ChangedMan1999:
How far Chinenye.

Please which of the south eastern state are you from?

I dey. I’m from Abia.

Sinistami, yeah, the Sabo Era is almost never discussed. However, you may sometimes notice the fallout of it in the way Igbo people talk about the Southeast minorities. Phrases like “they sabotaged us” used to be heard a lot even up to 2008, but from what I can tell, most Igbo people aren’t aware of what the Biafran army was actually doing in that time. It may surprise you just how many Igbo people respond with disbelief or even denial. when I go into some of the details about the Sabo Era. Yet, they just repeat “sabotage” and “betrayal” like a mantra, without knowing that villages in Kalabari, Okrika, Ngwa, Ndoki, Ibibio, etc. were actually clashing with the army. For the most part, the Biafran administration (and people in general) just seemed to keep quite and not discuss the saga after it happened; much like how many of our elders have generally remained quiet about the Biafran war.

It’s no wonder we can’t reconcile these events and heal, because the ethnic tension has never really been openly and honestly discussed beyond the nonstop insults being thrown both ways. Everyone feels victimized and they want to stay victimized. It’s understandable, but very tiring to have to go through the victimized conversations over and over again. But I guess that is what happens when there’s no room given for open and honest conversation.

IamAtikulate:
I thought Eze Ikonne, Enyi 1 of Aba is the paramount ruler of Ngwa land.

Ngwa doesn’t have a paramount ruler. It’s just that Ikonne was recognized before Enweremadu some two years prior, I believe.

Sinistami, pior to the Biafran War, a lot of southeast (I am using the geographic context and not the political context) Nigerian communities were unhappy with what seemed like an overwhelming hinterland Igbo migration into the area. Hinterland Igbo came to acquire civil service jobs and work in the new coal industry at the time.

At this time, people were still operating with their pre-colonial ethnic identities, so this wasn’t an “Igbo” issue yet, per se. For example, Ngwa, Asa, Ndoki and Echie all had similar grievances as their Bonny, Opobo, Okrika, and Kalabari counterparts. However, by the 1940s a lot of ethnic unions had begun forming; the Igbo State Union being one of them.

This is essentially the birth of ethnic nationalism in Nigeria, and communities that otherwise had not yet accepted being part of a “meta-identity” became effectively grouped as belonging to one of the “big three”. At this time, “Igbo” became an identifiable political block within Nigeria. Of course, due to Igbo’s overwhelming numbers, Nigerians outside of the southeast seemingly thought of the southeast as “Igbo”. Ethnic minorities, like Ijaw, began developing nationalism of their own in response.

By the 1960s, we began having clearer ethnic lines of Igbo vs Ijaw as opposed to the fluidity that existed thirty years prior. Ijaw nationalism also came with a campaign to distance Ijaw from Igbo and that manifested in a lot of ways (hence why we still have these incessant “who is Igbo?” and “who is Ijaw?” discussions).

Fast forward a little bit to just before the Biafran War. Ojukwu and Gowon were waging a propaganda war of their own. As part of the effort to chisel away at Ojukwu’s regional authority, Gowon increased ethnic tension in the southeast, claiming that the Igbo were going to overrun the minorities.

An Aside: Self-determination was a big thing in the southeast. Between 1910 and 1940s, many “Igbo” and “Ijaw” groups were actively petitioning the British for sovereignty of their own, rather than being grouped with others. For instance, Kalabari did not see themselves as “Ijaw” and wanted to govern themselves. Likewise, Ngwa did not see itself as “Igbo” and wanted to govern itself. This applies to many other groups as well. Now, back to the narrative.

Gowon gave a bit of hope to the minorities seeking self-determination. He created new states in Nigeria, effectively creating the idea is “Igbo” as a SE community and “Ijaw” as an SS community that had nothing to do with each other. After this happened, Ojukwu unilaterally declared Biafra as an independent nation (and included the many minority communities who had just received states of their own from Gowon). Obviously, suspicions grew on the part of minorities (Ijaw included). Gowon’s propaganda war won out in this case due to Ojukwu’s unilateral haste (there was never any referendum in which the local communities voted for secession).

