₦airaland Forum

do u know NOETIC3 was immediately banned again. . . ,  i laugh in spanish. . . , so much for the peace of islam and love of allah


@ Mukina and Jarus

I keep coming back to the forum regardless of the ban, not because I am idle, but cos its my way of saying, that my views and opinion cannot be suppressed.
u are both really DRUNK!

Riff-Raff:
D burden of proof lies with mr who says wat does not exist does.

do u know the meaning of a "belief"? I doubt u do.

olabowale:
@C-NOETIC: Let me help you to understand; Islam says Jesus son of Mary has not died. Are you familiar with fainting, since Islam says that it was made to look as if Jesus son of Mary died? Think hard, my man. There is actuality and there is what may look like it. What looks like it is not necessarily it.

So how can a man who has NOT died be raised? or was the koran LYING?
uhmn. . . .I am hearing ur "feinting" analogy for the first time. where did the koran state that Jesus fainted?

Allah the Creator and Master and Sender of Jesus said Jesus son of Mary did not die. Do you know better than the One Jesus prayed to, petitioned for protection?  Your Bible says that the Lord sent help to Jesus to strenghten him. Are you getting it, if only a little?

No, I dont. But ur koran said "blessed is the day I will be raised". Where is He being raised from since He never died?

And why did u have to resort to the bible, isnt it "corrupt"?

Since there was no death yet, there is no raising up, yet. If when everyone is unconscious is death to you, then everyone whois in deep sleep dies and raised up according to you. Some peoplecould actually be deep in their sleep that you may think that they are dead, What about those who claimed that they died and returned to life? Did they really die? If your answer is so, then they have shared a specific quality with your Jesus, according to your Bible. I wonder if that makes them, prophets like Jesus son of Mary.

Islam claims Jesus did NOT die. . . . .but will be raised.

So I am asking . . .  .where will He be raised from?

huxley2:
Au contraire - Mr B has been given some information about GOD which are clearly contradictory and the best position for him to take is to suspend belief in GOD. So in effect Mr B has no substantive information about GOD. The info he has so far amounts to saying that 4 = 9, which is illogical and make no sense.

why is Mr B's belief dependent on Mr A's?
why cant Mr B explicitly explain . . . . .the very essence and origin of life? . . . . .The scientific or intellectual capacity to belief in "anything"?

why is Mr B always refusing to defend his postulations/beliefs?

huxley2:
Au contraire - Mr B has been given some information about GOD which are clearly contradictory and the best position for him to take is to suspend belief in GOD. So in effect Mr B has no substantive information about GOD. The info he has so far amounts to saying that 4 = 9, which is illogical and make no sense.

in other words Mr B cannot scientifically or intellectually analyse his belief.
can Mr B define his belief? can he scientifically explain them? can he express them intellectually? can he defend his beliefs?

To base ur belief on presumed "contradictions" (4 = 9) is neither scientific or intellectual. what then is the basis of such belief?

huxley2:
OK, let us replace GOD with TEQATA. Do you believe TEQATA exists.

I have no appreciative "knowledge" of TEQATA, as such to "believe/disbelieve" in TEQATA is impossible.

But Mr B clearly "believes" in the non-existence of GOD, why does he have a problem when his "belief" is placed under the microscope of scientific knowledge?

olabowale:
Noetic, Sorry, C-NOETIC, I hope you can read. Allah says in Surah Nisaa that Jesus did not die and was not crucified. And then the verse 33 of Mariam which seem to go have gone over yur head says "peace upon me, the day I was born, (done already), peace upon me the day I will die (not happened since he was a babe talking about his future death, while defending his mother and telling the rabbis that he was a prophet to them; the children of israel), and peace upon me the day I will be raised up again (an even that shall take place after his "peaceul death".

why does He need to be raised again, since islam claims He never died.

He said "Peace be unto me the day I will be raised up again" The key words there are raised and again.
when did He die to be raised again?

huxley2:
No.  He has no problem. To him the word GOD is ontologically meaningless as the word  TEQATA, FAIRIES, SUSSICORN.  Can you convince him that these other words represent non-existent entities?

To ontologically define an "entity", u must have an appreciative knowledge of that "entity".
so the ontological definition of GOD is not in any way linked the Mr B's belief. For Mr B to believe in the non-existence of GOD, it is safe to assume that he has an understanding of GOD. That "understanding" is what this thread intends to probe scientifically and intellectually.

He simply believes God does not exist, he should scientifically and intellectually tell us why (evidences).

To those who feel cheated by the system . .  .  no one will ever say sorry to you, dont expect it, cos u will never get it.

