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Religion / Re: Correcting Freeze's Heretic Assertion That "Jesus Drank Alcohol" by damosky12(m): 12:11pm On Feb 29 |
Ken4Christ: Can you calm down and read. Stop this bubbly hurrying to give a blanket rebuttal like this. I am believing you have self-control. Respond paragraph by paragraph if it'll help. Go over it. Then respond by reasoning from scriptures. That's what I did. Not this "it's your opinion" fallacy. Show that the scripture contradicts my stance. Do the epistles tilt more towards encouraging alcoholism or discouraging it? And bracket your bias for a second. I'm believing you can. Na "4 Christ" dey your name so. The evidence is before you! |
Religion / Re: Correcting Freeze's Heretic Assertion That "Jesus Drank Alcohol" by damosky12(m): 11:43am On Feb 29 |
Ken4Christ: Awesome study. I see you found amongst those expressions, "not given to wine" (alcohol in that context). You also found the use of "excess of wine," "not given to much wine." The word, "given" there is word that relates to a habit. See... It's a word for craving. That's instructive. Now, the use of "much wine," "excess wine," etc. was not a license for the church to indulge the appetite with alcohol. That's been a common beer parlor justification. Wear your thinking cap, Jesus condemns drunkenness. His Apostles did same. And it's unquestionable. Hence, their use of "not given much wine," cannot mean "given to small wine." In 1Tim 3:3 and Titus 1:7, He outrightly says "not given to wine." In other words, he doesn't have an habit of taking alcohol. No use of much or excess.
If you read the context of this portion, it has nothing to do with alcohol. You are reading your mind into it. It had to do with food offered to idols. Full stop. And why? The answer is in verses 4 to 6. There's nothing like an idol. Jesus Christ rules over them all. So that "liberty" is theological one. It's an exercise of dominion over idols. Alcohol isn't part of this liberty o. 🤣 Alcohol? Liberty ke? Now see my main point again: I don't encourage believers to indulge their appetite with alcohol. The Apostles didn't. Why? 1. Drunkenness which comes from taking alcohol is sin. And being GIVEN TO alcohol begins with taking a bottle for fun. If I want to help a believer live without worries of falling into alcohol addiction (as the point you even made), I would teach staying clear! Why? Drunkenness and being given to drinking are lurking. 2. There is no Biblical measure of the amount of alcohol that will get you drunk. You can use alcohol. To cook. To make medicine. But drinking is to indulge your appetite for it. There is no saying how much of it you'll take to get drunk. Some would be drunk after a cup. Some, after a bottle. CONCLUSION: Let's shelve this beer parlour justifications and do better things. No godly pastor would infer in his teachings that christians who don't take alcohol can go ahead to try it out. That's where a christian should be. We are not unbelievers who glorify our flesh that much. |
Religion / Re: Correcting Freeze's Heretic Assertion That "Jesus Drank Alcohol" by damosky12(m): 7:33am On Feb 29 |
MaxInDHouse: Ok, my guy. More beer to your table! 🤜🤛 |
Religion / Re: Correcting Freeze's Heretic Assertion That "Jesus Drank Alcohol" by damosky12(m): 7:22am On Feb 29 |
MaxInDHouse: Go and freely drink your burukutu brother. Don't mind me jare. |
Religion / Re: Correcting Freeze's Heretic Assertion That "Jesus Drank Alcohol" by damosky12(m): 7:16am On Feb 29 |
Ken4Christ: I carefully read all you typed. Please, read this too line by line. Don't skim through. This is a fallacy of false equivalence. Its basic logic! This scenario doesn't align with the scenario of taking alcohol. Indulging your appetite with alcohol isn't necessary for anything in life. It's not courtship. It's not eating. It's not sleeping. It's not central to normal life. Biko Why this forced uneven equivalence? Also, self-control is to stay away from it. If I can't control my appetite to stay away, one bottle may become two. On a day you feel down, it could become a crate. Especially in this age of abundance of alcohol. So, it's Christian practice to self control from the fanaticism about alcohol.
This your constant repetition of this woman woman has me concerned. Are you really battling lust?
