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Foreign AffairsRe: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by chris365(m): 7:27pm On Aug 25, 2013
Mike..ZA:
"Hiding their guns from M23"? Please follow M23 on Twitter,cause they clearly said the SANDF was engaging them. And only one SANDF soldier was injured from shrapnel.
the only proof i keep seeing are the statements from your president and military commanders. am not an M23 follower on twitter. i say what i see, and i saw your troops hiding their guns
Foreign AffairsRe: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by chris365(m): 7:23pm On Aug 25, 2013
zaandrew: If you watch the interview of the group you would know. They where brought in to creat a docmantry mini serries to rais internasnal awarnac.
guy stop denying na. haba. there reason for coming to your aid clearly states:

to survey the situation, train the anti-poaching corps, exchange tactical information and go on the front lines to put a stop to the ruthless and illicit wildlife poaching activities of international crime syndicates.
http://www.philstar.com/breaking-news/2013/06/06/950849/military-experts-fight-brutal-poachers-battleground-rhino-wars

and the report says their presence have shown more result than your thousands of soldiers have in years. that only shows a weak and tactless military.
Foreign AffairsRe: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by chris365(m): 6:57pm On Aug 25, 2013
zaandrew: If kenya deployed that many people they could in affect have a secstion deployed 24/7 by every rhino.

And those forghin speciol forces where hired by a privat game park not SA. And it is not 2000 solders unless you saying the privat securty companys that have anti poaching units are solders.
why woild they need foreign help if all was going well? duhh!!
Foreign AffairsRe: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by chris365(m): 6:40pm On Aug 25, 2013
zaandrew: While the higher ups where claiming that sandf was not envolved in any combat it has come out that the SANDF shelled M23 postions with mortas and took out a MG post in 2 seprate occasions. What is being said is not what is being done.
so in other words. both your military and political leaders are confused. and you want us to believe the CAR incident..SMH
Foreign AffairsRe: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by chris365(m): 6:32pm On Aug 25, 2013
Mike..ZA:
The Nigerian pygmy hippos were seen or shot
in Rivers State, Imo State and Bayelsa State,
Nigeria. While some local populations are aware
that the species once existed, its history in the
region is poorly documented
grin grin grin grin

desperate now aren't you? their are many lions and hippos in my village alone. and yes they are poorly documented cos they stay in the thickest parts of our forests, not in bushes like yours. and trust me dude, no tourist would wanna dare enter one of those forests that's similar with the amazon jungle
Foreign AffairsRe: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by chris365(m): 6:23pm On Aug 25, 2013
just as i thought.. SANDF scared to fight real battles. and these clowns here want to claim involvement in a fight their troops are hiding their guns from .SMH

SA troops in DRC won’t fight M23: Presidency
The Presidency says South African soldiers deployed in the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) will not be engaged in armed combat with that country's M23 rebel group.
http://www.sabc.co.za/news/a/bb81bc8040d7218bb67cb7434f2981a1/SA-troops-in-DRC-won't-fight-M23:-Presidency

i always knew the deployment was to save face from the embarrassment they face in the hands of seleka. SANDF are toy soldiers and they keep proving it grin

lost to seleka, losing to poachers, hiding their guns from M23 while their mandate is to fight and dislodge rebels.. real toy soldiers

this is the new SANDF

Foreign AffairsRe: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by chris365(m): 6:11pm On Aug 25, 2013
zaandrew: If kenya looses 600 rhionos they looses there entire rhino populastion

http://www.kws.org/research/projects/rhino_programme.html

75% of all rhinos are in sa.

http://m.wwf.org.za/act_now/rhino_conservation/index.cfm

So yes we doing better that any other country.
guy, of all african countries burden by poaching, SA is the only one that has deployed more than 2000 troops to join more than a thousand park rangers, including foreign special forces just to combat poaching. and it has only gotten worst.

you are not doing good at aaaalllllll

South Africa Regroups in War on Rhino Horn Poachers

The audience sat in stunned silence on hearing the announcement that, with five months to go, South Africa’s rhino-poaching toll for 2013 had already shot well past the 500 mark.

