₦airaland Forum

winner01:
can you name the christian countries that have ever existed?
Is there any other historically literate human reading this who thinks the dark ages had anything to do with the church?

Just to be sure you deserve my refutation cos this is the stupidest thing I've ever read.

Lol even after efficiently refuting this, you still come up with something this stupid? Ehn dalaman?

Thomas Jefferson simply wrote a letter to the Danbury baptists assuring them of their religious freedom. Freedom from government interference. This is where the word "separation of church and state" was paraphrased from.

Even Jefferson was echoing the language of the founder of the first Baptist church in America, Roger Williams who had written in 1644,

"A hedge or wall of separation between the garden of the church and the wilderness of the world."

Can't you think by yourself for once? Must you regurgitate stale lines always?

You must be stupid if you think I'll refute this after my initial point.

I'm sure one or two people learnt from my initial reply. You're on your own if you're this dull.

Peter, a disciple of Jesus, while with Jesus, bore arms. He struck one of the men who came to arrest Jesus, we all see how Jesus responded.

But really dalaman, you really are bitter, unintelligent and willfully dishonest too. You should chill out, this is too much stupidity.

HeavenIsSoReall:
No blind person etc shall go without been healed.

HeavenIsSoReall:
I challenge you to come to this crusade with the following people.

* The blind

* The lame

* The deaf

*The dumb

And anybody with terminal disease including HIV/AIDS.

What God will do here will marvel you.

winner01:
Many reasonable atheists avoided this thread due to obvious reasons. Like I pointed out earlier, a few honest atheists do not share the dogmatic outlook and crusading spirit of your type of atheism, and expectedly you don't agree with their honesty. It goes on to show how open minded you are.





Freedom of speech and association is actually as a result of the socio liberal freedom of christianity as the op rightly pointed out. Compared to several Islamic states today and atheistic states that existed in the past e g atheistic Russia, Cambodia, Albania etc.
In those countries, freedom of speech and association is significantly suppressed as supported by their constitution. You could easily get arrested by speaking against state recognized beliefs and practices just as is happening in China today. Below are some evidences that shows that atheistic countries and their leaders had a dangerous idea of an utopia which suppressed freedom of speech, thought, opinion, association and religious beliefs (in order to spread atheism) just like Islamic countries.


Article 37 of the Albanian Constitution of 1976 stipulated: ‘The State recognizes no religion, and supports atheistic propaganda in order to implant a scientific materialistic outlook in people’

"Party organisations must direct their most serious attention to the improvement of atheist propaganda. Anti-religious propaganda must be more offensive, combatant, more direct. . ." - Mzhavanadze (at the 20th Congress of the Georgian Communist Party), Zarya vostoka, 26 January 1960.

“It is furthermore imperative to put the propaganda of atheism on solid ground. … It is necessary to produce a book on the church's struggle against naturalism.” - Maxim Gorky (Founder of the socialist realism literary method and a political activist), Letter from Gorky to Stalin, November 29, 1929, on the organization of antireligious propaganda

"We want to sweep away everything that claims to be supernatural and superhuman, and thereby get rid of untruthfulness, for the root of all untruth and Lying is the pretension of the human and the natural to be superhuman and supernatural. For that reason we have once and for all declared war on religion and religious ideas ..."- Friedrich Engels (co- founder of Marxist theory), Review of Thomas Carlyle's Past
and Present, 1844

"The Communist Party of the Soviet Union is guided by the conviction that only conscious and deliberate planning of all the social and economic activities of the masses will cause religious prejudices to die out. The Party strives for the complete dissolution of the ties between the exploiting classes and the organizations of religious propaganda, facilitates the real emancipation of the working masses from religious prejudices and organizes the widest possible scientific educational and anti-religious propaganda."- Political Program of the CPSU (Communist Party of the Soviet Union), adopted March 22, 1919 at the Eighth Congress of the Russian Communist Party, section 13

"We must deepen a revolutionary world-outlook, we must fight the religious prejudices in the youth and approach the youth, including those having religious prejudices, with the maximum pedagogical attentiveness of the more educated towards the less educated. We must go to them with the propaganda of atheism, for only this propaganda defines the place of man in the universe and draws out for him a circle of conscious activity here on earth."- Leon Trotsky, The Position of the Republic and the Tasks of Young Workers, 1922

“Communist society will bury forever all mysticism, religion, prejudice and superstition and will give a powerful impetus to the development of all-conquering, scientific knowledge. ... One of the most important tasks of the cultural revolution affecting the wide masses, is the task of systematically and unswervingly combating religion-the opium of the people. ... the proletarian State ... carries on anti-religious propaganda with all the means at its command and reconstructs the whole of its educational work, on the basis of scientific materialism.” - The Programme of the Communist International. Comintern Sixth Congress 1929

To mention a few, these are writings from the constitution of atheistic countries and the product of the minds of the leaders of atheistic countries. You will surely agree with me that I could have been killed if I was outspoken about my Christianity and at the same time against those forceful atheistic dogmatic quotes, provided I existed in those countries.