Fast forward a bit into the Biafran war, there was an era in the war that people don’t seem to want to discuss. It’s generally called the “Saboteur Era”. During this period, Biafran administration was actually concerned that various groups were becoming discontent with the war effort, and with the increasing losses, some Biafran administrators and army leaders were looking for scapegoats. They called these “sabo”. Biafran military actually went combing through Ngwa, Asa, Ndoki, Annang, Efik, Kalabari, Okrika, etc. communities unilaterally sacking the communities and reportedly killing people under the guise of “they were saboteurs”. This led to armed and bloody clashes between the locals and the Biafran army. Suspicion grew even more.

By the time the war was over, the idea of “Igbo” was finally cemented. The Igbo felt betrayed by Ijaw and other minorities who did not stick with them to the end (even though they generally did). Minorities felt anti-Igbo suspicions and even hate (especially for the atrocities of the Sabo Era). Gowon’s anti-Igbo propaganda worked, and Ojukwu anti-saboteur effort (which turned out to disproportionately affect minority groups) made things worse.

From the end of the war until now, Nigeria has not attempted to foster any sort of reconciliation, rehabilitation or reparations between communities. Everything is swept under the rug and since then the communities has maintained a sense of ethnic tension between themselves.

Of course, there is more detail involved in this narrative, but it should be enough to get your research going into learning more about how Nigeria has contributed to unnecessary ethnic tensions within the country.

There are black Africans who did arrive with Europeans in the 19th century, but they were not Ijaw. As in, “Ijaw”, as an ethnic community, did not come to Nigeria as European indentured servants. Ijaw oral traditions suggest that they were just as established in Nigeria as other groups by the time Europeans arrived, and this can be corroborated with the oral traditions of other groups.

If I had to hazard a guess, it is most likely the case that this story of “arriving with Europeans” refers to the “Saro” people (Sierra Leoneans). They were actually returnees (formerly enslaved), and they came from different ethnic communities in Nigeria.

Many southern Nigeria communities have one story or another that refers to this returnee migration. I don’t know how it came to be associated with Ijaw, especially since there was known tension between Ijaw and some Saro returnees.

Long story short, it seems that people now use returnee migration to spite Ijaw people for whatever reason. At least, this is my interpretation. Perhaps someone who knows better might be able to clarify things or correct me where I may be mistaken.

WorWorBoy:

That dude is an Igbo man pretending to be Okrika on Nairaland.

You must really be new then. For a second I was thinking you might have been a former Nairalander and this was a secondary account for you, but for you to say that Ibime is not an Ijaw person really clarifies it for me.

Bonny and Opobo are culturally and politically Ijaw. Nationalism in Nigeria has locked that in place. This conversation is really not up for debate.

ijawcitizen:
That trash of a fabrication is alien to Ndoki, Bonny and Opobo who own the history. A crooked igbo revisionist parading as a historian like Prof. Kenneth Dike from far away anambra can not insult our sensibilities with his junk.

I encourage you to do some research then.

ijawcitizen:

Lemme guess, something like Alagbarigha being an Ngwa hunter as fabricated from the ass of Kenneth Dike?

That’s one, yes. It seems you’re already familiar. That’s good to know.

ijawcitizen:

And you happen to be the one with all the correct statements just like prof. Kenneth Dike who stated this campaign of Misinformation against Ijawland.

No, not all. I don’t claim to know everything, but I definitely know a few things on this subject.

So. Many. Wrong. Statements.

ijawcitizen:
They elected an igbo migrant in Ndokiland. Ndoki is Ijaw.

**shakes head in disappointment, but not surprise**

odumchi:
^^

As a follow up to my question, I'm interested in understanding how widespread this phenomenon is. From my experience, I used to consider it to be more of an Ngwa-Mbaise-Owerri axis thing, until sometime last year when I stumbled upon some literature describing its usage in the Umuahia region (and that piece of footage from that Anambra Mbem poet). Considering the collective magnitude of this linguistic block, I am actually a bit disappointed by how under-researched and under-exposed the peculiarities of their dialects are in the greater discourse of the Igbo language. It's actually a bit frustrating that these deep, intriguing nuances have been glossed over for so long and that the conversation on Igbo linguistic diversity has been centered on more cosmetic features.

