₦airaland Forum

Favor99:
No im not gay. Anything but gay. I never complimented him on his looks. If I did that, that would be gay. What I said is not considered gay.
Calling someone "the man" is how bros talk, there's nothing gay about that. I called him cool peoples, what's gay about that? A guy says something positive and that's considered gay?

Oh, you made a remark about his pictures in your other comments. It's a free world bro. I'm not hating. Just curious. And messing with you lol. But thanks for your reply.

Favor99:
Bigfrancis21, your the man by the way.
Your the sh** bro.
Even though I don't agree with anything you say. Lol. But you still cool peoples

You see a fine boy in profile and ... ? Are you sure you ain't gay? Or you're a female ? Just curious. Please forgive my curiosity. Lol

LordIsaac:
Why should he be removed? He is only doing his job and has no time to stroke the ego of the noise makers. He is a political appointee....not a career customs officer just like the Minister of Defence who does not wear uniforms!

Minister of defence is not an A soldier, a police or a custom official. His is very different from comptroller general of a particular force. Compare him with Chief of Army Staff or chief of Naval staff.

bigfrancis21:
See who's calling someone else an imposter. You and your alter-ego account Favor99 are busy responding to one another one by one. Kwantinue.

You know, you get blind when you get too suspicious. You follow what your mind tells you ignoring the facts. You guys have been trying to link me to different monikers that I don't have any link with but blind to that one. I make comments here and continue with the other. I respond to my quote on this account with the other account and vice versa. It took you guys months to notice this despite your nose sniffing? Linking me with agbontae, exotic and the rest while is ridiculous. Says a lot about you guys. You believe only what you want to believe

Comparing masturbation and abortion? What's wrong with these feminist women?

Favor99:
So your saying you are gerg?
You are the same person as gerg?

You can read I believe

Favor99:
Your saying cheruv is an imposter?
Cheruv, is this true? Say it ain't so.
Cheruv, quick quick hurry back here and defend
Yourself. You've got some explaining to do

He doesn't have any relationship with Anioma. Claiming Anioma now makes him an imposter.

cheruv:
The world really is a strange place...when did you change to nosakhare aka gerg

Anyway I've always known that you cire80 isn't even ika talk less of Anioma... You're a full fledged Edo or should I say Bini!
And like I always tell you Bini children, when the time comes you'd all be kicked outta Anioma back to the Benin your émigré parents fled from

You're an imposter. There's a difference between an imposter and an alternate account but going by Nairaland rules, it has to be secret. I've been using both at same person. You're dull to have just noticed this. My comments on the account are same. But I don't open account to claim what I'm not or change ethnicity. I was on a new device and having issues signing in to my account so decided to open one. Now I comment based on the device I'm on. Just to clear the air.

Favor99:
So your half Anioma, half eastern Igbo?

That guy is a liar. An imposter.

cheruv:
Keep digging bro...you'd find gold

Like I said on that very thread, as long as Igbo issues are concerned I can speak either as a Westerner or Easterner bkos I've links both sides.
Now go back to your digging, you need to find more incriminating posts

lol.

MathsChic:
Unfortunately, Nigerians are not one to tell the truth, or open up when sh..it hits the fan. We have to continue guessing. We are dealing with a population (and a pastor) who understand that denial works well in this country and can be effectively used to garner sympathy. In other saner countries, people don't ask for picture evidences or video evidences. Instead, they lay the burden of proof on the accused, while maintaining the right to still charge the accuser for lying or defamation, should the accusations turn out unsubstantiated. Nigeria is just such a confusing place. Accusations are thrown about and in the midst of this it's hard to even tell lies from truth or truth from lies. It's a veritable mix of spicy slime; too damning to ignore and in some cases too ridiculous to accept.

However, while many may continue to deny it, it's clear there's something fishy going on here. The sultry actress, Daniella Okeke, is yet to respond to the allegations. It begs the question: who in their right mind would not immediately flinch and jump to counter these allegations of misdemeanor, if indeed they were innocent?

Second, when the allegations of sexual abuse by this pastor continues to pile, as it does now, why shouldn't we think there's something wrong and he needs to offer better defensive claims than that he is being persecuted by a vengeful government that didn't like his earlier utterances against it?

