₦airaland Forum

Christians know that Jesus thought idiotic pasificm and all of them NEVER practice it because they know that it is not only idiotic but impossible.

urahara:
Why did celestial beings... angels.... make use of man made objects like swords and trumpets?

Why ?

Something is fishy.

Gods always behave like the people who make them.

Cc

Dalaman

Johnnydon22

Hahn

Seun

Frosbel2

Winner

Kingebukasblog

Butterfly1on

Martinez19

Felixiomor

According to the bible Yahweh couldnt defeat some people during war because they had Iron Chariots.

Daviddson:
The answer to your question is very easy to give. If I give you a straight answer, it won't do you any good. I'd rather keep giving you an indirect response. I think it'll make you think more...

Why won't a straight answer do me any God?

Daviddson:
You do but not everyone does. Same way you don't feel it's right for God to cast people into eternal hell and many other people feel otherwise.

Will you burn your disobedient child in fire for days unend? That's the question. Your refusal to answer it says alot.

Amberon11:
Do you find killing a murderer or life imprisonment a just punishment?

Sure I do. Will you burn your disobedient child in fire for days unend?

KingEbukasBlog:
God's nature provides a reference point for moral values and duties . Moral goodness like love , peace , patience , harmony [/b]etc are of His nature. Murdering someone isn't an act of love or of peace and harmony but of hate , violence , wickedness - these are incongruous with the nature of God

[b]So as an atheist , why is murder right or wrong and on what basis did you make your judgement ?

Are you sure your God's actions potray peace, patience and harmony? His actions in the bible says other wise.

"Sa 15:2 - This is what the LORD Almighty says: ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt.
1Sa 15:3 - Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’ ”

If murdering someone isn't an act of love but of hate , violence , wickedness, then what do you consider this injunction of total annihilation of people including infants and animals to be? Where is the patience, peace and harmony in this act? Do you consider the killing of infants an act of patience and love?

They are good because they are in accordance to God's nature as the epitome of moral goodness . I tried circumventing the euthyphro dilemma but you still brought it up anyway . The third option is that God's nature is the standard - His laws stem from His nature as the paragon of moral goodness .

As an atheist , why is something morally good ?

I see totalitarian and draconian acts in your God's nature. Acts that are very immoral even by his standard that you listed earlier.

KingEbukasBlog:
I don't know the categories . Its of no use to list them . The professor's explanation was clear . Admit that you were wrong

If it were clear you'll be able to name the categories. The Pew research gave down the categories. Your Pfof opinion remains his own.

I'm trying to explain what it means to be non-religious to adherents of different religions . Feigning ignorance again ?

He asked what would be the judgements of non-believers . And when someone reincarnates , the judgement is in form of how the person lives his next life .("Whatever you sow , you must reap" ). I called upon the President himself , who has a clear understanding of reincarnation in Christianity to explain further if need be .

I really don't know what to make of this

urahara:
This was exactly what they told my uncle.

They were even making fun of Christians.

Telling my uncle that Christians were just wasting their time worshipping a mere man

If you go to Israel and engage them you'll be shocked. Some of them don't even believe Jesus existed. They believe the Jesus stories were just fabricated stories made up by the ancient gentiles of the Roman empire. All of them believe Jesus was an impostor. Bottom line is that they are anti christians and I really do NOT know why Nigerian christians support them. They hate christians, and they HATE black people.

KingEbukasBlog:
These are Rabbis and professors who actually live in Israel and understand their own people . It is rational to accept what the experts say while you are just making noise . Non-religiousity in Israel is actually different from what being non-religious means . There are official religious categories which if you are not part of in Israel , you'd be seen as non-religious

What are the categories? List them lets see.

Its similar with Shintoism in Japan , the adherents say that they are not religious simply because they don't see Shintoism as an organized religion . Some Confucians in China would say that are not religious because they see Confucianism as a lifestyle not a religion .

Just the other day a twitter follower said that she isn't religious and when I asked if she was a deist , she said "no" that she isn't deep into religion but maintained that she is a Christian . That means the non-religious to her is someone who holds religious beliefs with less ardor than usual .

Dalaman , there is no generally accepted meaning of non-religious in fact .

You have no serious argument again .

Pele

Classic KingEbukasBlog, jump from Judaism to shinto, to deist later to Hinduism. I saw you play that game with your christian friend by bringing reincarnation into a discussion that has nothing to do with it. He ended up by saying he hopes he understands what you are saying, he clearly doesn't, he just didn't want to drag on with it.

KingEbukasBlog:
I'll answer this later sir . Can't type it

Can't type it or you want to run away from it as usual? I know you very well.

You can watch Dr Craig vs Sam Harris' debate video on YouTube . Sam Harris was expected to provide a basis for objective morality without God and he ended up embrassing himself .