To those who feel they control (manipulate) the system . .  . the fear of the unknown resonantes the fact that ur oppresive tendencies and insecurity exposes u to the ills of the same society u abuse. This is evidenced in increased kidnapping and piolitically motivated killings.

There are no victims, casualties or abusers of the system, we all in reality are players of the system. Nigeria is a product of our collective inactions, tribalistic and nepotical inactions/beliefs. Many of us believe in a peaceful and better society but The greatest mistake our parents made was never to stand up to what they believe in. will we stand up?

unless and until we collectively revolutionalize our nation ( not as divided tribalists but as a people tired of the staus quo) we will remain the very same and bequeath our sorrow to the next generation.

No2Atheism:
So does that mean you prefer not to teach me what you know that i don't know. But is it not easier for you to teach me directly what you already know so that when i go back to the internet it becomes easier to build on what you would have already taught me by answering my questions.

Alternatively should i assume that you don't have answers the questions listed.

that might be a safe assumption . , .

huxley2:
OK, Mr B needs to justify his positions just as you need to justify your belief in Santa Claus, Fairies and Sussicorn. How's that?

why does Mr B have a problem stating his case?

we will never find out how deeply currupt he is, until he relinquishes power. wait till 2015.

Mr A believes that there is a living and existing GOD.
Mr B believes in the nihilance/non-existence of GOD.

Both Mr A and B must be able to analyse and define their beliefs, within the concepts of scientific knowledge, intelectualism and rationality.

To the advocates of Mr B's postulation, I ask: what is the scientific evidence for the non-existence of GOD?

what is the intellectual evidence for the non-existence of GOD?

olabowale:
@C-NOETIC: Please tell us how you can say that death by crucifixion is peaceful? Or being raised up from such a painful death with pains still lingering all over the body, according to your Bible is peaceful?

Verse 33 of Surah Mariam, has shown us by that the birth of Jesus son of Mary was peaceful, without difficulty on him. Afterall, his young mother delivered him, without any adult helping her. Just ask any mother how their children faired at births? Mary even benefitted from the "peace" of the birth of Mary, since she was consoled and received the comfort of producing ripe dates for her, in a "miracle" only recorded in the Quran, as a dead and stumpy remain of palm date tree was brought to life to serve this purpose. Your Bible have no real and verifiable story about his birth, except the 3 wise men visit calling him king.

Let me explain something to you about Semetic culture; No man who is a believer and wise will enter the place of a woman that is not permissable for them to see in private. This is the very reason when the Angel appeared to her to announce the future birth of Prophet Jesus, she was startled, scared of any possible arm and then seeked the protection of her Creator, if the person was evil. And when Jesus was asked later in life if he was the King, he was recorded to have denied or said nothing to affirm it. I am very clear that if he was called a king as a baby, when he was growing up, he would have been told, hence there was no reason to deny such title when it was crucial to his case. I summit that it was just a "feel good story" from your Bible. It begs all traditions, since even now my mother still talk about my bloodlines; her's and my father's. And I never let my children where they came from, regardless of their many visits to Nigeria. They somehow know their heritage. It is not possible for a royal blood to behave like a slave, if he was always called a King/prince/noble blood from youth.

By the way the Mary also was provided with water to wash and bath her baby, upon birth. Now when Jesus returns and lives as a member of Muhammad's community, then he will at the end dies. His death will be peaceful, by Allah's will. When all mankind is being raised up, Jesus's ressurrection will be peaceful, without the usual pain and difficulty in both cases of death and being alive, again.

surah 19:33 state that He will die and ressurect. How do u reconcile this prophecy to the islamic notion/belief that Jesus never died and was never ressurected?

I am particularly concerned about the fate of women and children in islamic countries.

So I seek answers to the following:

why is inferiority of the womenfolk a norm in islam?

why should a man have the right to beat a woman? (quran 4:24)

why would a disobidient woman go to hell? (koran 66:10)
why is rape tolerable in islam? (koran 4:3, koran 4:24)
why can a muslim woman marry only one husband, but the guy can marry four?
why can a woman not be able to ask for divorce? (surah 2:229)

Why does islam condone the maltreatment of the weak, feeble and defenceless? why are women treated as such?
ever heard of honour killings?

olabowale:
@C-NOETIC: Prophet are ordained by God to people with message. They say with their mouth that they are prophets. Awolowo never said that he was a prophet. Go back and research it. Maybe another prophet for the Christians, since the work of the "original prophet" never complete? What was the name of that prophet with shurdy or incomplete work to the Christians? Thats your first mistake for opening a can of worms wit me.