This theology is disturbing! I guess Jesus didn't know this when He constantly flouted the ordinances of Moses. Pause, open your Bible, go read the story of Jesus' stance in the first few chapters of John 8. Read the first few chapters of Matt 19 (to verse 6). I could send more, but you may be impatient. Now, see this: Galatians 5:4 [4]Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. Galatians 2:19,21 [19]For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. [21]I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. 1 Timothy 1:9-10 [9]Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, [10]For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; Note also that Paul writes that practicing an aspect of the law as a justification from the law (i.e. circumcisions) is to be a debtor to the whole law. Galatians 5:3 Anyone with a wholesome knowledge of the Bible knows that the law wasn't written to you. You LITERALLY cannot cherrypick ordinances of the law that justify your obsession or lust whilst leaving the rest. Abi should buying slaves because the law of Moses permits it? Or I should utterly destroy enemies that oppose God because the law permits it. There's a reason why Jesus and then His Apostles were hated by those Jews. And there's a reason why the early believers were called CHRISTians. Shelve your activism for alcohol for a sec. Wear thinking caps.
Well, the singular difference is this: Romans 6:14 [14]For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. It's not hard to see that grace and law don't mix. You are not a disk jockey that will mix some part of the law that justifies your appetite with some parts of grace that suits you. The law had its purpose; that purpose was to lead the ancient Israelites in the times they were and in the unrefined culture they lived in to grace. All the ordinances had symbolic meanings that aren't for us. This includes that one verse you're using to justify your alcohol. Read. Galatians 3:24-25 [24]Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. [25]But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. You see why, if you want to follow the school master that is done away with, you are a DEBTOR to do all. You can't seek justifications from the law. That makes you a debtor for all the law. You choose a part. 2 Corinthians 3:13-15 [13]And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: [14]But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. [15]But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. You see. You can't cherrypick the law, especially the ordinances.
Paul need not write everything explicitly. For instance, he didn't wrote to Timothy to flee youthful lusts (in 2Tim 2). The word he used was "epithumia." it's a Greek word also often used by Plato. It means "an unhealthy longing." It's an expression that has to do with appetite. So, he needs not tell Timothy not to fornicate or to use porn. That covers it. Is alcoholism an unhealthy longing? Answer that. Can a bottle spring to two bottles and more? Do you stand a chance of drunkenness or getting attached to alcoholism when you indulge your appetite with alcohol. Now Paul severely warned against drunkenness. Jesus did, too.
Dogma is a philosophical term that connote unreasoned beliefs that are strongly held to. They have no basis. Here's a simple reasoning against alcoholism for a Christian. If I would flee sin, I would practice not indulging my appetite with anything that may lead me to sin. Especially when the thing is not a necessity and has no important connection with my existence. So many believers out of devotion to God don't indulge their appetite with alcohol. Drinking is where drunkenness starts from. Why not avoid drinking which you can? Caveat: If you drink, I am not condemning you. This thread, written years ago, wasn't for that purpose at all. But the ideal Christian conduct is to be clean from such indulgence. I don't know why this is raising much dust! |
Religion / Re: Correcting Freeze's Heretic Assertion That "Jesus Drank Alcohol" by damosky12(m): 11:29pm On Feb 28 |
MaxInDHouse: Wo! 🥱 Go and be drinking your buzz jare. Shelve this infantile hide and seek. |
Religion / Re: Correcting Freeze's Heretic Assertion That "Jesus Drank Alcohol" by damosky12(m): 9:32pm On Feb 28 |
Ken4Christ: First, google "fallacy of false equivalence." Dating, btw, isn't a Bible practice. Let's say courting. Courting or speaking with a woman on nothing sexual or lustful is will in no way lead you to fornication. But taking alcohol would. It's like tempting yourself... If the Bible calls drunkenness (intoxication) sin, I want to flee indulging my appetite with alcohol in its totality.
