₦airaland Forum

RedboneSmith:
We could have an interesting discussion about Igbo culture and what it really is, and then determine if it is possible to distinguish Igboid from Igbo based on culture. But sadly, you are not really engaging my question.

Traditional belief system? What are those elements of Igbo belief system? Are they really pan-Igbo (i.e., do they exist exclusively in all the so-called Igbo areas) and non-existent in the so-called igboid areas?

Cuisine? Can you name a dish which is common to all the so-called Igbo areas --- all of them --- but which the so-called Igboid areas do not indulge in?

Arts? Are there art forms which ALL the so-called Igbo people practise which the so-called Igboids don't?

I want to know if we can really articulate a common Igbo culture which can be demonstrated as separating the Igbo from those you would called Igboid. Put Yoruboid matter aside; this may not be a "London is to England, as Paris is to France" situation.

Bro, I respect people like you that are honest and argue out of deep personal conviction irrespective of whose ox is gored. I don't know what side you are on this but I'm certain you know the answer to most of these questions you're asking probz. As for me, I'm not completely on any side.

In my opinion, the op is right to some extent but he's trying to argue from an objective angle which I think is not possible in this topic. And his authoritative generalization is another issue.

And all those saying they understand Ukwani and Ika are not being truthful. You understand some things but you can't understand Ika and Ukwani except you've spent some time in an Ika and Ukwani town.

cheruv:
That destruction stuff you're denying is what I read directly from an Edo website... Or are you trying to say that your Edo people Sounds cool!!. In my leisure time I read good books, walks on the beach and cozy candlelight dinners. I enjoy movies, television, music, traveling, the quietness of the mountains, the ocean, sunrises and sunsets. I am comfortable in jeans or a nice suit. I believe in enjoying the good life and am high on it. I have a healthy attitude about life.
I am a very outgoing person, who loves to dine out, travel and enjoy the simple life. I am a hopeless romantic and very affectionate. I have a good sense of humor. now liars
You're the one who thinks we're playing here...kos most of the facts that have been thrown at you are ones you can't do anything about

And what makes you think Edo website represents Edo? What website is that? What makes you think Edo website can't lie? Website was written by an individual and do you know that the Benin Royalty has dispelled lots of the things Egharavba wrote in his book? Which shows it was just his opinion and not fact. Have I ever told you I'm Edo? And what about the other points I made? How did they add up with your fabrications you called fact?

cheruv:
Was this not what I said earlier and that Cire80 was talking rubbish
But according to your submission, are you trying to say that before 1577, that agbor was called Igidi...kos 1577 is the year the Bini attacked and destroyed agbor. Also according to that document, Igidi was a kingdom in present day Anioma that was destroyed at the turn of the 15th century.. Though the report wasn't sure what led to its destruction.
Secondly, the Ominijie issue shows that one ND report I read sometimes ago on agbor was actually correct in contrast to what ehikwe was saying
Truly history is sacred

Destruction of Agbor is just a figment of some people's imagination. There's a myth about an ancient Ogidi Kingdom that was destroyed sometime around that period you mentioned. I hope that's not what you're talking about. Is it the same Kingdom between Onicha Ugbo and Igbodo? And is Agbor between these Kingdoms? Even Umunede was formerly called Agidi. So if there happened to be a kingdom between Onicha Ugbo and Igbodo that answered a gidi sounding name, you would attribute it to the so called Ogidi?

What Niger Delta report are you talking about? The one that faked an interview with the Dein of Agbor where the Dein said Agbor is Umuleri? Ain't you ashamed to be quoting such things? Do you think we're here for child's play?

cheruv:
Enyi...there's a difference btwn being versed in ika and being an ika. And just like everyone is suggesting, you're not ika

I don't know what to tell you.

desmondneke:
i may not b a cultist but I knw wat u all are saying is pure not true.....I have seen alot of cultist who graduated with good grades and have high paying jobs....many people who didn't join cult and graduated with either good or bad result are still looking fr jobs...cultism dosent shatter ur hopes rather it gives u direction and focus except u carry am fr head......

I have lots of cultists friends, lost some, some got chased away from school and a few graduated and just some other few are living fine in Nigeria. A high degree of them are now living outside Nigeria making money through crime. But I don't understand how cultism gives one direction in life

Igbo people here again doing what they know how to do best

Same gown, same posture. Something must be wrong somewhere

My language has words for numbers up to million.