I have come to the conclusion that Nigerians are just too gullible. When several women came out to accuse Bill Cosby of sexual assault, not a few Nigerians rolled out the drums in support of these women, immediately tagging Bill Cosby an abuser. In addition, the burden was on Bill to prove himself innocent. The details these women shared showed much more than that they were on a well-planned mission to destroy his reputation. Shouldn't the same apply now in the case of the so-called Apostle Sulaimon?

lay the burden of proof on the accused? This shows you're not reasonable at all. You don't know anything about what you just wrote. Do you know anybody can accuse anybody of anything? If I know your identity, I can post your image on blogs and frame up a story on it.

ChinenyeN:
Obuus, what is the tone structure for Ika's "mgba" for wife?



I agree.

Mgba has three meanings in Ika each pronounced differently. Wife, Stove/local fire place and wrestling. It also commonly used for lovemaking between couples, mating in animals, has started breeding or has reached maturity.

blues2022:
You guys are taking it too far. Redbonsmith is one character that is transparent and consistent with his view here. We must respect opinions even if we don't agree. No need taking it personal

This is also my impression of him. Someone must not agree with you on all occasions. If someone does that, I would suspect he's playing to the gallery and doesn't have enough courage to air his opinion and that's one of my turn offs. We should learn to respond to people's message instead of attacking his person. When I newly came on this site, I was being very diplomatic.

Kirigidi:
Point of correction! The title "OVIE" did not originate from '"OVBIE", rather it came from the Edo word "OGIE" meaning "KING".

Yes, we've settled that. That postulations was made by an Edo man. He probably didn't know, I can't tell. But the Ogie version makes more sense.

Kirigidi:
In Urhobo-Isoko, such is called "Orhenre".

Yes, I've stayed in many Urhobo towns and it's the most significant and powerful cult in all Edo and Delta groups. The mode of worship in Urhobo and Anioma is exactly the same. They play the same role in the Kingdoms, the same dance pattern, the same Ododo color and white chalk. I've personally gone to watch the Ihenre Olukun in many Edo and Delta ethnic groups and they're all exactly the same thing. The same everything

bigfrancis21:
The Ukwuani town with relations with Urhobo is the Orogun community who are bilingual in Ukwuani and Urhobo.

it's obvious you don't know anything about Anioma. Keep on displaying your ignorance. There are many Ukwani mixed with Urhobo, some mixed with Isoko and even Ijaw. Those are not what I was talking about Ukwani in general. If you know Ukwani, you wouldn't make this comment

bigfrancis21:
@bold...isn't it interesting how you claimed there is no proof of Igbo aborigines settling first in Ika land but yet went on to make a claim about the percentages of Edo names in Ika land half a century ago without providing your proof of it? Wait, what does that make you?

Is it not funny how you want us to believe that Binis settled in Ika land first, but lost their language to Igbo because of the 'heavy migration' of Igbo traders into Ika land and Igbos changed their language, their names, their town names etc. from 'Edoid' to 'Igboid' without any proof whatsoever for this even though Igbo as a tribe did not exist many years ago, but not the chances of Bini migration and assimilation into Ika/Igbo land?

Here is something to the effect of Igbo settlement in Ika land before Bini settlers came in, as confirmed by Pa Iduwe an Ika historian.

http://people.bu.edu/manfredi/Iduuwe.History.pdf

do you know the difference between 40% and about 40%? I've always admitted that the Igbo influence in Ika is more than just through trade. Ika language has shifted more towards Igbo a long time ago but when you come to names, Ikas surname are majority Edo/Edoid. If you check the prominent Ika people today, you'll find out that they're majority Edo surnames. I'm not going to comment on Iduwe's Apocryphic writing.

As I'm typing this right now, I'm in a flat with up to 8 Ika people and two Igbo people from two different States and they don't understand what we're speaking. I asked them if they understood and honestly they don't. They're like strangers in our midst.

Our worldview and idiosyncrasies is very different.