Under the OT, the Jews were instructed to offer burnt offerings, to not shape their hair, to kill children that insult their parents, to kill/banish fornicators or adulterers, etc. Don't cherrypick Bible verses. If you want to live by the law, let's know you want to. Here's the simple point. Think through it. If alcohol is what leads to drunkenness, why should I practice indulging my appetite with it? Is it compulsory to take it? Is it necessary? Is it important? And cant it cause you to stumble (figuratively and literally, yes). As a personal devotion to God and to His word, many Christians don't take it. And that's the ideal, virtuous mindset. |
Religion / Re: Correcting Freeze's Heretic Assertion That "Jesus Drank Alcohol" by damosky12(m): 9:17pm On Feb 28 |
Aemmyjah: Correct! Feel free to drink jare. You can add more bottles sef. Don't force the Bible into your narrative. BTW, do you know fresh palmwine is unfermented and isn't alcoholic. Hope y'all know that? |
Religion / Re: Correcting Freeze's Heretic Assertion That "Jesus Drank Alcohol" by damosky12(m): 9:15pm On Feb 28 |
MaxInDHouse: Abi na. The same God who commanded the jews not to stone the woman caught in adultery. If you would follow the laws, why not follow all please. Jesus spoke against drunkenness. Moses' laws didn't. We are called Christians not for following Jewish laws, but the teachings of Christ and His Apostles. The OT is only relevant within the scope of their teachings. I thought this was basic though. |
Religion / Re: Correcting Freeze's Heretic Assertion That "Jesus Drank Alcohol" by damosky12(m): 5:36pm On Feb 28 |
MaxInDHouse: Eh ehn. Was that written to you? Na wa o. Why not read the totality of Deuteronomy na. Burnt offerings, fruit tithing, capital punishments. 🤣 As per na you be ancient near Eastern jews |
Religion / Re: Correcting Freeze's Heretic Assertion That "Jesus Drank Alcohol" by damosky12(m): 5:27pm On Feb 28 |
Aemmyjah: 🤣 Paul wrote wine. You saw alcohol. Una get issues o. 🤣🥱 That literally was "fruit of the vine (grape)" which was prevalent in Paul's time and in Ephesus where Timothy to whom he wrote was. Simple, honest research should be saving you guys' these embarrassment, but una sha wan justify una alcoholism. Sorry o, no be for this Bible. I left a screenshot for you. Galatians 5:19-21 [19]Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, [20]Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, [21]Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. Even with this una obsession with defending taking alcohol, we can already infer drunkenness. If you feel you should start to search up and down to defend your appetite for beer, that's not so different from the man in the beer palor drinking to "satisfaction." Again, if I would not be drunken, I would not drink. The journey to being drunken is to indulge my appetite with alcohol.
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Religion / Re: Correcting Freeze's Heretic Assertion That "Jesus Drank Alcohol" by damosky12(m): 5:13pm On Feb 28 |
Aemmyjah: Shebi you've been rooting for alcohol all over this thread. I give you the full approval as the OP. Go on soun with your bear and azul jare. Thread closed biko! |
Religion / Re: Correcting Freeze's Heretic Assertion That "Jesus Drank Alcohol" by damosky12(m): 5:10pm On Feb 28 |
Aemmyjah: Feel free jare. Go and drink your drink with self-control. |
Religion / Re: Correcting Freeze's Heretic Assertion That "Jesus Drank Alcohol" by damosky12(m): 4:14pm On Feb 28 |
Aemmyjah: Na on top this alcohol matter you dey throw all these tirades at him abi something else? Don't mind him my guy, dey shayo dey go. Go on soun with your palmy, Hennessey, even azul if your money reach. Notin do u. |
Religion / Re: Correcting Freeze's Heretic Assertion That "Jesus Drank Alcohol" by damosky12(m): 3:47pm On Feb 28 |
Aemmyjah: You're constantly shifting the goal post because of this your alcohol activism. 🥱 Here comes your fallacy of false equivalence again. The Bible is against greed as sin, not "excessive eating." There's nothing like that in scripture. (MAYBE you should do a search and come back). But the Bible is EXPLICITLY against drunkenness. Come to think of it. You need food to survive. You don't need alcohol to survive. GOD knows. Otherwise, drunkenness won't be a sin (since He didn't give a measure). Again, a devoted Christian won't be looking for a justification for alcoholism. He would stay clear. If alcohol can cause me to be drunken (and drunkenness is a sin), I would leave alcohol altogether. Right? |
Religion / Re: Correcting Freeze's Heretic Assertion That "Jesus Drank Alcohol" by damosky12(m): 2:57pm On Feb 28 |