With 536 rhinos killed in the country by the end of July, it seemed highly likely that conservationists’ worst fear would come true. This is that the death toll for the year will surpass 2012′s shocking 668 and head for 1,000.
Foreign AffairsRe: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by chris365(m): 5:51pm On Aug 25, 2013
zaandrew: that is 367 more rhinos than nigeria has
typical south african.. your behind gets exposed you start to compare Nigeria to SA grin

Nigeria was never a place for rhinos. so whats your point exactly
Foreign AffairsRe: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by chris365(m): 5:48pm On Aug 25, 2013
zaandrew: With most of the rest of the worlds rhinos wiped out SA is now under siege from poachers. The fact is while you may say look at how they getting killed in SA the really sad fact is that it the only place in the world where rhinos can be found in such numbers. Nigeria lost the war on poachers years ago we the last bastion the only one that has held out.
Errr.. wrong boss. Kenya is doing better than you. find out yourself
Foreign AffairsRe: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by chris365(m): 5:47pm On Aug 25, 2013
NaijaPikinGidi: Even if you don't say anything more today ... this is something for the silly urchin to reflect on for a long time to come! Now relax and watch his stupidity kick-in after this!
roger that boss.. am already exhausted. educating a retard isn't easy o. grin
Foreign AffairsRe: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by chris365(m): 5:43pm On Aug 25, 2013
CraigB: Ten paragraphs of emptiness.

I repeat and I quite you:

"The deployment in the Kruger National Park[/b] on the Mozambique border has led to a significant drop in cross border crime and rhino poaching in the park".

So, by your own admission, the poachers are not winning. That's all we need to know. Everything else is irrelevant and it's just jungle noises.

No need to even read the whole thing. Your own source confirms our successes grin. Trying to claw out of this by posting mountains of words won't help you. You're a monkey and your brain is a circus. A bozo. grin
slow down little boy.. am happy to be a source of enlightenment to you. since you wanna talk about success of rhino poaching, let me help you with a recent one

Rhino poaching in SA worse than ever, in spite of new technology

SA's tally of poached rhino looks set to exceed last year's 668 killed, with officials saying 367 have been killed in the first five months of 2013
http://mg.co.za/article/2013-05-30-rhino-poaching-worst-than-ever-in-spite-of-new-technology

this has clearly become an education rather than an argument. boooring *yawns*
Foreign AffairsRe: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by chris365(m): 5:30pm On Aug 25, 2013
CraigB: It was a bloody civil war, idïot. Enough already. There are even former Biafrans is your army - not so? Naai-gerian against Naai-gerian impresses no one, monkey-vambi.
hmm! i see why your boars quickly surrendered south africa to those they labelled terrorists grin. a civil war would have destroyed you. grin

glad to see you are angry that Nigeria survived the deadliest civil war in africa which would have turned SA to somalia
Foreign AffairsRe: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by chris365(m): 5:26pm On Aug 25, 2013
CraigB: Is that so? I SMH. Fast asleep today, monkey? Go back, read delete this last post before your family disown you.
Well, assuming they are smarter than you are, when I doubt. The apple does not fall too far fell the tree. I'm sure you take after your father, looking at the state naai-geria is in.

Your hapless own-goal post has been dealt with. You want fries with that?

Failed yet again. South African smarts against Naai-gerian monkeyville. No contest. The apes may rise, but only so high.
bla bla bla bla... still no sense in this trash grin
Foreign AffairsRe: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by chris365(m): 5:25pm On Aug 25, 2013
CraigB: "....has led to a significant drop in cross border crime and rhino poaching in the park".


Thank you. You can't even deny the above, seeing as you posted it.

No need to even explain to you how corona fits into the ministry of environmental affairs. It's successful and poachers aren't winning after all. grin

Thank you for confirming the successes. No need for any more noise about where or not there are successes. You confirmed it, when you were trying to be clever. grin I should feel sorry for you now. But I don't. You never cease to put your foot in it.