To save you time because Sam Harris was bloviating as usual , here is why it's senseless to say you can have objective morality without God . And apparently, I was wrong about universal moral truths , universality isn't objectivity

https://youtube.com/watch?v=cDQzijl6El4


This is the second time I'm showing how unreasonable Sam Harris has been with the things he says and there are many of them yet Nigerian atheists hold him in high esteem .

Please watch the video , it answers so many questions.

I asked you a question and in your usual way, you are telling me to watch a video that does NOT answer my question in anyway.

How is God the basis of objective morality?
Can morality be objective without God? How is God the source and being that establishes objective morality?

urahara:
Loool

Even my uncle that has been to Israel affirmed that those people no get time for bibeli

Going to Israel is what sealed my faith and made me a full blown athiest like 4 years ago. I was astonished when I realized that the people weren't christians, they were anti christians. They hate christianity and christians (i.e the practicing Jews). Some of the people were interested in knowing why we left Africa to come and look for evidence of a Jesus that never was, that's the impression I got from those that I interacted with. They felt we should be Jews instead of christians because they had more evidence of their Jewish figures/ history than that of Jesus/ christianity to show us.

KingEbukasBlog:
Please read this article and understand the report and stop arguing abeg

http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Gallup-Israel-one-of-least-religious-countries-398823

They made a survey and the data were drawn from people who responded to it . Are you saying that 8.5 million of Israeli-Jews responded to it ?
Please tell me you are indeed joking .


Excerpts from the article .



Prof. Yedidia Stern, the vice president of research at IDI.

Aside from those who are self-identified as either religious or secular,

“the rest are traditional but not necessarily religious by self declaration,” he explained.

“Eighty percent believe in God.

Are they secular or religious? If we are speaking about [halachic observance], then many are not.

But if you ask if they believe God [is] relevant to Israeli life and they believe in it, then Israelis are a very religious kind of country,” he said.

Learn to read. This is the opinion of a professor based on a 2009 poll conducted by Israel Democracy Institute that contradicts the latest Gallop poll.Israel Democracy Institute poll in 2009 said that 80 percent of Israeli-Jews believe in God. The Gallop poll was conducted in 2016.

According to Uri Regev, a Reform rabbi and head of the religious pluralism NGO Hiddush, Israel’s “religious politics and established, coercive, rabbinate are the main forces responsible for undermining Israelis’ Jewish identity.”

Those who replied that they are not religious were “mostly expressing their dissociation from those who claim to represent the only authentic and binding Judaism, and from their interpretation of Judaism,” he said.


Asked about the WIN/Gallup International poll, Dan Ben-David, president of the Shoresh Institution and an economist at Tel Aviv University, agreed, stating that it appeared to present “a binary distinction [i.e., yes or not religious] rather than one of degree – so maybe most people abroad believe in God, and thus consider themselves religious.”

“Here, on the other hand, the religious ‘categories’ are already taken by the entire spectrum from traditional to ultra-Orthodox, so even if you believe in God but do not count yourself in one of the officially religious categories, then your tendency in Israel may be to say that you are not religious.”

Here are explanations of what it means to be non-religious in Israel by Rabbis and professors . You didnt read the article and you are jumping up and down with excitement ;

This is a person that is just giving his OPINION of the poll. He was not part of the people that conducted the poll, he was just giving his own opinion on how he assumed people answered the questions which may or may not be true.

OLAADEGBU:
That is where you're missing the point. The Infinite, Uncreated Creator wrote that truth for us about 3,000 years ago and true scientists are the ones who discover it when they think God's thoughts after Him.

Will you keep quiet. So the unknown people that wrote the bible are your God abi? You are insanely deluded.

Daviddson:
Ask judges who have had to sentence criminals to death - by gunshot or hang or lethal injection. Justice demands that people receive recompense for their actions. But God is merciful. All you need is to turn from your sin and accept His forgiveness....

You are speaking from both sides of your mouth. People that are served with capital punishment are usually people that end other people's lives, their own life is also ended by the authorities.

That is very different from torturing and burning a person with fire unended.

Your God is not merciful. To be merciful means to treat people better than they deserve. Any God that sends people to hell to burn forever is not treating them better than they deserve and can NOT be said to be merciful, so it's a lie your God is NOT merciful.

You have deliberately refused to answer my question. Why you burn you disobedient child in fire for days unend?

KingEbukasBlog:
Where does it say they don't believe in the bible ?

Surveys only cover a little percentage of the population and then extrapolations are made .

People who identify as secular are mostly adherents of modern orthodox Judaism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Orthodox_Judaism

Stop spreading lies

Will you keep quiet. I just showed you research from some of the most reputable polling firms that show that Israel is one of the least religious countries and you are still spewing thrash.