This has been my longstanding frustration with modern Igbo tendencies. It has affected everything from how Igbo people perceive “Igbo language”, to politics and identity.

Anyhow, reading this now, I believe my answer to this is in one of my audio responses to you. If you feel my answer didn’t do it justice or if you’d want to discuss it further, let me know.

Odumchi lei. Hewu, o noooola odo. Harawa yee. I'll be back to respond to your follow up question, but see my preliminary responses here (they exceed the maximum upload size for NL): https://www.dropbox.com/sh/jjd9cldoxk7vulg/AACAy8JcuM99dfPvtADCx8lFa?dl=0

comfokon:
and In your mind, you think you know better than historians that studied the migration trend? you guys are land grabbers deal with it, it's very hard to see a typical Igbo accept another person's culture, these can only happen when they settle in peoples land and try to displace the aborigines.

aribisala0:
Amusing ....... We are not any nearer to defining "Igbo" especially in the context of archaeology and what it might reveal.
Is there such a thing as "igbo" especially from an archaeological perspective?

You are not a dumb individual. Please do not behave as though you do not know that one of the main purposes of archeology as a study is to help answer these sort of questions.

I'll echo RedboneSmith's words. Intelligibility is very low, but that also depends on the direction. An Izii speaker would have little (maybe no) problem understanding modern/mainstream Igbo, but not the other way around. From what I have seen, it is a consistent struggle for mainstream Igbo to understand Izii. So definitely, mutual intelligibility is inherently low.

Probz:
Is that something that changes with more and more exposure or is it always incomprehensible?

Every language in the world can be learned and understood. Specific humans do not hold a monopoly on specific sounds or modes of communication. So, Izii can definitely be learned as well. In fact, I'd say that prior knowledge (ie. some level of fluency or familiarity in another "non-mainstream" dialect) would be useful. However, it will still mostly feel as though learning Izii is like learning a different language.

Probz, from the much that I understand about the region, when it comes to specific words (when written down with Onwu orthography and without any indication of tone), they do not diverge that much. The cognate relationship between this cluster and say, Oratta is still rather high.

It's the morphology (how sentences are constructed along with tone) and phonology (pronunciation and tone) that truly sets it apart. I'll use Izii in particular, since it's divergence is well known. And anyone who knows better should feel free to correct me if I am wrong on this.

Let's take a famous bible verse, John 3:16 (in the King James version), "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.".

Igbo (standard-ish), "N'ihi na Chineke huru uwa n'anya otú a, na Ọ nyere ọbuná Ọkpara Ọ muru nání Ya, ka onye ọ bula nke kwere na Ya we ghara ila n'iyì, kama ka o nwe ndu ebighi-ebi." https://www.bible.com/bible/77/JHN.3.16.IGBOB

Izii, "Lẹ Chileke yekwarụ ndiphe obu; yetabe iya k'ọphu ọ nụru Nwa lanụ, o nweru kpoloko: g'ọoburu onye kwetarụ nkiya; onye ono taa ladụ l'iswi; o nwechiaru ndzụ ojejoje." https://www.bible.com/bible/1601/JHN.3.16.IZII

If you encounter Izii for the first time, it will certainly be unintelligible, even time after time after that. Yet, you can still see that as far as the cognate words are concerned, the divergence is not that far off. There is parity, but the morphology and phonology significantly obscure it.

As far as names peculiar to the region, someone else might have to answer that. I am not that familiar.

gartamanta:
If denial is how someone is identified as Igbo then it means that the Nsukka, Abiriba and Ngwa man can stop being Igbo any time they like just by denying it.

Correct. Now people beginning to understand.