RedboneSmith:
If Anioma was in the scope, they wouldn't have entered Obi as 'King's house/palace'. They would have entered it as 'King'. You yourself has said it does not mean 'Palace/King's house' in Anioma.

Again: telling you as someone that has actually lived in the east, Obi means palace/centre of authority among these people.

I've spent some time in different parts of the East and I've asked many people what Obi means and the answers I got can't be translated directly as Palace but something close to that. I got many different answers.

When you see the dictionary define Obi as ancestral house of the father (founder) of a village, and Ime Obi and the definition given for it, you will understand that Anioma was part of the scope of the research.

RedboneSmith:
Please, what do you mean the dictionary was talking about the Anioma Obi title? The dictionaries clearly state that Obi is "King's house" or "palace", which has been my argument all the while, and which is something I have always known based on my experiences in the east. How is that talking about Anioma when we both know Anioma uses a different word for palace?

You said Igbo don't call palace Obi, and that is the only reason I showed you those dictionaries. The only reason.

You and I know how dictionaries are written. They pick a word and compile all the possible meanings of that word. Anioma was in the scope of the research and they included Obi being a place where the founder of a community and the Kings Palace because that's how it's being used in Anioma.

I still stand by my earlier comment on how many words being used by both Ika /Anioma and the East have Ika/Anioma origin. But these guys erroneously believe that every of these words must have Eastern origin. I agree that majority have Eastern origin but there are some that has been proven to be of Anioma origin. There are also others whose origin has been lost. But these guys don't ever agree on any having Anioma origin. Some Edo words possibly have Ika Origin too. Even some words shared between Edo and Igbo were passed from Edo to Igbo through Ika and some were passed from Edo to Igbo through Ika. Some have original Ika/Anioma original but passed to both Igbo and Edo at different times. I'm saying this because these guys are very quick to point out how a particular word also exist somewhere in the East, how there is an Ubulu and Aboh in the East ignoring the fact that the existence of such words and places might be because of migration and intermigration of people from Anioma to and also those places. Some of the people that migrated to those places might or might not be of Edo ancestry.

RedboneSmith:
There is no mystery in the Ego, Igho, Egho issue. Linguists know Yoruba, Edo and Igbo are related languages descended from a common protolanguage. They are calle YEAI languages;and you can look it up.

What this means is that just as Urhobo/Isoko, Bini, Esan have inherited some words in common from Proto-Edoid, Edoid, Igboid and Yoruboid have also inherited some words in common from proto-YEAI. One example is the word for money

Owo (Western Yoruba), Ogho (eastern Yoruba), Igho (Edoid), Egho (Ika), Ego (many Igbo dialects).

The relationship is easy to see; gh, in proto-Yoruba changing to w in Western Yoruba dialects.

The Ika form is informed by the location of Ikaland on the frontier between Edoid and Igboid, and not because the word was coined by Ika. None of the participating groups coined it. They inherited it in common.

I didn't say it has Ika origin. I said some of these words shared between and Igbo and Ika have Ika origin but once they see any Ika words used in any part of the East, they conclude it must have an Eastern origin. I only used the Egho for another example and to make another point. And I hope you know that Owo is somehow Edoid.

RedboneSmith:
Come on, you know very well that not ALL the Obis claim to be descendants of the Oba. The Obi of Ubulu-Uku makes no such claim, and Ubulu-Uku is probably one of the most ancient kingdoms in Anioma with over 26 kings on its kinglist. The Obi of Owa also doesn't claim to be a descendant of the Oba. Obi Efeizomor II has written a book where he reiterated what had been recorded in the Intelligence Reports, that the royal line traces its descent from Nri. The Obi of Ogwashi-Uku, another prominent kingdom also traces his descent from Nri.

In Oshimili, claims of descent from the Oba is even less. Our monarch in Illah, Obi Ogbelani most definitely does not claim Bini Oba descent.

So your statement that all Anioma Obis trace their descent from the Oba of Benin is quite extreme. Evidently, you are looking at a culturally heterogenous zone with Bini-tinted lenses, and consequently your views are likely to be quite coloured.