So if anyone says he is a prophet, he is automatically one. . . , right?
ur argument is flawed. what are the attributes of a prophet? What is the common denominator of all prophets?

A prophet must have a message. . . . his message must be reconcialiable with the "GOD" he proffeses.
A prophet must show "works" from his sender. . . .this works could be good deeds, deliverance or miracles.
A prophet must make and reveal prophecies.

These are three ingridients of a prophet I subscribe to. Which of them does mohammed fulfill?
Mohammed claims islam is a religion of peace . . . . .yet he postulates the killing of "infidels" and gives no right to non-believers.
he also advocates jihad (violence and oppression) as tools for converting unbelievers.
So how do u reconcile mohammed's message of peace to his deeds that are enshrined in violence and oprresive inactions?

Which miracle did mohammed perform? I am not aware of any. please educate me if there is any miracle from mohammed.

What prophecy did he make? you should be able to tell.

Messengers are higher in spiritual and prophetic office than prophets. All prophets are not messengers. But all Messengers were prophets along with their messengership. Messengers were given Books (Kitab), or Pamphlets (Suhuf). Muhammad got Quran, and Jesus had Injil when it was not polluted, while he was alive in their community. David was given Sabur and Moses was gien Taurah. Ibrahiim (AS) was given Suhuf, and so where others. Moses even got a Suhuf. If you in good conscience can disparage Quran in Arabic, then I ask you what will you do with the Old Testament, Psalm and New Testament, all in English, different and apart from Aramaic, the semitic language in which they are revealed?

who is mohammed, a prophet or a messenger?
and what exactly is the relevance of all these u stated above?

The other day, I was neading a cousin of mine who is a Christian about the tower of babel. I asked to imagine how high the Babel will be when the Biblical God get furious with the people, and confused their tongues so that they cant understand one another? Can you imagine a God who is afraid and concern that humans (His Creation) will catch up to Him? IA GOd who is afraid is no God, but a fake God. Unless the story that brought about that idea of a God getting worried is a lie. I can not imagine myself accepting as a true God a God that is afraid of His Creation.

I often wonder if in the days of Tower of babel the Engineers knew how wide the base of a tower that is 1 mile high? Is it possible that man can build a tower in those days to a height of 5 Miles? What will the base be, considering the fact that humans advanced in knowledge in every generation if compared to the generations before. This brings me to the pyramid period, a later generation. See that the pyramids are just fractions of 1 mile, yet the base is always wider than the height. And yet today, the shuttle journeys and even all the moon and space craft journeys that current man have engaged in, have not scared the Most Powerful Creator. I hope that you will reflect on this matter, which will confirm my statement of the probability of the tower of babel story as something that scared God that He therefore quickly confound mankind to not understand one another. Today, collectively, men understand one another, another proof of the bad storyteling.

Finally, Quran itself in Surah Al Rahman disproves it by challenging man to conduct space explorations! By the way, it was the number of man that worried God in the Babel story, but the height of the structure that was build. The West have penetrated the space. The Arabs have built tall buildings, which I assume to be taller than the crude period structure of babel. The arabs and mankind are still here. By the way, we don't have a story like that in the Quran, but the refutal of it is well established as I have pointed it out in the Surah Rahman.

This in my opinion is very irrelevant to the issues being raised here.
What's your position on surah 19:33

To proof the valilidy of a prophet and messenger, there must be basic information that will be available. The Christain King of Byzantine's story is a very good story. Disproof it. I can tell you many more things, including the time of the death of Muhammad's son, and it coincided with an eclipse. While the companions were attaching the celestrial phenomenon t the death, the prophet (AS) told them that it had no relationship. Thats another sign prophethood, honesty even when he was the only one who knew it and if he had said it was, no one would have doubted him, even with the current scientific knowledge. As I have said, please open your mind and understand the truth.

Nothing that happened in life that a person with perverted intention can not give it a twist, regardless of how "unnatural" it may actually be! Proof; people still believe that there is no God. People still believe that the earth and galaxies and plants and humans, etc and space and beyond (Heavens which do not believe exist) just happened. They foolishly state, that it is tiny particle which only has a position, but no mass, that became all of these! They say an action known as Big bang acted upon it. One ask them; where did this tiny particle came from, and then the force that acted upon it? They will never give a straight forward and simple answer. And when you challenge them that how is it possible that this tiny particle can produce such a "Bang; loud noise" and finally brought about these complex beings, human is one of them, can come about this particle?

By the way the same people will say that "energy can not be created". I wonder how this tiny particle can swell up to all of us, and even future human discoveries?