Ken4Christ: Are we back to square one? Drunkenness isn't "interred" as a sin. It's comprehensively nailed as sin. I would avoid alcohol then. Because it's what culminates drunkenness. That's how a devoted Christian should think. That's the point. It's not about condemning anyone or self-righteousness, but devotion to God. Simple! Why's this raising too much dust? Why should it? Is alcohol another god? |
Religion / Re: Correcting Freeze's Heretic Assertion That "Jesus Drank Alcohol" by damosky12(m): 8:38am On Feb 28 |
Ken4Christ: You seem so fixated on this "not condemning" people who drink. Yet that has no bearing with this discussion. Feels like you're fighting a personal experience or something. Lol. Well, the Bible doesn't even teach condemning any sinner, even fornicators, adulterers, etc. The godly thing is to restore them in love. |
Religion / Re: Correcting Freeze's Heretic Assertion That "Jesus Drank Alcohol" by damosky12(m): 10:50pm On Feb 27 |
Ken4Christ: Church fathers teaching you to stay off alcohol is not bad. Isn't it better to stay away if you can't tell how or when drunkenness may befall you? Except you have a wild appetite, I don't get why anyone would be obsessed about searching out the Bible just to find justification for taking alcohol! Here's the simple point: drunkenness starts with taking alcohol. Is taking alcohol important to your existence? Must you take alcohol to live your regular life? Will you be okay if you stay off alcohol? Do you stand a beter chance to avoid falling into the sin of drunkenness by avoiding alcohol altogether? Answer all these in your mind. It's precise! It all boils down on level of personal devotion to God. Leave story. |
Sports / Re: I Want To Return To Super Eagles – Maduka Okoye by damosky12(m): 6:53pm On Feb 27 |
EreluRoz: How did you manage to turn a topic on football to relationship counsel? 3 Likes 1 Share |
Religion / Re: Correcting Freeze's Heretic Assertion That "Jesus Drank Alcohol" by damosky12(m): 5:38pm On Feb 27 |
Ken4Christ: The Bible is precise about drunkenness. Not "excess eating." Read the original post again. You'd often find the expression "not given to wine" as an ideal Christian conduct. 1 Timothy 3:3. Pay attention. Here's the simple point: drunkenness starts with taking alcohol. Is taking alcohol important to your existence? Must you take alcohol to live your regular life? Will you be okay if you stay off alcohol? Do you stand a beter chance to avoid falling into the sin of drunkenness by avoiding alcohol altogether? Answer all these in your mind. It's precise! It all boils down on level of personal devotion to God. |
Religion / Re: Correcting Freeze's Heretic Assertion That "Jesus Drank Alcohol" by damosky12(m): 5:30pm On Feb 27 |
MaxInDHouse: Fallacy of false equivalence (read up on it). I think its high time govt made logic compulsory in all secondary schools. |
Religion / Re: Correcting Freeze's Heretic Assertion That "Jesus Drank Alcohol" by damosky12(m): 2:33pm On Feb 27 |
Ken4Christ: Fair observation. And you're right. But drunkenness starts with drinking. And there's no measure for what measure makes drunken or what doesn't. Hence, caution is to choose to never be given to it. We must choose to take the truth even if it's against our appetite or craving. |
Religion / Re: Correcting Freeze's Heretic Assertion That "Jesus Drank Alcohol" by damosky12(m): 11:09pm On Feb 26 |
BBIA: You don't sound like someone grounded in any semblance of basic socratic elenchus, talk less of proper philosophy. What do you know in philosophy, please? Apparently, you have no textual proof that I took any of the Bible text out of its original context. If you have any, put it to me. I dare you! Abi na the holy spirit fall on you tell you this one too? Leave jamboree. Learn and move on. God does not serve your appetite. |
Religion / Re: Correcting Freeze's Heretic Assertion That "Jesus Drank Alcohol" by damosky12(m): 10:39pm On Feb 26 |
BBIA: The first thing about you is you're trying too hard to sound smart in an area you have nearly zero clarity. Nothing in the Greek etymology for wine, "oinos," indicated alcohol. There is ancient word for juice from fruits (which is not a modern day invention). The closest to it is what Jesus used, "FRUIT of the vine." He literally used the word drink of this FRUIT... Virtually every ancient resource that mentions "fruit of the vine" projects it as FRUIT. The greek submission there is "gennēma ampellos" which literally indicates "vine fruit." It's so precise! But you're incoherently trying to cook up a point from nothing.