I told you: you'll never be smarter than any South African. Talking about intelligence will not make you smart. This is not osmosis, humanoid. grin
slow down dumbo, slow down grin grin grin grin you sound desperate to cover your exposed ignorance, yet exposing it more.

o dude, you still remain the most stup1d SAn on this thread before swanky grin. i posted that statement from a 2011 report

see how you are jumping around a 2011 claim while 2013 happens to be one of the worst poaching incidents that drew the attention of foreign special forces to assist your incompetent soldiers.

and was the statement not meant to expose your ignorance about an operation corona happening in your country which you knew nothing about until i enlightened you? so why are you blabbing to nothingness over an old report that the current situation says otherwise. grin very silly kid grin

i know you'll be thanking God for bringing me on this thread cos i've been a source of enlightenment to you. this just proves it.. grin

jumping around an old report grin grin grin grin this kid is an amusement grin
Foreign AffairsRe: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by chris365(m): 5:11pm On Aug 25, 2013
CraigB: As desperate as crafting your every comment around CraigB? grin

You've been hurt. A hurt boon.

Sure, humanoid. We believe you. SMH.
i see you won't respond to my operation corona post grin. typical ignorance exposed again grin

that's why i like to refer every ignorant, dumb and stup1d south african to you. go figure grin
Foreign AffairsRe: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by chris365(m): 4:56pm On Aug 25, 2013
CraigB: Hahaha - crabB has hurt your feelings clearly. The moment you give us something worth looking at, we might listen. Right now, you are a hurt subhuman trying to find relevance. You've pushed your mind as far as you can.

Face it, your fake researcher has nothing. You've always had nothing.
dude, this your post has desperation written all over it. keep it up
Foreign AffairsRe: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by chris365(m): 4:53pm On Aug 25, 2013
CraigB: More embarrassment for you. You don't know what operation corona is. So how about you research that before you shame the whole of Naai-geria. Hint hint, ape man.
an ignorant boy that needs help with info about his own country undecided

i feel for the south african brain grin

"Operation Corona, which is intended to fight cross border crime and illegal immigration, has achieved several successes and its deployment in the Kruger National Park on the Mozambique border has led to a significant drop in cross border crime and rhino poaching in the park".

so who else crosses the Mozambican boarder to hunt if not poachers? the stench of your ignorance keeps getting worse cry

am really sorry for you grin
Foreign AffairsRe: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by chris365(m): 4:45pm On Aug 25, 2013
agaugust: i dont feel embarrassed, i quoted a source. i am not the journalist, so why should i be embarrassed by an incident that happened in south africa where i dont live ? none of my business, i simply dont care.

no source says for sure he committed suicide, south african government says shooting incident, NOT accident or suicide. fool, you should be the one embarrased below :


Johannesburg - A soldier has been killed during an operation in the Kruger National Park, the SA National Defence Force (SANDF) said on Monday.

Private Thabiso Zulu, of Regiment East Rand, was deployed on Sunday with 2 SA Infantry Battalion.


"[He] was allegedly involved in a fatal shooting incident while on duty during Operation Corona in the Kruger National Park," said SANDF spokesperson Xolani Mabanga.

A board of inquiry had been convened to investigate the shooting incident, he said.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Soldier-killed-in-Kruger-National-Park-20130819

Rhino poachers are tormenting south african military in their own homeland soil cheesy cheesy

.
for almost four years now SANDF can't stop ordinary poachers shocked. no wonder they fled from CAR knowing they have no capability to fight real warriors grin
Foreign AffairsRe: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by chris365(m): 4:40pm On Aug 25, 2013
zaandrew: if you did more than 3 seconds of research i would not have embarrassed you.
lets be real here. SANDF is known for exaggerating success and downplaying failure. soldier commits suicide during military operation? even a lemming that's as dumb as CrabB will not believe that crap.
Foreign AffairsRe: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by chris365(m): 4:30pm On Aug 25, 2013
CraigB: The biggest load of rubbish I ever read. Not entirely surprised though. You always come up with these baboon gems. Wasting pages and speaking out your bum.

I repeat: you respect international laws? That's why you arrested al Bashir?

Don't give me stories about leading the AU. Just tell us how your respect international laws caused you to arrest al Bashir.