Majority of people in Israel are NON religious. They do not believe in any Religion and do not practice any religion. Chew on that and stop sounding like a person that can no read.

Those that believe in the bible are a minority in Israel today.

Even you link shows you don't know what you are saying.

Modern Orthodox Judaism (also Modern Orthodox or Modern Orthodoxy) is a movement within Orthodox Judaism that attempts to synthesize Jewish values and the observance of Jewish law, with the secular, modern world.
It only says that mordern orthodox Judaism attempts to synthseize Jewish values with secular values. You clearly dI'd not read it.

KingEbukasBlog:
What kind of dirty lie is this ? The Jews that I've conversed with all believe in the bible. Some Jews are even Christians. One of the best and most educated theists on the internet @AStratelates on twitter is a bible-believing Jew.

The Modern Jews are the ones who obsessed with bible prophecies and their fulfilments. Only 8 percent of Israeli-Jews are anti religious . Stop telling lies .

You don't know what you are saying. According to Pew research non religious Jews constitute the largest percentage of people in Israel.

http://www.pewforum.org/2016/03/08/israels-religiously-divided-society/pf_2016-03-08_israel-01-01/

As you can see the the Hiloni constitute the largest percentage.


From.Wikipedia:

Hiloni (Hebrew: חִלּוֹנִי‬), plural hilonim (Hebrew: חִלּוֹנִים‬), derived from the Hebrew word hulin, meaning "secular" or "mundane," is the term used in Israel for non-religious Jews, some of whom identify with Jewish secularism and secular Jewish culture.[1]

Most Jews living in Israel are non religious.

From one of the leading Israeli newspapers.


Israel Among the Least Religious Countries in the World


Only 30% of Israelis say they are religious, survey finds; Thailand is most religious country in the world and China is the least.


https://www.haaretz.com/news/world/1.651616?v=150EF83CD4A46B2F18DD7E0CB6522268


From the Jerusalem post another leading news paper in Israel. It also says Israel is one of the least religious countriesin the world


http://m.jpost.com/Israel-News/Gallup-Israel-one-of-least-religious-countries-398823

Daviddson:
Yes. I believe so, unreservedly.

Can you burn your disobedient child with fire for days unend?

hopefulLandlord:
Then it also becomes problematic cuz the bible said Jesus described the literal kinda hell

The question now is how much twisting and turning do these deluded people have to do before saying "fork this sheet! I can twist no more"

Women are NOT to teach in the church, women are to cover their head when in church according to the bible. Christians are to turn the other cheek when slapped, christians are not supposed to take each other to court according to the bible, christians are supposed to take their sick ones to the church elders for healing.

Majority christians do NOT abide by this biblical injunctions. They also have no reason to accept the babaric and insane idea if hell.

It just shows that they are more humane than people that put forward the barbaric and sadistic idea.

urahara:
Heck, even Jew's don't even believe in hell.

They see it as nonsensical

Most mordern day Jews don't believe in the bible anymore. But hell as a place of eternal fire is not a Jewish tradition. It has never been. There is no hell in the OT, it is a new testament tradition.

Daviddson:
But you mustn't subscribe to those view if you find them contrary to the Scriptures; should you?

If there's no hell then why is this your post of any importance? : According to no-literal-hell belief, there's nothing to fear about after-death then? No judgement for evil doing. No reason for believing in God then. Is this not what unknown to you you're almost trying to say?

Do you find hell as a firey place of eternal torture a just punishment for unbelief?

Daviddson:
@KingEbukasBlog
Sorry to say, but you're beginning to sound like an atheist, deist, etc. Those prolonged arguments with atheists on Nairaland seem to be taking some subtle toll and influence on you bro.

How can you say you don't take Bible literally? So Jesus Christ who spoke about hell describing it vividly made a mistake?
And you also said the Creation account in the Bible is not as it is. These kind of views are mostly expressed by deists and their ilks.
This is what I warned you guys about in one of my threads last year but you said you're arguing for fun. When did Christian apologetics turn to fun?

Many christians that don't engage with atheist in debates do not agree with the view that hell is a place of eternal firery torture. Many find that barbaric and refuse to accept it.

Most European christians do not believe or accept that hell is a fiery place of eternal torture.

As your morality evolve you'll change your view on hell. Anybody that believes that people deserve to burn in hell eternally for unbelief is a scum and worse than a terrorist.

What offence will you disobedient child commit to you that will make you burn him forever? Tell me.

KingEbukasBlog:
Well then

+ dalaman

Morality is concerned with our senses or beliefs about what is right or wrong behaviour.

Then for objective morality : What is morally wrong or right does not depend on our personal views of right or wrong behaviour . More like universal moral truths .