There are obvious reasons why we don't have too many outspoken atheists in Islamic countries and why we don't have too many outspoken Christians in countries like China.
Christianity is the reason we have many outspoken atheists in the western world, Christianity is the reason for your freedom, Christianity is the reason you have a voice son, be grateful.

As expected, regurgitated atheist arguments.

"Separation of church and state" was a phrase used by Thomas Jefferson and others expressing an understanding of the intent and function of the Establishment Clause and Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States which reads: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

The intent of this clause was to limit the power of the Federal Government in regard to religion thus ensuring "freedom of religion in the United States of America."

In other words, you got this one totally backwards. Separation of church and state wasn’t put in place to protect the state from the church; it was created to protect the church from the state!

The founding fathers came to the country primarily for that very reason – for freedom of religion. They were fleeing a country that was attempting to impose restrictions on their ability to believe or worship freely. Their whole purpose was to make sure that the government of the United States never imposed itself upon a citizen’s right to believe or practice their belief without government interference.

So with that proper understanding and historical context, what does separation of church and state mean today? Or what should it mean?

The founding fathers were clearly not ignorant of what was going on in atheistic countries and many other parts of the world, and majority of them being influenced by their religion, Christianity, they sought to impose freedom of religious worship, thereby protecting their freedom of worship. This freedom contributes to the reason why atheists have a voice in today's western world.

This is as wrong as they come. Naturalism did not give birth to all the scientific processes that drove their scientific achievement. As a matter of fact, many early proponents of science were against naturalistic ideologies.

Legends like Agassiz, Pasteur, Lord Kelvin, Maxwell, Dawson, Virchow, Fabre, Fleming, etc. were against naturalism, darwinian evolution and other pseudoscientific notions.. Even those who lived before Darwin were strong opponents of earlier evolutionary systems, not to mention pantheism, atheism, and other such anti-supernaturalist philosophies, which were every bit as prevalent then as now.

Sir Francis Bacon, is credited with formulating and establishing the scientific method! They seem also to have been able to maintain a proper "scientific attitude," for it was these men (Newton, Linnaeus, Faraday, Pascal, Kepler, etc.) whose researches and analyses led to the very laws and concepts of science which brought about our modern scientific age. The mechanistic scientists of the present are dwarfed in comparison to these intellectual giants of the past. Even the achievements of an Einstein (not to mention Darwin!) are trivial in comparison. The real breakthroughs, the new fields, the most beneficial discoveries of science were certainly not delayed (in fact probably were hastened) by the creationist motivations of these great founders of modern science.

I gave relevant examples in this thread, on how major breakthroughs in science was accomplished by several Christians as well as other religious believers.

Really how has this made the west enviable?
I won't even bother to counter this until any atheist tells me if it is wrong to outlaw the following:

1. Sex between an adult and a consenting minor (paedophilia)
2. A human and a consenting animal (Bestiality). Several animals have different ways of communicating consent.
3. A human and a dead human (provided the dead human consented before death) (Necrophilia)
4. And other sick sexual acts.

If this can be viewd as sick by you and your peers, then you have no moral rights to blame those who view same sex union as sick. That's some double standard.
If one if confused on which gender he/she is, one can simply look inside his/her pants.

Its still part of the socio liberal freedom associated with Christianity that created capitalism.

For those who are interested, you can click here to find out how Christianity created capitalism

As explained earlier, you owe your freedom to Christianity. Women in Saudi were recently permitted to drive, they recently gained some level of freedom. Hopefully atheistic China and north Korea can follow suit and stop the clamp down on churches, Christians and online christian materials and watch Christianity grow massively.




"Be sure of this: The wicked will not go unpunished, but those who are righteous will go free". - Proverbs 11:21.

Jesus was simply speaking figuratively on peace and forgiveness. Peter for example, did not fully understand this, thats why he attacked those who came to arrest Jesus. Peace and forgiveness is very important in our world today and many people will agree with this. Peace and forgiveness is the only hope and voice of the repentant criminal and the wrongly convicted. Peace and forgiveness is why many federal government are reconsidering certain punishments such as the death penalty.