RedboneSmith:
The point here being that Ikwerre people are descendants of Igbo slaves, and are still angry with Igbo people because of that?

You know the originator of this article doesn't know what he is talking about, right?

Don't mind them. Behold another hypothesis. Soon an experiment will be carried out on it and it becomes a theory then a fact.

Audition? As if she has a choice?

How much was the SARs and military guys paid by Amaechi and Buhari? These APC men are shameless. They're persecuting Wike and Rivers people for having the balls to prevent them from hijacking the election. What about the broad daylight rigging attempt by the APC?

ariesbull:
Tell us the meaning ....That's what I am asking

Of course I know the meaning but I'm not going to tell you because it makes no difference. You guys have been asking for meanings since and when meanings get provided, you twist your comments. Very mischievous lot

ariesbull:
Funny man, now you are not asking if ogele is Igbo ? You are now asking of pronouncing

Ok write the pronounced ogele with accent signs


I will debunk you and also tell us the meaning

Atulu

They are not the same thing. If you read the previous posts, we talked about words having same spelling but different pronunciations and different meanings. This is one of them. But like we earlier said, all you guys need to ascribe an Igbo meaning to any Ika word is similar spelling. You guys have even tried to give Igbo meaning to words that don't even have any similar Igbo word like Ominijie, Agbon, Dein and many other Ika words but you've failed.

Dhugal:
I see that you keep letting slide my assertion you're Bini and not Ika,as you've tried to fool some here with.
Good.
Now,stop beating about the bush.Which town/settlement is named "Anioma",for Nnewi to have borrowed words from?.Bearing in mind before colonialism we rarely,if not hardly,associated with towns across the river.

Please stop. I've always been Ika and will always remain Ika. Anybody well versed in Ika language, culture and traditions must also know much about Edo because there are lots of similarities. I'm not claiming to be well versed in Ika but the little I know helped me in understanding Bini to a great extent

Igboid:
Iduwe, the last time I checked, is not an outsider, neither is Osita Mordi.
I don't agree with all they write, but they sure don't support your Bini crap stories.

Osita Mordi though highly pro Igbo has never disputed the Bini origin. For you to say this shows you don't even know anything about him.

Pa Iduwe was greatly influenced by Onwuejeogu of which he mentioned many times in his book. Onwuejeogu is not a historian because most of his works are speculative and controversial. Iduwe didn't hide his anti Edo bias but he ended up writing lots of Edo cultures, history, names and words without giving acknowledgment to Bini. According to Iduwe, most of these Bini cultures and names actually originated from Agbor.

Igboid:
How exactly did Bini oral story miss out on such a great migration that changed the language of Agbor for ever!
You have failed to Answer this question.
The answer being that no such migration ever occurred.

Your Germanic-Slavic analogy is also flawed, as the Slavic have always been more populous since antiquity, more than the Germanics in Europe.

What are you talking about? Who told you we need Binis to tell our history? And your question has been answered time without number : population.

Igboid:
That's the problem.
Every story about Ominijie/Igidi are through Bini tinted glass.
Bini invaded where we know as Agbor today, established the kingdom and influenced all the oral history of the place we have today.

If an Igbo is to tell the story of Equatorial guinea today, he will call it "Panya", it doesn't necessarily mean that's what the people called themselves.
My point is that we can't use a bini tainted and corrupted oral history to unravel the truth about agbor. I'd rather look at the language.
And until you provide history of Igbo mass migration to Agbor, so much to change the demographics of the area in history, language, in this case remain the best logical tool to analyze Agbor.
The German infiltration of Berlin is well known in Oral history.
There is no history of Igbo infiltration of Agbor. Binis kept oral history, yet such a defining factor in history of Agbor was not recorded by them.

You need to repent from your mischievous ways.

We don't rely on any outsider or any writer to tell us our history. Here you go wrong again.

Dhugal:
For starters,which town or settlement is called Anioma,for Nnewi to borrow words from?.
When did we even actively interacted with the "Anioma town" to be "borrowing" words from them?.
I've had lively engagements with Bini people before,quite lovely and engaging culture,but you coming here to display your ignorance for all,all in a bid to claim a people not yours is something else.
FYI,Ogbe is an Nnewi word too.Same as Ogwa

Who is Anioma for Nnewi to borrow cultures from? What ignorance. Awka and Nnewi borrowed lots of words and cultures from Anioma. For you to ask this question shows debating with you is just a waste of time.