Again, yes, it is a postulation. Without written records that go far back in history, all we can do is postulate based on the information we have. What I have done all along is apply tested rules of historical linguistics on the question at hand. And to the best of my ability, i have done that objectively.

Bias is actually when you reject a theory without a better theory to replace it with, or without an error-proof argument as to why the theory is wrong. We probably wouldn't be having this argument if my theory favoured a Bini origin no matter how weak it sounded.

I know my use of 'all' on the extreme and I was about to modify that. Most would make more sense. But Ogwashi doesn't have a well defined monarchical system of Obis hip. The book purportedly written by the Obi of Owa was highly influenced by Onwuatuegwu. The Obi was just the figurehead writer. The reason a Igbo origin was ascribed to Odogwu was because it's a popular Igbo word. There was no history of a certain Odogwu from Nri that founded Owa. The story has always been of a certain Odugun the son of the founder of Ute Okpu from Bini being the founder of Owa. The people that conducted the intelligence report thought since Odogwu is a popular Igbo name, then Odugwu must be an Igbo man and Onwuatuegwu ascribed Nri to him. The people that conducted this intelligence report were ignorant that Odugun also means warrior in Edo. it's Edogun in Bini and Odugun in Esan. In fact, it's Edogun in Ute and Owa dialects of Ika language. The Nri version is a recent version of the origin of Owa. If I may ask, Who conducted the intelligence report you referred to? Owa people unanimously rejected the Obi's book because of the obvious Onwuatuegwu bias and influence and they also rejected the intelligence report and conducted a fresh intelligence report where they said the founder of Owa was Edogun from Bini and not any Odugwu from Nri. Which makes it another case of no definite agreed origin. I'm not on any side of the argument for now, just so you know. I'm just pointing out something to you.

Yes, I agree that something like this can't be discussed without bias and speculations. I completely agree with that. The reason for this argument is the Igbos that keep misleading people of how Obi is an Igbo title when it obviously doesn't exist in any of the East except those that have Anioma influence. I've never seen any Anioma say that Obi is an Edo word. In a situation where the origin of something is not completely known, coming up with a speculation and throwing around is misleading. For me, either of the side may be correct but I will never mention the Edo origin of Obi in my comments( despite it being more plausible to me) no matter the point I'm trying to make because of the existence of the Igbo version and I expect these guys to do that as well. Because I'll only bring up this Edo version when and only when they say Obi is an Igbo title.

You said I wouldn't be having this debate if you had given an Edo origin even if it didn't make sense? This shows you don't know me at all. I'm not misleading and I don't allow myself to be blinded by prejudice like most Igbos here. I've said that I hold you in high esteem despite the fact that we've argued a lot on Nairaland. I see some similarities in us that's why I said that. I comment based on personal conviction and never to mislead or pursue any agenda. When you said Ovie is a cognate of Ogie and not a corrupted form of Ovbie, didn't I agree with you on how that makes more sense ? I'll only dispute that if I have a more reasonable proof that it's actually from Ovbie and not Ogie. When probs was writing about how all of Ika and Ukwani are Edo with just a little Igbo influence, didn't I condemn his objectivity despite the fact he was arguing on the same line with me?

And what do you mean being biased is rejecting something without a superior argument? I gave you my reasons for rejecting it. My reasons for rejecting it makes lots of sense. Obi doesn't mean Palace in Igbo. Even if it does, it doesn't mean Palace in Anioma. From my research, It means a place of gathering in the family. Each household have an Obi. I've forgotten some things about this but the kingship part wasn't in the meaning. The dictionary you posted was from a research that was conducted which Anioma was part of the scope. They included the Anioma meaning of Obi in the dictionary. I hope you understand where I'm coming from.

Doesn't it make sense to you that Oba can give an Ovbi Oba title to Anioma kings when literally speaking most(if not all) of the first and Early kings (NB: first and early) to use the Obi title were direct descendants of children of the Oba?

Please I modified somethings in the post you quoted before you quoted it. An

RedboneSmith:
You said: "And Obi in Igbo doesn't mean Palace."

Let me re-iterate: Obi in Igbo means palace. The word (obi) has layers of meaning, all of them interconnected. At its most basic level, it refers to the centre of authority in a household or a clan. By extension it refers to, yes, a palace.