I can talk to you about the kindness of Muhammad, in supporting a complete stranger and others against his paternal Uncle; Abi Lahab, in Makka while he and his companions were being oppressed by the community. I could talk to you about his actions in Makka and Madina to alleviate the conditions of the inhabitants. In Madina, he was loved by Jews he came in contact with, since they knew he was that Madinan Messenger which they have been expecting. This is the reason that AbdulSalaam became a Muslim when the campaign of Huud began. In the defeat of Makka the Muhammad gave a full amnesty to all Makkans, including those who ate the heart and livers of Hamzah bin Abudu Mutalib. Tell me a prophet that have shown such mercy, if you consider Jesus on the cross, according to the Bible not forgiving the Thief on his left, and we never heard that he forgave Judas Iscariot. Please provide proofs. Finally Muhammad's Quran can bring some happiness to the heart of the Christians that Mary was not a lose wman, based on the saying of the Jews. And that Jesus was not killed like a common worthless criminal. If dont understand it, tough.

The Jews can also use the Quran to protect themselves from the swords of the Christians when they think it will help them, since Quran says that the Jews did not kill Jesus. Miracles started before his birth and even before his parents were maried. Read the Sirah. THe same way that you can proof that Moses, Jesus and others before Muhammad (AS) were prophet of God, will be the exact process that Muhammad can be proven.

I am not succintly denying mohammed's prophetship, to do so amounts to bias. I am simply asking u to state the qualities/attributes of any given prophet and let us together deduce and decide if mohammed is truly a prophet.

Kindness is not a measure of prophetship. I am far kinder than the above stated, does that fact alone make me a prophet?

davidylan:
I think the latter was correct. Many of these folks dont really understand science at all, they simply use it as a cloak for their unbelief.

I am tempted to think that their unbelief is a function of angst at the system, hopelessness and rejection from society. The annoying part is how they tend to hide it under the cloak of science.

mazaje:
thou discredited lair. . . . how many time will you be caught lying all over nairaland? you began by asserting something i asked you how and you reply with a non answer. . . . .

I can never take ur title away from you. . . .you hold the record of several lies per thread on nairaland.

Have u ever established the non-existence of GOD, either scientifically or intellectually?

surah 19:33

where is olabs, blabs787 uplawal et all to explain this.

davidylan:
lol and how many of you "understand what islam is"? Is that not the basic premise of this thread . . . that NONE of you truly understands islam if not you'd be here at least sharing parts of the quran that speaks to your hearts?

all these grandiose borrowing of christian language to sugar-coat islam wont work.

i still dont get how the "corrupt" bible can lay credence to the "holy" koran. It just doesnt fit neither does it make sense.

mazaje:
What we know is science but what we don't know we call god.

false. what science doesnt know it calls "big bang".  it uses "may" "could" "might" to describe its short fallings.

Science is man's approach to answering pertinent questions about every day life. It does not contradict the existence of GOD.
At least no one has been able to scientifically establish the non-existence of GOD.

have/can you?

what is the will and word of your god? does your god know any science? why then did he tell his people to chose to write his book that the sun moves from place to place and that evil spirit causes diseses. does your god know the science behind the formation of the rainbow? does your god know the science behind genetics? he surely doesn't because if he does he wouldn't inspire his men to write [b]about the ridiculous genetic engeneering that is found in the book of genesis. [/b]does your god know anything about cosmology? if he does he wouldn't say that stars will fall from the sky on the day that jesus will return to the earth.

this "issue" has been addressed on several occassions on nairaland. ur disdain for superior argument is depriving u from learning.  

what are the genetic contradictions of genesis?
how can u acsertain that the sky will not fall when Jesus returns?

mazaje:
how? 

isnt it obvious. . . . . .were u not a participant at arriving at this conclusion?

Badriyyah:
*smh* Science and technology is not a RELIGION. But if you feel they haven't contributed anything to society, next time you're ill don't go to the doctor, infact, why don't you turn off your PC right now. It's one thing to be religious, but it's another to say these people who are trying to make life easier for us are not doing a good job.

why are u trying to seperate God from science? When u advocate a seperation, u are proclaiming another religion called . . . . .

science is simply the evidence of man's evolving knowledge which is never in contrast with the will and word of GOD. You cannot pin ur disbelief in God on science. Science cannot establish the non-existence of GOD.

pilgrim.1:
There are several threads already on the subject of 'does God exist'.

and nearly all these threads have established the very existence of GOD.