When you're done with that: tell us why the excuse below.

-----


Nigeria Claims Sudan's Al-Bashir Escaped Shortly Before Handover to ICC
22 August 2013 , By Nicholas Ibekwe, Source: Premium Times
The Federal Government was already making plans to hand over Sudan's leader, Omar al-Bashir, during his controversial visit to the country in July to attend an African Union summit, before he abruptly cut short his visit and left Nigeria, the Attorney General of the Federation (AGF), Mohammed Adoke, has told the International Criminal Court (ICC).
shocked

------


You'll always be a baboon and can't be smarter than any South African on this thread. Talk about the AU when you couldn't even stop the AU from voting for Zuma's ex-wife. Hard though you may have tried . grin

Yes, indeed. Adios dumbo.
grin grin grin grin grin

am surprised you shied away from posting the full story.. what were you trying to hide? your ignorance? the whole article must have confused you so you needed something to continue with your ignorant behavior. very typical dumb head

like i said earlier.. politics. and it's something that is too much for your small brain.
Foreign AffairsRe: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by chris365(m): 4:17pm On Aug 25, 2013
zaandrew: First one was a suicide aka he shot himself, second one was a helo crash
excuses galore grin grin grin grin grin
Foreign AffairsRe: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by chris365(m):
CraigB: A monkey foaming in the mouth on a glorious Sunday. You respect international laws? That's why you arrested Al Bashir when he came to your country?

Says HRW: Nigeria had “the shameful distinction of being the first West African country to welcome ICC fugitive Sudanese President Sudan al-Bashir.”

Pull the other one, monkey. It's got bells in it!

Don't compare yourselves to the US, bozo. The US has been fighting a foreign foe, outside the US.

You on the other hand have all the support of the state apparatus at your disposal. You even have a bloody state of emergency! Yet, you are still getting bliksemmed. When will you be disengaging from Monkey-guduiri then? Next year? Next century? Never-ending never? Will you wipe out every Naai-gerian boko haram sympathiser today?

Give us a break with your weak propaganda.

Jou fokkon naai! cool
you just keep exposing how angry you get when hit with something bigger than your brain. how does my response show anger? confirm empty head dey worry you
how is your comment supposed to be a sound response to my mine? am only gonna respond to further expose your ignorant little brain.

AU (which SA also belongs to but knows nothing about) rejected ICC arrest warrant on bashir due to their accusaion that ICC purposely goes after only african leaders.

Nigeria unlike SA plays a leading role in giving AU a stronger voice in the international community like EU. thereby respecting AU laws and resolutions remains part of it.
Bashir came for an AU event, not a state visit. it would have been a big shame had Nigeria arrested him on an AU occasion. Just cos SA didn't have the balls to promote AU agenda doesn't mean Nigeria has to follow suit.

why do you think UN or whatever body cannot even talk about punishment rather than just make noise? simple politics dummy.

i know all this information will be too much for your ignorant little brain to assimilate so i'll just leave it for a more sound mind to read

adios stupido

an yes, i have the justification to compare Nigeria to US, Britain, Russia, Philippine, Colombia, Turkey... only a baboon brain like yours will not.
Foreign AffairsRe: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by chris365(m): 8:04am On Aug 25, 2013
agaugust: it does not haunt me, i will gladly repeat it 1,000 times. i enjoy it. its a word for the wise, not the foolish ; cheesy

[size=16pt] b.oko h.aram is NOT bold enough to launch a full scale offensive against nigeria. they are hit-and-run guerrillas who cannot stand and face the enemy without running from combat like south african army ran away from seleka rebels. FACT ! cheesy cheesy cheesy cheesy[/size]
.
the guy is too ignorant to understand guerrilla warfare. you forgot to tell him they now only attack border communities cos cameroon is too scared to offend them.

that's why they ran away from CAR. it would have been a bigger disgrace than the 4*4 race they ran grin
Foreign AffairsRe: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by chris365(m): 2:16am On Aug 24, 2013
CraigB: Hahaha - caviar costs &10 in Naai-geria? This is getting amusing. grin grin