But since my words are not good enough, I will attach shots taken from two Igbo dictionaries in my archives. The first shot is from a wordlist prepared by colonial anthropologist Northcote Thomas (who started working in the Igbo field in 1898) and published in 1913. The second is from a dictionary prepared by noted linguist Roger Blench, one of the most prolific scholars in the field of "Igboid" linguistics.

(NB: I see some posts here saying Obi means heart. That is a different obi, and it is accented as óbì. The 'Obi' in question here is òbí. They are different words.)

True, we do not use obi to mean palace in Ika, Aniocha and Oshimili. We use egua/ogua (Ika) or ogwa (Aniocha-Oshimili). And this is a local rendition of the Edo word for palace, eguae.

But isn't it a bit strange that you were willing a few days ago to accept that ovbi, a Bini word for child is the source of Obi when ovbi doesn't mean child in Ika or Enuani, but will not entertain Obi the Igbo for palace being etymologically related to Obi the word for king because Obi as palace is not used in Ika-Enuani? This, quite frankly, betrays an implicit bias that many of us (not just Ikas, but also a great many of us in Aniocha-Oshimili) show when discussions of our dual or tripartite heritage (Edo and Igbo, or Edo, Igbo and Igala) are being had.


Anyway, from a historical-linguistic standpoint, it is not difficult to explain why Anioma uses a different word than obi to mean palace, while possibly retaining (with a slight semantic change) the word (obi) for other uses. This often happens when a language draws heavily from two language-stocks (like Ika and Aniocha drew from Edo and Igbo), and inevitably leads to situations where there are two differently-sourced words meaning the same thing. Sometimes both words are retained like that; sometimes one of the words goes out of use; sometimes one of the words undergo semantic change to refer to something else, but usually remains close to the original meaning.

This happened a lot in the English language, when English began to mix with French following the Norman Conquest. Eg: the English took the French words for pig and lamb (pork and mutton), but modified their meanings, so that pork amd mutton don't mean pig and lamb in English, but only the dead meat of these animals. The egua-obi situation is seemingly similar to the pig-pork situation.

I have already asked twice that you try and come up with a reasonable translation of Ime Obi, but you've brushed that aside twice. A historical linguist will easily identify that phrase (Ime Obi) as containing a linguistic relict. A linguistic relict is a word usage that has managed to retain an older meaning of a word after the meaning of the word has changed in other regards.


You said I was making a speculation. I agree. I myself used the word 'plausible' in my other post, and have used the word 'possibly' a number of times in this one. But speculation or not, this is a far better explanation than all the Bini speculations I have heard concerning the origin of the word.

When one sees two words that are:

1. pronounced exactly the same (òbí, òbí),
2. have meanings that are close enough that differences are likely to be only semantic (palace/centre of authority, king),
3. come from languages that are recognised by all professional linguists in the field as belonging to the same language family (the Igboid language family),

one has to hold some bias not to strongly suspect that it was originally the same word.

My reasons for agreeing that the word Ovbi is origin of the title despite the fact that Ovbi doesn't at present have any meaning in Anioma is because of the role the Oba played in Instituting the Obi title and the fact that all the Kings with the Obi title are said to be descendants of the children of the Oba that went into exile for one reasons or the other. Tell me how the title Ovbi Oba doesn't make sense when literally speaking they were children of the Oba. Even the Igbos here can't dispute that because I heard them say many times that the Oba lorded his children on Igbo aborigines of Ika.

And your explanation about semantic change is another speculation which I'm sure you're aware of your bias here. There's no proof that any part of Anioma once used Obi in the sense of a place of gathering. As for your question about Imen Obi, I'll tell you that there are times that translating something word for word without knowing the history and origin of that thing is misleading. This is where your bias started from. You'll need to find out about the origin of the Imen Obi before you can get the correct meaning. Every royal term in Ika has a story and history surrounding it. You can't possibly attach any meaning to this without knowing the history surrounding it's first usage. So here is another speculation.