AjaanaOka, I can certainly agree that the use is heavily associated with the sense of "community". There should be no way anyone would miss that connotation. However, you do bring up an interesting point. Outside of the current known use of "igbo" (within place and personal names), we don't see anything else. Even to make the potential "ogbo" (all, group) connection would not be possible without lookout outside of the Igbo-speaking region. Speaking of which, this is a new revelation for me. "Ogbo" is a term I am very much familiar with, but today is the only day I am seeing a potential connection between it and "igbo". But again, it is not something that could have been arrived at internally.

If I may add one more "hmm" observation, it is even more striking that the sense of "forest" that we get from the term "igbo" (at least within the Igbo-speaking region) comes almost exclusively from juxtaposing it with "oru".

Granted, with respect to the "forest" sense, I am speaking from a limited perspective. "Igbo" is not a term that is used in my region, so my knowledge of the full list of usages would be slim. If the term "igbo" is/can be used on its own when talking about forests and/or bushes within the Igbo-speaking region, then I will stand corrected. However, for now, and to the best of my limited knowledge, I have yet to come across any usage of "igbo" that directly references the forest or the bush. With that, I have decided to say that the "forest" sense is only realized when juxtaposing "igbo" with "oru".

All of this considered, there seems to be more than enough basis to suspect/suggest a 'cluster' etymology for "igbo".

Etymologically, "Igbo" does indeed mean "forest" or "bush", and it is/was used in the SE to denote forest-dwelling communities as opposed to river-dwelling communities known as "Oru". This dichotomy seems to be wholly indigenous in the SE, making it highly unlikely that SW ever ascribed "Igbo" to the SE. Rather, it is probably more so the case that the term, Igbo, is a legacy from proto-YEAI period. After all, Igbo and Yoruba are part of the same language family. Igbo simply branched off sooner than Yoruba. Therefore, it is not surprising that there would be terminology that is shared between the two branches that survived over the millennia.

darfay:
The art work suggested that Igbo race of the 8th century were more advanced than those of the 18th century

The art suggests a lost bronzesmithing culture group which belonged to the Awka-Orlu cultural complex.

The concept of "cultural continuity" (with respect to the Awka-Orlu axis and the artifacts) seems to be evading darfay.

Am I reading this exchange correctly? There are people here trying to make a non-Igbo argument about excavated artifacts? Do people not know how archeology and anthropology work?

AjaanaOka:
Sorry. This took way longer than I had intended.

Enyi, no worries. I, just as much as anyone, understands and appreciates the time an effort involved in all of this.

AjaanaOka:
You may notice the timeline is almost entirely focused on Bonny and Kalabari and says next to nothing about how other important players like Andoni fared. Consider that one of its weaknesses.

I certainly agree. In fact, I had your Abiriba-Aro thread from earlier in mind, hoping that some of this information (relating to ascendancy) might reveal something about the Calabar groups. Well, we already know how this goes for people like us. We work with what we have, until we find come across something novel and interesting. Nevertheless, I do appreciate this breakdown. One thing you said struck me in particular:

AjaanaOka:
This period (the mid-17th century) is the period the Ozuzu were most likely to have expanded north dramatically and established a satellite at Umunneoha.

You know, this makes sense. Initially, I wanted to consider the establishment of Igwe ka Ala as potentially earlier, since we do not traditionally associate Amadioha exclusively with the slave trade. In short, we don't associate Amadioha with oracular trade in general, as we would with say Agbala or Ibini Ukpabi, for instance. However, this excerpt above makes a great deal of sense if I consider one important detail--Igwe ka Ala was forcibly established. This story of violent settlement is not associated with the other Amadioha satellites (at least to the best of my knowledge), but it does make sense that it would likely occur in this period (or just slightly before this period) to either capitalize on or initiate the boom in traffic.

I guess there is justification for a later sudden and dramatic establishment (in the mid-17th century) as opposed to an earlier one during the wet interlude (16th century).

Anyhow, it certainly seems like the Kamalu and the Chukwu campaigns were separate. I wonder what prompted the use of Kamalu in the southern end, when we know that the raids were far less effective (meaning far less opportunity to display warrior prowess). Unlike further north, Chukwu campaign was in place while raids were still ongoing, even through 19th century.