Perfect. You see. Next time someone insults you and says: "I won't bother explaining. It will be like caviar to you", you now get the insult. But if you keep insisting that caviar costs $10, the person will say: "See? What did I say?"
grin

The person will complain that explaining caviar to a pauper is futile. grin

It's like explaining the colour red to a blind person. grin

-----

You have amused me today. grin grin grin
what an 1diot grin grin grin. you recently quoted the cheaper recipe for caviar that's meant for the average man, am telling you the prize and it amazes you? you're an amusement grin grin now tell me who's ignorant grin

anyone who knows caviar will understand when you tell him you bought a $10 plate. DUHH undecided like what i've been trying to tell you since. DUHH undecided

only a bushman like you that only sees it in magazines and tv will cry the way you are doing now.

once again, don't use that phrase again cos caviar will always make sense to a common man.
Foreign AffairsRe: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by chris365(m): 1:58am On Aug 24, 2013
CraigB: You've learnt a new phrase and discovered news food. Accept it and go impress other people in Onitsha.
Case closed indeed. Close long before you even opened your mouth.

--//

Once again: all this is caviar to you, as you keep proving the point. grin
no my dull friend.. i have thought you a new thing today and am sure that now that you know you can have a taste for less than $10, you'll thank me in your heart grin

stop using the word wrongly please cos there's definitely no level of class in your comments. i've exposed your ignorance and it will hunt you to your grave grin
Foreign AffairsRe: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by chris365(m): 1:53am On Aug 24, 2013
CraigB: No idïot. It is a bloory saying. grin grin you keep
Exposing yourself. Nothing has been admitted. Caviar costs about £5000 a kilo. Naai-gerian monkeys claim they can afford caviar now. Please don't embarrass yourself. grin

Case closed indeed. Close long before you even opened your mouth.
oh common.. don't change the subject. your phrase is as flawed as your thinking.
CraigB: Caviar will never make sense to a pauper.
and now you want to tell me it's expensive and also affordable for the poor, which was my own point grin

how will it not make sense to a pauper when his crave brought a cheaper version.

you were just too ignorant to know how wrong you used it. wow! google is really helpful for some people o shocked

so, as you were... an idiot
Foreign AffairsRe: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by chris365(m): 1:43am On Aug 24, 2013
CraigB: Proving my stuïidity by always responding after I log off. grin

Proving my stüpidity by saying: "I have proved your stüpidy. grin

Sure, Mr Caviar. Lots of substance in all your comments. grin

They ooze substance and aren't empty at all. You're almost 2 degrees above monkeydom. Only that's just my wish. cry

You even don't realise the fit-for-paupers caviar is vegetarian. Never mind the actual phrase which you still prove to not be fit enough to understand. Now you prove that you don't even know what caviar is.

Not that I blame you. You're Naai-gerian. angry

Even Möet & Chandom has been made accessible to you by South Africa.
hmm! so you quickly ran to google for help as usual to rescue yourself after an unguarded utterance ehn. grin grin. ignorant little boy just proved my point exactly.

now let me rephrase your own comment
CraigB: Caviar will never make sense to a pauper.
yet you finally agree that it actually does. cos his crave helped made it affordable.

wrong phrase from an empty head who never understood what he used as a phrase grin

case closed.. you are an 1diot grin.
Foreign AffairsRe: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by chris365(m): 1:21am On Aug 24, 2013
CraigB: How wonderful for the soldiers. We are happy for them.

Too bad it changes nothing.


http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/africa/2013-08/24/c_132658324.htm

Boko Haram suspects kill 44 in Nigeria village raid
English.news.cn 2013-08-24 01:10:31
MAIDUGURI, Nigeria, Aug. 23 (Xinhua) -- Suspected Boko Haram suspects have killed 44 people in Dumba Village of northeast Nigeria's Borno State, a top official of the National Emergency Management Agency (NEMA) reported on Friday.