The dictionary you posted was simply talking about the Anioma Obi title. Some part of the explanation of the dictionary only described the Obi title as it's used in Anioma and no part of the East except those that have Anioma influence. Maybe now that has added to the meaning of the word. The mistake most Igbos do here is the assumption that any word shared between Anioma and the East must have an Eastern origin because they're majority but it's wrong. Many of the shared place names in Anioma and the East have Anioma origin. For example, many of the Ubulu bearing South East Communities have Anioma origin. I have to find out about the Abohs and others. But Igbos are meant to believe that once they see a shared community name between Anioma and the East, the Anioma communities are automatically the ones that adopted the name. This is wrong. Even some Edo words have Ika/Anioma Origin. and some Igbo words have Ika and other Anioma origin. But why do these guys think that no word comes from Anioma/Ika? I guess that's just one of the downside to being a minority. And any word we used must have Eastern or Edoid origin? Some of these words are indigenous Ika/Anioma words/names being adopted by the Binis and some adopted by the East.

Some words are of uncertain origin like Money is Igho in Bini, Egho in Ika and Ego in Igbo. Watch the way it's changing. There are many of such example that Edo and Igbo have similar word for something and Ika has something in between the Edo and Igbo for such word. It's possible some of the words have Ika origin.

And sometimes when Igbo and Edo have similar word for something, we either adopt the Igbo or the Bini variant for example, Egogo and Agogo, Okute and Okuta and many many other examples. It's also possible some of these words have Ika/Anioma origin.

Chysler:
Thanks you did Justice to that, but for clarity purposes, I want to explain the 3 meanings of Obi in Igbo language

1..(obi-compoud or courtyard) Just like Redbone rightly pointed out, obi can mean the central head compound of a family and can be referred to as where major family issues are trashed by the family elders e.g one can say obi Nnam meaning my fathers compound or obi Eze meaning king's compound e.t.c ... General obi in this aspect refers to a household living arena that's y someone can say in Igbo "ebem bi" meaning where I live.. The "bi" meaning "live" is just a verb of the noun "obi" meaning "compound" or courtyard. It is also worthy to note that obi as a living quarter in Igbo has rank or levels... N that's why we have what is called "isi obi' meaning " head compound" where extended family members leave there own individual "obis" and gather to discuss issues or take council from the most senior member of the family or kindred who is usually the most senior male member of such family who inherited the original ancestral compound from where the other family members dispersed from... This now leads to the second meaning of obi in Igbo land

2...(obi- kingship) ... If you understand the first explained meaning of obi, you would have figured its relationship with kingship in Igbo context... Obi as with regards to king is more pronounced in kingship because the kings palace is where the elders of different kindreds and family clans of a particular village or town, leaving there own "isi obis (a kindreds head compound)" to gather at "obi Eze ( Kings court or compound)" representing their individual kindreds to discuss issues pertaining to the kingdom. Looking closely one can see the correlation between the meaning of obi as associated with kingship in igboland.Therefore the kings obi is seen as the obi of all obis in the community or one can rightly substitute the name of the community or kingdom to be for instance Obi of Agbor or Obi of Onitsha... One can now see how individual obis rose to the level of isi obi as with regards to kindreds and then graduated to highest level of the obi Eze as with regards to the king... One can also explain it to be like this ... The individual obi is just man lording over his household, isi obi is the male head of a kindred lording over the households dt made up the kindred why the obi Eze is the kings court ruling over their entire houseldholds in the kingdom in which the isi obis and individual obis are rightly under it! I hope that explains dt clearly...

3... ( obi- heart).... This also has a relationship with being "head" as with the above explained two meanings . in Igboland it is believe and rightly that human heart is the main engine of the human body and therefore seen as the centre life source of the human being and that's y in Igbo language the heart is called obi with its regard as the life source or head dt governs whether one is alive or dead... Normally when one is being checked to be alive or dead u check the heart beat.. Therefore the heart is the centre ruling other parts of the body therefore it is called obi in Igbo but the difference between this obi and the previous two is in its pronunciation . in pronouciation it tends to go down y the previous two sounds goes up in pronouciation.


I hope I did Justice to that and cleared none igbos who think obi king title has no Igbo origin!