Igboid:
What's the Bini/ Edo meaning of the word "Ominijie" ?

President, the first title of the head of Nigerian state is Clearly an English title, don't you think so?

The word for King in Agbor is Eze, and it has remained so since antiquity till now, that in itself, tells a better story and greater story.

Why are you running back and forth when paid in your own coined? You postulated that the first king of Agbor had an Igbo name hence Agbor must be Igbo. Are you trying to counter your earlier submission now that someone is presenting a superior and more accurate fact to your postulation? How does Nigeria having English title come in here?

Igboid:
Agbor already existed as an Igboid realm before the imperialistic invasion of the land by Edos who renamed the place Agbon.

Good a thing you are now making peace with the fact that Ebonka is an Igbo name as it has no meaning in any Edoid language.

I find your postulations very amusing. When did Agbor exist as Igboid realm? During the Ogiso/Ogele /Ominijie era? When was Agbor renamed to Agbor? What was the previous name before it was renamed to Agbon?

Now I repeat again, Ebonka is not an Igbo name. It's an Indigenous Ika name.

Igboid:
The list started with an Igbo name, Ebonka, and then the period of Bini imperialism started, and the names became Bini, but now with Bini vanquished, the names are now Igbo.

If I Post the list of past kings of Ugbodu, you will notice the same pattern.Firstly Yoruba named kings, interrupted by many Edo named kings, and now Igbo named Kings.

Once Bini power and influence waned, everything in Anioma returned/ is returning to its default Igbo settings.
This is the natural way of things.

You're not making any point. Ebonka is an indigenous Ika name. I don't know where you got it that Ebonka was the first king of Agbor. Agbor is a very ancient Kingdom. Existing alongside Bini. It's the oldest of all the Kingdoms East of Bini Kingdom. The main founder of Agbor was Agbon, an Edo name and the first dynasties of Agbor Ogele/Igiso dynasties existed in a place called Ominijie, another Edo word. Ebonka was the first king of the 3rd dynasty which is the Dein dynasty after the royal quarters was relocated from Agbor Nta to the present location of Imenobi. I don't understand what point you're trying to make.

Igboid:
You didn't see the "Oken Eze"?

alright. Just that? You're funny. That's the greeting I was asking about. So ignored every other which are obviously Edoid and pick out this? What difference does it make if everything you post always point towards Edo and just one or two things either sound Igboid or Igbo. Even your post about the past Agbor kings betrayed your point because among all the names there, you can only find one or two Igbo names and the rest are Edoid and Ika.

Igboid:
By the way, why have you been tactically avoiding this part of my submission.

I didn't see this. What's so special about this? The greetings? Or the Ogele? There are many royal greetings and praise names for Ika kings and that's one of them. I remember when I was little during the Owowor, Ibiewere and Igue festivals, all the songs are music during this festival is for the king. The most popular greetings for Agbor kings is Do Dein; Ni tor nein fe. Is Ogele Igbo ? Please tell me.

thesicilian:
You mean Pro-Buhari vs Pro-Nigeria.

Yes, it should be pro Buhari and Pro Nigeria. I don't know what they mean by anti government. Those pro Buharists are saboteurs, greedy and insensitive.

Igboid:
Igbo sounding in spelling, sure. But Igbo sounding in pronunciation, unlikely.Except those in immediate Igbo vincinity of Kogi and Benue states and the reason for this is obvious.

Igbo sounding in spelling of course but you guys don't care if it's the same pronunciations or meaning when any Igbo sounding word is found in Anioma?

Dhugal:
I make it a point not to call anybody names on nl,but you test the patience of saints nodcock.
I'm from Nnewi,we don't have any historical connection with Ika or Idu that I know few of,Ebo is the word for tribe or large family my side.Shut the eff up if you don't know what you're about.
Last I checked,you were Bini.When did you turn Ika?