Tùdor:
@mushin
The only way allah is gonna open my heart is if he blows it up.
Mukina2, we have a right to protest your constant harrasments.

olabowale:
@C-NOETIC: Have you not been reading what the Muslims have written on Nairaland? The fact that you do not believe, with this much "venom and or hatred" is truly a sign of his prophesy. Read the Quran and find out how "intensed is the dislikes" of the disbelievers are of Muhammad (AS) and his followers in Islam and their very religion.

how can disbelief and doubt be a prophecy?
people disbelieving in the future of nigeria must have been a prophecy from obafemi awolowo, does that make AWO a prophet?

what were the miracles of mohammed? what were his good deeds to those who did not believe in him?
how did he win them over. . . . .with love or sword? what makes anyone a prophet?

His Book, the Quran is still in original, at it was from the time of revelation, before it was written down on patchments. Today that it is in a Book it still remain origin. As a matter of fact, if the Quran, in written forms were to disappeared as the wish of so many "disbelievers; the powerful or the not powerful" there will not be any significant effect, if there is any at all. Those who will believe in the future generation of mankind, will get Islam from the voice of those in their generation have the Quran in their HEARTS!

This is a miracle that no other Book can match. Easy to learn, memorize and recite. It is the sweetest and most powerful words you can hear from the tongue of believers. It affects the heart like no others. Its story which is similar to what you find in the "Bible" is more comprehensive, in substance and message and details. Read the story of Yusuf in the Quran and compare or contrast it to what you find in the Bible. They are not equal.

While the Quran tells us that Yusuf clears and restores his own honor by demanding that the woman who was after him, sexually confesses that she was in the wrong, the Bible said no such a specific detail. Read also about how Yusuf asked Allah to let him go to Prison so that he does not perform sexual illegality. Show me the same "protection wish list" from Joseph in your Bible story. While the women in the high society of Egypt gossip at the incidence, the lady after Yusuf threw Banquet and for appetizer/dessert, gave the women at the dinner table fruit and knives to slice them. Then she ordered that Yusuf be brought in in expensive clothing and jewelry. Te women were so captivated and in awe that they thought that he was an "Angel", which is the reason that they cut themselves, thinking that they were cutting the fruits, numb from the pain of the cuts, because they were dazed and entranced by Yususf;s beauty!

Give me the Bible version, please. Other parts of the Quran will point you aright. For one, the Quran says that God is One and nothing is like HIM.

what has any of this got to do with the topic at hand?

how do u tell a lay man, with no religious affilliation (i.e neither christian nor muslim) that mohammed was a prophet of "GOD"?

Tùdor:
Mr daniluv
if you lack understanding,then disappear from here.
Did it ever occur to you that he created each acronymn after he got banned. . . .
You're a damn moderator,at least pretend to think like one.

I actually think the guy has reading and comprehension problems.

Tùdor:
@mushin
i simply want to inject life into this dead section. BTW, what islamic issues do people discuss here? Take a goddamn look around.
To the rest of you churning out bullshit about ''islamic science'',why does allah expect you to scale seven mountains and seven seas just to understand his scriptures?
If one has something reasonable to say,aren't you to come out plainly and directly? Is only when delusions and absolute nonsense needs to be passed along you require complicated ''codeology''. Go figure

Chrisbenogor:
If you talk to God, you are religious. If God talks to you, then you are definitely psychotic

how can u deny an event because u have never expirienced it?

Abuzola:
@Tusa, u lack reasoning, i said in iraq alone 4,000+ soldiers and u are quoting million muslim globally, tsew

and u can actually reason? please give ONE justifiable reason for violence in islam?

Chrisbenogor:
I see this is what you have been up to eh noetic eh?
How can you even accuse anyone of being brainwashed, I would ban you yet again if I were an admin.

did u read his post at all?  he said he knows next to nothing about islam because he is not a scholar. So I am curious to know what qualifies anyone to be a scholar?

If u simply subscribe to what u hear, without any assimilation, isnt that brainwashing?

Tùdor:
Nice to see i'm not the only one being harrased by the mohammedians. The intolerance those hounds display is heart busting.
I believe you're just wasting your time complaining to the admin. I have been harased,insulted and banned several times and complaining to the admin is just a serious waste of time. I sent emails,complained on the forum and nothing.
I would'nt be suprised if the servers are hosted in a mosque.
My advice noetic is don't quit. Re-register coz people have to stand up to these islamists and point out to them the barbarism of their religion as well as the lies and falsehood they represent. They might not admit it,but some are begging us to save them from this savage club.A potential convert might read our posts and see islam for what it truly is and there's no doubt we'll have a happier and safer world.

I feel ur point. . . .and well done for the nice issues u have continued to raise on the forum.