Are you doing a skit here? There has always been non alcoholic wine or "light wine." Who taught you this bradadash?? First, there was such a thing as non fermented grape juice (referred to as 'grape fruit'; which is what Jesus took). See a quote on it from ancient Roman statesman, Cato: "If you wish to have must [grape juice] all year, put grape juice in an amphora and seal the cork with pitch; sink it in a fishpond. After thirty days take it out. It will be grape juice for a whole year" It was called grape juice. In Jesus' words, it's"fruit of the vine. Some call it wine still. But it's unfermented! You spew ignorance with such boldness! Are you just trying to be funny?
Now, this baffles me so much. Me that I am taking a Biblical anti-alcohol stance, I am the one misleading people? You, the freely drink alcohol ambassador, you are the one teaching truth. And this truth is so important to you that you consider it the great commission, "go into the world and drink alcohol." Man, like I said, there's no support for your drunkenness in the Bible. Read the thread again to begin with. If you would be an alcoholic, don't build it on Bible doctrine. There's no place for it in the Bible. |
Religion / Re: Correcting Freeze's Heretic Assertion That "Jesus Drank Alcohol" by damosky12(m): 9:14pm On Feb 26 |
BBIA: I normally wouldn't indulge. But this fallacy that "wine" has to be alcohol is disturbing. Jesus called the wine He drank "fruit of the vine." Matthew 26:29. You know what a fruit of the vine is? The words literally mean fruit from vine (those little grapes). That is grape wine. Not Hennessy. If you want yo drink alcohol, do so with your bold mind. Don't try to justify the indulgence with this fallacy. Please... |
Religion / Re: Correcting Freeze's Heretic Assertion That "Jesus Drank Alcohol" by damosky12(m): 7:17pm On Feb 26 |
BBIA: If you want to drink alcohol, free free to indulge yourself in your drinking and drunkenness. It's either you lack a proper command of English language or you're just rude. I am a "fanatic" (you know what that means??) for explicitly going through the scriptures in response to an error. But you trying to validate your drunkenness or "drinking" out of all is there is the ideal believer? How absurd! |
Food / Re: Picture Of Giant Rat I Killed In My Farm by damosky12(m): 4:18pm On Feb 26 |
Antipob777: I blame nairaland mods for allowing just any junk on the fp. You mean anyone can just go online and lift any picture and just build a lie around it to generate dilly attention. 5 Likes |
Religion / Re: Correcting Freeze's Heretic Assertion That "Jesus Drank Alcohol" by damosky12(m): 12:54pm On Feb 22 |
Expanse2020: What truth? Have you typed any here? |
Religion / Re: Correcting Freeze's Heretic Assertion That "Jesus Drank Alcohol" by damosky12(m): 11:49am On Feb 22 |
epainos: Thank you. Not cussing, really. I could have indulged him/them with reasonable debates. But the robotically dogmatic nuisance they constitute is mind-blowing. Not one you can engage in a sane elenchus. Imagine abruptly mentioning a six year old thread as though it was written yesterday. With no courtesy at all. Weird and sincerely baffling! |
Religion / Re: Correcting Freeze's Heretic Assertion That "Jesus Drank Alcohol" by damosky12(m): 11:45am On Feb 22 |
Expanse2020: Funny thing is that people like you only go about seeking validation with pointless fruitless exchanges online on religious threads. You have no concrete positive impact anywhere in real life. No desirable lifestyle. Just online noise that amounts to nothing. |
Religion / Re: Correcting Freeze's Heretic Assertion That "Jesus Drank Alcohol" by damosky12(m): 9:57am On Feb 22 |
Kobojunkie: Rest. Or keep mentioning if it helps you feel sane. Ps: there's no attack on your person. You are the attack here. Anyone with some reasoning can see that you're being a silly nuisance here! |
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