It doesn't because all the parts of Anioma that has the Obi title don't use Obi in the sense you just elaborated it. All parts of Anioma that use the Obi title ie. Ika and Aniocha use Ogua, an Edo word, and not Obi. Which means if they wanted to use Palace as a title of their kings, they would automatically adopt Ogua as title. Obi means heart in Anioma but if the Edo word Ovbi which means child is not plausible as the origin of the title, if you consider the role the Oba played in the institution of Obi title, I don't see how see how heart will be. And the fact you elaborated on many possible meanings shows you're not sure of what you're saying. You're only guessing which one would be the possible origin of the title.

obuus:
@Probz, Ika people bearing Ifeanyi is a recent trend! na wa ooooo!!! Because in proper Ika dialect, it would have been Ihe(n)anyi! i speak Ika very well and there no Ika community i have not visited, from Ute-Ogbeje to Ute-Okpu; from Akumazi and Igbodo to all the Owa towns. i saw a post somewhere where the first four/five obis in Agbor were Igbo names including Obi Ebonka, Obi Adigwe, before the Bini names cropped up.
i had researched on how these names came up in Ika land. Names like Idubor, Osamor, Irabor,etc. Names that the present bearers dont know the meaning! i used to think there was a Bini conquest, but there was none.

Where did you get it that the first five kings of Agbor had Igbo names? Paste it here for all to see. And Ebonka is not an Igbo name. No part of Igboland answers Ebon and Ebon is a Bini name.

obuus:
@Favor99, how can you call Ukwuani Edo? Thank God you said you are from Esan so i expect you dont know what the word ''Ukwuani" means. "Ukwu" means leg, foot; "ani" means earth, soil,ground. It is more of a geographic term describing a people who dwell in the area that is lowland, like a delta, ebe miri be mmadu ukwu n'ani. The term differentiates us from our Igbo brothers who stay north of us in Enuani. Dont rewrite my history. i dont speak your Esan neither do i understand Bini so stick to what you know! Ukwuani is an Igbo dialect. Enough of politics and intellectual dishonesty in matters of linguistics! Ukwuani as dialect is not only spoken in Delta state, you find something similar spoken in Ndoni areas in Rivers and even in Oguta communities in Imo state!

To me, Ukwani have more in common with Urhobo than Bini. Though Urhobo is Edoid but there are so many intermigration between Ukwani and Urhobo and I think that's where all the influence came from. In my opinion, Ukwani speak Ika and Igbo with Urhobo accent. And Ukwanis are so much like the Urhobos in behavior and many other things.

bigfrancis21:
@bold...which is because these people were not the original settlers in Ika land. They are descendants of binis/esans fleeing persecution from the bini empire as early as the 15th century. These migrations occurred over several centuries. Ika land, by its proximity to the Edo area was a receiving 'port' sort of for people fleeing bini and it's perceived woes. Till today edoid-speaking clans such as esan, etsako flatly reject being bini and want nothing to do with them (possibly the effects of bad memories of the past still lingering on), while some chose to re-adopt a new language and identity altogether (those who settled in Ika land). However it does seem that ika land received quite a substantial number of these refugees, and their descendants swole up the ika population even forming their own towns/villages (ozara speakers for example who still held on to their language) after being given land/settlements to farm and live on as it was the norm in the past for villagers welcoming new inhabitants to their land to carve out a land area for them to settle on and farm on, which would in time turn into a village of its own as the settlers assimilated into their village, grew in population and became part of the greater village in a generation or two.

It is interesting how history sometimes only tells one side of the story. Much ado is given about how many Ikas are of bini ancestry but not much thought is given to the possibility of this happening if not for the welcoming nature of ancient ika forefathers who accepted these people fleeing persecution from the oba of bini. Accepted, they never forgot their roots from bini, however the issue is dragging the entire Ikas, especially the igbo aborigines (those with igbo surnames) into their 'separatedness'. I've told some that if you bear a bini surname, it is very obvious you are a bini descendant but it is wrong to drag the entire Ika into coming from bini. That's very wrong. It's just like being given a mile and you turn around to ask for 3 miles or even more. You can't be dragging rights in an area you migrated to few centuries back.

