amayanabo issue.

ThickSharon123:
Amayanabo in Crows or is it another author book, was said to be the "Land of two kings" it wasn't the Igbo defenders that made that.

Igboid:
ChinenyeN, you claim to be an academia, I double dare you to provide one Colonial document linking Bonny or Opobo to your Ijaw( Jos-people).

ChinenyeN:
I was among the first, if not the very first person to provide detailed AND VERIFIABLE synopsis of oral traditions in the Lower Niger that show that Igbo-speaking communities were present in Bonny before the Portuguese arrived, thereby predating the slave trade. Most of what you see here on NL is a repeat of what I shared over a decade ago when most Igbo people here were completely uninformed about the historical, cultural and linguistic relations in the eastern part of the Lower Niger.

ChinenyeN:
I come from a community that has oral traditions supporting our indigenous, non-slave, Igbo-speaking presence in Bonny and Opobo. There are oral traditions from Ijaw that verify Ijaw-speaking people coming into contact with Igbo-speaking people in Ndoki area before migrating to Bonny which further supports the presence of indigenous, non-slave, Igbo-speaking people in Bonny.

ThickSharon123:
Okay, as a simple fact why is it that only in Nembe (which is Igbo speaking or bilingual too) and Bonny and Opobo, we do have the titleship called Amayanabo. And not in all Ijaw clans as some Ijaws posit, grabbing the word in its entirety.

These title is only found in so-called Ijaw speaking clans which bluntly speak Igbo. But not in all Ijaw clans, not even in the central Ijaw area in Delta? It begs the question.

ThickSharon123:
If you are a person of logic, you'll know intonation or a breath of words doesn't really count as a collective of word construct. If it did, the professor's from the start who made their findings, Crow and the likes would have objectively used such parameters to conclude that the Bonny and Opobo are related to this Jo men who leave in the creeks as they make their record to the letter.

ThickSharon123:
For example in Crows book, Mmiri is water in Igbo, Nembe, Opobo and Bonny call it MMgi I presume. So, with what you've just given there's a link to these city states as in connection to Igbos, right?

Central Ijaw    Southern Igbo    Eastern Ijaw Harmonizing
be ->           mi ->            me/mi
ni ->           ri (nasal r) ->  ngi/nji/ndi

ThickSharon123:
I'll like to add have you read the ideas about Crow and the likes, which are pre-colonial papera justfiying the Igbo history of Bonny and Opobo in exemption from the fact IJAWS are trying to forcefully place a history in which the Bonny and Opobo's have no idea on.

ThickSharon123:
Alagoa and the likes had fraudently maimed this people of their history, placeing the Ijaw history as foremost. But these people still held on to their mother tongue which is Igbo till date.

Ijaws had to further lie that the Igbo mother tongue was too strong for the weak Ijaw language to give that it overpowered the Ijaw tongue (don't tell me you'll be so little to believe such fairytales?)

ChinenyeN:
Radoillo, the issues I discussed in the write-up focused primarily on the nationalistic approaches to Bonny history. I discussed the controversy and national tug-of-war politics between Igbo and Ijo over Bonny ethnic identity. Then I focused on the one-sidedness with which Ijo people have been treating Bonny history. Since the re-authorization attempts that began in the 1930s, Bonny-Ijo history has been told as if Bonny existed in isolation from the time of its establishment, up to the 20th century. I went over the different re-authorizations and touched on some of the logistical and chronological problems they created.

ThickSharon123:
Based on the etymology idea you wrote about. I'll like to ask you a question, wouldn't inter-relation between tribes affect the overall tone of a given language. For example, Delta or Ika Igbos do not have the same intonation or verility of language like those in the south. So that doesn't hold any claim.

Even with the Ijaws themselves, there's a saying that western Ijaws do not particularly understand Eastern Ijaws, although they have almost the same verbal construct. (So, I do not know where you're going with this idea on etymology and verbal intonation as put)

ThickSharon123:
No Igbo person would ever ridicule with the words nationalist like you, you've blown your cover and the more you talk the more it's blown the more.

Igboid:
So you understand Ijaw!

Good to see you embracing your true self.