_______


Mr I-just-discovered-caviar-today. The same monkey that celebrated a useless ceasefire not too long ago. As I was, indeed. cool
still i continue to prove how ignorant and stup1d you are grin

so now i just discovered caviar cos i exposed your stupid1ty ehn? what an 1diot undecided

an ignorant f00l that thinks caviar is only meant for the rich. grin

admit it boy. you are a poor person who thinks it's still an expensive food. grin how can caviar annoy a pauper when he craves it. grin am done with you

as you were... an 1diot grin
Foreign AffairsRe: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by chris365(m): 1:06am On Aug 24, 2013
saengine: SA troops destroy rebel tank in Goma, DRC. The fight has begun

http://www.news24.com/Africa/News/UN-troops-fight-in-DRC-after-civilians-die-20130823-2

Goma - United Nations troops in the Democratic Republic of Congo went into action on Friday to battle M23 rebels after at least four civilians were killed in clashes near the flashpoint city of Goma, a UN spokesperson said.

Late Thursday, shells hit the outskirts of Goma, killing a woman and a child, and a rocket struck the nearby village of Kanyaruchinya, killing two and injuring nine others.

The civilians were victims of fighting that has erupted sporadically since mid-July between M23 and the regular army in a region 20km north of Goma, a city of one million people, ending a truce of about two months.

Military spokesperson Prosper Basse told UN-sponsored Radio Okapi that troops of the UN mission in the country (Monusco) were "henceforth engaged alongside the FARDC (regular army)" to deal with the threat.

Leaders meet

South African artillery forces in a new UN intervention brigade, authorised in March to take the offensive against armed movements, destroyed a rebel T55 tank stationed near Kibati, about 20km from Goma, according to the UN.

President Jacob Zuma, whose SA National Defence Force has committed 1 345 men to the UN brigade, met in Luanda on Friday with DR Congo President Joseph Kabila and Angola's Jose Eduardo dos Santos to discuss the insurgency.

Dos Santos said the instability threatened "the peace and security of the whole region".

Three months ago, Monusco declared a protection zone with a perimeter of 30 kilometres around Goma and the nearby strategic town of Sake "to prevent this sort of atrocity by M23 against civilian populations", spokesperson Basse said.
your cowards were never involved in the fight.. stop fooling yourself with hasty reports.. F00L

South African soldiers in the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) have not been engaged in armed combat with rebels in the country, the SA National Defence Force said.
http://www.timeslive.co.za/africa/2013/08/23/sa-soldiers-in-drc-haven-t-engaged-rebels-sandf
Foreign AffairsRe: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by chris365(m): 12:58am On Aug 24, 2013
CraigB: I suppose you will amaze us by proving him wrong. Ok.

Very smart. Er lest, we forget. BH are Naai-gerian. Your own fellow monkeys. You are doing this monkey business to each other. Leave us commentators out of it. wink
it's only an airhead like you that will continue to show his ignorance with pride grin

Soldiers Arrest Fleeing Foreign Boko Haram Members
http://pmnewsnigeria.com/2013/05/31/soldiers-arrest-fleeing-foreign-boko-haram-members/

Boko Haram leader is from Niger Republic
http://news.naij.com/38340.html

so, as you were... an 1diot grin
Foreign AffairsRe: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by chris365(m): 12:46am On Aug 24, 2013
CraigB: No need to waste energy.

_____
A Kaduna-based human rights activist, Shehu Sani, on Wednesday dismissed claims by the Joint Military Task Force in Maduguri that it has killed the leader of Boko Haram sect, Abubakar Shekau.

Sani further challenged the Nigerian military to produce the body of the presumed late leader of the sect to the public as proof.

cool

___


Or better yet:


'Boko Haram Islamists' kill 35 in Nigeria raid
and the f00l has no one else to quote but shehu sani that has always been sympathetic to boko haram.

well, i don't blame you.. your mandela was a terrorist and still seen as a hero
Foreign AffairsRe: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by chris365(m): 10:00pm On Aug 23, 2013
swanky@vodamail:
Rule number one keep your generetor out of your house you are inhaling too much fumes now you are high you sound like a bitch on hit if you have nothing worth saying just shut up and give worthy nigerians space to comment
dude was right. undecided you really are sensless grin

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