Its good that some atheists are not as dogmatic as you are, and its also expected that you won't agree with honest atheists. Its only natural that you guard your "religion of unbelief" with jealousy.

superhumanist:
What do you mean by "self-confessed"?

Butterflyleo:
Prove that you have by posting it here.

Butterflyleo:
Now you want to lie abi?

Are these not your words?




The OP was not talking about your hodgepodge lame relativism jargon. His focus was on morality and even at the so called separation of church and state they still could not deny the foundation of the morality used despite the separation. That is the point of the OP. But trust you to deny this obvious fact and twist it for all its worth

Butterflyleo:
Yet logic failed you when you needed it most. Sorry. No be me do you

Butterflyleo:
You stopped short of saying "most of what he stated are true"

When you say "some of what he stated are not true" then that means most of what he said is true.

I bet it was shame that made you leave that obvious part out.

I am surprised you did not present your usual lenghty rebuttal as you always do. Could it be because it was an atheist who stood here for Christianity?

superhumanist:
What if Ebuka didn't reply?

hopefulLandlord:
This is a terrible spiritual problem, it means generational powers from your family's lineage is monitoring you and preventing you from progressing in life. You need special prayers from a man of God like me. We will fight the spiritual battle together and we'll overcome. first step is you'll send this months 100% of your income to me so I can start fighting the battle for you. Do this fast before your situation gets worse

God bless you

Butterflyleo:
Yes it is indeed a big blow when an atheist begins to sing the praises of Christianity and the morals found therein when other atheists like frank317 or is it franky317, hopeful landlord and dalamama would find a way to lie through it.

I don't think they are avoiding the thread though. If and when they see if, they will simply say their usual "hodgepodge of strained relativist talk of nonsensical situational ethics" as observed by the atheist John Steinrucken.

Winner01 do I speak your mind?

winner01:
So the one I talk no sensible?

Why are you so bitter?

Udemeeyenabasi:
Extreme distress, helplessness and hopelessness are the experience of those who have not God. Utter confusion and dismay are their lot. It is easy to be an atheist when you have good health and your business and family is going well. However, it is not easy to be an atheist in the midst of the excruciating pain of sickness and diseases. It is not easy to be an atheist in the midst of overwhelming tragedy. Surely the lot of those God has abandoned is terrible and tragic both in this world and the world beyond this...Those who God has abandoned will be cast into the unquenchable lake of fire, hell, where their eternal torment has no fitting description!

winner01:
To dey argue on the same thing over and over, day in day out, nor dey tire you?

I really admire the zeal of many atheists to remain here and win converts after so many years.

Shows how heavy the subject of God is, on your hearts.

Ranchhoddas:
Somewhere speaking big grammar and trying to convert people with bad logic.

bloodofthelamb:
Alert!

Atheist invasion.

hopefulLandlord:
Let me learn from you, can you tell me what can happen to someone God has abandoned but can never happen to someone God hasn't? please give answers based on something testable and verifiable eg "Only someone God has abandoned would fail a school exam/get hit by stray bullet/be electrocuted/burn alive"

Udemeeyenabasi:
Hmmm...I can't imagine I am hearing such blasphemous words from you all. Well, no matter how bad your situation is right now, I encourage you to turn to God. He will never abandon you if and only if you are one of His people...

SirJohn:
SirJohn is alive and strong, been watching from the sidelines.
Some of the topics we brought to the fore and debated hotly on NL several years ago later became household topics of discussion.
'Tithing' was one of them, I believe every thought on tithing was treated on NL before Freeze made it a national issue.
I'm glad that the passage of time did what most of us coming together on NL could not do, many things just unravelled on their own.

Good ol' days mehn!!!

Idango:
How can somebody who is still finding it difficult to beleive the existence of God be able to understand what it is to speak in tongues.
Stop discussing what you know nothing about.

Obi1kenobi:
Even when I was a committed Christian, thirsting for the redemptive message of the Gospel, it was probably the one thing in the Pentecostal canon that I couldn't being myself to do, cos it felt like self-deception.

MuttleyLaff:
This is a johnny-just-come-lately overflogged "speaking in tongue(s)" topic
and looks like Satan is about having a party with this thread for the gullible, exploited, misinformed, misguided and misled

Hell too, will soon be empty, as all the devils will mark register here on this thread

jaxxy:
How can u treat a awhile senator like a common criminal. It's very wrong. Did he commit murder or wat? Why shud he be taken to koji state at the risk of his life and fair process. What has happen to the police HQ in abuja? Our police shud act with sense pls.