Subjective morality : What is morally wrong or right depends on our personal views and we can agree or not agree personally on what is right or wrong .

Let me just agree with you about objective morality. Pls can you show how God made and establish objective morality and how every body that sees or agrees to it will know that it is God given?

Can morality be objective without God? Aagain how is God the source and being that establishes objective morality?

johnydon22:
I understand the perspective KingEbukasblog is addressing the problem from.

And I also understand that of Dalaman.

KingEbukas argument on this is valid, if morality is subjective on what basis do you accuse God of evil?

Because based on a particular subjective moral outlook God may be evil but on a different outlook that evil is good.

I think a definition is needed here.

What is morality?

If you say morality is objective, that is just a vague statement. What makes something moral?

Is it objectively moral because it is just like that without reason or is it objectively moral because there are elements/tenets or effects that makes it so?

We must define morality.

Once a definition is coined, subjectivity and objectivity comes second place

KingEbukasblog what is morality?

KingEbukasBlog:
I can see that you want to feign ignorance.

With subjective morality an atheist rapist could argue that he has done good just like the serial rapist Ted Bundy tried justifying why he rapes nd murders women To him, God has permitted good .

You have no serious argument Mr.Dalaman

Yet Ted Bundy he was arrested and imprisoned? Even he knew his act was evil because he never did it in the open. He stalked his victims and attacked when he knew no body was there. He never attacked them in the open where people will know he was with them and raping them. He always made sure he did it away from everybody and when nobody was there to see him because he knew he was doing an evil thing.

That aside, can you define what morality is? As Jonny said, once you are able to do that, we can put the issue of objectivity or subjectivity to rest.

One of the best female Nigerian artist of our time.

agarawu23:
I careless

Olawalesadiq:
how that one take affect me..

Bia. . Na only wuna waka come?

KingEbukasBlog:
You don't get it . If there is no objective good or evil, how can you say for sure that we perceive the same evil and the same good ? There is no agreement between us that there is "evil" around us . What if I see it as good ?

Morality doesn't have to be objectively good for it to be appreciated. The Muslim's endearment to sharia is an example I've always used to show prove that to you. To the avatar muslim the sharia is the perfect and objective moral system as prescibed by the creator of the universe and humanity as a whole. His objective moral principles are stated in the sharia. Do you agree with the sharia as an objective source of morality? No you don't but you and a muslim can live in the same society and agreed on many things together as morally good or evil despite the fact that you DO NOT SHARE THE SAME VIEWS AND IDEAS ON OBJECTIVE MORALITY.

We do not have to agree that morality is objective to know that gratuitous evil exist in our world. Even if morality is objective then it is humans that made it so because humans are the creators of every moral systems and not God. Name one moral principle that was made by any God on its own without human input, when it was made by such a God and how it was made by such a God on its own without any human input. Go ahead am waiting.

KingEbukasBlog:
Whats the obsession with evil sir ? If God does not exist , everything is permissible. There'd be no good or evil . How could there be evil if there is no such thing as objective morality? What you see as evil could be good to the next person . So is evil actually being permitted or what you perceive as evil - which could be perceived as good by another .

Only if you agree that there is such thing as objective good and evil, then your question would make sense !

If not , what you perceive as evil , is simply good to another .

Comprende sir ?

We've argued and argued over this things in the past. I just want you to tell me the morally sufficient reasons why your God allows all the gratuitous evil we see around us. This is not a debate on (objective) morality.

ChimaAgbalajob:
The weapons were supplied to Boko Haram by our own Nigerian army officers. Look at the serial number on the guns.

Nope, must of the weapons Boko Haram use are weapons they capture from Nigerian military. They've attacked many military barracks and installations in the past and made away with very high caliber weapons. They shown the videos many times in the past. There was a time they made away with so many weapons that Shekau clearly stated in the video that the weapons will last them over 2 years and they will use them to capture the entire country. He then thanked Allah for giving them such a very big and magnificent victory according to him.

They tied up those boys and executed them in cold blood.

Which cold blood? If ht Boko Haram boys capture them , they usually behead them, why treat them any better as if they Boko Haram boys will ever show them mercy and treat then we'll. They should kill them all. Tie them up and shout them or cut them into pieces if they can. The Boko Haram boys do not show any mercy and they also shouldn't be shown any.

QuietHammer:
You mean Ebuka is a member of this church? It's unfortunate for such a bright lad.

Seriously, but am sure he has left the church, a bright mind like that can not remain in such a cesspool for too long.

According to KingEbukasblog, God has morally sufficient reasons for allowing evil to happen.

Can the christians here tell us the morally sufficient reasons why their God allows all the gratuitous evil we see around us?