Ebo is not an Igbo word. Nnewi borrowed lots of words from Anioma. Ebo is not in Igbo culture. In Edo and Ika culture, Ogbe, Idunwun /Idumu and Evbo/Ebon are used as a form of stratification or structuralization in our Kingdoms and clans. In Ika as well as in Bini/Ishan, Ogbe is the quarter, each Ogbe is subdivided into Idunwun/Idumu and this is further divided into Evbo/Ebons. All these divisions and subdivisions hold their meetings in a place called Egua/Ogua. We have Ogua Ogbe, Ogua Idumu and Ogua Ebon. For anybody to say Ebon has nothing to do with Evbo is the height of prejudice.

Igboid:

Deep up in Taraba, Maiduguri and Adamawa, I've seen places with Igbo sounding names. Some places have names starting with Chuku. Some even Chukwu. I know you would claim it's Igbo names if it were to be in Ika.

Now this is trash, and I'm sure you know that.

Ana akogheri.

there are many places with Igbo sounding names scattered all over the North. You seem to be very ignorant.

We have this same markings in Ika culture and there are a few people alive that still bear this mark. It's called Igu markings in Ika area.

ariesbull:
My friend is from umuahia his name is chijioke ebo

Does it means that he isn't Igbo or he borrowed it from anioma as you said

The last time I checked ked umuahia is far from Edo

fabrications is allowed but by the way, what did he say is the meaning of his name? Some words have the same spelling but different meaning. I stand by my comment. Ebonka is an Anioma name. Ebon is a very important word in Edo and Ika culture and community structure. In all Ika clan, After Ogbe which is quarters, you have Idumus then Ebon. This is the structure of all Ika area

Ebo is not part of Igbo culture reason they don't bear Ebonka or similar names. There are many cultures and words Igbo people borrowed from Anioma. We borrowed from Igbo and they borrowed from us.

Igboid:
Past Deins of Agbor

(i) Dein Ebonka (1270-1307),(ii) Owuwu (1307-1333), (iii) Akina (1333-1460), (iv) Agho (1460-1518), (v) Oguade (1518-1594), (vi) Aisama (1594-1630), (vii) Oseh (1630-1650), (viii) Adigwe (1650-1740), (ix) Dein Modu (1650-1795), (x) Dein Obanor (1795-1795), (xi) Dein Igbe Nije (1795-1885), (xii) Dein Odin (1885-1890), (xiii) Dein Gbenoba (1890-1911), (xiv) Dein Agbobu (1911-1935), (xv) Obi Gbewoba (1935-1967), (xvi) Dein Ikenchuku (1967-1979)(Information obtained from Omania Magazine).


Notice that the first Dein, Ebonka, meaning kindred is greater, clearly had an Igbo name, before the Edo corruption of names started. And we can still see Adigwe( clearly Igbo) surfacing in list, despite strong Edo influence in the area.

I remember asking Agbontaen how exactly did the first Dein of Agbor end up with an Igbo name, when Igbos are supposed to be migrants in the area, he as usual, went livid like most irrational Igbophobic folks, and deflected the question and finally ended up arguing that Ebonka is not an Igbo name, , that it's an Ika name.

Ebonka is not an Igbo name. Only one occasion I heard Ebo in Igbo and it was in a song. Was definitely borrowed from Anioma. There is nobody outside of Anioma area that bears that name. Ebon is from the Edo word Evbo. In all my interactions with Igbos, I've never seen anyone that used this word for kindred but it's a very popular and important word in both Edo and Ika and to some extent Enuani. I've always maintained that Igbo name has been in use in Ika land for centuries but it's not up to 20 %which is evident in all our history, streets schools, names of our ancestors and forefathers, quarters and villages. 90% of all the village names, street names, extended family names, primary and secondary school names in Ika land are Edo. All these things were named after our founders and ancestors. You can only see one or two Igbo names in our history and some of the Igbo sounding names are shared by Igbos and Edo Eg. Edogun/Odogun and Odogwu which has the same meaning in both languages.

Deep up in Taraba, Maiduguri and Adamawa, I've seen places with Igbo sounding names. Some places have names starting with Chuku. Some even Chukwu. I know you would claim it's Igbo names if it were to be in Ika.

Igboid:
What is the relevance of this news article to the topic in discuss?

if you've been following this thread, you wouldn't ask this question. This interview laid bare some of the misinformation your brothers have been spreading around. Eg, the brotherhood between Edo and Agbor and how old in time it extended, the age of Agbor Kingdom and its Monarchy and the hereditary Monarchy of the Agbor people. There are many other points I can get out from it but let's leave it here