Your comments always smirk of Ignorance and should I say conspiracy theory? You don't know know anything about Ika so please stop commenting on Ika. Saying that there are Igbo aborigines in Ika before the Bini migrants is a conspiracy theory because history didn't record it and you don't have any proof to back it up. And for the last time, there is no disparity between Ikas bearing Igbo surnames and those bearing Ika surnames. Anybody gives any names that he likes in Ika. There's no type of naming convention. About half a century ago, 40% of Ikas bear pure Edo surname 40%, 20% Igbo, about 10% Igboid Ika names, 20% Edoid Ika names, 10% Igboid/Edoid Ika names and about 10% purely indigenous names without any Edo Igbo influence. If we were to go by your logic of Edo surname bearing Ikas being of Edo origin and Igbo surname bearing Ika Igbo origin, then Edo descendants are on the majority as against your postulations of Edo being later minority migrants into Ika land.

There's a post I was following on Facebook which by the title (Ika Trail blazers in the last hundred years and I was marveled how 80%of the elites listed there all have Edo surnames.

Thank God even aboki knows the fight is one-sided and a witch-hunt

kahal29:
The time I am reading this news is Friday, 3.49am, and here Thisday said president arrived Friday 4.00am. Check and put the correct time.

That one tire person oh. Dem for wait make it reach the time before they announce their lies na.

RedboneSmith:
Sigh.

If you had translated 'Ime Obi' for me, it would have aided this discussion. The 'obi' in 'Ime Obi' is not a person, is not 'a king'; it is a geographical location, and that is a very relevant point to note in all this. But I will come back to that.

Now to Ovbie. As far as I can ascertain, there is no word like that in Bini. The word is Ovbi, and it has nothing to do with kingship. It means child; no connotations of royalty whatsoever.

Ovie is not a corruption of this Ovbie (which is not even a true word to begin with; like I said the word is Ovbi.) Rather Ovie in Urhobo/Isoko is cognate with Ogie in Bini and Ojie/Oje in Esan. They all mean the same thing. Ovbie/Ovbi is not in the picture at all.

Note that I said 'cognate'. There was no borrowing involved. All these languages are related (Edoid languages), and as such inherited certain words in common from their common ancestor language (Proto-Edoid). Of course due to the linguistic phenomenon of sound shifts over the course of centuries, the 'j' in the Esan version of the word now varies as 'g' in Bini and 'v' in Urhobo and Isoko.


Coming to Obi. Based on this, if you want to claim that Obi came from Bini, then ovbi (child) is a very very weird source --- it did not even serve as the source in the Ovie example as you thought.

An Igbo origin for Obi is most plausible, although I will still give Anioma (more specifically Aniocha) credit for semantic innovation in the way the word came to be used in the Anioma area.

'Obi' (same intonation, same everything with Anioma 'Obi' ) in Igboland means the central building or court from which the head of a household, or the head of a kindred or a quarter or a clan lords it over his dependents. In loose terms, 'Obi' is a palace. Seeing any relationship with kingship yet? Referring to someone by something it is closely associated with is a common metonymic device, eg. Pharaoh = Great House.

When you understand that 'Obi' started out as a fixed place/location before it became a person, 'Ime Obi' begins to make sense.

now, it makes lots of sense that Ovie is a cognate of Ogie or Ojie but Obi is not a place. That there is a place called Imen Obi
doesn't mean Obi title is a location or Palace. And the closest term for Palace in Ika and Anioma is Ogua and not Obi. An average Ika man doesn't know what Obi means as regards a palace. And Obi in Igbo doesn't mean Palace. Obi Eze and the Anioma Obi title don't have any correlation whatsoever. You should have asked the people that have the Obi title to explain to you the origin of the word before making such speculation.

Chysler:
You Guys are now leaving the substance and chasing shadows ...satisfying the malicious intents of our adversaries... U can choose to ignore them and focus on what the thread is meant for...

Your brothers have issues with suspicion and are very fast to declare suspicions as facts same way they propagate theorems this moment and next moment they start quoting it as facts. And y'll like chasing shadows. Not something new