If it is possible that Kamalu (or use of Kamalu by Aro) predates Chukwu, then it might provide the basis for your comments on Aro being established sooner than contemporary historians believe. If so, we might say they established with Ibini Ukpabi and Kamalu, and the adoption of "Chukwu" for Ibini Ukpabi would have come after they had already begun expansion into different Igbo-speaking territories. But I do not have much to support this speculation, so I'll consider it "floating" for now.

But where would this leave other aspects of Aro history, such as their war with Ibibio elements, which predates their acquisition of Ibini Ukpabi, consequently predating Arochukwu. Unless... it was Kamalu they were using before acquiring Ibini Ukpabi. Which might explain the pair/partner view or relationship as opposed to a superior-subordinate relationship.

Daverytimes:
I had a brief talk with someone under a YouTube video and the same points you made was what I made, languages are inherently political and what constitutes a stand alone language is not understood and based solely on politics.

I think in general if a dialect is unintelligible to those in the same group of languages then it is a different language under the same group, ekpeye is a different language under the igboid group of languages as it is simply unintelligible to most Igbo. Whether or not it can be considered too divergent depends on if you still consider it a dialect or a different language.

Exactly.

cheruv:
SPILC had alot of defects... So it's not surprising it failed.

While I certainly agree that the SPILC more or less created a weak product (Izugbe), I have to admit that they achieved what they set out to do. So technically, it's not a failure. They created a new standard, and it has been in place for forty years now. So it was a success. It is a lacking standard, yes, but that is actually by design. Where I consider it a failure is the effect it ultimately had. It led to a stall. Izugbe isn't being developed further, and on top of that, Igbo people are foolishly using Izugbe to consequently stall the various native lects.

cheruv:
I've already worked out a model for use of Chinese characters in writing Ìgbò.. taking into account the verbs, prefixes, suffixes and other lexical aspects that are prone to being ignored and I can tell you it came out just fine.
Ìgbò has alot of palindromic words but I've noticed that the Eastern dialects tend to have less occurance of such.
孩母 如 它 在....

I'd be interested in hearing more. But have you heard of the Neo-Nsibidi project?

Here's a link to the Izi PDF. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1IVa3DolLbiSB9Ud5szcZbWpotLEo7ybj/view?usp=drivesdk

Ah. Aka is destiny or fate? Yeah, that's not a term we use in our community.

So, "Chi na Aka" is similarly as redundant as "Chi na Eke" (at least, based off my current understand). Man, this only adding more to the tangled nature of this thread.

cheruv:

Am working on expanding the vocabulary of standard Ìgbò and am looking towards the izii cluster... Do you know how I can get a PDF version of their dialectal vocabulary?

Hehe. You're trying to succeed where the SPILC failed ehn kwa? That's quite the endeavor, but I wish you the best of luck in that. To aid you on this, I know I had in my possession a non-searchable PDF of their language and grammar. Give me some time to look for it and I'll share it with you.

What exactly is Chi na Aka, by the way? Based off the pronunciation I'm familiar with (the name Chilaka), I interpret it along the lines of "chi is in the business of saying". I don't know anything about it beyond that.

AjaanaOka:
Not necessarily by the Aro. The Aro didn't establish it. The Etche did. At least traditions says they did.

But, yes, I am wondering if the handlers of Igwekala had something like that at the back if their minds.

As far as this is concerned, I had never stopped to think about that aspect. In truth, I've always wondered why Igwe ka Ala had a different name, and it's only recently that I suppositioned climate change as part of that. It never crossed my mind though to consider the effect of an already present Sky-related spirituality. However, that does leave me wondering about other satellite shrines in the area and further north that may answer "Amadioha" or "Amadiora", but not "Igwe ka Ala".

Either way, the pre-existing Sky-related spirituality provides a solid basis for such a thought, and I would not be surprised if Nneoha capitalized on that. I would not even be surprised if it turned out that the forceful establishment of Umunneoha was to do just that. After reading and researching into pre-colonial Igbo history and culture, one thing has been made very clear to me. Ako na uche was abundant during those dynamic times.

*clears throat*

Gama nye ọhnụhnụ ahnaa to la snị wịka. I hope that gets the point across.